Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: suckmymuscle on November 25, 2011, 11:30:33 PM
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He has been eating nothing but fruit for 6 years. And yet, he has so much energy that he can run 4 marathons in a week, and his complexion glows with vitality. His blood work shows outstanding health: extremely low LDL cholesterol and high HDL cholesterol, extremely low levels of uric acid, amonia and creatinine in urine and the most amazing thing of all is that, even though he gets 90% of his calories from carbohydrates, he has extremely low levels of insulin. Fruit is rich in fructose, a monosaccharide that dramatically increases the body's ability to use glucose effectively. And yes, he is very skinny, but that is not due to the fruitarian diet but due to the fact that he runs 20 miles a day, every day. Meat-eating marathoners look exactly like him.
I do not recommend this diet. Fruits are too low in EFAs and especially Calcium, Phosphorus, Iron and Zinc, and the little it does has very low bioavailability compared to the chelated minerals in animal proteins. But still, this diet is very good for the liver, kidneys, heart and vascular systems.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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He calls himself "Fruitarian, but he mentions "It's all about raw fruits and vegetables". Isn't he just a vegan and not a fruitarian?
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hgh 10 iu a day,,,, slin every other meal,,,,trenna 100 2x a week ;D ;D
gh15 what is his daily gh / insulin dosage
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I'm not sure he gets his daily 1.5 grams of protein per lbs of bodyweight.... :D
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thats pretty impressive i might try eating more whole fruit
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Been eating 6-8 servings of raw fruit and veggies for the last 15 years. That's why I look decades younger than my peers.
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Fruity thread reported :(
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It's about time this started getting some attention. You know, your fellow GBer Viking eats 90% fruits and vegetables, 10% raw meat.
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He has been eating nothing but fruit for 6 years. And yet, he has so much energy that he can run 4 marathons in a week, and his complexion glows with vitality. His blood work shows outstanding health: extremely low LDL cholesterol and high HDL cholesterol, extremely low levels of uric acid, amonia and creatinine in urine and the most amazing thing of all is that, even though he gets 90% of his calories from carbohydrates, he has extremely low levels of insulin. Fruit is rich in fructose, a monosaccharide that dramatically increases the body's ability to use glucose effectively. And yes, he is very skinny, but that is not due to the fruitarian diet but due to the fact that he runs 20 miles a day, every day. Meat-eating marathoners look exactly like him.
I do not recommend this diet. Fruits are too low in EFAs and especially Calcium, Phosphorus, Iron and Zinc, and the little it does has very low bioavailability compared to the chelated minerals in animal proteins. But still, this diet is very good for the liver, kidneys, heart and vascular systems.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
pretty sure fructose is a metabolic poison, in fact it is the worst monosaccharide one can consume.
it induces insulin resistence, metabolic syndrome, obesity etc...
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thought this was kai greenes new character for his next
strip showposing routine.
conan the frutarian
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pretty sure fructose is a metabolic poison, in fact it is the worst monosaccharide one can consume.
it induces insulin resistence, metabolic syndrome, obesity etc...
All the studies that showed increased plasma levels of triglycerides from fructose were seen on those consuming massive amounts of high-fructose corn syrup in the form of soda and processed goods. Also, it has never been conclusively shown on humans. Most of the studies were done on rhesus monkeys and rats, which are metabolically a lot less efficient in processing fructose than humans. For whatever reasons, the human metabolism is extremely efficient in processing monosaccharides.
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/jump~jumptype=banner~frompagename=content~frommainurifile=content~fromdb=all~fromtitle=~fromvnxs=~cons=?dropin=dxdoiorg_101080_104083982010512990&to_url=http%3a%2f%2fdx%2edoi%2eorg%2f10%2e1080%2f10408398%2e2010%2e512990 (http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/jump~jumptype=banner~frompagename=content~frommainurifile=content~fromdb=all~fromtitle=~fromvnxs=~cons=?dropin=dxdoiorg_101080_104083982010512990&to_url=http%3a%2f%2fdx%2edoi%2eorg%2f10%2e1080%2f10408398%2e2010%2e512990)
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/jump~jumptype=banner~frompagename=content~frommainurifile=content~fromdb=all~fromtitle=~fromvnxs=~cons=?dropin=dxdoiorg_101080_10408390903461426&to_url=http%3a%2f%2fdx%2edoi%2eorg%2f10%2e1080%2f10408390903461426 (http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/jump~jumptype=banner~frompagename=content~frommainurifile=content~fromdb=all~fromtitle=~fromvnxs=~cons=?dropin=dxdoiorg_101080_10408390903461426&to_url=http%3a%2f%2fdx%2edoi%2eorg%2f10%2e1080%2f10408390903461426)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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He calls himself "Fruitarian, but he mentions "It's all about raw fruits and vegetables". Isn't he just a vegan and not a fruitarian?
no, he is just gay.
Gayer than holding an all night vigil for George Michael.
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this moron sure knows a lot about "fruits".
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pretty sure fructose is a metabolic poison, in fact it is the worst monosaccharide one can consume.
it induces insulin resistence, metabolic syndrome, obesity etc...
so fruit is poison lol idiot
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A guy I went to college with who was a bber lectured me about eating meat. Everytime I saw him, he was eating fruit---cantelope, honeydew, grapes, apples, oranges, melon.
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wonder how he is able to hold on to all that extreme amount of muscle he is carrying....?? ::)
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wonder how he is able to hold on to all that extreme amount of muscle he is carrying....??
You are really dumb. He runs 20 miles a day, the equivalent of 4 marathons a week. Ever seen what meat-eating marathoners look like? Funny how lowland gorillas can get 95% of all their calories from fruit and yet weight 400 lbs and are strong enough to remove a man's spine right through the throat.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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wonder how he is able to hold on to all that extreme amount of muscle he is carrying....?? ::)
Well, this dude was about 5'5-5'6 and 185, we called him T or Supermuslim...he was lean, but not stupidly huge or lean. Maybe he was on...he had to be taking protein shakes...he was one of those eclectic type dudes.
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Well, this dude was about 5'5-5'6 and 185, we called him T or Supermuslim...he was lean, but not stupidly huge or lean. Maybe he was on...he had to be taking protein shakes...he was one of those eclectic type dudes.
For the last fucking time...this guy being so lean has nothing do with getting low protein. Read my previous post.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Eating fruit is good - gives a lot of energy.
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For the last fucking time...this guy being so lean has nothing do with getting low protein. Read my previous post.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Im not talking about your dude, I was responding to another post, whch I think was responding to me.
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Seems like a cool dude.
Body like a Jew in the holocaust tho
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so fruit is poison lol idiot
No. But if you are going to consume a lot of fruit, make sure you know where its coming from(organic is best). The chemicals that are being over-sprayed on fruits and veggies might lead to some complications down the road. Just washing the fruit isn't enough.
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wow a rich skinny fuck that runs all day and eat fruits impresses getbiggers.
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Just fruit?? Boring!!!!!
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People who claim that fructose causes artherosclerosis and insulin resistence have no idea how carbohydrate metabolism works. They extrapolate the results of extremely high doses of fructose given to mice, who are omniverous rodents with poor carbohydrate processing ability, to humans and think that eating apples will give you diabetes and artherosclerosis. Subjects on high fructose diets who show fat deposition in the liver and diabetes are no different from any other people who eat tons of calories from protein, fat or other monosaccharides and polysaccharides. In fact fructose increases carbohydrate processing efficiency by signaling the activation of glucokinase. To prove this, besides the two studies I posted that show no link between fructose and metabolic syndrome in humans, here is an explanation about how monosaccharide metabolism works in humans. Unlike 99.9% of everything that people write about nutrition, this is from a hardcore physiology textbook. Scientific fact and not fiction:
http://www.medbio.info/Horn/Time%201-2/carbohydrate_metabolism.htm (http://www.medbio.info/Horn/Time%201-2/carbohydrate_metabolism.htm)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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The two double-blind, placebo-controlled studies showing no relation between fructose consumption and increased plasma triglycerides and hyperglycemia on humans, assumptions that were made incorrectly from measuring the plasma triglyceride and glucose levels of mice given extremely high levels of fructose:
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/jump~jumptype=banner~frompagename=content~frommainurifile=content~fromdb=all~fromtitle=~fromvnxs=~cons=?dropin=dxdoiorg_101080_104083982010512990&to_url=http%3a%2f%2fdx%2edoi%2eorg%2f10%2e1080%2f10408398%2e2010%2e512990 (http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/jump~jumptype=banner~frompagename=content~frommainurifile=content~fromdb=all~fromtitle=~fromvnxs=~cons=?dropin=dxdoiorg_101080_104083982010512990&to_url=http%3a%2f%2fdx%2edoi%2eorg%2f10%2e1080%2f10408398%2e2010%2e512990)
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/jump~jumptype=banner~frompagename=content~frommainurifile=content~fromdb=all~fromtitle=~fromvnxs=~cons=?dropin=dxdoiorg_101080_10408390903461426&to_url=http%3a%2f%2fdx%2edoi%2eorg%2f10%2e1080%2f10408390903461426 (http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/jump~jumptype=banner~frompagename=content~frommainurifile=content~fromdb=all~fromtitle=~fromvnxs=~cons=?dropin=dxdoiorg_101080_10408390903461426&to_url=http%3a%2f%2fdx%2edoi%2eorg%2f10%2e1080%2f10408390903461426)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Thanks for posting this thread, this dude is cool, I have watched some more of his vids on his youtube channel - Great attitude
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All the studies that showed increased plasma levels of triglycerides from fructose were seen on those consuming massive amounts of high-fructose corn syrup in the form of soda and processed goods. Also, it has never been conclusively shown on humans. Most of the studies were done on rhesus monkeys and rats, which are metabolically a lot less efficient in processing fructose than humans. For whatever reasons, the human metabolism is extremely efficient in processing monosaccharides.
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/jump~jumptype=banner~frompagename=content~frommainurifile=content~fromdb=all~fromtitle=~fromvnxs=~cons=?dropin=dxdoiorg_101080_104083982010512990&to_url=http%3a%2f%2fdx%2edoi%2eorg%2f10%2e1080%2f10408398%2e2010%2e512990 (http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/jump~jumptype=banner~frompagename=content~frommainurifile=content~fromdb=all~fromtitle=~fromvnxs=~cons=?dropin=dxdoiorg_101080_104083982010512990&to_url=http%3a%2f%2fdx%2edoi%2eorg%2f10%2e1080%2f10408398%2e2010%2e512990)
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/jump~jumptype=banner~frompagename=content~frommainurifile=content~fromdb=all~fromtitle=~fromvnxs=~cons=?dropin=dxdoiorg_101080_10408390903461426&to_url=http%3a%2f%2fdx%2edoi%2eorg%2f10%2e1080%2f10408390903461426 (http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/jump~jumptype=banner~frompagename=content~frommainurifile=content~fromdb=all~fromtitle=~fromvnxs=~cons=?dropin=dxdoiorg_101080_10408390903461426&to_url=http%3a%2f%2fdx%2edoi%2eorg%2f10%2e1080%2f10408390903461426)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
high fructose corn syrup is fructose, it is simply fructose mixed with another sugar mostly glucose, so the data still apply. I like this quote from one of the papers showing negative effects on renal health "We suggest excessive fructose intake should be considered an environmental toxin with major health implications". so we know fructose impairs leptin sensitivity, increases obesity, can induce non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, increases LDL, impairs renal function and promotes insulin resistence. It is clearly not a healthy sugar to consume any large quantities of, i believe that is clear, that is the general consensus of the scientific community.
3 Address reprint requests to PJ Havel, Department of Nutrition, University of California, Davis, One Shields Avenue, Davis, CA 95616. E-mail: pjhavel@ucdavis.edu.
ABSTRACT
This review explores whether fructose consumption might be a contributing factor to the development of obesity and the accompanying metabolic abnormalities observed in the insulin resistance syndrome. The per capita disappearance data for fructose from the combined consumption of sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup have increased by 26%, from 64 g/d in 1970 to 81 g/d in 1997. Both plasma insulin and leptin act in the central nervous system in the long-term regulation of energy homeostasis. Because fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion from pancreatic ß cells, the consumption of foods and beverages containing fructose produces smaller postprandial insulin excursions than does consumption of glucose-containing carbohydrate. Because leptin production is regulated by insulin responses to meals, fructose consumption also reduces circulating leptin concentrations. The combined effects of lowered circulating leptin and insulin in individuals who consume diets that are high in dietary fructose could therefore increase the likelihood of weight gain and its associated metabolic sequelae. In addition, fructose, compared with glucose, is preferentially metabolized to lipid in the liver. Fructose consumption induces insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance, hyperinsulinemia, hypertriacylglycerolemia, and hypertension in animal models. The data in humans are less clear. Although there are existing data on the metabolic and endocrine effects of dietary fructose that suggest that increased consumption of fructose may be detrimental in terms of body weight and adiposity and the metabolic indexes associated with the insulin resistance syndrome, much more research is needed to fully understand the metabolic effect of dietary fructose in humans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC552336/?tool=pmcentrez
this paper shows elevated LDL cholesterol and triglycerides.
Nat Clin Pract Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Aug;2(8):447-58.
Childhood obesity: behavioral aberration or biochemical drive? Reinterpreting the First Law of Thermodynamics.
Lustig RH.
Source
Division of Endocrinology, University of California San Francisco, San Francisco, CA 94143-0434, USA. rlustig@peds.ucsf.edu
this shows its negative effect on leptin.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16076983
rat study on obesity
^ Hughes TA, Atchison J, Hazelrig JB, Boshell BR (1989). "Glycemic responses in insulin-dependent diabetic patients: effect of food composition". Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 49 (4): 658–66. PMID 2929488.
^ Wylie-Rosett, Judith; et al. (2004). "Carbohydrates and Increases in Obesity: Does the Type of Carbohydrate Make a Difference?". Obesity Res 12: 124S–129S. doi:10.1038/oby.2004.277. PMID 15601960.
^ a b Havel PJ (2001). "Peripheral signals conveying metabolic information to the brain: short-term and long-term regulation of food intake and energy homeostasis". Exp. Biol. Med. (Maywood) 226 (11): 963–77. PMID 11743131.
^ Dennison BA, Rockwell HL, Baker SL (1997). "Excess fruit juice consumption by preschool-aged children is associated with short stature and obesity". Pediatrics 99 (1): 15–22. PMID 8989331.
studies in humans showing the negative effects of fructose on insulin resistence and obesity, in humans, with fructose only.
another human study with just fructose, it's not looking good.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2000 Nov;72(5):1128-34.
Effects of dietary fructose on plasma lipids in healthy subjects.
Bantle JP, Raatz SK, Thomas W, Georgopoulos A.
Source
Department of Medicine, the General Clinical Research Center, the Division of Biostatistics, and the School of Public Health, the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN 55455, USA. bantl001@tc.umn.edu
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
About 9% of average dietary energy intake in the United States comes from fructose. Such a high consumption raises concern about the metabolic effects of this sugar.
OBJECTIVE:
The objective of this study was to determine the effect of dietary fructose on plasma lipids.
DESIGN:
The study was conducted in the General Clinical Research Center at Fairview-University of Minnesota Medical Center. The participants were 24 healthy adult volunteers (12 men and 12 women; 6 of each sex were aged <40 y and 6 of each sex were aged >/=40 y). All subjects received 2 isoenergetic study diets assigned by using a randomized, balanced crossover design. One diet provided 17% of energy as fructose. The other diet was sweetened with glucose and was nearly devoid of fructose. Each diet was fed for 6 wk. Both diets were composed of common foods and contained nearly identical amounts of carbohydrate, protein, fat, fiber, cholesterol, and saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fatty acids. All meals were prepared in the metabolic kitchen of the General Clinical Research Center.
RESULTS:
The responses to the study diets differed by sex. In men, the fructose diet produced significantly higher fasting, postprandial, and daylong plasma triacylglycerol concentrations than did the glucose diet. The daylong plasma triacylglycerol concentration after 6 wk of the fructose diet was 32% greater in men than the corresponding concentration during the glucose diet (P: < 0.001). The fructose diet had no significant effect on fasting or postprandial plasma triacylglycerol concentrations in women. The fructose diet also had no persistent effect on fasting plasma cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, or LDL cholesterol in either men or women.
CONCLUSIONS:
Dietary fructose was associated with increased fasting and postprandial plasma triacylglycerol concentrations in men. Diets high in added fructose may be undesirable, particularly for men. Glucose may be a suitable replacement sugar.
another human trial, liver issues
http://www.enerex.ca/en/articles/whey-protein-and-fructose-an-unhealthy-combination
http://www.westonaprice.org/modern-foods/murky-world-of-hfcs
It inducinG NAFLD
BACKGROUND/AIMS
While the rise in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) parallels the increase in obesity and diabetes, a significant increase in dietary fructose consumption in industrialized countries has also occurred. The increased consumption of high fructose corn syrup, primarily in the form of soft-drinks, is linked with complications of the insulin resistance syndrome. Furthermore, the hepatic metabolism of fructose favors de novo lipogenesis and ATP depletion. We hypothesize that increased fructose consumption contributes to the development of NAFLD.
METHODS
A dietary history and paired serum and liver tissue were obtained from patients with evidence of biopsy-proven NAFLD (n=49) without cirrhosis and controls (n=24) matched for gender, age (± 5 years), and body mass index (± 3 points).
RESULTS
Consumption of fructose in patients with NAFLD was nearly 2-3 fold higher than controls [365 kcal. vs 170 kcal (p<0.05)]. In patients with NAFLD (n=6), hepatic mRNA expression of fructokinase (KHK), an important enzyme for fructose metabolism, and fatty acid synthase, an important enzyme for lipogenesis were increased (p=0.04 and p=0.02 respectively). In an AML hepatocyte cell line, fructose resulted in dose-dependent increase in KHK protein and activity.
CONCLUSION
The pathogenic mechanism underlying the development of NAFLD may be associated with excessive dietary fructose consumption.
here again showing avoidance of fructose poses many benefits
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21523663
Lipids Health Dis. 2011 Jan 24;10:20.
Fructose impairs glucose-induced hepatic triglyceride synthesis.
Huang D, Dhawan T, Young S, Yong WH, Boros LG, Heaney AP.
Source
Department of Medicine, David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, Los Angeles, CA 90095, USA.
Abstract
Obesity, type 2 diabetes and hyperlipidemia frequently coexist and are associated with significantly increased morbidity and mortality. Consumption of refined carbohydrate and particularly fructose has increased significantly in recent years and has paralled the increased incidence of obesity and diabetes. Human and animal studies have demonstrated that high dietary fructose intake positively correlates with increased dyslipidemia, insulin resistance, and hypertension. Metabolism of fructose occurs primarily in the liver and high fructose flux leads to enhanced hepatic triglyceride accumulation (hepatic steatosis). This results in impaired glucose and lipid metabolism and increased proinflammatory cytokine expression. Here we demonstrate that fructose alters glucose-stimulated expression of activated acetyl CoA carboxylase (ACC), pSer hormone sensitive lipase (pSerHSL) and adipose triglyceride lipase (ATGL) in hepatic HepG2 or primary hepatic cell cultures in vitro. This was associated with increased de novo triglyceride synthesis in vitro and hepatic steatosis in vivo in fructose- versus glucose-fed and standard-diet fed mice. These studies provide novel insight into the mechanisms involved in fructose-mediated hepatic hypertriglyceridemia and identify fructose-uptake as a new potential therapeutic target for lipid-associated diseases
another
J Am Soc Nephrol. 2010 Dec;21(12):2036-9. Epub 2010 Nov 29.
The effect of fructose on renal biology and disease.
Johnson RJ, Sanchez-Lozada LG, Nakagawa T.
Source
Division of Renal Diseases and Hypertension, University of Colorado, Aurora, Colorado 80045, USA. richard.johnson@ucdenver.edu
Abstract
Dietary fructose intake is increasing. It is increasing primarily from added sugars, including sucrose and high fructose corn syrup, and correlates epidemiologically with the rising prevalence of metabolic syndrome and hypertension worldwide. The administration of fructose to animals and humans increases BP and the development of metabolic syndrome. These changes occur independently of caloric intake because of the effect of fructose on ATP depletion and uric acid generation. Fructose ingestion may also be a risk factor for kidney disease that includes glomerular hypertension, renal inflammation, and tubulointerstitial injury in animals. We suggest excessive fructose intake should be considered an environmental toxin with major health implications
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Been eating 6-8 servings of raw fruit and veggies for the last 15 years. That's why I look decades younger than my peers pears.
fixed
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I'm not sure he gets his daily 1.5 grams of protein per lbs of bodyweight.... :D
Don't worry, he probably gets it straight from the tap.
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so fruit is poison lol idiot
no, didnt say that but not that i expect you to have critical thinking skills. Fructose which is one of the sugars in fruits (varying degrees) is not a healthy sugar. There are things in fruits that are not healthy and not healthy for certain individuals. several servings of fruits a day is healthy due to the vitamins, phytochemicals etc. but having a fruit only or heavy diet is not, its just to much sugar which has all kinds of negative effects on health. Human physiology is such that meat and fatty acids are required in most cases. vegetables have more benefits then fruits while improving glucose regulation. Why do you think we have HCL in our stomachs, to digest carbs? lol.
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i dont care at all and he also looks like a homo and acts like one too.
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wow, by reading this thread I have learned that fruits are good for you, oh my goodness I feel so enlightenned ::)
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high fructose corn syrup is fructose, it is simply fructose mixed with another sugar mostly glucose, so the data still apply. I like this quote from one of the papers showing negative effects on renal health "We suggest excessive fructose intake should be considered an environmental toxin with major health implications". so we know fructose impairs leptin sensitivity, increases obesity, can induce non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, increases LDL, impairs renal function and promotes insulin resistence. It is clearly not a healthy sugar to consume any large quantities of, i believe that is clear, that is the general consensus of the scientific community.
3 Address reprint requests to PJ Havel, Department of Nutrition, University of California, Davis, One Shields Avenue, Davis, CA 95616. E-mail: pjhavel@ucdavis.edu.
ABSTRACT
This review explores whether fructose consumption might be a contributing factor to the development of obesity and the accompanying metabolic abnormalities observed in the insulin resistance syndrome. The per capita disappearance data for fructose from the combined consumption of sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup have increased by 26%, from 64 g/d in 1970 to 81 g/d in 1997. Both plasma insulin and leptin act in the central nervous system in the long-term regulation of energy homeostasis. Because fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion from pancreatic ß cells, the consumption of foods and beverages containing fructose produces smaller postprandial insulin excursions than does consumption of glucose-containing carbohydrate. Because leptin production is regulated by insulin responses to meals, fructose consumption also reduces circulating leptin concentrations. The combined effects of lowered circulating leptin and insulin in individuals who consume diets that are high in dietary fructose could therefore increase the likelihood of weight gain and its associated metabolic sequelae. In addition, fructose, compared with glucose, is preferentially metabolized to lipid in the liver. Fructose consumption induces insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance, hyperinsulinemia, hypertriacylglycerolemia, and hypertension in animal models. The data in humans are less clear. Although there are existing data on the metabolic and endocrine effects of dietary fructose that suggest that increased consumption of fructose may be detrimental in terms of body weight and adiposity and the metabolic indexes associated with the insulin resistance syndrome, much more research is needed to fully understand the metabolic effect of dietary fructose in humans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC552336/?tool=pmcentrez
this paper shows elevated LDL cholesterol and triglycerides.
Nat Clin Pract Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Aug;2(8):447-58.
Childhood obesity: behavioral aberration or biochemical drive? Reinterpreting the First Law of Thermodynamics.
Lustig RH.
Source
Division of Endocrinology, University of California San Francisco, San Francisco, CA 94143-0434, USA. rlustig@peds.ucsf.edu
this shows its negative effect on leptin.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16076983
rat study on obesity
^ Hughes TA, Atchison J, Hazelrig JB, Boshell BR (1989). "Glycemic responses in insulin-dependent diabetic patients: effect of food composition". Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 49 (4): 658–66. PMID 2929488.
^ Wylie-Rosett, Judith; et al. (2004). "Carbohydrates and Increases in Obesity: Does the Type of Carbohydrate Make a Difference?". Obesity Res 12: 124S–129S. doi:10.1038/oby.2004.277. PMID 15601960.
^ a b Havel PJ (2001). "Peripheral signals conveying metabolic information to the brain: short-term and long-term regulation of food intake and energy homeostasis". Exp. Biol. Med. (Maywood) 226 (11): 963–77. PMID 11743131.
^ Dennison BA, Rockwell HL, Baker SL (1997). "Excess fruit juice consumption by preschool-aged children is associated with short stature and obesity". Pediatrics 99 (1): 15–22. PMID 8989331.
studies in humans showing the negative effects of fructose on insulin resistence and obesity, in humans, with fructose only.
another human study with just fructose, it's not looking good.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2000 Nov;72(5):1128-34.
Effects of dietary fructose on plasma lipids in healthy subjects.
Bantle JP, Raatz SK, Thomas W, Georgopoulos A.
Source
Department of Medicine, the General Clinical Research Center, the Division of Biostatistics, and the School of Public Health, the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN 55455, USA. bantl001@tc.umn.edu
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
About 9% of average dietary energy intake in the United States comes from fructose. Such a high consumption raises concern about the metabolic effects of this sugar.
OBJECTIVE:
The objective of this study was to determine the effect of dietary fructose on plasma lipids.
DESIGN:
The study was conducted in the General Clinical Research Center at Fairview-University of Minnesota Medical Center. The participants were 24 healthy adult volunteers (12 men and 12 women; 6 of each sex were aged <40 y and 6 of each sex were aged >/=40 y). All subjects received 2 isoenergetic study diets assigned by using a randomized, balanced crossover design. One diet provided 17% of energy as fructose. The other diet was sweetened with glucose and was nearly devoid of fructose. Each diet was fed for 6 wk. Both diets were composed of common foods and contained nearly identical amounts of carbohydrate, protein, fat, fiber, cholesterol, and saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fatty acids. All meals were prepared in the metabolic kitchen of the General Clinical Research Center.
RESULTS:
The responses to the study diets differed by sex. In men, the fructose diet produced significantly higher fasting, postprandial, and daylong plasma triacylglycerol concentrations than did the glucose diet. The daylong plasma triacylglycerol concentration after 6 wk of the fructose diet was 32% greater in men than the corresponding concentration during the glucose diet (P: < 0.001). The fructose diet had no significant effect on fasting or postprandial plasma triacylglycerol concentrations in women. The fructose diet also had no persistent effect on fasting plasma cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, or LDL cholesterol in either men or women.
CONCLUSIONS:
Dietary fructose was associated with increased fasting and postprandial plasma triacylglycerol concentrations in men. Diets high in added fructose may be undesirable, particularly for men. Glucose may be a suitable replacement sugar.
another human trial, liver issues
http://www.enerex.ca/en/articles/whey-protein-and-fructose-an-unhealthy-combination
http://www.westonaprice.org/modern-foods/murky-world-of-hfcs
It inducinG NAFLD
BACKGROUND/AIMS
While the rise in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) parallels the increase in obesity and diabetes, a significant increase in dietary fructose consumption in industrialized countries has also occurred. The increased consumption of high fructose corn syrup, primarily in the form of soft-drinks, is linked with complications of the insulin resistance syndrome. Furthermore, the hepatic metabolism of fructose favors de novo lipogenesis and ATP depletion. We hypothesize that increased fructose consumption contributes to the development of NAFLD.
METHODS
A dietary history and paired serum and liver tissue were obtained from patients with evidence of biopsy-proven NAFLD (n=49) without cirrhosis and controls (n=24) matched for gender, age (± 5 years), and body mass index (± 3 points).
RESULTS
Consumption of fructose in patients with NAFLD was nearly 2-3 fold higher than controls [365 kcal. vs 170 kcal (p<0.05)]. In patients with NAFLD (n=6), hepatic mRNA expression of fructokinase (KHK), an important enzyme for fructose metabolism, and fatty acid synthase, an important enzyme for lipogenesis were increased (p=0.04 and p=0.02 respectively). In an AML hepatocyte cell line, fructose resulted in dose-dependent increase in KHK protein and activity.
CONCLUSION
The pathogenic mechanism underlying the development of NAFLD may be associated with excessive dietary fructose consumption.
here again showing avoidance of fructose poses many benefits
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21523663
Lipids Health Dis. 2011 Jan 24;10:20.
Fructose impairs glucose-induced hepatic triglyceride synthesis.
Huang D, Dhawan T, Young S, Yong WH, Boros LG, Heaney AP.
Source
Department of Medicine, David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, Los Angeles, CA 90095, USA.
Abstract
Obesity, type 2 diabetes and hyperlipidemia frequently coexist and are associated with significantly increased morbidity and mortality. Consumption of refined carbohydrate and particularly fructose has increased significantly in recent years and has paralled the increased incidence of obesity and diabetes. Human and animal studies have demonstrated that high dietary fructose intake positively correlates with increased dyslipidemia, insulin resistance, and hypertension. Metabolism of fructose occurs primarily in the liver and high fructose flux leads to enhanced hepatic triglyceride accumulation (hepatic steatosis). This results in impaired glucose and lipid metabolism and increased proinflammatory cytokine expression. Here we demonstrate that fructose alters glucose-stimulated expression of activated acetyl CoA carboxylase (ACC), pSer hormone sensitive lipase (pSerHSL) and adipose triglyceride lipase (ATGL) in hepatic HepG2 or primary hepatic cell cultures in vitro. This was associated with increased de novo triglyceride synthesis in vitro and hepatic steatosis in vivo in fructose- versus glucose-fed and standard-diet fed mice. These studies provide novel insight into the mechanisms involved in fructose-mediated hepatic hypertriglyceridemia and identify fructose-uptake as a new potential therapeutic target for lipid-associated diseases
another
J Am Soc Nephrol. 2010 Dec;21(12):2036-9. Epub 2010 Nov 29.
The effect of fructose on renal biology and disease.
Johnson RJ, Sanchez-Lozada LG, Nakagawa T.
Source
Division of Renal Diseases and Hypertension, University of Colorado, Aurora, Colorado 80045, USA. richard.johnson@ucdenver.edu
Abstract
Dietary fructose intake is increasing. It is increasing primarily from added sugars, including sucrose and high fructose corn syrup, and correlates epidemiologically with the rising prevalence of metabolic syndrome and hypertension worldwide. The administration of fructose to animals and humans increases BP and the development of metabolic syndrome. These changes occur independently of caloric intake because of the effect of fructose on ATP depletion and uric acid generation. Fructose ingestion may also be a risk factor for kidney disease that includes glomerular hypertension, renal inflammation, and tubulointerstitial injury in animals. We suggest excessive fructose intake should be considered an environmental toxin with major health implications
I never denied that high-fructose corn syrup is fructose; my point being that the amounts given to the rats were enormous, and that rats, being omniverous scavengers, do not process sugars as well as we do since their diet is more composed of animal matter including decaying animal matter. You cannot extrapolate those studies to humans.
As for the human studies you posted, the study I posted was done by several physiologists who analysed all the studies done and concluded that there is no conclusive evidence that fructose increases plasma triglycerides and insuling resistence in humans more than a diet with an equal amount of calories would. Funny that chimpanzees and lowland gorillas get 95% of their calories from fruit and yet never get any artherosclerosis or diabetes.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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He has been eating nothing but fruit for 6 years. And yet, he has so much energy that he can run 4 marathons in a week, and his complexion glows with vitality. His blood work shows outstanding health: extremely low LDL cholesterol and high HDL cholesterol, extremely low levels of uric acid, amonia and creatinine in urine and the most amazing thing of all is that, even though he gets 90% of his calories from carbohydrates, he has extremely low levels of insulin. Fruit is rich in fructose, a monosaccharide that dramatically increases the body's ability to use glucose effectively. And yes, he is very skinny, but that is not due to the fruitarian diet but due to the fact that he runs 20 miles a day, every day. Meat-eating marathoners look exactly like him.
I do not recommend this diet. Fruits are too low in EFAs and especially Calcium, Phosphorus, Iron and Zinc, and the little it does has very low bioavailability compared to the chelated minerals in animal proteins. But still, this diet is very good for the liver, kidneys, heart and vascular systems.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
sucky what are your thoughts on fructose being linked to glycation in humans? I try to avoid any concernrated forms of fructose especially HFCS, soda, fruit juice, etc... but do you think eating large amounts of fruit for years on end is likely to accelerate the aging process? (through glycation from long term exposure to fructose)? From a pure health perspective, is there anything fruit does that vegetables can't?
I think one cup of blueberries has like 7 grams of fructose
bananas have a little more
peaches and cherries are the lowest
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no, didnt say that but not that i expect you to have critical thinking skills. Fructose which is one of the sugars in fruits (varying degrees) is not a healthy sugar.
It is not healthy in large amounts just like glucose, protein and fatty acids are not either. All the studies done were with high fructose corn syrup. That is sucrose, a disaccharide composed of glucose and fructose. How can you isolate the fructose and say that it is the culprit? How can you know that is not the glucose? And all of the macronutrients and their component parts are unhealthy in large doses.
There are things in fruits that are not healthy and not healthy for certain individuals. several servings of fruits a day is healthy due to the vitamins, phytochemicals etc. but having a fruit only or heavy diet is not, its just to much sugar which has all kinds of negative effects on health. Human physiology is such that meat and fatty acids are required in most cases. vegetables have more benefits then fruits while improving glucose regulation. Why do you think we have HCL in our stomachs, to digest carbs? lol.
The hydrochloric acid in our stomachs is literally 10 times weaker than that in predators. And it is there because we need it to break down any protein - not just the one in meat. Meat is not required: amino acids are. And the essential fatty acids don't appear to be esential at all. There is evidence that the body can make both linoleic as well as alpha-linolenic acids from oleic and palmitoleic acids, which are omega-9 and omega-7 respectively and present in small amounts in most fruits and vegetables.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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no, didnt say that but not that i expect you to have critical thinking skills. Fructose which is one of the sugars in fruits (varying degrees) is not a healthy sugar. There are things in fruits that are not healthy and not healthy for certain individuals. several servings of fruits a day is healthy due to the vitamins, phytochemicals etc. but having a fruit only or heavy diet is not, its just to much sugar which has all kinds of negative effects on health. Human physiology is such that meat and fatty acids are required in most cases. vegetables have more benefits then fruits while improving glucose regulation. Why do you think we have HCL in our stomachs, to digest carbs? lol.
interesting. I would agree that vegetables are superior, however berries are an exception. There was a study done, showing that spinach, strawberry, and blueberry all improoved memory in mice. But only the blueberries were linked to increases in motor skills and balance/coordination. Blueberries are antiaging for the brain, and have the highest biovailibility of antioxidants of any fruit or vegetables to my knowledge. They cross the blood barrier very easily.
blueberries are antioxidants to what whey is to protein, highly biovailable. Blueberries have also been shown to improove memory, anti aging to the brain, and even increase IGF levels. Strawberries work in different parts of the brain, so a combination of berries is best IMO.
berries, green vegetables, bananas for the kidneys and watermelon for the lycopene.. alll that is needed
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sucky what are your thoughts on fructose being linked to glycation in humans? I try to avoid any concernrated forms of fructose especially HFCS, soda, fruit juice, etc... but do you think eating large amounts of fruit for years on end is likely to accelerate the aging process? (through glycation from long term exposure to fructose)? From a pure health perspective, is there anything fruit does that vegetables can't?
I think one cup of blueberries has like 7 grams of fructose
bananas have a little more
peaches and cherries are the lowest
Every metabolic reaction in your body is reducing and leads to electrons being stolen from your cells by oxidation. This is inevitable. Fructose seems to increase glycation more than glucose, but glycation is more related to protein intake than sugar intake.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Been eating 6-8 servings of raw fruit and veggies for the last 15 years. That's why I look decades younger than my peers.
What's an example of what you eat in a day?
I look younger than i am but then i'm only early 30's and told a lot i look 25. At 28 i was told i was 22-3. Even though i eat enough fruit and vegies i believe it's more staying lean and the training.
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no, didnt say that but not that i expect you to have critical thinking skills. Fructose which is one of the sugars in fruits (varying degrees) is not a healthy sugar. There are things in fruits that are not healthy and not healthy for certain individuals. several servings of fruits a day is healthy due to the vitamins, phytochemicals etc. but having a fruit only or heavy diet is not, its just to much sugar which has all kinds of negative effects on health. Human physiology is such that meat and fatty acids are required in most cases. vegetables have more benefits then fruits while improving glucose regulation. Why do you think we have HCL in our stomachs, to digest carbs? lol.
of course you love meat you name is Necrosis
HCL breaks down all things we injest. How come vegetarians never get ulcers an its always the meat eaters that do. That would be a meat induced HCL problem, this all leads to cancers= inflamation same as ulcers wich are an inflamation
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no one only just eats fruits and veggies you gotta get some beans and rice in there too
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It is not healthy in large amounts just like glucose, protein and fatty acids are not either. All the studies done were with high fructose corn syrup. That is sucrose, a disaccharide composed of glucose and fructose. How can you isolate the fructose and say that it is the culprit? How can you know that is not the glucose? And all of the macronutrients and their component parts are unhealthy in large doses.
The hydrochloric acid in our stomachs is literally 10 times weaker than that in predators. And it is there because we need it to break down any protein - not just the one in meat. Meat is not required: amino acids are. And the essential fatty acids don't appear to be esential at all. There is evidence that the body can make both linoleic as well as alpha-linolenic acids from oleic and palmitoleic acids, which are omega-9 and omega-7 respectively and present in small amounts in most fruits and vegetables.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
there are ample studies of fructose only, i was saying that the fructose only studies corroborate the HFCS studies, there are a multitude of human trials with only fructose, just pubmed it and use the limits humans. so the argument that its all hfcs is false, its not. As to how to discern the effects of glucose and fructose its impossible to do 100% however, studies have used up to 95% fructose and 5% glucose and that results continued to skew in a trend that was predicted if fructose was the culprit, its a correlation study, which lead the way for DBRPCT which corroborated the findings.
arguing against or for fruit is way harder then just railing against fructose as some fruits like bitter melon contain glycosides similar to glyburide and also has lectins which have insulin like effects, such that it is an anti-diabetic treatment. Therefore if you were to examing fructose using bitter melon and its effects on postpradial glucose and insulin secretion you would get a completely different story, here in lies the issue. Fructose is bad i have no qualms or reservations about that, the science bares this out, however, fruits is healthy for a whole other host of reasons.
are you saying the acidity of the HCL is higher in humans because its known to be between .9 and 2 which leaves little room for more acidity. Im no chemistry wiz though but are you maybe saying that the mmols of hcl is more dilute in the stomach contents? expand if you will. Also, saying its weaker or less without qualification is no argument at all, so what its more basic if this is true it doesn't take into account our elaborate enzymatic systems nor the difference between our alimentary canal and other species, its meaningless.
the conversion rates of omega-3 to eph and dha is terrible and not conducive to health, the other conversions if certain to exist are probably just as poor although i would have to see the data but some evidence as you articulated indicates that its not a well understood nor studied process, nor could it sustain life in ample amounts.The meat thing i agree, not sure if i said meat was essential, pretty sure i didnt but regardless HCL is for protein degredation and as part of the innate immune system.
HFCS is not sucrose in a traditional sense as varying levels of the constituents are availible with varying bonds that aren't found in traditional table sugar, its a manufactured sweetner with the composition of sucrose. however, that is a side bar argument.
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of course you love meat you name is Necrosis
HCL breaks down all things we injest. How come vegetarians never get ulcers an its always the meat eaters that do. That would be a meat induced HCL problem, this all leads to cancers= inflamation same as ulcers wich are an inflamation
what? ulcers arent caused by HCL so there is no point in responding to this, gastrin secretion is a positive feedback loop as well.
i have no idea if ulcers are higher in vegetarians or omnivores, do you have any proof? even if you did why jump to the conclusion that meat is the problem, perhaps its the bacteria which can reside in meat that is inducing ulceration, H. PYLORI sayz OH HAI.
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no one only just eats fruits and veggies you gotta get some beans and rice in there too
You had the pathogenesis of ulcers wrong but this is 100% right.
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just to qualify, save cases like zollinger-ellison syndrome normal hcl does not induce ulcers. I can describe how they occur if you actually care.
im not against fruit ftr. I think berries are the healthiest thing you can eat.
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He has been eating nothing but fruit for 6 years. And yet, he has so much energy that he can run 4 marathons in a week, and his complexion glows with vitality. His blood work shows outstanding health: extremely low LDL cholesterol and high HDL cholesterol, extremely low levels of uric acid, amonia and creatinine in urine and the most amazing thing of all is that, even though he gets 90% of his calories from carbohydrates, he has extremely low levels of insulin. Fruit is rich in fructose, a monosaccharide that dramatically increases the body's ability to use glucose effectively. And yes, he is very skinny, but that is not due to the fruitarian diet but due to the fact that he runs 20 miles a day, every day. Meat-eating marathoners look exactly like him.
I do not recommend this diet. Fruits are too low in EFAs and especially Calcium, Phosphorus, Iron and Zinc, and the little it does has very low bioavailability compared to the chelated minerals in animal proteins. But still, this diet is very good for the liver, kidneys, heart and vascular systems.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
What a tool! Steve Jobs was basically a fruitarian and look what happened to him! He eats out of the carton and then puts it back.
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interesting
necrosis backwards is sis or cen= "cease or sin"
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Whole fruit has fibre don't forget which makes it a lot different than corn syrup. There is a video on YouTube of some guy who takes his BGL prior to eating 14 bananas at once and his levels don't rise above normal limits. I will try to find it.
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So would anyone here use fruit for cutting?
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Been eating 6-8 servings of raw fruit and veggies for the last 15 years. That's why I look decades younger than my peers.
I don't eat vegetables at all, I eat fruits from time to time... I look 4-5 years younger than my peers. Same goes for my dad and mother. Ever heard of genetics?
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So would anyone here use fruit for cutting?
It isn't talked about much but Lee Haney ate a diet with lots of whole fruit and whole eggs when prepping.
Albert beckles had a famous tuna and pineapple diet.
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It isn't talked about much but Lee Haney ate a diet with lots of whole fruit and whole eggs when prepping.
Albert beckles had a famous tuna and pineapple diet.
some of these guys are fucking idiots I swear. Guys are afraid of whole eggs and fruit, but fine with brown rice and oatmeal lmao! What cracks me up even more is these walking pharmacies who couldnt get fat if there life depended on it with all the gh they are on, but weigh out their food and count their almonds;D
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I don't eat vegetables at all, I eat fruits from time to time... I look 4-5 years younger than my peers. Same goes for my dad and mother. Ever heard of genetics?
Training and eating well do make a massive difference to how you age as well.
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Training and eating well do make a massive difference to how you age as well.
yep. Eating especially. Look at Tbombz, guy looks 40 because of the massive amount of calories/processed foods and binging he has done throughout the years.
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So would anyone here use fruit for cutting?
doesnt matter what you eat when youre on the juice.
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doesnt matter what you eat when youre on the juice.
In fact on Trenbalona and GH you can eat non-stop all day. You are also so paranoid you eat more fruit just in case you start losing muscle and look small.
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I can't imagine how bad the diarrhea would be.
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I don't eat vegetables at all, I eat fruits from time to time... I look 4-5 years younger than my peers. Same goes for my dad and mother. Ever heard of genetics?
May be genetics, of course. tho' 4-5 years or even 10 isn't really impressive. Impressive is when one is 40 and can pass for 20. i.e.: Leto
(http://jared-leto.net/Gallery/albums/donated/2011_donated/Kayleigh139Lille18Nov2011/0041.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lr02qcJ5EZ8/TtEH1Tn3GeI/AAAAAAAAAUw/rLkkkZ5CTXA/s1600/DSC07402.JPG)
(http://www.jared-leto.net/Gallery/albums/donated/2011_donated/augustabiancaParis11Nov2011/0028.jpg)
As for this fruitcake fella. I'd say - raw foodism + some meat and no grains would be an ideal way to go for a health (hunters gatherers lifestyle). Genome is best adapted for that, esp. after about 30yo (as natural selection starts to slow down, hence why we age at all, and the ancient phenotype gets more active, and it's not adapted to an agriculture revolution. Well - not yet...).
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Been eating 6-8 servings of raw fruit and veggies for the last 15 years. That's why I look decades younger than my peers.
Dare to post some pics?
And I understand that fruits and veggies are IN ADDITION to other food, amirite?
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Jared leto the vegetarian.
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looks like Jared Leto is on some good gh. Dude looks 25 tops
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looks like Jared Leto is on some good gh. Dude looks 25 tops
Must feel nice:
(http://i.imgur.com/2F1ia.jpg)
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looks like Jared Leto is on some good gh. Dude looks 25 tops
So does this guy and he's over 40
(http://www.bodybuilders.com/levron105new1.jpg)
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kev looks awesome there. Now that is a pussy pulling physique!
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Is this a sick joke? This is a BODYBUILDING board and some buck forty queer that only eats fruit is praised and anybody with some muscle is derided.
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I eat a lot of fruit.
I figure if I need carbs to grow, might as well get them from a natural source that is full of vitamins and other goodies.
When I wasn't using AAS, I still ate a lot of fruit and I never had a problem staying lean.
When I moved into my new place and ate shit food for a few weeks while I was getting settled, I started to look like
crap. I don't know what it is, but the body seems to react better to fruits than other carb sources.
I think insulin ages you. I'm not just talking about injecting slin, I also mean your body's natural response to carbs.
People that eat a lot of carbs will age faster than people who don't. It's not just calorie restriction that is responsible for
life extensionist's longer lives and younger looks, its less insulin response too, IMO.
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I eat a lot of fruit.
I figure if I need carbs to grow, might as well get them from a natural source that is full of vitamins and other goodies.
When I wasn't using AAS, I still ate a lot of fruit and I never had a problem staying lean.
When I moved into my new place and ate shit food for a few weeks while I was getting settled, I started to look like
crap. I don't know what it is, but the body seems to react better to fruits than other carb sources.
I think insulin ages you. I'm not just talking about injecting slin, I also mean your body's natural response to carbs.
People that eat a lot of carbs will age faster than people who don't. It's not just calorie restriction that is responsible for
life extensionist's longer lives and younger looks, its less insulin response too, IMO.
CR effect is achieved partially through igf-1 pathway (the supression of it) and insulin is one of important hormones which acts on it (and even more importantly on m-tor pathway) so it boils down to the same afterall...
Slin is a shitty hormone, while it may help to get freaky huge - it's certainly not the holly grail of health. far from it.
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yep. Eating especially. Look at Tbombz, guy looks 40 because of the massive amount of calories/processed foods and binging he has done throughout the years.
has alot more to do with my bodyfat, androgen use, bone structure, and thick german/american indian skin
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Fructose actually improves the ability of the body to utilize glucose by activating glucokinase activity in the liver instead of inducing insulin resistence and artherosclerosis via increased plasma levels of triglycerides like is commonly believed.
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/51/3/606.abstract (http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/51/3/606.abstract)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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the google fu
is strong in
this thread
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Slin is a shitty hormone, while it may help to get freaky huge - it's certainly not the holly grail of health. far from it.
I agree. I think it ruined bodybuilding, and people's health.
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I eat a lot of fruit.
I figure if I need carbs to grow, might as well get them from a natural source that is full of vitamins and other goodies.
When I wasn't using AAS, I still ate a lot of fruit and I never had a problem staying lean.
When I moved into my new place and ate shit food for a few weeks while I was getting settled, I started to look like
crap. I don't know what it is, but the body seems to react better to fruits than other carb sources.
I think insulin ages you. I'm not just talking about injecting slin, I also mean your body's natural response to carbs.
People that eat a lot of carbs will age faster than people who don't. It's not just calorie restriction that is responsible for
life extensionist's longer lives and younger looks, its less insulin response too, IMO.
but fruit doesnt raise insulin much
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has alot more to do with my bodyfat, androgen use, bone structure, and thick german/american indian skin
I hear you. I look much older than I am as well and I think androgens are the culprit. I could easily pass for 25. bloat especially makes you look much older. Dieted down I look like my age again
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I agree. I think it ruined bodybuilding, and people's health.
I agree, you do not need it to get huge anyways. . Steroids and growth hormone,yes, of course, but as for insulin there are just too many huge guys out there who don't use insulin, too many huge guys on this board who dont use insulin, and too many guys on this board and in real life who have used it and got nothing out of it ...maybe Dante and Tbombz are right on this one, insulin is overrated. I have used a moderate amount not abused it but have dabbled a bit.
I feel that abusing insulin is alot of work for a little benefit, that might not happen anyways.
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Fructose actually improves the ability of the body to utilize glucose by activating glucokinase activity in the liver instead of inducing insulin resistence and artherosclerosis via increased plasma levels of triglycerides like is commonly believed.
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/51/3/606.abstract (http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/51/3/606.abstract)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
your spot on for once
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Must feel nice:
(http://i.imgur.com/2F1ia.jpg)
whoa, is he 40 years old in that picture? he looks younger than me and he's got 20 years on me
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Slin is a shitty hormone, while it may help to get freaky huge - it's certainly not the holly grail of health. far from it.
slin is great and perfectly healthy, undoubtedly healthier than hgh. the problem isn't the slin it's that with slin abuse comes massive carb intake, so you have people eating 1,000 carbs a day which obviously is extremely unhealthy and what causes the gut distention and health problems. slin is a nice addition to any cycle when used in moderation and intelligently.
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whoa, is he 40 years old in that picture? he looks younger than me and he's got 20 years on me
He fucking can't be...He better not be!
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He fucking can't be...He better not be!
I can calm you down.................... ........................ ..............he's like 39 and 9 months in that particular pic ;D...
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He's got beautiful skin! Yummy...
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I can calm you down.................... ........................ ..............he's like 39 and 9 months in that particular pic ;D...
Doesn't even look over 30. But what's the point if you ain't a beast like the Bull?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=401621.0;attach=443692;image)
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slin is great and perfectly healthy, undoubtedly healthier than hgh. the problem isn't the slin it's that with slin abuse comes massive carb intake, so you have people eating 1,000 carbs a day which obviously is extremely unhealthy and what causes the gut distention and health problems. slin is a nice addition to any cycle when used in moderation and intelligently.
Purely from a mollecular point of view - insulin causes quite a havoc on the "phenotype of youth" (aka - perfect health) on the long run.
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Doesn't even look over 30. But what's the point if you ain't a beast like the Bull?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=401621.0;attach=443692;image)
Fucken hell...that's gross. I'll take the fruit eater anyday. ;D He can eat my peach. :P
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Doesn't even look over 30. But what's the point if you ain't a beast like the Bull?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=401621.0;attach=443692;image)
Of course..I "can" see this bull snatching whores like these all the time :D
(http://i.imgur.com/RsAKO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/otAYt.jpg)
Searched for even more recent pics then that one. 40 in a month or so..:
(http://i.imgur.com/kOzQ8.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yoXLn.jpg)
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Holy crap, he needs a bit of a haircut. :o
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Holy crap, he needs a bit of a haircut. :o
x2. Bull doesn't and he would snap that pencil neck like it were a breadstick.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402682.0;attach=442108;image)
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x2. Bull doesn't and he would snap that pencil neck like it were a breadstick.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402682.0;attach=442108;image)
I almost threw up my bunch of cherries. :-X
I'll take the long haired lout anyday over that freaky bald ugly beast.
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This woman has been living on a diet of 90% fruit with the remainder being vegetables for 4 years and she has climbed Mount Everest without Oxygen. She hasn't dropped dead from artherosclerosis and diabetes like the rat studies where high doses of fructose, glucose and fat let the rats to develop all these problems. She is 33 year-old and could pass for 23.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Purely from a mollecular point of view - insulin causes quite a havoc on the "phenotype of youth" (aka - perfect health) on the long run.
yeah sure but you can apply that logic to practically everything as existence in and of itself is stressful on the human body. i don't think insulin in low/moderate dosages is going to cause any issues, specially considering it is a naturally produced hormone and the causes of metabolic syndrome stem mostly from obesity, sedentary lifestyle and excessive food intake, not the insulin itself.
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yeah sure but you can apply that logic to practically everything as existence in and of itself is stressful on the human body. i don't think insulin in low/moderate dosages is going to cause any issues, specially considering it is a naturally produced hormone and the causes of metabolic syndrome stem mostly from obesity, sedentary lifestyle and excessive food intake, not the insulin itself.
Well I'm talking from a standpoint of an "anti-aging" taken to the extreme (for ex. fried foods cause an intracellular accumulation of Advanced Glycation End products aka AGEs.. So while one can eat fried foods in moderation and stay healthy, not get a colon cancer/etc.. from a standpoint of achieving a most optimal health and longevity - fried foods should be crossed out from a diet all together. As you could postpone the worsening of your sight due to damaged proteins by AGEs in your lens, but you just won't know that as there's only one way of two in this case, and you couldn't go back to check another one, if you know what I mean, as one of the examples.). So basically what I want to say is that insulin, according to a decent amont of studies on various organisms is tied to some major pro-aging genetic pathways very closely, and while it may not harm you in an obvious way that you could pin point insulin as a culprit, it may "harm" you in a "passive mode", as rendering various mollecular mechanisms in your body less effective, compared to what they'd be without a prior slin surges, on the long run.
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Well I'm talking from a standpoint of an "anti-aging" taken to the extreme (for ex. fried foods cause an intracellular accumulation of Advanced Glycation End products aka AGEs.. So while one can eat fried foods in moderation and stay healthy, not get a colon cancer/etc.. from a standpoint of achieving a most optimal health and longevity - fried foods should be crossed out from a diet all together. As you could postpone the worsening of your sight due to damaged proteins by AGEs in your lens, but you just won't know that as there's only one way of two in this case, and you couldn't go back to check another one, if you know what I mean, as one of the examples.). So basically what I want to say is that insulin, according to a decent amont of studies on various organisms is tied to some major pro-aging genetic pathways very closely, and while it may not harm you in an obvious way that you could pin point insulin as a culprit, it may "harm" you in a "passive mode", as rendering various mollecular mechanisms in your body less effective, compared to what they'd be without a prior slin surges, on the long run.
good point however on the otherhand theres a picture of jared leto a few posts up carrying a bag of groceries of many fructose and glucose containing foods which is purported the cause of glycation, the supposed cause of aging. seems like jared leto put that theory to rest 8)
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Well I'm talking from a standpoint of an "anti-aging" taken to the extreme (for ex. fried foods cause an intracellular accumulation of Advanced Glycation End products aka AGEs.. So while one can eat fried foods in moderation and stay healthy, not get a colon cancer/etc.. from a standpoint of achieving a most optimal health and longevity - fried foods should be crossed out from a diet all together. As you could postpone the worsening of your sight due to damaged proteins by AGEs in your lens, but you just won't know that as there's only one way of two in this case, and you couldn't go back to check another one, if you know what I mean, as one of the examples.). So basically what I want to say is that insulin, according to a decent amont of studies on various organisms is tied to some major pro-aging genetic pathways very closely, and while it may not harm you in an obvious way that you could pin point insulin as a culprit, it may "harm" you in a "passive mode", as rendering various mollecular mechanisms in your body less effective, compared to what they'd be without a prior slin surges, on the long run.
awesome post! very good and informative. I will add though, that very low doses of insulin are used for rejuvination/anti aging purposes and healing. Not supraphysiological amounts like these bodybuilders use, I'm talking about 1-3 iu here
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good point however on the otherhand theres a picture of jared leto a few posts up carrying a bag of groceries of many fructose and glucose containing foods which is purported the cause of glycation, the supposed cause of aging. seems like jared leto put that theory to rest 8)
J.Leto is Dorian Gray lol.. Dude literally hasn't aged a bit in the last 20 years, so I suspect there's something else going on in addition to a decent life style. Oh, and pay attention - he's pale as a vampire all the time and seems to avoid sun by covering his face with hats/sunglasses/etc while outside. UV damage is a huge factor in photoaging.
flinstones>Not sure about the details, but I'd say it may be true as if it's used in a short term to increase a recovery rate. And obviously some insulin is needed for the body, but if the pancreas is in tact - noone really would need an exogenous slin (once again - unless in some case of injury/etc.. for the increased rate of recuperation. But I'm personally not sure on this, tho' theoretically it may be feasible.).
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all fruit diet?!
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^^LMFAO
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Well I'm talking from a standpoint of an "anti-aging" taken to the extreme (for ex. fried foods cause an intracellular accumulation of Advanced Glycation End products aka AGEs.. So while one can eat fried foods in moderation and stay healthy, not get a colon cancer/etc.. from a standpoint of achieving a most optimal health and longevity - fried foods should be crossed out from a diet all together. As you could postpone the worsening of your sight due to damaged proteins by AGEs in your lens, but you just won't know that as there's only one way of two in this case, and you couldn't go back to check another one, if you know what I mean, as one of the examples.). So basically what I want to say is that insulin, according to a decent amont of studies on various organisms is tied to some major pro-aging genetic pathways very closely, and while it may not harm you in an obvious way that you could pin point insulin as a culprit, it may "harm" you in a "passive mode", as rendering various mollecular mechanisms in your body less effective, compared to what they'd be without a prior slin surges, on the long run.
Ok, if you are talking about extreme anti-ageing, then the only thing that matters are calories. If you eat 500 calories a day of fry foods, you will be healthier and live longer than someone who eats 3,000 calories a day of boiled chicken breast, brown rice and broccoli. Nothing activates DNA repair and genes related to cell repair like extreme caloric restriction. But on an equal number of calories, the person with the healthier diet will look younger and age slower than the one with the less healthy diet.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Someone should tell this dumbfuck that these are not real fruits. He should try some real ones sometime.
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Ok, if you are talking about extreme anti-ageing, then the only thing that matters are calories. If you eat 500 calories a day of fry foods, you will be healthier and live longer than someone who eats 3,000 calories a day of boiled chicken breast, brown rice and broccoli. Nothing activates DNA repair and genes related to cell repair like extreme caloric restriction. But on an equal number of calories, the person with the healthier diet will look younger and age slower than the one with the less healthy diet.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Just to be precise - malnutrition (as in lack of minerals and vitamins) most probably would cause harm on the long run by itself. CR is a very well thought out type of diet by eating small number of cals BUT getting the maximum amount of valuable nutritiens from these calories.
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Just to be precise - malnutrition (as in lack of minerals and vitamins) most probably would cause harm on the long run by itself. CR is a very well thought out type of diet by eating small number of cals BUT getting the maximum amount of valuable nutritiens from these calories.
I don't deny that. I am just saying that severe caloric restriction increases antioxidant, anabolic activity in cells and improves plasma glucose levels, blood lipid profile and decrease markers of inflammation more than anything else.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Reminds me of her :
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Reminds me of her :
I wish I could even just eat 2 bananas a day. :'( Too expensive here.
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71:
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"Frutarian", sounds like he loves the meat pipe, but doesn't swallow. :-X :-X
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I consume about 10kg of fruits a week, but I don't consider my self frutarian. I eat eggs and fish and bread and other shit... I have almost given up meat completely, the only time I eat meat if I visit my mom or order a pizza or eat bacon when I have a hangover (the rare times I ever have bacon)
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Well, I can paste photo of my 48 year old mother who could also look so young with makeup and in shitty video quality. She eats everything. Her grandmother died when she was over 90... There's couple 100 year olds in my family as well.
I do believe that diet and exercise may help you live longer and look younger but on the other hand I do know many vegans and vegetarians that are twice younger but they honestly look like shit. As long as you take care of your body any other change won't make that much of a difference IMO. I had a gf who is bullimic/anorexic - and yes, this kind of "diet" literally destroys your skin and body.
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I do believe that diet and exercise may help you live longer and look younger but on the other hand I do know many vegans and vegetarians that are twice younger but they honestly look like shit.
As long as you take care of your body any other change won't make that much of a difference IMO. I had a gf who is bullimic/anorexic - and yes, this kind of "diet" literally destroys your skin and body.
Agreed. People go over board with everything. I've replaced many doses of beef and meat in general with fruits, veggies, eggs and tuna and I gotta say I feel overally much better. But to only do this or that is not good for me. To each it's own..
Now days the food is filled with chemicals that are used for rat poisons etc, so that's one reason I don't like to eat animal products that much...
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devilsmile you are missing out on the wonders of red meat. It has so many health benefits and healing powers. Notice how much better your complexion looks when eating beef,also most people grow better off red meat better than other protein sources
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I don't deny that. I am just saying that severe caloric restriction increases antioxidant, anabolic activity in cells and improves plasma glucose levels, blood lipid profile and decrease markers of inflammation more than anything else.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
how long would one need to do this to get the benefits IYO? Would fasting one day a week be enough? I wonder what the muscle loss would be like.
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how long would one need to do this to get the benefits IYO? Would fasting one day a week be enough? I wonder what the muscle loss would be like.
Beef is a good growth promoting food because there's plenty of methionine in it (that's counter productive if we talk anti-aging. just to be speific).
And fasting, even EOD does not produce CR effect, sadly. Tho' it may be beneficial for cancer prevention, and in that case fasting should be performed for like 7-10 days str8 (once or twice a year), for a body to enter the ketones phase (especially good for brain tumor prevention)..
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I think this is over the top. But I have watched this documentary, which is worth a watch:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1227378/
(http://marycrimmins.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/fat-sick-nearly-dead-2.jpg)
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your spot on for once
no read the paper it does not say that at all, in fact it explicitly states what fructose does and doesn't do in the subjects, perhaps you should read the paper. Also, the paper is terrible its power is next to nothing as it has 10 subjects in the active group and only 7 controls. The spelling is terrible in the paper as well with numerous mistakes it also makes up several scientific terms.
what group benefited from the fructose? i know this isn't a place for intelligent discussion but i'm a science nazi
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good point however on the otherhand theres a picture of jared leto a few posts up carrying a bag of groceries of many fructose and glucose containing foods which is purported the cause of glycation, the supposed cause of aging. seems like jared leto put that theory to rest 8)
u actually think one person living at the age of 40 disproves a theory? have you ever attended college? think about that statment, there are people who eat glass and are 85 which proves glass enhances longevity.
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I don't deny that. I am just saying that severe caloric restriction increases antioxidant, anabolic activity in cells and improves plasma glucose levels, blood lipid profile and decrease markers of inflammation more than anything else.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
100% agreed
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x2. Bull doesn't and he would snap that pencil neck like it were a breadstick.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402682.0;attach=442108;image)
Ben Grimm looking hard as nails
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btw, Jared Leto used botox
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btw, Jared Leto used botox
You think so?
If true - I'll have some of that stuff when the time comes haha..
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no read the paper it does not say that at all, in fact it explicitly states what fructose does and doesn't do in the subjects, perhaps you should read the paper. Also, the paper is terrible its power is next to nothing as it has 10 subjects in the active group and only 7 controls. The spelling is terrible in the paper as well with numerous mistakes it also makes up several scientific terms.
The paper does not state that fructose increases artherosclerosis or the risk of diabetes; it states that fructose increases plasma glycerols but that this has not been conclusively been demonstrated to increase artherosclerosis risk in humans but only in controlled rat studies who were given extremely high doses of high-fructose corn syrup. You cannot extrapolate studies done on rats with incredibly high levels of fructose and glucose and fat and say that humans who eat fruit have an increased risk of artherosclerosis compared to humans who don't eat fruit - everything else being equal. You also glossed over the part where the paper states that fructose in low doses increases glucose metabolic efficiency by signaling glucokinase.
what group benefited from the fructose? i know this isn't a place for intelligent discussion but i'm a science nazi
Your attempt at argumentum ad verecundiam notwithstanding, can you post a single paper proving that fructose increases the risk of artherosclerosis and diabetes conclusively for which fructose was shown to be the only variable in this - a study controlled for extraneous variables such as that fructose can only be the culprit?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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You think so?
If true - I'll have some of that stuff when the time comes haha..
I know so. google some pics of him, when the guy makes certain facial expressions his forehead doesn't move like a normal person's forehead would. I know cosmetics :) Even a child with perfect skin will make that wrinkled look in the forehead for the few seconds when making certain "funny faces". Leto's doesn't budge
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The paper does not state that fructose increases artherosclerosis or the risk of diabetes; it states that fructose increases plasma glycerols but that this has not been conclusively been demonstrated to increase artherosclerosis risk in humans but only in controlled rat studies who were given extremely high doses of high-fructose corn syrup. You cannot extrapolate studies done on rats with incredibly high levels of fructose and glucose and fat and say that humans who eat fruit have an increased risk of artherosclerosis compared to humans who don't eat fruit - everything else being equal. You also glossed over the part where the paper states that fructose in low doses increases glucose metabolic efficiency by signaling glucokinase.
i didnt gloss over the part, you are not interpreting what they said correctly, read
"Thus, the administration of small amounts of fructose to type 2 diabetic subjects partially corrected the regulation of GP by hyperglycemia per se, yet did not affect this regulation in the nondiabetic subjects. This suggests that the liver’s inability to respond to hyperglycemia in type 2 diabetes, likely caused by impaired GK activity, contributes substantially to the increased GP in these individuals."
in what individuals was the effect found in? which group was the effect of fructose not found in? there is the answer right there, the paper is shit imo.
Your attempt at argumentum ad verecundiam notwithstanding, can you post a single paper proving that fructose increases the risk of artherosclerosis and diabetes conclusively for which fructose was shown to be the only variable in this - a study controlled for extraneous variables such as that fructose can only be the culprit?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
i have already posted several i can post new ones however, we were not arguing fruit that is moving the goalposts, different fruits as ive already outlined have numerous constituents which cloud the argument, no type of fruit is the same, i stated that fructose is a metabolic poison since in your opening post you claimed it was a healthy sugar with numerous benefits.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2011 Aug;94(2):479-85. Epub 2011 Jun 15.
Low to moderate sugar-sweetened beverage consumption impairs glucose and lipid metabolism and promotes inflammation in healthy young men: a randomized controlled trial.
Aeberli I, Gerber PA, Hochuli M, Kohler S, Haile SR, Gouni-Berthold I, Berthold HK, Spinas GA, Berneis K.
Source
Division of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Clinical Nutrition, University Hospital Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland.
Abstract
Background: Sugar-sweetened beverages (SSBs) have unfavorable effects on glucose and lipid metabolism if consumed in high quantities by obese subjects, but the effect of lower doses in normal-weight subjects is less clear. OBJECTIVE: The aim was to investigate the effects of SSBs consumed in small to moderate quantities for 3 wk on LDL particle distribution and on other parameters of glucose and lipid metabolism as well as on inflammatory markers in healthy young men. Design: Twenty-nine subjects were studied in a prospective, randomized, controlled crossover trial. Six 3-wk interventions were assigned in random order as follows: 600 mL SSBs containing 1)40 g fructose/d [medium fructose (MF)], 2) 80 g fructose/d [high fructose (HF)], 3) 40 g glucose/d [medium glucose (MG)], 4) 80 g glucose/d [high glucose (HG)], 5) 80 g sucrose/d [high sucrose (HS)], or 6) dietary advice to consume low amounts of fructose. Outcome parameters were measured at baseline and after each intervention. Results: LDL particle size was reduced after HF by -0.51 nm (95% CI: -0.19, -0.82 nm) and after HS by -0.43 nm (95% CI: -0.12, -0.74; P < 0.05 for both). Similarly, a more atherogenic LDL subclass distribution was seen when fructose-containing SSBs were consumed (MF, HF, and HS: P < 0.05). Fasting glucose and high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hs-CRP) increased significantly after all interventions (by 4-9% and 60-109%, respectively; P < 0.05); leptin increased during interventions with SSBs containing glucose only (MG and HG: P < 0.05). CONCLUSION: The present data show potentially harmful effects of low to moderate consumption of SSBs on markers of cardiovascular risk such as LDL particles, fasting glucose, and hs-CRP within just 3 wk in healthy young men, which is of particular significance for young consumers. This trial was registered at clinicaltrials.gov as NCT01021969.
here is a review
Lipids Health Dis. 2011 Jan 24;10:20.
Fructose impairs glucose-induced hepatic triglyceride synthesis.
Huang D, Dhawan T, Young S, Yong WH, Boros LG, Heaney AP.
Source
Department of Medicine, David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, Los Angeles, CA 90095, USA.
Abstract
Obesity, type 2 diabetes and hyperlipidemia frequently coexist and are associated with significantly increased morbidity and mortality. Consumption of refined carbohydrate and particularly fructose has increased significantly in recent years and has paralled the increased incidence of obesity and diabetes. Human and animal studies have demonstrated that high dietary fructose intake positively correlates with increased dyslipidemia, insulin resistance, and hypertension. Metabolism of fructose occurs primarily in the liver and high fructose flux leads to enhanced hepatic triglyceride accumulation (hepatic steatosis). This results in impaired glucose and lipid metabolism and increased proinflammatory cytokine expression. Here we demonstrate that fructose alters glucose-stimulated expression of activated acetyl CoA carboxylase (ACC), pSer hormone sensitive lipase (pSerHSL) and adipose triglyceride lipase (ATGL) in hepatic HepG2 or primary hepatic cell cultures in vitro. This was associated with increased de novo triglyceride synthesis in vitro and hepatic steatosis in vivo in fructose- versus glucose-fed and standard-diet fed mice. These studies provide novel insight into the mechanisms involved in fructose-mediated hepatic hypertriglyceridemia and identify fructose-uptake as a new potential therapeutic target for lipid-associated diseases.
J Am Soc Nephrol. 2010 Dec;21(12):2036-9. Epub 2010 Nov 29.
The effect of fructose on renal biology and disease.
Johnson RJ, Sanchez-Lozada LG, Nakagawa T.
Source
Division of Renal Diseases and Hypertension, University of Colorado, Aurora, Colorado 80045, USA. richard.johnson@ucdenver.edu
Abstract
Dietary fructose intake is increasing. It is increasing primarily from added sugars, including sucrose and high fructose corn syrup, and correlates epidemiologically with the rising prevalence of metabolic syndrome and hypertension worldwide. The administration of fructose to animals and humans increases BP and the development of metabolic syndrome. These changes occur independently of caloric intake because of the effect of fructose on ATP depletion and uric acid generation. Fructose ingestion may also be a risk factor for kidney disease that includes glomerular hypertension, renal inflammation, and tubulointerstitial injury in animals. We suggest excessive fructose intake should be considered an environmental toxin with major health implications.
i still think fruit is good but fructose has nothing to do with it in the slightest.
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this was your claim with which i started the debate
"Fruit is rich in fructose, a monosaccharide that dramatically increases the body's ability to use glucose effectively."
this is just not true, the science clearly states this. I wasn't arguing if fruit is healthy or not, i stated that fructose is a metabolic poison and it is. it causes numerous physiological issues and when in isolation from fiber etc as in fruit juices its a key to type 2 beetus and fat fucks.
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Just watch what incredible shape has this 61 years old fruitarian! :o
Amazing what this diet can do for you!
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I wish I could even just eat 2 bananas a day. :'( Too expensive here.
Aussie right?
at least you got there amazing weather...
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I know so. google some pics of him, when the guy makes certain facial expressions his forehead doesn't move like a normal person's forehead would. I know cosmetics :) Even a child with perfect skin will make that wrinkled look in the forehead for the few seconds when making certain "funny faces". Leto's doesn't budge
Idk, he seems to be able to make expressions (at least compared to some of the obviously "frozen" celebrities):
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrgttq3TC31qa42jro1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1322601859&Signature=ji3H3YLXsSzOT9Junom4NLipa5Y%3D)
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jared leto would not be puling those dimes if he wasnt rich and famous. dudes nose is fucked up looking and he is a twink. could deifnitely pull plenty of 7's and 8's with a good personality, but the idea hes getting smokin hot chicks cuz of his looks is fuckiin wacked.
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jared leto would not be puling those dimes if he wasnt rich and famous. dudes nose is fucked up looking and he is a twink. could deifnitely pull plenty of 7's and 8's with a good personality, but the idea hes getting smokin hot chicks cuz of his looks is fuckiin wacked.
Well from quite a good amount of females I know (of various ages) I've heard that he's very good looking... I'll take that as a truth, as I can't really make an adequate evaluation of ther guys looks the way females can..
I like some of his music and def. like him as an actor (I'd say he's still underestimated). Can pull off subtle roles quite well.
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jared leto would not be puling those dimes if he wasnt rich and famous. dudes nose is fucked up looking and he is a twink. could deifnitely pull plenty of 7's and 8's with a good personality, but the idea hes getting smokin hot chicks cuz of his looks is fuckiin wacked.
uhm what? are you kidding? he looks amazing for his age, he looks better than 95% of the 20 year old americans you see on the street and pulling a 9-10s isn't that hard and doesn't require money just confidence and decent looks.
also women don't find muscular guys attractive, ask any of them and they will prefer a thin twink to a bloofy half balding bodybuilder with fucked up skin from too much aas.
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u actually think one person living at the age of 40 disproves a theory? have you ever attended college? think about that statment, there are people who eat glass and are 85 which proves glass enhances longevity.
yes, it sure does. maybe not conclusively but it does. secondly eating glass is irrelevant and comparing apples to oranges. if you were stating that eating glass is fatal as a fact then that would be a good comparison but as it stands it's a poor analogy.
jared leto hasn't aged in 20 years, he even looks younger than a lot of people in their 20's and it's all due to a high fructose, and glucose diet.
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uhm what? are you kidding? he looks amazing for his age, he looks better than 95% of the 20 year old americans you see on the street and pulling a 9-10s isn't that hard and doesn't require money just confidence and decent looks.
also women don't find muscular guys attractive, ask any of them and they will prefer a thin twink to a bloofy half balding bodybuilder with fucked up skin from too much aas.
oh brother, here we go again. Put this build next to Leto and let's see who gets more chicks
(http://crossfitbattlefield.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2008-08-08-Arnold_Schwarzenegger.jpg)
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jared leto would not be puling those dimes if he wasnt rich and famous. dudes nose is fucked up looking and he is a twink. could deifnitely pull plenty of 7's and 8's with a good personality, but the idea hes getting smokin hot chicks cuz of his looks is fuckiin wacked.
Jared Leto's nose is too small to be considered handsome which makes him an ugly fuck he looks like a girl. Look.. you can have the prettiest face in the world I have said it a million times, but you need a masculine nose or you will never get respect in this world. Which sucks for a guy like you who has otherwise perfect features, but was unfortunately born with an upturned nose of a 12 year old who hasn't hit puberty. Nothing wrong with it, you look like Matt Damon. But at the same time Matt Damon looks like a pretty boy pussy. Which works for 18 years old I suppose, but will he ever have that "character" of a Gunter? Fuck no!
btw No I dont mean a nose like Johnnynoname thats a ugly nose, I mean a nose like myself and Gunter=STUDLY
big nose= high testosterone..it's universally attractive to every woman just like large jaws, thick eyebrows, broad shoulders, and big muscles.
gunter
(http://www.criticalbench.com/images/bodybuilders/GunterSchlierkamp.jpg)
bradley cooper
(http://media.photobucket.com/image/bradley%20cooper%20nose/MustangPrep27/BradleyCooper1.jpg)
hugh jackman
(http://actor-pics.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/14/2011/08/06/13/Hugh_Jackman_368.jpg)
Matarazzo
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/55/150885125_b8a3e599f5.jpg)
rest my case friend
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i didnt gloss over the part, you are not interpreting what they said correctly, read
in what individuals was the effect found in? which group was the effect of fructose not found in? there is the answer right there, the paper is shit imo.
I am not interpreting anything incorrectly. The paper clearly states that fructose regulates blood sugar in diabetics by increasing glucokinase activity. The effect was not found in non-diabetics because they have perfectly functional glucokinase. It's right there for you to read.
i have already posted several
You haven't posted one, let alone several.
i can post new ones however, we were not arguing fruit that is moving the goalposts, different fruits as ive already outlined have numerous constituents which cloud the argument, no type of fruit is the same, i stated that fructose is a metabolic poison since in your opening post you claimed it was a healthy sugar with numerous benefits.
Fructose has never been demonstrated to raise plasma triglycerides per se in humans. Ever. I want to see a double-blind, placebo controlled study where, when controlled for calories, a person on a 100% fructose diet showing greater levels of plasma triglycerides and their metabolites than a person on a diet of 100% glucose, or 100% protein or 100% fat. This is the only way to know. Until then, you are shooting straws. And I think it's funny you consider caffeine, something that hasn't any nutritional qualities, a "food" but regard fructose as a poison.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2011 Aug;94(2):479-85. Epub 2011 Jun 15.
Low to moderate sugar-sweetened beverage consumption impairs glucose and lipid metabolism and promotes inflammation in healthy young men: a randomized controlled trial.
Aeberli I, Gerber PA, Hochuli M, Kohler S, Haile SR, Gouni-Berthold I, Berthold HK, Spinas GA, Berneis K.
Source
Division of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Clinical Nutrition, University Hospital Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland.
Abstract
Background: Sugar-sweetened beverages (SSBs) have unfavorable effects on glucose and lipid metabolism if consumed in high quantities by obese subjects, but the effect of lower doses in normal-weight subjects is less clear. OBJECTIVE: The aim was to investigate the effects of SSBs consumed in small to moderate quantities for 3 wk on LDL particle distribution and on other parameters of glucose and lipid metabolism as well as on inflammatory markers in healthy young men. Design: Twenty-nine subjects were studied in a prospective, randomized, controlled crossover trial. Six 3-wk interventions were assigned in random order as follows: 600 mL SSBs containing 1)40 g fructose/d [medium fructose (MF)], 2) 80 g fructose/d [high fructose (HF)], 3) 40 g glucose/d [medium glucose (MG)], 4) 80 g glucose/d [high glucose (HG)], 5) 80 g sucrose/d [high sucrose (HS)], or 6) dietary advice to consume low amounts of fructose. Outcome parameters were measured at baseline and after each intervention. Results: LDL particle size was reduced after HF by -0.51 nm (95% CI: -0.19, -0.82 nm) and after HS by -0.43 nm (95% CI: -0.12, -0.74; P < 0.05 for both). Similarly, a more atherogenic LDL subclass distribution was seen when fructose-containing SSBs were consumed (MF, HF, and HS: P < 0.05). Fasting glucose and high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hs-CRP) increased significantly after all interventions (by 4-9% and 60-109%, respectively; P < 0.05); leptin increased during interventions with SSBs containing glucose only (MG and HG: P < 0.05). CONCLUSION: The present data show potentially harmful effects of low to moderate consumption of SSBs on markers of cardiovascular risk such as LDL particles, fasting glucose, and hs-CRP within just 3 wk in healthy young men, which is of particular significance for young consumers. This trial was registered at clinicaltrials.gov as NCT01021969
This study was not controlled for calories, and there were still significant amounts of other monosaccharides on all control groups. Worthless.
here is a review
Lipids Health Dis. 2011 Jan 24;10:20.
Fructose impairs glucose-induced hepatic triglyceride synthesis.
Huang D, Dhawan T, Young S, Yong WH, Boros LG, Heaney AP.
Source
Department of Medicine, David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, Los Angeles, CA 90095, USA.
Abstract
Obesity, type 2 diabetes and hyperlipidemia frequently coexist and are associated with significantly increased morbidity and mortality. Consumption of refined carbohydrate and particularly fructose has increased significantly in recent years and has paralled the increased incidence of obesity and diabetes. Human and animal studies have demonstrated that high dietary fructose intake positively correlates with increased dyslipidemia, insulin resistance, and hypertension. Metabolism of fructose occurs primarily in the liver and high fructose flux leads to enhanced hepatic triglyceride accumulation (hepatic steatosis). This results in impaired glucose and lipid metabolism and increased proinflammatory cytokine expression. Here we demonstrate that fructose alters glucose-stimulated expression of activated acetyl CoA carboxylase (ACC), pSer hormone sensitive lipase (pSerHSL) and adipose triglyceride lipase (ATGL) in hepatic HepG2 or primary hepatic cell cultures in vitro. This was associated with increased de novo triglyceride synthesis in vitro and hepatic steatosis in vivo in fructose- versus glucose-fed and standard-diet fed mice. These studies provide novel insight into the mechanisms involved in fructose-mediated hepatic hypertriglyceridemia and identify fructose-uptake as a new potential therapeutic target for lipid-associated diseases.
J Am Soc Nephrol. 2010 Dec;21(12):2036-9. Epub 2010 Nov 29.
The effect of fructose on renal biology and disease.
Johnson RJ, Sanchez-Lozada LG, Nakagawa T.
Source
Division of Renal Diseases and Hypertension, University of Colorado, Aurora, Colorado 80045, USA. richard.johnson@ucdenver.edu
Abstract
Dietary fructose intake is increasing. It is increasing primarily from added sugars, including sucrose and high fructose corn syrup, and correlates epidemiologically with the rising prevalence of metabolic syndrome and hypertension worldwide. The administration of fructose to animals and humans increases BP and the development of metabolic syndrome. These changes occur independently of caloric intake because of the effect of fructose on ATP depletion and uric acid generation. Fructose ingestion may also be a risk factor for kidney disease that includes glomerular hypertension, renal inflammation, and tubulointerstitial injury in animals. We suggest excessive fructose intake should be considered an environmental toxin with major health implications.
I am still waiting for a cause-and-effect link fructose where it is not combined with glucose and where the studies are controlled for calories. Suppose you put two guys on two different diets, one with 1,000 calories and the other with 3,000. On the first diet, the guy eats 100 grams of fructose and on the other diet, the guy eats 200 grams. Then you take blood samples that demonstrate that the guy on the second diet shows greater plasma triglycerides than on the first diet and you attribute it to the fructose. He is eating more fructose on diet 2 and has higher levels of plasma triglycerides, but he is also consuming a lot more of other monosaccharides, fatty acids and amino acids. How can you attribute it to the fructose? You can't. You need to control for not only monosaccharide type, but also for calories.
i still think fruit is good but fructose has nothing to do with it in the slightest.
Fructose may or may not cause increased plasma glycerols than glucose, amino acids or fatty acids. I will agree when I see a study, controlled for calories and nutritional substrate, that demonstrates a cause-and-effect relationship between fructose being more liopenic than other nutritional substrates. However in small amounts fructose actually seems to decrease plasma glucose levels like the studies I posted proves.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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yes, it sure does. maybe not conclusively but it does. secondly eating glass is irrelevant and comparing apples to oranges. if you were stating that eating glass is fatal as a fact then that would be a good comparison but as it stands it's a poor analogy.
jared leto hasn't aged in 20 years, he even looks younger than a lot of people in their 20's and it's all due to a high fructose, and glucose diet.
what? maybe its his genetics, maybe he eats a calorie restricted diet, perhaps he takes mega doses of vitamins, perhaps he takes care of his skin with spa treatments and moisturizers, you have no idea if eating a vegan diet has an effect on looking younger. The reason being there are people who eat like jared but look terrible so we have two truths here if we attribute his looks solely to his diet, it makes people look good and then at the same time look terrible as there is ample examples of vegetarians that look like shit warmed over.
my analogy stands and you are making a clear logical fallacy.
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I am not interpreting anything incorrectly. The paper clearly states that fructose regulates blood sugar in diabetics by increasing glucokinase activity. The effect was not found in non-diabetics because they have perfectly functional glucokinase. It's right there for you to read.
You haven't posted one, let alone several.
Fructose has never been demonstrated to raise plasma triglycerides per se in humans. Ever. I want to see a double-blind, placebo controlled study where, when controlled for calories, a person on a 100% fructose diet showing greater levels of plasma triglycerides and their metabolites than a person on a diet of 100% glucose, or 100% protein or 100% fat. This is the only way to know. Until then, you are shooting straws. And I think it's funny you consider caffeine, something that hasn't any nutritional qualities, a "food" but regard fructose as a poison.
This study was not controlled for calories, and there were still significant amounts of other monosaccharides on all control groups. Worthless.
here is a review
I am still waiting for a cause-and-effect link fructose where it is not combined with glucose and where the studies are controlled for calories. Suppose you put two guys on two different diets, one with 1,000 calories and the other with 3,000. On the first diet, the guy eats 100 grams of fructose and on the other diet, the guy eats 200 grams. Then you take blood samples that demonstrate that the guy on the second diet shows greater plasma triglycerides than on the first diet and you attribute it to the fructose. He is eating more fructose on diet 2 and has higher levels of plasma triglycerides, but he is also consuming a lot more of other monosaccharides, fatty acids and amino acids. How can you attribute it to the fructose? You can't. You need to control for not only monosaccharide type, but also for calories.
Fructose may or may not cause increased plasma glycerols than glucose, amino acids or fatty acids. I will agree when I see a study, controlled for calories and nutritional substrate, that demonstrates a cause-and-effect relationship between fructose being more liopenic than other nutritional substrates. However in small amounts fructose actually seems to decrease plasma glucose levels like the studies I posted proves.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
your first sentence indicates what im stating you claimed that fructose improves glucose utilization via increasing GK activity. However, the paper you posted doesn't state this, it clearly shows that only the people with already fucked up glucose utilization benefit from the primed GK activity, not healthy people, hence your argument makes no sense. Using an ill population to show the health benefits of something is ridiculous, it would be like showing exogenous insulin improves quality of life when comparing type 1 diabetics to healthy controls, those extrapolations are meaningless.
dude are you even reading the studies?
"This study was not controlled for calories, and there were still significant amounts of other monosaccharides on all control groups. Worthless."
no theres not, read the study again.
"Fructose has never been demonstrated to raise plasma triglycerides per se in humans. Ever. I want to see a double-blind, placebo controlled study where, when controlled for calories, a person on a 100% fructose diet showing greater levels of plasma triglycerides and their metabolites than a person on a diet of 100% glucose, or 100% protein or 100% fat. This is the only way to know. Until then, you are shooting straws. And I think it's funny you consider caffeine, something that hasn't any nutritional qualities, a "food" but regard fructose as a poison."
this is ridiculous, nobody would survive on a 100% fructose diet, it doesnt occur so why would you request it to be studied? What makes way more sense and what has been done is have people follow normal diets but supplement with higher fructose to have the study obtain generalisability something your design fails to do. that is not the only way to know, what you are suggesting would be wrought with confounding variables, the people would be deficient in nutrients, fatty acids, proteins etc, why would you chalk there plasma triglycerides up to the fructose and not the malnutrition? its silly.
"Fructose may or may not cause increased plasma glycerols than glucose, amino acids or fatty acids. I will agree when I see a study, controlled for calories and nutritional substrate, that demonstrates a cause-and-effect relationship between fructose being more liopenic than other nutritional substrates. However in small amounts fructose actually seems to decrease plasma glucose levels like the studies I posted proves."
the scientific community agrees with that review, im not sure what liopenic means so you will have to elaborate on that as i don't think its an actual term so im not sure what you are getting at. Your studies were in individuals that were sick with a disease that makes glucose regulation abnormal, hardly evidence that fructose lowers plasma glucose in healthy people, in fact it was shown not to via your own study.
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i just went back and looked at the study you presented it was a review where they took data from studies on overweight and obese patients with various diets and extrapolated the results, it also contradicts the last study you posted if you actually read it. It doesnt even say what normal fructose intake is, they just claim it. i cant see the full paper so perhaps you could post the introduction which should have that info, and the methods and materials.
J Clin Invest. 2009 May;119(5):1322-34. doi: 10.1172/JCI37385. Epub 2009 Apr 20.
Consuming fructose-sweetened, not glucose-sweetened, beverages increases visceral adiposity and lipids and decreases insulin sensitivity in overweight/obese humans.
Stanhope KL, Schwarz JM, Keim NL, Griffen SC, Bremer AA, Graham JL, Hatcher B, Cox CL, Dyachenko A, Zhang W, McGahan JP, Seibert A, Krauss RM, Chiu S, Schaefer EJ, Ai M, Otokozawa S, Nakajima K, Nakano T, Beysen C, Hellerstein MK, Berglund L, Havel PJ.
Source
Department of Molecular Biosciences, UCD, Davis, California 95616, USA.
Abstract
Studies in animals have documented that, compared with glucose, dietary fructose induces dyslipidemia and insulin resistance. To assess the relative effects of these dietary sugars during sustained consumption in humans, overweight and obese subjects consumed glucose- or fructose-sweetened beverages providing 25% of energy requirements for 10 weeks. Although both groups exhibited similar weight gain during the intervention, visceral adipose volume was significantly increased only in subjects consuming fructose. Fasting plasma triglyceride concentrations increased by approximately 10% during 10 weeks of glucose consumption but not after fructose consumption. In contrast, hepatic de novo lipogenesis (DNL) and the 23-hour postprandial triglyceride AUC were increased specifically during fructose consumption. Similarly, markers of altered lipid metabolism and lipoprotein remodeling, including fasting apoB, LDL, small dense LDL, oxidized LDL, and postprandial concentrations of remnant-like particle-triglyceride and -cholesterol significantly increased during fructose but not glucose consumption. In addition, fasting plasma glucose and insulin levels increased and insulin sensitivity decreased in subjects consuming fructose but not in those consuming glucose. These data suggest that dietary fructose specifically increases DNL, promotes dyslipidemia, decreases insulin sensitivity, and increases visceral adiposity in overweight/obese adults.
this study is the exact same.
Br J Nutr. 2008 Nov;100(5):947-52.
Consumption of fructose-sweetened beverages for 10 weeks increases postprandial triacylglycerol and apolipoprotein-B concentrations in overweight and obese women.
Swarbrick MM, Stanhope KL, Elliott SS, Graham JL, Krauss RM, Christiansen MP, Griffen SC, Keim NL, Havel PJ.
Source
Department of Nutrition, University of California, Davis, CA 95616, USA.
Abstract
Fructose consumption in the USA has increased over the past three decades. During this time, obesity, insulin resistance and the metabolic syndrome have also increased in prevalence. While diets high in fructose have been shown to promote insulin resistance and increase TAG concentrations in animals, there are insufficient data available regarding the long-term metabolic effects of fructose consumption in humans. The objective of the present study was to investigate the metabolic effects of 10-week consumption of fructose-sweetened beverages in human subjects under energy-balanced conditions in a controlled research setting. Following a 4-week weight-maintaining complex carbohydrate diet, seven overweight or obese (BMI 26.8-33.3 kg/m2) postmenopausal women were fed an isoenergetic intervention diet, which included a fructose-sweetened beverage with each meal, for 10 weeks. The intervention diet provided 15 % of energy from protein, 30 % from fat and 55 % from carbohydrate (30 % complex carbohydrate, 25 % fructose). Fasting and postprandial glucose, insulin, TAG and apoB concentrations were measured. Fructose consumption increased fasting glucose concentrations and decreased meal-associated glucose and insulin responses (P = 0.0002, P = 0.007 and P = 0.013, respectively). Moreover, after 10 weeks of fructose consumption, 14 h postprandial TAG profiles were significantly increased, with the area under the curve at 10 weeks being 141 % higher than at baseline (P = 0.04). Fructose also increased fasting apoB concentrations by 19 % (P = 0.043 v. baseline). In summary, consumption of fructose-sweetened beverages increased postprandial TAG and fasting apoB concentrations, and the present results suggest that long-term consumption of diets high in fructose could lead to an increased risk of CVD.
thats like 10 studies ive posted that have shown a negative effect, compared to your cohort study and one with people that already have mucked up glucose utilization.
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your first sentence indicates what im stating you claimed that fructose improves glucose utilization via increasing GK activity. However, the paper you posted doesn't state this, it clearly shows that only the people with already fucked up glucose utilization benefit from the primed GK activity, not healthy people, hence your argument makes no sense. Using an ill population to show the health benefits of something is ridiculous, it would be like showing exogenous insulin improves quality of life when comparing type 1 diabetics to healthy controls, those extrapolations are meaningless.
dude are you even reading the studies?
My point stands: fructose in small amounts improves glucose utilization, even if only in diabetic patients. Is there evidence that it induces insulin resistence per se to a greater degree than glucose or other nutritional substrates? No.
no theres not, read the study again.
80% fructose still means that 20% of calories come from other sources.
this is ridiculous, nobody would survive on a 100% fructose diet, it doesnt occur so why would you request it to be studied? What makes way more sense and what has been done is have people follow normal diets but supplement with higher fructose to have the study obtain generalisability something your design fails to do. that is not the only way to know, what you are suggesting would be wrought with confounding variables, the people would be deficient in nutrients, fatty acids, proteins etc, why would you chalk there plasma triglycerides up to the fructose and not the malnutrition? its silly.
Because it is the only way to determine if fructose per se increases plasma triglycerides and induces insulin resistence. This is called the scientific method, where you control for extrinsic variables to establish a cause-and-effect link between cause A and effect B. I was never suggesting a 100% fructose diet. Get real, dude.
the scientific community agrees with that review, im not sure what liopenic means so you will have to elaborate on that as i don't think its an actual term so im not sure what you are getting at. Your studies were in individuals that were sick with a disease that makes glucose regulation abnormal, hardly evidence that fructose lowers plasma glucose in healthy people, in fact it was shown not to via your own study.
Lipogenic = fat forming. Anyways, fructose doesen't regulate glucokinase in healthy individuals because it doesen't need to. Does it seem likely that a substrate that causes increased insulin resistence and diabetes would ameliorate hyperglycemia in diabetics? Can't you see your flawed logic?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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what? maybe its his genetics, maybe he eats a calorie restricted diet, perhaps he takes mega doses of vitamins, perhaps he takes care of his skin with spa treatments and moisturizers, you have no idea if eating a vegan diet has an effect on looking younger. The reason being there are people who eat like jared but look terrible so we have two truths here if we attribute his looks solely to his diet, it makes people look good and then at the same time look terrible as there is ample examples of vegetarians that look like shit warmed over.
my analogy stands and you are making a clear logical fallacy.
its merely conjecture which is about as much conclusive evidence you have proving that eating fruit and fructose will age the body. if that is a logical fallacy then so is everything you've posted.
truthfully though, it really was a terrible and extraneous analogy
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oh brother, here we go again. Put this build next to Leto and let's see who gets more chicks
(http://crossfitbattlefield.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2008-08-08-Arnold_Schwarzenegger.jpg)
Sadly Leto would get more pussy than Arnold in his prime!
I hope this help! ;)
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Sadly Leto would get more pussy than Arnold in his prime!
I hope this help! ;)
Arnold was a fucken god
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Arnold was a fucken god
That doesen't change the fact that Arnold would get a fraction of the pussy of Leto!
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Arnold was a fucken god
X 2
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That doesen't change the fact that Arnold would get a fraction of the pussy of Leto!
Someone post a story of how Arnold would pick up chicks to shut this fool up.
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Someone post a story of how Arnold would pick up chicks to shut this fool up.
There is no need to post a story of how Arnold would pick up chicks when you have pics as a proof! ;D
Exibit number 1
(http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlla/files/original/maria%20shriver1.jpg)
Exibit number 2
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/nursetpd/Misc/Arnolds_Mistress__Love_Child.jpg)
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Someone post a story of how Arnold would pick up chicks to shut this fool up.
also how he was a gay boy toy for joe weider and co. for a few years ::)
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I wonder from where "Necrosis" thinks we should get our energy to fuel our physiological processes then. Carbohydrates and especially monosaccharides are the most efficient energy source there is by far. Glucose is the only fuel for the brain under ordinary circumstances and it is the only fuel that can be used instantly by all cells of the body to release energy in a one-step reaction. The only other fuel for the body besides glucose are ketones. So from where should we get our primary fuel from according to "Necrosis"? There are only three options here:
- We get glucose directly from food via carbohydrates.
- We get glucose indirectly by converting protein or fat into glucose by gluconeogenesis in the liver.
- We get ketones by breaking down fat in the liver via ketogenesis.
These are the only three options. There are no other. So since "Necrosis" claims that monosaccharides are poisons, then is he suggesting we should live in a state of constant gluconeogenesis, which puts enormous stress in the liver and generates enormous amounts of ammonia and uric acid, both of which are toxic, as byproducts? Should we cut carbs completely and live on ketones which are even more toxic than ammonia and far less efficient as an energy source than glucose? I would like an honest answer to these questions.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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There is no need to post a story of how Arnold would pick up chicks when you have pics as a proof! ;D
Exibit number 2
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/nursetpd/Misc/Arnolds_Mistress__Love_Child.jpg)
HAHA... ;D
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oh brother, here we go again. Put this build next to Leto and let's see who gets more chicks
(http://crossfitbattlefield.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2008-08-08-Arnold_Schwarzenegger.jpg)
More chicks what? to look at him?
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I wonder from where "Necrosis" thinks we should get our energy to fuel our physiological processes then. Carbohydrates and especially monosaccharides are the most efficient energy source there is by far. Glucose is the only fuel for the brain under ordinary circumstances and it is the only fuel that can be used instantly by all cells of the body to release energy in a one-step reaction. The only other fuel for the body besides glucose are ketones. So from where should we get our primary fuel from according to "Necrosis"? There are only three options here:
- We get glucose directly from food via carbohydrates.
- We get glucose indirectly by converting protein or fat into glucose by gluconeogenesis in the liver.
- We get ketones by breaking down fat in the liver via ketogenesis.
These are the only three options. There are no other. So since "Necrosis" claims that monosaccharides are poisons, then is he suggesting we should live in a state of constant gluconeogenesis, which puts enormous stress in the liver and generates enormous amounts of ammonia and uric acid, both of which are toxic, as byproducts? Should we cut carbs completely and live on ketones which are even more toxic than ammonia and far less efficient as an energy source than glucose? I would like an honest answer to these questions.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Great post.
Really, when you aren't posting things about gorillas or about how you are "in love" with a celebrity, you post plenty of excellent information regarding different topics like the one in this thread.
I don't think "necrosis" will respond to this though.
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(http://www.kurtcobainwallpaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/KURT-COBAIN-10401.jpg)
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My point stands: fructose in small amounts improves glucose utilization, even if only in diabetic patients. Is there evidence that it induces insulin resistence per se to a greater degree than glucose or other nutritional substrates? No.
no it doesn't.
well only in ten type 2 diabetics with no other controls for food, which is one of your issues apparently yet you do not claim this as a flaw in your study. Also, you made no claims about type 2 diabetes, you claimed that fructose lowers hyperglycemic events via GK priming, which is not true as this effect is only seen in type 2 diabetics, of which the study was small and poor. nor does the study prove your claim that fructose dramatically lowers blood glucose levels, in every study in healthy individuals it worsens it, you have yet to show it in healthy people, while i have.
Because it is the only way to determine if fructose per se increases plasma triglycerides and induces insulin resistence. This is called the scientific method, where you control for extrinsic variables to establish a cause-and-effect link between cause A and effect B. I was never suggesting a 100% fructose diet. Get real, dude.
i understand the scientific method, what are you proposing then? there have been double blind placebo controlled cross over trials, im not sure what your issue is with them. You claimed that you wanted to see a study with 100% fructose diet, i took you literally, didnt realize you were using hyperbole.
Lipogenic = fat forming. Anyways, fructose doesen't regulate glucokinase in healthy individuals because it doesen't need to. Does it seem likely that a substrate that causes increased insulin resistence and diabetes would ameliorate hyperglycemia in diabetics? Can't you see your flawed logic?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
i know what lipogenic means, you said liopenic hence my confusion. Intuition is likely to get you no where in medicine, does it seem likely that an autoimmune condition could be treated by things that shut the immune function down (glucocorticoids) yet induce autoimmune issues in others? fructose doesn't improve glucose disposal, all the studies in healthy people show this, all of them, even your study showed it did not improve glucose disposal in healthy subjects. Since when did this argument become about one population of disease, and why would i care if i dont have type 2 diabetes? fructose is a metabolic poison.
i dont know why i have to post study after study to prove my point only to have to argue it again, its right here, its in all the studies ive posted fructose is shit for humans. People with osteoarthritis should avoid solane containing foods, normal people have no problem with them, lactose intolerant people have issues with lactose, other without it do not. If i claimed that lactose causes diarhhea and is bad for health would you accept a study on only lactose intolerant people? no you would not, and that is what you have done while i have posted studies in both populations, studies actually contradict your study and have more statistical power, that study is shit all around.
Br J Nutr. 2008 Nov;100(5):947-52.
Consumption of fructose-sweetened beverages for 10 weeks increases postprandial triacylglycerol and apolipoprotein-B concentrations in overweight and obese women.
Swarbrick MM, Stanhope KL, Elliott SS, Graham JL, Krauss RM, Christiansen MP, Griffen SC, Keim NL, Havel PJ.
Source
Department of Nutrition, University of California, Davis, CA 95616, USA.
Abstract
Fructose consumption in the USA has increased over the past three decades. During this time, obesity, insulin resistance and the metabolic syndrome have also increased in prevalence. While diets high in fructose have been shown to promote insulin resistance and increase TAG concentrations in animals, there are insufficient data available regarding the long-term metabolic effects of fructose consumption in humans. The objective of the present study was to investigate the metabolic effects of 10-week consumption of fructose-sweetened beverages in human subjects under energy-balanced conditions in a controlled research setting. Following a 4-week weight-maintaining complex carbohydrate diet, seven overweight or obese (BMI 26.8-33.3 kg/m2) postmenopausal women were fed an isoenergetic intervention diet, which included a fructose-sweetened beverage with each meal, for 10 weeks. The intervention diet provided 15 % of energy from protein, 30 % from fat and 55 % from carbohydrate (30 % complex carbohydrate, 25 % fructose). Fasting and postprandial glucose, insulin, TAG and apoB concentrations were measured. Fructose consumption increased fasting glucose concentrations and decreased meal-associated glucose and insulin responses (P = 0.0002, P = 0.007 and P = 0.013, respectively). Moreover, after 10 weeks of fructose consumption, 14 h postprandial TAG profiles were significantly increased, with the area under the curve at 10 weeks being 141 % higher than at baseline (P = 0.04). Fructose also increased fasting apoB concentrations by 19 % (P = 0.043 v. baseline). In summary, consumption of fructose-sweetened beverages increased postprandial TAG and fasting apoB concentrations, and the present results suggest that long-term consumption of diets high in fructose could lead to an increased risk of CVD.
HERES MOAR
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2010 Mar;1190:15-24.
Fructose consumption: recent results and their potential implications.
Stanhope KL, Havel PJ.
Source
Department of Molecular Biosciences, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis, California 95616, USA.
Abstract
In addition to acquiring a better understanding of foods that may have intrinsic health benefits, increasing our knowledge of dietary components that may adversely impact health and wellness, and the levels of consumption at which these adverse effects may occur, should also be an important priority for the Foods for Health initiative. This review discusses the evidence that additional research is needed to determine the adverse effects of consuming added sugars containing fructose. Current guidelines recommend limiting sugar consumption in order to prevent weight gain and promote nutritional adequacy. However, recent data suggest that fructose consumption in human results in increased visceral adiposity, lipid dysregulation, and decreased insulin sensitivity, all of which have been associated with increased risk for cardiovascular disease and type 2 diabetes. A proposed model for the differential effects of fructose and glucose is presented. The only published study to directly compare the effects of fructose with those of commonly consumed dietary sweeteners, high fructose corn syrup and sucrose, indicates that high fructose corn syrup and sucrose increase postprandial triglycerides comparably to pure fructose. Dose-response studies investigating the metabolic effects of prolonged consumption of fructose by itself, and in combination with glucose, on lipid metabolism and insulin sensitivity in both normal weight and overweight/obese subjects are needed.
MOAR ON THIS SHIT AFFECTING THE LIVER, it not only induces NAFLD but progresses it if you already have it.
Hepatology. 2010 Jun;51(6):1961-71.
Increased fructose consumption is associated with fibrosis severity in patients with nonalcoholic fatty liver disease.
Abdelmalek MF, Suzuki A, Guy C, Unalp-Arida A, Colvin R, Johnson RJ, Diehl AM; Nonalcoholic Steatohepatitis Clinical Research Network.
Collaborators (111)
Source
Division of Gastroenterology, Duke University, Durham, NC 27710, USA. manal.abdelmalek@duke.edu
Abstract
The rising incidence of obesity and diabetes coincides with a marked increase in fructose consumption. Fructose consumption is higher in individuals with nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) than in age-matched and body mass index (BMI)-matched controls. Because fructose elicits metabolic perturbations that may be hepatotoxic, we investigated the relationship between fructose consumption and disease severity in NAFLD. We studied 427 adults enrolled in the NASH Clinical Research Network for whom Block food questionnaire data were collected within 3 months of a liver biopsy. Fructose consumption was estimated based on reporting (frequency x amount) of Kool-aid, fruit juices, and nondietary soda intake, expressed as servings per week, and classified into none, minimum to moderate (<7 servings/week), and daily (> or =7 servings/week). The association of fructose intake with metabolic and histological features of NAFLD was analyzed using multiple linear and ordinal logistic regression analyses with and without controlling for other confounding factors. Increased fructose consumption was univariately associated with decreased age (P < 0.0001), male sex (P < 0.0001), hypertriglyceridemia (P < 0.04), low high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol (<0.0001), decreased serum glucose (P < 0.001), increased calorie intake (P < 0.0001), and hyperuricemia (P < 0.0001). After controlling for age, sex, BMI, and total calorie intake, daily fructose consumption was associated with lower steatosis grade and higher fibrosis stage (P < 0.05 for each). In older adults (age > or = 48 years), daily fructose consumption was associated with increased hepatic inflammation (P < 0.05) and hepatocyte ballooning (P = 0.05). CONCLUSION: In patients with NAFLD, daily fructose ingestion is associated with reduced hepatic steatosis but increased fibrosis. These results identify a readily modifiable environmental risk factor that may ameliorate disease progression in patients with NAFLD.
Another in HEALHTY INDIVIDUALS
Int J Obes (Lond). 2010 Mar;34(3):454-61. Epub 2009 Dec 22.
Excessive fructose intake induces the features of metabolic syndrome in healthy adult men: role of uric acid in the hypertensive response.
Perez-Pozo SE, Schold J, Nakagawa T, Sánchez-Lozada LG, Johnson RJ, Lillo JL.
Source
Renal Unit, Son Llatzer Hospital-Palm of Majorca, Balearic Islands, Spain. santose.perez@hsll.es
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Excessive fructose intake causes metabolic syndrome in animals and can be partially prevented by lowering the uric acid level. We tested the hypothesis that fructose might induce features of metabolic syndrome in adult men and whether this is protected by allopurinol.
METHODS:
A randomized, controlled trial of 74 adult men who were administered 200 g fructose daily for 2 weeks with or without allopurinol. Primary measures included changes in ambulatory blood pressure (BP), fasting lipids, glucose and insulin, homeostatic model assessment (HOMA) index, body mass index and criteria for metabolic syndrome.
RESULTS:
The ingestion of fructose resulted in an increase in ambulatory BP (7+/-2 and 5+/-2 mm Hg for systolic (SBP) and diastolic BP (DBP), P<0.004 and P<0.007, respectively). Mean fasting triglycerides increased by 0.62+/-0.23 mmol l(-1) (55+/-20 mg per 100 ml), whereas high-density lipoprotein cholesterol decreased by 0.06+/-0.02 mmol l(-1) (2.5+/-0.7 mg per 100 ml), P<0.002 and P<0.001, respectively. Fasting insulin and HOMA indices increased significantly, whereas plasma glucose level did not change. All liver function tests showed an increase in values. The metabolic syndrome increased by 25-33% depending on the criteria. Allopurinol lowered the serum uric acid level (P<0.0001) and prevented the increase in 24-h ambulatory DBP and daytime SBP and DBP. Allopurinol treatment did not reduce HOMA or fasting plasma triglyceride levels, but lowered low-density lipoprotein cholesterol relative to control (P<0.02) and also prevented the increase in newly diagnosed metabolic syndrome (0-2%, P=0.009).
CONCLUSIONS:
High doses of fructose raise the BP and cause the features of metabolic syndrome. Lowering the uric acid level prevents the increase in mean arterial blood pressure. Excessive intake of fructose may have a role in the current epidemics of obesity and diabete
I MEAN I REST MY CASE.
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Great post.
Really, when you aren't posting things about gorillas or about how you are "in love" with a celebrity, you post plenty of excellent information regarding different topics like the one in this thread.
I don't think "necrosis" will respond to this though.
ARE YOU A GIMMICK LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I wonder from where "Necrosis" thinks we should get our energy to fuel our physiological processes then. Carbohydrates and especially monosaccharides are the most efficient energy source there is by far. Glucose is the only fuel for the brain under ordinary circumstances and it is the only fuel that can be used instantly by all cells of the body to release energy in a one-step reaction. The only other fuel for the body besides glucose are ketones. So from where should we get our primary fuel from according to "Necrosis"? There are only three options here:
- We get glucose directly from food via carbohydrates.
- We get glucose indirectly by converting protein or fat into glucose by gluconeogenesis in the liver.
- We get ketones by breaking down fat in the liver via ketogenesis.
These are the only three options. There are no other. So since "Necrosis" claims that monosaccharides are poisons, then is he suggesting we should live in a state of constant gluconeogenesis, which puts enormous stress in the liver and generates enormous amounts of ammonia and uric acid, both of which are toxic, as byproducts? Should we cut carbs completely and live on ketones which are even more toxic than ammonia and far less efficient as an energy source than glucose? I would like an honest answer to these questions.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
LOL epic strawman where did i claim that monosaccharides are poisons? i didn't realize monosaccharides=fructose. Fruit is fine, carbs are fine, glucose is fine, eating a diet high in fructose is not, its not black and white and this epic strawman and putting words in my mouth is childish at best and dishonest when you know the difference.
gluconeogenesis and glycolysis are constantly in action, they do not put enormous stress on the liver, Uric acid is a by-product of purine metabolism so you clearly don't have a solid understanding of gluconeogenesis as it is an endergonic action. Uric acid is not the by-product of gluconeogenesis (it is much more prominent in protein metabolism) and in fact high sugar diets increase uric acid.
GUESS what
^ Cirillo P, Sato W, Reungjui S, et al. (December 2006). "Uric acid, the metabolic syndrome, and renal disease". J. Am. Soc. Nephrol. 17 (12 Suppl 3): S165–8.
this paper already presented by me which you clearly didnt look at shows that fructose induces high levels of uric acid and increases gout occurence and severity. So if you are concerned about gout, and uric acid and renal health pehaps you should follow your advice.
Then you make my position seem as if i said carbohydrates are bad here.
"Should we cut carbs completely and live on ketones which are even more toxic than ammonia and far less efficient as an energy source than glucose? I would like an honest answer to these questions."
which is another strawman and something one would use when losing the argument, which is clear you are. Basically you are stating that i claim monosaccharides are bad because fructose is not healthy, then you make a more grandious claim that the only option is to avoid carbs all together. Fructose is fine to consume in mild to moderate doses ive said this over and over, eating only fruit is not good and claiming that fructose dramatically lowers blood glucose levels is false, flat out false.
Im such a fucking boss though aren't i? come on admit it im sexy as all hell
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Jared Leto's nose is too small to be considered handsome which makes him an ugly fuck he looks like a girl. Look.. you can have the prettiest face in the world I have said it a million times, but you need a masculine nose or you will never get respect in this world. Which sucks for a guy like you who has otherwise perfect features, but was unfortunately born with an upturned nose of a 12 year old who hasn't hit puberty. Nothing wrong with it, you look like Matt Damon. But at the same time Matt Damon looks like a pretty boy pussy. Which works for 18 years old I suppose, but will he ever have that "character" of a Gunter? Fuck no!
btw No I dont mean a nose like Johnnynoname thats a ugly nose, I mean a nose like myself and Gunter=STUDLY
big nose= high testosterone..it's universally attractive to every woman just like large jaws, thick eyebrows, broad shoulders, and big muscles.
you are exaggerating a bit. some women really do like more effeminate looking guys, in addition to liking masculin looking guys. pretty boys get tons of ass as long as they have a personality. when you look like me, like a "pretty boy pussy" (lmao), its much more straight guys who have the negative attitude towards it. females arent as concerned with men appearing "hard" as much as you might think. they do, just not to the extent which guys do. you wont find the average bloke hanging out with pretty boys cuz he thinks their fa g g ish, but most women actually really like pretty boys. like jared leto, his nose is really ugly to me and you... to most women.. eh.. not that bad. just not optimal. and hes still good looking. so he can easily pull 7's and 8's with a good p[ersonality even if he was dirt poor and nobody knew him.
my nose is on the border line. its just very slightly upturned, and theres no upwards curvature to the brim of it, unlike leto's. the ski slope nose is the worst. lol.
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Bump for later
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I find it interesting that there is one supplement company, Healthy 'N Fit, that uses Fructose as a sugar source in their products.
I do not use their products, but have known a couple of people that swear by them, specifically their Muscular Weight Gain product.
Years ago, Rheo Blair had a special protein that he made (never released to public) that was called the High Fructose Protein, that was meant to be a weight gainer, that was allegedly a favorite of Frank Zane.
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I find it interesting that there is one supplement company, Healthy 'N Fit, that uses Fructose as a sugar source in their products.
I do not use their products, but have known a couple of people that swear by them, specifically their Muscular Weight Gain product.
Years ago, Rheo Blair had a special protein that he made (never released to public) that was called the High Fructose Protein, that was meant to be a weight gainer, that was allegedly a favorite of Frank Zane.
oh you will gain weight, you see fructose is only utilized by the liver via the glut5 receptor, unlike glucose which is utilized by the liver/muscle via glut 4. Once liver glycogen is full excess fructose is shunted towards lipogenesis/fat storage.
fructose would be good in the morning as liver glycogen is depleted or when on low carb diets to keep the body in a fed state, sparring muscle glycogen.
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Because it is the only way to determine if fructose per se increases plasma triglycerides and induces insulin resistence. This is called the scientific method, where you control for extrinsic variables to establish a cause-and-effect link between cause A and effect B. I was never suggesting a 100% fructose diet. Get real, dude.
you did ask for a 100% fructose diet here just for the record. This is a beating sucky, come hither. I do enjoy a good debate with you though.
" I want to see a double-blind, placebo controlled study where, when controlled for calories, a person on a 100% fructose diet showing greater levels of plasma triglycerides and their metabolites than a person on a diet of 100% glucose, or 100% protein or 100% fat."
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no it doesn't.
well only in ten type 2 diabetics with no other controls for food, which is one of your issues apparently yet you do not claim this as a flaw in your study.
Controls are not needed in this case because one diet did not contain glucose at all, hence any change in blood glucose profile could only possibly be caused by the fructose. Controls are needed when the proportions of nutritional susbstrates in different studies are both in different proportions, but not when one of the substrates is equal as in this case as the variations can only be explained by changes in the other substrate.
Also, you made no claims about type 2 diabetes, you claimed that fructose lowers hyperglycemic events via GK priming, which is not true as this effect is only seen in type 2 diabetics, of which the study was small and poor. nor does the study prove your claim that fructose dramatically lowers blood glucose levels, in every study in healthy individuals it worsens it, you have yet to show it in healthy people, while i have.
Does it seem like a substance that improves blood sugar in diabetics would indude insulin resistence, genius? And of course I cna use diabetics since they are far more sensitive to alterations in blood glucose levels than non-diabetics.
i understand the scientific method, what are you proposing then? there have been double blind placebo controlled cross over trials, im not sure what your issue is with them. You claimed that you wanted to see a study with 100% fructose diet, i took you literally, didnt realize you were using hyperbole.
I am still waiting for a study where controls are placed for all nutritional substrates in humans.
i know what lipogenic means, you said liopenic hence my confusion. Intuition is likely to get you no where in medicine, does it seem likely that an autoimmune condition could be treated by things that shut the immune function down (glucocorticoids) yet induce autoimmune issues in others? fructose doesn't improve glucose disposal, all the studies in healthy people show this, all of them, even your study showed it did not improve glucose disposal in healthy subjects. Since when did this argument become about one population of disease, and why would i care if i dont have type 2 diabetes? fructose is a metabolic poison.
Diabetics are better to determine the effects of fructose in blood glucose levels as they have compromised glucose-processing ability, hence variations in their blood glucose levels occur more dramatically than a normal subject which would allow you to detect the effects of particular monosaccharides like glucose and fructose more accurately. All the studies you posted, massive amounts of calories were consumed. In the controls where more fructose was utilized, more calories were also eaten. Then how can you attribute this to the fructose? You need to control for calories, then all other nutritional substrates to see the paricular effect of fructose.
i dont know why i have to post study after study to prove my point only to have to argue it again, its right here, its in all the studies ive posted fructose is shit for humans. People with osteoarthritis should avoid solane containing foods, normal people have no problem with them, lactose intolerant people have issues with lactose, other without it do not. If i claimed that lactose causes diarhhea and is bad for health would you accept a study on only lactose intolerant people? no you would not, and that is what you have done while i have posted studies in both populations, studies actually contradict your study and have more statistical power, that study is shit all around.
This analogy is terrible. So you are saying that fructose is to normal people like lactose is to people with lactose intolerance, but diabetics somehow are immune to the deleterious health effects of fructose? I am sorry, but if I understood correctly, your point is ridiculous unless you post any evidence of it.
Br J Nutr. 2008 Nov;100(5):947-52.
Consumption of fructose-sweetened beverages for 10 weeks increases postprandial triacylglycerol and apolipoprotein-B concentrations in overweight and obese women.
Swarbrick MM, Stanhope KL, Elliott SS, Graham JL, Krauss RM, Christiansen MP, Griffen SC, Keim NL, Havel PJ.
Source
Department of Nutrition, University of California, Davis, CA 95616, USA.
Abstract
Fructose consumption in the USA has increased over the past three decades. During this time, obesity, insulin resistance and the metabolic syndrome have also increased in prevalence. While diets high in fructose have been shown to promote insulin resistance and increase TAG concentrations in animals, there are insufficient data available regarding the long-term metabolic effects of fructose consumption in humans. The objective of the present study was to investigate the metabolic effects of 10-week consumption of fructose-sweetened beverages in human subjects under energy-balanced conditions in a controlled research setting. Following a 4-week weight-maintaining complex carbohydrate diet, seven overweight or obese (BMI 26.8-33.3 kg/m2) postmenopausal women were fed an isoenergetic intervention diet, which included a fructose-sweetened beverage with each meal, for 10 weeks. The intervention diet provided 15 % of energy from protein, 30 % from fat and 55 % from carbohydrate (30 % complex carbohydrate, 25 % fructose). Fasting and postprandial glucose, insulin, TAG and apoB concentrations were measured. Fructose consumption increased fasting glucose concentrations and decreased meal-associated glucose and insulin responses (P = 0.0002, P = 0.007 and P = 0.013, respectively). Moreover, after 10 weeks of fructose consumption, 14 h postprandial TAG profiles were significantly increased, with the area under the curve at 10 weeks being 141 % higher than at baseline (P = 0.04). Fructose also increased fasting apoB concentrations by 19 % (P = 0.043 v. baseline). In summary, consumption of fructose-sweetened beverages increased postprandial TAG and fasting apoB concentrations, and the present results suggest that long-term consumption of diets high in fructose could lead to an increased risk of CVD.
Was this study controlled for what they were eating before the study? Because since all control groups were fed the same diet, then the increase in plasma triglycerides means nothing as you are comparing "X" to "X". They could have been eating more fructose before the study and the increase in plasma glycerols came concomitant to a decrease in fructose ingestion. This study is worthless.
HERES MOAR
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2010 Mar;1190:15-24.
Fructose consumption: recent results and their potential implications.
Stanhope KL, Havel PJ.
Source
Department of Molecular Biosciences, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis, California 95616, USA.
Abstract
In addition to acquiring a better understanding of foods that may have intrinsic health benefits, increasing our knowledge of dietary components that may adversely impact health and wellness, and the levels of consumption at which these adverse effects may occur, should also be an important priority for the Foods for Health initiative. This review discusses the evidence that additional research is needed to determine the adverse effects of consuming added sugars containing fructose. Current guidelines recommend limiting sugar consumption in order to prevent weight gain and promote nutritional adequacy. However, recent data suggest that fructose consumption in human results in increased visceral adiposity, lipid dysregulation, and decreased insulin sensitivity, all of which have been associated with increased risk for cardiovascular disease and type 2 diabetes. A proposed model for the differential effects of fructose and glucose is presented. The only published study to directly compare the effects of fructose with those of commonly consumed dietary sweeteners, high fructose corn syrup and sucrose, indicates that high fructose corn syrup and sucrose increase postprandial triglycerides comparably to pure fructose. Dose-response studies investigating the metabolic effects of prolonged consumption of fructose by itself, and in combination with glucose, on lipid metabolism and insulin sensitivity in both normal weight and overweight/obese subjects are needed.
This states flat out what I have been saying: high-fructose corn syrup, which is fructose/glucose seems to wosen more blood lipd profile than fructose alone. So what have this proven besides that I am right?
MOAR ON THIS SHIT AFFECTING THE LIVER, it not only induces NAFLD but progresses it if you already have it.
Hepatology. 2010 Jun;51(6):1961-71.
Increased fructose consumption is associated with fibrosis severity in patients with nonalcoholic fatty liver disease.
Abdelmalek MF, Suzuki A, Guy C, Unalp-Arida A, Colvin R, Johnson RJ, Diehl AM; Nonalcoholic Steatohepatitis Clinical Research Network.
Collaborators (111)
Source
Division of Gastroenterology, Duke University, Durham, NC 27710, USA. manal.abdelmalek@duke.edu
Abstract
The rising incidence of obesity and diabetes coincides with a marked increase in fructose consumption. Fructose consumption is higher in individuals with nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) than in age-matched and body mass index (BMI)-matched controls. Because fructose elicits metabolic perturbations that may be hepatotoxic, we investigated the relationship between fructose consumption and disease severity in NAFLD. We studied 427 adults enrolled in the NASH Clinical Research Network for whom Block food questionnaire data were collected within 3 months of a liver biopsy. Fructose consumption was estimated based on reporting (frequency x amount) of Kool-aid, fruit juices, and nondietary soda intake, expressed as servings per week, and classified into none, minimum to moderate (<7 servings/week), and daily (> or =7 servings/week). The association of fructose intake with metabolic and histological features of NAFLD was analyzed using multiple linear and ordinal logistic regression analyses with and without controlling for other confounding factors. Increased fructose consumption was univariately associated with decreased age (P < 0.0001), male sex (P < 0.0001), hypertriglyceridemia (P < 0.04), low high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol (<0.0001), decreased serum glucose (P < 0.001), increased calorie intake (P < 0.0001), and hyperuricemia (P < 0.0001). After controlling for age, sex, BMI, and total calorie intake, daily fructose consumption was associated with lower steatosis grade and higher fibrosis stage (P < 0.05 for each). In older adults (age > or = 48 years), daily fructose consumption was associated with increased hepatic inflammation (P < 0.05) and hepatocyte ballooning (P = 0.05). CONCLUSION: In patients with NAFLD, daily fructose ingestion is associated with reduced hepatic steatosis but increased fibrosis. These results identify a readily modifiable environmental risk factor that may ameliorate disease progression in patients with NAFLD.
Controlled for age, sex and total caloric intake, but not for all other nutritional substrates in a diet such as protein and fat.
Another in HEALHTY INDIVIDUALS
Int J Obes (Lond). 2010 Mar;34(3):454-61. Epub 2009 Dec 22.
Excessive fructose intake induces the features of metabolic syndrome in healthy adult men: role of uric acid in the hypertensive response.
Perez-Pozo SE, Schold J, Nakagawa T, Sánchez-Lozada LG, Johnson RJ, Lillo JL.
Source
Renal Unit, Son Llatzer Hospital-Palm of Majorca, Balearic Islands, Spain. santose.perez@hsll.es
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Excessive fructose intake causes metabolic syndrome in animals and can be partially prevented by lowering the uric acid level. We tested the hypothesis that fructose might induce features of metabolic syndrome in adult men and whether this is protected by allopurinol.
METHODS:
A randomized, controlled trial of 74 adult men who were administered 200 g fructose daily for 2 weeks with or without allopurinol. Primary measures included changes in ambulatory blood pressure (BP), fasting lipids, glucose and insulin, homeostatic model assessment (HOMA) index, body mass index and criteria for metabolic syndrome.
RESULTS:
The ingestion of fructose resulted in an increase in ambulatory BP (7+/-2 and 5+/-2 mm Hg for systolic (SBP) and diastolic BP (DBP), P<0.004 and P<0.007, respectively). Mean fasting triglycerides increased by 0.62+/-0.23 mmol l(-1) (55+/-20 mg per 100 ml), whereas high-density lipoprotein cholesterol decreased by 0.06+/-0.02 mmol l(-1) (2.5+/-0.7 mg per 100 ml), P<0.002 and P<0.001, respectively. Fasting insulin and HOMA indices increased significantly, whereas plasma glucose level did not change. All liver function tests showed an increase in values. The metabolic syndrome increased by 25-33% depending on the criteria. Allopurinol lowered the serum uric acid level (P<0.0001) and prevented the increase in 24-h ambulatory DBP and daytime SBP and DBP. Allopurinol treatment did not reduce HOMA or fasting plasma triglyceride levels, but lowered low-density lipoprotein cholesterol relative to control (P<0.02) and also prevented the increase in newly diagnosed metabolic syndrome (0-2%, P=0.009).
CONCLUSIONS:
High doses of fructose raise the BP and cause the features of metabolic syndrome. Lowering the uric acid level prevents the increase in mean arterial blood pressure. Excessive intake of fructose may have a role in the current epidemics of obesity and diabete
200 grams of fructose. No variations in fructose consumption between the groups. So how do you know that they weren't consuming more fructose than this before the study began?
I MEAN I REST MY CASE.
No, those studies were either poorly controlled or well controlled but without variations in fructose ingestion levels between the individuals who took part on it, so they don't count. This is a better study. It was done on rats, but it was very well controlled. It shows that fructose increases total cholesterol(LDL and HDL) on all control groups, but that in small doses the increase in HDL was much greater than the increase in LDL. Whether very high levels of fructose are detrimental or not remains to be seen: in very high levels, it boosts LDL, but also causes modest but significant increases in HDL. The cost/benefit of such ingestion on cardiovascular health remains to be seen. Funny that chimpanzees are genetically 99.8% similar to us and get 65% of their calories from fruit, and yet I am not aware of any chipanzee that has suffered a myocardial infarction in the wild - and I have read all of Jane Goodal's books.
http://www.nrjournal.com/article/S0271-5317(04)00048-X/abstract (http://www.nrjournal.com/article/S0271-5317(04)00048-X/abstract)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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All this arguing about the safety of fructose is a NONSENSE because there is nothing in nature healthier than fruits and vegetables!
When you ingest fructose directely from eating a whole fruit you will only enhance your health and feel energetic!
Now if you eat a concetrate of fructose in powder form, that could be deleterious for your health because nature predisposed only a certain amount of fructose in each fruit along with other important element found in the whole fruit that work together enhanching the health of his eater!
So the bottom line is:
-eat more fruit and vegetables and you'll be healtier!
-eat only fruit and vegetables and you'll be even healtier!
I myself eat great quantity of fruit and veggies every day and wish I could follow a diet made only on raw fruit and veggies but I love meat too much! ;D
Remember that there has been peoples that have reversed dangerous disease (diabetes, cancer,etc..) once they stopped eating a tipical western diet (rich in dairy,meat and eggs) and started eating a raw vegan diet made only of fruits and veggies!
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this moron seriously spent what amounted to 4 hours total of his life arguing that eating fruit is bad for you, lol
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All this arguing about the safety of fructose is a NONSENSE because there is nothing in nature healthier than fruits and vegetables!
When you ingest fructose directely from eating a whole fruit you will only enhance your health and feel energetic!
Now if you eat a concetrate of fructose in powder form, that could be deleterious for your health because nature predisposed only a certain amount of fructose in each fruit along with other important element found in the whole fruit that work together enhanching the health of his eater!
So the bottom line is:
-eat more fruit and vegetables and you'll be healtier!
-eat only fruit and vegetables and you'll be even healtier!
I myself eat great quantity of fruit and veggies every day and wish I could follow a diet made only on raw fruit and veggies but I love meat too much! ;D
Remember that there has been peoples that have reversed dangerous disease (diabetes, cancer,etc..) once they stopped eating a tipical western diet (rich in dairy,meat and eggs) and started eating a raw vegan diet made only of fruits and veggies!
fruit is good for you yup
this moron seriously spent what amounted to 4 hours total of his life arguing that eating fruit is bad for you, lol
where did i say fruit was bad lol, i swear some people on this site are braindead.
All this arguing about the safety of fructose is a NONSENSE because there is nothing in nature healthier than fruits and vegetables!
When you ingest fructose directely from eating a whole fruit you will only enhance your health and feel energetic!
Now if you eat a concetrate of fructose in powder form, that could be deleterious for your health because nature predisposed only a certain amount of fructose in each fruit along with other important element found in the whole fruit that work together enhanching the health of his eater!
So the bottom line is:
-eat more fruit and vegetables and you'll be healtier!
-eat only fruit and vegetables and you'll be even healtier!
I myself eat great quantity of fruit and veggies every day and wish I could follow a diet made only on raw fruit and veggies but I love meat too much! ;D
Remember that there has been peoples that have reversed dangerous disease (diabetes, cancer,etc..) once they stopped eating a tipical western diet (rich in dairy,meat and eggs) and started eating a raw vegan diet made only of fruits and veggies!
you are ridiculous, i agree with what you are saying but the manner in which you are saying it is absurb. Nature predisposed a certain amount of fructose? nature has no end goal and im sure an apple never had it's sweetness taken into account to please you.
there is no point in continuing this argument, fructose has been shown to have numerous deleterious effects, there are literally dozens of studies showing this. What impact high fructose has if one were to consume all fruits is unknown, i would suspect fruit would improve or eliminate many of the negative effects, namely because of the fiber and phytochemicals.
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Controls are not needed in this case because one diet did not contain glucose at all, hence any change in blood glucose profile could only possibly be caused by the fructose. Controls are needed when the proportions of nutritional susbstrates in different studies are both in different proportions, but not when one of the substrates is equal as in this case as the variations can only be explained by changes in the other substrate.
http://www.nrjournal.com/article/S0271-5317(04)00048-X/abstract (http://www.nrjournal.com/article/S0271-5317(04)00048-X/abstract)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
controls are not needed? lol werent you asking for a double blind study with ridiculous controls in order to prove my point yet your position requires only this shitty study with no controls to pass as evidence. Also, the study showed that the fructose did nothing for the healthy CONTROLS, hence it doesn't matter what you think should happen, ie fructose should help healthy people because it helped type 2 diabetics, because it doesn't and this study agrees with me.
Does it seem like a substance that improves blood sugar in diabetics would indude insulin resistence, genius? And of course I cna use diabetics since they are far more sensitive to alterations in blood glucose levels than non-diabetics.
why do you keep appealing to emotion, it doesnt matter what intuition tells you it simply isn't so in medicine. Yes drugs that improve insulin control and blood sugar regulation can induce insulin resistence over time. But that doesn't matter, if it were the case no studies would show fructose worsening glucose regulation and your study would have shown the controls also improving, which it did not. So it does seem like yes in fact fructose does what your quote above states.
Diabetics are better to determine the effects of fructose in blood glucose levels as they have compromised glucose-processing ability, hence variations in their blood glucose levels occur more dramatically than a normal subject which would allow you to detect the effects of particular monosaccharides like glucose and fructose more accurately. All the studies you posted, massive amounts of calories were consumed. In the controls where more fructose was utilized, more calories were also eaten. Then how can you attribute this to the fructose? You need to control for calories, then all other nutritional substrates to see the paricular effect of fructose.
what? what type of diabetes? so what about type 1 do we use those people to show that fructose improves glucose control? since the beta cells of the pancreas are being destroyed i would imagine you would have far different results they type 2 and then type 2 to normal individuals. You claimed fructose dramatically lowers blood sugar, it doesnt, i also dont think anyone assumed you were referring to type 2 diabetics exclusively. It's called the weight of the data, they have both in vitro and vivo studies on animals and humans showing fructose does the opposite of what you claimed.
so do you think type 1 diabetics are the best population to observe the effects of fructose on blood sugar, do you think that would give us an accurate picture we could extrapolate to the larger population? give me a break its as if you have done no science at all dude, why the hell would you use sick people with abnormal glucose regulation to examine the effects something has on an ubiquitous process. Its like examining the effect of smoking on someone with lung cancer versus normal controls, or in people with COPD versus normal controls. Of course it will be different the tissue is diseased as in no longer functioning normally, the histology is different completely it's silly and completely useless to draw any meaningful conclusions except for the populations studied. This is basic science, it's smack you in the face common sense.
This analogy is terrible. So you are saying that fructose is to normal people like lactose is to people with lactose intolerance, but diabetics somehow are immune to the deleterious health effects of fructose? I am sorry, but if I understood correctly, your point is ridiculous unless you post any evidence of it.
W
This states flat out what I have been saying: high-fructose corn syrup, which is fructose/glucose seems to wosen more blood lipd profile than fructose alone. So what have this proven besides that I am right?
you are understanding my analogy correctly and you actually proved my point in your post yet still didn't get it, odd. Lactose is harmful to those with lactose intolerance, however, those with ample lactase have absolutely no problem with it. Thus if you changed the type 2 diabetics in your group with lactose intolerant people and had the healhty controls what you would see is that those with LI would have negative effects with lactose while the healthy people would not, similar to the type 2 diabetics benefiting from fructose and the healthy not. My point was to prove that the population matters, you are concluding that fructose via helping T2diabetics is healthy for normal people even though your study didnt prove this, would be like me claiming lactose is unhealhty for normal people based on the results from the lactose intolerant group. This analogy is actually perfect and is what you are claiming .
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oh you will gain weight, you see fructose is only utilized by the liver via the glut5 receptor, unlike glucose which is utilized by the liver/muscle via glut 4. Once liver glycogen is full excess fructose is shunted towards lipogenesis/fat storage.
fructose would be good in the morning as liver glycogen is depleted or when on low carb diets to keep the body in a fed state, sparring muscle glycogen.
your body can convert all types of sugars into whatever it needs no point in seeking a specific "brand" of carb
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your body can convert all types of sugars into whatever it needs no point in seeking a specific "brand" of carb
no this conversion would only occur if glycogen was depleted or if gluconeogenesis was occuring. Fructose cannot supply muscles with glycogen, it requires a different receptor. I understand what you are saying but its not that simple.
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you are exaggerating a bit. some women really do like more effeminate looking guys, in addition to liking masculin looking guys. pretty boys get tons of ass as long as they have a personality. when you look like me, like a "pretty boy pussy" (lmao), its much more straight guys who have the negative attitude towards it. females arent as concerned with men appearing "hard" as much as you might think. they do, just not to the extent which guys do. you wont find the average bloke hanging out with pretty boys cuz he thinks their fa g g ish, but most women actually really like pretty boys. like jared leto, his nose is really ugly to me and you... to most women.. eh.. not that bad. just not optimal. and hes still good looking. so he can easily pull 7's and 8's with a good p[ersonality even if he was dirt poor and nobody knew him.
my nose is on the border line. its just very slightly upturned, and theres no upwards curvature to the brim of it, unlike leto's. the ski slope nose is the worst. lol.
The last word I would use for you is pretty.
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LOL epic strawman where did i claim that monosaccharides are poisons? i didn't realize monosaccharides=fructose.
Maybe I should have used the singular instead of the plural here, but the bottom line is that you said fructose is a poison and fructose is a monosaccharide.
Fruit is fine, carbs are fine, glucose is fine, eating a diet high in fructose is not, its not black and white and this epic strawman and putting words in my mouth is childish at best and dishonest when you know the difference.
So I repeat my question: from where should we get our energy substrate then? Since carbs are fine by you, then I imagine you are recommending one to eat grains, since fruits and grains are the only two sources of carbs available. I hope this isn't a "straw man". So grains instead of fruit. Too bad grains contains epic amounts of allergens and over half of all people have some allergy to some kind of grain. Grains also contains enormous amounts of inorganic acids such as phosphoric and phytic acids not to mention oxalates which are powerful anti-nutrients and cause acidosis in the body. You theory leaves us with little options. So should we live on ketones, then? That is pretty harsh for the brain.
gluconeogenesis and glycolysis are constantly in action, they do not put enormous stress on the liver
Oh yes, it does. You act like there are no differences in degree. There are. Fructose does create uric acid and those put strain on the liver. But protein creates 10 X more uric acid and also creates ammonia which is a known poison. So should get get our glucose from gluconeogenesis instead of getting it directly from food?
Uric acid is a by-product of purine metabolism so you clearly don't have a solid understanding of gluconeogenesis as it is an endergonic action.
So what? What has this got to do with anything?
Uric acid is not the by-product of gluconeogenesis (it is much more prominent in protein metabolism) and in fact high sugar diets increase uric acid.
Ugh, where have I stated that uric acid is a by product of gluconeogenesis? I said that uric acid is a by product of protein consumption. If you consume too much protein, as you must if you are going to get your glucose from gluconeogensis, then you will get lots of uric acid as a result. Funny that you accuse me of coming up with strawmans when you do it yourself.
GUESS what^ Cirillo P, Sato W, Reungjui S, et al. (December 2006). "Uric acid, the metabolic syndrome, and renal disease". J. Am. Soc. Nephrol. 17 (12 Suppl 3): S165–8.
this paper already presented by me which you clearly didnt look at shows that fructose induces high levels of uric acid and increases gout occurence and severity. So if you are concerned about gout, and uric acid and renal health pehaps you should follow your advice.
Yep. Too bad that gout is a lot more common among protein eaters than among fruitarians.
Then you make my position seem as if i said carbohydrates are bad here."Should we cut carbs completely and live on ketones which are even more toxic than ammonia and far less efficient as an energy source than glucose? I would like an honest answer to these questions."
which is another strawman and something one would use when losing the argument, which is clear you are.
I am sorry. I agree that was a strawman. It's just that you make it seem like all carbs are bad since in all studies you post glucose and fructose are combined to show worse lipid profiles. Since the worsened lipid profiles only happens when calories are increased(meaning total glucides), then it is impossible to know whether it is the fructose that is causing it.
Basically you are stating that i claim monosaccharides are bad because fructose is not healthy, then you make a more grandious claim that the only option is to avoid carbs all together.
Fine. I can see how that could be perceived as straw man. So what do you suggest we use as our primary energy substrate? Grains? Lard? Proteinaceous foods?
Fructose is fine to consume in mild to moderate doses ive said this over and over, eating only fruit is not good
And yet, I have posted several videos of people who have been eating nothing but fruits for years and they can run marathons and climb Mount Everest without Oxygen. They seem to be not only surviving but thriving in this diet. Funny how also lowland gorillas eat 90% of their calories from fruit and chimpanzees get 65% of their calories from fruit and there wasn't a single episode of a chimpanzee having a myocardial infarction in the 25 years that Jane Goodall lived amongst them. And yes, fruit has phytochemicals, but their blood-lipid improving properties would not be powerful enough to override the toxicity of so much fructose if it were that bad. You, conversely, post rat studies or studies on humans where total calories, fat, protein and glucose are not controlled for - which is the only way for the study to establish a cause-and-effect between fructose and worsened blood lipd profile.
It is also important to
and claiming that fructose dramatically lowers blood glucose levels is false, flat out false
I never claimed that. I said fructose lowers blood glucose levels in diabetics, and I posted a study proving this.
Im such a fucking boss though aren't i? come on admit it im sexy as all hell
You come across as insecure and in need of reassurance with this statement. Lack of self-confidence is not sexy.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Maybe I should have used the singular instead of the plural here, but the bottom line is that you said fructose is a poison and fructose is a monosaccharide.
So I repeat my question: from where should we get our energy substrate then? Since carbs are fine by you, then I imagine you are recommending one to eat grains, since fruits and grains are the only two sources of carbs available. I hope this isn't a "straw man". So grains instead of fruit. Too bad grains contains epic amounts of allergens and over half of all people have some allergy to some kind of grain. Grains also contains enormous amounts of inorganic acids such as phosphoric and phytic acids not to mention oxalates which are powerful anti-nutrients and cause acidosis in the body. You theory leaves us with little options. So should we live on ketones, then? That is pretty harsh for the brain.
Oh yes, it does. You act like there are no differences in degree. There are. Fructose does create uric acid and those put strain on the liver. But protein creates 10 X more uric acid and also creates ammonia which is a known poison. So should get get our glucose from gluconeogenesis instead of getting it directly from food?
So what? What has this got to do with anything?
Ugh, where have I stated that uric acid is a by product of gluconeogenesis? I said that uric acid is a by product of protein consumption. If you consume too much protein, as you must if you are going to get your glucose from gluconeogensis, then you will get lots of uric acid as a result. Funny that you accuse me of coming up with strawmans when you do it yourself.
Yep. Too bad that gout is a lot more common among protein eaters than among fruitarians.
I am sorry. I agree that was a strawman. It's just that you make it seem like all carbs are bad since in all studies you post glucose and fructose are combined to show worse lipid profiles. Since the worsened lipid profiles only happens when calories are increased(meaning total glucides), then it is impossible to know whether it is the fructose that is causing it.
Fine. I can see how that could be perceived as straw man. So what do you suggest we use as our primary energy substrate? Grains? Lard? Proteinaceous foods?
And yet, I have posted several videos of people who have been eating nothing but fruits for years and they can run marathons and climb Mount Everest without Oxygen. They seem to be not only surviving but thriving in this diet. Funny how also lowland gorillas eat 90% of their calories from fruit and chimpanzees get 65% of their calories from fruit and there wasn't a single episode of a chimpanzee having a myocardial infarction in the 25 years that Jane Goodall lived amongst them. And yes, fruit has phytochemicals, but their blood-lipid improving properties would not be powerful enough to override the toxicity of so much fructose if it were that bad. You, conversely, post rat studies or studies on humans where total calories, fat, protein and glucose are not controlled for - which is the only way for the study to establish a cause-and-effect between fructose and worsened blood lipd profile.
I never claimed that. I said fructose lowers blood glucose levels in diabetics, and I posted a study proving this.
You come across as insecure and in need of reassurance with this statement. Lack of self-confidence is not sexy.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
fructose is a metabolic poison, its quite clear, adding it to drinks, consuming large quantities is not healthy, i can state that as fact. From fruit is a different story so i dont want to have to repeat this over and over.
vegetables are carbohydrates as well perhaps you left that out on purpose im not sure.
you never said one time that fructose lowers blood sugar in diabetics, im not going to go around finding your lies dude. Your opening post made no reference to diabetics, even the post with the study on diabetics you made no claim until i pointed it out.
posting videos of people that eat alot of fruit isnt evidence that anyone would ever accept, they probably dont smoke, exercise, engage in stress reduction techniques, sleep alot etc.. live a healthy lifestyle there is no way to say they are healthy because of fruit consumption, that is what science is for to tease apart the variables. I dont doubt the fruits in the diet have a huge role, im not against fruit at all, fructose is all im against. Eating moderate amounts of something that has one bad thing but 1 million good things is fine, its like going for a jog in the woods, the jog benefits you more then the polluted city air in the park.
we should get glucose from food, grains, veggies and fruit. Eliminate fructose enhanced beverages, fruit juices and the like.
no insecurity just me being an ass as usual, more fucking around then anything as this is getbig.