Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Sam on January 17, 2014, 09:54:56 AM
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Zb8Asv3cc_8/Tzs8q3V_AVI/AAAAAAAAEVQ/miFwpnh_l04/s1600/steve.jpg)
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Vast majority of women will answer that question "yes"....
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Vast majority of women will answer that question "yes"....
you don't know many women, do you?
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Vast majority of women will answer that question "yes"....
Fuck that it's all about the men >:(
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is that basile
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is that basile
Close
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=211495.0;attach=247699;image)
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Zb8Asv3cc_8/Tzs8q3V_AVI/AAAAAAAAEVQ/miFwpnh_l04/s1600/steve.jpg)
most overrated bodybuilder of all time
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most overrated bodybuilder of all time
I almost agree.... everyone fawns over him but o really see nothing that makes me say 'holy shit' like I do with pics of guys like Arnold, Dorian, or Ronnie.
shawn ray is another one that I kinda dont see the fuss over. Yeah he had decent lines, but he wasnt any more aesthetic than some of the other guys... sometimes I think people see small = aesthetic.
dude was a mass monster on a miniature scale.
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What you posted is not his best look. The beach shots he took are most definitely the ideal physique.
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Close
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=211495.0;attach=247699;image)
vince will love this
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I almost agree.... everyone fawns over him but o really see nothing that makes me say 'holy shit' like I do with pics of guys like Arnold, Dorian, or Ronnie.
shawn ray is another one that I kinda dont see the fuss over. Yeah he had decent lines, but he wasnt any more aesthetic than some of the other guys... sometimes I think people see small = aesthetic.
dude was a mass monster on a miniature scale.
True on Shawn but that was compared to the best era ever. Anywhere else he is a god
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Vince looks great!
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In 1949, what other guys looked as good as Reeves?
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Let me take Reeves apart a bit: thick ankles and thick knees, long upper body compared to his lower, take the pretty face and the "magik" is gone.
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In 1949, what other guys looked as good as Reeves?
Exactly it's all context
Show me another all NATURAL guy who was 6'1" 215lbs with perfect proportions and a 29" waist , there has never been another guy who came close
Guy ate 3 times a day , worked out his entire body at once , no supplements to speak of , next to no real equipment , he developed exercises. Who has done more with less?
The guys structure & proportions are unrivaled.
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Exactly it's all context
Show me another all NATURAL guy who was 6'1" 215lbs with perfect proportions and a 29" waist , there has never been another guy who came close
Guy ate 3 times a day , worked out his entire body at once , no supplements to speak of , next to no real equipment , he developed exercises. Who has done more with less?
The guys structure & proportions are unrivaled.
Yes, because he was around before Weider spun his bullshit which is now so commonplace in order to make money.
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Exactly it's all context
Show me another all NATURAL guy who was 6'1" 215lbs with perfect proportions and a 29" waist , there has never been another guy who came close
Guy ate 3 times a day , worked out his entire body at once , no supplements to speak of , next to no real equipment , he developed exercises. Who has done more with less?
The guys structure & proportions are unrivaled.
not natural
a buttfucker (like yourself)
weirdo
(
narcissist ..pun intended
etc etc
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Exactly it's all context
Show me another all NATURAL guy who was 6'1" 215lbs with perfect proportions and a 29" waist , there has never been another guy who came close
Guy ate 3 times a day , worked out his entire body at once , no supplements to speak of , next to no real equipment , he developed exercises. Who has done more with less?
The guys structure & proportions are unrivaled.
Natural??? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=159355.0
Here is an interview with Sergio where he talked about drug use in the 60's and mentions Steve :
BDJ: Could you relay your own experience with drug use?
SO: This is an area of great interest for people. I don't care who wants to take steroids, because that's a personal choice... that's his life. Now, today, everybody has access to them. I even saw in one of the big magazines that Arnold denies having used them, but Arnold was one of the first to bring steroids over to America. And everybody in the old days used them: Zane, Columbu, myself, Arnold, Larry Scott, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, and even Steve Reeves. There's no way to deny it. It wasn't much, nothing like today. But the development of drugs is much different. I used decca and dianabol, and that was something really big at the time; and decca was not considered that bad. It was even prescribed by doctors to help make your bones strong. Today you have guys weighing 200 pounds, and six months later they weigh 250-300 pounds! So you know these guys are taking something unbelievable. When they say they haven't taken any thing, you know that it's phony.
I don't have access to it but I also read an interview where Harold Poole said that Steve took steroids but mainly relied on B12 injections. I think you misinterpreted that I'm some sought of hater on Steve, I'm not. I loved the guy and he's in my top 10 bodybuilders of all time. I'm just being honest, based on what I've read and heard from fellow bodybuilding fans.
SERGIO!!!!
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Natural??? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=159355.0
This
CIBA just started manufacturing dbol around the time of Steeve Reeves and he was their guinea pig
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not natural
a buttfucker (like yourself)
weirdo
(
narcissist ..pun intended
etc etc
Who told you he wasn't natural? The Aliens? ::)
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Natural??? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=159355.0
Do your research , who cares what Sergio said? That makes him feel better about his own drug use.
Anabolics weren't even produced until years AFTER he retired. Don't go off of hearsay.
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This
CIBA just started manufacturing dbol around the time of Steeve Reeves and he was their guinea pig
Wrong. Ciba started years AFTER he retired. Nice try. Reeves retired in 1950 because he won every major competition there was and moved on to Hollywood.
Do the research.
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Do your research , who cares what Sergio said? That makes him feel better about his own drug use.
Anabolics weren't even produced until years AFTER he retired. Don't go off of hearsay.
Dream on son, this is getbig, not bb.com. How do you know exactly when steroids were invented?
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Let me take Reeves apart a bit: thick ankles and thick knees, long upper body compared to his lower, take the pretty face and the "magik" is gone.
I think the dude looked very good for his time, but I never understood the whole "oh, he's so handsome" claptrap. His forehead was a mile high and his brow cast shadows on a pair of rather beady eyes.
He did look better later with facial hair, though, I'll give him that (no homo :D ).
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Dream on son, this is getbig, not bb.com. How do you know exactly when steroids were invented?
We know for a fact when they were. Do the research and find out yourself
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Let me take Reeves apart a bit: thick ankles and thick knees, long upper body compared to his lower, take the pretty face and the "magik" is gone.
:D
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To members of the public NOT into the shaved thongman pageant-life like we are, this is Godly on almost every level.
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/54353/1929600-steve_reeves___photo_bw.jpg)
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I almost agree.... everyone fawns over him but o really see nothing that makes me say 'holy shit' like I do with pics of guys like Arnold, Dorian, or Ronnie.
shawn ray is another one that I kinda dont see the fuss over. Yeah he had decent lines, but he wasnt any more aesthetic than some of the other guys... sometimes I think people see small = aesthetic.
dude was a mass monster on a miniature scale.
pardon me sir......shawn had decent lines???? shawn had some of the very best lines ever!!!
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Reeves looked great for his time...the only guys who came remotely close at that time period were Grimek,and possibly Clancy Ross.
These guys were the pioneers of bodybuilding and had to experiment all the time to see which protocol gave them the best results.
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We know for a fact when they were. Do the research and find out yourself
In my opinion, he is not natural. Your not changing that fact. I bet you also believe he only worked out 1 month out of the year to achieve that physique?
http://www.drkrm.com/reeves.html
SR: No. That's an amazing thing. My body responds so well to exercise, and it keeps it so long, that I didn't have to. I didn't take any steroids, they didn't exist at that time. It was just easy for me to get in shape and to stay in shape. During the 15 years I was in Europe, I would work out possibly one month a year, usually the month of May. I lived in Switzerland most of the time and I would go skiing and take walks with my dog. But the food there was so great that I would gain maybe 10 pounds during the winter. So during May I'd work like son-of-a-gun. Run through the mountains there, use the weights, and get in top form that month, and that would last me through the season. During filming you're too exhausted I get a decent workout, and I really didn't need because the stress that there is in acting kept the fat off me and the muscle didn't want to go away.
LMFAO!!!!!!!!
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In my opinion, he is not natural. Your not changing that fact. I bet you also believe he only worked out 1 month out of the year to achieve that physique?
http://www.drkrm.com/reeves.html
LMFAO!!!!!!!!
You're entitled to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts. Fact is Ciba didn't create d-bol until 1956 , 6 years after Reeves retired. These are facts.
And I actually have the book where that quote is from and you would need to read the book in it's entirety to understand where that quote was coming from. That was AFTER he retired from professional bodybuilding. He didn't achieve that physique from doing that , after he retired Hollywood wanted him to dropped weight for movie roles because he was dwarfing his costars , he went from 215 down to as low as 190
Do the research ;)
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pardon me sir......shawn had decent lines???? shawn had some of the very best lines ever!!!
LMAO best lines ever Shawn was VASTLY overrated
Shawn was short , NARROW , long torso , short legs he had a good looking physique but he's the product of his own hype machine.
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ND beating people over the head with his OPINION again.
you think reeves had perfect proportions...many others don't including me. Does EVERYTHING hage to he an argument to the fucking death with you ?
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ND beating people over the head with his OPINION again.
you think reeves had perfect proportions...many others don't including me. Does EVERYTHING hage to he an argument to the fucking death with you ?
Wrong beating people with FACTS again ;) get it right , FACT is Ciba didn't create D-bol until years after he retired. That's not an opinion. 8)
I have no problem with you thinking he didn't have perfect proportions , I didn't comment on that and in MY opinion he does , and I can back up MY opinion not just type it with you.
There is NO ' argument ' I'm no more arguing than you are.
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Wrong beating people with FACTS again ;) get it right , FACT is Ciba didn't create D-bol until years after he retired. That's not an opinion. 8)
I have no problem with you thinking he didn't have perfect proportions , I didn't comment on that and in MY opinion he does , and I can back up MY opinion not just type it with you.
There is NO ' argument ' I'm no more arguing than you are.
Exactly. There is no argument but here you are posting a crappy pic of Sean Ray ..and a pic of Sev because he said something bad about your hero ::)
and calling Sean Ray "a product of his own hype machine"
The Irony being if anyone is a product of hype its Steve Reeves. "The most perfect proportions"..really..according to whom exactly. STEVE REEVES ? LOLOLOLOL.
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Exactly. There is no argument but here you are posting a crappy pic of Sean Ray and calling him "a product of his own hype machine"
The Irony being if anyone is a product of hype its Steve Reeves. "The most perfect proportions"..really..according to whom exactly. STEVE REEVES ? LOLOLOLOL.
It's 2014 and people are still talking about Steve Reeves , if he was the product of his own hype that would have ended back in 1950 when he retired. 65 from now who will be talking about Shawn Ray?
And I'm not the only one who harped on Ray , it's funny you only chastised me , still butthurt Groink? ;D
Shawn Ray couldn't separate himself from his competition and define his era , he was a second tier pro who convinced people he was something more than what he was.
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It's 2014 and people are still talking about Steve Reeves , if he was the product of his own hype that would have ended back in 1950 when he retired. 65 from now who will be talking about Shawn Ray?
And I'm not the only one who harped on Ray , it's funny you only chastised me , still butthurt Groink? ;D
Shawn Ray couldn't separate himself from his competition and define his era , he was a second tier pro who convinced people he was something more than what he was.
Yes because he was Hercules.
I know bodybuilding quite well. Not like you of course... ut I have no fucking clue what titles he won...or when. Hes famous because he was a film star.
But you are the only one insulting people because they don't agree with you . Like you just did me. Do you even know how to have a civil discussion without acting like a dick...seriously.
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Yes because he was Hercules.
I know bodybuilding quite well. Not like you of course... ut I have no fucking clue what titles he won...or when. Hes famous because he was a film star.
But you are the only one insulting people because they don't agree with you . Like you just did me. Do you even know how to have a civil discussion without acting like a dick...seriously.
Oh the sensible Groink is here , the reasonable one who just wants to get along with everyone ::) You're the biggest Dick on this website and now you're complaining about others doing the same. ::)
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Oh the sensible Groink is here , the reasonable one who just wants to get along with everyone ::) You're the biggest Dick on this website and now you're complaining about others doing the same. ::)
Yes. You see.. I can break balls with the best of them....I own you at will and can make you dance like a puppet...but I'm mostly a cool person here to shoot the shit.
You're just an asshole.. In plain English. Someone is having a discussion and you swoop in like a Stalker and post thing they said from 4 years ago...did it EVER occur to you that people have good days and bad days ? Or that people are entitled to change their mind ? That it's just a stupid message board and who really gives that much of a fuck to call someone on a three year old contradiction ? You are truly fucking bizarre.
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Yes. You see.. I can break balls with the best of them....I own you at will and can make you dance like a puppet...but I'm mostly a cool person here to shoot the shit.
You're just an asshole.. In plain English. Someone is having a discussion and you swoop in like a Stalker and post thing they said from 4 years ago...did it EVER occur to you that people have good days and bad days ? Or that people are entitled to change their mind ? That it's just a stupid message board and who really gives that much of a fuck to call someone on a three year old contradiction ? You are truly fucking bizarre.
Yes. You see.. I can break balls with the best of them....I own you at will and can make you dance like a puppet...but I'm mostly a cool person here to shoot the shit.
Fancy story bro , but the reality is far from it. You don't own shit , you're a fucking cry baby who runs to the mods every chance you can get. You're a little bitch hiding under gimmicks to spew racist shit. You're a 50 year old dude photoshopping pics to impress people , posting pictures of your g/f's breasts , bragging about your material possessions. You're a male booty
You're just an asshole.. In plain English. Someone is having a discussion and you swoop in like a Stalker and post thing they said from 4 years ago...did it EVER occur to you that people have good days and bad days ? Or that people are entitled to change their mind ? That it's just a stupid message board and who really gives that much of a fuck to call someone on a three year old contradiction ? You are truly fucking bizarre.
I am whatever you want me to be and have NO desire to try and change that. And OMG a ' stalker ' ::) when I'm posting pictures of your g/f without her face being hidden or pictures of your daughter than call me a stalker until then stop being melodramatic , I no more ' stalk ' you than YOU stalk Wiggs. Is that the worse you can say about me? I'm opinionated , I'm an asshole? I threw your own words back in your face? ::) if that's the case I'm ahead of the game. I could be a racist dick who hides under gimmicks and cries to mods at every turn. Remember Ron had to tell YOU to fuck off NOT me ;)
And stay on topic , stop booy-jacking the thread with your personal vendettas
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Fancy story bro , but the reality is far from it. You don't own shit , you're a fucking cry baby who runs to the mods every chance you can get. You're a little bitch hiding under gimmicks to spew racist shit. You're a 50 year old dude photoshopping pics to impress people , posting pictures of your g/f's breasts , bragging about your material possessions. You're a male booty
I am whatever you want me to be and have NO desire to try and change that. And OMG a ' stalker ' ::) when I'm posting pictures of your g/f without her face being hidden or pictures of your daughter than call me a stalker until then stop being melodramatic , I no more ' stalk ' you than YOU stalk Wiggs. Is that the worse you can say about me? I'm opinionated , I'm an asshole? I threw your own words back in your face? ::) if that's the case I'm ahead of the game. I could be a racist dick who hides under gimmicks and cries to mods at every turn. Remember Ron had to tell YOU to fuck off NOT me ;)
And stay on topic , stop booy-jacking the thread with your personal vendettas
Ha ha ha.
Blah blah blah ... the meltdown ensues...come up with some new material that actually matters
I'm a "bitch".....Do you know how comical that is coming from a guy afraid to divulge anything of himself because hes afraid of the repurcussions ?
In YOUR own words.."why would I post a pic....nothing good can come from that."
We know.....LOLOL
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Shawn is nothing dorian waxed him.
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Ha ha ha.
Blah blah blah ... the meltdown ensues...come up with some new material that actually matters
I'm a "bitch".....Do you know how comical that is coming from a guy afraid to divulge anything of himself because hes afraid of the repurcussions ?
In YOUR own words.."why would I post a pic....nothing good can come from that."
We know.....LOLOL
As usual you have nothing when you're reminding how much of a little cry baby bitch you are. ;) did I ever cry to the mods? ;) did I ever make a farewell post? ;) did I ever have multiple gimmicks? ;) did I ever call another member a n-i-g-g-e-r? ;) did I ever have threads deleted? ;) did Ron ever have to tell me to fuck off with the racist bullshit? ;) did I ever brag about wanting to punch a woman in the face? ;)
I will NEVER post a pic on here , I don't care about impressing anyone if I did I would be photoshopping pics like you and your pilot fish Sev :D I'm very conscientious of not being on the net , NO Facebook so no one stealing by g/f and children's pics and posting them on here ;) NO meltdown farewell speech to be thrown in my face when I crawl back with my tail between my legs ;) NO mug shot and subsequent report on how you had to submit a DNA sample as part of your plea deal ;)
Next moth i'll be here 10 years to the day and no one really knows much about me , you should try but again you're like booty you need a constant ego stroke because of your severe insecurity issues.
Good job sticking to the topic and not turning this into a personal attack. ;D
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Groink and ND:
http://www.motel6.com/G6Maps/M6ProximitySearch.aspx
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Close
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=211495.0;attach=247699;image)
Basile has one of the best physiques of any member of Getbig at any time. Not too big and not to lean....just right.
This pic is awesome.
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back on topic
Unmatched to this day
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As usual you have nothing when you're reminding how much of a little cry baby bitch you are. ;) did I ever cry to the mods? ;) did I ever make a farewell post? ;) did I ever have multiple gimmicks? ;) did I ever call another member a n-i-g-g-e-r? ;) did I ever have threads deleted? ;) did Ron ever have to tell me to fuck off with the racist bullshit? ;) did I ever brag about wanting to punch a woman in the face? ;)
I will NEVER post a pic on here , I don't care about impressing anyone if I did I would be photoshopping pics like you and your pilot fish Sev :D I'm very conscientious of not being on the net , NO Facebook so no one stealing by g/f and children's pics and posting them on here ;) NO meltdown farewell speech to be thrown in my face when I crawl back with my tail between my legs ;) NO mug shot and subsequent report on how you had to submit a DNA sample as part of your plea deal ;)
Next moth i'll be here 10 years to the day and no one really knows much about me , you should try but again you're like booty you need a constant ego stroke because of your severe insecurity issues.
Good job sticking to the topic and not turning this into a personal attack. ;D
That's two massive meltdowns in a row....I must have hit a nerve :D
You realize you keep posting the same exact shit over and over and over...and nobody cares. .reacts..comments..and I hate to break it to you...I dont care either....LOLOL
BOOOOOOOM !! Fucking MASSIVE ! Wooooooooo-hoooooooooooo !!!!
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back on topic
Unmatched to this day
There are people on this board with better bodies than that.
Arms are pathetic. Long torso, cankles. Big kness..blurry watery thighs.
And hs abs SUCK
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Extremely overrated ,
(http://sportsthenandnow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Bodybuilding.jpg)
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I'm more or less with the honorable Wild Willie: Shawn had very, very good lines.
Mind y'all, ND isn't completely off-base, either. Shawn had shortish legs, fairly blocky quads (think Boyer Coe, only with a shitload more muscle from hip to knee) and ... yeah, God bless the dude, but he WAS narrow, especially compared to guys like Yates and Haney.
But to shift gears again, Shawn's compulsories were all extremely good, sometimes fucking awesome. Ab/thigh? Almost perfect. Front and rear biceps? Outstanding. Side-chest? One of the best ever IMNSHO. His front and rear lat spreads weren't world-beaters but they were still good, and his side-tri and most-muscular were both extremely good.
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Extremely overrated ,
(http://sportsthenandnow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Bodybuilding.jpg)
The dude had a nice physique. ...but most perfect proportions and build ever ?
I can't stop laughing.
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There are people on this board with better bodies than that.
Arms are pathetic. Long torso, cankles. Big kness..blurry watery thighs.
And hs abs SUCK
No...it's all a matter of opinion.
It really is.
Bigger and drier/leaner doesn't mean better necessarily.
Look at the variety of shapes and sizes that you guys like when posting pics of women. Same with men. It's everybodys individual preference.
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There are people on this board with better bodies than that.
Arms are pathetic. Long torso, cankles. Big kness..blurry watery thighs.
And hs abs SUCK
I agree , but are they natural? do they train like him? they have the benefit of years of experiments and trail & error , improvements.
His abs suck? ???
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Extremely overrated ,
(http://sportsthenandnow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Bodybuilding.jpg)
I think he looks really good there...
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The dude had a nice physique. ...but most perfect proportions and build ever ?
I can't stop laughing.
Not even close , I can post 100's pics of guys looking better than him.
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I agree , but are they natural? do they train like him? they have the benefit of years of experiments and trail & error , improvements.
His abs suck? ???
They are good in that pic
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I think he looks really good there...
He looks good but nothing special.
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/Cars6220/rp2.jpg)
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Not even close , I can post 100's pics of guys looking better than him.
Looking better how? in better condition? sure all about context. this is 1947
Can you find another natty who was 6'1" who weighed 215lbs with a 29" waist and had arms , neck and calves all the same size?
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Best bodybuilder of all time. He was finished competing by the time the first anabolic steroid was invented in the late 50's. I really don't care what Oliva has to say about Steve Reeves using. He was a little boy in Cuba when Reeves was competing. Don't show me pictures of steroid users and their temporary drug physique as example of how he doesn't compare. He also maintained his built for decades unlike today's stars who look like fat soft crap in the same year they competed.
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Easy to say in 2014 that he's not that impressive but when all things are considered he's exceptional
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He looks good but nothing special.
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/Cars6220/rp2.jpg)
I forgot all about Reg Park....Reg takes Steve in this pic bigtime.
EDIT:
Looking closer,it`s pretty close,but Park has better abs here.
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Looking better how? in better condition? sure all about context. this is 1947
Can you find another natty who was 6'1" who weighed 215lbs with a 29" waist and had arms , neck and calves all the same size?
the "Greek Ideal"
A bit dated. The Greeks thought the Earth was flat too
And again..those measurements are according to who...Steve Reeves ?
Point is BBers have been bullshitting in muscle magazines since day one.
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Looking better how? in better condition? sure all about context. this is 1947
Can you find another natty who was 6'1" who weighed 215lbs with a 29" waist and had arms , neck and calves all the same size?
I don't give a fuck how tall he was ,I'm judging his symmetry ,proportions ,flow ...... not his height ,weight ,etc .
Arms .neck and calves same size doesn't mean shit , I hope this helps.
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During World war II when he was in the military they called him the Shape. What do you think the top Pros would look like if they were in the military during World War II? How would the steroid users of this board look?
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I forgot all about Reg Park....Reg takes Steve in this pic bigtime.
Destroys him actually
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During World war II when he was in the military they called him the Shape. What do you think the top Pros would look like if they were in the military during World War II? How would the steroid users of this board look?
Who gives a fuck..seriously with the fanboy comments.
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I don't give a fuck how tall he was ,I'm judging his symmetry ,proportions ,flow ...... not his height ,weight ,etc .
Arms .neck and calves same size doesn't mean shit , I hope this helps.
Okay where are all these guys NATURAL who beat him according to you? ::)
I'll be waiting.
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Okay where are all these guys NATURAL who beat him according to you? ::)
I'll be waiting.
Here is one
(http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/8451/stevereeves0010.jpg)
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Methyl Testosterone tablets were available over the counter right after WWII -
http://books.google.com/books?id=fiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA258&dq=hudson+methyltestosterone&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xcnZUsi4CuzMsQTyiIGIDg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=hudson%20methyltestosterone&f=false .
You can see that they weren't a secret product either, Popular Science was a big magazine back then.
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Extremely overrated ,
(http://sportsthenandnow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Bodybuilding.jpg)
Aside from a couple of weirdos with homosexual tendencies nobody really gives a fv** about him so I wouldn't call him overrated.
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Destroys him actually
Park has a thicker more dense look to his physique.
(no homo)
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Who gives a fuck..seriously with the fanboy comments.
Seriously, who gives a fuck about your temporary muscles? You take steroids to feel like a man but deep down inside you know you would look like crap off drugs. Eventually the truth will hit you hard when you have to go off because of finance, arrest or health. Enjoy the ignorant fools who praise you but I think they whisper steroids behind your back so they don't hurt your feelings.
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Methyl Testosterone tablets were available over the counter right after WWII -
http://books.google.com/books?id=fiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA258&dq=hudson+methyltestosterone&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xcnZUsi4CuzMsQTyiIGIDg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=hudson%20methyltestosterone&f=false .
You can see that they weren't a secret product either, Popular Science was a big magazine back then.
Wow that certainly proves he was on ::)
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Exactly it's all context
Show me another all NATURAL guy who was 6'1" 215lbs with perfect proportions and a 29" waist , there has never been another guy who came close
Guy ate 3 times a day , worked out his entire body at once , no supplements to speak of , next to no real equipment , he developed exercises. Who has done more with less?
The guys structure & proportions are unrivaled.
While not being ALL natural, this man came pretty damn close
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Wow that certainly proves he was on ::)
No one knows if he was on or not , do you agree ND?
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Wow that certainly proves he was on ::)
Well it proves that steroids were available back then, not "6 years after he retired". Again, how did you prove he was natural?
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shawn ray was so balanced it wasn't even funny.......the man had symmetry that was out of this world......ok......he may have been a blowhard that turned people off......but as far as his physique goes.......my lord......how do you fault the dude?
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Wow that certainly proves he was on ::)
No, it neither disproves, nor proves, but it proves that bodybuilders had an easily accessible steroid before Dianabol.
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No one knows if he was on or not , do you agree ND?
We know he wasn't on d-bol for a fact. Everything else is hearsay
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Methyl Testosterone tablets were available over the counter right after WWII -
http://books.google.com/books?id=fiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA258&dq=hudson+methyltestosterone&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xcnZUsi4CuzMsQTyiIGIDg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=hudson%20methyltestosterone&f=false .
You can see that they weren't a secret product either, Popular Science was a big magazine back then.
So your premise is since straight testosterone was available that's proof he was using? He had a good build even as a 15 year old. For so many decades he was in shape year round until his health started to fail him. So many of you guys believe there is no such thing as a natural bodybuider or an athlete and that's sad. True the sport of bodybuilding is based on drug use today. No drugs and the sport would fold.
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shawn ray was so balanced it wasn't even funny.......the man had symmetry that was out of this world......ok......he may have been a blowhard that turned people off......but as far as his physique goes.......my lord......how do you fault the dude?
Yes.
At the time he competed there was no one like him. Flex came close....Levrone not as much. Those three were unreal. Bodybuilding should have topped out at them for size.
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Correction. Reeves won the NABBA Mr Universe contest in 1950. There was no contest in 1949. Reg Park came second to Steve Reeves.
When you consider that the first two photos below were taken in 1947 when Steve was 21 you have to wonder what a physique like that could have been with better equipment, methods, etc.
Yes, guys have built bigger muscular bodies but from an aesthetics point of view do they look better? I have photos of Steve up in my weight room beside Arnold and Sergio and Steve stands out like some Greek Adonis.
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shawn ray was so balanced it wasn't even funny.......the man had symmetry that was out of this world......ok......he may have been a blowhard that turned people off......but as far as his physique goes.......my lord......how do you fault the dude?
X 2...awesome physique...........one of the best ever IMO.
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So your premise is since straight testosterone was available that's proof he was using? He had a good build even as a 15 year old. For so many decades he was in shape year round until his health started to fail him. So many of you guys believe there is no such thing as a natural bodybuider or an athlete and that's sad. True the sport of bodybuilding is based on drug use today. No drugs and the sport would fold.
He was on here too ::) people want him to be a user in the worse way
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Well it proves that steroids were available back then, not "6 years after he retired". Again, how did you prove he was natural?
I don't have to prove he was natural , YOU have to prove he was not. ;)
and that add doesn't prove shit.
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So your premise is since straight testosterone was available that's proof he was using? He had a good build even as a 15 year old. For so many decades he was in shape year round until his health started to fail him. So many of you guys believe there is no such thing as a natural bodybuider or an athlete and that's sad. True the sport of bodybuilding is based on drug use today. No drugs and the sport would fold.
No, just that bodybuilders had a easily available drug before Dianabol. Everyone into oldtime bodybuilding points to Dianabol as the start of the steroid era. I am simply pointing out out that it can be widened to just after WWII.
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He was on here too ::) people want him to be a user in the worse way
Guy had great genetics but there's a natural limit, you would know it if you lifted for a decent period of time, like a couple years.
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You're entitled to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts. Fact is Ciba didn't create d-bol until 1956 , 6 years after Reeves retired. These are facts.
And I actually have the book where that quote is from and you would need to read the book in it's entirety to understand where that quote was coming from. That was AFTER he retired from professional bodybuilding. He didn't achieve that physique from doing that , after he retired Hollywood wanted him to dropped weight for movie roles because he was dwarfing his costars , he went from 215 down to as low as 190
Do the research ;)
ND, I have read 2 different accounts on his arm size. One where he was stated to have had 19.5" arms and another where he was stated to have 18" arms and one of those measurements equaled his calf measurement. Which of the 2 measurements was it?
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No, it neither disproves, nor proves, but it proves that bodybuilders had an easily accessible steroid before Dianabol.
No it doesn't , it proves there was an ad making a claim.
When The father of steroids ( Dr John Zeigler ) in this country first learned about the Russians using pure test injectables back in 1954 he came back and tried using test on weightlifters and he gave it up after zero success. Lots of ads made claims that never worked , they still do.
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Steve Reeves was a world famous bodybuilder. .why would he be taking readily available steroids from a company based in Long Beach CA ?
Ill never understand why people put other people on pedestals...as if he's somehow above taking steroids. Oh that's right...he says he was natural. Nobody lies either. Roger Clemens didn't take steroids either..just good old hard work according to HIM ...come on guys.
Not flaming here...just heing a realist.
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Natural as the day is long -
(http://www.isteroids.com/bodybuilding/images/ronnie_coleman2.jpg).
No one can prove that he isn't right ;D.
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Guy had great genetics but there's a natural limit, you would know it if you lifted for a decent period of time, like a couple years.
Ouch that hurt ::) He probably had among the best genetics ever , stop projecting your limitations on him.
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No it doesn't , it proves there was an ad making a claim.
When The father of steroids ( Dr John Zeigler ) in this country first learned about the Russians using pure test injectables back in 1954 he came back and tried using test on weightlifters and he gave it up after zero success. Lots of ads made claims that never worked , they still do.
Take the FDA's word for it?
http://archive.nlm.nih.gov/fdanj/bitstream/123456789/13388/3/174001130.txt .
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shawn ray was so balanced it wasn't even funny.......the man had symmetry that was out of this world......ok......he may have been a blowhard that turned people off......but as far as his physique goes.......my lord......how do you fault the dude?
I agree. Those that hate on Shawn Ray, are just that, HATERS. They don't like him on a personal level knock his body and accomplishments. He had mass on his 5'6" frame, with pretty much perfect symmetry. One that even rivaled that of Lee Labrada. Shawn never gets the respect he deserves. He ALWAYS brought his A game the day of competition.
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Steve Reeves was a world famous bodybuilder. .why would he be taking readily available steroids from a company based in Long Beach CA ?
Ill never understand why people put other people on pedestals...as if he's somehow above taking steroids. Oh that's right...he says he was natural. Nobody lies either. Roger Clemens didn't take steroids either..just good old hard work according to HIM ...come on guys.
Not flaming here...just heing a realist.
What company had steroids available when he was around? ???
Why is him being natural placing him on a pedestal? it may be just a fact. Think about it. The guy was 6'1" and 215lbs and had exceptional genetics , he wasn't 6'1" and 240 in 1947 he wasn't even one of the heaviest guys competing back then. He wasn't in exceptional condition either. I mean is it really that hard to be that big naturally? You claimed to be well over that naturally
Think about it , why would he lie? it's not like they would have been illegal? Clemmens has a very good reason to lie apples V oranges
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(http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/auto/r/786x0/d/a//da3ee-shawn_ray1.jpg)
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Take the FDA's word for it?
http://archive.nlm.nih.gov/fdanj/bitstream/123456789/13388/3/174001130.txt .
The FDA is saying he was on? ??? come on you have to do better than that.
I read about the parachute from da Vinci in 1485 , doesn't mean people were base jumping.
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shawn ray turned pro at 21 yrs old beating a 'narrow'heavyweight massive phil hill for overall,bombed in 88 debut and never looked back from there placing top 5 13 plus yrs,,there were 2 shawn rays young flatopped version round bellies,good condition,flawless posing,and touted the future,shaved head version was harder.somewhat visually'bigger',even bigger mouth,went upagainst massive bbers then,,guy was flat out one of the best ,,,here's teenage/early 20's and older version...looked great period..
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I agree. Those that hate on Shawn Ray, are just that, HATERS. They don't like him on a personal level knock his body and accomplishments. He had mass on his 5'6" frame, with pretty much perfect symmetry. One that even rivaled that of Lee Labrada. Shawn never gets the respect he deserves. He ALWAYS brought his A game the day of competition.
What accomplishments? ??? he won 2 contests
Labrada smokes him in terms of accomplishments , success , physique Lee gets the respect because he earned it , Shawn acted like he was one of the best he never proved it.
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shawn ray turned pro at 21 yrs old beating a 'narrow'heavyweight massive phil hill for overall,bombed in 88 debut and never looked back from there placing top 5 13 plus yrs,,there were 2 shawn rays young flatopped version round bellies,good condition,flawless posing,and touted the future,shaved head version was harder.somewhat visually'bigger',even bigger mouth,went upagainst massive bbers then,,guy was flat out one of the best ,,,here's teenage/early 20's and older version...looked great period..
Yup, he just doesn't get the respect he truly deserves. Dude had an incredible and damn near flawless physique, combining mass with symmetry.
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What accomplishments? ??? he won 2 contests
Labrada smokes him in terms of accomplishments , success , physique Lee gets the respect because he earned it , Shawn acted like he was one of the best he never proved it.
Won 2, but was constantly overlooked. He should have won far more than he did and if it wasn't for Dorian and the judges on the size game, he WOULD HAVE. He was the most consistent bodybuilder of all time imo.
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The FDA is saying he was on? ??? come on you have to do better than that.
I read about the parachute from da Vinci in 1485 , doesn't mean people were base jumping.
No, you where guessing that that ad I linked to was a fake product. That link I posted in response proves that it was real Methyl Testosterone being offered for sale because it is a link to a synopsis for the judgement the FDA got against Hudson Products for selling hormones without proper labeling and warnings.
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Yup, he just doesn't get the respect he truly deserves. Dude had an incredible and damn near flawless physique, combining mass with symmetry.
;D
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What accomplishments? ??? he won 2 contests
Labrada smokes him in terms of accomplishments , success , physique Lee gets the respect because he earned it , Shawn acted like he was one of the best he never proved it.
technically 3 he got drug tested and failed lol..labrada had great career,great build too,,yes...labrada was a judges/promoters /type,,i'm sure he knew who to talk too...smart guy,,
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No, you where guessing that that ad I linked to was a fake product. That link I posted in response proves that it was real Methyl Testosterone being offered for sale because it is a link to a synopsis for the judgement the FDA got against Hudson Products for selling hormones without proper labeling and warnings.
I never said fake. I said it made a claim doesn't mean it would. Doesn't mean he used it. proves absolutely nothing.
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;D
You're an obssesed poster.
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Won 2, but was constantly overlooked. He should have won far more than he did and if it wasn't for Dorian and the judges on the size game, he WOULD HAVE. He was the most consistent bodybuilder of all time imo.
He wasn't overlooked , he just wasn't good enough. And it wasn't only against Dorian. Labrada was more consistent , never placed below 5th in any pro contest always in shape.
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You're an obssesed poster.
And you just fucking figured this out? Or does it make you feel better repeating others? ::)
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I never said fake. I said it made a claim doesn't mean it would. Doesn't mean he used it. proves absolutely nothing.
Proves that there were viable steroids available to people before Dianabol.
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technically 3 he got drug tested and failed lol..labrada had great career,great build too,,yes...labrada was a judges/promoters /type,,i'm sure he knew who to talk too...smart guy,,
Lee better physique , better competitive record , better human , and he's not sucking Blechman's dick for pennies.
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;D
Oh come on dude. Talk about cherry picking and choosing the worst possible shot of Shawn. That's just not right. I'm not Hulkster. I'm not blind with admiration and denial. I admit that Dorian was a freak and everyone else in that era tried to compete with his size. I respect Shawn, because he stayed true to his integrity and as a result (along with being quite vocal) was punished for it and guess what? He KNEW IT.
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Proves that there were viable steroids available to people before Dianabol.
No it doesn't it proves there was an ad. viable steroids lol if you're gullible enough to believe that I wonder why Dr John Zeigler didn't just use them at York? ::)
read this please
Friday, August 21, 2009
The History of Steroids in Bodybuilding
Periodically on the various internet bodybuilding forums someone makes a completely baseless statement about steroid use, when it started, and who was using them back in the 'old days'. When I see ignorance being masqueraded as fact I almost always feel compelled to join the discussion and refute some of the often outrageous statements being hurled about. I'm going to recap what's known about the history of anabolic steroid use in sports so I can refer people to this entry rather than go through it time and time again.
All reliable sources - publications by Terry Todd, John Fair, Randy Roach, Bill Starr, etc, as well as interviews and letters from John Ziegler, John Grimek, Bill March, etc - indicate that experimentation with testosterone for athletic purposes began in the U.S. sometime in either late 1954 or 1955. These 'trials' were short-lived, however, as the results were disappointing and testosterone use was deemed ineffective and carried the risk of harmful side-effects. A statistical analysis of Olympic-style Weightlifting performances published in the International Journal of the History of Sport concluded that Soviet athletes likely first used testosterone sometime between 1952 and 1956.
Dr. John Ziegler, physician for the U.S. Olympic Weightlifting team (i.e. the York team), described in interviews of learning about the Soviet use of testosterone injections at the 1954 World Weightlifting Championships in Vienna, Austria in October of that year. Some time after returning home, Ziegler convinced York affiliated lifters John Grimek, Jim Park and Yaz Kuzahara to be test subjects and receive testosterone injections. By Grimek's account, the results were disappointing. In a private letter, dated at the time, Grimek spoke of seeing nothing in the way of gains and quiting the injections because he felt he was actually regressing. Jim Park received only one injection which he claimed did nothing for him physically, but made him incredibly horny. It is unclear as to Kuzahara's experience but, in any case, it was not positive enough to warrant continued use and further experimentation was ceased. In light of the terrible side effects that Ziegler had heard of and witnessed Soviet users suffering, and lack of significant results in his own test subjects, no further experimentation with testosterone was tried by the York (U.S.) Weightlifting team for the duration of the 1950s.
This was not the end of Ziegler's involvement with steroids, however. Ziegler began work with CIBA Pharmaceuticals in 1955 to develop a testosterone derivative that would carry the anabolic properties of testosterone without the undesirable side effects. Preliminary results began coming in by 1956, and Dianabol was released to the U.S. prescription drug market in 1958 for use in wasting conditions. CIBA's competitor, Searle, beat them to the market, however, and introduced Nilevar, the first synthetic anabolic/androgenic steroid, to the prescription drug market in 1956 (used as a polio treatment).
In late 1959 (some claim as early as 1958, some as late as 1960) Ziegler decided to try the new Dianabol on some of the non-medal contending York lifters and enlisted Grimek to convince a few lifters to begin taking it under his (Ziegler's) supervision. Lower level or non-competitive lifters were chosen for the initial trials so as not to risk marring the performance of medal contenders at the upcoming 1960 Olympics (Dianabol was, at that time, a relatively untested drug and York chief Bob Hoffman was said to have feared trying it on his top lifters). Bill March, Tony Garcy, John Grimek, Ziegler himself and later Lou Riecke were the first Guinea Pigs, and the results were much more promising this time around.
From there, Dianabol use quickly spread to the entire York Weightlifting team. Now, up-and-coming York lifters and Strength and Health magazine writers such as Bill Starr and Tommy Suggs started letting the secret out to the bodybuilding community, and by the early-to-mid 1960s almost all high-level competitive bodybuilders were taking steroids in the weeks leading up to contests. This pre-contest cycling scheme by bodybuilders was based on the Weightlifters' practice of escalating steroid use in the weeks leading up to lifting meets - the logic being that just as the lifters wanted to be at their best (strongest) come meet day, bodybuilders wanted to peak at their biggest on the day of the contest. It didn't take long for steroid use to spill into the 'off-season' as well, as this allowed bodybuilders to build more ultimate muscle mass.
The man who would go on to become the first Mr. Olympia, Larry Scott, gained 8 pounds of muscle in two months between the 1960 Mr. Los Angeles (in which he placed third), and the 1960 Mr. California (which he won, defeating the two men who had placed above him in the Mr. Los Angeles two months earlier). A year earlier he had won the Mr. Idaho weighing just 152 pounds. Larry credits Rheo Blair, and his protein powder, as being instrumental in his sudden improvement. However, considering Larry's dramatic gains from that point onward, and Blair's reported possession of Nilevar a few years earlier before he even moved to California, it is quite likely that this time in 1960 also marks Larry's first usage of steroids (something to which he admits but, to my knowledge, hasn't specified the date).
But the early 1960s did't mark the true origins of bodybuilder's regular use of steroids, however. In an early edition of his book Getting Stronger, Bill Pearl told of meeting Arthur Jones (founder of the Nautilus line of training equipment and father of the "HIT" style of training) in 1958 and learning of Nilevar from him. After a little further investigation, Pearl began a twelve-week cycle of the steroid and gained 25 pounds. At around that same time, Irvin Johnson (aka Rheo H. Blair - 'father' of the first protein powders) is said to have had Searle's Nilevar in his possession, though he isn't believed to have been widely distributing it to bodybuilders at that time.
So what can we gather from all of this? First of all, no bodybuilder or lifter was using synthetic steroids before 1956 - they didn't exist. Most likely, only the very highest level West Coast bodybuilders knew of them by 1958. From there it seems that knowledge of Nilevar and Dianabol to build muscle and strength was kept relatively in the closet until the early 1960s. After all, Hoffman did not want outside athletes to know his lifters' secrets and he was using their sudden gains via Dianabol to promote his supplement line and isometric training courses and racks. Bill Starr wrote that until he was a national calibre lifter with York in the early 1960s he had never heard of steroids. Reg Park (Mr. Universe 1951, 1958, 1965) said that the first he heard of them were in connection with rumours about East German and Soviet athletes during the 1960 Olympics, though he later heard of "steroids" being used on British POWs from Singapore in WWII as they were being nursed back to health in Australian hospitals. Chet Yorton (Mr. America 1966, Mr. Universe 1966, 1975) has said that he first heard of steroids (Nilevar) in 1964, and decided not to risk using them - Yorton went on to become one of the sports most outspoken campaigners against steroid use and founder of the first drug-tested, natural bodybuilding federation. The condition of national and world level bodybuilders appears to have taken a visible leap between 1960 to 1964.
As for testosterone itself, Paul de Kruif's 1945 book "The Male Hormone" is often cited as "proof" that bodybuilders knew of and were using testosterone in the 1940s. But even though testosterone had been identified by researchers and isolated in laboratory settings as early as the 1930s, it didn't receive FDA approval as a prescription drug until 1950 and, therefore, was produced only sporadically and in small batches for research purposes only, before that time. De Kruif himself made no connection between testosterone and possible athletic applications - his arguments were purely from the perspective of using testosterone to improve the vitality and health of aging men and those with specific conditions.
It has been said that John Grimek, upon reading publications such as de Kruif's, was inquiring about testosterone in the 1940s. But he would have had nothing other than a possible hunch that it could be used for athletic purposes, and no source or opportunity to experiment with it. It wasn't until 1954/1955 with Ziegler, that Grimek wrote of getting his first testosterone injections. It stands to reason that if even Grimek had no access to testosterone, and no knowledge of other top level bodybuilders or lifters using it before this - and as editor of Strength and Health magazine and second in command at York he certainly was in a position to know - then it is very unlikely that anyone in the west was using it for athletic/physique purposes before late 1954/1955. Given that these early experiments were unsuccessful and brief (likely because they knew little about dosing for increased strength and muscle mass), it is most likely that the first western bodybuilders began steroid use not with testosterone itself, but with Nilevar, sometime after 1956 to 1958. From there, Dianabol enters the picture at the elite level and by 1964 even the muscle magazines, such as Iron Man, were writing about what they called the "tissue building drugs".
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively little known prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. As for before late 1954/1955, nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was classified as an experimental drug and not available even to physicians. For a bodybuilder to be using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential usage of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated sporadically in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity.
For these reasons it can be stated with some certainty that Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross, John Grimek, Jack Delinger, Reg Park, John Farbotnik, George Eiferman, etc - who all won major physique titles before the Soviets began using testosterone and before synthetic steroids were introduced in 1956 - were not using testosterone or steroids at the time of their Mr. America, Mr. USA and Mr. Universe wins. Furthermore, it is unlikely that any major title winner was a steroid user before 1957-58 (Pearl won the Mr. USA and Mr. Universe titles in 1956 before his knowledge of Nilevar). Some athletes' careers from the era, such as Reg Park's, do span the introduction of steroids into bodybuilding. In Park's case, he competed at 214 pounds when he won the Mr. Universe title in 1951, he weighed 215 when he won it the second time in 1958, and 216 when he placed 3rd in 1971 (at age 43 - he returned again in 1973 to place 2nd). If Park did jump on the steroid bandwagon when he learned of them in 1960, then they produced one pound of muscle in 11 years for him.
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And you just fucking figured this out? Or does it make you feel better repeating others? ::)
It's pretty clear for everyone but you.
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He wasn't overlooked , he just wasn't good enough. And it wasn't only against Dorian. Labrada was more consistent , never placed below 5th in any pro contest always in shape.
Right, but Labarada competed in a different era. He competed with Robby Robinson, Albert Beckles, Mike Christian, Berry Demey, Bob Paris, Rich Gaspari and yes, Haney, but there was no race to the size game in that era. Labrada bowed out when the size game became a factor. I respect Shawn for having the balls to compete against 250+ pound guys. He knew he couldn't measure up to their size, but he didn't bow out like Labrada, or even like Haney did. He stuck it out and was vocal about the unfairness of the new judging criteria, YET, he was still there battling it out, year in and year out. If he had competed in the 80's, it would have been a whole different story and you know it.
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Oh come on dude. Talk about cherry picking and choosing the worst possible shot of Shawn. That's just not right. I'm not Hulkster. I'm not blind with admiration and denial. I admit that Dorian was a freak and everyone else in that era tried to compete with his size. I respect Shawn, because he stayed true to his integrity and as a result (along with being quite vocal) was punished for it and guess what? He KNEW IT.
I could find worse lol ;D
He was NOT punished for it that was his excuse for his failures. A man doesn't make excuses. Shawn wanted the sport to bend to him and when it didn't he railed against anyone and everyone who didn't see it his way. His theory about how the judges only rewarded size was bullshit because he beat Nasser El Sonbaty multiple times if that were the case he would have never.
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Right, but Labarada competed in a different era. He competed with Robby Robinson, Albert Beckles, Mike Christian, Berry Demey, Bob Paris, Rich Gaspari and yes, Haney, but there was no race to the size game in that era. Labrada bowed out when the size game became a factor. I respect Shawn for having the balls to compete against 250+ pound guys. He knew he couldn't measure up to their size, but he didn't bow out like Labrada, or even like Haney did. He stuck it out and was vocal about the unfairness of the new judging criteria, YET, he was still there battling it out, year in and year out. If he had competed in the 80's, it would have been a whole different story and you know it.
Ummmm no he didn't Lee and Shawn competed in the same era with Haney , Shawn's first Olympia was 1988 ??? Lee retired in 95
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I met Tony Lanza in the summer of 1965 in Montreal. He was the photographer who took many of the best photos of Steve Reeves. He showed me some of his original negatives and some were quite large. I think his collection plus the negatives were bought by a collector in the USA, maybe Milton Moore.
Tony imposed the Reeves photo on one showing the scene behind him in this by the Gods photo. I would love to have a go at editing it now. Did what I could but the original was small, noisy and lacked detail.
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(http://www.strength-oldschool.com/uploads/1297488851/gallery_1_4_39939.jpg)
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No it doesn't it proves there was an ad. viable steroids lol if you're gullible enough to believe that I wonder why Dr John Zeigler didn't just use them at York? ::)
read this please
Friday, August 21, 2009
The History of Steroids in Bodybuilding
Periodically on the various internet bodybuilding forums someone makes a completely baseless statement about steroid use, when it started, and who was using them back in the 'old days'. When I see ignorance being masqueraded as fact I almost always feel compelled to join the discussion and refute some of the often outrageous statements being hurled about. I'm going to recap what's known about the history of anabolic steroid use in sports so I can refer people to this entry rather than go through it time and time again.
All reliable sources - publications by Terry Todd, John Fair, Randy Roach, Bill Starr, etc, as well as interviews and letters from John Ziegler, John Grimek, Bill March, etc - indicate that experimentation with testosterone for athletic purposes began in the U.S. sometime in either late 1954 or 1955. These 'trials' were short-lived, however, as the results were disappointing and testosterone use was deemed ineffective and carried the risk of harmful side-effects. A statistical analysis of Olympic-style Weightlifting performances published in the International Journal of the History of Sport concluded that Soviet athletes likely first used testosterone sometime between 1952 and 1956.
Dr. John Ziegler, physician for the U.S. Olympic Weightlifting team (i.e. the York team), described in interviews of learning about the Soviet use of testosterone injections at the 1954 World Weightlifting Championships in Vienna, Austria in October of that year. Some time after returning home, Ziegler convinced York affiliated lifters John Grimek, Jim Park and Yaz Kuzahara to be test subjects and receive testosterone injections. By Grimek's account, the results were disappointing. In a private letter, dated at the time, Grimek spoke of seeing nothing in the way of gains and quiting the injections because he felt he was actually regressing. Jim Park received only one injection which he claimed did nothing for him physically, but made him incredibly horny. It is unclear as to Kuzahara's experience but, in any case, it was not positive enough to warrant continued use and further experimentation was ceased. In light of the terrible side effects that Ziegler had heard of and witnessed Soviet users suffering, and lack of significant results in his own test subjects, no further experimentation with testosterone was tried by the York (U.S.) Weightlifting team for the duration of the 1950s.
This was not the end of Ziegler's involvement with steroids, however. Ziegler began work with CIBA Pharmaceuticals in 1955 to develop a testosterone derivative that would carry the anabolic properties of testosterone without the undesirable side effects. Preliminary results began coming in by 1956, and Dianabol was released to the U.S. prescription drug market in 1958 for use in wasting conditions. CIBA's competitor, Searle, beat them to the market, however, and introduced Nilevar, the first synthetic anabolic/androgenic steroid, to the prescription drug market in 1956 (used as a polio treatment).
In late 1959 (some claim as early as 1958, some as late as 1960) Ziegler decided to try the new Dianabol on some of the non-medal contending York lifters and enlisted Grimek to convince a few lifters to begin taking it under his (Ziegler's) supervision. Lower level or non-competitive lifters were chosen for the initial trials so as not to risk marring the performance of medal contenders at the upcoming 1960 Olympics (Dianabol was, at that time, a relatively untested drug and York chief Bob Hoffman was said to have feared trying it on his top lifters). Bill March, Tony Garcy, John Grimek, Ziegler himself and later Lou Riecke were the first Guinea Pigs, and the results were much more promising this time around.
From there, Dianabol use quickly spread to the entire York Weightlifting team. Now, up-and-coming York lifters and Strength and Health magazine writers such as Bill Starr and Tommy Suggs started letting the secret out to the bodybuilding community, and by the early-to-mid 1960s almost all high-level competitive bodybuilders were taking steroids in the weeks leading up to contests. This pre-contest cycling scheme by bodybuilders was based on the Weightlifters' practice of escalating steroid use in the weeks leading up to lifting meets - the logic being that just as the lifters wanted to be at their best (strongest) come meet day, bodybuilders wanted to peak at their biggest on the day of the contest. It didn't take long for steroid use to spill into the 'off-season' as well, as this allowed bodybuilders to build more ultimate muscle mass.
The man who would go on to become the first Mr. Olympia, Larry Scott, gained 8 pounds of muscle in two months between the 1960 Mr. Los Angeles (in which he placed third), and the 1960 Mr. California (which he won, defeating the two men who had placed above him in the Mr. Los Angeles two months earlier). A year earlier he had won the Mr. Idaho weighing just 152 pounds. Larry credits Rheo Blair, and his protein powder, as being instrumental in his sudden improvement. However, considering Larry's dramatic gains from that point onward, and Blair's reported possession of Nilevar a few years earlier before he even moved to California, it is quite likely that this time in 1960 also marks Larry's first usage of steroids (something to which he admits but, to my knowledge, hasn't specified the date).
But the early 1960s did't mark the true origins of bodybuilder's regular use of steroids, however. In an early edition of his book Getting Stronger, Bill Pearl told of meeting Arthur Jones (founder of the Nautilus line of training equipment and father of the "HIT" style of training) in 1958 and learning of Nilevar from him. After a little further investigation, Pearl began a twelve-week cycle of the steroid and gained 25 pounds. At around that same time, Irvin Johnson (aka Rheo H. Blair - 'father' of the first protein powders) is said to have had Searle's Nilevar in his possession, though he isn't believed to have been widely distributing it to bodybuilders at that time.
So what can we gather from all of this? First of all, no bodybuilder or lifter was using synthetic steroids before 1956 - they didn't exist. Most likely, only the very highest level West Coast bodybuilders knew of them by 1958. From there it seems that knowledge of Nilevar and Dianabol to build muscle and strength was kept relatively in the closet until the early 1960s. After all, Hoffman did not want outside athletes to know his lifters' secrets and he was using their sudden gains via Dianabol to promote his supplement line and isometric training courses and racks. Bill Starr wrote that until he was a national calibre lifter with York in the early 1960s he had never heard of steroids. Reg Park (Mr. Universe 1951, 1958, 1965) said that the first he heard of them were in connection with rumours about East German and Soviet athletes during the 1960 Olympics, though he later heard of "steroids" being used on British POWs from Singapore in WWII as they were being nursed back to health in Australian hospitals. Chet Yorton (Mr. America 1966, Mr. Universe 1966, 1975) has said that he first heard of steroids (Nilevar) in 1964, and decided not to risk using them - Yorton went on to become one of the sports most outspoken campaigners against steroid use and founder of the first drug-tested, natural bodybuilding federation. The condition of national and world level bodybuilders appears to have taken a visible leap between 1960 to 1964.
As for testosterone itself, Paul de Kruif's 1945 book "The Male Hormone" is often cited as "proof" that bodybuilders knew of and were using testosterone in the 1940s. But even though testosterone had been identified by researchers and isolated in laboratory settings as early as the 1930s, it didn't receive FDA approval as a prescription drug until 1950 and, therefore, was produced only sporadically and in small batches for research purposes only, before that time. De Kruif himself made no connection between testosterone and possible athletic applications - his arguments were purely from the perspective of using testosterone to improve the vitality and health of aging men and those with specific conditions.
It has been said that John Grimek, upon reading publications such as de Kruif's, was inquiring about testosterone in the 1940s. But he would have had nothing other than a possible hunch that it could be used for athletic purposes, and no source or opportunity to experiment with it. It wasn't until 1954/1955 with Ziegler, that Grimek wrote of getting his first testosterone injections. It stands to reason that if even Grimek had no access to testosterone, and no knowledge of other top level bodybuilders or lifters using it before this - and as editor of Strength and Health magazine and second in command at York he certainly was in a position to know - then it is very unlikely that anyone in the west was using it for athletic/physique purposes before late 1954/1955. Given that these early experiments were unsuccessful and brief (likely because they knew little about dosing for increased strength and muscle mass), it is most likely that the first western bodybuilders began steroid use not with testosterone itself, but with Nilevar, sometime after 1956 to 1958. From there, Dianabol enters the picture at the elite level and by 1964 even the muscle magazines, such as Iron Man, were writing about what they called the "tissue building drugs".
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively little known prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. As for before late 1954/1955, nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was classified as an experimental drug and not available even to physicians. For a bodybuilder to be using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential usage of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated sporadically in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity.
For these reasons it can be stated with some certainty that Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross, John Grimek, Jack Delinger, Reg Park, John Farbotnik, George Eiferman, etc - who all won major physique titles before the Soviets began using testosterone and before synthetic steroids were introduced in 1956 - were not using testosterone or steroids at the time of their Mr. America, Mr. USA and Mr. Universe wins. Furthermore, it is unlikely that any major title winner was a steroid user before 1957-58 (Pearl won the Mr. USA and Mr. Universe titles in 1956 before his knowledge of Nilevar). Some athletes' careers from the era, such as Reg Park's, do span the introduction of steroids into bodybuilding. In Park's case, he competed at 214 pounds when he won the Mr. Universe title in 1951, he weighed 215 when he won it the second time in 1958, and 216 when he placed 3rd in 1971 (at age 43 - he returned again in 1973 to place 2nd). If Park did jump on the steroid bandwagon when he learned of them in 1960, then they produced one pound of muscle in 11 years for him.
what a fairy tale... Test has been around since the 30's
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what a fairy tale... Test has been around since the 30's
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The astounding ignorance of these posts is appalling, trying their best (and failing) to discredit Steve's physique to steroid use. Have you seen the photos of him at 16? He was a genetic freak, plain and simple. You guys are just trying to justify your own use because you probably have a shit body without drugs. I'm surprised no one is talking about Leroy Colbert, his arms were ginormous all the way back in 1952.
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No it doesn't it proves there was an ad. viable steroids lol if you're gullible enough to believe that I wonder why Dr John Zeigler didn't just use them at York? ::)
And your article proves what? All it proves is that Ziegler produced a popular steroid.
Meanwhile, we have a large ad in a popular magazine of the times advertising steroids over the counter, in an era where male virility, etc.... were hot topics as evidenced by de Kruif's book. Drugs that were proved real by FDA action.
We are to put aside the logical thought that bodybuilders may of experimented with these drugs on the basis of.... what exactly?
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The astounding ignorance of these posts is appalling, trying their best (and failing) to discredit Steve's physique to steroid use. Have you seen the photos of him at 16? He was a genetic freak, plain and simple. You guys are just trying to justify your own use because you probably have a shit body without drugs. I'm surprised no one is talking about Leroy Colbert, his arms were ginormous all the way back in 1952.
6'1" 215lbs HE'S JUICED TO THE MAX ::)
People need him to be on , it makes them feel better about their own failures.
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And your article proves what? All it proves is that Ziegler produced a popular steroid.
Meanwhile, we have a large ad in a popular magazine of the times advertising steroids over the counter, in an era where male virility, etc.... were hot topics as evidenced by de Kruif's book. Drugs that were proved real by FDA action.
We are to put aside the logical thought that bodybuilders may of experimented with these drugs on the basis of.... what exactly?
Your ad proves there was an ad. Come back when you have something more like a convergence if evidence. Until Zeigler there is NO talk anywhere from anyone about athletes using drugs to build their physiques , it starts with him if you have something contradicting that feel free to share it.
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6'1" 215lbs HE'S JUICED TO THE MAX ::)
I personally know 6'1 , 215lbs guys juiced to the max.
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Your ad proves there was an ad. Come back when you have something more like a convergence if evidence.
And the FDA judgement against Hudson for selling hormones, that is what? Magic?
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ND beating people over the head with his OPINION again.
you think reeves had perfect proportions...many others don't including me. Does EVERYTHING hage to he an argument to the fucking death with you ?
His thigh measurements equaled his chest measurement. His neck, arms and calves all measured the same. In between that there was a waistline, not what John used to call a
"wasteline". On top of all that was the face of a very handsome man with a voice to match.
It's much the same with Reg Park but of the two I prefer Reeves' look. Steve never had a cavity in his mouth, much less his life or soul. That can't be said of so many of today's bodybuilders. Actually, it can't be said of any of them.
He was Steve Reeves. That's hard to match let alone surpass. In fame only Arnold has done it. That's how high Steven Lester Reeves set the bar.
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I personally know 6'1 , 215lbs guys juiced to the max.
This guy was ' natural '
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His thigh measurements equaled his chest measurement.
Hahahhaaa
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Close
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=211495.0;attach=247699;image)
Great physique. Not just then, but in every decade.
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what a fairy tale... Test has been around since the 30's
Except perhaps, in lesser men. They didn't have enough on hand naturally to win at tiddly-winks. Steroids were created for such as them.
Not gods like Reeves or Park.
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And the FDA judgement against Hudson for selling hormones, that is what? Magic?
It proves they were selling ' hormones ' doesn't prove anything else. Have something more? other than an ad? ???
The earliest reports of bodybuilders using PED's is 1959 got something before that?
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The steroid and testosterone debate continues. Did the guys in the 40s have steroids? No, they weren't produced until the late 50s. By 1960 many were using steroids and especially strength athletes.
Go back to about 1940 and we find that a doctor wrote a book about the benefits of testosterone. Did any of the champs find sources and experiment? We will never know because most of those guys
are no longer with us. Joe Weider didn't say anything, either. Not that I am aware of.
I can't detect any side effects in the physiques of Reeves, Ross, Eiferman, Pederson, Tanny or Grimek. I was quite surprised to learn that Grimek had been a guinea pig for some experiments with
drugs in the old days but he abandoned any use when he saw no improvement. This was with Zeigler and was after 1950.
I think we have to give the benefit of the doubt to Reeves. He was drug free and good for him. If you guys had lived in the 50s you would have known that any kind of artificial enhancement of the muscles
was viewed as cheating and totally unhealthy. Why risk losing one's reputation if discovered? There is no proof of testosterone use with Reeves and that is a fact. The rest is speculation and hearsay.
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It proves they were selling ' hormones ' doesn't prove anything else. Have something more? other than an ad? ???
The earliest reports of bodybuilders using PED's is 1959 got something before that?
I'll just wonder off, people who read the thread can decide for themselves. This is turning into a circular argument.
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Hahahhaaa
Arnold followed this proven guideline when his thighs each measured 28.5" and his chest measurement was 57". For years it was the standard goal of those that trained. Balance, if you will.
Today's charlatan's have a drug protocol and the only thing they balance is their daily dosage on the scales of their ignorance. Hahahhaaa...
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Except perhaps, in lesser men. They didn't have enough on hand naturally to win at tiddly-winks. Steroids were created for such as them.
Not gods like Reeves or Park.
Ok then ::)
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The steroid and testosterone debate continues. Did the guys in the 40s have steroids? No, they weren't produced until the late 50s. By 1960 many were using steroids and especially strength athletes.
Go back to about 1940 and we find that a doctor wrote a book about the benefits of testosterone. Did any of the champs find sources and experiment? We will never know because most of those guys
are no longer with us. Joe Weider didn't say anything, either. Not that I am aware of.
I can't detect any side effects in the physiques of Reeves, Ross, Eiferman, Pederson, Tanny or Grimek. I was quite surprised to learn that Grimek had been a guinea pig for some experiments with
drugs in the old days but he abandoned any use when he saw no improvement. This was with Zeigler and was after 1950.
I think we have to give the benefit of the doubt to Reeves. He was drug free and good for him. If you guys had lived in the 50s you would have known that any kind of artificial enhancement of the muscles
was viewed as cheating and totally unhealthy. Why risk losing one's reputation if discovered? There is no proof of testosterone use with Reeves and that is a fact. The rest is speculation and hearsay.
Great post.
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I'll just wonder off, people who read the thread can decide for themselves. This is turning into a circular argument.
On your part it is. I asked for more than an ad. You haven't provided anything else. I've find NO other mention of athletes using PEDS before Zeigler not even anecdotal accounts.
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this proven guideline
::)
What about if his neck , arms and calves were 10 inches and his thighs were 30'' and his chest was 60'' ? or 20'' calves ,neck and arms with 24'' thighs.
Numbers don't mean shit, I hope this helps.
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Ok then ::)
Allow me, my friend.
I know you about as well as I do Steve Reeves. If someone were to say to me and swear that years earlier they saw you smoking some guys wang or some such nonsense and I told them that from all that I know of you, you love women and that there's no freaking way you would ever do that.
They have no real proof. None. Just hearsay. Pure speculation (the kind so often featured here in these forums) fueled perhaps in part by nothing more than jealousy coupled with perhaps the need to justify something in their own life. What need do I have of defending you? I don't really know you do I? And yet there is this.
What I know of you I hold to be true. I will always defend the truth for there is honor in that whether or not I personally know the person. Hopefully you will understand what I'm trying to say, my friend.
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::)
What about if his neck , arms and calves were 10 inches and his thighs were 30'' and his chest was 60'' ? or 20'' calves ,neck and arms with 24'' thighs.
Numbers don't mean shit, I hope this helps.
I just think its funny these guys actually take the utter bullshit posted in the bodybuilding comic books as facts....hahahaha
Yes they were bullshitting impressionable young men way back when too
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::)
What about if his neck , arms and calves were 10 inches and his thighs were 30'' and his chest was 60'' ? or 20'' calves ,neck and arms with 24'' thighs.
Numbers don't mean shit, I hope this helps.
And neither does your inane supposition and well do you know this. You're not a fool so don't play one. If you are unaware of what it means to have a balanced physique on every level, then perhaps you are a fool.
I doubt that very much, sir. Very much indeed.
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Allow me, my friend.
I know you about as well as I do Steve Reeves. If someone were to say to me and swear that years earlier they saw you smoking some guys wang or some such nonsense and I told them that from all that I know of you, you love women and that there's no freaking way you would ever do that.
They have no real proof. None. Just hearsay. Pure speculation (the kind so often featured here in these forums) fueled perhaps in part by nothing more than jealousy coupled with perhaps the need to justify something in their own life. What need do I have of defending you? I don't really know you do I? And yet there is this.
What I know of you I hold to be true. I will always defend the truth for there is honor in that whether or not I personally know the person. Hopefully you will understand what I'm trying to say, my friend.
That's a nice thing to say and all...but Steve Reeves is just some dude with a great build.
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That's a nice thing to say and all...but Steve Reeves is just some dude with a great build.
Isn't that what everybody's been saying throughout this thread??
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If you are unaware of what it means to have a balanced physique on every level
I know it has nothing to do with numbers .
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He was on steroids here too :-\
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Isn't that what everybody's been saying throughout this thread??
The Scott is calling him a perfect god...and apparently he never had a cavity...LOL.
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He was on steroids here too :-\
Nope, that's why he looks like shit in those pics.
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Nope, that's why he looks like shit in those pics.
LMAO ;D
I hope this helps
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That's a nice thing to say and all...but Steve Reeves is just some dude with a great build.
As are you. He went on to be something of an icon to thousand of kids like myself in the 40s through the 60s. Not everyone can be that to so many but each of us can be that to someone. Kids need someone to look up to. Heroes on the silver screen are all well and good, but they don't hold your hand when your two years old and learning to cross the street.
That's what fathers, uncles, big brothers, grandfathers and the like are for. But in their absence there are times when a "hero" like Reeves will have to do. Lots of kids spent part of all of their childhood without a father. Trust me.
Be well.
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The Scott is calling him a perfect god...and apparently he never had a cavity...LOL.
I really don't understand this facet of adulthood. Okay then. Thanks for the conversation, sir!
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While I don't consider myself anywhere near Reeves in the physique department, my front double biceps wasn't too bad. Here is an edited version correcting the colour and getting rid of the background. I have the original negatives but have never scanned them.
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While I don't consider myself anywhere near Reeves in the physique department, my front double biceps wasn't too bad. Here is an edited version correcting the colour and getting rid of the background. I have the original negatives but have never scanned them.
Your body flows better than Steve Reeves ,I hope this helps .
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/mahler109_c.jpg)
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While I don't consider myself anywhere near Reeves in the physique department, my front double biceps wasn't too bad. Here is an edited version correcting the colour and getting rid of the background. I have the original negatives but have never scanned them.
You look better than Reeves in that particular shot. You hit the pose very well. Arms staright out. Chest and shoulders wide.. Hips slighty jogged to accentuate your taper. Good shot
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You look better than Reeves in that particular shot. You hit the pose very well. Arms staright out. Chest and shoulders wide.. Hips slighty jogged to accentuate your taper. Good shot
Exactly , if Basile was a little bit leaner , he'd destroy Reeves.
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Exactly , if Basile was a little bit leaner , he'd destroy Reeves.
Well..as I have said...I don't see what the big fkng deal is with Reeves in the first place.
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Well..as I have said...I don't see what the big fkng deal is with Reeves in the first place.
Good physique for sure ,but the greatest genetics ever ,not even close.
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Tony Lanza told me he had to show Reeves and a lot of the guys how he wanted them to pose. What I did was practice posing for 20 minutes each night for 6 months before a contest. You know, never waste those mirrors! I also used another mirror behind me so I could see what I looked like from the back. If you look at videos of Reeves posing you can see he posed rapidly and had little idea about how to present himself at his best. Grimek, on the other hand was a master poser and that is partly why he beat Reeves in the famous Mr USA in 1948. Clancy Ross came second and Steve was third. Today I admire Reeves more than the other two.
In the front double biceps it is important to get the elbows higher than the shoulders. Then one has to try to bring that cut out in the lats. The hips are turned slightly to make them seem slimmer and then the legs put in a line to continue from the arms. The calves have to be flared to give them width. This is tricky. You have to pull and push on the ball of the foot at the same time.
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While I don't consider myself anywhere near Reeves in the physique department, my front double biceps wasn't too bad. Here is an edited version correcting the colour and getting rid of the background. I have the original negatives but have never scanned them.
Top build, seriously.
Flotsam Approved!
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This Hebrew's genetics shits all over Reeves.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Royj4rNVSWA/UpFMOR2SSoI/AAAAAAAAIcc/i-PbY_5BIhM/s1600/Ulisses%2BJr.jpg)
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Tony Lanza told me he had to show Reeves and a lot of the guys how he wanted them to pose. What I did was practice posing for 20 minutes each night for 6 months before a contest. You know, never waste those mirrors! I also used another mirror behind me so I could see what I looked like from the back. If you look at videos of Reeves posing you can see he posed rapidly and had little idea about how to present himself at his best. Grimek, on the other hand was a master poser and that is partly why he beat Reeves in the famous Mr USA in 1948. Clancy Ross came second and Steve was third. Today I admire Reeves more than the other two.
In the front double biceps it is important to get the elbows higher than the shoulders. Then one has to try to bring that cut out in the lats. The hips are turned slightly to make them seem slimmer and then the legs put in a line to continue from the arms. The calves have to be flared to give them width. This is tricky. You have to pull and push on the ball of the foot at the same time.
you know, you had a pretty good build, its unfortunate that youre such a fagget.
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Tony Lanza told me he had to show Reeves and a lot of the guys how he wanted them to pose. What I did was practice posing for 20 minutes each night for 6 months before a contest. You know, never waste those mirrors! I also used another mirror behind me so I could see what I looked like from the back. If you look at videos of Reeves posing you can see he posed rapidly and had little idea about how to present himself at his best. Grimek, on the other hand was a master poser and that is partly why he beat Reeves in the famous Mr USA in 1948. Clancy Ross came second and Steve was third. Today I admire Reeves more than the other two.
In the front double biceps it is important to get the elbows higher than the shoulders. Then one has to try to bring that cut out in the lats. The hips are turned slightly to make them seem slimmer and then the legs put in a line to continue from the arms. The calves have to be flared to give them width. This is tricky. You have to pull and push on the ball of the foot at the same time.
Solid post.........great description....only a good poser would know these type of things.
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Tony Lanza told me he had to show Reeves and a lot of the guys how he wanted them to pose. What I did was practice posing for 20 minutes each night for 6 months before a contest. You know, never waste those mirrors! I also used another mirror behind me so I could see what I looked like from the back. If you look at videos of Reeves posing you can see he posed rapidly and had little idea about how to present himself at his best. Grimek, on the other hand was a master poser and that is partly why he beat Reeves in the famous Mr USA in 1948. Clancy Ross came second and Steve was third. Today I admire Reeves more than the other two.
In the front double biceps it is important to get the elbows higher than the shoulders. Then one has to try to bring that cut out in the lats. The hips are turned slightly to make them seem slimmer and then the legs put in a line to continue from the arms. The calves have to be flared to give them width. This is tricky. You have to pull and push on the ball of the foot at the same time.
And this is why peolpe don't like you.
Very informative post
Would it have killed you to say "thanks guys" as well ::)
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And this is why peolpe don't like you.
Very informative post
Would it have killed you to say "thanks guys" as well ::)
i was going to mention the last line u wrote,,the 'thanks part'people have yold him numerous times how he looks good and mastered that pose and its like he dosen't want anyone to compliment him because his tirade continues on the 'thick nick''blue stars 'thread ,like look at all the people getting them before me and on and on,,,vince here's your blue stars,posters are telling you u look great here,ta da....
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Tony Lanza told me he had to show Reeves and a lot of the guys how he wanted them to pose. What I did was practice posing for 20 minutes each night for 6 months before a contest. You know, never waste those mirrors! I also used another mirror behind me so I could see what I looked like from the back. If you look at videos of Reeves posing you can see he posed rapidly and had little idea about how to present himself at his best. Grimek, on the other hand was a master poser and that is partly why he beat Reeves in the famous Mr USA in 1948. Clancy Ross came second and Steve was third. Today I admire Reeves more than the other two.
That order seems correct, I'dve maybe put Ross first -
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mzBGwHGYH4w/Tq1krwAlotI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/A6h_kvXr7-Y/s1600/john1948sep.jpg).
(http://www.ifbbpro.com/wp-content/uploads/image/2008/features/ross1.jpg).
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-pLAqWA-CGU/TIuhUxswBgI/AAAAAAAAAg0/e0wM2mWTKqE/s1600/!BZd7FTQBWk~%24(KGrHgoOKjEEjlLmZ(ZQBKm2MulvRw~~_12.jpg).
Reeves just has height going for him.
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Look, fellas, I will thank Ron when I get my blue competition stars! Seriously, I never expected anyone to say anything nice about my physique here on Getbig.
So I am flattered by the comments here. Dr Walzack told me I could be a Mr Universe if I was supervised by him for 6 months....deca durabolin. I came to
Australia to get a job teaching high school PE and never went to LA to see the doctor. I had a wife and family to think about. Dr MW was openly gay and that didn't sit well with me in those days.
Homosexuals were considered deviants so I avoided owing any of them anything...if you get my drift. Heck, I slept in my car for two weeks in LA in 1968.
Tricky finding dark streets to sleep in around Venice and elsewhere I ended up at night. Some mornings old ladies would wake me up by knocking on the window and laughing. Finally Chip Wilson and his mate
from Chicago let me sleep on their sofa and gave me a key to their flat. Nice guys and much appreciated. Joe Gold let me train for free in his gym and I always
let visiting top guys train in my gym for free if I am there.
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Got to say I think Basille had a better physique than Reeves.Kind of ridiculous when you think now that Ron won't even give him blue stars lol.I think with Reeves too many men get sucked in by the pretty face, like when guys look at a picture and say they want the guys haircut, they are really saying they want to look like the guys face.Put big lous face on his physique then see what happens.
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Perhaps Reeves biggest problem was his lack of "thickness". It was said Steve was like the Sunday paper, wide and impressive.
Until you turned it sideways. Still one of my personal favorites. Clancy Ross too and I think both he and Reeves were better than Grimek. But much of bodybuilding is subjective to individual preferences.
I agree with what seems to be the majority here in that Vince's physique was excellent and it's unfathomable why the site owner does not award (vs "give") him his blue stars.
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While I don't consider myself anywhere near Reeves in the physique department, my front double biceps wasn't too bad. Here is an edited version correcting the colour and getting rid of the background. I have the original negatives but have never scanned them.
Good editing, most old folks can't do a thing with computers. What you?
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Look, fellas, I will thank Ron when I get my blue competition stars! Seriously, I never expected anyone to say anything nice about my physique here on Getbig.
So I am flattered by the comments here. Dr Walzack told me I could be a Mr Universe if I was supervised by him for 6 months....deca durabolin. I came to
Australia to get a job teaching high school PE and never went to LA to see the doctor. I had a wife and family to think about. Dr MW was openly gay and that didn't sit well with me in those days.
Homosexuals were considered deviants so I avoided owing any of them anything...if you get my drift. Heck, I slept in my car for two weeks in LA in 1968.
Tricky finding dark streets to sleep in around Venice and elsewhere I ended up at night. Some mornings old ladies would wake me up by knocking on the window and laughing. Finally Chip Wilson and his mate
from Chicago let me sleep on their sofa and gave me a key to their flat. Nice guys and much appreciated. Joe Gold let me train for free in his gym and I always
let visiting top guys train in my gym for free if I am there.
No one asked any of this shit.
This is why no you'll never get your blue start nor any respect.
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No one asked any of this shit.
This is why no you'll never get your blue start nor any respect.
LOL. Who gets respect from everyone here at Getbig? Answer: no one. We all take turns getting shit on. After a while many lose whatever self-respect they used to have.
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LOL. Who gets respect from everyone here at Getbig? Answer: no one. We all take turns getting shit on. After a while many lose whatever self-respect they used to have.
fair enough vince,,props again,,good luck getting blue stars...i competed as well and never wanted or needed validation blue star wise,,and i'm still 90 pct of my peak show look at 45..
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fair enough vince,,props again,,good luck getting blue stars...i competed as well and never wanted or needed validation blue star wise,,and i'm still 90 pct of my peak show look at 45..
The blue stars is a long running joke here. I like to pull everyone's leg about it. Not having them is fun! Anyway, who wants what Goodrum has??
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The blue stars is a long running joke here. I like to pull everyone's leg about it. Not having them is fun! Anyway, who wants what Goodrum has??
got ya ;)..
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In that pose Vince is better than Reeves. I pointed out many times that people are mesmerized by Reeve's face not his build. che has a better flow than reeves.. post again a relaxed shot che ..
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Steve Reeves Biceps overpowered his triceps.
Maybe that's why he did the front double biceps pose like that, or maybe that it was common to do it back in those days. But, you would see a lot of over head shots with him, and the farther up, the less his biceps played into the shot.
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Can you imagine if Steve Reeves had been TV's Superman instead of George Reeves? Would have built bbing and fitness into a MM $ industry 3 decades before Arnold.
Reeves may not be the best of all time, but he was best of his era.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=474203.0;attach=515072;image)(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=474203.0;attach=515071;image)(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=474203.0;attach=515068;image)
In that pool shot, definitely reminds me a bit of Reeves...
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In that pose Vince is better than Reeves. I pointed out many times that people are mesmerized by Reeve's face not his build. che has a better flow than reeves.. post again a relaxed shot che ..
Agreed. Reeves had the face which got him along way.
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People cherry pick pictures of this guy to support their argument. He was definitely not natural at one point in his life. There are a couple front double bi pics floating around from his movie days where he is clearly not natural.
Too many people are emotionally attached to the idea that this guy was natural, especially older guys
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Coach Huang, Wes and that oldtimer who's name I forget over and over again are the inspiration for women....
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People cherry pick pictures of this guy to support their argument. He was definitely not natural at one point in his life. There are a couple front double bi pics floating around from his movie days where he is clearly not natural.
Too many people are emotionally attached to the idea that this guy was natural, especially gay guys
Fixed
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While I don't consider myself anywhere near Reeves in the physique department, my front double biceps wasn't too bad. Here is an edited version correcting the colour and getting rid of the background. I have the original negatives but have never scanned them.
What were your measurements Vince? Height/Weight/Bicep, etc..
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(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREUpZrs11qg-tvB6WyRGypmchC_IgNX3OLNBESw_NmKuWHruLUnA)