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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Radical Plato on March 30, 2014, 09:22:23 PM
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It isn't hard to see that people believe in GOD because they are afraid and desperate to imagine into existence a caring Father figure to help them deal with the harsh realities of existence (like there is NO GOD). So could it be that the realisation that there is NO GOD leads people to imagine one into existence to deal with the fact GOD DOESN'T EXIST?
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I'll break it down in simple terms.
Some people NEED a God to go on and maintain and make sense of their world and upbringing, others don't.
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I think they need something to replace Santa Claus when they realize he isn't real.
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I'll break it down in simple terms.
Some people NEED a God to go on and maintain and make sense of their world and upbringing, others don't.
But shouldn't we be trying to help these people cope with life without relying on imaginary Father figures? And should those strong enough to live without a need for GOD have to suffer the amount of negative and destructive influence these delusional dolts have on society?
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People want to believe it, not going away any time soon.
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But shouldn't we be trying to help these people cope with life without relying on imaginary Father figures? And should those strong enough to live without a need for GOD have to suffer the amount of negative and destructive influence these delusional dolts have on society?
You're asking someone prone to believing in fairies and spirits without question to reject their whole upbringing and beliefs? They'll only ignore you and violently push back. Remember, some of these people spent neigh on 50 years believing this shit, do you think they're going to change NOW?
Talking about that, I'm still waiting for MOS to explain how 'god' created dinosaurs. Did they drop from the sky ala Titanfall or suddenly wander out of a cave, fully formed?
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I get the need to believe in a god or a higher being, creation throws up questions science can only answer to a point, I believe all the science by the way, but the very initial point of creation still throws up the question.
But if you think that some creator sent his kids jesus and mohammed to save us from satan , god got better things to do with his time than worry about your little ass.I also get the need that some people need to believe in something greater than themselves, if there was a God I dont think he would want us thanking him all day everyday, just live your life make it a good life, try to do more good than bad and stop praying to me everyday,or killing others in my name.
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But shouldn't we be trying to help these people cope with life without relying on imaginary Father figures? And should those strong enough to live without a need for GOD have to suffer the amount of negative and destructive influence these delusional dolts have on society?
It seems as if God owns your every thought. Things that I find nonsensical and untrue are thought of only once. I consider them - conclude that they are rubbish - and never think of them again.
You seem so consumed with the power of The Great I Am!! That is a good thing and there will come a day where He will break through the sad insecurities of your atheistic religion. You sad little ones that constantly reassure yourselves that you are smart no matter what the bullies tell you and are so angry that god gave you inferior genetics that you just despise His name. Just because I am blessed with better genetics doesn't make me better than you. I will pray for you man..
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I think they need something to replace Santa Claus when they realize he isn't real.
um come again? :o :o :o
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It seems as if God owns your every thought. Things that I find nonsensical and untrue are thought of only once. I consider them - conclude that they are rubbish - and never think of them again.
You seem so consumed with the power of The Great I Am!! That is a good thing and there will come a day where He will break through the sad insecurities of your atheistic religion. You sad little ones that constantly reassure yourselves that you are smart no matter what the bullies tell you and are so angry that god gave you inferior genetics that you just despise His name. Just because I am blessed with better genetics doesn't make me better than you. I will pray for you man..
There, there, frightened little one. Yes, yes, I am angry that a non-existent deity gave me inferior genetics. I am also mad that Santa never brought me what I wanted for Christmas even though I was a good boy. Thankyou for praying for me, even though a GOD may find that insulting, because you are essentially suggesting he fucked everything up in the first place and you have noticed this and are now humbly asking him to fix his mistakes. I am sure an all powerful, omniscient and vengeful deity such as GOD will be grateful that you, his sinful and pathetic creation, through your prayers point out his shortcomings.
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some people believe some dont--who cares--freedom of choice
move on
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I think they need something to replace Santa Claus when they realize he isn't real.
um come again? :o :o :o
I have always thought the Santa Claus myth was another religious trick to lure the miserable into believing in GOD. When Children find out there is no Santa it is incredibly deflating, and the religious point out, see how much better it was to believe in fairy tales, see life is too hard otherwise, you need to delude yourself to be happy says the religious man. This was essentially the argument put forward in the movie 'The life of pi', that god may not exist, but isn't life better and more fun if you delude yourself into believing in a false reality.
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some people believe some dont--who cares--freedom of choice
move on
yeah, let's ignore the tyranny, the suffering and killing of innocents and the stalled progress caused by the masses believing in nonsense.
Yeah, that's right, Believing in religion is harmless ::)
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I've always wondered why religious people reject the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy as childish foolishness yet their sky god is serious business. There's exactly the same proof for 'god' as there is for the aforementioned characters. None.
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It isn't hard to see that people believe in GOD because they are afraid and desperate to imagine into existence a caring Father figure to help them deal with the harsh realities of existence (like there is NO GOD). So could it be that the realisation that there is NO GOD leads people to imagine one into existence to deal with the fact GOD DOESN'T EXIST?
when I was 5 years old I thought the same thing. I was a young child and I would think how stupid religion was and how obvious it was that people only believed because they were scared to die. At the time I was extremely scared to die too, but I didnt see any point in believing in lies. And I knew God was a lie.
I was always considered intelligent by my teachers and peers, and I remained an atheist till I was in college.
The truth is, it was only after I started to become OK with death that I started to believe in life after death.
And it was logic, pure intellect, that brought me to the idea of God. Causality. The logical truth that things are caused by other things. And God is the logical consequence of that line of logic.
And after having come to God, since before I believed in God I believed that death could only be a good thing like reincarnation or a peaceful quiet sleep, but now believing in God and also that hell is a possibility, I am now much less comforted about death than I was before.
As the bible tells us, those who hate God love death. And times when I am feeling temptation I do find myself yearning for an existence where Icould be self serving and jist die in peace with no worry of heavem or hell.
So, as you can tell, faith is not always a refuge for the cowardly.
But in fact it takes a brave man to face up to his helplessness and dependence on his savior.
l
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Damn Tbombz. Impressive
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when I was 5 years old I thought the same thing. I was a young child and I would think how stupid religion was and how obvious it was that people only believed because they were scared to die. At the time I was extremely scared to die too, but I didnt see any point in believing in lies. And I knew God was a lie.
I was always considered intelligent by my teachers and peers, and I remained an atheist till I was in college.
The truth is, it was only after I started to become OK with death that I started to believe in life after death.
And it was logic, pure intellect, that brought me to the idea of God. Causality. The logical truth that things are caused by other things. And God is the logical consequence of that line of logic.
And after having come to God, since before I belueved death could only be good or peaceful quiet, now believing hell is also a possibility, I am much less comforted about death than was before.
As the bible tells us, those who hate God love death. And times when I am feeling temptation I do find myself yearning for an existence where Icould be self serving and jist die in peace with no worry of heavem or hell.
So, as you can tell, faith is not always a refuge for the cowardlty.
l
The fact you believe in life after death means you are NOT OK with death. Just like god, there is no evidence for an afterlife, belief in life after death is just another way fearful people comfort themselves, I mean, if you actually live again after death, you haven't really died then have you. I won't even go into the absurdity of heaven and hell. Hell is living on Earth with a masses of irrational people who create fairy tales to avoid reality.
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some people believe some dont--who cares--freedom of choice
move on
Xs 2. Stop trying to cock block people's stupid beliefs. None or your business
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Ignore Tbombz, he's only been towing the Jesus line since he got the Aids man. Trying to clean the slate with the big man, just in case.
He's very very aware of his mortally now.
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The fact you believe in life after death means you are NOT OK with death. Just like god, there is no evidence for an afterlife, belief in life after death is just another way fearful people comfort themselves, I mean, if you actually live again after death, you haven't really died then have you. I won't even go into the absurdity of heaven and hell. Hell is living on Earth with a masses of irrational people who create fairy tales to avoid reality.
you actually bring up a very good point = death is not death. Jesus stresses this by pointing out that God is not the God of the dead but the God of the living. And also by saying that we are blessed we are persecuted, even martyred, for his sake. Because death is not death, it is the beginning of the next.and that is a key thing to understand when considering faith, that death is not something to be feared but something to welcome. Many peeople have trouble accepting God because they see death in the world-forgetting that death is not the end but the beginning (for.those who love God)
Truthfully, I would be more ok with the death of eternal sleep than I am with having to face judgement for my actions.
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I was always considered intelligent by my teachers and peers
The Dunning-Kruger Effect rearing its ugly head and evincing its ability to stunt a person's development of peace
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A person who believe in god from the heart dont mention about God that much.
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It seems as if God owns your every thought. Things that I find nonsensical and untrue are thought of only once. I consider them - conclude that they are rubbish - and never think of them again.
You seem so consumed with the power of The Great I Am!! That is a good thing and there will come a day where He will break through the sad insecurities of your atheistic religion. You sad little ones that constantly reassure yourselves that you are smart no matter what the bullies tell you and are so angry that god gave you inferior genetics that you just despise His name. Just because I am blessed with better genetics doesn't make me better than you. I will pray for you man..
hahaha this is good.
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A person who believe in god from the heart dont mention about God that much.
Agree
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(http://31.media.tumblr.com/76e3b639c7797971100c312e92f42ae0/tumblr_n1rsfzcDZW1raw1oio1_400.jpg)
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But shouldn't we be trying to help these people cope with life without relying on imaginary Father figures? And should those strong enough to live without a need for GOD have to suffer the amount of negative and destructive influence these delusional dolts have on society?
Why dont you mind your own business?
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It isn't hard to see that people believe in GOD because they are afraid and desperate to imagine into existence a caring Father figure to help them deal with the harsh realities of existence (like there is NO GOD). So could it be that the realisation that there is NO GOD leads people to imagine one into existence to deal with the fact GOD DOESN'T EXIST?
And now all your love will be exorcised
And we will find your saints to be canonized
And it's an even sum
It's a melody
It's a battle cry
It's a symphony
Seven devils all around you
Seven devils in my house
See, they were there when I woke up this morning
And I'll be dead before the day is done
Before the day is done
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I'm such a hardcore atheist, I don't believe other people believe in God.
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It isn't hard to see that people believe in GOD because they are afraid and desperate to imagine into existence a caring Father figure to help them deal with the harsh realities of existence (like there is NO GOD). So could it be that the realisation that there is NO GOD leads people to imagine one into existence to deal with the fact GOD DOESN'T EXIST?
But Mr.E-Kully, yours black Abo mob have something call Vangina ;D
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People who are afraid to go to hell are religious! People who have been to hell are spiritual!
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It isn't hard to see that people believe get stoned because they are afraid and desperate to imagine into existence a caring Father figure to help them deal with the harsh realities of existence (like staying sober). So could it be that the realization that the fear of being sober leads people to get high and post asinine threads?
Fixed.
100% more accurate. Stop smoking pot, get off the couch, and leave people to believe whatever they want.
You idiot.
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Fixed.
100% more accurate. Stop smoking pot, get off the couch, and leave people to believe whatever they want.
You idiot.
I haven't smoked pot in years, I actually have no idea what you are talking about.
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Why dont you mind your own business?
Because religion is dangerous, it's influence has corrupted the world and causes much suffering. Religion isn't an innocent creature, it's like a dirty pedophile looking for prey. Do you really think such an evil force should be ignored?
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I haven't smoked pot in years, I actually have no idea what you are talking about.
That makes your threads even more alarming.
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Because religion is dangerous, it's influence has corrupted the world and causes much suffering. Religion isn't an innocent creature, it's like a dirty pedophile looking for prey. Do you really think such an evil force should be ignored?
Yes, but you enjoy your crusade.
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I'm such a hardcore atheist, I don't believe other people believe in God.
lol. You do realise Religion is evangelical, some religions so desperately want to force others to believe the way they do, they believe the use of force is justified in doing so.
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Yes, but you enjoy your crusade.
I simply asked the question "Does the lack of evidence for GOD actually cause some people to create one to believe in?". I mean, that's what adults have done with Santa Claus, you know, it would be nice if there was a Santa Claus, but there isn't, so let's create an imaginary one and just pretend. I don't see any reason why the adults amongst us who never grew up wouldn't do the same thing with a deity. It seems a fair question. I can't help that religious nutters are such a sensitive bunch who love to heap scorn on everyone else but are incapable of receiving any back.
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I simply asked the question "Does the lack of evidence for GOD actually cause some people to create one to believe in?". I mean, that's what adults have done with Santa Claus, you know, it would be nice if there was a Santa Claus, but there isn't, so let's create an imaginary one and just pretend. I don't see no reason why the adults amongst us who never grew up wouldn't do the same thing with a deity. It seems a fair question. I can't help that religious nutters are such a sensitive bunch who love to heap scorn on everyone else but are incapable of receiving any back.
Your rights end where another mans begin.
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Your rights end where another mans begin.
Yes you are right, the sooner we can get the Church and it's crazies to accept this, the sooner we can properly educate children and eradicate Religion's evil influence on society.
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Yes you are right, the sooner we can get the Church and it's crazies to accept this, the sooner we can properly educate children and eradicate Religion's evil influence on society.
Is someone forcing you or your children to believe in God?
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Is someone forcing you or your children to believe in God?
This has been happening since the beginning of time. Our schools still have religious instruction, which is a form of child abuse, teaching them lies as if it was truth, scaring them into believing in hell, and feeding them nonsense about how the earth come about. Dawkins did a good documentary on this, how such schools suck up taxpayers funds and how many schools wouldn't let children enroll unless the parents pretended they were religious or sucked up the local pastors arse. It's an unfortunate thing that Religious people don't care about the rights of children to determine their own beliefs and approach the world with a genuine open mind.
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This has been happening since the beginning of time. Our schools still have religious instruction, which is a form of child abuse, teaching them lies as if it was truth, scaring them into believing in hell, and feeding them nonsense about how the earth come about. Dawkins did a good documentary on this, how many schools wouldn't let children enroll unless the parents pretended they were religious or sucked up the local pastors arse.
Why dont you just answer the question that was asked?
Is someone forcing you or your children to believe in God?
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I haven't smoked pot in years, I actually have no idea what you are talking about.
I'm sorry did I pick the wrong drug? Heroin? Acid? Alchohol? More to your liking? You claiming you are not a stoned, unemployed, unlaid, miserable leech, loser is laughable. You will now say you are being bullied and you hate bullies right? You are bullied because you ask for it. Get a life man for real. I feel sorry for Shitzo... You, I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. Your shit is a million times more pathetic then Shitzo.
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That makes your threads even more alarming.
hahahahaha :D
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Why dont you just answer the question that was asked?
Is someone forcing you or your children to believe in God?
YES. on my dime also. Is someone forcing you to acknowledge reality and accept there is NO GOD? Is anybody forcing you to abandon your delusional worldview?
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YES
Dont you have the courage to just say, "I dont believe"?
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the belief the universe and all that we know was created out of two random atoms (which came from where again? ) is no more more believable than a creator scenario.
watching people argue about this meanwhile knowing nothing, able to prove nothing conclusively either way goes the show how dimwitted you all really are.
it's one thing to argue a point when you have proofs. none of you have absolute proofs either way.
so then I guess it comes down to faith and in that your in the same boat. so why are you even arguing in the first place.
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the belief the universe and all that we know was created out of two random atoms (which came from where again? ) is no more more believable than a creator scenario.
watching people argue about this meanwhile knowing nothing, able to prove nothing conclusively either way goes the show how dimwitted you all really are.
it's one thing to argue a point when you have proofs. none of you have absolute proofs either way.
so then I guess it comes down to faith and in that your in the same boat. so why are you even arguing in the first place.
Poor E-KUL seems to be getting forced into believeing it , not sure how.
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Poor E-KUL seems to be getting forced into believeing it , not sure how.
they are brainwashing his children.
the guys a fucking loon.
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I'm sorry did I pick the wrong drug? Heroin? Acid? Alchohol? More to your liking? You claiming you are not a stoned, unemployed, unlaid, miserable leech, loser is laughable. You will now say you are being bullied and you hate bullies right? You are bullied because you ask for it. Get a life man for real. I feel sorry for Shitzo... You, I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. Your shit is a million times more pathetic then Shitzo.
I don't feel bullied at all. All I see is a bunch of reactive dolts who meltdown every time their ridiculous and delusional worldview is challenged. I actually feel sorry for you, faith and religion has obviously not helped you develop resilience and a tolerance for alternate ideas. It is a sad indictment on religion that the atheists have a far greater resilience than those with faith. It is amazing how the TRUTH does set you free(not the so called TRUTH religious nutters have simply made up), and the TRUTH is there is ZERO evidence for GOD. It is your determined commitment to maintain countless religious lies that sees you and others like you so easily prone to melting down.
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Dont you have the courage to just say, "I dont believe"?
I don't believe. (in fantasy worldviews and make believe father figures).
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I don't believe. (in fantasy worldviews and make believe father figures).
Well if your children dont believe either you have nothing to really worry about do you?
You did say you were being forced to believe earlier, seems that wasnt the case at all.
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EKul posted a pic of himself a long time ago.
it went a long way in helping me understand why he's so angry.
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EKul posted a pic of himself a long time ago.
it went a long way in helping me understand why he's so angry.
Hes made a mess of his argument by saying hes forced to believe it.
Lol, even the Spanish Inquesition couldnt make you believe something, they could make you say you believed it, totally different thing altogether.
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the belief the universe and all that we know was created out of two random atoms (which came from where again? ) is no more more believable than a creator scenario.
That's for the people who dedicate themselves to studying the structure and origins of the universe to deduce -- i.e., the physicists. And they are by and large of the opinion that what you've said is utterly false.
it's one thing to argue a point when you have proofs. none of you have absolute proofs either way.
So we should only be allowed to discuss logic and mathematics, the only subjects where it possible to acquire absolute proofs for one's claim? There's no room for arguing about claims which have varying degrees of evidence in their favor?
so then I guess it comes down to faith and in that your in the same boat. so why are you even arguing in the first place.
You guessed wrong.
Even if you were right that the argument is being waged by equal and opposing forces buoyed by nothing but faith, there might be reason to argue: it's fun, for example.
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I don't feel bullied at all. All I see is a bunch of reactive dolts who meltdown every time their ridiculous and delusional worldview is challenged. I actually feel sorry for you, faith and religion has obviously not helped you develop resilience and a tolerance for alternate ideas. It is a sad indictment on religion that the atheists have a far greater resilience than those with faith. It is amazing how the TRUTH does set you free(not the so called TRUTH religious nutters have simply made up), and the TRUTH is there is ZERO evidence for GOD. It is your determined commitment to maintain countless religious lies that sees you and others like you so easily prone to melting down.
Guess what Shaggy... I'm agnostic. Dumbass.
And since you were so quick to say you didn't smoke pot, but didn't say a word about the other drugs, means I hit on one of them. Good luck with heroine addiction loser.
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Guess what Shaggy... I'm agnostic. Dumbass.
And since you were so quick to say you didn't smoke pot, but didn't say a word about the other drugs, means I hit on one of them. Good luck with heroine addiction loser.
I actually don't take any drugs, I don't even drink.
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I actually don't take any drugs, I don't even drink.
Ok everyone who believes this please sign this thread...
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Ok everyone who believes this please sign this thread...
It's no big deal, many people don't take drugs or drink. I have done pot in the past, but have abstained from such activities for years now.
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People believe in god for multiple reasons. They grew up with religion, they are having an emotional crisis and fear of death are a few.
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You're asking someone prone to believing in fairies and spirits without question to reject their whole upbringing and beliefs? They'll only ignore you and violently push back. Remember, some of these people spent neigh on 50 years believing this shit, do you think they're going to change NOW?
Talking about that, I'm still waiting for MOS to explain how 'god' created dinosaurs. Did they drop from the sky ala Titanfall or suddenly wander out of a cave, fully formed?
I already told you I don't how God creates....I can't explain that. Were they fully formed? Yes.
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Yes, there is no god or superior entities, religions are for the gullible... With this i don't want to offend people that beLIEve, if believing in some god does make you feel better or does make your life fuller, it's ok... As i always say, believe what you want...
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It's obvious by looking at the complexity and order of the universe and even our bodies, that life didn't happen by chance. There is a creator, or God. It's all right there for you. People either ignore this fact out of nativity, ego or they simply are too young to grasp yet.
It's when you start talking about organized religions - that were created by man - that things get messed up.
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Yes, there is no god or superior entities, religions are for the gullible... With this i don't want to offend people that beLIEve, if believing in some god does make you feel better or does make your life fuller, it's ok... As i always say, believe what you want...
Typical libtard. SO is it OK for people to believe terrorism is a suitable political tool, or that raping pre-pubescent girls is acceptable or that killing those who leave a religion is OK. People who are OK with others to 'believe what you want' is why this world is such a fucked up place. Nobody challenges irrationality or dangerous beliefs. People are OK as long as bad shit happens to other people, when other beliefs cause them pain, suffering or death they suddenly realise how dangerous beliefs are. Believing 'It is OK for others to believe as they want' is a dangerous belief indeed. Unjust violence, terrorism and wars can be the end product of belief, probably not a good idea to just let people believe any old thing.
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It isn't hard to see that people believe in GOD because they are afraid and desperate to imagine into existence a caring Father figure to help them deal with the harsh realities of existence (like there is NO GOD). So could it be that the realisation that there is NO GOD leads people to imagine one into existence to deal with the fact GOD DOESN'T EXIST?
If you would expand on the notion of the "realization" as that seems to be the crux of your point.
What does that realization entail? Is it universal amongst all types of theists? Does the realization manifest itself in the same way?
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It isn't hard to see that people believe in GOD because they are afraid and desperate to imagine into existence a caring Father figure to help them deal with the harsh realities of existence (like there is NO GOD). So could it be that the realisation that there is NO GOD leads people to imagine one into existence to deal with the fact GOD DOESN'T EXIST?
You're a buffoon....nm
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If you would expand on the notion of the "realization" as that seems to be the crux of your point.
What does that realization entail? Is it universal amongst all types of theists? Does the realization manifest itself in the same way?
Do you really need an explanation of how people come to the 'realisation' there is NO GOD. Tell me, how did you come to the conclusion there is no such thing as Santa Claus or the flying spaghetti monster or ZEUS, you realised there was ZERO evidence for them, right! Same deal with GOD, people may hold out hope for evidence, but after decades of not finding any, and learning that nobody has ever found any evidence of GOD since time immemorial, they come to realise GOD doesn't exist. For those who can not accept this harsh reality, they simply ignore it and PRETEND as if there is a GOD to comfort them and minimise the pain that their realization has caused.
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Do you really need an explanation of how people come to the 'realisation' there is NO GOD.
Well, it's your premise so I wanted you to outline it more thoroughly so I can better understand. That all important context can mean everything in so many cases.
Tell me, how did you come to the conclusion there is no such thing as Santa Claus or the flying spaghetti monster or ZEUS, you realised there was ZERO evidence for them, right!
That is exactly right there was no evidence for them.
Same deal with GOD, people may hold out hope for evidence, but after decades of not finding any, and learning that nobody has ever found any evidence of GOD since time immemorial, they come to realise GOD doesn't exist. For those who can not accept this harsh reality, they simply ignore it and PRETEND as if there is a GOD to comfort them and minimise the pain that their realization has caused.
There is all kinds of evidence for God's reality and for biblical accuracy. There's also absolute proof of God's reality.
You just reject the evidence altogether and refuse to abide by God's offer to experience his revelation in your life (and therefore you also reject the proof).
God revealed himself to me when I surrendered to him. His presence engulfed me and surrounded me and was so thick it was like moving through water (best I can describe). The presence of the Holy Spirit has been demonstrated and repeated time and time again in my life and those of fellow believers.
If you desire to know God then come to him and believe. If you choose to stick to your guns then do that. I don't suggest the latter, but I'm helpless to do anything about it either.
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Well, it's your premise so I wanted you to outline it more thoroughly so I can better understand. That all important context can mean everything in so many cases.
That is exactly right there was no evidence for them.
There is all kinds of evidence for God's reality and for biblical accuracy. There's also absolute proof of God's reality.
You just reject the evidence altogether and refuse to abide by God's offer to experience his revelation in your life (and therefore you also reject the proof).
God revealed himself to me when I surrendered to him. His presence engulfed me and surrounded me and was so thick it was like moving through water (best I can describe). The presence of the Holy Spirit has been demonstrated and repeated time and time again in my life and those of fellow believers.
If you desire to know God then come to him and believe. If you choose to stick to your guns then do that. I don't suggest the latter, but I'm helpless to do anything about it either.
Where is the objective truth? Not anecdotal evidence like your personal experience or those of others but valid factual evidence.
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Where is the objective truth? Not anecdotal evidence like your personal experience or those of others but valid factual evidence.
What type of reasonable evidence do you require?
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What type of reasonable evidence do you require?
Jesus surrounded by angels bringing him breakfast coffee and donuts....why waste your time MOS?
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What type of reasonable evidence do you require?
The kind that is objectively verifiable.
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The kind that is objectively verifiable.
I think we can agree that the bible contains the Christian God's holy scriptures, yes?
So perhaps if we had some of the following that would be considered quality evidence for God:
-- archeological relics that verify the existence of places and people in the bible
-- extra-biblical accounts that validate the historicity of Jesus Christ's ministry, death and resurrection
-- multiple, independent attestations that agree closely on the facts of Jesus Christ's life, death and resurrection.
-- the fulfillment of prophetic claims spanning hundreds of years between initial prophecy and fulfillment
Would you accept any of that evidence?
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It's obvious by looking at the complexity and order of the universe and even our bodies, that life didn't happen by chance. There is a creator, or God. It's all right there for you. People either ignore this fact out of nativity, ego or they simply are too young to grasp yet.
It's when you start talking about organized religions - that were created by man - that things get messed up.
As it is obvious by looking at an active volcano that the gods are mad and require a human sacrifice...
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I think we can agree that the bible contains the Christian God's holy scriptures, yes?
So perhaps if we had some of the following that would be considered quality evidence for God:
-- archeological relics that verify the existence of places and people in the bible
-- extra-biblical accounts that validate the historicity of Jesus Christ's ministry, death and resurrection
-- multiple, independent attestations that agree closely on the facts of Jesus Christ's life, death and resurrection.
-- the fulfillment of prophetic claims spanning hundreds of years between initial prophecy and fulfillment
Would you accept any of that evidence?
none of that qualifies as independent unbiased evidence. It's conjecture, hearsay and interpretation. Some of it such as some of the writings of Josephus are forgeries.
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none of that qualifies as independent unbiased evidence. It's conjecture, hearsay and interpretation. Some of it such as some of the writings of Josephus are forgeries.
Now of course you can delve into the intracicies of these claims and support them fully, correct?
We can start with the Josephus forgeries if you prefer.
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oh boy....
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Now of course you can delve into the intracicies of these claims and support them fully, correct?
We can start with the Josephus forgeries if you prefer.
Why dont you start. You supported none of these claims. And you can't quote the bible if you want your sources to be unbiased and independent.
I think we can agree that the bible contains the Christian God's holy scriptures, yes?
So perhaps if we had some of the following that would be considered quality evidence for God:
-- archeological relics that verify the existence of places and people in the bible
-- extra-biblical accounts that validate the historicity of Jesus Christ's ministry, death and resurrection
-- multiple, independent attestations that agree closely on the facts of Jesus Christ's life, death and resurrection.
-- the fulfillment of prophetic claims spanning hundreds of years between initial prophecy and fulfillment
Would you accept any of that evidence?
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Why dont you start. You supported none of these claims. And you can't quote the bible if you want your sources to be unbiased and independent.
Ok, that's not a problem...if you'd prefer I go first I will. And you're corect I just put up some varying "buckets" of evidence. I'll post up some lists of specifics I've compiled.
"can't quote the bible".....that's a classic I haven't heard in awhile. Goes right along with your "you can't quote theological and apologetic writings" from this morning.
You let me know if references to Jesus Christ are off limits as well LOL. ::)
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A person who believe in god from the heart dont mention about God that much.
the person who truly believes in their heart in God ... that person can neever stop proclaiming Gods great glory.
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There, there, frightened little one. Yes, yes, I am angry that a non-existent deity gave me inferior genetics. I am also mad that Santa never brought me what I wanted for Christmas even though I was a good boy. Thankyou for praying for me, even though a GOD may find that insulting, because you are essentially suggesting he fucked everything up in the first place and you have noticed this and are now humbly asking him to fix his mistakes. I am sure an all powerful, omniscient and vengeful deity such as GOD will be grateful that you, his sinful and pathetic creation, through your prayers point out his shortcomings.
Translation: "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaa!!!"
Grow up, you pathetic baby. What are you trying to do, audition for your own reality show called, "Keeping up with the Tardashians"? I say we christen you, "Scarecrow".
Lord you are a stupid, rude, man-child. If God truly does exist then the least we can do is direct Him toward your utterly retarded ramblings on Him so that He may amuse Himself at His greatest failure - You.
The use of "Scarecrow" as your new name is in reference to the character in the Wizard of Oz. You really do need a brain.
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I think we can agree that the bible contains the Christian God's holy scriptures, yes?
So perhaps if we had some of the following that would be considered quality evidence for God:
-- archeological relics that verify the existence of places and people in the bible
-- extra-biblical accounts that validate the historicity of Jesus Christ's ministry, death and resurrection
-- multiple, independent attestations that agree closely on the facts of Jesus Christ's life, death and resurrection.
-- the fulfillment of prophetic claims spanning hundreds of years between initial prophecy and fulfillment
Would you accept any of that evidence?
Not of a God. There is NO EVIDENCE that any human being has ever been resurrected, that is simply nonsense. Any account of biblical places and people is simply evidence that a bunch of deluded desert dwellers once existed. If there was a GOD, he would be all powerful, he would know what it would take to convince me and the rest of humanity. GOD could simply choose to perform whatever that was to get me on board the GOD train, no need to make himself so scarce and unavailable and only reach out to the stupid. Just use your infinite powers to expose yourself to humanity. The huge difficulty with your task is trying yo prove something that doesn't exist does in fact exist, it is impossible.
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Not of a God. There is NO EVIDENCE that any human being has ever been resurrected, that is simply nonsense. Any account of biblical places and people is simply evidence that a bunch of deluded desert dwellers once existed. If there was a GOD, he would be all powerful, he would know what it would take to convince me and the rest of humanity. GOD could simply choose to perform whatever that was to get me on board the GOD train, no need to make himself so scarce and unavailable and only reach out to the stupid. Just use your infinite powers to expose yourself to humanity. The huge difficulty with your task is trying yo prove something that doesn't exist does in fact exist, it is impossible.
I can lead anyone to Christ in the next 30 seconds and he will reveal to that person exactly who he is.
The thing I often experience is that so many adults don't want to be lead, don't ever want to be held accountable or even suggested to that there's another way to exist different from their own. So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting God to them. They don't want God in their lives and they certainly don't need God in their lives.
It's taken me a long time to realize that I can't overcome that and that was hard for me to process, but then I finally realized it was never my purpose to "change people". Why? I can't....I'm nobody.
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the problem with religion is it promises prosperity but only collects tithes
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I can lead anyone to Christ in the next 30 seconds and he will reveal to that person exactly who he is.
The thing I often experience is that so many adults don't want to be lead, don't ever want to be held accountable or even suggested to that there's another way to exist different from their own. So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting God to them. They don't want God in their lives and they certainly don't need God in their lives.
It's taken me a long time to realize that I can't overcome that and that was hard for me to process, but then I finally realized it was never my purpose to "change people". Why? I can't....I'm nobody.
MOS, my friend. With regard to your post above and its intended recipient E-Kul...
You can lead a horse to living water but you can't make it drink. Alas, a pig like E-Kul thirsts not for living water, but instead wants only to wallow in the mud of his own making. Shake the dust of him from your feet before he turns that dust into mud.
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I can lead anyone to Christ in the next 30 seconds and he will reveal to that person exactly who he is.
The thing I often experience is that so many adults don't want to be lead, don't ever want to be held accountable or even suggested to that there's another way to exist different from their own. So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting God to them. They don't want God in their lives and they certainly don't need God in their lives.
It's taken me a long time to realize that I can't overcome that and that was hard for me to process, but then I finally realized it was never my purpose to "change people". Why? I can't....I'm nobody.
The irony of your argument is that is the way atheists feel, they learnt that Religious people don't want to be taught the joys of reasoning, of learning to rely on oneself and not rely on delusions to get one through life. To let go of their fear and face it, without the need for an imaginary protector. A religious person could never accept that there's another way to exist different from their own. So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting Reality to them. They don't want reason and rationality in their lives and they certainly don't need Intellectual honesty in their lives.
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The irony of your argument is that is the way atheists feel, they learnt that Religious people don't want to be taught the joys of reasoning, of learning to rely on oneself and not rely on delusions to get one through life. To let go of their fear and face it, without the need for an imaginary protector. A religious person could never accept that there's another way to exist different from their own. So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting Reality to them. They don't want reason and rationality in their lives and they certainly don't need Intellectual honesty in their lives.
Keep wallowing, little piggy. And we "get it", you can shut up now, piggy.
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Keep wallowing, little piggy. And we "get it", you can shut up now, piggy.
I rest my case your Honour.
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I didn't present an argument. I presented a simple comment about leading others to Christ. I then presented an observation based on experience concerning the reactions of so many I've spoken to about Christ. I also presented a realization about myself.
The irony of your argument is that is the way atheists feel, they learnt that Religious people don't want to be taught the joys of reasoning, of learning to rely on oneself and not rely on delusions to get one through life.
The pursuit of reasoning and learning and truth is all I engage in each and every day. I simply desired to know the reality of God and then experienced it....I took proactive steps to do so according to his terms. You refuse to. My experience and ability to reason is more well-rounded than yours because I've actively engaged in both sides.
To let go of their fear and face it, without the need for an imaginary protector.
Believers come to Christ because they recognize the sin in their lives, don't want to live in sin any longer and choose to be reconciled with God. Although, everyone on this planet can live their entire life without God in it. As I mentioned in another thread yesterday, God did not promise that within this life we would never stub our toes, break our arms, get the flu or lose or lives. He did promise that believers will also suffer ridicule and rejection. Despite that, we will exist in this life just like everyone else; although, we have changed our minds about our sin and accepted Christ's offer to be reconciled with him and choose to represent him and share him with others.
A religious person could never accept that there's another way to exist different from their own.
I've already lived part of my without Christ so I've very clearly experienced a different way to exist.
So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting Reality to them.
I've already lived in the reality of this world without Christ and indulged in so many things it has to offer.
They don't want reason and rationality in their lives and they certainly don't need Intellectual honesty in their lives.
The pursuit of reasoning and learning and truth is all I engage in each and every day. I've already studied university level math, accounting, finance, marketing, management, biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, statistics, physics, genetics, sociology, psychology, geography, philosophy, world history, literature, etc......today I study theology, logic, faith, religion and apologetics (and I have a lot to learn!).
Now I know you prefer the last word so feel free to enjoy it.
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Ok, that's not a problem...if you'd prefer I go first I will. And you're corect I just put up some varying "buckets" of evidence. I'll post up some lists of specifics I've compiled.
"can't quote the bible".....that's a classic I haven't heard in awhile. Goes right along with your "you can't quote theological and apologetic writings" from this morning.
You let me know if references to Jesus Christ are off limits as well LOL. ::)
In the process of compiling my lists.
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I can lead anyone to Christ in the next 30 seconds and he will reveal to that person exactly who he is.
The thing I often experience is that so many adults don't want to be lead, don't ever want to be held accountable or even suggested to that there's another way to exist different from their own. So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting God to them. They don't want God in their lives and they certainly don't need God in their lives.
It's taken me a long time to realize that I can't overcome that and that was hard for me to process, but then I finally realized it was never my purpose to "change people". Why? I can't....I'm nobody.
I can in the next 30 seconds produce a purple elephant fluent in 12 languages and can play the guitar. The problem is, I find most people don't allow their hearts and minds to open up to the possiblity this elephant exists, and therefore, are unfortantley unable to see it......
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I can in the next 30 seconds produce a purple elephant fluent in 12 languages and can play the guitar. The problem is, I find most people don't allow their hearts and minds to open up to the possiblity this elephant exists, and therefore, are unfortantley unable to see it......
I'm in 100%! No joke whatsoever. Hey, if you are testifying to this account I will humble myself because I truly desire to experience this like you have.....I'm absolutely ready to believe.
Just lead me to it and help me experience it.
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I'm in 100%! No joke whatsoever. Hey, if you are testifying to this account I will humble myself because I truly desire to experience this like you have.....I'm absolutely ready to believe.
Just lead me to it and help me experience it.
Being Christian, you of course understand that if you don't see it, it will not prove that didn't exist, only that you really weren't trying. ;)
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Being Christian, you of course understand that if you don't see it, it will not prove that didn't exist, only that you really weren't trying. ;)
Being Christian I can assure you of the reality of Christ in your life. My faith isn't blind....it's rock solid and confident. I can't force anyone to take steps they don't want to though.
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Being Christian I can assure you of the reality of Christ in your life. My faith isn't blind....it's rock solid and confident. I can't force anyone to take steps they don't want to though.
As I can assure you the reality of the talented elephant
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As I can assure you the reality of the talented elephant
And I told you I'm fully ready to experience it.....lead me on.
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I don't understand why God (sky fairy) bothers some people so much. They waste so much time hating something they claim doesn't exist. If someone believes and it doesn't affect you, then what is the problem? That being said, ANYTHING taken to extremes is dangerous and unhealthy.
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I don't understand why God (sky fairy) bothers some people so much. They waste so much time hating something they claim doesn't exist. If someone believes and it doesn't affect you, then what is the problem? That being said, ANYTHING taken to extremes is dangerous and unhealthy.
Your post attempts to support a notion of tolerance yet why couldn't you leave out the "sky fairy" potshot? These types of remarks are like uncontrollable ticks by so many unbelievers.
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The "sky fairy" is what the nonbelivers call God in an earlier post. It wasn't a pot shot it anyway.
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The "sky fairy" is what the nonbelivers call God in an earlier post. It wasn't a pot shot it anyway.
My apologies.....I didn't see that and my mistake. Thanks for clarifying!
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No worries! I am a believer, but in God, not religion. Too many false profits. And i respect those that don't believe also. To each his own, just don't tell me what I should or shouldn't believe.
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And I told you I'm fully ready to experience it.....lead me on.
I got 30 seconds, lead me to Jesus, I sure don't want to go to hell if it exists :)
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I don't understand why God (sky fairy) bothers some people so much. They waste so much time hating something they claim doesn't exist. If someone believes and it doesn't affect you, then what is the problem? That being said, ANYTHING taken to extremes is dangerous and unhealthy.
Agreed, if someone believes and it doesn't enchroach upon me, feel free..
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Close your eyes and look into your heart. Whatever you feel is what is the truth. Good luck to you.
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I got 30 seconds, lead me to Jesus, I sure don't want to go to hell if it exists :)
Do you believe that Christ died on Calvary's cross and rose from the dead?
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Close your eyes and look into your heart. Whatever you feel is what is the truth. Good luck to you.
I feel bloated..
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Then that is the truth! lol
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Do you believe that Christ died on Calvary's cross and rose from the dead?
No, I don't
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I don't understand why God (sky fairy) bothers some people so much. They waste so much time hating something they claim doesn't exist. If someone believes and it doesn't affect you, then what is the problem? That being said, ANYTHING taken to extremes is dangerous and unhealthy.
That must be the most naive statement I have ever read, the belief that Religion doesn;t affect people, it affects absolutely everyone. Religion has poisoned humanity, it is responsible for countless suffering and the death of Innocents. It is responsible for terror and evil, it's tentacles negatively effect everything they touch, and Religion has grown to influence politics, war, education and the ethical structures of our sick societies. Religion isn't an antidote to our sick society, it is the reason society is sick. There isn't a single person who isn't affected by religion is some way (mostly negative).
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I rest my case your Honour.
Hello stupid. I treat you as you have treated others. With zero respect.
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Hello stupid. I treat you as you have treated others. With zero respect.
See, this is where you expose yourself, someone having a different opinion to you doesn't mean they are being disrespectful. This is why religion is so dangerous, it makes people judgemental and unable to tolerate other peoples opinions. So when someone says, belief in God is delusional, that's not being disrespectful, that's being honest. IT IS A DELUSION !! Look up the definition of 'delusion' and you will see I am correct. Your constant disrespect of others who don't share your delusions is something I expect, I would be surprised if you weren't so hostile. Those drawn to religion are typically hypocritical, preaching one thing and acting another way, your attitude is part and parcel of the way religious people act, and just one more reason rational people dislike religion.
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See, this is where you expose yourself, someone having a different opinion to you doesn't mean they are being disrespectful. This is why religion is so dangerous, it makes people judgemental and unable to tolerate other peoples opinions. So when someone says, belief in God is delusional, that's not being disrespectful, that's being honest. IT IS A DELUSION !! Look up the definition of 'delusion' and you will see I am correct. Your constant disrespect of others who don't share your delusions is something I expect, I would be surprised if you weren't so hostile. Those drawn to religion are typically hypocritical, preaching one thing and acting another way, your attitude is part and parcel of the way religious people act, and just one more reason rational people dislike religion.
See, this is where I belittle you as you have done to others. The only real difference is that you deserve it for being such an asshole. Don't like it? Get used to disappointment. Just like your parents had too.
You don't deserve any respect.
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See, this is where I belittle you as you have done to others. The only real difference is that you deserve it for being such an asshole. Don't like it? Get used to disappointment. Just like your parents had too.
You don't deserve any respect.
I don't expect any respect from a religious person, that's the whole point. The majority of people who follow religion are incapable of following Jesus and his simple philosophies. You are just an example of why Religion has become so frowned upon, religious people take the moral high ground, pretending to be better people because they are religious and follow the bible and jesus, yet they are often evil people, incapable of the most basic humanity. This is proof that religion doesn't work, it does the opposite. It takes people further and further away from the natural ethical principles inherent in human beings. Human beings are by nature good, religion trains them to be bad and evil and destroys their natural goodness all the while convincing them they are the opposite, holier than thou. Religion teaches you that humans are evil and sinners, this in itself is one of the lies of religion, the real truth is Religion makes people evil and sinners. Religion truly is an evil evil tool.
So when someone suggests this to you, your brainwashing prevents you from even entertaining the idea, Religion has closed your mind. You couldn't recognise goodness if it ran you over in the street. Religion doesn't leave any room for doubt, and doubt is an essential ingredient in finding the truth. Only the individual can find the truth through his own efforts, the truth isn't something that can be told to you by someone else, like religion does. You have been TOLD what to think and believe, and the reason you get so angry when you encounter other peoples ideas is because your thoughts and beliefs are not your own, Religion has prevented you from even knowing what you think or believe.
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I don't expect any respect from a religious person, that's the whole point. The majority of people who follow religion are incapable of following Jesus and his simple philosophies. You are just an example of why Religion has become so frowned upon, religious people take the moral high ground, pretending to be better people because they are religious and follow the bible and jesus, yet they are often evil people, incapable of the most basic humanity. This is proof that religion doesn't work, it does the opposite. It takes people further and further away from the natural ethical principles inherent in human beings. Human beings are by nature good, religion trains them to be bad and evil and destroys their natural goodness all the while convincing them they are the opposite, holier than thou. Religion teaches you that humans are evil and sinners, this in itself is one of the lies of religion, the real truth is Religion makes people evil and sinners. Religion truly is an evil evil tool.
So when someone suggests this to you, your brainwashing prevents you from even entertaining the idea, Religion has closed your mind. You couldn't recognise goodness if it ran you over in the street. Religion doesn't leave any room for doubt, and doubt is an essential ingredient in finding the truth. Only the individual can find the truth through his own efforts, the truth isn't something that can be told to you by someone else, like religion does. You have been TOLD what to think and believe, and the reason you get so angry when you encounter other peoples ideas is because your thoughts and beliefs are not your own, Religion has prevented you from even knowing what you think or believe.
So, based upon your position, both myself and Butterbean are also more evil (or have become evil) because of our faith in Christ? I use the two of us as examples because we moderate the religion board (a potential source of some of that evil you note). Who better to evaluate in the Getbig population than the religion mods, right?
If you were to poll folks on the G&O and simply ask if they feel our faith has made us more evil (given how we have represented that faith to others and of course what they know of us) do you believe the board would agree with your position?
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So, based upon your position, both myself and Butterbean are also more evil (or have become evil) because of our faith in Christ? I use the two of us as examples because we moderate the religion board (a potential source of some of that evil you note). Who better to evaluate in the Getbig population than the religion mods, right?
If you were to poll folks on the G&O and simply ask if they feel our faith has made us more evil (given how we have represented that faith to others and of course what they know of us) do you believe the board would agree with your position?
Reminds me of a surprise conversation I had with a long time co-worker and friend last year at lunch. He believed that because I didn't believe in God that there was nothing stopping me from raping and murdering people. I couldn't believe he thought that...
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Reminds me of a surprise conversation I had with a long time co-worker and friend last year at lunch. He believed that because I didn't believe in God that there was nothing stopping me from raping and murdering people. I couldn't believe he thought that...
That's just plain ignorance LOL.....don't know what else to say.
E-Kul seems to believe that because of my faith I'm far more prone and actually moving towards a lifestyle that would engage in rape and murder. It's actually an interesting position to take. I hope he chooses to respond to my posts because he hasn't lately.
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That's just plain ignorance LOL.....don't know what else to say.
E-Kul seems to believe that because of my faith I'm far more prone and actually moving towards a lifestyle that would engage in rape and murder. It's actually an interesting position to take. I hope he chooses to respond to my posts because he hasn't lately.
You have to take him with a grain of salt. He isn't right in the head.
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So, based upon your position, both myself and Butterbean are also more evil (or have become evil) because of our faith in Christ? I use the two of us as examples because we moderate the religion board (a potential source of some of that evil you note). Who better to evaluate in the Getbig population than the religion mods, right?
If you were to poll folks on the G&O and simply ask if they feel our faith has made us more evil (given how we have represented that faith to others and of course what they know of us) do you believe the board would agree with your position?
Yes, I think religion makes you more evil, first off, you support a GOD of the bible, that is obviously malevolent and genocidal. You then support a text that endorses the killing of homosexuals, slavery, genocide, child abuse etc etc the list goes on and on. And then to top it off after supporting the most unethical of principles in the name of GOD you claim that you are more righteous than non believers and have a paradise waiting for you and non-believers go to hell. Just to make the whole thing even more outrageous, religious people don't live up to their ideals and often through their repressed instincts encouraged by the Church, commit all types of perverse and wicked acts. The fact the average religious person is unaware of the deep immorality by simply being religious and espousing biblical ideals is even more disturbing and the very reason thinking people everywhere despise them. I won't even go into the millions killed in the name of religion, let alone the continuing negative impact it has on politics, education and the wellbeing of the average individual.
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Yes, I think religion makes you more evil, first off, you support a GOD of the bible, that is obviously malevolent and genocidal. You then support a text that supports the killing of homosexuals, slavery, genocide, child abuse etc etc the list goes on and on. And then to top it off after supporting the most unethical of principles in the name of GOD you claim that you are more righteous than non believers and have a paradise waiting for you and non-believers go to hell. Just to make the whole thing even more outrageous, religious people don't live up to their ideals and often through their repressed instincts encouraged by the Church, commit all types of perverse and wicked acts. The fact the average religious person is unaware of the deep immortality by simply being religious and espousing biblical ideals is even more disturbing and the veryreason thinking people everywhere despise them.
I stand corrected..he's spot on :)
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Yes, I think religion makes you more evil, first off, you support a GOD of the bible, that is obviously malevolent and genocidal. You then support a text that supports the killing of homosexuals, slavery, genocide, child abuse etc etc the list goes on and on. And then to top it off after supporting the most unethical of principles in the name of GOD you claim that you are more righteous than non believers and have a paradise waiting for you and non-believers go to hell. Just to make the whole thing even more outrageous, religious people don't live up to their ideals and often through their repressed instincts encouraged by the Church, commit all types of perverse and wicked acts. The fact the average religious person is unaware of the deep immortality by simply being religious and espousing biblical ideals is even more disturbing and the very reason thinking people everywhere despise them. I won't even go into the millions killed in the name of religion, let alone the continuing negative impact it has on politics, education and the wellbeing of the average individual.
I understand your position and your objections and I appreciate the succinct restatement here.
So back to my question from above:
If you were to poll folks on the G&O and simply ask if they feel our faith has made us more evil (given how we have represented that faith to others and of course what they know of us) do you believe the board would agree with your position?
On a sidenote, I wanted to suggest a book you might enjoy written by Paul Copan entitled "Is God A Moral Monster?" (written 3 or 4 years ago). I've discussed Levitical laws of the ancient Israelites and the context therein many times, but I think that book would be a good start to help provide some perspective. You can probably order a copy on Amazon for $10-$11.
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(http://dailyatheistquote.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/14006_455705031173128_1470869474_n-e1365436155210.jpg)
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I stand corrected..he's spot on :)
par for the course
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I understand your position and your objections and I appreciate the succinct restatement here.
So back to my question from above:
If you were to poll folks on the G&O and simply ask if they feel our faith has made us more evil (given how we have represented that faith to others and of course what they know of us) do you believe the board would agree with your position?
On a sidenote, I wanted to suggest a book you might enjoy written by Paul Copan entitled "Is God A Moral Monster?" (written 3 or 4 years ago). I've discussed Levitical laws of the ancient Israelites and the context therein many times, but I think that book would be a good start to help provide some perspective. You can probably order a copy on Amazon for $10-$11.
You are relying on a logical fallacy, the appeal to popularity. AKA an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so."
The issue is, you support an ideology that is based on ignorance and holds unethical views, and not only that, historically it has been responsible for some pretty serious attrocities. Now a lot of people don't like to support guilt by association, but it can't be avoided. Everyone likes to let groups of the hook and find scapegoats, so if say the Police have a culture problem and they start to resemble organised criminals, they blame a few individuals, they find a scapegoat, but we all know the problem isn't the individual, it's the group, it's the culture. So unless the group changes or becomes extinct, the problem remains, and you can throw out all the so called bad seeds all you like. This is the same with the Church, the culture is bad, the ideologies the group is based on are unsound, you can't fix it, it needs to be scrapped.
Nobody blinks an eye when they say a group of Nazis isn't to be tolerated, no matter how nice a group they are and charitable works they do. This is recognition of the dangerousness of 'groups'. Groups are dangerous because they can so easily scapegoat and blame individuals and the group can carry on with their agendas. Groups need to be held accountable, a bit like in the army, when a soldier fucks up, others in the squadron are punished to encourage them to self regulate and avoid an individual affecting the whole group. If you were punished for the indiscretions of your religion, you would soon stop supporting them if they didn't change their ways.
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I don't think your logical fallacy applies to his question. He is not saying "_____ is true because so many people believe in it" He is merely saying that if the group here were polled, would they agree with YOUR hypothesis. I think there is a huge difference
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I don't think your logical fallacy applies to his question. He is not saying "_____ is true because so many people believe in it" He is merely saying that if the group here were polled, would they agree with YOUR hypothesis. I think there is a huge difference
He is relying on the majority agreeing with him, he is saying "If the majority of Getbiggers I poll agree with me, would you take that as evidence that I am not made more evil by my faith and religious beliefs"
In other words he is saying "If many (the majority of getbiggers) believe so, it is so."
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You are relying on a logical fallacy, the appeal to popularity. AKA an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so."
The issue is, you support an ideology that is based on ignorance and holds unethical views, and not only that, historically it has been responsible for some pretty serious attrocities. Now a lot of people don't like to support guilt by association, but it can't be avoided. Everyone likes to let groups of the hook and find scapegoats, so if say the Police have a culture problem and they start to resemble organised criminals, they blame a few individuals, they find a scapegoat, but we all know the problem isn't the individual, it's the group, it's the culture. So unless the group changes or becomes extinct, the problem remains, and you can throw out all the so called bad seeds all you like. This is the same with the Church, the culture is bad, the ideologies the group is based on are unsound, you can't fix it, it needs to be scrapped.
Nobody blinks an eye when they say a group of Nazis isn't to be tolerated, no matter how nice a group they are and charitable works they do. This is recognition of the dangerousness of 'groups'. Groups are dangerous because they can so easily scapegoat and blame individuals and the group can carry on with their agendas. Groups need to be held accountable, a bit like in the army, when a soldier fucks up, others in the squadron are punished to encourage them to self regulate and avoid an individual affecting the whole group. If you were punished for the indiscretions of your religion, you would soon stop supporting them if they didn't change their ways.
You are correct in that a popular opinion does not fully validate the truth or accuracy of a position. If only the irony of this was understood....that's another topic though.
I think we have a simple misunderstanding. I'm not stating an absolute position in regards to your argument and thereby making an appeal via a logical fallacy nor am I suggesting that the opinions of a polling sample make a definitive case.
I asked you about hypothetical polling results which are often used to gather the opinions of others. In fact, I asked you your opinion of what the hypothetical polling results might be (we have no actual pollling results LOL).
That said, the question is out there again and as it stands Agnostic fully agrees with your opinion.
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You are correct in that a popular opinion does not fully validate the truth or accuracy of a position.
You misunderstand though. I'm not stating an absolute position in regards to your argument and thereby making an appeal via a logical fallacy nor am I suggesting that the opinions of a polling sample make a definitive case.
I asked you about hypothetical polling results which are often used to gather the opinions of others. In fact, I asked you your opinion of what the hypothetical polling results might be (we have no pollling results LOL).
That said, the question is out there again and as it stands Agnostic fully agrees with your opinion.
You seem perfectly nice, but so do some dictators, serial killers and pedophiles. I am sure in real life you act decently and are respectful of others, but so were the majority of Nazis. It is your support of what I consider a perverse ideology that bothers me and what happens when enough people endorse the same views and the negative impact it has on other people. It's not so much you as an individual that concerns me, it's what happens when their is a collective of such people, and the political power and influence they wield. That's what bothers me, the company you keep.
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You seem perfectly nice, but so do some dictators, serial killers and pedophiles. I am sure in real life you act decently and are respectful of others, but so were the majority of Nazis. It is your support of what I consider a perverse ideology that bothers me and what happens when enough people endorse the same views and the negative impact it has on other people. It's not so much you as an individual that concerns me, it's what happens when their is a collective of such people, and the political power and influence they wield. That's what bothers me, the company you keep.
You're correct again. I can appear very nice online and be an absolute tyrant towards my family, friends, coworkers, etc.....
All you have is to judge is how I conduct myself online and my assurance that what you see online is what you get in person (and admittedly that doesn't mean much).
Although, you can still form an opinion based on what you do know and that takes me back to my question in which I seek out your opinion about the hypothethical polling results.
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You are correct in that a popular opinion does not fully validate the truth or accuracy of a position. If only the irony of this was understood....that's another topic though.
I think we have a simple misunderstanding. I'm not stating an absolute position in regards to your argument and thereby making an appeal via a logical fallacy nor am I suggesting that the opinions of a polling sample make a definitive case.
I asked you about hypothetical polling results which are often used to gather the opinions of others. In fact, I asked you your opinion of what the hypothetical polling results might be (we have no actual pollling results LOL).
That said, the question is out there again and as it stands Agnostic fully agrees with your opinion.
Just to clarify.. I don't think your faith has made YOU more evil. I believe some very atrocious things have been done in the name of religous faith
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Just to clarify.. I don't think your faith has made YOU more evil. I believe some very atrocious things have been done in the name of religous faith
I appreciate that (and it means more than you know actually).
I also agree with you completely that many, many folks claiming to represent Christ have done some terrible, terrible things in his name.
The early church of Rome and the papacy itself became highly corrupt and both influenced and controlled by governing authorities in Rome. Over time conditions slowly spiraled out of control in some instances.
Hordes of degenerate folks were assembled to protect "the church" and in doing so committed all kinds of horrendous acts that they were never actually called to committ (but who's gonna stop a horde). Church leaders and their followers therein also became corrupt by power and influence. Many, many, many people that were directly associated with "the church" and those indirectly affiliated with (or hired by) "the church" did horrible things in the "name of God".
None of it represented Jesus Christ and none of it was guided by the Holy Spirit.....these were all definite choices of men and women that either lost their way or never had "a way" to begin with.
I excuse none of it and make no apologetic pleas to defend it.....it was flat out wrong and anti-Christ. What's worse is some of it still exists today. If I had my way I'd shut "churches" like Westboro Baptist Church down. Further the priesthood and papacy of the Catholic church should be required to have supervised visitations with children for a long time to come. I know that one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch, but one bad apple out of that bunch can spoil a lot of children (the most precious in Christ's kingdom).
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Good Post
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These discussions seem to be a waste of time. Those that don't believe still don't and those that do, still do. But it is always those that don't that like to point out only the negative side of religion. The wold is a cruel place sometimes, and men have used Christ's name to justify their greed and desire to kill. Jesus never said to kill homosexuals and anyone else! Some pope or king decided to use that for his greedy purpose. Jesus wan't us to love one another, if that offends the non believers then that is too bad. We will have to agree to disagree.
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These discussions seem to be a waste of time. Those that don't believe still don't and those that do, still do. But it is always those that don't that like to point out only the negative side of religion. The wold is a cruel place sometimes, and men have used Christ's name to justify their greed and desire to kill. Jesus never said to kill homosexuals and anyone else! Some pope or king decided to use that for his greedy purpose. Jesus wan't us to love one another, if that offends the non believers then that is too bad. We will have to agree to disagree.
Yeah, but the bible does. Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
You can't have it both ways, religion openly despises homosexuality and does everything to oppress them. And since when have religious people ever cared what Jesus said. Jesus repeatedly criticised the rich and preached a modest lifestyle, yet the Catholic Church is one of the richest organisations on the planet. Face it, to be religious, is to be a hypocrite.
And the reason the argument never gets anywhere is because you can't reason with someone who comes to his conclusions based on the love of ignorance (faith), who believes being ignorant as the way to truth and shuns reason and evidence as a utilitarian intellectual tool to uncover the truth. If someone doesn’t value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide that proves they should value evidence. If someone doesn’t value logic, what logical argument would you invoke to prove they should value logic?
"Tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him, or that frozen yogurt can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to be persuaded only to the extent that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept its every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence what so ever."
― Sam Harris
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And yet in your quote from S. Wienberg, you have a quote where he talks about a place without religion would still have evil people doing eveil things. Isn't evil a religious concept? you can't have it both ways.
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I would agree with you that the Catholic Church, and most of those so called churches are corrupt. But that is man, greedy and corrupt. Your problem is that you lump all Christians into one boat. So you think Mother Teresa was a hypocrite? You think she wanted to kill homosexuals? Really?
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These discussions seem to be a waste of time. Those that don't believe still don't and those that do, still do. But it is always those that don't that like to point out only the negative side of religion. The wold is a cruel place sometimes, and men have used Christ's name to justify their greed and desire to kill. Jesus never said to kill homosexuals and anyone else! Some pope or king decided to use that for his greedy purpose. Jesus wan't us to love one another, if that offends the non believers then that is too bad. We will have to agree to disagree.
If the goal in these discussions was to convert one another then I agree completely....waste of time.
I defend my faith almost everyday not because I feel those that present their objections will convert, but for those that aren't posting yet are reading and haven't made a choice for Christ. I do all I can to respond to every objection presented so the presentation is not one-sided (of course some comments are nonsense and I let that stuff go).
I like to present the contrast between the objectors of Christ and the representatives of Christ and let others decide for themselves. What's wonderful about objections is that they draw attention. I've been in threads in which only 10 people are actively participating for a couple of days but the thread is viewed thousands of times...that's a few thousand people that may get the message of Christ when otherwise they might not. I do all I can to represent Christ, keep a cool head, answer thoroughly, answer logically, answer biblically and answer honestly. I rarely lash out, but admit that I have before and I regret that (it is a struggle not to at times). Still, it's far easier for 10 people to post 30 objections than it is for 1 person to attempt answer them all (but I try). The Lord gives me peace and he's my rock so I don't fear the objectors or let them draw anger and hate out of me.
My prayer is that others will PM me privately (and they do) and ask more questions about faith and Christ. Now if the normal objectors decide to give their lives for Christ then praise God, but I'm under no delusion that they will make such a conversion as I know their minds are firmly and completely made up.
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Well said.
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Yeah, but the bible does. Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
You can't have it both ways, religion openly despises homosexuality and does everything to oppress them. And since when have religious people ever cared what Jesus said. Jesus repeatedly criticised the rich and preached a modest lifestyle, yet the Catholic Church is one of the richest organisations on the planet. Face it, to be religious, is to be a hypocrite.
And the reason the argument never gets anywhere is because you can't reason with someone who comes to his conclusions based on the love of ignorance (faith), who believes being ignorant as the way to truth and shuns reason and evidence as a utilitarian intellectual tool to uncover the truth. If someone doesn’t value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide that proves they should value evidence. If someone doesn’t value logic, what logical argument would you invoke to prove they should value logic?
"Tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him, or that frozen yogurt can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to be persuaded only to the extent that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept its every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence what so ever."
― Sam Harris
Hi stupid.
Leviticus was written for the Levites, one of the tribes of Israel. I would say more but you already knew this, you steaming pile of ignorance. And yes. Homosexuality is a sin, you retard. So is stealing. So is adultery. So are a great many other things. Just be thankful being a stupid Aussie buttwipe isn't a sin, you stupid Aussie buttwipe.
We are not called to take lives (like the Muslims, you retard), but rather to take time and pray for sinners (including ourselves). I really don't care if people don't accept Jesus because I am more concerned with other, more important things.
Such as your being cured of assholism or whatever it is that causes you. Yes, causes "you".
But not you, you worthless Australian mutton muncher. Stupid little man.
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And yet in your quote from S. Wienberg, you have a quote where he talks about a place without religion would still have evil people doing eveil things. Isn't evil a religious concept? you can't have it both ways.
Evil is a moral concept. And morality predates religion, although the Religious like to think they invented it.
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Evil is a moral concept. And morality predates religion, although the Religious like to think they invented it.
That's where I get my best theological guidance.....Seth Macfarlane LOL.
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That's where I get my best theological guidance.....Seth Macfarlane LOL.
So do I ;D
(http://dailyatheistquote.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/seth.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/2YuJ6.jpg)
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So do I ;D
(http://i.imgur.com/2YuJ6.jpg)
To be fair, there is a lot of this kind of thinking on the left.
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So do I ;D
(http://dailyatheistquote.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/seth.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/2YuJ6.jpg)
That figures as Seth is a regular turtle head of an individual.
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So do I ;D
(http://dailyatheistquote.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/seth.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/2YuJ6.jpg)
Well if the family guy said so... ::)
Idiot
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Well if the family guy said so... ::)
Idiot
Yet you believe in what a bunch of illiterate and ignorant desert dwellers said. Go Figure...
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They have more credibility! lol
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I'll break it down in simple terms.
Some people NEED a God to go on and maintain and make sense of their world and upbringing, others don't.
There is a further simplification that you missed. Some people NEED to constantly attack those who believe in G-d to assuage their own guilt and doubts.