True definition of breaking through a plateau

[GroinkTropin]

And for the record I do have above average genetics, so it may be that I grow easier than others, but I still believe I am right.

[pellius]

My picture would do what? I would get criticized and bashed to pieces. Tell you what, if you are in the San Jose, CA area, we can train, and you can tell me what you think. Pictures mean shit. My goals are different now than from when I was in my early 20's, people change. I have never lied and have no need to, and you can say whatever you want, it will not change anything.

When I was younger I hit sticking points and came up with creative ways to beat them. At one time that meant drinking pwo shakes made up of whey isolate, Mrs Butterworths syrup (pure sugar no fat) and some creatine/glutamine. I upped the calories and trained harder, including triple drop sets and a lot of tri-sets for quads arms and chest. Always experimenting.

It is clear some of you have deeply rooted beliefs, and I feel this is dangerous. The thinking here seems to be that you can not achieve much without drugs, and that the answer to getting bigger is always more drugs, and I would bet good money the guys whose opinions matter most (pro bodybuilders) would strongly disagree with this thinking. But then again, to you guys they are all huge drug abusers so you likely would never listen.

Your picture will show us what you have achieved and give you credibility. This is bodybuilding and it is very easy to evaluate a person's level. When someone makes a claim that they have crushed plateaus for years you would expect some appreciable level of development. When they speak with the authority that you do, and the claims that you make, it is not unreasonable to ask you to back it up. If you are built like Dennis James we have to conclude that somewhere down the road you did something right. If you are built like Melvin Goodrum then perhaps you should be a bit more humble.
 

[pellius]

And for the record I do have above average genetics, so it may be that I grow easier than others, but I still believe I am right.

Will you be willing to show us how far your above average genetics and plateau crushing training has gotten you?

[GroinkTropin]

Your picture will show us what you have achieved and give you credibility. This is bodybuilding and it is very easy to evaluate a person's level. When someone makes a claim that they have crushed plateaus for years you would expect some appreciable level of development. When they speak with the authority that you do, and the claims that you make, it is not unreasonable to ask you to back it up. If you are built like Dennis James we have to conclude that somewhere down the road you did something right. If you are built like Melvin Goodrum then perhaps you should be a bit more humble.
 

Obviously I do not look like a pro bodybuilder nor goodrum...What the fuck standards are those? I even admitted recently I took 2 months off, and have just gotten back to training. I am 30 years old, and a full time student. What exactly are you expecting?

[Maldoror]

Obviously I do not look like a pro bodybuilder nor goodrum...What the fuck standards are those? I even admitted recently I took 2 months off, and have just gotten back to training. I am 30 years old, and a full time student. What exactly are you expecting?

At 30 years old, you should be in your prime. If you've managed to advance so much, and are so confident and certain of yourself, what do you have to fear?

Surely you must have a mighty physique!!  How else on earth could you be so confident when opinion is unanimously against you, and when every piece of evidence out there contradicts you?
BTW, have you seen Chris Cormier lately? Sure, buddy, steroids build permanent muscle.....

[GroinkTropin]

At 30 years old, you should be in your prime. If you've managed to advance so much, and are so confident and certain of yourself, what do you have to fear?

Surely you must have a mighty physique!!  How else on earth could you be so confident when opinion is unanimously against you, and when every piece of evidence out there contradicts you?
BTW, have you seen Chris Cormier lately? Sure, buddy, steroids build permanent muscle.....

Prime is relative. If I had been training consistently, I would look very different.

How hard is that to understand?

And what opinion is against me? A few random anonymous people online? I could give a shit less.

I try to speak the truth, and if that isn't good enough for you keep listening to the bullshitters and doing whatever it is that you do.

[DK II]

I can only speak from my personal experience, but all the "natural bodybuilders" i run across only got fatter when they tell me that they are "225lbs" now.

They don't even look better, just fatter, if they would go down to contest shape they would be somewhere around 70-75kg, no matter if they started at 100kg with the diet or 85.

Another factor is that the natural guy dieting down from 100kg will NEVER get in shape, because he will lose so much muscle during the diet that he will end up skinnier than the 85kg guy, although he might hold 5kg more muscle before dieting.


I think it is bullshit that steroids build permanent muscle. Not even natural training builds permanent muscle, if you slack with your training or diet the muscle will be gone, albeit the natural muscle will be much harder to get back again.

BUT, all ex-juicers that i have ever met in my life that kept training had a far better body than people who had never touched steroids in their lives (but maybe they were on low dose test, i don't know). 

[Firemuscle]

I can only speak from my personal experience, but all the "natural bodybuilders" i run across only got fatter when they tell me that they are "225lbs" now.

They don't even look better, just fatter, if they would go down to contest shape they would be somewhere around 70-75kg, no matter if they started at 100kg with the diet or 85.

Another factor is that the natural guy dieting down from 100kg will NEVER get in shape, because he will lose so much muscle during the diet that he will end up skinnier than the 85kg guy, although he might hold 5kg more muscle before dieting.


I think it is bullshit that steroids build permanent muscle. Not even natural training builds permanent muscle, if you slack with your training or diet the muscle will be gone, albeit the natural muscle will be much harder to get back again.

BUT, all ex-juicers that i have ever met in my life that kept training had a far better body than people who had never touched steroids in their lives (but maybe they were on low dose test, i don't know). 

 Natural muscle stays.

 I think a natural can keep about 80% of his muscle if he completely stops lifting, as long as he keeps his diet solid.

 I never see natural lifters shrink way down. They always keep like 80% of their size.

[pellius]

Obviously I do not look like a pro bodybuilder nor goodrum...What the fuck standards are those? I even admitted recently I took 2 months off, and have just gotten back to training. I am 30 years old, and a full time student. What exactly are you expecting?

If I constantly gave out financial advice and plans and strategies to achieve great wealth it would not be unreasonable for someone to expect that I have in some fashion achieve some level of financial success.

Ah, but you have been out of training. Not currently in shape. Such is often the case. Perhaps you have something when you were at your pristine shape. Of course, not pro level. We understand that. Just what your years of plateau breaking above average genetics will allow.

Like I said before, proof is in the pudding. And in regard to bodybuilding it is very easy to ascertain.

[dr.chimps]

Blah, blah, blah. Do you ever get tired of all the hot air you spout!? 

[MB]

A mature natural (> 25 yo) will plateau within 2 years of training.  You may have an untapped 5% remaining, but it's safer to think in terms of longevity at that point.  Clean up your diet and enjoy your 20 lb lean muscle advantage over "average" people.

[dj181]

Natural muscle stays.

 I think a natural can keep about 80% of his muscle if he completely stops lifting, as long as he keeps his diet solid.

 I never see natural lifters shrink way down. They always keep like 80% of their size.

From my own personal experience, I can stay at roughly the same body weight once I stop training regularly and consistently, but my body comp will change rather drastically. For example, I will go from a trained state of 160 @ 8% to an untrained state of 160 at 12-14% and this really ends up making quite a big difference in my apperance, even though I'm roughly sitting at the same bodyweight.

[Firemuscle]

From my own personal experience, I can stay at roughly the same body weight once I stop training regularly and consistently, but my body comp will change rather drastically. For example, I will go from a trained state of 160 @ 8% to an untrained state of 160 at 12-14% and this really ends up making quite a big difference in my apperance, even though I'm roughly sitting at the same bodyweight.

 Same here. If I totally quit lifting i'll only lose like 10% of my muscle, but i'll lose sharpness and bf% goes up.

 But the muscle stays, it doesn't go anywhere.

 I only lose my muscle when I start eating a lot less food. Food is the key to keeping the muscle.

 When I got backpacking and i'm hiking all day and only eating like 2 meals per day, that's when I lose muscle.

 If i'm just chilling and eating 4x per day the muscle stays.

[DK II]

From my own personal experience, I can stay at roughly the same body weight once I stop training regularly and consistently, but my body comp will change rather drastically. For example, I will go from a trained state of 160 @ 8% to an untrained state of 160 at 12-14% and this really ends up making quite a big difference in my apperance, even though I'm roughly sitting at the same bodyweight.

Yes, and if you analyze it it means you lost muscle and gained fat.

Natural muscle will go away very quickly, hard to understand for a guy like Blakfag who doesn't have any muscle in the first place.

Same here. If I totally quit lifting i'll lose like 10% of my muscle, but i'l lose sharpness and bf% goes up.

 But the muscle stays, it doesn't go anywhere.

 I only lose my muscle when I start eating a lot less food. Food is the key to keeping the muscle.

Bullshit, you idiot.

If you stay at the same body weight but gain fat, what has happened?? TRAINING is the key to muscle, if you don't train, your body will break down the muscle.
If the muscle is not needed, it will go away, anything else would be idiotic survival-wise.

[Firemuscle]

Yes, and if you analyze it it means you lost muscle and gained fat.

Natural muscle will go away very quickly, hard to understand for a guy like Blakfag who doesn't have any muscle in the first place.

Bullshit, you idiot.

If you stay at the same body weight but gain fat, what has happened?? TRAINING is the key to muscle, if you don't train, your body will break down the muscle.
If the muscle is not needed, it will go away, anything else would be idiotic survival-wise.

 You are one of those guys who got on steroids, so now he downplays the results that can be achieved through natural lifting.

 I've seen it with my own 2 eyes thousands of times. When guys gain a lot of natural size, they keep almost all of it for years and years even if they stop lifting. Real life examples. Not just theories and bro-science.

[DK II]

You are one of those guys who got on steroids, so now he downplays the results that can be achieved through natural lifting.

 I've seen it with my own 2 eyes thousands of times. When guys gain a lot of natural size, they keep almost all of it for years and years even if they stop lifting. Real life examples. Not just theories and bro-science.

I don't downplay anything, you don't even look like you workout.


Working out, with steroids or without for decades will have an impact on the body, but it's total utter bullshit that any of it stays once you stop lifting.

100s of professional athletes and bodybuilders are a good example. People who used to do sports for decades also get in shape much faster after they stopped for a few years.

But was is the same for naturals and steroid users is, once you stop using the muscle, it will go away. If you switch from weightlifting to swimming, cycling or running, you might be able to keep a lot of muscle, but once you stop, it will go away.

[Firemuscle]

I don't downplay anything, you don't even look like you workout.


Working out, with steroids or without for decades will have an impact on the body, but it's total utter bullshit that any of it stays once you stop lifting.

100s of professional athletes and bodybuilders are a good example. People who used to do sports for decades also get in shape much faster after they stopped for a few years.

But was is the same for naturals and steroid users is, once you stop using the muscle, it will go away. If you switch from weightlifting to swimming, cycling or running, you might be able to keep a lot of muscle, but once you stop, it will go away.

 Your theory contradicts what i've seen in real life thousands of times.

[DK II]

Your theory contradicts what i've seen in real life thousands of times.

 

Whatever dude, i don't give a shit what you think anyways.

[Firemuscle]

 

Whatever dude, i don't give a shit what you think anyways.

 

[DK II]

Come on, i mean you don't even look like you work out, you don't go to the gym and you obviously have no clue about training. You have never been in shape in your life.
A few days ago you were whining about how much muscle (that you don't even have) you lost after getting the flu, now you tell me "natural muscle is permanent".

guys like dj181 have been in shape and tell you they lose the muscle, i myself have 10 years of natural training on my back without major breaks. I know a lot about plateaus and natural limits.

You're just a troll talking out of your ass, with no experience at all. Just go to some big sports event one time in your life and look at all the people that were professionals in the 80s and how they look like today.


Oh yeah, meltdown. 

[Firemuscle]

Come on, i mean you don't even look like you work out, you don't go to the gym and you obviously have no clue about training. You have never been in shape in your life.
A few days ago you were whining about how much muscle (that you don't even have) you lost after getting the flu, now you tell me "natural muscle is permanent".

guys like dj181 have been in shape and tell you they lose the muscle, i myself have 10 years of natural training on my back without major breaks. I know a lot about plateaus and natural limits.

You're just a troll talking out of your ass, with no experience at all. Just go to some big sports event one time in your life and look at all the people that were professionals in the 80s and how they look like today.


Oh yeah, meltdown. 

 I lost a lot of weight and muscle when I had tonsillitis and a high fever and barely ate anything for 6 days, that's true.

 But now i've already gained most of it back. I'm eating lots of food and started lifting again. i'll have all the muscle back by next month.

 Natural muscles stays. Lack of food will make you lose it. But if you keep the food intake up and stay healthy you won't lose it.

[dj181]

Yes, and if you analyze it it means you lost muscle and gained fat.

Natural muscle will go away very quickly

Exactly! 160 @ 8%=147 LBM and 160 @ 14%=137 LBM, so that"s a 10 pound decrease in lean body mass which is really quite alot when you think about it, especially when you take into consideration the fact that skin, organs and bones count as lean body mass within the following equation.

[Firemuscle]

 You do lose SOME muscle when you stop lifting. I'm not claiming you keep all of it.

 But I do think most people keep about 80-90% of it.

 Lost of people here talk as though you will lose most of it or almost all of it. I think this is simply bullshit.

 Almost all my American buddies lift weights and the naturals always look about the same size. The only ones i've seen shrink way down are the guys who blew up on gear and then went off.

[DK II]

I lost a lot of weight and muscle when I had tonsillitis and a high fever and barely ate anything for 6 days, that's true.

 But now i've already gained most of it back. I'm eating lots of food and started lifting again. i'll have all the muscle back by next month.

 Natural muscles stays. Lack of food will make you lose it. But if you keep the food intake up and stay healthy you won't lose it.

Maybe you should try and get some muscle in the first place, that would help you understand a little about it.

Exactly! 160 @ 8%=147 LBM and 160 @ 14%=137 LBM, so that"s a 10 pound decrease in lean body mass which is really quite alot when you think about it, especially when you take into consideration the fact that skin, organs and bones count as lean body mass within the following equation.

Yes, and when you diet down from 14% to 8% again, you will lose more muscle in the process.

Natural bodybuilding is really for retards and masochists, if you want a nice beach body i wouldn't bother with steroids, but if you want to impress, there's no way around them.

[DK II]

You do lose SOME muscle when you stop lifting. I'm not claiming you keep all of it.

 But I do think most people keep about 80-90% of it.

 Lost of people here talk as though you will lose most of it or almost all of it. I think this is simply bullshit.

 Almost all my American buddies lift weights and the naturals always look about the same size. The only ones i've seen shrink way down are the guys who blew up on gear and then went off.

Most confuse water gain with muscle gain.

Sure you "lose" a lot of weight, and also the fullness of the muscle, that's just because on steroids your body is able to hold more glycogen and water.

But there's no way to come around the fast that steroids change the way you look forever.