Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums

Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 02:25:34 PM

Title: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 02:25:34 PM
Nice 425lb pull after a 330lb 12" box squat at bodyweight of a whopping 153lbs!! He's a 20 year old soccer player..


Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 02:28:03 PM
is this supposed to be impressive?



I'm sure it's nothing compared to you..."stud".
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Man of Steel on October 01, 2012, 02:30:11 PM
Just shy of a triple bodyweight pull.......dang.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 02:32:24 PM
a midget cant be a good soccer player either

LA Galaxy thought different.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Snorlax on October 01, 2012, 02:34:01 PM
Put the 425 on the barbell and see if he can do it  ;)
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: 240_Iz_Nutz on October 01, 2012, 02:35:59 PM
Honestly, that trap bar makes a crazy difference. Impressive lift still, but what can he hit on a regular dead?
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 02:36:09 PM
Put the 425 on the barbell and see if he can do it  ;)

Pretty rare when I use a straight bar DL on my athletes. We prefer trap bar.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 02:37:36 PM
Honestly, that trap bar makes a crazy difference. Impressive lift still, but what can he hit on a regular dead?

Probably high three hundreds maybe 400. This kid has some crazy ass strength.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Grape Ape on October 01, 2012, 02:38:01 PM
Nice 425lb pull after a 330lb 12" box squat at bodyweight of a whopping 153lbs!! He's a 20 year old soccer player..




How do you measure proper box squat height.  I would assume it would change according to the height or leg length of the person.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 02:40:50 PM
How do you measure proper box squat height.  I would assume it would change according to the height or leg length of the person.

We measure to parallel or just below. This is all of 5'3 so he was a hair below parallel.  
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: jwb on October 01, 2012, 02:43:11 PM
Buy some new plates you tightwad!
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 02:44:26 PM
Buy some new plates you tightwad!


Hahaha, why? These work just fine. lol
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: G_Thang on October 01, 2012, 02:48:09 PM
why are you trying to bulk up a soccer player?  even if he was a holding mid-fielder, that fucker has to run a quarter marathon per game.  no wonder usa soccer players suck ass.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Schmoff on October 01, 2012, 02:49:41 PM
wtf?

how tall? 4'?
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 02:50:23 PM
why are you trying to bulk up a soccer player?  even if he was a holding mid-fielder, that fucker has to run a quarter marathon per game.  no wonder usa soccer players suck ass.

Who says I'm "bulking" him up? He's not training for bodybuilding.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Emmortal on October 01, 2012, 02:54:00 PM
why are you trying to bulk up a soccer player?  even if he was a holding mid-fielder, that fucker has to run a quarter marathon per game.  no wonder usa soccer players suck ass.

You aren't well versed in strength training.  European football clubs do similar training with athletes.  You wouldn't know that though.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: funk51 on October 01, 2012, 02:55:17 PM
Pretty rare when I use a straight bar DL on my athletes. We prefer trap bar.
coach do you think the trap bar decreases the chance of injury? esp torn biceps. the twist arm seems to rip on a lot of guys.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: flipper5470 on October 01, 2012, 02:57:16 PM
Heavy lifts do not require or necessarily lead to  "bulk"...it's as much about technique and explosive ability as anything else.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: rocket on October 01, 2012, 03:05:18 PM
Efficient use of muscle.

coach do you think the trap bar decreases the chance of injury? esp torn biceps. the twist arm seems to rip on a lot of guys.

Trap bar corrects your posture so that your lower back doesn't get destroyed from poor lifting technique.  It's also a lift from higher up start which makes it easier.  Never felt any biceps risk on either lift though you do hear about it on the internet.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Skeletor on October 01, 2012, 03:08:57 PM
Pretty rare when I use a straight bar DL on my athletes. We prefer trap bar.

Why the preference for trap bar over straight bar?
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: flipper5470 on October 01, 2012, 03:19:26 PM
Efficient use of muscle.

Trap bar corrects your posture so that your lower back doesn't get destroyed from poor lifting technique.  It's also a lift from higher up start which makes it easier.  Never felt any biceps risk on either lift though you do hear about it on the internet.

I suffered a distal bicep tear...completely off the bone..in 2009.  To this day I fear deadlifts.   Maybe I'm just a candyass?
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: dj181 on October 01, 2012, 04:17:10 PM
why are you trying to bulk up a soccer player?  even if he was a holding mid-fielder, that fucker has to run a quarter marathon per game.  no wonder usa soccer players suck ass.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Van_Bilderass on October 01, 2012, 04:19:14 PM
Please don't call this a deadlift. Shame on you Coach.

Even the handles are higher off the ground, not to mention the line of pull. If he pulled 4x his bodyweight like this it would be pretty good.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: dr.chimps on October 01, 2012, 04:24:55 PM
Please don't call this a deadlift. Shame on you Coach.

Even the handles are higher off the ground, not to mention the line of pull. If he pulled 4x his bodyweight like this it would be pretty good.
Are you saying Coach's lifts are as exaggerated as his political claims?


/cheap shot. apologies. not really.   ;D
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on October 01, 2012, 04:30:02 PM
helps when you only have to lift the bar 3 inches
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Van_Bilderass on October 01, 2012, 04:30:38 PM
Are you saying Coach's lifts are as exaggerated as his political claims?


/cheap shot. apologies. not really.   ;D

This is an ego massage for the kid. Same with the box squats.

I'd love to see a side-view of the "below parallel" box squat.

I'd guesstimate 320lbs dead and 260lbs squat.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: jaejonna on October 01, 2012, 04:31:48 PM
Did you 'soap' the 'stud' down later after the modified 'DL' ?
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: dr.chimps on October 01, 2012, 04:46:04 PM
This is an ego massage for the kid. Same with the box squats.

I'd love to see a side-view of the "below parrallel" box squat.

I'd guesstimate 320lbs dead and 260lbs squat.
Got it. Not an ounce of humour or irony. Dutch: through and through.  ;D
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Grape Ape on October 01, 2012, 04:48:05 PM
This is an ego massage for the kid. Same with the box squats.

I'd love to see a side-view of the "below parrallel" box squat.

I'd guesstimate 320lbs dead and 260lbs squat.

His free squat will be higher.

http://www.westside-barbell.com/westside-articles/PDF.Files/05PDF/BOX%20SQUATTING%20BENEFITS.pdf
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Pericles on October 01, 2012, 04:50:19 PM
Why is he staring at the ceiling? Don't teach a neutral neck?
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Van_Bilderass on October 01, 2012, 04:51:26 PM
His free squat will be higher.

http://www.westside-barbell.com/westside-articles/PDF.Files/05PDF/BOX%20SQUATTING%20BENEFITS.pdf

You mean higher than his box squat? Absolutely not in this case. I'd love to prove it, but then Coach would have to film the lifts and it will never happen.

Box squatting Westside style is mostly beneficial for suit lifting which doesn't have much to do with
regular squatting.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Metabolic on October 01, 2012, 04:57:40 PM
Pretty rare when I use a straight bar DL on my athletes. We prefer trap bar.

Do your atheletes prefer tren ace or tren enanthate?

Also, why are your athletes pussies and use trap bars?
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 05:04:35 PM
Lmao of what this thread has turned into. Lol Van, you're usually pretty good.bit you're waaaay off on this one.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Van_Bilderass on October 01, 2012, 05:06:02 PM
Lmao of what this thread has turned into. Lol Van, you're usually pretty good.bit you're waaaay off on this one.

Film some lifts for me. :D
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: 99 Bananas on October 01, 2012, 05:06:42 PM
Being that short I'd imagine that guy has to look up to the average female. He won't recover.

I see it like this - him having any random encounter and it turns into this = hahahahahahahaahah

(http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/22/4979e606c92571c318a8b005dd2704af/l.jpg)
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Grape Ape on October 01, 2012, 05:21:06 PM
You mean higher than his box squat? Absolutely not in this case. I'd love to prove it, but then Coach would have to film the lifts and it will never happen.

Box squatting Westside style is mostly beneficial for suit lifting which doesn't have much to do with
regular squatting.

Never read about the suit aspect, but what I've read that there's a certain weight correlation between the box and the competition squat.  The exact opposite of the trap bar lift.

Anyway, how do you know about this kid's particular squat?  What are you basing it on?
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Van_Bilderass on October 01, 2012, 05:41:54 PM
Never read about the suit aspect, but what I've read that there's a certain weight correlation between the box and the competition squat.  The exact opposite of the trap bar lift.

Anyway, how do you know about this kid's particular squat?  What are you basing it on?

I admit that I'm guessing here somewhat, but the guess is based seeing a lot over the years.
I'm assuming the kid box squats with a wider stance than he would do a "normal" squat. And hitting real depth on a box takes a lot of practise for most. Has this kid spent years box squatting and training his technique to hit a below parallel wide-stance box squat? Unlikely for a soccer player.

Yes, the box squat would be lower if one were doing an Olympic style squat, and deloading the quads before powering back up, but that's not how most of these kid "athletes" do it. More like bouncing back up. :D

The Westsiders mostly lift in feds where they wide stance squat to a shallower depth than in the IPF for example. The box squat isn't that popular in the IPF for a reason.

I'm guessing the squat here looks something like this. Slightly above parallel and "touch and go" technique. For someone who isn't a very experienced lifter, say a young soccer player, it boosts the loads you can use.

(http://www.diablocrossfit.com/uploads/diablo/image/diablo%20crossfit%20karlyn%20box%20squats.JPG)

Or worse, like this. Double your loads.  :D

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/3663647083_de240bd97c.jpg)
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Grape Ape on October 01, 2012, 05:48:24 PM
I admit that I'm guessing here somewhat, but the guess is based seeing a lot over the years.
I'm assuming the kid box squats with a wider stance than he would do a "normal" squat. And hitting real depth on a box takes a lot of practise for most. Has this kid spent years box squatting and training his technique to hit a below parallel wide-stance box squat? Unlikely for a soccer player.

Yes, the box squat would be lower if one were doing an Olympic style squat, and deloading the quads before powering back up, but that's not how most of these kid "athletes" do it. More like bouncing back up. :D

The Westsiders mostly lift in feds where they wide stance squat to a shallower depth than in the IPF for example. The box squat isn't that popular in the IPF for a reason.

I guess I don't understand why he would do wide stances on the box, but then modify it when he squats "normally".   It sounds to me like he's hitting below parallel, and he's short, so, although I'm guessing too, I'm thinking he squats more than the 260 you guessed.  Plus, I'm guessing that since he's training with Coach, he's doing the exercise correctly.   Plus 12" box is pretty low.

Coach - how does his free squat compare to his 12" box squat.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Van_Bilderass on October 01, 2012, 05:59:28 PM
I guess I don't understand why he would do wide stances on the box, but then modify it when he squats "normally".   It sounds to me like he's hitting below parallel, and he's short, so, although I'm guessing too, I'm thinking he squats more than the 260 you guessed.  Plus, I'm guessing that since he's training with Coach, he's doing the exercise correctly.   Plus 12" box is pretty low.

Coach - how does his free squat compare to his 12" box squat.

I don't even know if he does "normal" squats. You know how long it often takes to learn proper squatting technique before it's even smart to really start loading the exercise? Does the kid have the time, does Coach have the time to teach a kid to squat for months over months?

I mean, that's probably why Coach doesn't like regular deads. It takes so much drilling to teach someone to deadlift properly before you can really load the exercise. Trap bar, just squat the weight, try to take the back completely out of the exercise. :D
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Grape Ape on October 01, 2012, 06:33:18 PM
I don't even know if he does "normal" squats. You know how long it often takes to learn proper squatting technique before it's even smart to really start loading the exercise? Does the kid have the time, does Coach have the time to teach a kid to squat for months over months?

I mean, that's probably why Coach doesn't like regular deads. It takes so much drilling to teach someone to deadlift properly before you can really load the exercise. Trap bar, just squat the weight, try to take the back completely out of the exercise. :D

I don't think it's a stretch to have learned proper squatting technique by age 20, especially if you're training with someone who teaches it for a living.

As far a the trap bar, I like it so much better that I bought one for my house.  I don't compete, but I do prefer to strength train, and I think it lessens the likelyhood of a biceps tear.  Plus, you can flip the thing upside down if you need the depth of a straight bar.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: jude2 on October 01, 2012, 07:16:15 PM
Not shit Coach, best lift in a powerlifting meet was 570# deadlift at 148# in Jackson Mississippi.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Trapper_Slapper on October 01, 2012, 07:28:09 PM
I admit that I'm guessing here somewhat, but the guess is based seeing a lot over the years.
I'm assuming the kid box squats with a wider stance than he would do a "normal" squat. And hitting real depth on a box takes a lot of practise for most. Has this kid spent years box squatting and training his technique to hit a below parallel wide-stance box squat? Unlikely for a soccer player.

Yes, the box squat would be lower if one were doing an Olympic style squat, and deloading the quads before powering back up, but that's not how most of these kid "athletes" do it. More like bouncing back up. :D

The Westsiders mostly lift in feds where they wide stance squat to a shallower depth than in the IPF for example. The box squat isn't that popular in the IPF for a reason.

I'm guessing the squat here looks something like this. Slightly above parallel and "touch and go" technique. For someone who isn't a very experienced lifter, say a young soccer player, it
boosts the loads you can use.

(http://www.diablocrossfit.com/uploads/diablo/image/diablo%20crossfit%20karlyn%20box%20squats.JPG)




THAT ASS!!!
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa126/speedcheeser/forum%20funnies/lawd.gif)
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 07:52:54 PM
I admit that I'm guessing here somewhat, but the guess is based seeing a lot over the years.
I'm assuming the kid box squats with a wider stance than he would do a "normal" squat. And hitting real depth on a box takes a lot of practise for most. Has this kid spent years box squatting and training his technique to hit a below parallel wide-stance box squat? Unlikely for a soccer player.

Yes, the box squat would be lower if one were doing an Olympic style squat, and deloading the quads before powering back up, but that's not how most of these kid "athletes" do it. More like bouncing back up. :D

The Westsiders mostly lift in feds where they wide stance squat to a shallower depth than in the IPF for example. The box squat isn't that popular in the IPF for a reason.

I'm guessing the squat here looks something like this. Slightly above parallel and "touch and go" technique. For someone who isn't a very experienced lifter, say a young soccer player, it boosts the loads you can use.

(http://www.diablocrossfit.com/uploads/diablo/image/diablo%20crossfit%20karlyn%20box%20squats.JPG)

Or worse, like this. Double your loads.  :D

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/3663647083_de240bd97c.jpg)

You're assuming that we're doing a traditional 'westside" box squat. They don't (I do) when I refer to box squat for my athletes it is "touch and go" and in this case it was a legit 12" box, this insures that squat depth is met. We do take a little wider stance than normal to again, insure that posterior chain is being recruited. It's not much different than a "free" squat. Now, we do follow a westside TEMPLATE that's suited to our standards. ME Lower, ME upper, day off (soft tissue work, etc) speed lower, speed upper. Program varies as a season progresses.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 07:59:02 PM
You mean higher than his box squat? Absolutely not in this case. I'd love to prove it, but then Coach would have to film the lifts and it will never happen.

Box squatting Westside style is mostly beneficial for suit lifting which doesn't have much to do with
regular squatting.

Lot's of NFL teams as well as college are following a westside template.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 08:07:07 PM
I don't even know if he does "normal" squats. You know how long it often takes to learn proper squatting technique before it's even smart to really start loading the exercise? Does the kid have the time, does Coach have the time to teach a kid to squat for months over months?

I mean, that's probably why Coach doesn't like regular deads. It takes so much drilling to teach someone to deadlift properly before you can really load the exercise. Trap bar, just squat the weight, try to take the back completely out of the exercise. :D

We assess everyone for squat using overhead squats with a PVC pipe. We check hips (depth), thoracic mobility, external rotation (shoulders), dorsi-flexion, vulgas/vulgam, foot pronation. If they can't do that or score low, of course it takes time. Not everyone can squat, not everyone is built to squat.....so they don't squat (with a spinal load) they will however goblet squat. It's a great way to correct a poor squat.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 08:21:41 PM
Why the preference for trap bar over straight bar?

We use trap on heavy days. Safer, less lumbar tension (less flexion). We use a straight bar on speed days using sub-maximal loads. They're not powerlifters so there are variations.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 01, 2012, 08:23:12 PM
Why is he staring at the ceiling? Don't teach a neutral neck?

Yeah, we actually teach to keep eyes neutral....obviously he didn't listen. LOL
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: 240_Iz_Nutz on October 01, 2012, 09:09:23 PM
Trap bar deads in family/commercial type gym cause eyes to pop.  It is true there isn't much risk. Heavy and fun. You can either lift it, most of the time easily, or miss. You really can cause a bunch of potential injuries with a barbell.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: BigCyp on October 02, 2012, 02:19:12 AM
Good lift considering it was 1840
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on October 02, 2012, 02:20:02 AM
Nice 425lb pull after a 330lb 12" box squat at bodyweight of a whopping 153lbs!! He's a 20 year old soccer player..




fucker could probably tie his shoelaces standing up.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: PJim on October 02, 2012, 02:28:40 AM
Always use the trap bar for deads. Much more natural positioning.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: dj181 on October 02, 2012, 02:33:41 AM
Always use the trap bar for deads. Much more natural positioning.

Mentzer would not agree >:(
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: PJim on October 02, 2012, 02:48:29 AM
Mentzer would not agree >:(

Haha. I have very short arms, I can't use an olympic bar whilst keeping the correct posture through my back. The trap bar seems to suit my long legs, short torso, short arms very well.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: PJim on October 02, 2012, 02:53:53 AM
fucker could probably tie his shoelaces standing up.

He'd make a good burglar; his arse is where his footprints are.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: SilverSpoon on October 02, 2012, 03:55:35 AM
Coach, you are aware that the nefarious Crossfit has infiltrated Westside, correct?

Very solid lifts for a man that small in stature.

In college, I was hitting 400 on the trap bar (non elevated handles--it was a custom Jim Sutherland model--he invented the hydraulic squat stands) at a bw of 175.  Decent weight for a tennis player.

Is this kid on house arrest?  Why the ankle bracelet?
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: funk51 on October 02, 2012, 08:03:53 AM
I suffered a distal bicep tear...completely off the bone..in 2009.  To this day I fear deadlifts.   Maybe I'm just a candyass?
or smart. ;D
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 02, 2012, 09:50:40 AM
Coach, you are aware that the nefarious Crossfit has infiltrated Westside, correct?

Very solid lifts for a man that small in stature.

In college, I was hitting 400 on the trap bar (non elevated handles--it was a custom Jim Sutherland model--he invented the hydraulic squat stands) at a bw of 175.  Decent weight for a tennis player.

Is this kid on house arrest?  Why the ankle bracelet?

I know they like crossfit but not sure what form of "crossfit" they like. I'm not even sure crossfit knows what they are. I just know in general I don't agree with it whether westside endorses it or not. As far as the ankle bracelet, I'll keep that to myself. He's a kid and is learning a lesson.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on October 02, 2012, 11:59:39 AM
.

Is this kid on house arrest?  Why the ankle bracelet?

He'd make a good burglar; his arse is where his footprints are.

way to publicize his crime, coach
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 08, 2012, 02:23:52 PM
Film some lifts for me. :D

From today....


Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on October 08, 2012, 02:30:51 PM
From today....




lol @ the spotter.  rack it, rack it, rack it NOW!!!
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: WOOO on October 08, 2012, 02:34:11 PM
meh...

425lb deadlift would be impressive

if it was a chick
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: #1 Klaus fan on October 09, 2012, 02:53:18 AM
Only in weight training this shit flys. Imagine someone saying "I'm super smart for a retard".
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Van_Bilderass on October 09, 2012, 04:26:04 AM
From today....




Thanks. I still say about 260, maybe 280, if breaking parallel. One inch lower than that and he would lose at least 50lbs, and that is a few inches above parallel.
I'm just too good... just a pic and I can tell what someone squats. ;D Now film a circa max deadlift.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: WOOO on October 09, 2012, 04:33:10 AM
Q: why would you have a speed/endurance athlete complete single rep max lifts?

A: because you don't have a clue
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: oldtimer1 on October 09, 2012, 08:07:59 AM
I found I can lift 100lbs over my deadlift with a trap bar. First the handles are higher than a barbell. The position also gives you a better pulling position.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on October 09, 2012, 08:10:53 AM
I admit that I'm guessing here somewhat, but the guess is based seeing a lot over the years.
I'm assuming the kid box squats with a wider stance than he would do a "normal" squat. And hitting real depth on a box takes a lot of practise for most. Has this kid spent years box squatting and training his technique to hit a below parallel wide-stance box squat? Unlikely for a soccer player.

Yes, the box squat would be lower if one were doing an Olympic style squat, and deloading the quads before powering back up, but that's not how most of these kid "athletes" do it. More like bouncing back up. :D

The Westsiders mostly lift in feds where they wide stance squat to a shallower depth than in the IPF for example. The box squat isn't that popular in the IPF for a reason.

I'm guessing the squat here looks something like this. Slightly above parallel and "touch and go" technique. For someone who isn't a very experienced lifter, say a young soccer player, it boosts the loads you can use.

(http://www.diablocrossfit.com/uploads/diablo/image/diablo%20crossfit%20karlyn%20box%20squats.JPG)

Or worse, like this. Double your loads.  :D

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/3663647083_de240bd97c.jpg)

how do you deload your quads?
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: SilverSpoon on October 09, 2012, 08:11:10 AM
I don't even know if he does "normal" squats. You know how long it often takes to learn proper squatting technique before it's even smart to really start loading the exercise? Does the kid have the time, does Coach have the time to teach a kid to squat for months over months?

I mean, that's probably why Coach doesn't like regular deads. It takes so much drilling to teach someone to deadlift properly before you can really load the exercise. Trap bar, just squat the weight, try to take the back completely out of the exercise. :D

Van, I think that the trap bar is beneficial.  Also, I think you need to be "ass down" on any form of deadlift.  If you are bending over too much, the straight bar will "float" away from your shins too far, and you either lose the lift, or put yourself in a bad position.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: SilverSpoon on October 09, 2012, 08:17:05 AM
Now this is just my opinion, but it looks like your athlete did not "touch and go" on the box.

It looks like he had a fairly hard impact with the box (shearing force, compression of vertebrae, etc.) and then wobbily came out of the lift.

What happened to the old days of Frenn picking his feet up while on the box to "explode" off?  I am not a fan of that either, but why the change?

I am a fan of straight weight.  Own a certain weight by mastering the mechanics of the lift, utilizing the same form you had with the PVC, then the barbell, then 135, then whatever.

If form changes, you did something wrong.  It may be boring, but guess what?  You are never kidding yourself or the trainee.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Van_Bilderass on October 09, 2012, 11:38:07 AM
I didn't even see the box in the vid earlier when I looked at it on my phone. :D

I'm not the professional trainer/coach so I'm not going to criticize too much but I got to say
I wonder about the purpose behind this type of training (for a soccer player).

how do you deload your quads?

Basically you just relax the quads when sitting on the box. Probably explained in the link posted earlier in this thread. Some even lifted the feet up a bit as they sat on the box and then stomped down again, as Silverspoon mentioned. I'm sure some still do but probably not as popular as it used to be.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Van_Bilderass on October 09, 2012, 11:50:04 AM
Also, I think you need to be "ass down" on any form of deadlift.  If you are bending over too much, the straight bar will "float" away from your shins too far, and you either lose the lift, or put yourself in a bad position.

See, I think just the opposite. I think many, many recreational trainers have weak-ass lower backs and that's why they get lower back problems/tweaks from squatting, bent over rows, light deadlifts, anything at all. It's from not doing any real lower back work. Some trainees at the gym always complain that they can't squat or do some other exercise because their lower back is injured, and my humble suggestion is always regular deadlifts and good mornings, but they always look at me like I'm crazy. :D Their instinct always seems to be avoid any further lower back stress. I believe in regular deadlifts, good mornings and so on for lower back. It's a real weak link that doesn't have to be, and though I'm no athletic coach I would think having a strong lower back would help athletes in their sport, in preventing lower back injuries.

Doing heavy trap-bar SQUATS is dangerous for the lower back for these kids because they don't have a strong lower back... get a little out of line and they will for sure tweak their weak-ass lower backs. Just what they are trying to avoid doing this "safe" exercise.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 09, 2012, 12:08:24 PM
Q: why would you have a speed/endurance athlete complete single rep max lifts?

A: because you don't have a clue

Interesting, so you think I just throw programs together without know why? This isn't bodybuilding Jr.

Why would I have a speed athlete complete 1RM's? Because as I've said a million times, speed starts in the weight room, not on a field, speed technique is on the field. You can't get more explosive or faster by just running. In order to develop speed you have to develop power, harder you can apply POWER to the ground by driving that foot under your hip, the faster you'll go. Not only that it takes a lot of power not only to explode in a lineal run, it's takes even more to change direction when in a stride. If athletes are weak in just one area, start looking for on field, non-collision injuries to happen. There ya go, in a nut shell. Anymore questions smartass?

Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on October 09, 2012, 12:09:54 PM
See, I think just the opposite. I think many, many recreational trainers have weak-ass lower backs and that's why they get lower back problems/tweaks from squatting, bent over rows, light deadlifts, anything at all. It's from not doing any real lower back work. Some trainees at the gym always complain that they can't squat or do some other exercise because their lower back is injured, and my humble suggestion is always regular deadlifts and good mornings, but they always look at me like I'm crazy. :D Their instinct always seems to be avoid any further lower back stress. I believe in regular deadlifts, good mornings and so on for lower back. It's a real weak link that doesn't have to be, and though I'm no athletic coach I would think having a strong lower back would help athletes in their sport, in preventing lower back injuries.

Doing heavy trap-bar SQUATS is dangerous for the lower back for these kids because they don't have a strong lower back... get a little out of line and they will for sure tweak their weak-ass lower backs. Just what they are trying to avoid doing this "safe" exercise.

what have you heard about olympic lifters and knee injuries?  seems like the bouncing off the bottom of the movement can't be good on your knees long term.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 09, 2012, 12:16:27 PM
See, I think just the opposite. I think many, many recreational trainers have weak-ass lower backs and that's why they get lower back problems/tweaks from squatting, bent over rows, light deadlifts, anything at all. It's from not doing any real lower back work. Some trainees at the gym always complain that they can't squat or do some other exercise because their lower back is injured, and my humble suggestion is always regular deadlifts and good mornings, but they always look at me like I'm crazy. :D Their instinct always seems to be avoid any further lower back stress. I believe in regular deadlifts, good mornings and so on for lower back. It's a real weak link that doesn't have to be, and though I'm no athletic coach I would think having a strong lower back would help athletes in their sport, in preventing lower back injuries.

Doing heavy trap-bar SQUATS is dangerous for the lower back for these kids because they don't have a strong lower back... get a little out of line and they will for sure tweak their weak-ass lower backs. Just what they are trying to avoid doing this "safe" exercise.

We've never had an injury. Things to remember, if your posterior chain is strong in all areas then you should be confident in the lift. Posterior chain is one of the main priorities in my programming. Also, (and I'm sure you'll argue this point) as I've said before, Trap bar DL is knee dominant while straight bar is more hip dominant.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Van_Bilderass on October 09, 2012, 12:21:39 PM
what have you heard about olympic lifters and knee injuries?  seems like the bouncing off the bottom of the movement can't be good on your knees long term.

I seem to remember that their knee injury rates aren't that alarming, but can't say for sure. Just remember some trainers saying their knees aren't that bad off, all things considering, especially compared to other athletes.

Maybe The Coach knows.

Also, (and I'm sure you'll argue this point) as I've said before, Trap bar DL is knee dominant while straight bar is more hip dominant.

No I'm sure you're right.

What do you do specifically for lower back?
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: syntaxmachine on October 09, 2012, 12:43:40 PM
Are you saying Coach's lifts are as exaggerated as his political claims?


/cheap shot. apologies. not really.   ;D

My dear chimp, there is a substantial difference between claims that are literally incoherent and those that are exaggerated.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 09, 2012, 12:48:00 PM
Hahaha@ syntax trying to act all smart n shit. Lol
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: WOOO on October 09, 2012, 12:50:11 PM
Interesting, so you think I just throw programs together without know why? This isn't bodybuilding Jr.

Why would I have a speed athlete complete 1RM's? Because as I've said a million times, speed starts in the weight room, not on a field, speed technique is on the field. You can't get more explosive or faster by just running. In order to develop speed you have to develop power, harder you can apply POWER to the ground by driving that foot under your hip, the faster you'll go. Not only that it takes a lot of power not only to explode in a lineal run, it's takes even more to change direction when in a stride. If athletes are weak in just one area, start looking for on field, non-collision injuries to happen. There ya go, in a nut shell. Anymore questions smartass?




you're a fool

plyometrics and proper track training would go a lot farther

additionally some crossfit style or olympic powerlifting movements can add value...


please name a professional soccer player who does 1RM squats


please insist that your 'athletes' get a second opinion and read some basic training protocols

http://www.menshealth.com/worldcup/oguchi-onyewu.php (http://www.menshealth.com/worldcup/oguchi-onyewu.php)
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 09, 2012, 12:55:56 PM

you're a fool

plyometrics and proper track training would go a lot farther

additionally some crossfit style or olympic powerlifting movements can add value...


please name a professional soccer player who does 1RM squats


please insist that your 'athletes' get a second opinion and read some basic

http://www.menshealth.com/worldcup/oguchi-onyewu.php (http://www.menshealth.com/worldcup/oguchi-onyewu.php)


Haha, holy shit. Haha. Like we don't do plyos. Ok, so you're one of those who just think track work and plyos is all you need. Lol. Btw, don't cite men's fitness as a reference. You need to keep up with the times, son.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: WOOO on October 09, 2012, 12:59:23 PM
Haha, holy shit. Haha. Like we don't do plyos. Ok, so you're one of those who just think track work and plyos is all you need. Lol. Btw, don't site men's fitness as a reference.

cite

wrong homophone there champ
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 09, 2012, 01:01:58 PM
cite

wrong homophone there champ

Look again genius, I caught it and corrected it
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: WOOO on October 09, 2012, 01:04:53 PM
Look again genius, I caught it and corrected it

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/23395388.jpg)
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: #1 Klaus fan on October 09, 2012, 01:20:23 PM
additionally some crossfit style or olympic powerlifting movements can add value...

I don't know where to start...
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: BB on October 09, 2012, 01:31:27 PM
I found I can lift 100lbs over my deadlift with a trap bar. First the handles are higher than a barbell. The position also gives you a better pulling position.

That seems about right, most lifters I've watched get #75 - 100.

-------------------

what have you heard about olympic lifters and knee injuries?  seems like the bouncing off the bottom of the movement can't be good on your knees long term.

Mostly tendinitis -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1322916/ .

That study also links off to others, osteoarthritis is a big one for heavier classes later in life, but it pretty common in all active sports.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: BB on October 09, 2012, 01:32:31 PM
I don't know where to start...

:D .
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Jay8899 on October 09, 2012, 03:29:20 PM
id be impressed if it was barbell.

either way for your body,although its trap bar,still i nice pull.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Ursus on October 09, 2012, 03:59:08 PM
From today....




I believe that kid hit the bench too hard.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 09, 2012, 04:00:25 PM
I seem to remember that their knee injury rates aren't that alarming, but can't say for sure. Just remember some trainers saying their knees aren't that bad off, all things considering, especially compared to other athletes.

Maybe The Coach knows.

No I'm sure you're right.

What do you do specifically for lower back?

We do a variety of moves. GHR, reverse hyper, RDL, 1RDL, keg carries, Kettle Bell swings (as well as other KB exercises), jump band good mornings, etc.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 09, 2012, 04:01:09 PM
I believe that kid hit the bench too hard.

He actually barely hit it..
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 09, 2012, 04:04:59 PM

you're a fool

plyometrics and proper track training would go a lot farther

additionally some crossfit style or olympic powerlifting movements can add value...


please name a professional soccer player who does 1RM squats


please insist that your 'athletes' get a second opinion and read some basic training protocols

http://www.menshealth.com/worldcup/oguchi-onyewu.php (http://www.menshealth.com/worldcup/oguchi-onyewu.php)


Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Ursus on October 09, 2012, 04:06:01 PM
I would say he hit it slightly harder than I would have liked to see.

Not criticising your work or technique etc just very easy to hurt yourself doing box squats with one moment of carelessness.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 09, 2012, 04:07:22 PM
I would say he hit it slightly harder than I would have liked to see.

Not criticising your work or technique etc just very easy to hurt yourself doing box squats with one moment of carelessness.

I completely understand and agree.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: shiftedShapes on October 09, 2012, 04:09:20 PM
We do a variety of moves. GHR, reverse hyper, RDL, 1RDL, keg carries, Kettle Bell swings (as well as other KB exercises), jump band good mornings, etc.

can I recommend the high windmill if you don't already do it:



I found this exercise after you very helpfully diagnosed me with QL strain.  Back has been bulletproof ever since.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: WOOO on October 09, 2012, 04:12:22 PM


excellent
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Ursus on October 09, 2012, 04:13:24 PM
I have tried pressing KB's

Repping 48's and 52's is easy but 56 is heaviest I have done.

If you are strong you will be good at them but technique (which i greatly lack) is where I fall down. I have done them maybe 6 times in my life for a few sets.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: OTHstrong on October 09, 2012, 04:14:33 PM
Please don't call this a deadlift. Shame on you Coach.

Even the handles are higher off the ground, not to mention the line of pull. If he pulled 4x his bodyweight like this it would be pretty good.
THIS
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 09, 2012, 04:23:03 PM
Please don't call this a deadlift. Shame on you Coach.

Even the handles are higher off the ground, not to mention the line of pull. If he pulled 4x his bodyweight like this it would be pretty good.

Very rarely will you see a straight bar DL in a college setting. There's a reason for that.


Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: WOOO on October 09, 2012, 04:31:37 PM
i bet half of the jagoffs on this board couldn't pull that without straps...

still a midget lift though
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: jaejonna on October 09, 2012, 04:48:31 PM
Such garbage, fuckin modified compact deadlift.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: WOOO on October 09, 2012, 04:49:18 PM
Such garbage, fuckin modified compact deadlift.

video of you pulling 425 unassisted on a straight bar or it didn't happen
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Pericles on October 09, 2012, 04:58:39 PM
Very rarely will you see a straight bar DL in a college setting. There's a reason for that.




Maybe watch some of cresseys videos on how to Trap bar correctly. YOUR athletes will get faster doing them properly and not turning them into a sumo squat
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Ursus on October 09, 2012, 05:05:51 PM
Coach, explain the reason you do not see straight bar deads in the USA please?
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 09, 2012, 05:12:04 PM
Maybe watch some of cresseys videos on how to Trap bar correctly. YOUR athletes will get faster doing them properly and not turning them into a sumo squat

I like Eric, but I'm not a big fan of internet gurus. Cressy got a degree and immediatly became on online persona. His methods are that much different than mine.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Grape Ape on October 09, 2012, 05:15:40 PM
Coach, explain the reason you do not see straight bar deads in the USA please?

?  See them all the time.  Trap bar is a piece of specialty equipment that hasn't saturated gyms yet.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Ursus on October 09, 2012, 05:20:40 PM
We have one in our gym but every gym I have trained at people train deads. That includes my university gyms.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Grape Ape on October 09, 2012, 05:51:42 PM
We have one in our gym but every gym I have trained at people train deads. That includes my university gyms.

I don't get what the problem is with the hex bar.   If somebody starts and can only lift 200lbs, then work up to 400lbs, they're stronger, and athletic performance can increase.

You can always go back to deadlifting with a straight bar, if you want.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: polychronopolous on October 09, 2012, 05:55:12 PM
video of you pulling 425 unassisted on a straight bar or it didn't happen

I wouldn't be surprised if jaejonna could pull 425 with a little bit of work or even now. From what I remember of his pics he had pretty solid back and torso thickness.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: WOOO on October 09, 2012, 06:00:24 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if jaejonna could suck a golf ball through a garden hose. From what I remember of his pics he had pretty beefy cheeks and good jaw thickness.

fixed
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Ursus on October 09, 2012, 06:13:50 PM
I don't get what the problem is with the hex bar.   If somebody starts and can only lift 200lbs, then work up to 400lbs, they're stronger, and athletic performance can increase.

You can always go back to deadlifting with a straight bar, if you want.

I do not have a problem with it at all. I am wondering why normal deadlifts, according to Coach are rare in USA.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Grape Ape on October 09, 2012, 06:33:20 PM
I do not have a problem with it at all. I am wondering why normal deadlifts, according to Coach are rare in USA.

Did mean "you" as in you Ursus, sorry for the confusion.

I guess the way I look at it is, if normal deadlifts are rare, the hex is even more rare.

I guess it depends on the gym.  I was at a gym where the owners were strength, performance and injury recovery specialist, so it wasn't unusal to see any women training deadlifts, no matter what the age.

At Equinox, the trainers pushed them, but most people on their own seemed to ignore them.  I'd guess it's because they have a reputation for being dangerous, or they're just lazy.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 09, 2012, 09:00:16 PM
I do not have a problem with it at all. I am wondering why normal deadlifts, according to Coach are rare in USA.

I think you misunderstood. I meant straight bar dead are rarely used in college or even pro strength programs.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Ursus on October 10, 2012, 09:02:28 AM
See I don't understand that as the DL is the core of power and strength training in my mind.

I also agree hex bar is very rare
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 10, 2012, 10:17:21 AM
See I don't understand that as the DL is the core of power and strength training in my mind.

I also agree hex bar is very rare

Not disagreeing but using a hex with high level athletes cuts the risk of injury waaay down. To many injury risks associated with straight bar which is why it isn't used much with athletes. O-lifts are the primary power movements for athletes, why? Because O-lifts will get you one hell of a lot more explosive than power lifting movements.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Ursus on October 10, 2012, 11:13:18 AM
For sports like soccer, getting better at soccer will make you a better player but IMO strength means very little indeed in this sport. However if I had teh choice to be an average player with average strength or an average player with good strength you can bet what I would take.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: jaejonna on October 10, 2012, 05:41:32 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if jaejonna could pull 425 with a little bit of work or even now. From what I remember of his pics he had pretty solid back and torso thickness.
425 once ? Cmon ...i dont even deadlift every week, but I can def pull that up one time without straps ..hahahahha
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: axestream on October 10, 2012, 06:05:01 PM
i bet half of the jagoffs on this board couldn't pull that without straps...


Nor can they play soccer as well...or even manage to stay within 10 feet from this guy during a 90 min game.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: WOOO on October 10, 2012, 06:14:51 PM
425 once ? Cmon ...i dont even deadlift every week, but I can def pull that up one time without straps ..hahahahha

video of you pulling 425 unassisted on a straight bar or it didn't happen
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: jaejonna on October 10, 2012, 07:38:09 PM
video of you pulling 425 unassisted on a straight bar or it didn't happen
what do i get in return from you 'stud' ?  :-*
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 10, 2012, 07:41:08 PM
Nor can they play soccer as well...or even manage to stay within 10 feet from this guy during a 90 min game.

True, this kids conditioning is off the hook.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: chaos on October 10, 2012, 07:45:47 PM
425 once ? Cmon ...i dont even deadlift every week, but I can def pull that up one time without straps ..hahahahha
LOL @ bragging about pulling 425 and throwing in the "without straps" line at the end. ;D
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: axestream on October 10, 2012, 08:07:42 PM
For sports like soccer, getting better at soccer will make you a better player but IMO strength means very little indeed in this sport. However if I had teh choice to be an average player with average strength or an average player with good strength you can bet what I would take.

It's not technique vs speed vs endurance. If there's any area you can improve on you should work on it. It will make you a better player. There shouldn't even be any discussion about it.
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: WOOO on October 11, 2012, 04:08:07 AM
what do i get in return from you 'stud' ?  :-*

slightly less abuse


LOL @ bragging about pulling 425 and throwing in the "without straps" line at the end. ;D

doubt this queer has touched a weight in years... unless you count his mom's little pink dumbbells
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Ursus on October 11, 2012, 10:11:02 AM
It's not technique vs speed vs endurance. If there's any area you can improve on you should work on it. It will make you a better player. There shouldn't even be any discussion about it.

Exactly what I said however for soccer skill will beat speed and strength 9 time out of 10
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: WOOO on October 11, 2012, 07:18:39 PM
Exactly what I said however for soccer skill will beat speed and strength 9 time out of 10

fine, but you're not making a point... skill + speed&strength is better than skill alone
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 11, 2012, 10:53:39 PM
Exactly what I said however for soccer skill will beat speed and strength 9 time out of 10

I think you maybe missing the point. Part of skill is speed, strength is just as important as skill for the reduction of injury. What good is skill if you're injured?
Title: Re: 425lb DL at 153lbs
Post by: Van_Bilderass on October 12, 2012, 12:22:31 AM
I think you maybe missing the point. Part of skill is speed, strength is just as important as skill for the reduction of injury. What good is skill if you're injured?

If you were concerned with injury prevention you wouldn't
do those box squats.

Not doing barbell deads for fear of injury is complete BS.
Why not switch regular squats to hip-belt squats... I mean you don't
want to hurt that fragile lower back. I see way more lower back tweaks from squats than I ever did from deads.