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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: headhuntersix on December 21, 2011, 08:00:46 AM
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This kid caused alot of harm to US troops operating in Iraq and Afghanistan. There will be no military vote for Paul. Another reason he's an assbag and WILL NEVER GET THE NOMINATION. When your beloved Paul sounds alot like the Leftist dirtbags who hate America its time to relook at your candidate.
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/ron-paul-says-accused-traitor-is-a-patriot/
As homosexual Army soldier Bradley Manning’s treason trial continues at Fort Meade, Maryland, the support he has received from Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul has been curiously ignored by the major media, now touting Paul as someone who could win the January 3 Iowa Republican Caucuses. Paul has called Manning, a crossdresser with acknowledged mental problems, a “hero” and “patriot” for stealing government secrets and providing them to WikiLeaks.
Oh, but it gets better.
However, speaking at a campaign rally, Paul said that while Manning may have “technically” broken the law against releasing classified information to WikiLeaks, he did so for the purpose of exposing the “horrible things” being carried out by the U.S. Government.
Referring to Manning’s detention before trial, Paul said, “Should he be locked up and imprisoned?” Manning should be seen as a “political hero” and “true patriot who reveals what’s going on,” Paul said.
The Bradley Manning Support Network published an article saying that Paul believes that Manning is a “whistleblower” and his actions “are essential to the country.”
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"There will be no military vote for Paul."
how's he doing on military donations? I thought he did well in 2008.
And some soldiers/veterans DO support the cross-dressing manning. not sure if they're the minority tho:
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Supporters-Hail-US-Soldier-Tied-to-Wikileaks-as-Hero-135803613.html
Personally, I think if he broke the law, his ass goes to prison, no matter how noble. Law's the law, deal with it.
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No military vote for Ron Paul? Is that why he's received more military donations than all the other Republican candidates combined?
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"There will be no military vote for Paul."
how's he doing on military donations? I thought he did well in 2008.
And some soldiers/veterans DO support the cross-dressing manning. not sure if they're the minority tho:
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Supporters-Hail-US-Soldier-Tied-to-Wikileaks-as-Hero-135803613.html
Personally, I think if he broke the law, his ass goes to prison, no matter how noble. Law's the law, deal with it.
Are u fucking serious 240......those people in the article you linked to don't represent the military in any way shape or form. The kid should be hung until dead.
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No military vote for Ron Paul? Is that why he's received more military donations than all the other Republican candidates combined?
Yeah we love him hahaahahahahaahahahaahah . The Obamabots tried this crap in 2008. 100 individual donors (and not all were "Military", some were DoD Civs and Contractors). So can we really make broad judgements about the military based on that number? We went over this last election.....when the Obamabots were screaming that the military loved Obama. Yeah...you saw a sea of McCain stickers and the occasional Obama sticker...on a black DOD civilians car. Further...RP wants to cut the military and DOD. Its already happening with DOD civilians...do u think they're going to support RP? You guy is nuts...you know he's nuts and statements siding with a treasonous piece of shit like Manning only confirm it....yet you want to attack the part about military donantions.....wrong again.
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Are u fucking serious 240......those people in the article you linked to don't represent the military in any way shape or form. The kid should be hung until dead.
if he broke the law, then by all means punish him.
My point is that while you're wise and experienced in the military, and right about this - your views on ron paul and possibly the cross-dressing blabbermouth might not match the enlisted 21 year old. They donated to RP a ton in 2008. They voted for him. SOME of them love the guy because he wants them to be on US soil and not in the streets of tehran getting shot at. He appeals to the young, the internet news generation that doesn't buy into some govt lies.
So I dunno if this statement will hav a huge impact. Ron Paul could ninja kick the pope, and 99% of his supporters would point out the pope's flaws :)
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People went door to door for him in 2008...the foilks who came to my doodr where hippies and tongue pierced freaks...who then turned around and voted for Barry. 99.999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999 99999999999999 of 21 year old privates are not donanting to RP...Romney, Obama or Mickey mouse. They're donating to Budweiser, Coors and Miller on Friday night. I want to hear the RP clones actually take on his statement and explain please why he's right.
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Despite the mainstream media’s intentional disregard of Rep. Ron Paul as a top-tier Republican presidential candidate, widespread evidence of his popularity is apparent. On Saturday, the Texas Congressman won a landslide victory in the California Republican Party straw poll, a feat which continues to be ignored by the media. Likewise, military donation receipts for Republican candidates for the second quarter of this year reveal that Paul has received twice as much money from military members as all other GOP presidential candidates combined.
Digital Journal reports:
Although Texas Republican Congressman Ron Paul may be ignored throughout the mainstream media, one report shows that the presidential candidate may have strong support from the country’s military personnel.
Dr. Paul was able to produce $36,739.79 in donations from U.S. military personnel. His closest Republican competitor was Godfather’s Pizza CEO Herman Cain, who raised $6,223.
Overall, 71 percent of military donations for the 2012 presidential race have gone to Ron Paul, while Minnesota Representative Michele Bachmann received five percent, former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney eight percent, and Cain 13 percent. All other candidates combined have received three percent of the military donations.
These figures were all calculated before Texas Governor Rick Perry entered the race; however, observers note that Perry’s presence will likely not shift the figures too much, as the Texas Governor seems to hold much the same defense and foreign policy philosophies as all the other candidates except Paul.
Ron Paul asserts that these numbers indicate that the military supports his stance on the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya, agreeing with him that the United States should adopt a position of non-interventionism.
During an interview with PBS’s “NewsHour,” Paul declared that if he were President, he would remove U.S. forces from Afghanistan as “quickly as the ships could get there.” He elaborated:
It’s insane what we’re doing. And I’ll tell you one thing about this business about the military: We just had a quarterly [campaign finance] report, and they listed all the money that all the candidates got from the military. I got twice as much as all the other candidates put together on the Republican side, and even more than Obama got, which tells me that these troops want to come home as well because they know exactly what I’m talking about.
Some analysts questioned assertions that Paul had in fact received the majority of military donations, prompting Politifact.com to conduct its own research. The website reported:
We turned to the presidential candidates’ latest campaign finance filings compiled by the Federal Election Commission, which breaks out donations by donors’ employers…From April through June, Paul fielded more than $25,000 from individuals who listed their employer as a branch of the military.
Combined, six other Republican presidential candidates listed donations from members of the military totaling about $9,000. Our most-to-least breakdown: Herman Cain, $2,850; Mitt Romney, $2,750; Michele Bachmann, $2,250; Newt Gingrich, $500; and Tim Pawlenty and Rick Santorum, $250 each.
On the Democratic side, Obama’s campaign received more than $16,000 in donations from members of the military.
Politifact.com concluded that it is in fact true that military contributions to Paul are more than double that of the contributions to all other Republican presidential candidates, and that those donations also exceed those received by President Obama.
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Jesus... I just read that article in the OP and I've never seen anything that's more slanted in my life. Seems like ad hominem attacks and guilt by association has become the standard tactic for critiquing Ron Paul while completely ignoring the substance of what he says - can you guys come up with no better critique?
I'm not sure if I agree with Ron Paul's statement here because I'm not 100% familiar with all the documents that Bradley Manning leaked to Wikileaks - but didn't some of those documents help instigate the Arab Spring?
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Did Bradley Manning's leaks actually aid the enemy? A different view than that terribly slanted article hh6 posted:
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Um...they outed a string of confedential informants and people who were helping against the Taliban. If they helped launch the arab spring then then helped allow Egypt, an American ally, fall into the hands of the islamists...but that doesn't bother you does it, living in happy unicorn land with the other wingnuts. RP is siding with guy that is a traitor...TRAITOR...trai tor. He got people killed. And your guy says its OK.
Yup 240 was right..u RP idiots are nuts and would back him regardless. Oh and can you make your own points without the help of UTUBE. U said you were'nt familure with the info leaks.....so u go to a leftwing website to make your point. Manning was on suicide watch...his side said he wasn't. The Marines were'nt about to allow him to off himself. But hey...the Left and RP, awsome. "One of our troops"...he leaked this shit. He did leak TS level info plus all kinds of sensitive cables. This is bullshit but allow yourself to be folled because you have zero experience with things like this. I was in Iraq when all this shit was leaked and things were very difficult for us for several monstha s we figured out what he had done.
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This kid caused alot of harm to US troops operating in Iraq and Afghanistan. There will be no military vote for Paul. Another reason he's an assbag and WILL NEVER GET THE NOMINATION. When your beloved Paul sounds alot like the Leftist dirtbags who hate America its time to relook at your candidate.
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/ron-paul-says-accused-traitor-is-a-patriot/
As homosexual Army soldier Bradley Manning’s treason trial continues at Fort Meade, Maryland, the support he has received from Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul has been curiously ignored by the major media, now touting Paul as someone who could win the January 3 Iowa Republican Caucuses. Paul has called Manning, a crossdresser with acknowledged mental problems, a “hero” and “patriot” for stealing government secrets and providing them to WikiLeaks.
Oh, but it gets better.
However, speaking at a campaign rally, Paul said that while Manning may have “technically” broken the law against releasing classified information to WikiLeaks, he did so for the purpose of exposing the “horrible things” being carried out by the U.S. Government.
Referring to Manning’s detention before trial, Paul said, “Should he be locked up and imprisoned?” Manning should be seen as a “political hero” and “true patriot who reveals what’s going on,” Paul said.
The Bradley Manning Support Network published an article saying that Paul believes that Manning is a “whistleblower” and his actions “are essential to the country.”
Holy smokes. :-\ I can't believe he said that. Very disappointing.
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Yeah we love him hahaahahahahaahahahaahah . The Obamabots tried this crap in 2008. 100 individual donors (and not all were "Military", some were DoD Civs and Contractors). So can we really make broad judgements about the military based on that number? We went over this last election.....when the Obamabots were screaming that the military loved Obama. Yeah...you saw a sea of McCain stickers and the occasional Obama sticker...on a black DOD civilians car. Further...RP wants to cut the military and DOD. Its already happening with DOD civilians...do u think they're going to support RP? You guy is nuts...you know he's nuts and statements siding with a treasonous piece of shit like Manning only confirm it....yet you want to attack the part about military donantions.....wrong again.
Good luck trying to explain this. We've had this discussion on the board several times. People will see what they want to see. There is no way to draw any kind of reliable conclusions about military support based on a handful of donations.
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Good luck trying to explain this. We've had this discussion on the board several times. People will see what they want to see. There is no way to draw any kind of reliable conclusions about military support based on a handful of donations.
Which GOP contestant in 2008 got the most military donations? I thought it was ron paul.
You can call RP right or wrong, but there's no denying the young kids love him.
Of course, he wants to slash the military budget by 50%, so the old school guys who served are going to hate RP regardless. And he may not get any of that done while in office if congress hates.
But at some point - yall gotta quit discounting him as irrelevant. He's 1st in Iowa and running 2nd in NHampshire today.
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I do not agree with everything Ron Paul says, and I do not listen to anything his attackers say. But does anyone here really believe that Ron Paul could possibly be any worse of a president than Obama?
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Oh and can you make your own points without the help of UTUBE.
Not a fair argument - Your article that started this thread was from a very right-wing source that openly basehes obama all over their home page, and the flavor of the article wasn't exactly balanced lol. It made good points, as do you, but sometimes youtube can present good info in an easily digestible format.
bottom line - IMO this won't hurt Paul that much. If you drool for prison time for Manning, you're probably already not in the ron paul camp, ya know? And if you like Ron Paul, you probably dislike the multiple elective wars enough to overlook manning's treason.
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Which GOP contestant in 2008 got the most military donations? I thought it was ron paul.
You can call RP right or wrong, but there's no denying the young kids love him.
Of course, he wants to slash the military budget by 50%, so the old school guys who served are going to hate RP regardless. And he may not get any of that done while in office if congress hates.
But at some point - yall gotta quit discounting him as irrelevant. He's 1st in Iowa and running 2nd in NHampshire today.
Good luck trying to explain this. We've had this discussion on the board several times. People will see what they want to see. There is no way to draw any kind of reliable conclusions about military support based on a handful of donations.
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I do not agree with everything Ron Paul says, and I do not listen to anything his attackers say. But does anyone here really believe that Ron Paul could possibly be any worse of a president than Obama?
Loco I don't think it's possible any of the candidates currently running could be worse than Obama.
But Paul is never going to be the nominee, for some of the reasons you probably don't listen too. :D
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Loco I don't think it's possible any of the candidates currently running could be worse than Obama.
But Paul is never going to be the nominee, for some of the reasons you probably don't listen too. :D
Beach Bum, list those reasons and tell me if his chances would be any better if those reasons weren't there?
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Um...they outed a string of confedential informants and people who were helping against the Taliban. If they helped launch the arab spring then then helped allow Egypt, an American ally, fall into the hands of the islamists...but that doesn't bother you does it, living in happy unicorn land with the other wingnuts. RP is siding with guy that is a traitor...TRAITOR...trai tor. He got people killed. And your guy says its OK.
Yup 240 was right..u RP idiots are nuts and would back him regardless. Oh and can you make your own points without the help of UTUBE. U said you were'nt familure with the info leaks.....so u go to a leftwing website to make your point. Manning was on suicide watch...his side said he wasn't. The Marines were'nt about to allow him to off himself. But hey...the Left and RP, awsome. "One of our troops"...he leaked this shit. He did leak TS level info plus all kinds of sensitive cables. This is bullshit but allow yourself to be folled because you have zero experience with things like this. I was in Iraq when all this shit was leaked and things were very difficult for us for several monstha s we figured out what he had done.
So the 70+ percent of people in the military that support Ron Paul are idiot wing nuts? Sounds to me like its the other way around.
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Beach Bum, list those reasons and tell me if his chances would be any better if those reasons weren't there?
Some substantive, some not, but all involve the realities of presidential elections:
1. He does not have good presence. That includes his speaking voice and his delivery. It is disjointed at times, sounds whiney, and just isn't very good. This shouldn't matter, but it does. All you have to do is look at our current president to see how important this is. That's partly how Obama got elected.
2. His foreign policy views are so far outside the mainstream that he will not be able to get broad support from the Republican base, which he needs to get the nomination. For example, making the blanket statement that we need close all of our foreign military bases and his isolationism ignore the realities of the world we currently live in. Also, his comments about Bradley Manning that HH posted are pretty disturbing. I really question whether he could be a competent commander in chief.
3. Some of his supporters really don't help him. The fact he was the only candidate in 2008 to be asked a question about 911 Troofers shows that small group of nincompoops can hurt him. Going on the Alex Jones show didn't help either. Remember what happened to Van Jones when he got linked to 911 Troofers? If Ron Paul wins Iowa, that's the kind of stuff that will come up and drive a lot of voters away.
4. His support is a mile wide and an inch deep. His 2008 performance is a prime example. His actual performance on election day didn't approach his online support. I posted the numbers here: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=394271.0
5. I doubt he can win his home state of Texas (see the numbers in the link I referenced). I don't see how he can win the nomination if he cannot win his home state.
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the fact you're working SO HARD to discredit another republican speaks volumes to us, Beach Bum.
You see that 538.com prediction? You're nervous - Liberal or Libertarian in the white house in 2012, which is worse?
LOL...
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the fact you're working SO HARD to discredit another republican speaks volumes to us, Beach Bum.
You see that 538.com prediction? You're nervous - Liberal or Libertarian in the white house in 2012, which is worse?
LOL...
Who is "us"? LOL. This morning has the potential to be very funny. :)
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LMFAO... You sound like a cranky 240 whining about Sarah palin. When you're down to bitching about Ron paul's VOICE, it's clear to everyone here you're beyond nit-picking. You are seriously threatened by Ron Paul in 2012. This should give a great deal of hope to potential swing voters.
I got mocked when I disliked Palin so much, considered her such an embarassment to the GOP, that I pointed out that smarmy "told ya so" voice and finger pointing in speeches was annoying. Now you're doing it. I respect it, you hate and fear ron paul that much. But wow, it's incredible, I never thought we'd see the day when you're picking on a republican for his whiny voice.
1. He does not have good presence. That includes his speaking voice and his delivery. It is disjointed at times, sounds whiney, and just isn't very good.
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Who is "us"? LOL. This morning has the potential to be very funny. :)
this is perhaps one of the funniest dynamics we've had on getbig for so long, dude!
You hve dyed-in-wool liberal shitbags like myself defending ron paul against conservative stawlarts such as yourself.
I'm shaking my head at the ridiculousness of it, that getbig debates are at this point.
I admit, I'm the most inconsistent, irrational debater here - and you're one of the most consistent. You always back the GOp frontrunner. until now.
While I still think mitt will win the nomination, this may be the best getbig entertainment from 2011/2012 race.
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You hve dyed-in-wool liberal shitbags like myself
I admit, I'm the most inconsistent, irrational debater here
Finally, something I agree with.
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Finally, something I agree with.
hahahahhaha come on man, you gotta admit the irony here is crazy, right?
ah, politics has these rare amusing moments when everything is flipped upside down.
liberals defending the GOP frontrunner. unreal!
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Some substantive, some not, but all involve the realities of presidential elections:
1. He does not have good presence. That includes his speaking voice and his delivery. It is disjointed at times, sounds whiney, and just isn't very good. This shouldn't matter, but it does. All you have to do is look at our current president to see how important this is. That's partly how Obama got elected.
2. His foreign policy views are so far outside the mainstream that he will not be able to get broad support from the Republican base, which he needs to get the nomination. For example, making the blanket statement that we need close all of our foreign military bases and his isolationism ignore the realities of the world we currently live in. Also, his comments about Bradley Manning that HH posted are pretty disturbing. I really question whether he could be a competent commander in chief.
3. Some of his supporters really don't help him. The fact he was the only candidate in 2008 to be asked a question about 911 Troofers shows that small group of nincompoops can hurt him. Going on the Alex Jones show didn't help either. Remember what happened to Van Jones when he got linked to 911 Troofers? If Ron Paul wins Iowa, that's the kind of stuff that will come up and drive a lot of voters away.
4. His support is a mile wide and an inch deep. His 2008 performance is a prime example. His actual performance on election day didn't approach his online support. I posted the numbers here: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=394271.0
5. I doubt he can win his home state of Texas (see the numbers in the link I referenced). I don't see how he can win the nomination if he cannot win his home state.
Do you really believe that if 1-5 above were removed he'd have a better chance?
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if nothing else, ron paul winning a shitload of states, the base hating mitt with a passion, and newt just standing there lobbing molotov cocktails nonstop could lead to an incredibly interesting convention in 2012.
Although I still believe mitt has the infrastructure to win it all.
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Do you really believe that if 1-5 above were removed he'd have a better chance?
Absolutely. Especially no. 1. National elections are a beauty contest. Obama's 2004 speech at the Democrat convention thrust him into the national spotlight. His ability to read a teleprompter so well really galvanized a lot of people. I was even intrigued, until I actually listened to what he had to say. Obama will not be able to get away with that this time around.
But it's just an unfortunate fact that presence is a huge component. People who can deliver have a much easier time gaining followers.
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if nothing else, ron paul winning a shitload of states, the base hating mitt with a passion, and newt just standing there lobbing molotov cocktails nonstop could lead to an incredibly interesting convention in 2012.
Although I still believe mitt has the infrastructure to win it all.
I dont hate Mitt like i do Obama - but i dont trust him one bit.
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National elections are a beauty contest.
sometimes - but voters chose old and weird looking mccain over romney - and if any dude ever looked like a TV president it's romney.
They chose botoxed Kerry over a better looking dean in 2004.
hell, Huntsmann is the best looking in the gop bunch, and he's running last place. 2/3 of the top 3 (mitt and ron paul) look like little weird trolls. bachmann ius hot and perry looks like josh brolin, and they're losing.
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I dont hate Mitt like i do Obama - but i dont trust him one bit.
see, i think he works within a system. WIll he be nominating some moderates to the bench, yes, he probably will. He admitted 85% of his Mass judges were liberal because he had to get them passed thru a dem state senate. Guess what mittens - you will probably have a deb national senate in 2013.
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Some substantive, some not, but all involve the realities of presidential elections:
1. He does not have good presence. That includes his speaking voice and his delivery. It is disjointed at times, sounds whiney, and just isn't very good. This shouldn't matter, but it does. All you have to do is look at our current president to see how important this is. That's partly how Obama got elected.
2. His foreign policy views are so far outside the mainstream that he will not be able to get broad support from the Republican base, which he needs to get the nomination. For example, making the blanket statement that we need close all of our foreign military bases and his isolationism ignore the realities of the world we currently live in. Also, his comments about Bradley Manning that HH posted are pretty disturbing. I really question whether he could be a competent commander in chief.
3. Some of his supporters really don't help him. The fact he was the only candidate in 2008 to be asked a question about 911 Troofers shows that small group of nincompoops can hurt him. Going on the Alex Jones show didn't help either. Remember what happened to Van Jones when he got linked to 911 Troofers? If Ron Paul wins Iowa, that's the kind of stuff that will come up and drive a lot of voters away.
4. His support is a mile wide and an inch deep. His 2008 performance is a prime example. His actual performance on election day didn't approach his online support. I posted the numbers here: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=394271.0
5. I doubt he can win his home state of Texas (see the numbers in the link I referenced). I don't see how he can win the nomination if he cannot win his home state.
These exact same statement apply to Palin and Perry and yet you thought they were qualified for office.
Despite liking RP, I already know he won't be getting the nod at all.
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Absolutely. Especially no. 1. National elections are a beauty contest. Obama's 2004 speech at the Democrat convention thrust him into the national spotlight. His ability to read a teleprompter so well really galvanized a lot of people. I was even intrigued, until I actually listened to what he had to say. Obama will not be able to get away with that this time around.
But it's just an unfortunate fact that presence is a huge component. People who can deliver have a much easier time gaining followers.
If you are right, then that is very sad about the state of the democratic process.
But I believe that even if you remove your reasons why you believe Ron Paul does not have a chance, his chances would still be low because of his honesty, because he does not bow down to corporations and because his says what he believes is right even if it's unpopular.
I believe it will be very hard for Ron Paul to become a presidential candidate, but still definitely possible.
If Ron Paul is not the next US president, then Americans should prepare for just more of the same crap.
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sometimes - but voters chose old and weird looking mccain over romney - and if any dude ever looked like a TV president it's romney.
They chose botoxed Kerry over a better looking dean in 2004.
hell, Huntsmann is the best looking in the gop bunch, and he's running last place. 2/3 of the top 3 (mitt and ron paul) look like little weird trolls. bachmann ius hot and perry looks like josh brolin, and they're losing.
Maybe the GOP has different standards for beauty than the rest of us?
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Maybe the GOP has different standards for beauty than the rest of us?
Truth - you find a lot of beauty in Barney Frank.
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Truth - you find a lot of beauty in Barney Frank.
Says the shut in with an imaginary girlfriend who has shirtless pics of BF on his hard drive.
Nice way to showcase those homo frustrations of yours.
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These exact same statement apply to Palin and Perry and yet you thought they were qualified for office.
Despite liking RP, I already know he won't be getting the nod at all.
Beach..great post. I think people overlook how he comes across on debates. I think they missed how our current President got elected because of speeches and presence. This shit really matters...it goes beyond looking good. Being able to sway a crowd, persuasion etc...RP comes off horribly. Palin comes off bad, Perry and Bachman have gotten better...but they're poor as well. Newt and Romney do very well.
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These exact same statement apply to Palin and Perry and yet you thought they were qualified for office.
Despite liking RP, I already know he won't be getting the nod at all.
No, the same statements don't apply. Both Palin and Perry give good speeches. Palin's convention speech actually drew higher ratings than Obama's. Perry does a very good job giving speeches. Horrible in debates.
How are Palin's and Perry's foreign policy views like Ron Paul's?
911 Troofers support Palin and Perry? News to me.
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If you are right, then that is very sad about the state of the democratic process.
But I believe that even if you remove your reasons why you believe Ron Paul does not have a chance, his chances would still be low because of his honesty, because he does not bow down to corporations and because his says what he believes is right even if it's unpopular.
I believe it will be very hard for Ron Paul to become a presidential candidate, but still definitely possible.
If Ron Paul is not the next US president, then Americans should prepare for just more of the same crap.
It really is sad. Personally, I could care less about delivery. I care about substance. But that's not what moves the masses.
Ron Paul is an honest man, but he's also just a politician. Have you looked at his positions on the stimulus and earmarks and compared them what he has actually done? Not very consistent. He does what politicians do.
I don't think he would be nearly as bad as most politicians if he were to get into office, but he's not some savior. None of those folks are.
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Beach..great post. I think people overlook how he comes across on debates. I think they missed how our current President got elected because of speeches and presence. This shit really matters...it goes beyond looking good. Being able to sway a crowd, persuasion etc...RP comes off horribly. Palin comes off bad, Perry and Bachman have gotten better...but they're poor as well. Newt and Romney do very well.
Thanks. I actually had someone tell me that Obama is one of the "great orators of our time." ::)
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You'll here plenty of people who will say only the substance matters....sorry folks but you have to package it well too. Reagn could package, CLINTON could package...its possible.
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Thanks. I actually had someone tell me that Obama is one of the "great orators of our time." ::)
Who! Ask that person to ever repeat one thing from one speech he ever made!
Who are these drones? Orator? The man is good at READING a speech on teleprompter. When off mic is is an illiterate, stuttering, incompetent, ignorant buffoon.
He is not smart or intelligent, and shows signs of being nothing more than a college sophomore level aspiring TA.
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if you guys are arguing that this guy is a traitor for exposing a corrupt government then you are morons lol. He exposed the traitors, he exposed the people that take advantage and commit terrible acts because they have the power to do so. How is it un american to expose corrupt law breaking government officials, if you condone the government being corrupt and abusing power then you are the sheep that have put the country in the state it is. Ron Paul is 100% right, expose these fucking scumbags, these traitors and money takers.
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You'll here plenty of people who will say only the substance matters....sorry folks but you have to package it well too. Reagn could package, CLINTON could package...its possible.
Agree.
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Who! Ask that person to ever repeat one thing from one speech he ever made!
Who are these drones? Orator? The man is good at READING a speech on teleprompter. When off mic is is an illiterate, stuttering, incompetent, ignorant buffoon.
He is not smart or intelligent, and shows signs of being nothing more than a college sophomore level aspiring TA.
They guy who said this to me is very smart and extremely well spoken. He's also openly gay, so I think that explains why he "adores" Obama. :)
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if you guys are arguing that this guy is a traitor for exposing a corrupt government then you are morons lol. He exposed the traitors, he exposed the people that take advantage and commit terrible acts because they have the power to do so. How is it un american to expose corrupt law breaking government officials, if you condone the government being corrupt and abusing power then you are the sheep that have put the country in the state it is. Ron Paul is 100% right, expose these fucking scumbags, these traitors and money takers.
The president is the Commander in Chief. He cannot condone when a Soldier breaks the law and disobeys orders and directives like Manning.
And saying he "technically" broke the law?? Calling him a hero? He will get crucified over this. There is no way members of the military would support this.
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They guy who said this to me is very smart and extremely well spoken. He's also openly gay, so I think that explains why he "adores" Obama. :)
Sorry BB - you and I have a very different idea of what a "smart person" is if they could say something like that. Like I said - maybe they are good at putting a veneer of intelligence forth to you - but no one could say that qualifies as smart in my book.
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911 Troofers support Palin and Perry? News to me.
palin supported another 911 investigation dude. she's a troofer too.
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Sorry BB - you and I have a very different idea of what a "smart person" is if they could say something like that. Like I said - maybe they are good at putting a veneer of intelligence forth to you - but no one could say that qualifies as smart in my book.
Yeah, we have different definitions. I don't think people are dumb because they disagree with me.
I understand where you're coming from. It's just crazy for people to support Obama after the horrendous job he has done. But we're talking about more than 50 million people who will be voting or him next year. I wouldn't consider all of those folks dumb, especially the ones I know.
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palin supported another 911 investigation dude. she's a troofer too.
1. I am certain, without even using my friend Google, that what you say is likely taken out of context, embellished, or just flat out false.
2. No, she is not a 911 Troofer. She does not believe the government shot a missile into the Pentagon.
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Um...they outed a string of confedential informants and people who were helping against the Taliban. If they helped launch the arab spring then then helped allow Egypt, an American ally, fall into the hands of the islamists...but that doesn't bother you does it, living in happy unicorn land with the other wingnuts. RP is siding with guy that is a traitor...TRAITOR...trai tor. He got people killed. And your guy says its OK.
Yup 240 was right..u RP idiots are nuts and would back him regardless. Oh and can you make your own points without the help of UTUBE. U said you were'nt familure with the info leaks.....so u go to a leftwing website to make your point. Manning was on suicide watch...his side said he wasn't. The Marines were'nt about to allow him to off himself. But hey...the Left and RP, awsome. "One of our troops"...he leaked this shit. He did leak TS level info plus all kinds of sensitive cables. This is bullshit but allow yourself to be folled because you have zero experience with things like this. I was in Iraq when all this shit was leaked and things were very difficult for us for several monstha s we figured out what he had done.
The info that Manning leaked helped overthrow dictatorships across the Muslim world and yes, at least one of those was our "ally." I guess we know where your loyalties are: with dictatorships in the Muslim world, but not with US interests.
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The info that Manning leaked helped overthrow dictatorships across the Muslim world and yes, at least one of those was our "ally." I guess we know where your loyalties are: with dictatorships in the Muslim world, but not with US interests.
Bullshit...prove it.
I've yet to see any legit connection to Manning and Arab Spring other some bloggers claiming there "may" be something there.
Hell, his entire defense is that the info released was harmless.
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Bullshit...prove it.
I've yet to see any legit connection to Manning and Arab Spring other some bloggers claiming there "may" be something there.
Hell, his entire defense is that the info released was harmless.
From what I understand, the info released exposed some deep-seated corruption in the Tunisian government, which helped spark the protests in that country.
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Didn't you say you didn't follow the info release. I lived with the shit for months. Manning should be hung until dead.
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Didn't you say you didn't follow the info release. I lived with the shit for months. Manning should be hung until dead.
Yeah, I really didn't. And I agree with you that any information he released that was harmful to US soldiers should be a punishable crime. But there is a lot of info he released that showed the true side of the war and of US foreign policy. Some say he helped spark the Arab Spring. In these ways, what he did was patriotic and heroic.
The fact that you choose to side with dictators over allowing people the right to self-determination says a lot about where your true loyalties are: not with the United States, that's for sure.
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Let me see if I can help you there..since your all about freedom around the world and such. The US does what it does because its in our stategic best interest....not help or hurt or do anything else. If the oil was in outer Mongolia..we'd have bases and I'd have had a ton of Yak barbecue by now. The Arab spring has done nothing but kill alot of people and destabilize the one place that we get our friggen oil from. Manning is a traitor in any way shape or form. His chain of command knew he was a risk but allowed him to continue to access classified data. He should be executed. They're gonna use the gay defense as well and then all the fags from GLAAD will be all over this..as we've seen from Dan Choi protesting st Ft Meade.
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Not only should he get smoked..his chain of command needs to brought in and punished. I had soldiers that were problems, everybody does but I get paid to make sure they don't become everybody elses. I had some down range..they got shipped back home. If Manning had done what they say he did prior to the leak he would have been handing towels out at the gym until we could ship him home or until the tour ended...without his weapon.
FORT MEADE, Md. (AP) -- Lawyers for the Army intelligence analyst blamed for the biggest national security leak in American history briskly presented the entirety of his defense Wednesday, a year-and-half after the young private allegedly handed a trove of classified data to WikiLeaks.
Pfc. Bradley Manning's defense rested its case after calling only two witnesses who testified about his behavioral problems and lax security controls on the computers in his Baghdad office.
The hearing was recessed until closing arguments Thursday, after which the case's presiding officer will have until Jan. 16 to recommend whether the 24-year-old Oklahoma native should be court-martialed for aiding the enemy and a score of other charges.
Called before the judge Wednesday were a sergeant who witnessed one of Manning's fits of rage in Baghdad and a captain who oversaw the private and his co-workers there in late 2009. The defense has painted Manning as a troubled man who shouldn't have had access to classified material, let alone served in Iraq, and that security at his workplace was weak.
Throughout the proceedings, Manning has remained outwardly composed as witness after witness talked about his emotional problems, his difficulties as a gay soldier during the military's "don't ask, don't tell" era, and his violent outbursts while still in the United States and then during his tour of duty in Iraq from late 2009 to mid-2010.
Manning was part of a three-soldier skeleton crew working the night shift in a restricted area with computers connected to the military's supposedly secure network for sharing classified information. But witnesses said soldiers routinely accessed music, movies and computer games over the network as well.
"I remember thinking that was something we shouldn't be so liberal about," said Capt. Barclay Keay, who was in charge of a night shift Manning worked for a few weeks in late 2009. He found it "kind of odd" that troops were using the secure network for recreational media during work hours, but learned that such activities were an accepted practice on the war front.
Manning allegedly downloaded hundreds of thousands of State Department diplomatic cables onto a rewritable CD labeled "Lady Gaga," while lip-synching to her song, "Telephone." He also is accused of sending hundreds of thousands of classified military reports and a video of a deadly American helicopter attack to the secrets-spilling website WikiLeaks, which shared the information with the world.
Keay's impression of Manning was that he was a good soldier who "did good analytical work."
But Sgt. Daniel Padgett, one of Manning's supervisors, said otherwise, recalling an incident when he sat down with Manning for a "counseling session" after the soldier was late for work.
When Padgett tried to impress on Manning the importance of being on time, "his demeanor changed," the former supervisor testified. He said Manning then stood up and overturned a table, spilling a radio and computer onto the floor. Padgett said he moved Manning away from a gun rack while someone else restrained him until he calmed down. Padgett said he didn't remember reporting the incident to his supervisors.
The government says Manning's leak of classified data and WikiLeak's revelations rattled U.S. foreign relations and imperiled valuable military and diplomatic sources. It rested its case against Manning on Tuesday after calling 21 witnesses over five days of proceedings at a military base outside Washington.
The government wants Manning court-martialed on charges including aiding the enemy. If convicted, he could face life in prison.
Prosecution witnesses said Manning was well trained in rules prohibiting release of classified information.
Forensic computer experts testified that they'd retraced his keyboard strokes as he downloaded diplomatic cables and raw battlefield reports from Iraq and Afghanistan.
And Adrian Lamo, a convicted hacker, said Manning confided to him in May 2010 that he was the leaker. Lamo then informed authorities.
After closing arguments, presiding officer Lt. Col. Paul Almanza will weigh his recommendation of whether Manning should be court-martialed. Then, a senior military officer will make the final decision. The process could take several weeks
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A hero for leaking TS documents....your an idiot. Our education system has failed when our citizens think douchbags like this are hero's.
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This shitbag is no hero and didn't do shit to usher in Arab Spring. If found guilty, he needs to be shot.
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He discovered proof of illegal doings by our military, and he was brave enough to put his neck on the line and leak the stuff.
He his an hero.
Manning was one of 241 candidates listed for the 2011 Nobel Peace Prize.
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"In addition to this "Collateral Murder" video, Pfc. Manning is suspected of leaking the "Afghan War Diaries" – tens of thousands of battlefield reports that explicitly describe civilian deaths and cover-ups, corrupt officials, collusion with warlords, and a failing US/NATO war effort."
He's a real traitor for leaking stuff like that....
We need more brave heros like PFC Manning today.
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Did Bradley Manning's leaks actually aid the enemy? A different view than that terribly slanted article hh6 posted:
Absolutely not, they aided the American people in their battle against the treasonous Bush and Obama administrations.
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if you guys are arguing that this guy is a traitor for exposing a corrupt government then you are morons lol. He exposed the traitors, he exposed the people that take advantage and commit terrible acts because they have the power to do so. How is it un american to expose corrupt law breaking government officials, if you condone the government being corrupt and abusing power then you are the sheep that have put the country in the state it is. Ron Paul is 100% right, expose these fucking scumbags, these traitors and money takers.
(http://saraduffeyartistry.com/images/hit-the-nail-on-the-head.jpg)
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"In addition to this "Collateral Murder" video, Pfc. Manning is suspected of leaking the "Afghan War Diaries" – tens of thousands of battlefield reports that explicitly describe civilian deaths and cover-ups, corrupt officials, collusion with warlords, and a failing US/NATO war effort."
Fixed. Never print a dark font on a dark background. It's hard to read. >:(
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The president is the Commander in Chief. He cannot condone when a Soldier breaks the law and disobeys orders and directives like Manning.
And saying he "technically" broke the law?? Calling him a hero? He will get crucified over this. There is no way members of the military would support this.
exposing corruption and tyranny should never be punished, its like you guys are saying he is bad for exposing people who have killed others against the law, are corrupt, have violated basic human rights etc. Why is he a traitor? because the people he exposed are considered americans? i would consider them terrorists.
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exposing corruption and tyranny should never be punished, its like you guys are saying he is bad for exposing people who have killed others against the law, are corrupt, have violated basic human rights etc. Why is he a traitor? because the people he exposed are considered americans? i would consider them terrorists.
He's traitor for betraying his oath to his country. And for breaking the law. And for putting the lives of his fellow Soldiers in danger. He should be shot, resurrected, and hanged.
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He's traitor for betraying his oath to his country. And for breaking the law. And for putting the lives of his fellow Soldiers in danger. He should be shot, resurrected, and hanged.
X 100000000000000000000000 00000
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He's traitor for betraying his oath to his country. And for breaking the law. And for putting the lives of his fellow Soldiers in danger. He should be shot, resurrected, and hanged.
an oath that when examined is/was based on lies. What law? laws that prevent people from exposing frauds and criminals, what is a law if its moral underpinning is missing. Also, you are a hypocrite law breaker, what value do you place in law? have you worked on the sabbath? have you ever talked back to your parents? biblical law requires you stoned, not so found of following this law well because its too hard and clearly ridiculous.
so you seem to be in favor of my approach also then, you pick and choose which laws to follow based on some algorithm or perhaps a roll of hte dice, but you do differentiate them, much like any sane person would do in this case. Again what solution does he have, put the soldiers at risk or expose government lies putting those troops lives on the line based on lies. His only options were expose it or hide it you clearly are of the moral standard that you would hide the documents i however would expose corruption and see it as the etiology per se of the wars in the first place, your solution is piecemeal.
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if you think the law sucks, you never sign up to join the military.
if youre in the military and see war crimes and disagree, you resign and take the dishonorable dischrge (or just shoot off your trigger finger and get medical banana'd out).
You don't go leaking shitload of state secrets, unaware of the full consequences. Prosecute him.
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if you think the law sucks, you never sign up to join the military.
if youre in the military and see war crimes and disagree, you resign and take the dishonorable dischrge (or just shoot off your trigger finger and get medical banana'd out).
You don't go leaking shitload of state secrets, unaware of the full consequences. Prosecute him.
No such thing as resigning unless youve completed your mandatory enlistment term. You cant get out early because you disagree with something.
But yeah I agree with you on most of it.
You dont go looking secrets because you disagree with what goes on... War.. is war.
You either deal with it or you bail after your enlistment is up. You dont sell out your country.
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an oath that when examined is/was based on lies. What law? laws that prevent people from exposing frauds and criminals, what is a law if its moral underpinning is missing. Also, you are a hypocrite law breaker, what value do you place in law? have you worked on the sabbath? have you ever talked back to your parents? biblical law requires you stoned, not so found of following this law well because its too hard and clearly ridiculous.
so you seem to be in favor of my approach also then, you pick and choose which laws to follow based on some algorithm or perhaps a roll of hte dice, but you do differentiate them, much like any sane person would do in this case. Again what solution does he have, put the soldiers at risk or expose government lies putting those troops lives on the line based on lies. His only options were expose it or hide it you clearly are of the moral standard that you would hide the documents i however would expose corruption and see it as the etiology per se of the wars in the first place, your solution is piecemeal.
First of all, this isn't about me. And you can take that asinine religious garbage to the religion board.
Second, here is the oath he took:
"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
I don't have a cite to the specific order, regulation, or federal law that says don't share classified information, but it's likely contained in all three (order, regulation, and federal law). Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows this.
If he believed he observed wrongdoing, the way to handle it is not to trample on his oath or violate the law. You use your chain of command. You inform your superiors. If you're uncomfortable doing that, or unhappy with their response, you go to the inspector general, who will ALWAYS listen. If that doesn't work, you write your Congressman. What you don't do is share secrets with the enemy, or the press, etc. This is a friggin no brainer. ::)
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I haven't read this thread, but he (That Manning (?) fellow) should be let go.
I'll happily argue.
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He's traitor for betraying his oath to his country. And for breaking the law. And for putting the lives of his fellow Soldiers in danger. He should be shot, resurrected, and hanged.
You gave 3 reasons, let's examine these:
1. Is it ever justified to break ones oath to ones country? if so, when?
2. Is it ever justified to break the law, if so, when?
3. How did he put the lives of his fellow soldiers in danger? I know he leaked a lot of files and that helicopter video that became famous. Let's say he put 5 soldiers lives in danger (assuming, for some weird reason, that the lives of those 5 soldiers were not already in danger). Would it be justified to expose war crimes? What if these were extreme war crimes (Say for instance, the torture of 1,000 Iraqi citizens, and 500 of those died from the torture). Would it be justified to put 5 U.S. soldier lives in danger to save 1,000 Iraqi citizens from being tortured (and 500 of that 1000 from dying)? You need to either say A) It is never justified to put any U.S. soldier's life in more danger than the life already is in time of war no matter what the consequences may be or B) It is sometimes justified considering the consequences to put lives of U.S. soldiers in danger. If you choose B, you have to define what situations.
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You gave 3 reasons, let's examine these:
1. Is it ever justified to break ones oath to ones country? if so, when?
2. Is it ever justified to break the law, if so, when?
3. How did he put the lives of his fellow soldiers in danger? I know he leaked a lot of files and that helicopter video that became famous. Let's say he put 5 soldiers lives in danger (assuming, for some weird reason, that the lives of those 5 soldiers were not already in danger). Would it be justified to expose war crimes? What if these were extreme war crimes (Say for instance, the torture of 1,000 Iraqi citizens, and 500 of those died from the torture). Would it be justified to put 5 U.S. soldier lives in danger to save 1,000 Iraqi citizens from being tortured (and 500 of that 1000 from dying)? You need to either say A) It is never justified to put any U.S. soldier's life in more danger than the life already is in time of war no matter what the consequences may be or B) It is sometimes justified considering the consequences to put lives of U.S. soldiers in danger. If you choose B, you have to define what situations.
How about we examine this particular traitor instead engaging in some metaphysical discussion about the meaning of life, obeying the law, etc.?
1. He violated his oath. That's undisputed.
2. He broke the law. That's undisputed (although I'm not about to look up which one it was). He was an intelligence analyst. He had a security clearance. He knew exactly what he was and was not supposed to do. The fact he covertly transferred classified data shows he knew it was unlawful. That's the only reason he did it secretly.
3. You asked about 5 or 6 questions and I'm not about to try and parse them out. But on the issue of putting lives in danger, he transferred over 250,000 classified U.S. State Department cables. He transfered internal war logs and diaries. I'm sure they contained names, strategies, successes, failures, after-action reports, etc. Yes, that kind of information in the hands of the enemy compromises future missions and puts the lives of Soldiers in danger. What he did is indefensible.
And he didn't expose squat. I watched the video where the helicopter took out insurgents. I have no problem with their use of force. But even if I did, that does not justify engaging in the largest illegal classified information transfer in American history (or so I read--I think). There are plenty of ways to shine the light on perceived misconduct without betraying your country (see my prior post).
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Here is what Bradley Manning signed when he was granted a security clearance: CLASSIFIED INFORMATION NONDISCLOSURE AGREEMENT
http://www.archives.gov/isoo/security-forms/sf312.pdf
1. Intending to be legally bound, I hereby accept the obligations contained in this Agreement in consideration of my being
granted access to classified information. As used in this Agreement, classified information is marked or unmarked classified
information, including oral communications, that is classified under the standards of Executive Order 12958, or under any
other Executive order or statute that prohibits the unauthorized disclosure of information in the interest of national security;
and unclassified information that meets the standards for classification and is in the process of a classification determination
as provided in Sections 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4(e) of Executive Order 12958, or under any other Executive order or statute that
requires protection for such information in the interest of national security. I understand and accept that by being granted
access to classified information, special confidence and trust shall be placed in me by the United States Government.
2. I hereby acknowledge that I have received a security indoctrination concerning the nature and protection of classified
information, including the procedures to be followed in ascertaining whether other persons to whom I contemplate disclosing
this information have been approved for access to it, and that I understand these procedures.
3. I have been advised that the unauthorized disclosure, unauthorized retention, or negligent handling of classified information
by me could cause damage or irreparable injury to the United States or could be used to advantage by a foreign nation. I
hereby agree that I will never divulge classified information to anyone unless: (a) I have officially verified that the recipient has
been properly authorized by the United States Government to receive it; or (b) I have been given prior written notice of
authorization from the United States Government Department or Agency (hereinafter Department or Agency) responsible for
the classification of the information or last granting me a security clearance that such disclosure is permitted. I understand
that if I am uncertain about the classification status of information, I am required to confirm from an authorized official that
the information is unclassified before I may disclose it, except to a person as provided in (a) or (b), above. I further understand
that I am obligated to comply with laws and regulations that prohibit the unauthorized disclosure of classified information.
4. I have been advised that any breach of this Agreement may result in the termination of any security clearances I hold;
removal from any position of special confidence and trust requiring such clearances; or the termination of my employment or
other relationships with the Departments or Agencies that granted my security clearance or clearances. In addition, I have
been advised that any unauthorized disclosure of classified information by me may constitute a violation, or violations, of
United States criminal laws, including the provisions of Sections 641, 793, 794, 798, *952 and 1924, Title 18, United States
Code, * the provisions of Section 783(b), Title 50, United States Code, and the provisions of the Intelligence Identities
Protection Act of 1982. I recognize that nothing in this Agreement constitutes a waiver by the United States of the right to
prosecute me for any statutory violation.
5. I hereby assign to the United States Government all royalties, remunerations, and emoluments that have resulted, will
result or may result from any disclosure, publication, or revelation of classified information not consistent with the terms of
this Agreement.
6. I understand that the United States Government may seek any remedy available to it to enforce this Agreement including,
but not limited to, application for a court order prohibiting disclosure of information in breach of this Agreement.
7. I understand that all classified information to which I have access or may obtain access by signing this Agreement is now
and will remain the property of, or under the control of the United States Government unless and until otherwise determined
by an authorized official or final ruling of a court of law. I agree that I shall return all classified materials which have, or may
come into my possession or for which I am responsible because of such access: (a) upon demand by an authorized
representative of the United States Government; (b) upon the conclusion of my employment or other relationship with the
Department or Agency that last granted me a security clearance or that provided me access to classified information; or (c)
upon the conclusion of my employment or other relationship that requires access to classified information. If I do not return
such materials upon request, I understand that this may be a violation of Section 793 and/or 1924, Title 18, United States
Code, a United States criminal law.
8. Unless and until I am released in writing by an authorized representative of the United States Government, I understand
that all conditions and obligations imposed upon me by this Agreement apply during the time I am granted access to classified
information, and at all times thereafter.
9. Each provision of this Agreement is severable. If a court should find any provision of this Agreement to be unenforceable,
all other provisions of this Agreement shall remain in full force and effect.
10. These restrictions are consistent with and do not supersede, conflict with or otherwise alter the employee obligations,
rights or liabilities created by Executive Order 12958; Section 7211 of Title 5, United States Code (governing disclosures to
Congress); Section 1034 of Title 10, United States Code, as amended by the Military Whistleblower Protection Act (governing
disclosure to Congress by members of the military): Section 2302(b)( 8 ) of Title 5, United States Code, as amended by the
Whistleblower Protection Act (governing disclosures of illegality, waste, fraud, abuse or public health or safety threats); the
Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 (50 U.S.C. 421 et seq.) (governing disclosures that expose confidential
Government agents), and the statutes which protect against disclosure that may compromise the national security, including
Sections 641, 793, 794, 798, 952 and 1924 of Title 18, United States Code, and Section 4(b) of the Subversive Activities
Act of 1950 (50 U.S.C. Section 783(b)). The definitions, requirements, obligations, rights, sanctions and liabilities created by
said Executive Order and listed statutes are incorporated into this Agreement and are controlling.
11. I have read this Agreement carefully and my questions, if any, have been answered. I acknowledge that the briefing
officer has made available to me the Executive Order and statutes referenced in this Agreement and its implementing
regulation (32 CFR Section 2003.20) so that I may read them at this time, if I so choose.
9. Each provision of this Agreement is severable. If a court should find any provision of this Agreement to be unenforceable,
all other provisions of this Agreement shall remain in full force and effect.
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Are u fucking serious 240......those people in the article you linked to don't represent the military in any way shape or form. The kid should be hung until dead.
Please cite direct evidence of "a lot of harm done to troops" by information allegedly released by this kid. I have yet to see any instances of harm being reported by anyone and I've been following this story very closely since it happened.
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u people are some backwards thinking fucks man, jesus is this what the states is like you have these extreme right wing crazies taking over and claiming that because he broke his oath to a corrupt government that was putting his life and others on the line for lies and greed he should be punished, LOL the logic in you people is absurd.
you have these black and white views on life and im sorry life is not like that think for yourself for fucks sake, why would you obey an oath and law that is based on lies when its your life and those of your friends fighting the battle? use the chain of command? the top of the chain was the ones he was exposing again where is the logic here? tell the corrupt people they are corrupt? then you have this made up argument that has not one shred of evidence that he was putting the lives of his companions in danger, lol really? show me, prove it, do you not find it odd that you do not apply the same logic to the people above him putting their lives in danger as well? you are the people that withheld the blacks rights, the people who argue against gays etc..
grow up you mental midgets, become an adult and think for yourself.
if a law is morally corrupt i would not follow it just as you do not for many so called laws.
this is my only experience of people like you guys and i realize why the world is laughing as the looneys try to take hold. you got John Bonner walking out on talks like its nothing and you cheer him on towards tyrannical state. He handed out bribe checks for the tabacco lobby on the floor of congress HAHAHAHAHHAHAH, supporting him and his party of liars and thieves is ridiculous. Obama sucks just like ive been saying all along, you need a serious change or your country is going in the shitter.
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How about we examine this particular traitor instead engaging in some metaphysical discussion about the meaning of life, obeying the law, etc.?
1. He violated his oath. That's undisputed.
2. He broke the law. That's undisputed (although I'm not about to look up which one it was). He was an intelligence analyst. He had a security clearance. He knew exactly what he was and was not supposed to do. The fact he covertly transferred classified data shows he knew it was unlawful. That's the only reason he did it secretly.
3. You asked about 5 or 6 questions and I'm not about to try and parse them out. But on the issue of putting lives in danger, he transferred over 250,000 classified U.S. State Department cables. He transfered internal war logs and diaries. I'm sure they contained names, strategies, successes, failures, after-action reports, etc. Yes, that kind of information in the hands of the enemy compromises future missions and puts the lives of Soldiers in danger. What he did is indefensible.
And he didn't expose squat. I watched the video where the helicopter took out insurgents. I have no problem with their use of force. But even if I did, that does not justify engaging in the largest illegal classified information transfer in American history (or so I read--I think). There are plenty of ways to shine the light on perceived misconduct without betraying your country (see my prior post).
BB bringing down some pain. Still waiting for all this exposed "corruption"...
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u people are some backwards thinking fucks man, jesus is this what the states is like you have these extreme right wing crazies taking over and claiming that because he broke his oath to a corrupt government that was putting his life and others on the line for lies and greed he should be punished, LOL the logic in you people is absurd.
you have these black and white views on life and im sorry life is not like that think for yourself for fucks sake, why would you obey an oath and law that is based on lies when its your life and those of your friends fighting the battle? use the chain of command? the top of the chain was the ones he was exposing again where is the logic here? tell the corrupt people they are corrupt? then you have this made up argument that has not one shred of evidence that he was putting the lives of his companions in danger, lol really? show me, prove it, do you not find it odd that you do not apply the same logic to the people above him putting their lives in danger as well? you are the people that withheld the blacks rights, the people who argue against gays etc..
grow up you mental midgets, become an adult and think for yourself.
if a law is morally corrupt i would not follow it just as you do not for many so called laws.
this is my only experience of people like you guys and i realize why the world is laughing as the looneys try to take hold. you got John Bonner walking out on talks like its nothing and you cheer him on towards tyrannical state. He handed out bribe checks for the tabacco lobby on the floor of congress HAHAHAHAHHAHAH, supporting him and his party of liars and thieves is ridiculous. Obama sucks just like ive been saying all along, you need a serious change or your country is going in the shitter.
Dead on, the kid put his own neck on the line to expose the kind of traitors that want to destroy our country.
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Here is what Bradley Manning signed when he was granted a security clearance: CLASSIFIED INFORMATION NONDISCLOSURE AGREEMENT
http://www.archives.gov/isoo/security-forms/sf312.pdf
1. Intending to be legally bound, I hereby accept the obligations contained in this Agreement in consideration of my being
granted access to classified information. As used in this Agreement, classified information is marked or unmarked classified
information, including oral communications, that is classified under the standards of Executive Order 12958, or under any
other Executive order or statute that prohibits the unauthorized disclosure of information in the interest of national security;
and unclassified information that meets the standards for classification and is in the process of a classification determination
as provided in Sections 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4(e) of Executive Order 12958, or under any other Executive order or statute that
requires protection for such information in the interest of national security. I understand and accept that by being granted
access to classified information, special confidence and trust shall be placed in me by the United States Government.
2. I hereby acknowledge that I have received a security indoctrination concerning the nature and protection of classified
information, including the procedures to be followed in ascertaining whether other persons to whom I contemplate disclosing
this information have been approved for access to it, and that I understand these procedures.
3. I have been advised that the unauthorized disclosure, unauthorized retention, or negligent handling of classified information
by me could cause damage or irreparable injury to the United States or could be used to advantage by a foreign nation. I
hereby agree that I will never divulge classified information to anyone unless: (a) I have officially verified that the recipient has
been properly authorized by the United States Government to receive it; or (b) I have been given prior written notice of
authorization from the United States Government Department or Agency (hereinafter Department or Agency) responsible for
the classification of the information or last granting me a security clearance that such disclosure is permitted. I understand
that if I am uncertain about the classification status of information, I am required to confirm from an authorized official that
the information is unclassified before I may disclose it, except to a person as provided in (a) or (b), above. I further understand
that I am obligated to comply with laws and regulations that prohibit the unauthorized disclosure of classified information.
4. I have been advised that any breach of this Agreement may result in the termination of any security clearances I hold;
removal from any position of special confidence and trust requiring such clearances; or the termination of my employment or
other relationships with the Departments or Agencies that granted my security clearance or clearances. In addition, I have
been advised that any unauthorized disclosure of classified information by me may constitute a violation, or violations, of
United States criminal laws, including the provisions of Sections 641, 793, 794, 798, *952 and 1924, Title 18, United States
Code, * the provisions of Section 783(b), Title 50, United States Code, and the provisions of the Intelligence Identities
Protection Act of 1982. I recognize that nothing in this Agreement constitutes a waiver by the United States of the right to
prosecute me for any statutory violation.
5. I hereby assign to the United States Government all royalties, remunerations, and emoluments that have resulted, will
result or may result from any disclosure, publication, or revelation of classified information not consistent with the terms of
this Agreement.
6. I understand that the United States Government may seek any remedy available to it to enforce this Agreement including,
but not limited to, application for a court order prohibiting disclosure of information in breach of this Agreement.
7. I understand that all classified information to which I have access or may obtain access by signing this Agreement is now
and will remain the property of, or under the control of the United States Government unless and until otherwise determined
by an authorized official or final ruling of a court of law. I agree that I shall return all classified materials which have, or may
come into my possession or for which I am responsible because of such access: (a) upon demand by an authorized
representative of the United States Government; (b) upon the conclusion of my employment or other relationship with the
Department or Agency that last granted me a security clearance or that provided me access to classified information; or (c)
upon the conclusion of my employment or other relationship that requires access to classified information. If I do not return
such materials upon request, I understand that this may be a violation of Section 793 and/or 1924, Title 18, United States
Code, a United States criminal law.
8. Unless and until I am released in writing by an authorized representative of the United States Government, I understand
that all conditions and obligations imposed upon me by this Agreement apply during the time I am granted access to classified
information, and at all times thereafter.
9. Each provision of this Agreement is severable. If a court should find any provision of this Agreement to be unenforceable,
all other provisions of this Agreement shall remain in full force and effect.
10. These restrictions are consistent with and do not supersede, conflict with or otherwise alter the employee obligations,
rights or liabilities created by Executive Order 12958; Section 7211 of Title 5, United States Code (governing disclosures to
Congress); Section 1034 of Title 10, United States Code, as amended by the Military Whistleblower Protection Act (governing
disclosure to Congress by members of the military): Section 2302(b)( 8 ) of Title 5, United States Code, as amended by the
Whistleblower Protection Act (governing disclosures of illegality, waste, fraud, abuse or public health or safety threats); the
Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 (50 U.S.C. 421 et seq.) (governing disclosures that expose confidential
Government agents), and the statutes which protect against disclosure that may compromise the national security, including
Sections 641, 793, 794, 798, 952 and 1924 of Title 18, United States Code, and Section 4(b) of the Subversive Activities
Act of 1950 (50 U.S.C. Section 783(b)). The definitions, requirements, obligations, rights, sanctions and liabilities created by
said Executive Order and listed statutes are incorporated into this Agreement and are controlling.
11. I have read this Agreement carefully and my questions, if any, have been answered. I acknowledge that the briefing
officer has made available to me the Executive Order and statutes referenced in this Agreement and its implementing
regulation (32 CFR Section 2003.20) so that I may read them at this time, if I so choose.
9. Each provision of this Agreement is severable. If a court should find any provision of this Agreement to be unenforceable,
all other provisions of this Agreement shall remain in full force and effect.
Doesn't matter. With all of the reported incidences that occurred with Manning, his security clearance should have been yanked and been given a medical discharge.
Guy was sending pictures of himself in women's clothes to commanding officers, wearing makeup in uniform, punched a female officer, etc.....poor kid was Section 8 like no other. He went nuts a long time ago and keeping him there because there was a shortage of people with the smarts to operate the systems was the big mistake.
I wanted to hang this kid at first because I got friends I served with out there until the details came out. Honestly, this just needs to go away very fast and new guidelines need to be established for holding classified information.
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Doesn't matter. With all of the reported incidences that occurred with Manning, his security clearance should have been yanked and been given a medical discharge.
Guy was sending pictures of himself in women's clothes to commanding officers, wearing makeup in uniform, punched a female officer, etc.....poor kid was Section 8 like no other. He went nuts a long time ago and keeping him there because there was a shortage of people with the smarts to operate the systems was the big mistake.
I wanted to hang this kid at first because I got friends I served with out there until the details came out. Honestly, this just needs to go away very fast and new guidelines need to be established for holding classified information.
What doesn't matter? That he's a traitor?
They don't need new guidelines. They need to enforce the existing laws, and severely punish the traitors like Manning who break the law.
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Too bad he's only facing life in prison.
Bradley Manning faces court-martial in WikiLeaks case
By the CNN Wire Staff
updated 9:37 PM EST, Fri February 3, 2012
(CNN) -- Pfc. Bradley E. Manning, who is suspected of leaking hundreds of thousands of secret documents to the WikiLeaks website, will be court-martialed on charges that could lead to a sentence of life in prison, the Army said Friday in a statement.
Manning, 24, faces charges that include aiding the enemy, wrongfully causing intelligence to be published on the Internet, theft of public property or records, transmitting defense information, and fraud and related activity in connection with computers.
If convicted of all charges, he would face a maximum sentence of life in prison, reduction to the lowest enlisted pay grade, E-1; forfeiture of pay and allowances; and a dishonorable discharge. Aiding the enemy is a capital offense, but the investigating officer endorsed the view of military prosecutors not to seek the death penalty.
The U.S. Army Trial Judiciary will appoint a military judge who will set the date for Manning's arraignment, motion hearings and trial, the statement said.
Manning is accused of orchestrating the biggest intelligence leak in U.S. history. During the Article 32 proceedings in December, prosecutors presented evidence that Manning allegedly communicated with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange in a series of Internet chats about uploading 700 Guantanamo Bay detainee interrogation reports.
Prosecutors charge that Manning put software on secure computers that allowed him to download classified material and burn it to a compact disc. Manning was assigned as an intelligence analyst in Iraq and had a top-secret clearance. He worked in a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, known as SCIF.
Manning is being held in military custody.
At the Article 32 hearing, Manning's defense lawyer, David Coombs, focused most of his attention on two issues: lack of security at the SCIF and the Army's lack of response to Manning's emotional and behavior problems.
WikiLeaks, the international online group that publishes secret government documents it receives from outside sources, set off a firestorm a year and a half ago when it made public on its website U.S. diplomatic cables and other sensitive documents, most of them pertaining to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
The disclosure of hundreds of the documents continues to cast a shadow over the U.S. intelligence community.
Director of National Intelligence James Clapper told an information-sharing conference last month that plugging leaks of classified materials is still a challenge for the community as it develops new systems to protect information, while at the same time ensuring the right people have access to it.
The fact that Manning had access to so much secret information called into question whether the government had gone too far in responding to one of the biggest failures associated with the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The intelligence community and law enforcement were faulted for failing to share information that might have prevented the attacks.
Clapper called the WikiLeaks disclosure a "terrible event" that heightened the intelligence community's sensitivity to inside threats. He said changes have already been made to monitor information and keep track of who has access to it. But he said it is a work in progress.
"We have to do more to both tag data and ensure that we can properly identify people so that they are actually authorized to receive the information," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/03/justice/wikileaks-manning-court-martial/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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This kid caused alot of harm to US troops operating in Iraq and Afghanistan. There will be no military vote for Paul. Another reason he's an assbag and WILL NEVER GET THE NOMINATION. When your beloved Paul sounds alot like the Leftist dirtbags who hate America its time to relook at your candidate.
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/ron-paul-says-accused-traitor-is-a-patriot/
As homosexual Army soldier Bradley Manning’s treason trial continues at Fort Meade, Maryland, the support he has received from Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul has been curiously ignored by the major media, now touting Paul as someone who could win the January 3 Iowa Republican Caucuses. Paul has called Manning, a crossdresser with acknowledged mental problems, a “hero” and “patriot” for stealing government secrets and providing them to WikiLeaks.
Oh, but it gets better.
However, speaking at a campaign rally, Paul said that while Manning may have “technically” broken the law against releasing classified information to WikiLeaks, he did so for the purpose of exposing the “horrible things” being carried out by the U.S. Government.
Referring to Manning’s detention before trial, Paul said, “Should he be locked up and imprisoned?” Manning should be seen as a “political hero” and “true patriot who reveals what’s going on,” Paul said.
The Bradley Manning Support Network published an article saying that Paul believes that Manning is a “whistleblower” and his actions “are essential to the country.”
/quote]
In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
- Notebook, 1904
Man is the only Patriot. He sets himself apart in his own country, under his own flag, and sneers at the other nations, and keeps multitudinous uniformed assassins on hand at heavy expense to grab slices of other people's countries, and keep them from grabbing slices of his. And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood of his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man"- with his mouth.
- "The Lowest Animal"
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Yeah we love him hahaahahahahaahahahaahah . The Obamabots tried this crap in 2008. 100 individual donors (and not all were "Military", some were DoD Civs and Contractors). So can we really make broad judgements about the military based on that number? We went over this last election.....when the Obamabots were screaming that the military loved Obama. Yeah...you saw a sea of McCain stickers and the occasional Obama sticker...on a black DOD civilians car. Further...RP wants to cut the military and DOD. Its already happening with DOD civilians...do u think they're going to support RP? You guy is nuts...you know he's nuts and statements siding with a treasonous piece of shit like Manning only confirm it....yet you want to attack the part about military donantions.....wrong again.
So you like being in Middle East ground killing people for..what..??
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No military vote for Ron Paul? Is that why he's received more military donations than all the other Republican candidates combined?
Fast owning right there...
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u people are some backwards thinking fucks man, jesus is this what the states is like you have these extreme right wing crazies taking over and claiming that because he broke his oath to a corrupt government that was putting his life and others on the line for lies and greed he should be punished, LOL the logic in you people is absurd.
you have these black and white views on life and im sorry life is not like that think for yourself for fucks sake, why would you obey an oath and law that is based on lies when its your life and those of your friends fighting the battle? use the chain of command? the top of the chain was the ones he was exposing again where is the logic here? tell the corrupt people they are corrupt? then you have this made up argument that has not one shred of evidence that he was putting the lives of his companions in danger, lol really? show me, prove it, do you not find it odd that you do not apply the same logic to the people above him putting their lives in danger as well? you are the people that withheld the blacks rights, the people who argue against gays etc..
grow up you mental midgets, become an adult and think for yourself.
if a law is morally corrupt i would not follow it just as you do not for many so called laws.
this is my only experience of people like you guys and i realize why the world is laughing as the looneys try to take hold. you got John Bonner walking out on talks like its nothing and you cheer him on towards tyrannical state. He handed out bribe checks for the tabacco lobby on the floor of congress HAHAHAHAHHAHAH, supporting him and his party of liars and thieves is ridiculous. Obama sucks just like ive been saying all along, you need a serious change or your country is going in the shitter.
Q&HFT
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Manning fulfilled moral duty, conscience of US on trial
He's seen by many as one of the world's most renowned whistleblowers, but an enemy of the state by the US government. Now soldier Bradley Manning can be heard in his own voice explaining why he sent hundreds of thousands of classified documents to Wikileaks in 2010. In a new leaked audio recording from his court martial, Manning accuses the American army of not valuing human life, and says he wanted to provoke a debate about US foreign policy. LISTEN TO MANNING'S TESTIMONY HERE:
http://rt.com/usa/manning-trial-recording-leak-177/
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Manning fulfilled moral duty, conscience of US on trial
this x10000
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This shitbag is no hero and didn't do shit to usher in Arab Spring. If found guilty, he needs to be shot.
Words of wisdom. Keep up the good work Skip.