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Title: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: calfzilla on December 30, 2014, 06:30:26 PM
Was just online looking at concealed carry holsters and there are lots of nice ones.

Few questions: 

What do you use?

What about boot holsters? (The ones that you strap to your calf; bodybuilding related)

What do you think of this one pictured here?
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Thong Maniac on December 30, 2014, 06:37:35 PM
Anyone under the age of 40 wearing that WILL get laughed at and zero pussy will be had. Fact
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: visualizeperfection on December 30, 2014, 06:42:43 PM
Never ankle.


Not practical when you really need it.

Get a normal sized compact, pancake holster, wear button ups or jackets, or looser fitting t shirts.


Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on December 30, 2014, 06:47:26 PM
Anyone under the age of 40 wearing that WILL get laughed at and zero pussy will be had. Fact

True.  Still, I like it. 

Here are my common choices + fanny pack, of course lol.


+ standard Uncle Mike's cloth IWB for glock
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: SamoanIrishman on December 30, 2014, 06:56:23 PM
I have several for different types of carry and different guns. For example

If going somewhere dangerous like downtown or certain cities ill wear jacket or hoodie and ill carry my full size XD with paddle style holster..

Shorts or jeans and tshirt my Kahr with inside waist holster or undershirt side holster..though the undershirt is a much slower and obvious draw.

http://www.amazon.com/Packin-Tee-V-Neck-T-Shirt-X-Large/dp/B00EG0D9IA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1419994732&sr=8-2&keywords=undershirt+holster


If needs super conceal like in business suit or going somewhere I want to be super stealthy I go undershirt holster or pocket gun (bodyguard .380)

Always have extra mag in pocket of non draw hand

Tried ankle holsters but can never find one that didn't look obvious or move my sock down and rub the bottom of my calf muscle raw when walking

All are SOFT leather or cloth..no hard plastic shot

Don't like the one you have up there or any type of open carry to be honest. If I'm in a place where a guy or two is about to shoot up I don't want them knowing who also has a gun and shoot me first.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on December 30, 2014, 07:01:16 PM
Never ankle.


Not practical when you really need it.

Get a normal sized compact, pancake holster, wear button ups or jackets, or looser fitting t shirts.


Agreed. Strong side belt mount or IWB. Stay away from fads like shoulder rigs (shudder). Be prepared to pay $100 or more for a good holster. Don Hume, Milt Sparks are great, but pricey. Since they busted on the scene, I've been a big fan of High Noon Holsters, hand made in Florida. Good holster for the money.

The fanny packs are gay and the Thunder Wear keeps the pistol pointed at your Johnson all day...very uncomfortable.

And practice, practice, practice your presentation skills. I've seen guys buy fancy retention rigs and then forget how to get the gun out on a simple timed draw-to-target. Very embarrassing.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: HTexan on December 30, 2014, 07:09:13 PM
Was just online looking at concealed carry holsters and there are lots of nice ones.

Few questions: 

What do you use?

What about boot holsters? (The ones that you strap to your calf; bodybuilding related)

What do you think of this one pictured here?

That one looks lame.
http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/
Only holsters you will ever need.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Grape Ape on December 30, 2014, 07:33:32 PM
True.  Still, I like it. 

Here are my common choices + fanny pack, of course lol.


+ standard Uncle Mike's cloth IWB for glock

Just curious, why do you carry?
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on December 30, 2014, 07:46:57 PM
Just curious, why do you carry?

I grew up in ohio, in public housing near cleveland.   My dad was a federal firearms dealer for years.  we had M16s laying around the house as long as I could remember.  I never really cared much for guns, didn't like them to be honest.  I always did wrestling then TKD in high school, so gun weren't my thing.

Then i moved to trailer parks in florida... EVERYONE had guns here just a part of the culture.  So when I turned 21, I got my permit and have carried ever since.   My brother shot a dude that tried to rob his pharmacy, ten years back.   Planned to execute my little bro.  That kinda solidified my belief that a gun is just a necessary tool for every man to possess.  I've taken punches and walked away from many winnable fights while armed.   Gotta be smarter than that bullshit.

So I carry to protect me and family in an unsafe world.   Two days ago, a 14 and 16yr old  were arrested for carjacking - at a gas station adjacent to a playground I visit regularly.  Nicer neighborhood too.   We're talking early high schoolers, grabbing a car while armed.  Scary shit. 
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: BB on December 30, 2014, 09:57:55 PM
IWB, strong side, barrel angled down, foward grip angle, ala -

(http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Image244.jpg).

Seems to work best for most situations.

Remember to pay for a good belt too  :).


Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on December 31, 2014, 07:41:11 AM
Make sure you choose one that retains the gun well yet is easy to do a fast, clean draw. I prefer kydex iwb strong side. They conceal the best in the small of back area by far, but its a sloooow hard draw from there and it is uncomfortable as hell to sit down
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Thong Maniac on December 31, 2014, 07:46:26 AM
I grew up in ohio, in public housing near cleveland.   My dad was a federal firearms dealer for years.  we had M16s laying around the house as long as I could remember.  I never really cared much for guns, didn't like them to be honest.  I always did wrestling then TKD in high school, so gun weren't my thing.

Then i moved to trailer parks in florida... EVERYONE had guns here just a part of the culture.  So when I turned 21, I got my permit and have carried ever since.   My brother shot a dude that tried to rob his pharmacy, ten years back.   Planned to execute my little bro.  That kinda solidified my belief that a gun is just a necessary tool for every man to possess.  I've taken punches and walked away from many winnable fights while armed.   Gotta be smarter than that bullshit.

So I carry to protect me and family in an unsafe world.   Two days ago, a 14 and 16yr old  were arrested for carjacking - at a gas station adjacent to a playground I visit regularly.  Nicer neighborhood too.   We're talking early high schoolers, grabbing a car while armed.  Scary shit. 

Would u engage two crazy ass teens though in a gun fight? Not judging, just asking. The dirty harry scenario of blasting the bad guys with two well placed shots is far fetched
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: LittleJ on December 31, 2014, 07:55:43 AM
I don't carry any weapon.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: IronMeister on December 31, 2014, 08:15:35 AM
(http://blog.relationshipsurgery.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-14-at-21.46.21.png)
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Rambone on December 31, 2014, 08:31:42 AM
I just bought a pistol, so my girlfriend could carry in her purse and have some protection since we have a 2 year old son. I actually sent her to Walmart yesterday to buy some more bullets, and she still hasn't come back yet. She probably just got lost on her way home. You know how women can be!
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: oldtimer1 on December 31, 2014, 08:51:40 AM
I have carried for 30 years. I think the most important thing is first safety then knowing how to shoot.

 Other considerations is knowing that when you carry you shouldn't have the stand your ground mentality. That's for cops regardless of what your state law says if you want to avoid killing someone without a real cause. Your mentality should be a retreating one if you can to avoid gun fire. Another factor is the tough guy mentality some get when they carry. It seems some guys carry almost looking for trouble. Remember in a wrestling situation your opponent has access to your gun too.

Too many guys when threatened by say a drunk with getting punched stand their ground and it could end up with a deadly shooting. Sometimes you just have to smile knowing you are armed and get out of the situation. Just last week I was taking a leak at a urinal and a drunk threaded to kick my ass if I didn't hurry. I smiled at him walking past him knowing the wrong move would have been to get into a UFC fight with him when I carried a gun. That ass hole didn't know he was messing with a 800lbs gorilla.

Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: calfzilla on December 31, 2014, 09:03:15 AM
I just bought a pistol, so my girlfriend could carry in her purse and have some protection since we have a 2 year old son. I actually sent her to Walmart yesterday to buy some more bullets, and she still hasn't come back yet. She probably just got lost on her way home. You know how women can be!

 :o
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on December 31, 2014, 09:25:55 AM
I just bought a pistol, so my girlfriend could carry in her purse and have some protection since we have a 2 year old son. I actually sent her to Walmart yesterday to buy some more bullets, and she still hasn't come back yet. She probably just got lost on her way home. You know how women can be!

Lmao
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on December 31, 2014, 10:12:44 AM
Would u engage two crazy ass teens though in a gun fight? Not judging, just asking. The dirty harry scenario of blasting the bad guys with two well placed shots is far fetched

if there were a gunfight, it wouldn't occur unless it was absolutely necessary. 

I pray it never happens.  Statistically it won't.  But in real life, if it ever did, I'd be a bawling school girl begging them for mercy then I'd empty that gun into two midsections and pray I make it home that night.   Sucks that someone like that could pop off at any second, I pray it never does... but kids can be crazy these days.   A few miles from there, a 13 year old put on a hockey mask and stabbed a homeless man to death for fun.  WTF.   it's news for a day then it's over. 

the world is scary, dude.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on December 31, 2014, 10:16:18 AM
if there were a gunfight, it wouldn't occur unless it was absolutely necessary. 

I pray it never happens.  Statistically it won't.  But in real life, if it ever did, I'd be a bawling school girl begging them for mercy then I'd empty that gun into two midsections and pray I make it home that night.   Sucks that someone like that could pop off at any second, I pray it never does... but kids can be crazy these days.   A few miles from there, a 13 year old put on a hockey mask and stabbed a homeless man to death for fun.  WTF.   it's news for a day then it's over. 

the world is scary, dude.

Admitting that you would fold up like a lawn chair may I suggest you sell all your weapons and donate the proceeds to a battered woman's shelter.  You don't need to own weapons of any kind and you don't need to be carrying them around in public.  You're likely to go Zimmerman on someone.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Thong Maniac on December 31, 2014, 10:17:26 AM
if there were a gunfight, it wouldn't occur unless it was absolutely necessary. 

I pray it never happens.  Statistically it won't.  But in real life, if it ever did, I'd be a bawling school girl begging them for mercy then I'd empty that gun into two midsections and pray I make it home that night.   Sucks that someone like that could pop off at any second, I pray it never does... but kids can be crazy these days.   A few miles from there, a 13 year old put on a hockey mask and stabbed a homeless man to death for fun.  WTF.   it's news for a day then it's over. 

the world is scary, dude.

Yeah man its scary as shit. Dont get me wrong, im fully strapped and ready to go if someone was to pull a home invasion. However, im under no delusions that I wouldnt be a shaky, scared out of my mind 12 yr old crying and forgetting how to even use my guns. It would just be a life changing situation and totally bad in all possible outcomes
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on December 31, 2014, 10:19:48 AM
Admitting that you would fold up like a lawn chair may I suggest you sell all your weapons and donate the proceeds to a battered woman's shelter.  You don't need to own weapons of any kind and you don't need to be carrying them around in public.  You're likely to go Zimmerman on someone.

???   The crying, surrendering and submissiveness is a strategy used to bring the aggressor's focus away from "will this guy submit" to "i have this car, what is next?"

His eyes, mind, and focus move from me.  I become secondary and that gives me a strategic advantage.  

The LAST thing I do is give him a Dirty Harry line, sneer, and go for my piece lol.  




Zimmerman chased a kid 2 blocks to initiate a gun battle.  I'm doing everything I can to avoid one.  Big diff there.  
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on December 31, 2014, 10:28:49 AM
???   The crying, surrendering and submissiveness is a strategy used to bring the aggressor's focus away from "will this guy submit" to "i have this car, what is next?"

His eyes, mind, and focus move from me.  I become secondary and that gives me a strategic advantage.  

The LAST thing I do is give him a Dirty Harry line, sneer, and go for my piece lol.  




Zimmerman chased a kid 2 blocks to initiate a gun battle.  I'm doing everything I can to avoid one.  Big diff there.  

If you are incapable of using a gun, as you readily admit-you don't need to be in public with one.  You're a danger to yourself and others.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Alucard on December 31, 2014, 10:30:01 AM
Yeah man its scary as shit. Dont get me wrong, im fully strapped and ready to go if someone was to pull a home invasion. However, im under no delusions that I wouldnt be a shaky, scared out of my mind 12 yr old crying and forgetting how to even use my guns. It would just be a life changing situation and totally bad in all possible outcomes
Nothing can prepare you for a real life gunfight scenario, controlling your emotions and body... You can be the most badass marksman with years and years of combat/firearms training, but when fear and adrenaline starts to flow it's a complete different game... I don't wish a real life gunfight to anyone, period...
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on December 31, 2014, 10:34:27 AM
If you are incapable of using a gun, as you readily admit-you don't need to be in public with one.  You're a danger to yourself and others.

I'm not sure you understand.

One strategy for surviving a gun battle is appearing to be submissive, scared, and cooperative to the bad guy - THEN pulling your weapon once his guard is down a bit more.

Many people that survive robberies - when the gun is initially ON THEM - will appear to surrender/agree, then as the bad guy uses hands/eyes to secure keys, $, etc - THEN they draw their weapon.   One never knows when the bad guy plans to shoot you after your cooperation to avoid witnesses, or just because he's a prick.

Archer77, I pray I'm never in a gun battle.  We never know how we'll react.  But using a strategy of appearing to first be cooperative can greatly improve chances for survival.   I'm not sure you understood my initial response here.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on December 31, 2014, 10:38:25 AM
I'm not sure you understand.

One strategy for surviving a gun battle is appearing to be submissive, scared, and cooperative to the bad guy - THEN pulling your weapon once his guard is down a bit more.

Many people that survive robberies - when the gun is initially ON THEM - will appear to surrender/agree, then as the bad guy uses hands/eyes to secure keys, $, etc - THEN they draw their weapon.   One never knows when the bad guy plans to shoot you after your cooperation to avoid witnesses, or just because he's a prick.

Archer77, I pray I'm never in a gun battle.  We never know how we'll react.  But using a strategy of appearing to first be cooperative can greatly improve chances for survival.   I'm not sure you understood my initial response here.

You said how you would react.  The likely scenario is you end up dead and someone has your gun.  Don't carry a weapon in public if you are going to freeze up. There is no point and you're endangering others.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on December 31, 2014, 10:52:33 AM
You said how you would react.

Correct.  That is exactly how I'd react.  Tears and begging initially.

I'm not sure you're understanding my post, but okay. 
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on December 31, 2014, 10:55:14 AM
Correct.  That is exactly how I'd react.  Tears and begging initially.

I'm not sure you're understanding my post, but okay.  

Why carry a weapon in public?  What would be the purpose of carrying a gun when you are incapable of using it?  Does it make you feel better?  More protected?  
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Bernie King on December 31, 2014, 11:00:46 AM
I am LMFAO at the pussies in this thread. Kiddies, that's exactly why I told you to go learn from Vietnam Vet Bobbie Taylor.



Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Bernie King on December 31, 2014, 11:02:22 AM
Why carry a weapon in public?  What would be the purpose of carry a gun when you are incapable of using it?  Does it make you feel better?  More protected? 

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OLOLOLOL.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: LittleJ on December 31, 2014, 11:04:49 AM
Correct.  That is exactly how I'd react.  Tears and begging initially.

I'm not sure you're understanding my post, but okay. 

Archer is on drugs. He doesn't understand anything.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on December 31, 2014, 11:09:08 AM
Archer is on drugs. He doesn't understand anything.

You're obsessed with me, littlejenkam.  Are you going to be as obsessed with me as you are with booty?  After booty's rejection you become her whiny stalker. She really got to you. Now run along and cry to Ron.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on December 31, 2014, 11:40:59 AM
Why carry a weapon in public?  What would be the purpose of carrying a gun when you are incapable of using it?  Does it make you feel better?  More protected? 

(http://media1.giphy.com/media/rJ0w60oeJ3Im4/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: visualizeperfection on December 31, 2014, 11:44:06 AM
I get what you're saying 240, I would do something very similar. Its actually a part of the magpul training.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on December 31, 2014, 11:48:11 AM
(http://media1.giphy.com/media/rJ0w60oeJ3Im4/giphy.gif)

Im asking you a question.  Why carry a weapon in public if you are  incapable of using it?  You'll get someone killed.  That person most likely being you
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Twaddle on December 31, 2014, 02:49:24 PM
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on December 31, 2014, 03:43:29 PM
I get what you're saying 240, I would do something very similar. Its actually a part of the magpul training.

I think that I need to know more about this "sobbing while strapped" plan.

The three times that I have been in a high-stress situation while carrying, my plan was to GTFO and evac asap (once with family). Didn't really stop to think about personal comportment. I am guessing it is more of a "dead to rights" kind of plan. I prefer condition orange to white.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Brixtonbulldog on December 31, 2014, 03:50:07 PM

Zimmerman chased a kid 2 blocks to initiate a gun battle.  

i'm surprised that you came to this conclusion.  there is literally no evidence to support this.  the confrontation happened so near the vehicle that martin would have HAD to have followed zim back to his car and then deliberately attacked him, all after zim had stopped following martin. 

Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on December 31, 2014, 04:01:02 PM
i'm surprised that you came to this conclusion.  there is literally no evidence to support this.  the confrontation happened so near the vehicle that martin would have HAD to have followed zim back to his car and then deliberately attacked him, all after zim had stopped following martin. 



Shit stain is using weasel words.  He's been doing it from the beginning.  The other shit stain Andre does the same thing when he uses the term stalking. 
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: visualizeperfection on December 31, 2014, 04:05:49 PM
I think that I need to know more about this "sobbing while strapped" plan.

The three times that I have been in a high-stress situation while carrying, my plan was to GTFO and evac asap (once with family). Didn't really stop to think about personal comportment. I am guessing it is more of a "dead to rights" kind of plan. I prefer condition orange to white.

Theatricality and deception. Powerful agents.


Would-be robber/murder/black person etc etc would think you are soft and week, no threat to him. He has less a reason to get jumpy and execute.


Training is so important. It has to be 100% muscle memory, thats why I have ONE gun. ONE.

Possibility to lure him closer, where you would be able to RCAT,/
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on December 31, 2014, 04:28:18 PM
Theatricality and deception. Powerful agents.


Would-be robber/murder/black person etc etc would think you are soft and week, no threat to him. He has less a reason to get jumpy and execute.


Training is so important. It has to be 100% muscle memory, thats why I have ONE gun. ONE.

Possibility to lure him closer, where you would be able to RCAT,/

Pretty much only train with Glocks, all with 5.5 lb trigger/connector. But I have many, MANY Glocks. All over the fucking country, actually.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Bernie King on December 31, 2014, 06:07:34 PM
Theatricality and deception. Powerful agents.


Would-be robber/murder/black person etc etc would think you are soft and week, no threat to him. He has less a reason to get jumpy and execute.


Training is so important. It has to be 100% muscle memory, thats why I have ONE gun. ONE.

Possibility to lure him closer, where you would be able to RCAT,/

Hey turd burger, let old Bobbie Taylor open your blinkered eyes with regard to deception. Little coontheads like you could sure use the education.


Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: SamoanIrishman on December 31, 2014, 06:18:05 PM
Good advice here by some... here is my $0.02

Guns are tools. Have different tools for different jobs, hence why I have several sizes of guns and holsters

Train train train

Don't own guns and not own a safe if you have kids....ie - use common sense fucking morons.

Think long and hard if you can take a life. If you cant, please don't carry and get yourself and others killed.

Best advice many wont tell you...

KNOW YOUR LOCAL DEADLY FORCE LAWS better than the police

Have an attorney's number on hand. Even if you are legally legit in killing someone, doesn't mean their family wont try and sue you civilly in court.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: visualizeperfection on December 31, 2014, 06:25:02 PM
Good advice here by some... here is my $0.02

Guns are tools. Have different tools for different jobs, hence why I have several sizes of guns and holsters

Train train train

Don't own guns and not own a safe if you have kids....ie - use common sense fucking morons.

Think long and hard if you can take a life. If you cant, please don't carry and get yourself and others killed.

Best advice many wont tell you...

KNOW YOUR LOCAL DEADLY FORCE LAWS better than the police

Have an attorney's number on hand. Even if you are legally legit in killing someone, doesn't mean their family wont try and sue you civilly in court.

Great post.


I dont like guns, I am not a gun nut, I am very proficient with my chosen weapon system. I wish we didnt live in an unsure social climate; but it behooves us to prepare for the worst.

I have considered putting together a rifle and other "the shit has hit the fan" preparations. Not sure yet.

 
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: SamoanIrishman on December 31, 2014, 06:45:33 PM
Great post.


I dont like guns, I am not a gun nut, I am very proficient with my chosen weapon system. I wish we didnt live in an unsure social climate; but it behooves us to prepare for the worst.

I have considered putting together a rifle and other "the shit has hit the fan" preparations. Not sure yet.

 

I agree. Been deployed and can honestly look anyone in the eye and say I can and will kill if you make me and sleep fine ...but honestly,  I hate that I have to carry a gun to make my wife and kids feel safe. We go downtown, my kids  remind me of two things... get my gun and wear my seatbelt.  I hate war, violence and wish in a perfect world we could get rid of them all... then I remember how evil man is. No guns... fine, everyone will carry swords... no swords, knives.... no knives sticks. No matter the technology, in these times man is just evil to each other and you have to make a choice to protect yourself and your loved ones or depend on police to get there on time or outstanding luck that nothing will ever happen to you or your loved ones.... which seem to be famous last words.

Humans suck like that I guess.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Voice of Doom on December 31, 2014, 06:51:54 PM
http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=95

If winter weather I'll carry OWB with a longer heavy coat and full size pistol.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Bernie King on December 31, 2014, 07:38:11 PM
I agree. Been deployed and can honestly look anyone in the eye and say I can and will kill if you make me and sleep fine ...but honestly,  I hate that I have to carry a gun to make my wife and kids feel safe. We go downtown, my kids  remind me of two things... get my gun and wear my seatbelt.  I hate war, violence and wish in a perfect world we could get rid of them all... then I remember how evil man is. No guns... fine, everyone will carry swords... no swords, knives.... no knives sticks. No matter the technology, in these times man is just evil to each other and you have to make a choice to protect yourself and your loved ones or depend on police to get there on time or outstanding luck that nothing will ever happen to you or your loved ones.... which seem to be famous last words.

Humans suck like that I guess.

You have no clue, have you? The statistics show that countless victims were shot with their own weapon. Most attacks happen in close quarters, which means there's a high chance you aren't going to be able to get an accurate shot off in time. Even if you do manage to hit the attacker, unless you are fortunate enough to hit the brain or the heart, the perp won't necessarily go down immediately. Those few seconds could easily see him getting HIS weapon out and filling YOU with lead or stabbing/bludgeoning you to death, especially if he is a big guy.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: visualizeperfection on December 31, 2014, 07:39:45 PM
You have no clue, have you? The statistics show that countless victims were shot with their own weapon. Most attacks happen in close quarters, which means there's a high chance you aren't going to be able to get an accurate shot off in time. Even if you do manage to hit the attacker, unless you are fortunate enough to hit the brain or the heart, the perp won't necessarily go down immediately. Those few seconds could easily see him getting HIS weapon out and filling YOU with lead or stabbing/bludgeoning you to death, especially if he is a big guy.

Teach us your secrets, combat veteran.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: LittleJ on December 31, 2014, 07:43:31 PM
I agree. Been deployed and can honestly look anyone in the eye and say I can and will kill if you make me and sleep fine ...but honestly,  I hate that I have to carry a gun to make my wife and kids feel safe. We go downtown, my kids  remind me of two things... get my gun and wear my seatbelt.  I hate war, violence and wish in a perfect world we could get rid of them all... then I remember how evil man is. No guns... fine, everyone will carry swords... no swords, knives.... no knives sticks. No matter the technology, in these times man is just evil to each other and you have to make a choice to protect yourself and your loved ones or depend on police to get there on time or outstanding luck that nothing will ever happen to you or your loved ones.... which seem to be famous last words.

Humans suck like that I guess.

Move to Japan.

No crime. ...
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: calfzilla on December 31, 2014, 08:33:25 PM
I would be very uncomfortable shooting anyone outside of my own home.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Bernie King on December 31, 2014, 09:57:25 PM
I'm sure you would rather polish my head.

You are too weak to defend yourself against the thugs you fantasize of blasting away with your gun (because you can't fight). You are just a little pussy and that's all you will ever be. Keep your head in the sand, chicken (shit).
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: visualizeperfection on December 31, 2014, 09:59:28 PM
You are too weak to defend yourself against the thugs you fantasize of blasting away with your gun (because you can't fight). You are just a little pussy and that's all you will ever be. Keep your head in the sand, chicken (shit).

I don't want to fight anyone. I definitely don't want to shoot anyone. I'm an adult that minds his own business.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on December 31, 2014, 11:23:08 PM
i'm surprised that you came to this conclusion.  there is literally no evidence to support this.  the confrontation happened so near the vehicle that martin would have HAD to have followed zim back to his car and then deliberately attacked him, all after zim had stopped following martin. 

at his truck, zimm told police "he's getting away" and ran after him.

Trayvon's body was found dead 2 blocks away. 

I'm not sure where this theory of "going back to the truck" came from lol... look at where the body is.  The only debate is whether zimmerman somehow caught trayvon trailing him - OR zimmerman (head of neighborhood watch) cut THRU the yards in order to intercept Trayvon.

There was no "circle back to truck".   LOL. 
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on December 31, 2014, 11:27:10 PM
I don't want to fight anyone. I definitely don't want to shoot anyone. I'm an adult that minds his own business.

most of us are.  My #1 option in any confrontation would be "Get.  The.  Fuck.  Out.  Of.  There."

I sure don't want a fight nor a gun battle.  I'm only talking if I'm cornered and it's the last option.   I pray I never get in a gun fight, and by being a pussy and avoiding fights and backing down from getting punched and taking the long way at times and sometimes not stopping at a place - I *have* avoided a gun fight for 17 years of carrying a piece now.

And I'll keep right on being a wimp... if shady people are at that spot, I don't care if I've got glock in my hand, I keep on to the next gas station, even if I really really really have to pee lol.

It's not worth it.  All gun owners should ditch that "stand your ground" bullshit and instead, focus on being the BIGGER WIMP in a confrontation.  I always do.  I always back down.  Now, if you are pulling my keys, my child, my wifey, well, I have to prevent a forcible felony and will use force then.  But in 99% of situations, I'm apologizing and backing down from threats, even when it's a punk idiot I could beat senseless physically.   NOT WORTH IT.   I save face because I know the glock I have could knock this little bastard right out of his shoes - but i respect life and the law, and basic decency, enough to just back down.  Every time.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on January 01, 2015, 01:44:14 AM
most of us are.  My #1 option in any confrontation would be "Get.  The.  Fuck.  Out.  Of.  There."

I sure don't want a fight nor a gun battle.  I'm only talking if I'm cornered and it's the last option.   I pray I never get in a gun fight, and by being a pussy and avoiding fights and backing down from getting punched and taking the long way at times and sometimes not stopping at a place - I *have* avoided a gun fight for 17 years of carrying a piece now.

And I'll keep right on being a wimp... if shady people are at that spot, I don't care if I've got glock in my hand, I keep on to the next gas station, even if I really really really have to pee lol.

It's not worth it.  All gun owners should ditch that "stand your ground" bullshit and instead, focus on being the BIGGER WIMP in a confrontation.  I always do.  I always back down.  Now, if you are pulling my keys, my child, my wifey, well, I have to prevent a forcible felony and will use force then.  But in 99% of situations, I'm apologizing and backing down from threats, even when it's a punk idiot I could beat senseless physically.   NOT WORTH IT.   I save face because I know the glock I have could knock this little bastard right out of his shoes - but i respect life and the law, and basic decency, enough to just back down.  Every time.

Don't carry a weapon in public.  When you start shit staining your panties the bad guy will already have your gun and be hurting more people-the first person being you.   If you know you're a major pussy and won't use your weapon why bother carrying it.  You don't save face by carrying a gun and being a pussy and not using it.  It's not that you choose not to use your weapon its that you are to scare to use it.  Big difference.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: visualizeperfection on January 01, 2015, 01:58:08 AM
Don't carry a weapon in public.  When you start shit staining your panties the bad guy will already have your gun and be hurting more people-the first person being you.   If you know you're a major pussy and won't use your weapon why bother carrying it.  You don't save face by carrying a gun and being a pussy and not using it.  It's not that you choose not to use your weapon its that you are to scare to use it.  Big difference.

You must be a very brave and strong man.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on January 01, 2015, 02:20:08 AM
You must be a very brave and strong man.

I dont carry a weapon in public because I know I'm not John Wayne .  I dont carry a weapon knowing I'm to much of chicken shit to use it(240) only to turn around and try to convince  myself that being too frightened to use my weapon somehow makes me the bigger person and saves face. 
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: visualizeperfection on January 01, 2015, 02:28:11 AM
I dont carry a weapon in public because I know I'm not John Wayne .  I dont carry a weapon knowing I'm to much of chicken shit to use it(240) only to turn around and try to convince  myself that being too frightened to use my weapon somehow makes me the bigger person and saves face. 

You have to understand a simple fact; he is currently still alive. As we speak.


So to this day he has never had to use it.


I would forfeit my car, wallet, and the 5k watch on my wrist before I took a life.


The emotional aspect of taking a human life, the absolute legal shitstorm that would follow a fatal shooting,  and other reasons outweigh shooting "because I can".




Having said that; if I feel that being able to take my belongings is not enough, and that my life or the life of someone I am with is in danger, I will shoot without hesitation. I already have black marks on my soul, I can deal with a few more.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on January 01, 2015, 05:35:41 AM
Don't carry a weapon in public.  When you start shit staining your panties the bad guy will already have your gun and be hurting more people-the first person being you.   If you know you're a major pussy and won't use your weapon why bother carrying it.  You don't save face by carrying a gun and being a pussy and not using it.  It's not that you choose not to use your weapon its that you are to scare to use it.  Big difference.

You keep misunderstanding what the man is writing here. As a responsible gun owner, he is committing himself to strategies of avoidance and de-escalation which is laudable, reasonable and responsible (also contributes to old age).

I too carry a gun on occasion. I have had a carry permit for almost 30 years. I have been a combat instructor for civilian, law enforcement and military since 1991. I have been shot at and returned fire. 240's instincts are quite good here.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Thong Maniac on January 01, 2015, 06:04:13 AM
I don't want to fight anyone. I definitely don't want to shoot anyone. I'm an adult that minds his own business.

This
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Thong Maniac on January 01, 2015, 06:06:47 AM
most of us are.  My #1 option in any confrontation would be "Get.  The.  Fuck.  Out.  Of.  There."

I sure don't want a fight nor a gun battle.  I'm only talking if I'm cornered and it's the last option.   I pray I never get in a gun fight, and by being a pussy and avoiding fights and backing down from getting punched and taking the long way at times and sometimes not stopping at a place - I *have* avoided a gun fight for 17 years of carrying a piece now.

And I'll keep right on being a wimp... if shady people are at that spot, I don't care if I've got glock in my hand, I keep on to the next gas station, even if I really really really have to pee lol.

It's not worth it.  All gun owners should ditch that "stand your ground" bullshit and instead, focus on being the BIGGER WIMP in a confrontation.  I always do.  I always back down.  Now, if you are pulling my keys, my child, my wifey, well, I have to prevent a forcible felony and will use force then.  But in 99% of situations, I'm apologizing and backing down from threats, even when it's a punk idiot I could beat senseless physically.   NOT WORTH IT.   I save face because I know the glock I have could knock this little bastard right out of his shoes - but i respect life and the law, and basic decency, enough to just back down.  Every time.

You are the one person that i feel SHOULD carry. Ego/pride should never be a reason to pull a gat and use it. You sound like a mature adult unlike many of the neo-con gun nuts posting in here
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on January 01, 2015, 06:24:09 AM
The perfect pistol, IMHO: Glock 19. With +2 mags, it hold 17 rounds of 9mm and one in the pipe. For me, it handles like a dream, concealable and comfortable. I own 3.

Modern defense 9mm (Gold Dot, Critical Defense) is as effective as modern .45 and a lot less recoil.

That said, I do want a G41 in .45.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Grape Ape on January 01, 2015, 07:36:51 AM
I grew up in ohio, in public housing near cleveland.   My dad was a federal firearms dealer for years.  we had M16s laying around the house as long as I could remember.  I never really cared much for guns, didn't like them to be honest.  I always did wrestling then TKD in high school, so gun weren't my thing.

Then i moved to trailer parks in florida... EVERYONE had guns here just a part of the culture.  So when I turned 21, I got my permit and have carried ever since.   My brother shot a dude that tried to rob his pharmacy, ten years back.   Planned to execute my little bro.  That kinda solidified my belief that a gun is just a necessary tool for every man to possess.  I've taken punches and walked away from many winnable fights while armed.   Gotta be smarter than that bullshit.

So I carry to protect me and family in an unsafe world.   Two days ago, a 14 and 16yr old  were arrested for carjacking - at a gas station adjacent to a playground I visit regularly.  Nicer neighborhood too.   We're talking early high schoolers, grabbing a car while armed.  Scary shit. 

Thanks for a legit answer.

I go back and forth on the issue.

On one hand, I agree with you and I get it.  Especially  the culture part in your arean.

On the other, you're probably 100x more likely to get in a car accident than a confrontation, so why not make your family wear helmets every time you drive to protect them?  In other words, I feel the protection issue can just be an excuse because you want to carry a gun.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on January 01, 2015, 07:43:04 AM
Carrying a gun is a total pain in ass.  I love the free feeling when I'm at a water park when i am free of that burden.   If anything ever happens, I bear that responsibility it'll probably be me trading lives with that bad guy so my family can walk away.  In most dedicated shootings, the "hero" is going in the same coroners van as the shooter.  Totally shitty responsibility. 
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on January 01, 2015, 07:57:59 AM
Thanks for a legit answer.

I go back and forth on the issue.

On one hand, I agree with you and I get it.  Especially  the culture part in your arean.

On the other, you're probably 100x more likely to get in a car accident than a confrontation, so why not make your family wear helmets every time you drive to protect them?  In other words, I feel the protection issue can just be an excuse because you want to carry a gun.

It's like a life insurance policy...you hope you don't need it, but you also hope that you have it when you do need it.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Grape Ape on January 01, 2015, 09:10:35 AM
It's like a life insurance policy...you hope you don't need it, but you also hope that you have it when you do need it.

I get it, but my point is that there are plenty of other events that are soooo much more likely to happen, probability wise, that people don't plan for.

It's like living near a lake, but getting drought protection instead of flood protection.

People just get so used to having a gun, they feel wrong without it.  Heck, I feel the same way when I commute and I don't have my tactical flashlight and knife.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: LittleJ on January 01, 2015, 09:12:04 AM
You keep misunderstanding what the man is writing here. As a responsible gun owner, he is committing himself to strategies of avoidance and de-escalation which is laudable, reasonable and responsible (also contributes to old age).

I too carry a gun on occasion. I have had a carry permit for almost 30 years. I have been a combat instructor for civilian, law enforcement and military since 1991. I have been shot at and returned fire. 240's instincts are quite good here.

He's jealous of 240
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on January 01, 2015, 09:18:48 AM
He's jealous of 240

Littlejenkem the narc.   Somebody call the RONBULANCE littlejenkem has sand in his vagina again.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on January 01, 2015, 09:25:03 AM
You keep misunderstanding what the man is writing here. As a responsible gun owner, he is committing himself to strategies of avoidance and de-escalation which is laudable, reasonable and responsible (also contributes to old age).

I too carry a gun on occasion. I have had a carry permit for almost 30 years. I have been a combat instructor for civilian, law enforcement and military since 1991. I have been shot at and returned fire. 240's instincts are quite good here.

I understand what he's saying and I don't have a problem with someone carrying.  I just don't think someone like him should be carrying.  He is petrified of having to use his gun which means if such a necessity should arise he would immediately panic. It's fear not good judgement that prevents 240 from using his weapon. He's liable to get someone killed-most likely himself.  It's best for him and everyone else if he leaves his weapons in a safe at his home and looses the combination.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on January 01, 2015, 09:25:30 AM
I get it, but my point is that there are plenty of other events that are soooo much more likely to happen, probability wise, that people don't plan for.

Agreed, that doesn't necessarily mitigate a person's desire to remain under arms, though. In fact, we are irrational creatures when it comes to probabilistic reasoning. We don't fly, but happily take a car. Choosing to be armed is what Citizens can do in a free country.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on January 01, 2015, 09:29:26 AM
I understand what he's saying and I don't have a problem with someone carry.  I just don't think someone like him should be carrying.  He is petrified of having to use his gun which means if such a necessity should arise he would immediately panic. It's fear not good judgement that prevents 240 from using his weapon. He's liable to get someone killed-most likely himself.  It's best for him and everyone else if he leaves his weapons in a safe at his home and looses the combination.

I don't think he's petrified. I think that he has a healthy understanding of the psychological trauma that he would endure should he be forced into action. He's not saying he won't.

I go back to my classes that I used to teach. As part of the state's coursework that I taught to concealed carry applicants, part of it was use-of-force laws. Invariably, some student would ask something along the lines of "if you were going to a gunfight, what gun would you take?"

My answer is always the same, "if I knew I was going to a gunfight, I wouldn't get out of bed that day". The only gunfight you are sure to win is the one you avoid. THAT'S what 240 is attempting to impart.

Trust me, you don't want to live with the knowledge of killing another man, justified or not.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on January 01, 2015, 09:36:32 AM
I don't think he's petrified. I think that he has a healthy understanding of the psychological trauma that he would endure should he be forced into action. He's not saying he won't.

I go back to my classes that I used to teach. As part of the state's coursework that I taught to concealed carry applicants, part of it was use-of-force laws. Invariably, some student would ask something along the lines of "if you were going to a gunfight, what gun would you take?"

My answer is always the same, "if I knew I was going to a gunfight, I wouldn't get out of bed that day". The only gunfight you are sure to win is the one you avoid. THAT'S what 240 is attempting to impart.

Trust me, you don't want to live with the knowledge of killing another man, justified or not.

He's the kind of person who is approached by a bully, shits his pants and when the bully leaves he says something like "that bully is lucky I didn't punch him.  I was this close to kicking his ass"  We all knows he wasn't ever going to do a damn thing.  The only reason he says all that is to make himself feel better.

Now I'm not advocating people using their weapons at the drop of a hat and I'm sure as hell not claiming I have the stones to engage in a firefight. As I expressly stated in another post, I know I'm not John Wayne. I just think there is no point in someone like 240 carrying a weapon ever.

Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: LittleJ on January 01, 2015, 09:43:49 AM
Littlejenkem the narc.   Somebody call the RONBULANCE littlejenkem has sand in his vagina again.

It's going to be okay brother. I'm going to enroll you in a great rehab program. You don't have to fight these demons on your own. I'm going to show you the love your parents failed to show you.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on January 01, 2015, 09:45:20 AM
He's the kind of person who is approached by a bully, shits his pants and when the bully leaves he says something like "that bully is lucky I didn't punch him.  I was this close to kicking his ass"  We all knows he wasn't ever going to do a damn thing.  The only reason he says all that is to make himself feel better.

Now I'm not advocating people using their weapons at the drop of a hat and I'm sure as hell not claiming I have the stones to engage in a firefight. As I expressly stated in another post, I know I'm not John Wayne. I just think there is no point in someone like 240 carrying a weapon ever.

I guess we will just agree to disagree here. And I pray that neither has to find out whether we are right or not.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on January 01, 2015, 09:50:49 AM
It's going to be okay brother. I'm going to enroll you in a great rehab program. You don't have to fight these demons on your own. I'm going to show you the love your parents failed to show you.

Ronbulance dispatched!  We have a jenkem overdose resulting in a severe case of butthurt.  

I guess we will just agree to disagree here. And I pray that neither has to find out whether we are right or not.

I agree with what you and 240 say in principle.  I know you believe in what your saying.  I think 240 is hiding behind good judgement when he's really just scared.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Teutonic Knight on January 01, 2015, 12:11:34 PM
You are too weak to defend yourself against the thugs you fantasize of blasting away with your gun (because you can't fight). You are just a little pussy and that's all you will ever be. Keep your head in the sand, chicken (shit).

Moderators  ??? action time.

He threaten to kill another GB  ::)
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Bernie King on January 01, 2015, 01:24:12 PM
Moderators  ??? action time.

He threaten to kill another GB  ::)

Hey sucker, you can find me on Bondi beach anytime today.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: The Ugly on January 01, 2015, 01:49:49 PM
most of us are.  My #1 option in any confrontation would be "Get.  The.  Fuck.  Out.  Of.  There."

I sure don't want a fight nor a gun battle.  I'm only talking if I'm cornered and it's the last option.   I pray I never get in a gun fight, and by being a pussy and avoiding fights and backing down from getting punched and taking the long way at times and sometimes not stopping at a place - I *have* avoided a gun fight for 17 years of carrying a piece now.

And I'll keep right on being a wimp... if shady people are at that spot, I don't care if I've got glock in my hand, I keep on to the next gas station, even if I really really really have to pee lol.

It's not worth it.  All gun owners should ditch that "stand your ground" bullshit and instead, focus on being the BIGGER WIMP in a confrontation.  I always do.  I always back down.  Now, if you are pulling my keys, my child, my wifey, well, I have to prevent a forcible felony and will use force then.  But in 99% of situations, I'm apologizing and backing down from threats, even when it's a punk idiot I could beat senseless physically.   NOT WORTH IT.   I save face because I know the glock I have could knock this little bastard right out of his shoes - but i respect life and the law, and basic decency, enough to just back down.  Every time.

No trolling, Rob, but would you go to all the same confrontation avoidance trouble if you weren't carrying? Just seems like a huge pain in the ass.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: LittleJ on January 01, 2015, 02:02:17 PM
No trolling, Rob, but would you go to all the same confrontation avoidance trouble if you weren't carrying? Just seems like a huge pain in the ass.

Look who joined the party The Ugly aka Archer77 ;D
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: The Ugly on January 01, 2015, 02:03:41 PM
Look who joined the party The Ugly aka Archer77 ;D

Relax, 'dre.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on January 01, 2015, 03:14:25 PM
No trolling, Rob, but would you go to all the same confrontation avoidance trouble if you weren't carrying? Just seems like a huge pain in the ass.

I think i am MORE cautious because I have a gun with me.   If shit goes sideways and I punch, run,whatever, chances are everyone is going home alive that night.

If I ever get out of my car and willingly step INTO a situation where a fight/ gun battle/ etc is obviously about to happen - then I have to stand in court one day and explain why I was so fcking stupid to do so.   I have to look at the jury and say "umm, for realz tho, I had no idea stepping out into that group of people was a bad idea" and lie.  And people see thru liars.

I would MUCH rather look the jury in the eye and say "dudes, I did EVERYTHING i could go avoid a confrontation and shooting - I moved my car, I apologized, I took 14 steps backwards til I hit the wall, I didn't respond to his 3 shoves, I yelled for help, I begged the dude to step, I deflected 4 punched and THEN I had to sadly use my weapon."

That's a lot better than "I wasn't worried, but he came at me, so I stood my ground".   Dudes with that attitude make me sick.    They invite the fight.  A jury will see my ass was VERY much avoiding a shooting.  Cause like other getbiggers said, this shit isn't comic book, movie stuff.  Shootings are real-life with real ramifications.  People that carry have a HUGE burden to back down, avoid fights, apologize, and run if possible.   Their ego might be a little butthurt, but everyone goes home and they're not having nightmares of a shoot from a jail cell. 

Just walk away from that shit.  Run away from it!   If/when you have to look a jury in the eye, you will have honesty on your side because, by golly, you are NOT one of those trigger-happy a-holes out to play sheriff. 
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: The Ugly on January 01, 2015, 03:57:17 PM
I think i am MORE cautious because I have a gun with me.   If shit goes sideways and I punch, run,whatever, chances are everyone is going home alive that night.

If I ever get out of my car and willingly step INTO a situation where a fight/ gun battle/ etc is obviously about to happen - then I have to stand in court one day and explain why I was so fcking stupid to do so.   I have to look at the jury and say "umm, for realz tho, I had no idea stepping out into that group of people was a bad idea" and lie.  And people see thru liars.

I would MUCH rather look the jury in the eye and say "dudes, I did EVERYTHING i could go avoid a confrontation and shooting - I moved my car, I apologized, I took 14 steps backwards til I hit the wall, I didn't respond to his 3 shoves, I yelled for help, I begged the dude to step, I deflected 4 punched and THEN I had to sadly use my weapon."

That's a lot better than "I wasn't worried, but he came at me, so I stood my ground".   Dudes with that attitude make me sick.    They invite the fight.  A jury will see my ass was VERY much avoiding a shooting.  Cause like other getbiggers said, this shit isn't comic book, movie stuff.  Shootings are real-life with real ramifications.  People that carry have a HUGE burden to back down, avoid fights, apologize, and run if possible.   Their ego might be a little butthurt, but everyone goes home and they're not having nightmares of a shoot from a jail cell.  

Just walk away from that shit.  Run away from it!   If/when you have to look a jury in the eye, you will have honesty on your side because, by golly, you are NOT one of those trigger-happy a-holes out to play sheriff.  

That was sorta my point, though. Not having a concealed weapon frees me up to take way less shit than all that nonsense. Not knocking you at all, and I'll admit it's put me in a courthouse or two, but fuck all that.

I don't want trouble any more than any of you other mature, responsible gentlemen - way too old and tired for that bullshit. But there's a line. Circumstances considered, of course, rarely am I gonna beg, take shots, or simply give way because someone wants my shit or feels the need to punk me. No gun just makes it easier, it seems.

That said, I don't have kids to protect.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on January 01, 2015, 04:08:45 PM
A lot of posters ITT think that the choice is between "fight/no fight". Sometimes the choice is between "live or die" and at that point you'll be happy you left the house with a gun on you.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: The Ugly on January 01, 2015, 04:59:25 PM
A lot of posters ITT think that the choice is between "fight/no fight". Sometimes the choice is between "live or die" and at that point you'll be happy you left the house with a gun on you.

That's what I was trying to clear up with 240. If you have the gun, but the situation doesn't require it be used, can/will you still fight back physically? A guy slaps your lady, for instance, or spits in your face.

Not life-threatening, hopefully, but still requiring (in my opinion) an immediate physical response. Does the gun change your ability to react?
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Howard on January 01, 2015, 05:39:02 PM
Was just online looking at concealed carry holsters and there are lots of nice ones.

Few questions: 

What do you use?

What about boot holsters? (The ones that you strap to your calf; bodybuilding related)

What do you think of this one pictured here?


My wife and I both have a Ga license for concealed carry. It's a good law.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on January 01, 2015, 06:13:54 PM
Howard, you rock.  Props
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on January 01, 2015, 06:35:05 PM
Does the gun change your ability to react?

Absolutely. The gun turns any confrontation into a lethal force confrontation. If you are not being confronted with lethal force, your duty is to escape. If an unarmed man slaps your wife, and he isn't so large as to pose a lethal threat to the both of you, your duty is to escape.

As I said to many students, "the gun you carry will make you the most cowardly man in the world". It is ONLY there for lethal force escalations.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: The Ugly on January 01, 2015, 07:41:15 PM
Absolutely. The gun turns any confrontation into a lethal force confrontation. If you are not being confronted with lethal force, your duty is to escape. If an unarmed man slaps your wife, and he isn't so large as to pose a lethal threat to the both of you, your duty is to escape.

As I said to many students, "the gun you carry will make you the most cowardly man in the world". It is ONLY there for lethal force escalations.

Ok, I'm still misunderstanding, last try: I'm ignoring the gun in my holster for said confrontation. Done. Even then, you're saying, I still cannot react. Anything less than a lethal situation - even though I have no intention of reaching for, using, or even acknowledging the gun's existence - I'm forced to tuck tail?

Dude pushes me, slaps my chick, throws drink, spits - but no intention of killing - I suck it up and split, right. Gun on my hip means I can't throw a punch. Damn. Thank God I could never get a CCW.

Apologize, I'm slow as fuck, but this interests me.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on January 01, 2015, 07:41:29 PM
Absolutely. The gun turns any confrontation into a lethal force confrontation. If you are not being confronted with lethal force, your duty is to escape. If an unarmed man slaps your wife, and he isn't so large as to pose a lethal threat to the both of you, your duty is to escape.

As I said to many students, "the gun you carry will make you the most cowardly man in the world". It is ONLY there for lethal force escalations.

yeah, call the police.  we live in a world of cell phone cameras and you *will* ID him quickly and will be able to charge, prosecute, and sue his ass into oblivion.  

Obviously, you can get physical to stop the assault.  But "punishing" him is outdated.  Film him and own his car/house for it.  

Honestly, when you carry a gun, typically, you don't get fcked with.  You have the look and the smile and the confidence and swagger, and you just don't look like prey.  At all.  Very often, I see the stature and look in a person's face, and it tells me to study their clothing/profile, and often a gun shape is visible.   People that are armed move slower, more focused, calmer and often just don't look like prey.  

Interjecting yourself into a violent situation is another thing entirely.  
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on January 01, 2015, 07:47:13 PM
Dude pushes me, slaps my chick, throws drink, spits - but no intention of killing - I suck it up and split, right. Damn. Thank God I could never get a CCW.

As you get older, this VERY rarely happens.  You don't go to places where people are slapping women, spitting, throwing drinks.  If you're in the club, hey, anything goes, leave the gun at home cause you're walking into a zoo full of idiots lol.   

In any reasonable situation, there will be witnesses  - they are your BEST friend. If dude does all this, you have witnesses/camera, you call 911.  He's going to jail. 

I have a pretty common response when someone is chewing on fcking with me... "Fuck.  With.  Someone.  Else.   I ain't the motherfcking one".    Your voice makes it clear that should he try something, you WILL be going home with his wallet and MFing shoes.    Liiterally, if someone tries robbing me, they'll be easy to identify.  They'll be the one walking home with no pants, no wallet, no shoes.  Literally, I will own your car and you will be in jail and in the rare chance I cannot whip your ass, I do possess capacity to end you if/when things get violent. 

pretty much don't look like prey.  I'd wager the NRA, concealed carry getbiggers know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.  They have a gun and don't need it because people do NOT fck with them.  They avoid drama places, but they just look like the last dude in the room you'd want to mess with.  They don't need the gun because they have the attitude and look that having a gun gives them.   Make sense?
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: The Ugly on January 01, 2015, 07:52:47 PM
As you get older, this VERY rarely happens.  You don't go to places where people are slapping women, spitting, throwing drinks.  If you're in the club, hey, anything goes, leave the gun at home cause you're walking into a zoo full of idiots lol.   

In any reasonable situation, there will be witnesses  - they are your BEST friend. If dude does all this, you have witnesses/camera, you call 911.  He's going to jail. 

I have a pretty common response when someone is chewing on fcking with me... "Fuck.  With.  Someone.  Else.   I ain't the motherfcking one".    Your voice makes it clear that should he try something, you WILL be going home with his wallet and MFing shoes.    Liiterally, if someone tries robbing me, they'll be easy to identify.  They'll be the one walking home with no pants, no wallet, no shoes.  Literally, I will own your car and you will be in jail and in the rare chance I cannot whip your ass, I do possess capacity to end you if/when things get violent. 

pretty much don't look like prey.  I'd wager the NRA, concealed carry getbiggers know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.  They have a gun and don't need it because people do NOT fck with them.  They avoid drama places, but they just look like the last dude in the room you'd want to mess with.  They don't need the gun because they have the attitude and look that having a gun gives them.   Make sense?

Why do you want their shoes, guy?
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on January 01, 2015, 07:55:05 PM
Why do you want their shoes, guy?

I want the police to be able to identify them as the man that tried to rob me. 

I would politely ask for the shoes and maybe their pants.  Would make ID'ing these criminals much easier.  Also the shoes could contain DNA and possible blood residue on their bottom, from the last sheep that criminal probably stomped.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Las Vegas on January 01, 2015, 07:56:14 PM
Ok, I'm still misunderstanding, last try: I'm ignoring the gun in my holster for said confrontation. Done. Even then, you're saying, I still cannot react. Anything less than a lethal situation - even though I have no intention of reaching for, using, or even acknowledging the gun's existence - I'm forced to tuck tail?

Dude pushes me, slaps my chick, throws drink, spits - but no intention of killing - I suck it up and split, right. Gun on my hip means I can't throw a punch. Damn. Thank God I could never get a CCW.

Apologize, I'm slow as fuck, but this interests me.

What if you get knocked out or whatever and you lose the gun to someone else? Someone stealing your wallet finds and takes your gun too.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: The Ugly on January 01, 2015, 08:09:25 PM
What if you get knocked out or whatever and you lose the gun to someone else? Someone stealing your wallet finds and takes your gun too.

I had a paragraph about that but deleted it for redundancy. Think that's what AJ meant by all situations being potentially lethal when you're carrying.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Las Vegas on January 01, 2015, 08:15:25 PM
I had a paragraph about that but deleted it for redundancy. Think that's what AJ meant by all situations being potentially lethal when you're carrying.

It's what you need to think about when you want to start swinging on a mofo.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: The Ugly on January 01, 2015, 08:16:27 PM
It's what you need to think about when you want to start swinging on a mofo.

I don't swing anymore and never carried. Hypothetical, really.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Las Vegas on January 01, 2015, 08:17:01 PM
I don't swing anymore and never carried. Hypothetical, really.

Good.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: HTexan on January 01, 2015, 08:26:35 PM
My wife and I both have a Ga license for concealed carry. It's a good law.
I have my license too, but I haven't carried in 2-3 years.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: The Ugly on January 01, 2015, 08:43:38 PM
Just don't want that flappy-hander here strappin' up, that shit'd get ugly fast.

Wait, he's an Iceback, right? Nevermind. Dude can't even own a slingshot up there.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Howard on January 01, 2015, 09:34:55 PM
I have my license too, but I haven't carried in 2-3 years.

I like to have it when I travel but I'm no crazy red neck LOL :o
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on January 02, 2015, 03:24:44 AM
Ok, I'm still misunderstanding, last try: I'm ignoring the gun in my holster for said confrontation. Done. Even then, you're saying, I still cannot react. Anything less than a lethal situation - even though I have no intention of reaching for, using, or even acknowledging the gun's existence - I'm forced to tuck tail?

Dude pushes me, slaps my chick, throws drink, spits - but no intention of killing - I suck it up and split, right. Gun on my hip means I can't throw a punch. Damn. Thank God I could never get a CCW.

Apologize, I'm slow as fuck, but this interests me.

Doesn't matter. Here's a scenario: you're carrying, but a guy is being a real dick and you think, "I can kick his ass and I will never touch my gun". As soon as you get into it, though, you realize that the guy is better than you thought and you are about to get KTFO. What do you do? Pull your gun? That's illegal escalation to deadly force because you had the opportunity to escape, but allowed the fight to happen. Get KTFO and possibly lose your gun? Not good either. There's a felony there too.

Your only legal option is to avoid or de-escalate.

Now, if you are pearl-harbored and surprise attacked, you can (in some jurisdictions) "brandish" the weapon to get them to stop. However, the situation then becomes lethal, with all the laws attendant. You'd also best be prepared to use it or lose it.

Florida's SYG law is a notable exception as it has provisions for "peaceable movement" or something like that. It basically states that if someone is feloniously keeping you from moving forward in a public way, you can respond with deadly force. It was specific language added for those that didn't feel that the law abiding should be forced to retreat from a felony. To my knowledge, it hasn't been tested in court.

In general, American gun owners and the folks that choose to legally carry are the most sober and judicious citizens that our country has. To a man, they usually have more firearms training time than the average cop, and are certainly more level-headed.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Teutonic Knight on January 02, 2015, 03:39:44 AM
Hey sucker, you can find me on Bondi beach anytime today.

Dream on  ;D

Must be shit cold in yours pueblo  ;D
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: SamoanIrishman on January 02, 2015, 11:01:09 AM
I think i am MORE cautious because I have a gun with me.   If shit goes sideways and I punch, run,whatever, chances are everyone is going home alive that night.

If I ever get out of my car and willingly step INTO a situation where a fight/ gun battle/ etc is obviously about to happen - then I have to stand in court one day and explain why I was so fcking stupid to do so.   I have to look at the jury and say "umm, for realz tho, I had no idea stepping out into that group of people was a bad idea" and lie.  And people see thru liars.

I would MUCH rather look the jury in the eye and say "dudes, I did EVERYTHING i could go avoid a confrontation and shooting - I moved my car, I apologized, I took 14 steps backwards til I hit the wall, I didn't respond to his 3 shoves, I yelled for help, I begged the dude to step, I deflected 4 punched and THEN I had to sadly use my weapon."

That's a lot better than "I wasn't worried, but he came at me, so I stood my ground".   Dudes with that attitude make me sick.    They invite the fight.  A jury will see my ass was VERY much avoiding a shooting.  Cause like other getbiggers said, this shit isn't comic book, movie stuff.  Shootings are real-life with real ramifications.  People that carry have a HUGE burden to back down, avoid fights, apologize, and run if possible.   Their ego might be a little butthurt, but everyone goes home and they're not having nightmares of a shoot from a jail cell. 

Just walk away from that shit.  Run away from it!   If/when you have to look a jury in the eye, you will have honesty on your side because, by golly, you are NOT one of those trigger-happy a-holes out to play sheriff. 

Well said. Just because I carry a gun doesn't mean I'm going to play hero if I was in a place of business getting robbed ...especially if I have my family with me. My main concern is getting them to cover and keeping an eye on the guy until he leaves... plus you don't know who else in there might be with him and is blending in as a non threat.

Intent comes into play. If he just wants money and is in a hurry to leave, businesses are insured, let him get it and leave. Now if he start executing people and is making his way to where we are, I can at least step away from my family and direct his attention to me and put him down before he kills more.

Its all about the situation, weapon being used, number of bad guys, their intent, surroundings, if I'm alone or with my family or my buddies who also carry etc...

Most important is surroundings as you have to be aware of what is past your target. Ultimately you are responsible for where your bullet ends up and the last thing you want is to shoot a guy robbing you at knifepoint in a crowd and your bullet misses or over penetrates and hits the 6yr old behind him.

Lots of common sense and scenario training is critical in my opinion. For example if there is already a gun pointed at you, don't try and go for your gun. These former SEALS teach classes with real world scenarios... every state has a company that does this type of training.

Here is one of their vids. They are called First Person Defender


Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on January 02, 2015, 01:03:10 PM
i used to watch lenny mcgilll "move, shoot, live".   great video for tactics.  My bro used the exact movement when he was under attack by armed gunmen.  left forearm covers brain and heart.  right arm shoots.  Get smaller, move backwards against shooter's body.  It was over quickly but that move caused shooter to have to adjust his direct aim when landing, thus my brother could put a bullet in his belly first.   My bro actually fired something like 5 rounds - perfect horizontal stream, and jumped thru the door to shoot the other punk ass.   Luckily, punkkass #2 decided to turn tail and run.  Broke his own arm hitting the door so fast lol.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Bernie King on January 02, 2015, 01:44:08 PM
You see, the standard reference that most experts use regarding gun-fighting distance is the "FBI's stats" for police shootings.

When you look at the factors involved in this, you realize that police are often called to the scene of "a crime in progress" and are able to keep their distance and carefully approach an attacker with their weapon drawn.
But that's NOT how a real attack YOU will encounter takes place!

Civilian attacks mostly happen because of one of two events:
Escalated Arguments and Ambushes
And neither of these attacks typically happen in close range, right?

I mean, do you really think some meth-crazed street vermin is going to yell across the street, "Hey man! Give me your wallet!"

Nope. Not a chance!

They're going to be right up in your face where you can see their glossy eyes before you even know what's going on.

That puts you at only one or two arm-lengths away at most.

Now, if the standard rule is that an attacker can close the distance of 21 feet in just 1.5 seconds...

... how much time do you think you have to get to your gun if he's only 5-8 FEET away?

This is why all that range training where your happy paper target hangs gleefully 15 yards (40 ft.) down range is NOT going to do all that much for preparing you for a real attack.

Real gunfights happen less than 9 feet away!

That means that the vast majority of your firearms training should be based on "close combat shooting" tactics - NOT "target practice" (at least not if you want to survive).

So be honest...

... are you REALLY devoting most of your training time to the dynamics you can expect when an ambushing attacker is just an arm's length away from slicing you to ribbons?

My guess is probably not, right?

You're not alone... and in fact, even most "combat gurus" are training with unrealistic methods.

What you really need is a tactical gun-fighting "formula" specifically designed for the worst case scenario where you're attacked with no warning... no "distance"... and have to fight for your life.
And that is where I come into the picture. PM me for more details.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on January 03, 2015, 07:34:18 AM
You see, the standard reference that most experts use regarding gun-fighting distance is the "FBI's stats" for police shootings.

When you look at the factors involved in this, you realize that police are often called to the scene of "a crime in progress" and are able to keep their distance and carefully approach an attacker with their weapon drawn.
But that's NOT how a real attack YOU will encounter takes place!

Civilian attacks mostly happen because of one of two events:
Escalated Arguments and Ambushes
And neither of these attacks typically happen in close range, right?

I mean, do you really think some meth-crazed street vermin is going to yell across the street, "Hey man! Give me your wallet!"

Nope. Not a chance!

They're going to be right up in your face where you can see their glossy eyes before you even know what's going on.

That puts you at only one or two arm-lengths away at most.

Now, if the standard rule is that an attacker can close the distance of 21 feet in just 1.5 seconds...

... how much time do you think you have to get to your gun if he's only 5-8 FEET away?

This is why all that range training where your happy paper target hangs gleefully 15 yards (40 ft.) down range is NOT going to do all that much for preparing you for a real attack.

Real gunfights happen less than 9 feet away!

That means that the vast majority of your firearms training should be based on "close combat shooting" tactics - NOT "target practice" (at least not if you want to survive).

So be honest...

... are you REALLY devoting most of your training time to the dynamics you can expect when an ambushing attacker is just an arm's length away from slicing you to ribbons?

My guess is probably not, right?

You're not alone... and in fact, even most "combat gurus" are training with unrealistic methods.

What you really need is a tactical gun-fighting "formula" specifically designed for the worst case scenario where you're attacked with no warning... no "distance"... and have to fight for your life.
And that is where I come into the picture. PM me for more details.

Perhaps, "Bernie", you have not heard of The Way of Gun Kata...

Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: 240 is Back on January 03, 2015, 07:36:44 AM
I mean, do you really think some meth-crazed street vermin is going to yell across the street, "Hey man! Give me your wallet!"
Nope. Not a chance!
They're going to be right up in your face where you can see their glossy eyes before you even know what's going on.
That puts you at only one or two arm-lengths away at most.
Now, if the standard rule is that an attacker can close the distance of 21 feet in just 1.5 seconds...
... how much time do you think you have to get to your gun if he's only 5-8 FEET away?

Half of "combat gunfighting" is doing everything you can to study/see/judge everyone within 50 to 100 feet as potential threats.  When I pull into a gas station, I scan to see if there are 4 shady dudes standing around pump #1... then I'm sure to use pump #10 instead of pump #3.   Or if I'm in a parking lot and I see shady dude looking odd (no cart, no kids, just loitering) I am already on defensive watching his hips and hands. 
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: Archer77 on January 04, 2015, 06:11:06 AM
Half of "combat gunfighting" is doing everything you can to study/see/judge everyone within 50 to 100 feet as potential threats.  When I pull into a gas station, I scan to see if there are 4 shady dudes standing around pump #1... then I'm sure to use pump #10 instead of pump #3.   Or if I'm in a parking lot and I see shady dude looking odd (no cart, no kids, just loitering) I am already on defensive watching his hips and hands. 

You have no clue. You also sound extremely paranoid.  I can imagine the same thoughts going through zimmerpigs mind. You've watched to many movies.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: _aj_ on January 04, 2015, 06:28:55 AM
You have no clue. You also sound extremely paranoid.  I can imagine the same thoughts going through zimmerpigs mind. You've watched to many movies.

It's called "living in Florida!"

No shit, I was more paranoid than you could imagine when I lived down there. I worked in Miami and frequently had to stay late. I carried openly everyday at the office. It gets fucking tiring as hell, but when another story comes out about a tourist that got his face shot off for asking directions, you double down on paranoid.

I will admit that since moving to NH, my guard has been slowing falling and I occasionally catch myself walking down the street in a fog or texting on my phone; two things that I would NEVER do in FL. I comfort myself thinking that I could get back to "condition orange" quickly if necessary.
Title: Re: Concealed carry questions (aj)
Post by: HTexan on January 04, 2015, 09:05:30 AM
I like to have it when I travel but I'm no crazy red neck LOL :o
In Texas you can travel, and also drive to the range, without a license.