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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Deicide on September 06, 2011, 02:17:04 PM
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There is a good documentary streaming on Netflix about them.
They are rage-aholics like so many right-wingers.
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oh gawd, how fucking sad for those kids. If you believe, as an adult what they believe them, yes they're small minded and need a good whack upside their small noggins. I think they're vial but that's the world we live in.
I DON'T condone, hurting the young kids of westboro church, sadly they've been brainwashed.
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Good for her.
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ok, after watching that little girl sing God hates the world and all the people, I swear, I will fucking rip these parents hearts out if I ever see them in person. WHHHATT THE FUCKKK SICKKKK SHITTT IS THIS? I'm so sick of the vast crap that spews out of all of these shitty nothing VIRAL religions born from the middle east. Pure fucking crap the lot of it. This shit reminds me of the torture someone close to me endured because some delusional christian doctor thought her cancer was a demon and put her through an exorcism ::) fucking psychos, all of you...
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ok, after watching that little girl sing God hates the world and all the people, I swear, I will fucking rip these parents hearts out if I ever see them in person. WHHHATT THE FUCKKK SICKKKK SHITTT IS THIS? I'm so sick of the vast crap that spews out of all of these shitty nothing VIRAL religions born from the middle east. Pure fucking crap the lot of it. This shit reminds me of the torture someone close to me endured because some delusional christian doctor thought her cancer was a demon and put her through an exorcism ::) fucking psychos, all of you...
These Westboro freaks are likely not Christians..they speak of "obeying" God or going to hell. Christianity is not works-based.
And your relative's doctor sound like he was very misguided and possibly delusional.
Your pal,
The psycho
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These Westboro freaks are likely not Christians..they speak of "obeying" God or going to hell. Christianity is not works-based.
And your relative's doctor sound like he was very misguided and possibly delusional.
Your pal,
The psycho
at some point this pshyco we are talking about was a member of another church along with his father and mother. At some point some psycho in your church is going move along with ideas and then form a church and spew stuff close to what he heard but a bit different and then some psycho listening to him will go out with even more whacked shit... on and on and all because christianity is a man made virus. It's programed from the start to spread via the concept that if you do not believe, you are damned... FEAR!!!! It's really terrorism if you think about it!!!! It's fucking garbage to the end and it's EVIL. The very evil you worry about, you help perpetrate. I'll never forgive christianity for the torture it brough on my mother... never... And I'll never allow that crap around any of my family after the shit I've personally witnessed.
We don't need christianity to be good.
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at some point this pshyco we are talking about was a member of another church along with his father and mother. At some point some psycho in your church is going move along with ideas and then form a church and spew stuff close to what he heard but a bit different and then some psycho listening to him will go out with even more whacked shit... on and on and all because christianity is a man made virus. It's programed from the start to spread via the concept that if you do not believe, you are damned... FEAR!!!! It's really terrorism if you think about it!!!! It's fucking garbage to the end and it's EVIL. The very evil you worry about, you help perpetrate. I'll never forgive christianity for the torture it brough on my mother... never... And I'll never allow that crap around any of my family after the shit I've personally witnessed.
We don't need christianity to be good.
X 1000000000000 Remember, is it truly good to treat others with kindness for your own reward (eternal life)?
This is to miss entirely the point of true empathy. Love and kindness contain their own rewards within, they need nothing external.
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haha,OMG that is funny
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I've always held the belief that the nutjobs who use religion as a weapon are the ones who hold a skewed opinion on EVERYTHING and need to be institutionalised as soon as their behaviors are reported ... society doesn't seem to think they are much of a threat .. and tend to see them as just strange and harmless .. people they cross the street to avoid .. but there are many instances of fanatics going batshit crazy and this story is just another to add to the list
There's been murders and rapes committed under the guise of "God's will" ... unless people start involving themselves in thngs they see that are wrong .. these things will never stop
Where are neighbors and shop keepers who see these nutters .. ? I may be gifted in the fact that I live in an area where I know my neighbors and they know me ... if anything was "off" someone would surely be acting upon it
Just look at Elizabeth Smart .. or Jaycee Lee Dugard for instance ... the creeps who took them did not live in a cave and survive off pine nuts gathered in the woods
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at some point this pshyco we are talking about was a member of another church along with his father and mother. At some point some psycho in your church is going move along with ideas and then form a church and spew stuff close to what he heard but a bit different and then some psycho listening to him will go out with even more whacked shit... on and on and all because christianity is a man made virus. It's programed from the start to spread via the concept that if you do not believe, you are damned... FEAR!!!! It's really terrorism if you think about it!!!! It's fucking garbage to the end and it's EVIL. The very evil you worry about, you help perpetrate. I'll never forgive christianity for the torture it brough on my mother... never... And I'll never allow that crap around any of my family after the shit I've personally witnessed.
We don't need christianity to be good.
Seeing as how the message of Christianity is to accept Christ as Savior and help others, no, I don't see it as terrorism.
Of course you are horrified about what happened to your mother, as you should be, but I see nothing in the NT that advocates ignoring/rejecting needed medical attention.
Like you said, this guy was or became warped, but if you read the NT I believe you would see it advocates good and helpfulness. But you think that since it exists and so it's possible that people can twist it to become dangerous that it should be wiped out. I can't agree because it is something entirely different at that point. Just like these Westboro people.
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Where are neighbors and shop keepers who see these nutters .. ? I may be gifted in the fact that I live in an area where I know my neighbors and they know me ... if anything was "off" someone would surely be acting upon it
I think this is the first I've seen of people actually physically doing something in regard to these Westboro people.
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X 1000000000000 Remember, is it truly good to treat others with kindness for your own reward (eternal life)?
This is to miss entirely the point of true empathy. Love and kindness contain their own rewards within, they need nothing external.
Yes, everyone should do good works but Christianity does not base eternal life on good works.
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I think this is the first I've seen of people actually physically doing something in regard to these Westboro people.
I just can't imagine a church like that being able to last within 200 miles of where I live ... the way the violence erupts at the protests they show up at should be enough to charge the parents with neglect by placing their children in that situation :-\
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at some point this pshyco we are talking about was a member of another church along with his father and mother. At some point some psycho in your church is going move along with ideas and then form a church and spew stuff close to what he heard but a bit different and then some psycho listening to him will go out with even more whacked shit... on and on and all because christianity is a man made virus. It's programed from the start to spread via the concept that if you do not believe, you are damned... FEAR!!!! It's really terrorism if you think about it!!!! It's fucking garbage to the end and it's EVIL. The very evil you worry about, you help perpetrate. I'll never forgive christianity for the torture it brough on my mother... never... And I'll never allow that crap around any of my family after the shit I've personally witnessed.
We don't need christianity to be good.
Hugo, you blame Christianity for whatever it is that happened to your mom? You believe the life and teachings of Jesus Christ are an evil virus?
Have you seen what soccer fans do to each other around the world, all that violence? Look at the millions of people that communist dictators have tortured and killed. It has nothing to do with Christianity or any religion for that matter.
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my comments were a bit out of line, sorry. Got pissed watching that vid and had a good meltdown lol I am kind of sick of Christians not taking any responibility for the nuts. Usually they just say, they're not christian and walk the other way. Islam is even worse and doesn't do enough to call out the psychos.
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my comments were a bit out of line, sorry. Got pissed watching that vid and had a good meltdown lol I am kind of sick of Christians not taking any responibility for the nuts. Usually they just say, they're not christian and walk the other way. Islam is even worse and doesn't do enough to call out the psychos.
Anyone is Christian if they say they are and those of this Church are strict adherents of the Bible, whether other Christians agree with them or not, so just saying 'they're not Christian' is essentially saying nothing.
To say that this has nothing to do with Christianity is intellectually dishonest since they cite and quote directly from the Bible, whether you agree with their interpretation or not. Christians cherry pick the Bible all the time and these guys just focus on the harsh stuff whilst ignoring the nice stuff just like nice Christians do the opposite.
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These Westboro freaks are likely not Christians..they speak of "obeying" God or going to hell. Christianity is not works-based.
And your relative's doctor sound like he was very misguided and possibly delusional.
Your pal,
The f***ing psycho
There are divisions of Christianity that believe in works rather than only faith.
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Anyone is Christian if they say they are and those of this Church are strict adherents of the Bible, whether other Christians agree with them or not, so just saying 'they're not Christian' is essentially saying nothing.
To say that this has nothing to do with Christianity is intellectually dishonest since they cite and quote directly from the Bible, whether you agree with their interpretation or not. Christians cherry pick the Bible all the time and these guys just focus on the harsh stuff whilst ignoring the nice stuff just like nice Christians do the opposite.
So if you say you are black, then you are black?
If these people quote from the bible that doesn't necessarily make them/prove them to be Christian. Even Satan quoted from the bible...doesn't make him a Christian.
Christians (in brief) are those that believe they have a need for a Savior and have accepted Jesus Christ (and all that entails, believing He is divine) as such.
These people from what I see in that video believe that Christianity is works-based. That is not scriptural. That is not the Biblical definition of a Christian.
And you believe what they say and do is strictly adhering to what the Bible teaches? I don't think so:
Eph: 4:29-32
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
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So if you say you are black, then you are black?
If these people quote from the bible that doesn't necessarily make them/prove them to be Christian. Even Satan quoted from the bible...doesn't make him a Christian.
Christians (in brief) are those that believe they have a need for a Savior and have accepted Jesus Christ (and all that entails, believing He is divine) as such.
These people from what I see in that video believe that Christianity is works-based. That is not scriptural. That is not the Biblical definition of a Christain.
And you believe what they say and do is strictly adhering to what the Bible teaches? I don't think so:
Eph: 4:29-32
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Great post, Butterbean!
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Great post, Butterbean!
They also said something like (from w8's vid) the time for forgiveness is over....where did they get that? Revelation shows that people will be saved (forgiven) during the tribulation period so how is the time for forgiveness over?
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They also said something like (from w8's vid) the time for forgiveness is over....where did they get that? Revelation shows that people will be saved (forgiven) during the tribulation period so how is the time for forgiveness over?
I think they would argue that they are true Christians and probably would make recourse to scripture to counter your argument.
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So if you say you are black, then you are black?
If these people quote from the bible that doesn't necessarily make them/prove them to be Christian. Even Satan quoted from the bible...doesn't make him a Christian.
Christians (in brief) are those that believe they have a need for a Savior and have accepted Jesus Christ (and all that entails, believing He is divine) as such.
These people from what I see in that video believe that Christianity is works-based. That is not scriptural. That is not the Biblical definition of a Christain.
And you believe what they say and do is strictly adhering to what the Bible teaches? I don't think so:
Eph: 4:29-32
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Completely agree.
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at some point this pshyco we are talking about was a member of another church along with his father and mother. At some point some psycho in your church is going move along with ideas and then form a church and spew stuff close to what he heard but a bit different and then some psycho listening to him will go out with even more whacked shit... on and on and all because christianity is a man made virus. It's programed from the start to spread via the concept that if you do not believe, you are damned... FEAR!!!! It's really terrorism if you think about it!!!! It's fucking garbage to the end and it's EVIL. The very evil you worry about, you help perpetrate. I'll never forgive christianity for the torture it brough on my mother... never... And I'll never allow that crap around any of my family after the shit I've personally witnessed.
We don't need christianity to be good.
Why would did your mother continue to see this doctor if that's what his diagnosis was? Secondly, why did you allow that continue on and not find another doctor who wasn't an idiot? I'm not attacking you or anything, but even as someone who believes in God myself, I wouldn't allow a member of my family to see someone who wasn't going to give them the best possible care.
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I think they would argue that they are true Christians and probably would make recourse to scripture to counter your argument.
I'm sure they would, it doesn't change the fact that they are not of Christ. I've seen quite a lot of footage of these individuals and they are anything but Christians. They go against everything that is of God and of Christ, what they claim is irrelevent, their actions speak ten fold of their true beliefs.
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Why would did your mother continue to see this doctor if that's what his diagnosis was? Secondly, why did you allow that continue on and not find another doctor who wasn't an idiot? I'm not attacking you or anything, but even as someone who believes in God myself, I wouldn't allow a member of my family to see someone who wasn't going to give them the best possible care.
me and my sister were totally against this doctor, but it wasn't legally our call. My father believed in her psycho crap. The exorcism pretty much killed her so there wasn't much point in it after that. I do remember she didn't want to do anything like that so they tricked her letting her think it was for something else and they wouldn't let her leave when she wanted to leave, we know that from phone calls made to my father while this was going on. They did this to her for about half a day while we were trying to figure out where the hell she was. Before she got sick, my father wasn't really a christian. didn't go to church and didn't read the bible or any of that. He was desperate for something when this happened and the good doctor was right there to exploit that.
Me and my sister were also told by the doctor that part of why my mother was dying was because we were not christian and that the only full way to save her was for us to believe. She even gave us bible assignments ::) It got so strange at one point, we had to hide things, recover from the garbage, that the doctor had deemed evil and needed destroyed. She toured the house and started picking out things that were evil and had to go... WTF... One of the things actually being a christian book about marytrs from the 1600s lol... I guess it looked evil... She's not alone either. There are others like her, she learned the crap from a church here, I think born again type of stuff. We're still occationally reminded today that if we don't become Christian, we'll never get to see loved ones we've lost again... sick way of converting people... I don't think this kind of stuff is rare. I think more christians are like this and some like to admit.
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That's some fucked up stuff Hugo. It's a shame you went through that.
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I'm sure they would, it doesn't change the fact that they are not of Christ. I've seen quite a lot of footage of these individuals and they are anything but Christians. They go against everything that is of God and of Christ, what they claim is irrelevent, their actions speak ten fold of their true beliefs.
Cherry picking.
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me and my sister were totally against this doctor, but it wasn't legally our call. My father believed in her psycho crap. The exorcism pretty much killed her so there wasn't much point in it after that. I do remember she didn't want to do anything like that so they tricked her letting her think it was for something else and they wouldn't let her leave when she wanted to leave, we know that from phone calls made to my father while this was going on. They did this to her for about half a day while we were trying to figure out where the hell she was. Before she got sick, my father wasn't really a christian. didn't go to church and didn't read the bible or any of that. He was desperate for something when this happened and the good doctor was right there to exploit that.
Me and my sister were also told by the doctor that part of why my mother was dying was because we were not christian and that the only full way to save her was for us to believe. She even gave us bible assignments ::) It got so strange at one point, we had to hide things, recover from the garbage, that the doctor had deemed evil and needed destroyed. She toured the house and started picking out things that were evil and had to go... WTF... One of the things actually being a christian book about marytrs from the 1600s lol... I guess it looked evil... She's not alone either. There are others like her, she learned the crap from a church here, I think born again type of stuff. We're still occationally reminded today that if we don't become Christian, we'll never get to see loved ones we've lost again... sick way of converting people... I don't think this kind of stuff is rare. I think more christians are like this and some like to admit.
That is terrible Hugo! I'm sorry that you and your family went through all that!
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That is terrible Hugo! I'm sorry that you and your family went through all that!
Are you saying that exorcism is not a proper form of medical treatment?
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Are you saying that exorcism is not a proper form of medical treatment?
I'm saying that is terrible for Hugo and his family, and that I am sorry that happened to him and his family.
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I'm saying that is terrible for Hugo and his family, and that I am sorry that happened to him and his family.
So a question, is exorcism sometimes helpful for medical conditions?
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So a question, is exorcism sometimes helpful for medical conditions?
No
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No
Why do think some Christians believe it is?
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Why do think some Christians believe it is?
Please explain! I wasn't aware that Christians believe exorcism is a cure for any medical condition.
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thanks loco and outby43.
I probably shouldn't have flipped out like I did on page one, I just get pissed all over again when I see people like this hurting innocent people with what they believe.
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Cherry picking.
You mean like how atheists cherry pick scriptures without noting historical or social context in order to prove some wild opinion?
People can cherry pick all they want, it doesn't prove they are right. Fact is these people go against the very core message of Jesus Christ, there's no if's and's or but's about it. The scripture, when it comes to how we are to treat others, not judging, forgiveness etc is very well laid out in black and white, it's not open for interpretation. Anyone who goes against that it has a clear message for, especially those who commit acts in Christ's name that opposes his word.
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You mean like how atheists cherry pick scriptures without noting historical or social context in order to prove some wild opinion?
People can cherry pick all they want, it doesn't prove they are right. Fact is these people go against the very core message of Jesus Christ, there's no if's and's or but's about it. The scripture, when it comes to how we are to treat others, not judging, forgiveness etc is very well laid out in black and white, it's not open for interpretation. Anyone who goes against that it has a clear message for, especially those who commit acts in Christ's name that opposes his word.
but... isn't the premise of Christianity itself pretty horrible? In a nutshell it says "Love me or burn in hell for eternity, your choice"... Yes, you can pretty it up, but the cornerstone of Christianity still remains "Either believe in me and worship me or spend eternity in hell"
Ag
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Yes, everyone should do good works but Christianity does not base eternal life on good works.
No, it's even sadder... it bases eternal life on whether or not you believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah and died for your sins.
Basically saying that God and his Son Jesus are so shallow that who cares if you are a GREAT human being, if you don't acknowledge them, you're going to hell.
Yeah, that's what an omnipotent deity would do.
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No, it's even sadder... it bases eternal life on whether or not you believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah and died for your sins.
Basically saying that God and his Son Jesus are so shallow that who cares if you are a GREAT human being, if you don't acknowledge them, you're going to hell.
Yeah, that's what an omnipotent deity would do.
sooooo Westboro isn't all that far off...
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sooooo Westboro isn't all that far off...
Oh, they are off... fucking off their rockers insane.
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Oh, they are off... fucking off their rockers insane.
Any more insane that people who bring rain coats with them to the town square every Sunday to pray from rain in a drought? Quite common around here.. I figure at least a million Texans are praying for rain right now..have been for months...so there MUST be a million and one praying against it or we wouldn't be drying up here
Ag
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Any more insane that people who bring rain coats with them to the town square every Sunday to pray from rain in a drought? Quite common around here.. I figure at least a million Texans are praying for rain right now..have been for months...so there MUST be a million and one praying against it or we wouldn't be drying up here
Ag
More insane? Probably not... Right on the same level though.
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More insane? Probably not... Right on the same level though.
evenly insane... :D
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but... isn't the premise of Christianity itself pretty horrible? In a nutshell it says "Love me or burn in hell for eternity, your choice"... Yes, you can pretty it up, but the cornerstone of Christianity still remains "Either believe in me and worship me or spend eternity in hell"
Ag
I can't say for sure that is indeed God's plan for people who do not choose to follow him in their lives on earth. I can only say, that in all his wisdom and love for us that he knows what he's doing and to assume that I can bring him down to my level of morality is absurd at the very least.
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I can't say for sure that is indeed God's plan for people who do not choose to follow him in their lives on earth. I can only say, that in all his wisdom and love for us that he knows what he's doing and to assume that I can bring him down to my level of morality is absurd at the very least.
If we were made in his image, why would you think that doesn't equate to mental capacity?
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Just watched Fall from Grace on Netflix. Those people are nuts. I cannot believe nobody has killed them yet.
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If we were made in his image, why would you think that doesn't equate to mental capacity?
I don't know of any man or woman to ever have the mental capacity to create a universe as diverse and complex as ours. My view of this world is extremely limited, it's very narrow, it's a fraction of a blink of an eye on the time line of things and to think that I have the mental capacity of God, who created the entire universe, would be quite egotistical.
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but... isn't the premise of Christianity itself pretty horrible? In a nutshell it says "Love me or burn in hell for eternity, your choice"... Yes, you can pretty it up, but the cornerstone of Christianity still remains "Either believe in me and worship me or spend eternity in hell"
Ag
Your last sentence could be restated as believe in Christ as Savior or spend eternity separated from Him. Isn't that your choice? To not spend eternity with Him? Would you rather not have the choice?
No, it's even sadder... it bases eternal life on whether or not you believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah and died for your sins.
Why does that seem sad to you ???
Basically saying that God and his Son Jesus are so shallow that who cares if you are a GREAT human being, if you don't acknowledge them, you're going to hell.
How many Great human beings do you know? And if you do believe you know some, what makes them Great in your opinion? If they are secretly stealing, beating their spouse or into child porn, would you still consider them Great? Do you know what other people are doing/thinking/etc 24/7?
Yeah, that's what an omnipotent deity would do.
tu, can you give your view of what you would find acceptable for an omnipotent deity?
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but... isn't the premise of Christianity itself pretty horrible? In a nutshell it says "Love me or burn in hell for eternity, your choice"... Yes, you can pretty it up, but the cornerstone of Christianity still remains "Either believe in me and worship me or spend eternity in hell"
Ag
Agnostic007, where did you get those quotes from? I never pegged you for someone to spread slander and misinformation.
You are either mistaken or pompously lying. I've told you many times that according to the Bible, people don't go to hell for rejecting Jesus Christ's gift of forgiveness and eternal life. People go to hell to pay for their own many sins. It doesn't matter how good a person is, they still have many sins. Jesus Christ, by his own words, is the only way to forgiveness of sins and the only way to Heaven.
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Agnostic007, where did you get those quotes from? I never pegged you for someone to spread slander and misinformation.
You are either mistaken or pompously lying. I've told you many times that according to the Bible, people don't go to hell for rejecting Jesus Christ's gift of forgiveness and eternal life. People go to hell to pay for their own many sins. It doesn't matter how good a person is, they still have many sins. Jesus Christ, by his own words, is the only way to forgiveness of sins and the only way to Heaven.
Still need the training wheels, huh? I feel for ya.
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Your last sentence could be restated as believe in Christ as Savior or spend eternity separated from Him. Isn't that your choice? To not spend eternity with Him? Would you rather not have the choice?
Why does that seem sad to you ???
How many Great human beings do you know? And if you do believe you know some, what makes them Great in your opinion? If they are secretly stealing, beating their spouse or into child porn, would you still consider them Great? Do you know what other people are doing/thinking/etc 24/7?
tu, can you give your view of what you would find acceptable for an omnipotent deity?
Mother Theresa or anyone who was similar to her in actions and deeds would be a great person.
However, forget that... Why would you use an extreme of beating their spouse or be into child porn? Those are very small percentages of ANY society... Christian or otherwise.
So, if you treat your fellow man well on a day to day basis, yet you don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah and died for your sins, you get to go to Hell.
Yes... That makes a lot of sense.
If there is a God, I don't believe he follows that philosophy at all.
I am quite certain that an omnipotent deity wouldn't get "jealous" or be "vengeful". There is absolutely no need.
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Agnostic007, where did you get those quotes from? I never pegged you for someone to spread slander and misinformation.
You are either mistaken or pompously lying. I've told you many times that according to the Bible, people don't go to hell for rejecting Jesus Christ's gift of forgiveness and eternal life. People go to hell to pay for their own many sins. It doesn't matter how good a person is, they still have many sins. Jesus Christ, by his own words, is the only way to forgiveness of sins and the only way to Heaven.
Loco, thank you for pegging me that way. I'd like to think it's true. I try to call a duck a duck.
So you are saying that I am wrong. People DON'T go to hell for failing to believe or worship in Jesus or the biblical God, they go to hell to pay for their many sins..
I could argue that premise with bible qoutes but I'll address another angle, an angle of fairness.
Let's say I'm born to Buddhist parents in China. I've had little interaction with Christians though I've heard about the bible and Jesus. I'm a good person who raises a family, donates my time for local charities and am known for my honesty, integrity, character and generosity.
At 38 yrs old I get hit by a taxi driver and killed. According to MOST interpretations of the new testament I would spend eternity in hell. So for a life that lasted 38 yrs, arguably a drop in the ocean compared to eternity, I am punished for an eternity with no chance of redemption.
You can use that same scenario for babies born to Muslims, Jews, Sikhs etc etc.
How is that fair?
Ag
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Loco, thank you for pegging me that way. I'd like to think it's true. I try to call a duck a duck.
So you are saying that I am wrong. People DON'T go to hell for failing to believe or worship in Jesus or the biblical God, they go to hell to pay for their many sins..
I could argue that premise with bible qoutes but I'll address another angle, an angle of fairness.
Let's say I'm born to Buddhist parents in China. I've had little interaction with Christians though I've heard about the bible and Jesus. I'm a good person who raises a family, donates my time for local charities and am known for my honesty, integrity, character and generosity.
At 38 yrs old I get hit by a taxi driver and killed. According to MOST interpretations of the new testament I would spend eternity in hell. So for a life that lasted 38 yrs, arguably a drop in the ocean compared to eternity, I am punished for an eternity with no chance of redemption.
You can use that same scenario for babies born to Muslims, Jews, Sikhs etc etc.
How is that fair?
Ag
Don't worry... Loco believes the bible to be some infallible source of information.
Let's look at Sodom and Gomorrah... Lot and his 2 daughters were saved by God from destruction, just so his daughters can get him drunk and commit incest and have children??!?!?!
Sounds like God was owned.
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Loco, thank you for pegging me that way. I'd like to think it's true. I try to call a duck a duck.
So you are saying that I am wrong. People DON'T go to hell for failing to believe or worship in Jesus or the biblical God, they go to hell to pay for their many sins..
I could argue that premise with bible qoutes but I'll address another angle, an angle of fairness.
Let's say I'm born to Buddhist parents in China. I've had little interaction with Christians though I've heard about the bible and Jesus. I'm a good person who raises a family, donates my time for local charities and am known for my honesty, integrity, character and generosity.
At 38 yrs old I get hit by a taxi driver and killed. According to MOST interpretations of the new testament I would spend eternity in hell. So for a life that lasted 38 yrs, arguably a drop in the ocean compared to eternity, I am punished for an eternity with no chance of redemption.
You can use that same scenario for babies born to Muslims, Jews, Sikhs etc etc.
How is that fair?
Ag
Life isn't fair.
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Life isn't fair.
The biblical God is alleged to be "just"..
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The biblical God is alleged to be "just"..
Why would anyone accept God to be "unfair" or "unjust"?
But they do, don't they.
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Any time a theist is defeated in logic, which happens with incredible frequency, they claim "God works in mysterious ways".
There's no point in debating a person who has no intellectual integrity and will always reach for the failsafe, but it's still fun.
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The biblical God is alleged to be "just"..
The Biblical god likely does not exist and is a piece of literary fiction, it does not matter whether he is just or not.
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The Biblical god likely does not exist and is a piece of literary fiction, it does not matter whether he is just or not.
yes, but for the sake of argument...
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yes, but for the sake of argument...
Sure, but I gave up (for the most part) arguing with theists about this stuff, you can't win and people will believe what they want to believe, look at your brother.
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Sure, but I gave up (for the most part) arguing with theists about this stuff, you can't win and people will believe what they want to believe, look at your brother.
yeah, I'm really not in the "change their minds" group. I'm more in the "Leave me alone about what I believe and don't make me endure your religious ceremonies when I'm attending govt sponsored events.
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yeah, I'm really not in the "change their minds" group. I'm more in the "Leave me alone about what I believe and don't make me endure your religious ceremonies when I'm attending govt sponsored events.
I want to be left alone and even put a nice sign on my front porch that says No Soliciting, No Religious visits. Well, every once in a while I find my sign ripped of the chain and on the ground. ::)
I had to do something because they were getting out of hand and I work nights and was sick of them waking me up. They were coming like 2 times a week because my wife used to be a Jehovah's witness and she told them that. Now it's their mission to save her.
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me and my sister were totally against this doctor, but it wasn't legally our call. My father believed in her psycho crap. The exorcism pretty much killed her so there wasn't much point in it after that. I do remember she didn't want to do anything like that so they tricked her letting her think it was for something else and they wouldn't let her leave when she wanted to leave, we know that from phone calls made to my father while this was going on. They did this to her for about half a day while we were trying to figure out where the hell she was. Before she got sick, my father wasn't really a christian. didn't go to church and didn't read the bible or any of that. He was desperate for something when this happened and the good doctor was right there to exploit that.
Me and my sister were also told by the doctor that part of why my mother was dying was because we were not christian and that the only full way to save her was for us to believe. She even gave us bible assignments ::) It got so strange at one point, we had to hide things, recover from the garbage, that the doctor had deemed evil and needed destroyed. She toured the house and started picking out things that were evil and had to go... WTF... One of the things actually being a christian book about marytrs from the 1600s lol... I guess it looked evil... She's not alone either. There are others like her, she learned the crap from a church here, I think born again type of stuff. We're still occationally reminded today that if we don't become Christian, we'll never get to see loved ones we've lost again... sick way of converting people... I don't think this kind of stuff is rare. I think more christians are like this and some like to admit.
Hugo, my deepest regrets to you for having to go through something like that. I can't even imagine or pretend to know how you feel after having dealt with something so horrible.
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Mother Theresa or anyone who was similar to her in actions and deeds would be a great person.
However, forget that... Why would you use an extreme of beating their spouse or be into child porn? Those are very small percentages of ANY society... Christian or otherwise.
So, if you treat your fellow man well on a day to day basis, yet you don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah and died for your sins, you get to go to Hell.
Yes... That makes a lot of sense.
If there is a God, I don't believe he follows that philosophy at all.
I am quite certain that an omnipotent deity wouldn't get "jealous" or be "vengeful". There is absolutely no need.
I don't want to put words in your mouth so I may be wrong but are you saying that if there were a heaven that the mainly "Great human beings" should be allowed entry in your opinion or everyone who has ever lived or..?
And to not go to extremes how about someone that shoplifted once or cheated on a test or told lies as per your def. are they considered "Great human beings?" Or is it that if they were more good than bad or ?
I'm trying to get a take on what you would consider acceptable for what type of "God" you would accept.
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I'm more in the "Leave me alone about what I believe
I find it interesting that you chose the username you did and that you post a lot on the Relig. Board but in any case I'm glad you do! :)
I want to be left alone and even put a nice sign on my front porch that says No Soliciting, No Religious visits. Well, every once in a while I find my sign ripped of the chain and on the ground. ::)
I had to do something because they were getting out of hand and I work nights and was sick of them waking me up. They were coming like 2 times a week because my wife used to be a Jehovah's witness and she told them that. Now it's their mission to save her.
Our Jehovah's witnesses come too early on Saturdays or I would like to talk to them.
Does your wife ever talk to them? There were some in my brothers neighborhood one time and I tried to get the younger one to email me but I think the older one must have put the kibash on it.
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I find it interesting that you chose the username you did and that you post a lot on the Relig. Board but in any case I'm glad you do! :)
Our Jehovah's witnesses come too early on Saturdays or I would like to talk to them.
Does your wife ever talk to them? There were some in my brothers neighborhood one time and I tried to get the younger one to email me but I think the older one must have put the kibash on it.
I was on Getbig for awhile before I ever ventured to the religious part of the board. I choose the name in silent protest of living in Texas where it's assumed you believe in Jesus and the biblical God and agree with all the ceremony and trappings of the belief.
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I find it interesting that you chose the username you did and that you post a lot on the Relig. Board but in any case I'm glad you do! :)
Our Jehovah's witnesses come too early on Saturdays or I would like to talk to them.
Does your wife ever talk to them? There were some in my brothers neighborhood one time and I tried to get the younger one to email me but I think the older one must have put the kibash on it.
I talked to a JW that is pretty high up the chain. He said they have a map that identifies every home in the community. They know who is interested and who doesn't want to be bothered. If you accept the material they will come back. If you say "no" they leave you alone for a period of time, then come back in case there is a new resident.
If you are a cowering chicken like my daughter, you take the material and then hide when they repeatedly come back to the house, until your mommy finally tells them you're not interested. ::)
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I don't want to put words in your mouth so I may be wrong but are you saying that if there were a heaven that the mainly "Great human beings" should be allowed entry in your opinion or everyone who has ever lived or..?
And to not go to extremes how about someone that shoplifted once or cheated on a test or told lies as per your def. are they considered "Great human beings?" Or is it that if they were more good than bad or ?
I'm trying to get a take on what you would consider acceptable for what type of "God" you would accept.
I feel that you are going to extremes... If you're a good person and you treat your man well on a day to day basis, then I think you should be allowed "into the kingdom of heaven", but of course, that's not how it works.
To be honest, the Sihk God is probably the one I can understand the most.
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To be honest, the Sihk God is probably the one I can understand the most.
Thanks. I found a few links. Is there one you would suggest that you like I could look at?
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To be honest, the Sihk God is probably the one I can understand the most.
Sihk warriors are cool! :)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQE0hc7izRKAIeZ_q8D5Bkftm3La3SUS42NxQRAMTixbFGS1j8IJaTvbBHmsQ)
(http://www2.2space.net/images/upl_newsImage/1255886405.jpg)
(http://www.sikhnet.com/files/news/2009/January/Gatka-1.jpg)
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Does the middle pic guy w/the large turbin have a special title?
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Does the middle pic guy w/the large turbin have a special title?
"Weapons Master." All of his many weapons are in his turban. ;D
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ok, seriously.... Let's say there is in reality only one god and one path as butterbean undersands there to be and thus as is said, only one way to enternal life.
Now lets say we have this silly stupid dude who has gone about his merry way in life doing the best he can and treating others along the way in a fair and reasonable way all along... actually there are people like that! He's done his best to live his life in a fashion that doesn't take advantage of others, but he has never been the religious type. according to most christian doctrine, this man is going to hell despite what life he has led if he does not accept Jesus as his freaking savior ::) Sounds like bollocks to me...
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ok, seriously.... Let's say there is in reality only one god and one path as butterbean undersands there to be and thus as is said, only one way to enternal life.
Now lets say we have this silly stupid dude who has gone about his merry way in life doing the best he can and treating others along the way in a fair and reasonable way all along... actually there are people like that! He's done his best to live his life in a fashion that doesn't take advantage of others, but he has never been the religious type. according to most christian doctrine, this man is going to hell despite what life he has led if he does not accept Jesus as his freaking savior ::) Sounds like bollocks to me...
That is part of Christian exceptionalism and every time you hear that they have pity for nonbelievers or pary for them it is really just arrogance disguised as piety and means that we are the 'chosen ones' and you are not, not to mention it makes them feel better thinking they are special when others are not.
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That is part of Christian exceptionalism and every time you hear that they have pity for nonbelievers or pary for them it is really just arrogance disguised as piety and means that we are the 'chosen ones' and you are not, not to mention it makes them feel better thinking they are special when others are not.
If this is true, why would we devote any time/money/etc at all to spreading the gospel?
Not everyone looks down on you. Some of us love you and want what we believe is the best for you!
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If this is true, why would we devote any time/money/etc at all to spreading the gospel?
Not everyone looks down on you. Some of us love you and want what we believe is the best for you!
Another good question. I'm sure partly because you care, but I wonder if it could also be attributed to "If I get him/her to share my belief, or agree with my belief, it validates my belief, because deep down, when many christians really think about their belief, they probably have doubts.
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Another good question. I'm sure partly because you care, but I wonder if it could also be attributed to "If I get him/her to share my belief, or agree with my belief, it validates my belief, because deep down, when many christians really think about their belief, they probably have doubts.
Never considered the "validation" theory. That does not apply to me and I wouldn't think it would apply to others but of course I can't speak for others on that.
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ok, seriously.... Let's say there is in reality only one god and one path as butterbean undersands there to be and thus as is said, only one way to enternal life.
Now lets say we have this silly stupid dude who has gone about his merry way in life doing the best he can and treating others along the way in a fair and reasonable way all along... actually there are people like that! He's done his best to live his life in a fashion that doesn't take advantage of others, but he has never been the religious type. according to most christian doctrine, this man is going to hell despite what life he has led if he does not accept Jesus as his freaking savior ::) Sounds like bollocks to me...
The Christian faith, according to the Bible teaches that such a person will be given a chance, one way or another, to receive the the good news about Jesus Christ, an opportunity to be forgiven of his/her sins.
Cornelius
Acts 10:1-6, 34-36
New International Version (NIV)
1 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment.
2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly.
3 One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, Cornelius!
4 Cornelius stared at him in fear. What is it, Lord? he asked. The angel answered, Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God.
5 Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter.
6 He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.
34 Then Peter began to speak: I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism
35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.
36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.
The Ethiopian
Acts 8:26-31, 34-35
26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, Go south to the roadthe desert roadthat goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.
27 So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of the Kandake (which means queen of the Ethiopians). This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship,
28 and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the Book of Isaiah the prophet.
29 The Spirit told Philip, Go to that chariot and stay near it.
30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. Do you understand what you are reading? Philip asked.
31 How can I, he said, unless someone explains it to me? So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
34 The eunuch asked Philip, Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?
35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
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Another good question. I'm sure partly because you care, but I wonder if it could also be attributed to "If I get him/her to share my belief, or agree with my belief, it validates my belief, because deep down, when many christians really think about their belief, they probably have doubts.
Agreed.
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Another good question. I'm sure partly because you care, but I wonder if it could also be attributed to "If I get him/her to share my belief, or agree with my belief, it validates my belief, because deep down, when many christians really think about their belief, they probably have doubts.
No.
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No.
I know right? God forbid they should admit they have doubts about it..
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I know right? God forbid they should admit they have doubts about it..
Doubts? Sometimes, yes. Doing all they can to spread the good news of Jesus Christ to somehow validate their faith? No.
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Doubts? Sometimes, yes. Doing all they can to spread the good news of Jesus Christ to somehow validate their faith? No.
Ok, I'm clear thanks
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Ok, I'm clear thanks
You are welcome!
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Sihk warriors are cool! :)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQE0hc7izRKAIeZ_q8D5Bkftm3La3SUS42NxQRAMTixbFGS1j8IJaTvbBHmsQ)
(http://www2.2space.net/images/upl_newsImage/1255886405.jpg)
(http://www.sikhnet.com/files/news/2009/January/Gatka-1.jpg)
One-hundred-year-old Singh crosses the finish line in a 100 meter race for centenarians in Toronto, Thursday Oct. 13, 2011
(http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/DzFOc_BFf9fxJLXXXlcvxQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD02MzA7cT04NTt3PTM4Ng--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/b52dfdc707487a17fb0e6a70670003b3.jpg)
Centenarian Fauja Singh, originally from India now living in London, England, is competing in Toronto's Waterfront Marathon on Sunday.
http://news.yahoo.com/100-old-marathoner-finishes-race-235239203.html
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Seeing as how the message of Christianity is to accept Christ as Savior and help others, no, I don't see it as terrorism.
Of course you are horrified about what happened to your mother, as you should be, but I see nothing in the NT that advocates ignoring/rejecting needed medical attention.
Like you said, this guy was or became warped, but if you read the NT I believe you would see it advocates good and helpfulness. But you think that since it exists and so it's possible that people can twist it to become dangerous that it should be wiped out. I can't agree because it is something entirely different at that point. Just like these Westboro people.
Isn't the "choice" basically to accept JC as your saviour or face eternity in hell ?