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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Irongrip400 on August 30, 2015, 06:44:41 PM
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http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34054057
I find myself falling in the line of the Italian fella, whilst I'd imagine SF1900 would be in the British gentlemans camp. Good article, take a few minutes and read.
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good article....there are plenty of atheists that are happy, have zero interest in science, have zero interest in religion, live normal lives and don't seek to challenge anyone....just being them is enough. Nice, polite, laidback folks that have no God.
Then you have Dawkinsian atheists....these are your four horsemen, pro debaters, celebrities, youtubers, vloggers, meme posters, online comment section posters, radio personalities, the Bill Mahers, the George Carlins, etc....most are just bile and venom for religion. The vast majority will go to their graves with atheism and will proclaim it until their dying breath.
There's a little middle ground group but not much from what I've experienced.
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In before SF1900 destroys MOS and Irongrip.
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In before SF1900 destroys MOS and Irongrip.
stop your little instigating ::)
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In before SF1900 destroys MOS and Irongrip.
Nice trolling attempt. :D :D
You've really been not on point today with your trolling. :D :D You must go back and rethink your strategy. :D :D
In before you post the "rolling eyes" icon. :D :D
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Nice trolling attempt. :D :D
You've really been not on point today with your trolling. :D :D You must go back and rethink your strategy. :D :D
In before you post the "rolling eyes" icon. :D :D
::)
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The only reason atheists are trying to convert the religious is because the religious have become so dangerous and offensive. Religious cultures have monopolised the modern world and made life difficult for the atheist, and at times very dangerous. It is no wonder the atheists are fighting back. Not to mention how intolerable it is for intelligent and reasonable people to live amongst the majority who are morons. The absurdity of it all for the intelligent person is so overwhelming that at times they cannot hold their tongue. The wiser one becomes the harder it is to tolerate fools, of which their is an abundance of in this world. Religion makes people stupid and is like a lightning rod for fools, reasoning and science make individuals smarter, but more intolerant of idiots.(aka religious folk)
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bodybuilding is my religion.
1 Corinthians 3:16-17 ESV
Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.
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The only reason atheists are trying to convert the religious is because the religious have become so dangerous and offensive. Religious cultures have monopolised the modern world and made life difficult for the atheist, and at times very dangerous. It is no wonder the atheists are fighting back. Not to mention how intolerable it is for intelligent and reasonable people to live amongst the majority who are morons. The absurdity of it all for the intelligent person is so overwhelming that at times they cannot hold their tongue. The wiser one becomes the harder it is to tolerate fools, of which their is an abundance of in this world. Religion makes people stupid and is like a lightning rod for fools, reasoning and science make individuals smarter, but more intolerant of idiots.(aka religious folk)
::)
Yes, yes. It's because you're so much smarter. That must be it. Oh brother.
I also enjoy how you proudly proclaim your intolerance for others. Religious folks ("morons") have been tolerant of you sanctimonious pricks for centuries.
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oh shit... it's going to start again..
(http://media.giphy.com/media/6sC30V5W2R8c/giphy.gif)
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::)
Yes, yes. It's because you're so much smarter. That must be it. Oh brother.
I also enjoy how you proudly proclaim your intolerance for others. Religious folks ("morons") have been tolerant of you sanctimonious pricks for centuries.
Our intolerance isn't something you simple minded folk would understand, unfortunately it comes with the territory of being a reasonable and intelligent human being. Since it makes perfect sense that a reasonable person would struggle to tolerate an unreasonable one (religious person). The intolerance a religious person feels is a fools one, it is based on the fact others don't believe the same fairy tales they do. Reasonable people's (atheists) intolerance is because the unreasonable (the religious) are allergic to reason and logic, so one is acting rationally and logically while the other refuses to do so. Quite frustrating really, but fools have always been beyond help, that's what makes them fools.
And yes, atheists are smarter than religious people. Just facts, oops sorry, I forgot, god botherers don't care much for facts.
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The article correctly assets that modern atheism has all the tenets and precepts of a religion: it has dogma, articles of faith, overbearing prosthelytizing, and a fervent belief that the divine does NOT exist, despite lacking any evidence to prove that.
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The article correctly assets that modern atheism has all the tenets and precepts of a religion: it has dogma, articles of faith, overbearing prosthelytizing, and a fervent belief that the divine does NOT exist, despite lacking any evidence to prove that.
Using your flawed logic, you can't prove Santa Claus doesn't exist, therefore he must exist and anyone who doesn't believe this must share the same tragic dogmatic and inflexible personality flaws that the Santa Claus believer does. This is exactly what I am talking about, this is why reasonable people struggle with such nonsense.
Perhaps you should investigate 'Russell's teapot', which states the burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others. Russell wrote that if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the grounds that they cannot prove him wrong. But then again 'nonsensical' is Religions middle name, intelligent and reasonable people expect nothing less, although even with this understanding and expectation, it remains frustrating nonetheless.
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why is it that people who think theyre smart and take names after philosophers or add "doctor" to their nickname etc end up being the dumbest on getbig
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Using your flawed logic, you can't prove Santa Claus doesn't exist, therefore he must exist and anyone who doesn't believe this must share the same tragic dogmatic and inflexible personality flaws that the Santa Claus believer does. This is exactly what I am talking about, this is why reasonable people struggle with such nonsense.
Perhaps you should investigate 'Russell's teapot', which states the burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others. Russell wrote that if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the grounds that they cannot prove him wrong. But then again 'nonsensical' is Religions middle name, intelligent and reasonable people expect nothing less, although even with this understanding and expectation, it remains frustrating nonetheless.
This is the "overbearing prosthelytizing" part...
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This is the "overbearing prosthelytizing" part...
Proselytism is the act of attempting to convert people to another religion or opinion. To begin atheism, is not and never has been a religion, no matter how much you want it to be. And two, you are incapable of being converted to a reasonable stance, if you were that would have happened long ago. As a reasonable person, I see it as a duty to counter any irrational and illogical statements with reason, truth and clear sighted perspective, not for the fools sake, but for the other reasonable souls who are wise enough and capable of still learning from other reasonable people.
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good article....there are plenty of atheists that are happy, have zero interest in science, have zero interest in religion, live normal lives and don't seek to challenge anyone....just being them is enough. Nice, polite, laidback folks that have no God.
Then you have Dawkinsian atheists....these are your four horsemen, pro debaters, celebrities, youtubers, vloggers, meme posters, online comment section posters, radio personalities, the Bill Mahers, the George Carlins, etc....most are just bile and venom for religion. The vast majority will go to their graves with atheism and will proclaim it until their dying breath.
There's a little middle ground group but not much from what I've experienced.
There is a very good reason for the backlash. It's a direct response to the religious right who constantly forced their beliefs on everyone else. Literally force their beliefs , try and change policy , stifle progress , prevent Americans from marrying because they're gay , Constant attacks on abortion. People are fed up with " bile " and " venom " bible thumpers spew and are pushing back. It's a reaction to the religious action.
Religion enjoyed centuries of dominating control over people and people are fed up. One of my favorite Christopher Hitchen's quotes
Question:
“My question to Christopher is, how you can justify wanting to take something away from people, that gives meaning to 95% of the American people, and replace it with something that gives meaning to just 5% of the American people?”
Response:
“Ha! Well, what an incredibly stupid question. First I’ve said repeatedly that this stuff cannot be taken away from people, it is their favourite toy and it will remain so, as Freud said, it will remain that way as long as we’re afraid of death. Which is I think likely to be quite a long time.
Second I hope I’ve made it clear that I’m perfectly happy for people to have these toys and to play with them at home, and hug them to themselves and share them with other people who come round and play with the toys. That’s, absolutely fine. They are not, to make me play with these toys. I will not play with the toys. Don’t bring the toys to my house. Don’t say my children must play with these toys. Don’t say my toys, might be a condom, here we go again, are not allowed by their toys. I’m not going to have any of that.
Enough with clerical and religious bullying and intimidation. Is that finally clear? Have I got that across? Thank you.”
A lot of Christians are like vegetarians , you just can't be happy with your decision , you now have to force it on everyone else and remind them how shitty they are for not agreeing with you.
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There is a very good reason for the backlash. It's a direct response to the religious right who constantly forced their beliefs on everyone else. Literally force their beliefs , try and change policy , stifle progress , prevent Americans from marrying because they're gay , Constant attacks on abortion. People are fed up with " bile " and " venom " bible thumpers spew and are pushing back. It's a reaction to the religious action.
Religion enjoyed centuries of dominating control over people and people are fed up. One of my favorite Christopher Hitchen's quotes
Question:
“My question to Christopher is, how you can justify wanting to take something away from people, that gives meaning to 95% of the American people, and replace it with something that gives meaning to just 5% of the American people?”
Response:
“Ha! Well, what an incredibly stupid question. First I’ve said repeatedly that this stuff cannot be taken away from people, it is their favourite toy and it will remain so, as Freud said, it will remain that way as long as we’re afraid of death. Which is I think likely to be quite a long time.
Second I hope I’ve made it clear that I’m perfectly happy for people to have these toys and to play with them at home, and hug them to themselves and share them with other people who come round and play with the toys. That’s, absolutely fine. They are not, to make me play with these toys. I will not play with the toys. Don’t bring the toys to my house. Don’t say my children must play with these toys. Don’t say my toys, might be a condom, here we go again, are not allowed by their toys. I’m not going to have any of that.
Enough with clerical and religious bullying and intimidation. Is that finally clear? Have I got that across? Thank you.”
A lot of Christians are like vegetarians , you just can't be happy with your decision , you now have to force it on everyone else and remind them how shitty they are for not agreeing with you.
BINGO ! We have a winner ladies and gentlemen. The world has lost a great thinker in Christopher Hitchens. You would never even know that atheists existed if religious people weren't forcing their nonsense down everybody's throats, seizing power at every opportunity, influencing public policy and negatively impacting on civilized society. It isn't good enough for them to be comforted by superstition and fairy tales and to pray quietly to themselves at night, NO! they have to go door to door and arse rape you with it and then throw a hissy fit when you resist being arse raped with a crucifix.
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http://www.globalonenessproject.org/library/interviews/quest-find-reality (http://www.globalonenessproject.org/library/interviews/quest-find-reality)
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http://www.globalonenessproject.org/library/interviews/quest-find-reality (http://www.globalonenessproject.org/library/interviews/quest-find-reality)
Atheists don't deny that modern science is essentially a quest to find ultimate reality, much like the ancient spiritual traditions. What they object to is the non-scientific basis that ancient traditions have used leading to falsehoods and outright lies and deception. Whereas science believes we can get nearer and nearer the truth and perhaps discover the ultimate truths, religious people throw it in the too hard basket and simply make shit up that happens to coincide with their deepest fantasies (immortality, heaven etc.). Just because science seeks deeper truths, doesn't make it a religion. Science cares about facts, Religions do not.
And Sraddhalu Ranade is just another Indian fraudster, blending science and religion to suit their indoctrination. Such people don't really have a choice, they are indoctrinated from a young age into religion and when they discover greater truths to prevent the psychic trauma and cognitive dissonance that would come from moving beyond the things taught to us as children, they choose to combine the two conflicting ideologies rather than move from one to the other. These poor people are doomed by either option, as both cause tremendous inner conflict. Just one more reason the religious indoctrination of children should be seen as serious child abuse.
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Christians are like vegetarians , you just can't be happy with your decision , you now have to force it on everyone else and remind them how shitty they are for not agreeing with you.
The problem with this statement is its utter lack of truth and its psycological projection from atheists. It's you that are constantly trying to force your godless atheistic views on everybody else and ridiculing those that don't agree. Look in a mirror, dipshits.
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The problem with this statement is its utter lack of truth and its psycological projection from atheists. It's you that are constantly trying to force your godless atheistic views on everybody else and ridiculing those that don't agree. Look in a mirror, dipshits.
You poor deluded fool, what you are describing is blowback from centuries of religious indoctrination and persecution that continues to this very day. You suffer from privilege blindness, as most people who find themselves in a majority do. NarcissisticDeity's post earlier summed this up quite succinctly.
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Science cares about facts, Religions do not.
Unless the "science" is about global warming ( ::)), and then you ignore actual data because this thing called "reality" doesn't comport to your fervent beliefs. Sounds like a religion to me.
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You poor deluded fool, what you are describing is blowback from centuries of religious indoctrination and persecution that continues to this very day. You suffer from privilege blindness, as most people who find themselves in a majority do.
Oh brother. You're really gonna drop that "privilege" shit on me here? Do you even fucking lift?
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Unless the "science" is about global warming ( ::)), and then you ignore actual data because this thing called "reality" doesn't comport to your fervent beliefs. Sounds like a religion to me.
Science isn't perfect, nor does it rarely reach 100% consensus, unlike religion which claims divine wisdom. Science by it's very nature evolves into an ever greater understanding of the world around us, with a built in understanding that allows it to accept when it has been wrong. Religion just goes from one ridiculous idea to the next, each as absurd as the one before it, only making sense to the fools, the unreasonable and the irrational.
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Religion Science just goes from one ridiculous idea to the next, each as absurd as the one before it, only making sense to the fools, the unreasonable and the irrational.
Fixed it for you.
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Fixed it for you.
Well, you didn't fix it for me, but at least it now makes sense to morons.
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Well, you didn't fix it for me, but at least it know makes sense to morons.
:D
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Our intolerance isn't something you simple minded folk would understand, unfortunately it comes with the territory of being a reasonable and intelligent human being. Since it makes perfect sense that a reasonable person would struggle to tolerate an unreasonable one (religious person). The intolerance a religious person feels is a fools one, it is based on the fact others don't believe the same fairy tales they do. Reasonable people's (atheists) intolerance is because the unreasonable (the religious) are allergic to reason and logic, so one is acting rationally and logically while the other refuses to do so. Quite frustrating really, but fools have always been beyond help, that's what makes them fools.
And yes, atheists are smarter than religious people. Just facts, oops sorry, I forgot, god botherers don't care much for facts.
This post is a typical and now epic cliche in modern, Dawkinsian atheistic thought. It's grounded in the "bile and venom" I mentioned and is often instantly demonstrated when noted (which I find comical). Most atheists get behind this type of generalized rhetoric immediately and completely...."science flew man to the moon, religion flew planes into buildings!" AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!! ("Dance wabbit...dance!!!".....cliff diving lemmings) Ironically, it demonstrates almost everything about today's atheist and expresses nothing at the same time. Bravo enlightened, free thinkers.....bravo.
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The problem with this statement is its utter lack of truth and its psycological projection from atheists. It's you that are constantly trying to force your godless atheistic views on everybody else and ridiculing those that don't agree. Look in a mirror, dipshits.
Do you realize how religion was literally FORCED on people all over this globe? for thousands of years. Convert or else , only until very recently have non-believers been allowed to openly declare they're Atheism and do it without fear of reprisals such as DEATH
Keep your toy-God , no one wants to take him from you. The moment you start to try and control other people's lives if the moment you will be put in your place.
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Science isn't perfect, nor does it rarely reach 100% consensus, unlike religion which claims divine wisdom. Science by it's very nature evolves into an ever greater understanding of the world around us, with a built in understanding that allows it to accept when it has been wrong. Religion just goes from one ridiculous idea to the next, each as absurd as the one before it, only making sense to the fools, the unreasonable and the irrational.
how can one even speak on behalf of science as to what science is. Does your scientific knowledge excel mr shraddalu? He is more a scientist than you. Your a bitter jaded man with a closed mind, there's nothing scientific about that.
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This post is a typical and now epic cliche in modern, Dawkinsian atheistic thought. It's grounded in the "bile and venom" I mentioned and is often instantly demonstrated when noted (which I find comical). Most atheists get behind this type of generalized rhetoric immediately and completely...."science flew man to the moon, religion flew planes into buildings!" AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!! Ironically, it demonstrates almost everything about today's atheist and expresses nothing at the same time. Bravo enlightened, free thinkers.....bravo.
Bile & Venom? The church , religion and God have cornered the market on that. I guess we have a long way to go to catch up.
People are enjoying the freedom to criticize religion without fear of death or torture , you guys had a long reign of silencing your critics , your party is over.
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Bile & Venom? The church , religion and God have cornered the market on that. I guess we have a long way to go to catch up.
People are enjoying the freedom to criticize religion without fear of death or torture , you guys had a long reign of silencing your critics , your party is over.
The fear isn't over for all atheists, many places in the middle east you can still be murdered for being a rational, intelligent atheist. The West just choose more subtle methods, like ostracism, discrimination and withholding privilege etc..
Onc can't help but laugh at religious peoples claims against atheists as full of bile and hostility, if ever there was a case of projection, this is it. The hypocrisy of religious people never fails to astound me.
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how can one even speak on behalf of science as to what science is. Does your scientific knowledge excel mr shraddalu? He is more a scientist than you. Your a bitter jaded man with a closed mind, there's nothing scientific about that.
Oh No, you have latched onto another guru haven't you. Poor Big Ro, stick to picking up heavy things would you.
Is there any fraud out there you don't latch onto?
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http://www.globalonenessproject.org/library/interviews/quest-find-reality (http://www.globalonenessproject.org/library/interviews/quest-find-reality)
This guy is a moron, he is a self claimed scientists and scholar, in what? lol.
what PHD does he hold? where is his research?
He is a fraud.
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This guy is a moron, he is a self claimed scientists and scholar, in what? lol.
what PHD does he hold? where is his research?
He is a fraud.
The thing is, any reasonable person can ascertain that he is a fraud from hearing him speak his woo woo. He is the second coming of Deepak Chopra.
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Oh No, you have latched onto another guru haven't you. Poor Big Ro, stick to picking up heavy things would you.
Is there any fraud out there you don't latch onto?
Fucking religious people man, this asshole is claiming to be a scholar and scientist, not once did he go to a lab and work hours on end, not once did he pull and all nighter compiling the raw data into meaningful figures. He didn't spend the 10 plus years of hard work and dedication it takes to be a scientist (phd level), it's insulting and more bullshit from people who can't keep up.
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The thing is, any reasonable person can ascertain that he is a fraud from hearing him speak his woo woo. He is the second coming of Deepak Chopra.
I have never watched a second of this idiot speak. He has several fraudulent claims levelled against him also.
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Big Ro, I suggest you watch the following film to come face to face with your true self (there are many gullible naive morons like you in this film you will definitely identify with)
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Bile & Venom? The church , religion and God have cornered the market on that. I guess we have a long way to go to catch up.
People are enjoying the freedom to criticize religion without fear of death or torture , you guys had a long reign of silencing your critics , your party is over.
This is pretty much it in a nutshell.
MOS is never going to understand this point of view, ND.
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Over turning Roe V Wade and the issue of same sex marriage is not a religious but rather a legal and societal issue.
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Big Ro, I suggest you watch the following film to come face to face with your true self (there are many gullible naive morons like you in this film you will definitely identify with)
I enjoyed this film actually. I did not conclude however that ALL spiritual teachers are frauds.
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good article....there are plenty of atheists that are happy, have zero interest in science, have zero interest in religion, live normal lives and don't seek to challenge anyone....just being them is enough. Nice, polite, laidback folks that have no God.
Then you have Dawkinsian atheists....these are your four horsemen, pro debaters, celebrities, youtubers, vloggers, meme posters, online comment section posters, radio personalities, the Bill Mahers, the George Carlins, etc....most are just bile and venom for religion. The vast majority will go to their graves with atheism and will proclaim it until their dying breath.
There's a little middle ground group but not much from what I've experienced.
Please define a normal life? I would assume believing in a mythical being to be abnormal.
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Please define a normal life? I would assume believing in a mythical being to be abnormal.
the source of the universe is a myth, you deny there is a source from which all has emerged?
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The fear isn't over for all atheists, many places in the middle east you can still be murdered for being a rational, intelligent atheist. The West just choose more subtle methods, like ostracism, discrimination and withholding privilege etc..
Onc can't help but laugh at religious peoples claims against atheists as full of bile and hostility, if ever there was a case of projection, this is it. The hypocrisy of religious people never fails to astound me.
Haha! What fucking trolling! As if ISIS is persecuting atheists! Retard, they are murdering Christians by the thousands! But that's probably cool with you. Less "morons" to browbeat into your blighted view of the world.
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Haha! What fucking trolling! As if ISIS is persecuting atheists! Retard, they are murdering Christians by the thousands! But that's probably cool with you. Less "morons" to browbeat into your blighted view of the world.
To be clear ISIS is killing people of all religion, muslims, Christians etc... They are a bunch of psychopaths.
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To be clear ISIS is killing people of all religion, muslims, Christians etc... They are a bunch of psychopaths.
Yes, killing all religions. But the prevailing thesis is that all religion persecutes athletes, whish is complete bullshit.
By all means, go back 1000 years to "prove" your thesis.
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Haha! What fucking trolling! As if ISIS is persecuting atheists! Retard, they are murdering Christians by the thousands! But that's probably cool with you. Less "morons" to browbeat into your blighted view of the world.
I never said anything about ISIS, but reading comprehension was never your strong suit.
Third Atheist Blogger Hacked to Death in Bangladesh
DHAKA, Bangladesh—Machete-wielding assailants hacked to death a self-professed atheist blogger, the third such attack in four months
Full story here.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/third-atheist-blogger-hacked-to-death-in-bangladesh-1431439393 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/third-atheist-blogger-hacked-to-death-in-bangladesh-1431439393)
A Fourth Atheist Blogger Has Been Hacked to Death in Bangladesh
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/08/07/a-fourth-atheist-blogger-has-been-hacked-to-death-in-bangladesh/ (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/08/07/a-fourth-atheist-blogger-has-been-hacked-to-death-in-bangladesh/)
Where Atheism Can Get You Killed
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/ananta-bijoy-das-bangladesh-atheist-murder-118223 (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/ananta-bijoy-das-bangladesh-atheist-murder-118223)
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AJ, seriously, ISIS hates atheists probably more than they hate Christians. Don't be so foolish.
Atheists are just more in the "closet" in the middle east. If you told an ISIS member you did not believe in God, do you really think they would say, "Okay, we love atheists. Go along your merry way." ::) I assume either 1) atheists in the Middle East are keeping quiet about not believing in a God or 2) there is just a lot less atheism in the middle east when compared to America, Australia, and the UK.
They keep quiet because in some Islamic countries, atheists face discrimination and severe penalties such as the withdrawal of legal status or, in the case of apostasy, capital punishment.
Saudi Arabia
Atheism is prohibited in Saudi Arabia and can come with a death penalty if practiced.
In March 2014, the Saudi interior ministry issued a royal decree branding all atheists as terrorists, which defines terrorism as "calling for atheist thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based"
As for the West, A University of British Columbia study conducted in the United States found that believers distrust atheists as much as they distrust rapists. The study also showed that atheists are unfairly discriminated against and as a result have lower employment prospects (because they are atheists)
Brazil
A 2009 survey showed that atheists are the most hated demographic group in Brazil, among several other minorities polled, being almost on par with drug addicts. According to the research, 17% of the interviewees stated they feel either hate or repulsion for atheists, while 25% feel antipathy and 29% are indifferent.
These a just a couple of examples, for a more detailed explanation of the discrimination atheists still face across the globe, click this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists#Western_countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists#Western_countries)
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Over turning Roe V Wade and the issue of same sex marriage is not a religious but rather a legal and societal issue.
And where is the opposition to these coming from? The religious right and why? Because a Bronze-age myth told them it's wrong. Stop being disingenuous.
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Oh brother. You're really gonna drop that "privilege" shit on me here? Do you even fucking lift?
Pretty much disagree with every point you've made here, but damn you're good.
Ha!
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And where is the opposition to these coming from? The religious right and why? Because a Bronze-age myth told them it's wrong. Stop being disingenuous.
Murder is a "bronze-age myth?"
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Religious beliefs have been bastardized to death to give people an excuse to hate and kill each other.
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Murder is a "bronze-age myth?"
No but they're letting that bronze-age myth do the thinking for them. I don't agree with abortion , I have three children , only one was planned. I never even suggested an abortion it never entered my mind. I personally against abortion but who the fuck are you or anyone else to say who can and can't have one? Stem cells are " babies " we must opposed stem cell research ::) A girl gets raped she must have the baby ::) Gay marriage is wrong and abomination says a Bronze-age myth so we must prevent this attack on family on marriage ::)
It's the control of other people that I have a problem with. I tend to learn toward Egalitarianism. You want to believe in Father figures in the sky talking to you , knock yourself out , when you start to try and implement policies because your sky-daddy said so and decide how the rest of us live , fuck off.
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I hope that isn't an invitation for me to open a very large can of whup-ass on abortion, because I will rain science down on your nihilistic asses until you beg your Gaia for the sweet release of death.
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I hope that isn't an invitation for me to open a very large can of whup-ass on abortion, because I will rain science down on your nihilistic asses until you beg your Gaia for the sweet release of death.
They're just doing the Lord's work
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Pretty much disagree with every point you've made here, but damn you're good.
Ha!
He is trolling so hard I cannot get in here to troll also.
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He is trolling so hard I cannot get in here to troll also.
It's a party!
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It's a party!
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Please define a normal life? I would assume believing in a mythical being to be abnormal.
going to work, paying bills, watching a basketball game, taking kids to band practice, buying a house, dating/getting married, family get togethers, going to the park, going to the beach, having babies....normal, everyday stuff and that's enough for them.
yes, believing in a mythical being is definitely abnormal.
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going to work, paying bills, watching a basketball game, taking kids to band practice, buying a house, dating/getting married, family get togethers, going to the park, going to the beach....normal, everyday stuff
I am not too sure I would constitute getting married as in more "normal" than staying single.
There is nothing abnormal about being single.
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I am not too sure I would constitute getting married as in more "normal" than staying single.
There is nothing abnormal about being single.
Don't nitpick the list....it isn't comprehensive.....it's why I included just dating for the folks that choose the single life. Nothing wrong with being single....absolutely normal.
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The only reason atheists are trying to convert the religious is because the religious have become so dangerous and offensive. Religious cultures have monopolised the modern world and made life difficult for the atheist, and at times very dangerous. It is no wonder the atheists are fighting back. Not to mention how intolerable it is for intelligent and reasonable people to live amongst the majority who are morons. The absurdity of it all for the intelligent person is so overwhelming that at times they cannot hold their tongue. The wiser one becomes the harder it is to tolerate fools, of which their is an abundance of in this world. Religion makes people stupid and is like a lightning rod for fools, reasoning and science make individuals smarter, but more intolerant of idiots.(aka religious folk)
Sometimes it's as simple as seeing a "Share this picture of money and god will bless you within 24 hrs" from one of your FB friends to remind you just how stupid it can get.
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Bile & Venom? The church , religion and God have cornered the market on that. I guess we have a long way to go to catch up.
People are enjoying the freedom to criticize religion without fear of death or torture , you guys had a long reign of silencing your critics , your party is over.
Please, tell me about this party.
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This is pretty much it in a nutshell.
MOS is never going to understand this point of view, ND.
Oh I understand how every group and race plays the role of "victim"......every group and race prints their own cards.
I just like to review what actually occurred in history and discuss that. Generalizations do little for me.....context is what helps give informed perspective.
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Please, tell me about this party.
Location: Hell
Time: Does not matter. Its for eternity.
What to bring: Chips or soda.
Dress attire: T-shirt and shorts.
(http://e08595.medialib.glogster.com/media/a1/a1d08597e9b1de248235074f472cfc1ceffc75cac6c19530670ab6b998501555/hell.jpg)
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Oh I understand how every group and race plays the role of "victim"......every group and race prints their own cards.
I just like to review what actually occurred in history and discuss that. Generalizations do little for me.....context is what helps give informed perspective.
Religious people are just as good as playing the "victim" card these days. Back in the day they did not have to, because they "ruled" over everything. Their word was authority. Not so much any more. Now they are starting to get a feel for what its like to be criticized. They do not like this. Thus, as stated before, they play the victim card like everyone else.
Hope this helps.
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Religious beliefs have been bastardized to death to give people an excuse to hate and kill each other.
Despite being another generalization it's actually one of the first correct posts in this thread.
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Location: Hell
Time: Does not matter. Its for eternity.
What to bring: Chips or soda.
Dress attire: T-shirt and shorts.
(http://e08595.medialib.glogster.com/media/a1/a1d08597e9b1de248235074f472cfc1ceffc75cac6c19530670ab6b998501555/hell.jpg)
Do you have any facts from this millennium? Or will all you arguments be pulled from the "Ancient Grievances" parchment?
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Do you have any facts from this millennium? Or will all you arguments be pulled from the "Ancient Grievances" parchment?
I was just inviting MOS to the party where all of us nonbelievers will go. :D :D It was an open invite to MOS, just in case he changes his mind.
ps - obviously, my post was a joke. Calm down, Mr. Bible Boy. :D :D
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Religious people are just as good as playing the "victim" card these days. Back in the day they did not have to, because they "ruled" over everything. Their word was authority. Not so much any more. Now they are starting to get a feel for what its like to be criticized. They do not like this. Thus, as stated before, they play the victim card like everyone else.
Hope this helps.
My post included theists.
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I was just inviting MOS to the party where all of us nonbelievers will go. :D :D It was an open invite to MOS, just in case he changes his mind.
ps - obviously, my post was a joke. Calm down, Mr. Bible Boy. :D :D
I don't want you or anyone separated from God. I get you're making a joke, but I really don't want any of you to experience the reality of hell.
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I don't want you or anyone separated from God. I get you're making a joke, but I really don't want any of you to experience the reality of hell.
Well, I do not believe a Hell exists, so we are all good. :) :)
But thanks for caring. :) :)
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I don't want you or anyone separated from God. I get you're making a joke, but I really don't want any of you to experience the reality of hell.
It's MY option to be separated from " God " if I so choose. Free will right? Oh NO it's not " free will " It's believe in me or burn forever. ::) That's an amoral teaching and anyone who adheres to it is amoral. It's disgusting & repugnant.
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im, not a, sorry.
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It's MY option to be separated from " God " if I so choose. Free will right? Oh NO it's not " free will " It's believe in me or burn forever. ::) That's an amoral teaching and anyone who adheres to it is amoral. It's disgusting & repugnant.
of course it is. Would you ever say to your daughter obey me or you will burn forever, it's her choice of course. She just has to choose in the manner which pleases him, otherwise, eternal torture.
Eternal anything as a punishment for finite acts is completely amoral.
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It's MY option to be separated from " God " if I so choose. Free will right? Oh NO it's not " free will " It's believe in me or burn forever. ::) That's an amoral teaching and anyone who adheres to it is amoral. It's disgusting & repugnant.
Demons believe in God. Many, many, many evil people believe in God.
You're conveniently leaving out your choice to defy God completely....to break his law and corrupt his creation. You're removing all accountability for your actions, removing your participation and responsibility from the situation and hastily generalizing "believe in me or burn forever". You put the onus on God and remove yourself. You've left out the impact of your choices....your sin....your offenses against God.
If you're going to enter the Christian worldview then you need to acknowledge the entirety of it, not pick those pieces that form your argument and chuck the rest.
You've also conveniently left out the fact that despite your desire to lash out against God that he's allowed you to exist in this world and enjoy all it has to offer. You have free reign to do whatever you please in this life and call God "disgusting and repugnant" all day long if you desire. Still, if you're entering the Christian worldview then make sure you include some key facets like God's law, your defiance of that and the fact you spit in his face by doing so despite all the goodness provided to you in this life.
When you exit this life you enter God's eternity and are subject to his terms and will then face his divine justice as a result of your actions. Yet, all he wants is fellowship with you both now and forever and to continue to provide for you and allow you to delight in him and his divine qualities. He's even given his son Jesus Christ to pay for all your mistakes and make good on all your sin and has given you the opportunity for righteousness and life and mercy and grace and love and peace. You ignore all of that and casually redefine it as "believe or burn".
I humbly ask you to rethink your position and consider every facet. Don't simply cobble together facets of scripture for the sake of a "damning post" that isn't correct.
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of course it is. Would you ever say to your daughter obey me or you will burn forever, it's her choice of course. She just has to choose in the manner which pleases him, otherwise, eternal torture.
Eternal anything as a punishment for finite acts is completely amoral.
Who is your offense against?
If you commit an offense against me you may or may not spend time in jail.
If you commit an offense against a police officer you'll definitely spend some time in a jail.
If you commit an offense against the President of the US you'll probably spend your life in jail or most of it in jail.
If you commit an offense against a dictator you'll probably lose your life.
If you commit an offense against the timeless, infinite God and defy his timelines, infinite law you'll pay a timeless, infinite price.
The penalty paid as you climb the ladder of offenses increases the punishment. You break the ultimate law and you pay the ultimate price.
Fortunately we have Jesus Christ who paid the price for all our offenses against God. We can turn to Christ, be made righteous and seek him for the remainder of our days being lead down a path that seeks to sin no more.
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Demons believe in God. Many, many, many evil people believe in God.
You're conveniently leaving out your choice to defy God completely....to break his law and corrupt his creation. You're removing all accountability for your actions, removing your participation and responsibility from the situation and hastily generalizing "believe in me or burn forever". You put the onus on God and remove yourself. You've left out the impact of your choices....your sin....your offenses against God.
If you're going to enter the Christian worldview then you need to acknowledge the entirety of it, not pick those pieces that form your argument and chuck the rest.
You've also conveniently left out the fact that despite your desire to lash out against God that he's allowed you to exist in this world and enjoy all it has to offer. You have free reign to do whatever you please in this life and call God "disgusting and repugnant" all day long if you desire. Still, if you're entering the Christian worldview then make sure you include some key facets like God's law, your defiance of that and the fact you spit in his face by doing so despite all the goodness provided to you in this life.
When you exit this life you enter God's eternity and are subject to his terms. Yet all he wants is fellowship with you both now and forever and to continue to provide for you and allow you to delight in him and his divine qualities. He's even given his son Jesus Christ to pay for all your mistakes and make good on all your sin and has given you the opportunity for righteousness and life and mercy and grace and love and peace. You ignore all of that and casually redefine it as "believe or burn".
I humbly ask you to rethink your position and consider every facet. Don't simply cobble together facets of scripture for the sake of a "damning post" that isn't correct.
Demons believe in God. Many, many, many evil people believe in God.
And? ???
You're conveniently leaving out your choice to defy God completely....to break his law and corrupt his creation. You're removing all accountability for your actions, removing your participation and responsibility from the situation and hastily generalizing "believe in me or burn forever". You put the onus on God and remove yourself. You've left out the impact of your choices....your sin....your offenses against God.
There is NO choice. The excuse God gave you free will is a LIE plain & simple. It's either believe or burn forever that's NOT a choice there is nothing free about exercising my will. God isn't saying " Hey if you want to believe in me cool and if not that's cool too " He's saying believe in me or I will fucking burn you forever and ever. That's an amoral proposition.
And if I have free will to decide to believe in God why does it come with such a heavy consequence? That's NOT an exercise of free will. It's do as I say or else. Let's not pretend I have a choice in the matter. Your God is amoral and I would rather burn in hell then worship him and his amoral teachings.
If you're going to enter the Christian worldview then you need to acknowledge the entirety of it, not pick those pieces that form your argument and chuck the rest.
I was brainwashed into the Christian wold view by my Mother. I decided the story is amoral and the existence of God described in the bible is a laughable myth. And it's ironic a Christian talking about cherry picking lol
When you exit this life you enter God's eternity and are subject to his terms. Yet all he wants is fellowship with you both now and forever and to continue to provide for you and allow you to delight in him and his divine qualities. He's even given his son Jesus Christ to pay for all your mistakes and make good on all your sin and has given you the opportunity for righteousness and life and mercy and grace and love and peace. You ignore all of that and casually redefine it as "believe or burn".
I don't believe in vicarious redemption that's amoral as well. I don't want to join God in the afterlife and if I'm punished by eternal damnation then that proves he wasn't worthy to be followed and praised.
I humbly ask you to rethink your position and consider every facet. Don't simply cobble together facets of scripture for the sake of a "damning post" that isn't correct
My position is the best one that I came to on my own after taking everything into consideration. You or God won't persuade me otherwise , when I die I have NO fear of Hell or Heaven. I treat people how I want to be treated and have lived a more moral life than 90% of the believers I know.
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And? ???
There is NO choice. The excuse God gave you free will is a LIE plain & simple. It's either believe or burn forever that's NOT a choice there is nothing free about exercising my will. God isn't saying " Hey if you want to believe in me cool and if not that's cool too " He's saying believe in me or I will fucking burn you forever and ever. That's an amoral proposition.
And if I have free will to decide to believe in God why does it come with such a heavy consequence? That's NOT an exercise of free will. It's do as I say or else. Let's not pretend I have a choice in the matter. Your God is amoral and I would rather burn in hell then worship him and his amoral teachings.
I was brainwashed into the Christian wold view by my Mother. I decided the story is amoral and the existence of God described in the bible is a laughable myth. And it's ironic a Christian talking about cherry picking lol
I don't believe in vicarious redemption that's amoral as well. I don't want to join God in the afterlife and if I'm punished by eternal damnation then that proves he wasn't worthy to be followed and praised.
My position is the best one that I came to on my own after taking everything into consideration. You or God won't persuade me otherwise , when I die I have NO fear of Hell or Heaven. I treat people how I want to be treated and have lived a more moral life than 90% of the believers I know.
I don't know how a reasonable adult can read the concept above about the Christian god and still believe, or if they believe.. want to hang around with him for eternity
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Who is your offense against?
If you commit an offense against me you may or may not spend time in jail.
If you commit an offense against a police officer you'll definitely spend some time in a jail.
If you commit an offense against the President of the US you'll probably spend your life in jail or most of it in jail.
If you commit an offense against a dictator you'll probably lose your life.
If you commit an offense against the timeless, infinite God and defy his timelines, infinite law you'll pay a timeless, infinite price.
The penalty paid as you climb the ladder of offenses increases the punishment. You break the ultimate law and you pay the ultimate price.
Fortunately we have Jesus Christ who paid the price for all our offenses against God. We can turn to Christ, be made righteous and seek him for the remainder of our days being lead down a path that seeks to sin no more.
Ok, in each of your examples I can verify the person I offended, you are using real world examples. You cannot use real world concrete examples and then jump into the supernatural as if it's the same thing. So murder I go to jail for life, wearing shirts of two different fabrics, eternal damnation.
I bet hell is full of people with down syndrome. what you are saying makes no sense. A eternal punishment for finite offences is absurd. If anyone should be in hell is god, he drowned the whole world, animals, insects, plants, everything.......
God appears to be a politician.
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God created the world with the ability to see the future. Placed a Tree in a garden that had knowledge of good and evil and told Adam and Eve not to eat it. They eat it much to his surprise and we are damned for eternity. Then Adam and Eve procreate to populate the earth. God is unhappy with how the inhabitants are acting and floods the earth killing all but 8 and 2 of all the animals of the world except the unicorns who were busy playing. Again the earth is repopulated but again we disappoint god. He then sends himself down in the form of Jesus "his son" but it's really him.. who acts like a sacrificial animal and is killed to pay the debt we owe for being born, because Adam ate the fruit. However if we don't accept this free gift.. we have to spend an eternity in hell. But he loves us... and sometimes, he answers your prayers if he wants to.....
Yeah.. that's something I can sink my teeth into
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God created the world with the ability to see the future. Placed a Tree in a garden that had knowledge of good and evil and told Adam and Eve not to eat it. They eat it much to his surprise and we are damned for eternity. Then Adam and Eve procreate to populate the earth. God is unhappy with how the inhabitants are acting and floods the earth killing all but 8 and 2 of all the animals of the world except the unicorns who were busy playing. Again the earth is repopulated but again we disappoint god. He then sends himself down in the form of Jesus "his son" but it's really him.. who acts like a sacrificial animal and is killed to pay the debt we owe for being born, because Adam ate the fruit. However if we don't accept this free gift.. we have to spend an eternity in hell. But he loves us... and sometimes, he answers your prayers if he wants to.....
Yeah.. that's something I can sink my teeth into
it makes perfect sense!
what about the 100 thousand years where people lived without knowledge of adam and eve! Like in China.
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These threads are always so black and white with the 2 conventional view points debating.
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These threads are always so black and white with the 2 conventional view points debating.
Sure, but your grayish take is equally condemned by scripture. Rules is rules.
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Can you explain physics to a newborn and have it understand it all? What about gene splicing? What about the weather?
If God exists He is so far removed from us that it might not even be fair to compare us as newborns to Him (as I have just done above).
How then would a rational being explain such things as creation and the like to a relative retard? Vis a vie metaphorically. It makes sense to me but then I am a rational being myself.
When I choose to be. The aforementioned supposition is how I look at creation and the like. Me. Not any here, just me.
I cannot fault the life of the Christ nor would I want to because it is worthy of admiration and imitation, if you will. And only if you choose to.
Men such as Joseph Smith or that other stalwart swine Mohammed are without merit in any sense of the word. So then, if you choose to not follow any man perhaps you might wish to follow the finest example of what it means to be a good man. In the truest meaning of the word, "good". Jesus of Nazareth.
I know many good people that are Atheists who exemplify Christ like mannerisms far more than do many so called followers of the Christ. That they choose not to believe in the Christ is their choice, that they behave in a manner that would be pleasing to Him is their honor.
If any here have issue with my words I have no problem with that, but unless you wish to make yourself an idiot, kindly do so in a manner befitting that of my late friend Reeves. If not, FTN.
If you have no idea about what I am saying, I cannot help you save to suggest you look it up here. The man was superb in so many ways, not the least of which was disagreeing with my faith with class. Something sorely missing from more than a few here. Not all, mind you and those I am referring to as having that element of class should know who they are. Good people.
To those that think themselves "clever" in their childish attempts at dissecting the life of Jesus of Nazareth as though they were their tables "lead" in 9th grade biology and their dead cat were named "Jesus", I say this - I will not force you to wear the same shoes as I do nor any shoe for that matter. In like fashion don't try to feed me your pedestrian offal.
Anyone can change, it's change for the better than matters. Manners included. Thank you for tolerating my little tirade of a treatise. Again. ;D
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Can you explain physics to a newborn and have it understand it all? What about gene splicing? What about the weather?
If God exists He is so far removed from us that it might not even be fair to compare us as newborns to Him (as I have just done above).
How then would a rational being explain such things as creation and the like to a relative retard? Vis a vie metaphorically. It makes sense to me but then I am a rational being myself.
When I choose to be. The aforementioned supposition is how I look at creation and the like. Me. Not any here, just me.
I cannot fault the life of the Christ nor would I want to because it is worthy of admiration and imitation, if you will. And only if you choose to.
Men such as Joseph Smith or that other stalwart swine Mohammed are without merit in any sense of the word. So then, if you choose to not follow any man perhaps you might wish to follow the finest example of what it means to be a good man. In the truest meaning of the word, "good". Jesus of Nazareth.
I know many good people that are Atheists who exemplify Christ like mannerisms far more than do many so called followers of the Christ. That they choose not to believe in the Christ is their choice, that they behave in a manner that would be pleasing to Him is their honor.
If any here have issue with my words I have no problem with that, but unless you wish to make yourself an idiot, kindly do so in a manner befitting that of my late friend Reeves. If not, FTN.
If you have no idea about what I am saying, I cannot help you save to suggest you look it up here. The man was superb in so many ways, not the least of which was disagreeing with my faith with class. Something sorely missing from more than a few here. Not all, mind you and those I am referring to as having that element of class should know who they are. Good people.
To those that think themselves "clever" in their childish attempts at dissecting the life of Jesus of Nazareth as though they were their tables "lead" in 9th grade biology and their dead cat were named "Jesus", I say this - I will not force you to wear the same shoes as I do nor any shoe for that matter. In like fashion don't try to feed me your pedestrian offal.
Anyone can change, it's change for the better than matters. Manners included. Thank you for tolerating my little tirade of a treatise. Again. ;D
I suspect that those who "take the piss" here are doing it just because its getbig. All-in-all, most of the people here lead ordinary, good lives. On average, people are all not that different from each other in terms of what we seek out of life. There are just multiple pathways to getting there. But it all leads us down the same path to the ultimate goal that we all seek -- happiness.
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Can you explain physics to a newborn and have it understand it all? What about gene splicing? What about the weather?
So your argument is that while the universe behaves in a measured, rational manner, it began with magic. So before anything existed a hypercomplex being did, does this make sense? when has anything ever started off at it's most complex? if the complexity of the universe begs for a creator then surely an even more complex being than the universe demands one?
If God exists He is so far removed from us that it might not even be fair to compare us as newborns to Him (as I have just done above).
If god exists, he is not in control, but a part of this.
How then would a rational being explain such things as creation and the like to a relative retard? Vis a vie metaphorically. It makes sense to me but then I am a rational being myself.
Give me a good metaphor for god and universe.
When I choose to be. The aforementioned supposition is how I look at creation and the like. Me. Not any here, just me.
I cannot fault the life of the Christ nor would I want to because it is worthy of admiration and imitation, if you will. And only if you choose to.
Men such as Joseph Smith or that other stalwart swine Mohammed are without merit in any sense of the word. So then, if you choose to not follow any man perhaps you might wish to follow the finest example of what it means to be a good man. In the truest meaning of the word, "good". Jesus of Nazareth.
I know many good people that are Atheists who exemplify Christ like mannerisms far more than do many so called followers of the Christ. That they choose not to believe in the Christ is their choice, that they behave in a manner that would be pleasing to Him is their honor.
If any here have issue with my words I have no problem with that, but unless you wish to make yourself an idiot, kindly do so in a manner befitting that of my late friend Reeves. If not, FTN.
If you have no idea about what I am saying, I cannot help you save to suggest you look it up here. The man was superb in so many ways, not the least of which was disagreeing with my faith with class. Something sorely missing from more than a few here. Not all, mind you and those I am referring to as having that element of class should know who they are. Good people.
we are debating on a internet forum. I wouldn't take it this seriously. Disagreeing with you or attacking your words should not be seen as rude etc.
To those that think themselves "clever" in their childish attempts at dissecting the life of Jesus of Nazareth as though they were their tables "lead" in 9th grade biology and their dead cat were named "Jesus", I say this - I will not force you to wear the same shoes as I do nor any shoe for that matter. In like fashion don't try to feed me your pedestrian offal.
He may have been a great man, has no bearing on the veracity of the claims in the bible.
Anyone can change, it's change for the better than matters. Manners included. Thank you for tolerating my little tirade of a treatise. Again. ;D
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Uncle Junior: proof God exists and has a sense of humor.
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Uncle Junior: proof God exists and has a sense of humor.
Uncle Junior is proof that God, is in fact, infallible. :D :D ;D ;D
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How many atheists on their deathbed who as their just about to die have some sort of conversation with a God or higher power that may or may not be there? I'd imagine the percentage is huge. And if they lived their whole life as an atheist, but were thinking of some sort of God as they were about to go, i'd say they really weren't an atheists after all, and just a poser or phony of sorts...I've read that many Doctors who were atheists on their deathbed weren't atheists after all when shit got real :-\
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Ok, in each of your examples I can verify the person I offended, you are using real world examples. You cannot use real world concrete examples and then jump into the supernatural as if it's the same thing. So murder I go to jail for life, wearing shirts of two different fabrics, eternal damnation.
I bet hell is full of people with down syndrome. what you are saying makes no sense. A eternal punishment for finite offences is absurd. If anyone should be in hell is god, he drowned the whole world, animals, insects, plants, everything.......
God appears to be a politician.
Remember, you're arguing from the Christian worldview so don't deflect the argument (which you fully grasp) by saying God is supernatural so the example is invalidated.....that's a copout. Within the Christian worldview we grant the existence of God and the supernatural can be offended just like the natural, but the penalty for offense is different and greater if the supernatural is offended. You willfully break an infinite law of an infinite God and you receive an infinite offense unless you trust in Jesus Christ.
You're also referencing old covenant, levitical laws for the Israelites...fabric mixing, eating of clean animals, hygiene practices, animal sacrifice for sin atonement, tithing practices, etc....not applicable today.
God passed judgment upon the entire population of evil, reprobate, repugnant human beings who committed all sorts of deviant, twisted acts....they corrupted the whole of the earth. Insect, plants, rocks, animals, etc....were not punished but were all corrupted because of the rampant sin. God cleansed the planet of the decay of sin (brought about by humanity) aside from the single righteous family and the creatures he sent to them for care. Why is it you are in favor of the reprobate and not the righteous?
Why do you assume hell is filled with folks with mental handicaps like down syndrome? Those folks with mental disabilities are unable to make an intelligent, developed, informed choice about Christ and are as innocent as children who also cannot comprehend sin, salvation, etc.... Now certainly some mentally handicapped are aware and capable enough to acknowledge the existence of God via nature and conscience; therefore, in scripture we note that God will judge these folks that don't understand or know Christ on the basis of their response to God's revelation to them via nature and their conscience. Babies and children that pass early on in life are innocents and therefore incapable of understanding an offense against God or Christ's salvation. These children will reside with God in his eternity upon their passing as they have essentially committed no sin. So often we disregard the perfect justice of God and warp it into an absolute that makes our argument "reasonable".....often stepping out of the Christian worldview to do so.
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And? ???
There is NO choice. The excuse God gave you free will is a LIE plain & simple. It's either believe or burn forever that's NOT a choice there is nothing free about exercising my will. God isn't saying " Hey if you want to believe in me cool and if not that's cool too " He's saying believe in me or I will fucking burn you forever and ever. That's an amoral proposition.
And if I have free will to decide to believe in God why does it come with such a heavy consequence? That's NOT an exercise of free will. It's do as I say or else. Let's not pretend I have a choice in the matter. Your God is amoral and I would rather burn in hell then worship him and his amoral teachings.
I was brainwashed into the Christian wold view by my Mother. I decided the story is amoral and the existence of God described in the bible is a laughable myth. And it's ironic a Christian talking about cherry picking lol
I don't believe in vicarious redemption that's amoral as well. I don't want to join God in the afterlife and if I'm punished by eternal damnation then that proves he wasn't worthy to be followed and praised.
My position is the best one that I came to on my own after taking everything into consideration. You or God won't persuade me otherwise , when I die I have NO fear of Hell or Heaven. I treat people how I want to be treated and have lived a more moral life than 90% of the believers I know.
I'll reply when I have more time.
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Atheist Pride Multiverse wide :D
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I suspect that those who "take the piss" here are doing it just because its getbig. All-in-all, most of the people here lead ordinary, good lives. On average, people are all not that different from each other in terms of what we seek out of life. There are just multiple pathways to getting there. But it all leads us down the same path to the ultimate goal that we all seek -- happiness.
I'm impressed, this is a very reasonable, sincere answer! ;D
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I'm impressed, this is a very reasonable, sincere answer! ;D
It is due to his being a reasonable, sincere man and I treat him as such, i.e., a friend.
Be well, my friend.
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it is clear humans seek happiness, is that the pinnacle of human potential though?
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Quote from: The Scott on Today at 11:45:08 AM
Can you explain physics to a newborn and have it understand it all? What about gene splicing? What about the weather?
So your argument is that while the universe behaves in a measured, rational manner, it began with magic. So before anything existed a hypercomplex being did, does this make sense? when has anything ever started off at it's most complex? if the complexity of the universe begs for a creator then surely an even more complex being than the universe demands one?
If God exists He is so far removed from us that it might not even be fair to compare us as newborns to Him (as I have just done above).
If god exists, he is not in control, but a part of this.
How then would a rational being explain such things as creation and the like to a relative retard? Vis a vie metaphorically. It makes sense to me but then I am a rational being myself.
Give me a good metaphor for god and universe.
When I choose to be. The aforementioned supposition is how I look at creation and the like. Me. Not any here, just me.
I cannot fault the life of the Christ nor would I want to because it is worthy of admiration and imitation, if you will. And only if you choose to.
Men such as Joseph Smith or that other stalwart swine Mohammed are without merit in any sense of the word. So then, if you choose to not follow any man perhaps you might wish to follow the finest example of what it means to be a good man. In the truest meaning of the word, "good". Jesus of Nazareth.
I know many good people that are Atheists who exemplify Christ like mannerisms far more than do many so called followers of the Christ. That they choose not to believe in the Christ is their choice, that they behave in a manner that would be pleasing to Him is their honor.
If any here have issue with my words I have no problem with that, but unless you wish to make yourself an idiot, kindly do so in a manner befitting that of my late friend Reeves. If not, FTN.
If you have no idea about what I am saying, I cannot help you save to suggest you look it up here. The man was superb in so many ways, not the least of which was disagreeing with my faith with class. Something sorely missing from more than a few here. Not all, mind you and those I am referring to as having that element of class should know who they are. Good people.
we are debating on a internet forum. I wouldn't take it this seriously. Disagreeing with you or attacking your words should not be seen as rude etc.
To those that think themselves "clever" in their childish attempts at dissecting the life of Jesus of Nazareth as though they were their tables "lead" in 9th grade biology and their dead cat were named "Jesus", I say this - I will not force you to wear the same shoes as I do nor any shoe for that matter. In like fashion don't try to feed me your pedestrian offal.
He may have been a great man, has no bearing on the veracity of the claims in the bible.
Anyone can change, it's change for the better than matters. Manners included. Thank you for tolerating my little tirade of a treatise. Again. Grin
Your conjecture that I imply "magic" is unfounded especially in light of the fact that I have never stated such. I have, however, said that I simply do not know how all this came to pass. What passes for science with regard to the beginning of all that we know is naught but an educated guess. I can live with both sides of this coin. Apparently (and perhaps I am wrong) you cannot.
If God exists (and I have repeatedly said as much, then He is in far more charge than either you or I but to what extent remains to be seen. Like everything else. I can live with that but again, perhaps you cannot.
I do not debate. I simply state that which I hold true and leave it at that. Outside my utter disdain for Islam and false ministers of all denominations and the BS of such as Wiggs and certain others (on a variety of subjects) I am not rude. It is my personal experience that like their faith based counterparts, some Atheists are just plain rude. I do live with this but point it out as it is a part of who and what I am.
Jesus of Nazareth was and is a great man. And more. But as you say it has no bearing on the veracity of the Word. Or it does. There are two sides to every coin and a 50-50 chance every time one flips it.
In each lifetime that one coin is flipped countless times.
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Religious people are just as good as playing the "victim" card these days. Back in the day they did not have to, because they "ruled" over everything. Their word was authority. Not so much any more. Now they are starting to get a feel for what its like to be criticized. They do not like this. Thus, as stated before, they play the victim card like everyone else.
Hope this helps.
Haha , SF1900 destroying MOS , just like I predicted .
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Haha , SF1900 destroying MOS , just like I predicted .
Nice trolling, che.
I recognize that every group plays the victim card. No one has a monopoly on being a victim. Every group has faced disadvantages at times. Some real, some not so real.
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Lucius Annaeus Seneca.
“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”
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I'm impressed, this is a very reasonable, sincere answer! ;D
It happens every so often! ;D ;D
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it is clear humans seek happiness, is that the pinnacle of human potential though?
Its an impossible question to answer.
I consider myself a Social Constructionist, thus I believe we all construct reality differently.
There is no one way to conceive the pinnacle of human thought.
Take Einstein. Did he reach the pinnacle of human thought? Some may say yes, considering his vast intellect and his ability to change the world. However, there is some thoughts that Einstein was a selfish person. He really only cared about his work and probably had little understanding how his behavior affected others. He was probably unreflective when it came to personal matters. Can we really say he reached the pinnacle of human thought, despite his lack of thought regarding interpersonal matters?
As Nietzsche said, "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
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10pints:
"Truth does not exist. Enlightenment does."
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Mormons are nice folks. Never met a pissed Mormon and most of the women are decent looking and are okay with domestic life. They plan for natural disasters with food storage and shit like that. It's just the shit like not drinking and gambling and all of the cool stuff that makes it not something I'd want to do. I'd be down with the multiple wives though. From talking to some, they don't believe in hell and that God is a father figure who isn't out to punish you. I had a physics professor who was Mormon and I never thought of him as an idiot. Just a real nice guy who probably didn't go home and beat his wife(s).
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of course it is. Would you ever say to your daughter obey me or you will burn forever, it's her choice of course. She just has to choose in the manner which pleases him, otherwise, eternal torture.
Eternal anything as a punishment for finite acts is completely amoral.
Why? And by being "amoral" then it's not a matter of right or wrong so what does it matter?
If someone murders your daughter that is not a finite act. She is gone forever.
And why is there even a relationship between finite acts and eternal consequences? Say you're a drug addict and fry your brain for the rest of your life. You take steroids and now your kidneys are shot and you are on dialysis
for the rest of your list.
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And where is the opposition to these coming from? The religious right and why? Because a Bronze-age myth told them it's wrong. Stop being disingenuous.
Roe v Wade is a matter of State rights. It was simply bad law. Nothing to do with religion.
When life begins is also not a matter of religion but a legal definition. In the case of partial birth
abortion the fetus, the fetus is viable -- meaning it can exist outside the womb.
Take the hypothetical: when a partial birth abortion is performed the abortionist pulls a living baby feet-first out of the womb and into the birth canal, except for the head, which the abortionist purposely keeps lodged just inside the cervix (the opening to the womb). The abortionist punctures the base of the baby’s skull with a surgical instrument, such as a long surgical scissors. He then inserts a catheter (tube) into the wound, and removes the baby's brain with a powerful suction machine. This causes the skull to collapse, after which the abortionist completes the delivery of the now-dead baby.
Now say when performing this procedure the head accidentally slips out of the birth canal and now you have a
living, albeit premature, baby lying on the surgical table. What now? Can you still puncture it's skull?
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Religious beliefs have been bastardized to death to give people an excuse to hate and kill each other.
Nothing comes even remotely close to the murder of innocent people than Communism. Not a religious based
ideology.
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I hope that isn't an invitation for me to open a very large can of whup-ass on abortion, because I will rain science down on your nihilistic asses until you beg your Gaia for the sweet release of death.
LOL! I probably agree with you on just about everything regarding religion and politics, but man I'd like to see that can of whup ass based on science.
I'm always willing to learn a thing or two.
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Roe v Wade is a matter of State rights. It was simply bad law. Nothing to do with religion.
When life begins is also not a matter of religion but a legal definition. In the case of partial birth
abortion the fetus, the fetus is viable -- meaning it can exist outside the womb.
Take the hypothetical: when a partial birth abortion is performed the abortionist pulls a living baby feet-first out of the womb and into the birth canal, except for the head, which the abortionist purposely keeps lodged just inside the cervix (the opening to the womb). The abortionist punctures the base of the baby’s skull with a surgical instrument, such as a long surgical scissors. He then inserts a catheter (tube) into the wound, and removes the baby's brain with a powerful suction machine. This causes the skull to collapse, after which the abortionist completes the delivery of the now-dead baby.
Now say when performing this procedure the head accidentally slips out of the birth canal and now you have a
living, albeit premature, baby lying on the surgical table. What now? Can you still puncture it's skull?
You didn't answer the question.
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You didn't answer the question.
The issue was that opposition to abortion and same sex marriage is solely based on religious beliefs.
As it is being debated in our society the religious aspect is not a consideration. Some may base their positions on these matters and some don't. But your arguments for or against cannot be based on religion as these are legal matters (though to some they are moral as well). I am religious but my opposition to abortion and same sex marriage, along with my arguments supporting my beliefs, is not religious base.
You don't have to be religious to be oppose to stealing, cruelty or murder.
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going to work, paying bills, watching a basketball game, taking kids to band practice, buying a house, dating/getting married, family get togethers, going to the park, going to the beach, having babies....normal, everyday stuff and that's enough for them.
yes, believing in a mythical being is definitely abnormal.
Well, I don't know about that. The vast majority of the people of the world throughout history believed in some kind of deity. Even today in America, the majority consider themselves believers in the sense that the world was
created and didn't just always exist or popped up out of nowhere.
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The issue was that opposition to abortion and same sex marriage is solely based on religious beliefs.
As it is being debated in our society the religious aspect is not a consideration. Some may base their positions on these matters and some don't. But your arguments for or against cannot be based on religion as these are legal matters (though to some they are moral as well). I am religious but my opposition to abortion and same sex marriage, along with my arguments supporting my beliefs, is not religious base.
You don't have to be religious to be oppose to stealing, cruelty or murder.
All of the push on both fronts were from the religious right and the Republican party that pandered to them. This isn't debatable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_abortion
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God created the world with the ability to see the future. Placed a Tree in a garden that had knowledge of good and evil and told Adam and Eve not to eat it. They eat it much to his surprise and we are damned for eternity. Then Adam and Eve procreate to populate the earth. God is unhappy with how the inhabitants are acting and floods the earth killing all but 8 and 2 of all the animals of the world except the unicorns who were busy playing. Again the earth is repopulated but again we disappoint god. He then sends himself down in the form of Jesus "his son" but it's really him.. who acts like a sacrificial animal and is killed to pay the debt we owe for being born, because Adam ate the fruit. However if we don't accept this free gift.. we have to spend an eternity in hell. But he loves us... and sometimes, he answers your prayers if he wants to.....
Yeah.. that's something I can sink my teeth into
Yes, if God knew all that was going to happen -- a world he created that he knew was going to contain far, far more bad and evil than good then this is not an argument against the existence of a God. Rather it begs the far more interesting question, at least for me, as to whether or not God is good?
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Yes, if God knew all that was going to happen -- a world he created that he knew was going to contain far, far more bad and evil than good then this is not an argument against the existence of a God. Rather it begs the far more interesting question, at least for me, as to whether or not God is good?
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All of the push on both fronts were from the religious right and the Republican party that pandered to them. This isn't debatable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_abortion
It still doesn't dispute the facts that these are legal issues decided in court where religious arguments have no merit.
And it is just as true that legalizing abortion and same sex marriage are being "pushed" by secularist and the radical Left and the Democrat party that pander to them.
When people of faith and the Republicans "push" their ideology then it is called "brain washing." When the Left does the exact same thing it is called "education."
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And this is the issue that all theist should admit and struggle with. To say that God has a plan and everything
happens for a reason and that we are simply unequip to understand it does not cut it because we are the ones
who suffer the consequences through unspeakable pain and suffering.
This is where the theist are often dishonest and makes excuses for God permitting the grave injustices in this world.
Another point where they are not honest is that they don't simply admit that it is easier going through life
believing that there is an eternal Cosmic justice and the good will be rewarded and the bad punished.
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It still doesn't dispute the facts that these are legal issues decided in court where religious arguments have no merit.
And it is just as true that legalizing abortion and same sex marriage are being "pushed" by secularist and the radical Left and the Democrat party that pander to them.
When people of faith and the Republicans "push" their ideology then it is called "brain washing." When the Left does the exact same thing it is called "education."
It still doesn't dispute the facts that these are legal issues decided in court where religious arguments have no merit.
No kidding these are legal issues. Fought tooth-and-nail by the religious right whose sole opposition is because of the Holy book
And it is just as true that legalizing abortion and same sex marriage are being "pushed" by secularist and the radical Left and the Democrat party that pander to them.
The difference is I'm not denying the left pushed for gay equality and abortion. They're not doing it because of a Bronze-Age myth told them to. Gay people should marry because under the law we're all considered " equal " Back then the Church ruled with an iron first but they're all but powerless now.
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No kidding these are legal issues. Fought tooth-and-nail by the religious right whose sole opposition is because of the Holy book
The difference is I'm not denying the left pushed for gay equality and abortion. They're not doing it because of a Bronze-Age myth told them to. Gay people should marry because under the law we're all considered " equal " Back then the Church ruled with an iron first but they're all but powerless now.
Again, I am religious but my opposition to abortion and same sex marriage is not religious bases. I was oppose to both of these even when I was an agnostic.
I don't get his constant reference to this "Bronze-Age myth that told them to". Gay people had the same rights as everybody else to marry. Everyone had the right to be legally recognized in their marriage to a member of the opposite sex -- gay or straight. Nobody had the legally recognized right to marry a member of the same sex -- gay or straight. They wanted special rights. Rights that had never existed throughout human history.
As Arnold said during his first run for Governor: "I support gay marriage as long as it's between a man and a woman."
Of course, anybody can do what they want in their personal lives. Hugh Hefner was for all practical purposes a polygamous. One of my uncles got married to his boyfriend back in the 1980s and are still together playing house.
Only difference with Hefner and my uncle is that they don't demand that society accept, endorse, recognize and honor their lifestyle. They just did their own thing and didn't impose their lifestyle on others.
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Heaven should be existing eternally in your happiest living moment, like what the injun in Green Mile wanted. But nothingness probably ain't so bad either.
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Only difference with Hefner and my uncle is that they don't demand that society accept, endorse, recognize and honor their lifestyle. They just did their own thing and didn't impose their lifestyle on others.
If only religious people could do the same, but they actually have an 'Evangelical' rule that states they must force their religion down other peoples throats.
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If only religious people could do the same, but they actually have an 'Evangelical' rule that states they must force their religion down other peoples throats.
JWs f'n force you to be confrontational. Seriously, I try to be nice, knowing they're obligated to sell their nonsense at my doorstep. But nice invites them back, thinking maybe they've got a live one.
Just went back to playing 'hit the deck,' like before.
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Are there still adults who believe in fairy tales...that's cute. You guys should read Peter Pan...another good story.
How anyone buys into any religion is comical. You drank the Kool Aid.
If someone showed you a bible for the first time at the age of 30, you would laugh I their face if they tried to pawn it off as a real story.
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Its an impossible question to answer.
I consider myself a Social Constructionist, thus I believe we all construct reality differently.
There is no one way to conceive the pinnacle of human thought.
Take Einstein. Did he reach the pinnacle of human thought? Some may say yes, considering his vast intellect and his ability to change the world. However, there is some thoughts that Einstein was a selfish person. He really only cared about his work and probably had little understanding how his behavior affected others. He was probably unreflective when it came to personal matters. Can we really say he reached the pinnacle of human thought, despite his lack of thought regarding interpersonal matters?
As Nietzsche said, "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
I am happy right now drinking my morning coffee, with my dog at my side and my girlfriend in the kitchen, knowing I am going on holiday in 4 days with my parents. This is a certain kind of happiness and I am grateful for it. I don't equate it with the full flowering of my potential though. After-all a bum on the street would not want more than to have a warm bed, a warm meal and a hot drink at night. I am sure you have heard of maslows hierarchy of needs. To me self actualization is more than the genius of thought or invention. And I feel that all humans need enlightenment to be truly happy in the deepest sense. However I would not say there is only one way to get there, only one correct path. Nor do I spend much time trying to convince others of my views.
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Mormons are nice folks. Never met a pissed Mormon and most of the women are decent looking and are okay with domestic life. They plan for natural disasters with food storage and shit like that. It's just the shit like not drinking and gambling and all of the cool stuff that makes it not something I'd want to do. I'd be down with the multiple wives though. From talking to some, they don't believe in hell and that God is a father figure who isn't out to punish you. I had a physics professor who was Mormon and I never thought of him as an idiot. Just a real nice guy who probably didn't go home and beat his wife(s).
Great folks.
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I am happy right now drinking my morning coffee, with my dog at my side and my girlfriend in the kitchen, knowing I am going on holiday in 4 days with my parents. This is a certain kind of happiness and I am grateful for it. I don't equate it with the full flowering of my potential though. After-all a bum on the street would not want more than to have a warm bed, a warm meal and a hot drink at night. I am sure you have heard of maslows hierarchy of needs. To me self actualization is more than the genius of thought or invention. And I feel that all humans need enlightenment to be truly happy in the deepest sense. However I would not say there is only one way to get there, only one correct path. Nor do I spend much time trying to convince others of my views.
Are you suggesting that you are enlightened? Or that once our basic needs are met that one should start pinning their glutes and lifting heavy objects? Or is that just one of the paths to enlightenment?
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No where did I suggest I am enlightened in that.
Tally up another wank on your out wank my bros wank pad.
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If only religious people could do the same, but they actually have an 'Evangelical' rule that states they must force their religion down other peoples throats.
Who does? Not me or anyone that I know. Nor is it promoted in the various churches I've attended throughout my life.
It is one thing to promote ideas you think are best: gun ownership, lower taxes, decriminalizing drugs... but forcing it down someone's throat?
That never works. Only if you have power over the individual and can use coercion. But even then it won't be genuine and they will turn against you as so as the tables are turned or when you are not looking.
I believe in a free market capitalism and spout my beliefs every time issues like minimum wage laws or price controls on, say, oil or housing comes up. But that's hardly force my views down anybody's throat.
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Are there still adults who believe in fairy tales...that's cute. You guys should read Peter Pan...another good story.
How anyone buys into any religion is comical. You drank the Kool Aid.
If someone showed you a bible for the first time at the age of 30, you would laugh I their face if they tried to pawn it off as a real story.
If someone found a calculator on Mars you would laugh in their face if they claimed that it was just the random concussions of the universe that created it and not that it was created by an independent intelligent being.
Humans are a bit more advance than a calculator.
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If someone found a calculator on Mars you would laugh in their face if they claimed that it was just the random concussions of the universe that created it and not that it was created by an independent intelligent being.
Humans are a bit more advance than a calculator.
Not the ones I have met.
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No where did I suggest I am enlightened in that.
Tally up another wank on your out wank my bros wank pad.
This did make me smile. Good for you Bigro. ;D
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Great folks.
And with Mormons they are, in fact, all compelled to go out on a "Mission" to try to convert others to their wacky religion. But I am not offended or threatened or bothered by them at all. In fact, when most people their age are getting drunk or high financed by their parents. A Mormon is sent out away from their home, often to a third world country, to proselytize their faith.
i have no interest in being a Mormon but admire their commitment to their faith. Whenever I see a Mormon, and there are a lot of them here in Hawaii, wearing their dress shirt and ties riding their bikes in the blazing hot sun, I always tip them a nod and greet them with, "How's it going Elders. You do good work."
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Its an impossible question to answer.
I consider myself a Social Constructionist, thus I believe we all construct reality differently.
There is no one way to conceive the pinnacle of human thought.
Take Einstein. Did he reach the pinnacle of human thought? Some may say yes, considering his vast intellect and his ability to change the world. However, there is some thoughts that Einstein was a selfish person. He really only cared about his work and probably had little understanding how his behavior affected others. He was probably unreflective when it came to personal matters. Can we really say he reached the pinnacle of human thought, despite his lack of thought regarding interpersonal matters?
As Nietzsche said, "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
computers have already done more then human thought ever could, human thought is a terrible tool for discovering truth, it's wrought with bias, inconsistencies.
Einstein likely had aspergers which explains the lack of interpersonal skills, he was unaware of them like a deaf person is unaware of thunder.
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No where did I suggest I am enlightened in that.
Tally up another wank on your out wank my bros wank pad.
This is my issue with spirituality, how do you know being enlightened is not another form of delusion?
No one knows, no one. Meditating may be doing little more then silencing your default network like psychedelics do. These states can be observed, certain chemicals etc. psychedelics are a much faster way to "enlightenment", however, we know perception is limited.
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Who does? Not me or anyone that I know. Nor is it promoted in the various churches I've attended throughout my life.
It is one thing to promote ideas you think are best: gun ownership, lower taxes, decriminalizing drugs... but forcing it down someone's throat?
That never works. Only if you have power over the individual and can use coercion. But even then it won't be genuine and they will turn against you as so as the tables are turned or when you are not looking.
I believe in a free market capitalism and spout my beliefs every time issues like minimum wage laws or price controls on, say, oil or housing comes up. But that's hardly force my views down anybody's throat.
the other website is a classic example of that a cult where everything goes wrong
and people are exorcised by a creepy deity with strange kig like powers
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This is my issue with spirituality, how do you know being enlightened is not another form of delusion?
No one knows, no one. Meditating may be doing little more then silencing your default network like psychedelics do. These states can be observed, certain chemicals etc. psychedelics are a much faster way to "enlightenment", however, we know perception is limited.
Because it brings peace,light,love,power,freedom all that is contrary to a state of delusion which brings confusion, darkness,anger, misery and bondage.
You have an issue with spirituality but have not even set foot on the path.
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computers have already done more then human thought ever could, human thought is a terrible tool for discovering truth, it's wrought with bias, inconsistencies.
Einstein likely had aspergers which explains the lack of interpersonal skills, he was unaware of them like a deaf person is unaware of thunder.
Beautifully put.
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Because it brings peace,light,love,power,freedom all that is contrary to a state of delusion which brings confusion, darkness,anger, misery and bondage.
Please let me know when this process is supposed to begin, sounds wonderful.
BigRo look around you buddy, the worlds a violent cesspool of perversion, desperation and unfulfilled desires, face it you are living a delusion.
While love may be the grandest of emotions, and romantic fools long to dwell in it for eternity, it comes at a cost, a very large one, it is entwined with lust, greed, envy, anger and any number of countless sins and perversions. Peace, light and love as wonderful as they may be are only fleeting and temporary I am afraid, the rest of the time is filled with pus and shit. Hope this helps.
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Because it brings peace,light,love,power,freedom all that is contrary to a state of delusion which brings confusion, darkness,anger, misery and bondage.
You have an issue with spirituality but have not even set foot on the path.
So the feelings it evokes are evidence of it's authenticity? A line of cocaine would evoke similar feelings, MDMA can do it as well. Can a psychopath experience this enlightenment despite being void of emotions, empathy etc? if not, then it's simply another brain process.
How do you know I haven't, I have experimented pretty intensely with hallucinogens, meditate and constantly engage in existential rumination's. I don't trust my senses, I have experienced the oneness (this is because an area in the brain shuts off, which controls where you vs outside begins, real data) the fact that we are nothingness headed back to oblivion, I listen to alan watts etc. no one knows, he is just giving his best guess he could be terrible wrong and this is all a cruel joke. Emotionally satisfying ideologies do not move me as much as intellectually satisfying ones.
I have gone from spinoza's pantheism, to atheism, to a amalgam of buddhist philosophy only to find other humans telling me things that they can't possibly know.
to me it is intriguing to think why anything exists at all, aquinas said the reason was what exists must, it's very essence is to exist such that nothingness is eternally absent. If god exists I would imagine he is simply existence, with no control but simply a divided whole, to see infinity you must be zero, we are nothing, because infinity is nothingness, nothing is everything.
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So the feelings it evokes are evidence of it's authenticity? A line of cocaine would evoke similar feelings, MDMA can do it as well. Can a psychopath experience this enlightenment despite being void of emotions, empathy etc? if not, then it's simply another brain process.
How do you know I haven't, I have experimented pretty intensely with hallucinogens, meditate and constantly engage in existential rumination's. I don't trust my senses, I have experienced the oneness (this is because an area in the brain shuts off, which controls where you vs outside begins, real data) the fact that we are nothingness headed back to oblivion, I listen to alan watts etc. no one knows, he is just giving his best guess he could be terrible wrong and this is all a cruel joke. Emotionally satisfying ideologies do not move me as much as intellectually satisfying ones.
I have gone from spinoza's pantheism, to atheism, to a amalgam of buddhist philosophy only to find other humans telling me things that they can't possibly know.
to me it is intriguing to think why anything exists at all, aquinas said the reason was what exists must, it's very essence is to exist such that nothingness is eternally absent. If god exists I would imagine he is simply existence, with no control but simply a divided whole, to see infinity you must be zero, we are nothing, because infinity is nothingness, nothing is everything.
(http://img.pandawhale.com/post-23187-Dwayne-The-Rock-Johnson-Clappi-q15o.gif)
I hear you. Thanks to cid, I really appreciated what you just posted.
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This is my issue with spirituality, how do you know being enlightened is not another form of delusion?
No one knows, no one. Meditating may be doing little more then silencing your default network like psychedelics do. These states can be observed, certain chemicals etc. psychedelics are a much faster way to "enlightenment", however, we know perception is limited.
My issue is lack of spirit. SpiritLESS, essentially, no trace at all on MRI. Sucks.
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And I feel that all humans need enlightenment to be truly happy in the deepest sense.
No where did I suggest I am enlightened in that.
Tally up another wank on your out wank my bros wank pad.
Just that you equated the importance of being enlightened to happiness, it sounded like you were talking from experience. So you mean you have constructed a theory as to what is required to be happy and YOU FEEL that enlightenment is an essential part of that recipe.
You posted "And I feel that all humans need enlightenment to be truly happy in the deepest sense.", how could you possibly know this unless you were enlightened. Otherwise it's just an assumption on your part, and you know what they say about assumptions.
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Please let me know when this process is supposed to begin, sounds wonderful.
BigRo look around you buddy, the worlds a violent cesspool of perversion, desperation and unfulfilled desires, face it you are living a delusion.
The world you speak of exists because of delusion and ignorance of our divine nature
While love may be the grandest of emotions, and romantic fools long to dwell in it for eternity, it comes at a cost, a very large one, it is entwined with lust, greed, envy, anger and any number of countless sins and perversions. Peace, light and love as wonderful as they may be are only fleeting and temporary I am afraid, the rest of the time is filled with pus and shit. Hope this helps.
Love is what is left when all those traits you mention subside.
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So the feelings it evokes are evidence of it's authenticity? A line of cocaine would evoke similar feelings, MDMA can do it as well. Can a psychopath experience this enlightenment despite being void of emotions, empathy etc? if not, then it's simply another brain process.
Yes, you have not gone deep enough to be convinced. A line of cocaine does not come close, MDMA maybe only so much as it slows the mind down to recognize its essential nature which is love. That certain substances illicit altered states of mind is not a proof that there is no spiritual dimension independent of the brain. Such proof in hard terms is only needed by such as yourself anyway. There are cases of meditators stopping all brain and heart activity, clinically dead only to return to life again. And no a psychopath cannot realize enlightenment until he drops his psychosis.
How do you know I haven't, I have experimented pretty intensely with hallucinogens, meditate and constantly engage in existential rumination's. I don't trust my senses, I have experienced the oneness (this is because an area in the brain shuts off, which controls where you vs outside begins, real data) the fact that we are nothingness headed back to oblivion, I listen to alan watts etc. no one knows, he is just giving his best guess he could be terrible wrong and this is all a cruel joke. Emotionally satisfying ideologies do not move me as much as intellectually satisfying ones.
Glad to hear. What is important is the personal experience not proving through hard data that the soul and all exists. You talk with conviction that it is all brain chemistry.
I have gone from spinoza's pantheism, to atheism, to a amalgam of buddhist philosophy only to find other humans telling me things that they can't possibly know.
What have you found out of your own accord then? You have gone from listening to Watts and crew to listening to atheists and physicists, your still listening to someone.
to me it is intriguing to think why anything exists at all, aquinas said the reason was what exists must, it's very essence is to exist such that nothingness is eternally absent. If god exists I would imagine he is simply existence, with no control but simply a divided whole, to see infinity you must be zero, we are nothing, because infinity is nothingness, nothing is everything.
aha your validating that we actually can see infinity then afterall!
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My issue is lack of spirit. SpiritLESS, essentially, no trace at all on MRI. Sucks.
just because it cannot be measured by the instruments of hard science is not enough to prove its non existence. You also have faith, faith that the instruments of hard science are adequate to measure all things, therefore you are a religious.
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just because it cannot be measured by the instruments of hard science is not enough to prove its non existence. You also have faith, faith that the instruments of hard science are adequate to measure all things, therefore you are a religious.
No, this is demonstrably wrong. The whole argument of "science is a religion" and requires "faith" is wrong. Its an argument that has been debunked time and time again.
Having "faith" that gravity exists is 100% different than having "faith" that a spirit exists.
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Just that you equated the importance of being enlightened to happiness, it sounded like you were talking from experience. So you mean you have constructed a theory as to what is required to be happy and YOU FEEL that enlightenment is an essential part of that recipe.
I am talking from experience in as much as my happiest moments in life so far have been when I am dwelling in what would be called a spiritual state of being/mind.
You posted "And I feel that all humans need enlightenment to be truly happy in the deepest sense.", how could you possibly know this unless you were enlightened. Otherwise it's just an assumption on your part, and you know what they say about assumptions.
I have had enlightenment experiences, but I still have ego and human nature. Even if I said I was enlightened you would still call it an assumption. Even if nothing fantastic is going on when I abide within in basic stillness and peace I feel or intuit that this abiding is something humans need and miss out on. You seem to dismiss and look down on feelings and trump cold hard reason, however is your cold hard reason not also tinged by emotion, it is a worldview that has been fortified by life's harsh experiences.
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No, this is demonstrably wrong. The whole argument of "science is a religion" and requires "faith" is wrong. Its an argument that has been debunked time and time again.
Having "faith" that gravity exists is 100% different than having "faith" that a spirit exists.
Yes it is different, gravity lays within hard sciences just field of investigation. Spirit does not. To conclude that spirit does not exist means you have faith in the methodology of materialist science to adequately explain away all things.
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Yes it is different, gravity lays within hard sciences just field of investigation. Spirit does not. To conclude that spirit does not exist means you have faith in the methodology of materialist science to adequately explain away all things.
Well, isn't that just convenient and dandy, the fairy tale you believe in can't be investigated because it lives somewhere in the nether regions where no light shines from.
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just because it cannot be measured by the instruments of hard science is not enough to prove its non existence. You also have faith, faith that the instruments of hard science are adequate to measure all things, therefore you are a religious.
Just like that, huh?
2+2 = anything imaginable, and faith alone gives me 4?
Which makes me a religious.
Sublime, sir.
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Just like that, huh?
2+2 = anything imaginable, faith alone gives me 4.
Which makes me a religious.
Sublime, sir.
This thread has now officially gone beyond deep. ;D
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This thread has now officially gone beyond deep. ;D
Sorry.
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Sorry.
What for, I enjoyed the witty prose within your post. ;D
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Yes it is different, gravity lays within hard sciences just field of investigation. Spirit does not. To conclude that spirit does not exist means you have faith in the methodology of materialist science to adequately explain away all things.
No, just stop. Please stop. You sound like a dolt.
I have REASONABLE expectations that these scientific instruments work and are able to observe our physical world. I believe in these things because they are demonstrable and are repeatable through investigation. Thus, I do not have "FAITH" that these things are true. I have REASONABLE expectations that they are true based on repeated observations. But I may be wrong, and something new can appear.
Even if science cannot explain what a "spirit" is, it does not take away from the fact that science does not require "FAITH." You're using the word "faith" in the wrong context when discussing science. Faith in a spirit and "faith" in science are ENTIRELY two different things.
I am sorry that you are too stupid to understand the HUGE difference between the two.
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No, just stop. Please stop. You sound like a dolt.
I have REASONABLE expectations that these scientific instruments work and are able to observe our physical world. I believe in these things because they are demonstrable and are repeatable through investigation. Thus, I do not have "FAITH" that these things are true. I have REASONABLE expectations that they are true based on repeated observations. But I may be wrong, and something new can appear.
Even if science cannot explain what a "spirit" is, it does not take away from the fact that science does not require "FAITH." You're using the word "faith" in the wrong context when discussing science. Faith in a spirit and "faith" in science are ENTIRELY two different things.
I am sorry that you are too stupid to understand the HUGE difference between the two.
The words FAITH and STUPID are interchangeable and one is often confused for the other.
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The words FAITH and STUPID are interchangeable and one is often confused for the other.
Low blow, but funny. ;D ;D
People of faith may be very smart in certain aspects of life, but its almost like when it comes to spirits, God, and all this stuff, they just seem to compartmentalize that part of their thinking.
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Low blow, but funny. ;D ;D
People of faith may be very smart in certain aspects of life, but its almost like when it comes to spirits, God, and all this stuff, they just seem to compartmentalize that part of their thinking.
I know, odd phenomena from the perspective of those who don't compartmentalise in this way. I am sure it has something to do with such people never really growing up (or a part of them that remains stunted), They remain unwilling to let go of the symbolism of being a child, dependent, helpless and stupid yet loved and protected regardless by those in authority.
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Well, isn't that just convenient and dandy, the fairy tale you believe in can't be investigated because it lives somewhere in the nether regions where no light shines from.
It can be investigated, you have to become a spiritual scientist to do it using a different methodology.
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No, just stop. Please stop. You sound like a dolt.
I have REASONABLE expectations that these scientific instruments work and are able to observe our physical world. I believe in these things because they are demonstrable and are repeatable through investigation. Thus, I do not have "FAITH" that these things are true. I have REASONABLE expectations that they are true based on repeated observations. But I may be wrong, and something new can appear.
Even if science cannot explain what a "spirit" is, it does not take away from the fact that science does not require "FAITH." You're using the word "faith" in the wrong context when discussing science. Faith in a spirit and "faith" in science are ENTIRELY two different things.
I am sorry that you are too stupid to understand the HUGE difference between the two.
To observe our physical world yes science does not need faith in something higher or spiritual, it does need faith in the human minds ability to accurately put together a picture of the universe though. Its just a word faith you could say confidence. I am pro science in that respect. What I dislike is when atheism uses science to prove the non existence of god,spirit,enlightenment or whatever words tickle your fancy.
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It can be investigated, you have to become a spiritual scientist to do it using a different methodology.
spiritual scientist you say.! Say no more. I think I understand what I am dealing with now.
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is that all you can do now, respond with infantile remarks like this. You use a microscope to study microbes etc, you use concentration and meditation upon source of the mind to study spirit, simple.
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is that all you can do now, respond with infantile remarks like this. You use a microscope to study microbes etc, you use concentration and meditation upon source of the mind to study spirit, simple.
Come on now, you can't expect to say things like 'Spiritual Scientist" and expect to be taken seriously, surely.
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To observe our physical world yes science does not need faith in something higher or spiritual, it does need faith in the human minds ability to accurately put together a picture of the universe though. Its just a word faith you could say confidence. I am pro science in that respect. What I dislike is when atheism uses science to prove the non existence of god,spirit,enlightenment or whatever words tickle your fancy.
Well, what other method shall we use to disprove claims? Do you have a better method? If you do, you should pick up your nobel prize.
If someone makes a claim that a God or a spirit exists, they need to back up that claim. If they can't back it up, I am not going to believe the claim.
If you're going to male a claim, then fold your arms and say, "Well, science can't test it," where does that leave us? Nowhere. It just means youre allowed to excuse your claim from scientific understanding, so you can feel right. But when put under scientific scrutiny, your claims fail, thus why you keep saying, "They can't be tested with science." Of course they can be scientifically tested, you just refuse to accept it because it disproves your beliefs.
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Well, what other method shall we use to disprove claims? Do you have a better method? If you do, you should pick up your nobel prize.
If someone makes a claim that a God or a spirit exists, they need to back up that claim. If they can't back it up, I am not going to believe the claim.
If you're going to male a claim, then fold your arms and say, "Well, science can't test it," where does that leave us? Nowhere. It just means youre allowed to excuse your claim from scientific understanding, so you can feel right. But when put under scientific scrutiny, your claims fail, thus why you keep saying, "They can't be tested with science." Of course they can be scientifically tested, you just refuse to accept it because it disproves your beliefs.
give up trying to disprove 'claims' and be happy on your own path as you say, so many paths so many people etc. What exactly is the path of an atheist? I mean beyond being a good person, to me it seems the whole thing is based upon disproving the existence of the divine. Take that away you have no purpose in Atheism.
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And? ???
I’ll expound a bit for clarity. You stated “believe or burn”. I noted that demons already believe in God. Some evil men and women that openly reject God also believe in him. Yet despite their belief they’ll still spend an eternity in hell separated from God.
Why?
There is NO choice. The excuse God gave you free will is a LIE plain & simple. It's either believe or burn forever that's NOT a choice there is nothing free about exercising my will. God isn't saying " Hey if you want to believe in me cool and if not that's cool too " He's saying believe in me or I will fucking burn you forever and ever. That's an amoral proposition.
Ok, for the purposes of clarity let me ask some questions about your position. You’re arguing that God operates without a standard of morality? That God has no ability to discern between right and wrong?
You also say that there is no choice…that free will is a lie. How do you account for your opinion?
Now given that the “lie of free will” is a “plain and simple” notion, I assume you can easily expand upon that idea (beyond the blanket statement) given how fundamentally simplistic it is, correct?
How do you know the flames of hell are literal? Hell is described as punishment, eternal separation, outer darkness, wailing and gnashing, a furnace, fire, burning, the grave, like Gehenna, etc….
And if I have free will to decide to believe in God why does it come with such a heavy consequence? That's NOT an exercise of free will. It's do as I say or else. Let's not pretend I have a choice in the matter. Your God is amoral and I would rather burn in hell then worship him and his amoral teachings.
Above you said you have no choice….no free will. Although now you’re granting that proposition? Which is it?
What you’re doing is replacing “free will” with a notion of “complete autonomy” in the finite and infinite. And you’re doing so within the Christian worldview. Given you’re engaging and entering that worldview you’re bound by its tenets.
You’re a finite being and within your finite existence you’ve been mercifully granted the ability to act however you please. This life is yours to live. Despite that, your choices will still either occur in accordance with God or in opposition to him. The timelines for the two wills are identical, but the relationship between them can be an inverse because you are not coerced into any decision. This discussion alone attests to that very thing. You are not a puppet; in fact, you are the puppeteer coercing your own end. Your will functions concurrently with God’s will, but the two can remain diametrically opposed based solely upon you because God’s will is to align with you in fellowship and righteousness…..he forever wants to pull you close to him yet you desire to push him away.
God has revealed his standards, his code of morality, his laws and ultimate justice for his creation and he has every right to do so. His will for you is made plain, but yet you’re free to defy his will. You are not fully autonomous in God’s eternity and in order to be aligned with him you must choose his righteousness and that can only be achieved through him in the person of Jesus Christ.
His glory, mercy, grace, peace, love and justice are there for you…..it’s God’s greatest desire that you willfully come to him, but he allows you to determine your own fate. That “heavy consequence” is determined by you. His will is that you come unto him in humble, faithful surrender. Although, if your will differs he honors that and allows you to remain separate from him and all his divine attributes. Every goodness, every mercy, every act of peace and kindness, every happiness and joy is an extension of his divine nature. He will extract all that he is from your eternity so that you no longer have to endure all that he is, but what is left in your eternity is the hell you’ve chosen. Further, given you’ve willfully broken his laws via your sin you’ll face his judgment and your record will be judged accordingly.
I was brainwashed into the Christian wold view by my Mother. I decided the story is amoral and the existence of God described in the bible is a laughable myth. And it's ironic a Christian talking about cherry picking lol
Sounds like you have a loving mother that honors God……you’re a lucky man. I’ve heard so many that came from horrific circumstances. God blessing you yet again.
I don't believe in vicarious redemption that's amoral as well. I don't want to join God in the afterlife and if I'm punished by eternal damnation then that proves he wasn't worthy to be followed and praised.
So Jesus Christ willfully taking on the punishment for our sins is grounded in no moral standards whatsoever? Likewise, I paid someone else’s debt recently in order to help them avoid consequences and that act is also amoral, correct?
No, what you stated is a non sequitur. Further, it's just your opinion.
My position is the best one that I came to on my own after taking everything into consideration. You or God won't persuade me otherwise , when I die I have NO fear of Hell or Heaven. I treat people how I want to be treated and have lived a more moral life than 90% of the believers I know.
I don’t doubt it.
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I’ll expound a bit for clarity. You stated “believe or burn”. I noted that demons already believe in God. Some evil men and women that openly reject God also believe in him. Yet despite their belief they’ll still spend an eternity in hell separated from God.
Why?
Ok, for the purposes of clarity let me ask some questions about your position. You’re arguing that God operates without a standard of morality? That God has no ability to discern between right and wrong?
You also say that there is no choice…that free will is a lie. How do you account for your opinion?
Now given that the “lie of free will” is a “plain and simple” notion, I assume you can easily expand upon that idea (beyond the blanket statement) given how fundamentally simplistic it is, correct?
How do you know the flames of hell are literal? Hell is described as punishment, eternal separation, outer darkness, wailing and gnashing, a furnace, fire, burning, the grave, like Gehenna, etc….
Above you said you have no choice….no free will. Although now you’re granting that proposition? Which is it?
What you’re doing is replacing “free will” with a notion of “complete autonomy” in the finite and infinite. And you’re doing so within the Christian worldview. Given you’re engaging and entering that worldview you’re bound by its tenets.
You’re a finite being and within your finite existence you’ve been mercifully granted the ability to act however you please. This life is yours to live. Despite that, your choices will still either occur in accordance with God or in opposition to him. The timelines for that will are identical, but the relationship can be an inverse because you are not coerced into any decision. This discussion alone attests to that very thing. You are not a puppet; in fact, you are the puppeteer coercing your own end. Your will functions concurrently with God’s will, but the two can remain diametrically opposed based solely upon you because God’s will is to align with you in fellowship and righteousness…..he forever wants to pull you close to him yet you desire to push him away.
God has revealed his standards, his code of morality, his laws and ultimate justice for his creation and he has every right to do so. His will for you is made plain, but yet you’re free to defy his will. You are not fully autonomous in God’s eternity and in order to be aligned with him you must choose his righteousness and that can only be achieved through him in the person of Jesus Christ.
His glory, mercy, grace, peace, love and justice are there for you…..it’s God’s greatest desire that you willfully come to him, but he allows you to determine your own fate. That “heavy consequence” is determined by you. His will is that you come unto him in humble, faithful surrender. Although, if your will differs he honors that and allows you to remain separate from him and all his divine attributes. Every goodness, every mercy, every act of peace and kindness, every happiness and joy is an extension of his divine nature. He will extract all that he is from your eternity so that you no longer have to endure all that he is, but what is left in your eternity is the hell you’ve chosen. Further, given you’ve willfully broken his laws via your sin you’ll face his judgment and your record will be judged accordingly.
Sounds like you have a loving mother that honors God……you’re a lucky man. I’ve heard so many that came from horrific circumstances. God blessing you yet again.
So Jesus Christ willfully taking on the punishment for our sins is grounded in no moral standards whatsoever? Likewise, I paid someone else’s debt recently in order to help them avoid consequences and that act is also amoral?
Don’t want to join God in the afterlife….see above.
I don’t doubt it.
Jesus God Damn Christ, MOS has been typing furiously in response to the overt blasphemy littered throughout this thread. It was a case of TL:DR for me, but I guess MOS will be praying we all go to hell for our unholy provocations. I laughed when I seen that wall of text.
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give up trying to disprove 'claims' and be happy on your own path as you say, so many paths so many people etc. What exactly is the path of an atheist? I mean beyond being a good person, to me it seems the whole thing is based upon disproving the existence of the divine. Take that away you have no purpose in Atheism.
Oh boy, you know you do not have a leg to stand on when you start with the whole, "Give up trying to disprove claims." lol
Holy shit, you are the true definition of a stupid meathead lol.
Okay, one, atheism NEVER espouses a path. Atheism is a claim about one premise: Whether a God exists or not. Other than that, there is no specific doctrine or "path" associated with atheism. There are no rules, no holybooks, or no doctrines telling us how to live our life (like buddhism, islam, judaism, or christianity). So, to ask, "what is the purpose of atheism" is false, because atheism never espouses a specific path or purpose. It asks one question and one question only: Does a God exist? Thus, you are correct, there is no inherent purpose in Atheism, as Atheism never stated that there was one. The purpose of any Atheist is going to be drastically different from one person to the next because there are no specific doctrines to follow.
Hope this helps, dingbat.
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Oh boy, you know you do not have a leg to stand on when you start with the whole, "Give up trying to disprove claims." lol
Holy shit, you are the true definition of a stupid meathead lol.
Okay, one, atheism NEVER espouses a path. Atheism is a claim about one premise: Whether a God exists or not. Other than that, there is no specific doctrine or "path" associated with atheism. There are no rules, no holybooks, or no doctrines telling us how to live our life (like buddhism, islam, judaism, or christianity). So, to ask, "what is the purpose of atheism" is false, because atheism never espouses a specific path or purpose. It asks one question and one question only: Does a God exist? Thus, you are correct, there is no inherent purpose in Atheism, as Atheism never stated that there was one.
Hope this helps, dingbat.
It won't. Such is the nature of dingbats.
(https://www.fontfont.com/staticcontent/inuseimages/original/FF_Dingbats-ONVZ_Annual_Report_MwFF.png?1372188754)
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Jesus God Damn Christ, MOS has been typing furiously in response to the overt blasphemy littered throughout this thread. It was a case of TL:DR for me, but I guess MOS will be praying we all go to hell for our unholy provocations. I laughed when I seen that wall of text.
Any and all mockery is an after thought for me today. I expect it, note it and don't worry about it.....it is what it is.
I share my faith for others reading that haven't yet made a choice for Christ. If it helps someone else that does not believe come to Christ then awesome...glory to God!
I desire that no one go to hell. If I wanted you or others to go hell Radical I wouldn't respond to anything on these boards.
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It won't. Such is the nature of dingbats.
(https://www.fontfont.com/staticcontent/inuseimages/original/FF_Dingbats-ONVZ_Annual_Report_MwFF.png?1372188754)
It is strange when people ask, "What is the purpose" of atheism or being an atheist?
Um, there is no purpose. There are no doctrines or rules to follow like other religions. It asks one question, and one question only: Does a God exist?
Everything else is up for grabs, in a sense.
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Any and all mockery is an after thought for me today. I expect it, note it and don't worry about it.....it is what it is.
I share my faith for others reading that haven't yet made a choice for Christ. If it helps someone else that does not believe come to Christ then awesome...glory to God!
I desire that no one go to hell. If I wanted you or others to go hell Radical I wouldn't respond to anything on these boards.
I know MOS, I was just taking the piss. You are a good man, one of the few who is a credit to the GOD you worship. I just had to laugh as us atheists seem to be outnumbering the faithful and you hadn't visited the thread for a few pages now and then bam, huge wall of text with an essay with bullet points and individually crafted answers to all the perceived inaccuracies you made a note of.
Seriously MOS, how many atheists have you converted?
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To observe our physical world yes science does not need faith in something higher or spiritual, it does need faith in the human minds ability to accurately put together a picture of the universe though. Its just a word faith you could say confidence. I am pro science in that respect. What I dislike is when atheism uses science to prove the non existence of god,spirit,enlightenment or whatever words tickle your fancy.
The universe behaves the way it does without our minds(otherwise math would not work), we know that. It is not our minds have put together the universe, it's that our minds are the first to categorize it, systemize it and make it understandable in relatable terms. Science has extended our reach, our minds are only so useful, nature is counterintuitive (quantum mechanics) hence logic, introspection etc only work so far. Without a microscope would your mind fathom the germ world? it's non-existent to you, it's out of reach of your intellect, a tool is needed. Science is that tool.
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I know MOS, I was just taking the piss. You are a good man, one of the few who is a credit to the GOD you worship.
x2.
While I do not believe the same as MOS, I must admit, that at least he adheres--to the best of his ability--the doctrines that he puts forth.
That is a far cry from many of the so-called "theists" on this board.
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I know MOS, I was just taking the piss. You are a good man, one of the few who is a credit to the GOD you worship. I just had to laugh as us atheists seem to be outnumbering the faithful and you hadn't visited the thread for a few pages now and then bam, huge wall of text with an essay with bullet points and individually crafted answers to all the perceived inaccuracies you made a note of.
x2.
While I do not believe the same as MOS, I must admit, that at least he adheres--to the best of his ability--the doctrines that he puts forth.
That is a far cry from many of the so-called "theists" on this board.
I appreciate that....means a lot.
Seriously MOS, how many atheists have you converted?
None that I know of.
I just plant seeds, dialogue and answer questions where I'm able to.
Atheists just do the majority of the discussing, objecting, question asking, etc....so that's who I speak to most often.
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I appreciate that....means a lot.
None that I know of.
I just plant seeds, dialogue and answer questions where I'm able to.
Atheists just do the majority of the discussing, objecting, question asking, etc....so that's who I speak to most often.
I am happy to report I have never converted anybody to anything, not that I give a fuck. I see humanity in a slow downward spiral towards nothingness that cannot be stopped. Next stop. Oblivion. All aboard.
Mind you, I have always been a glass half full type of guy.
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I am happy to report I have never converted anybody to anything, not that I give a fuck. I see humanity in a slow downward spiral towards nothingness that cannot be stopped. Next stop. Oblivion. All aboard.
Mind you, I have always been a glass half full type of guy.
I don't believe we're headed anywhere good either and I'm a glass overflowing with Jesus type of guy!
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The universe behaves the way it does without our minds(otherwise math would not work), we know that. It is not our minds have put together the universe, it's that our minds are the first to categorize it, systemize it and make it understandable in relatable terms. Science has extended our reach, our minds are only so useful, nature is counterintuitive (quantum mechanics) hence logic, introspection etc only work so far. Without a microscope would your mind fathom the germ world? it's non-existent to you, it's out of reach of your intellect, a tool is needed. Science is that tool.
Without our personal superficial minds yes, without our cosmic mind no.
Spirituality is the tool to understand the source of life.
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Oh boy, you know you do not have a leg to stand on when you start with the whole, "Give up trying to disprove claims." lol
Holy shit, you are the true definition of a stupid meathead lol.
Okay, one, atheism NEVER espouses a path. Atheism is a claim about one premise: Whether a God exists or not. Other than that, there is no specific doctrine or "path" associated with atheism. There are no rules, no holybooks, or no doctrines telling us how to live our life (like buddhism, islam, judaism, or christianity). So, to ask, "what is the purpose of atheism" is false, because atheism never espouses a specific path or purpose. It asks one question and one question only: Does a God exist? Thus, you are correct, there is no inherent purpose in Atheism, as Atheism never stated that there was one. The purpose of any Atheist is going to be drastically different from one person to the next because there are no specific doctrines to follow.
Hope this helps, dingbat.
Whats the point of that quote from Nietzsche if you don't adhere to it yourself.
You are just confirming to me that your purpose with your atheism is to try and disprove, mock and ridicule the likes of myself or anyone with religious/spiritual inclinations. It gives you a sense of meaning to do so. You cannot just be, you need the security and purpose your conviction brings you.
Atheism does espouse a path though, a path without God. Thats what you and your mates are doing here.
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Whats the point of that quote from Nietzsche if you don't adhere to it yourself.
You are just confirming to me that your purpose with your atheism is to try and disprove, mock and ridicule the likes of myself or anyone with religious/spiritual inclinations. It gives you a sense of meaning to do so. You cannot just be, you need the security and purpose your conviction brings you.
Atheism does espouse a path though, a path without God. Thats what you and your mates are doing here.
I do adhere to the Nietzsche quote, which is why I said there is no ONE path of atheism. There is no doctrine, no holybook, no rules, or no morals associated with atheism. There is no one way, like in Buddhism or Christianity or Judaism.
Yes, it espouses a path without God, but Atheism does not dictate morals (ten commandments), rules, policies, codes, or ways to live, like many of the other religions do. As such, there are many paths an Atheist may take--its less decided on by a specific "book." Thus, the path is more wide open for an atheist. Even MOS agrees that there are certain doctrines a Christian must abide by. No such doctrines exist like that in Atheism.
This should not be difficult to grasp. Well, maybe for you it is. :-\ :-\
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I’ll expound a bit for clarity. You stated “believe or burn”. I noted that demons already believe in God. Some evil men and women that openly reject God also believe in him. Yet despite their belief they’ll still spend an eternity in hell separated from God.
Why?
Ok, for the purposes of clarity let me ask some questions about your position. You’re arguing that God operates without a standard of morality? That God has no ability to discern between right and wrong?
You also say that there is no choice…that free will is a lie. How do you account for your opinion?
Now given that the “lie of free will” is a “plain and simple” notion, I assume you can easily expand upon that idea (beyond the blanket statement) given how fundamentally simplistic it is, correct?
How do you know the flames of hell are literal? Hell is described as punishment, eternal separation, outer darkness, wailing and gnashing, a furnace, fire, burning, the grave, like Gehenna, etc….
Above you said you have no choice….no free will. Although now you’re granting that proposition? Which is it?
What you’re doing is replacing “free will” with a notion of “complete autonomy” in the finite and infinite. And you’re doing so within the Christian worldview. Given you’re engaging and entering that worldview you’re bound by its tenets.
You’re a finite being and within your finite existence you’ve been mercifully granted the ability to act however you please. This life is yours to live. Despite that, your choices will still either occur in accordance with God or in opposition to him. The timelines for the two wills are identical, but the relationship between them can be an inverse because you are not coerced into any decision. This discussion alone attests to that very thing. You are not a puppet; in fact, you are the puppeteer coercing your own end. Your will functions concurrently with God’s will, but the two can remain diametrically opposed based solely upon you because God’s will is to align with you in fellowship and righteousness…..he forever wants to pull you close to him yet you desire to push him away.
God has revealed his standards, his code of morality, his laws and ultimate justice for his creation and he has every right to do so. His will for you is made plain, but yet you’re free to defy his will. You are not fully autonomous in God’s eternity and in order to be aligned with him you must choose his righteousness and that can only be achieved through him in the person of Jesus Christ.
His glory, mercy, grace, peace, love and justice are there for you…..it’s God’s greatest desire that you willfully come to him, but he allows you to determine your own fate. That “heavy consequence” is determined by you. His will is that you come unto him in humble, faithful surrender. Although, if your will differs he honors that and allows you to remain separate from him and all his divine attributes. Every goodness, every mercy, every act of peace and kindness, every happiness and joy is an extension of his divine nature. He will extract all that he is from your eternity so that you no longer have to endure all that he is, but what is left in your eternity is the hell you’ve chosen. Further, given you’ve willfully broken his laws via your sin you’ll face his judgment and your record will be judged accordingly.
Sounds like you have a loving mother that honors God……you’re a lucky man. I’ve heard so many that came from horrific circumstances. God blessing you yet again.
So Jesus Christ willfully taking on the punishment for our sins is grounded in no moral standards whatsoever? Likewise, I paid someone else’s debt recently in order to help them avoid consequences and that act is also amoral, correct?
No, what you stated is a non sequitur. Further, it's just your opinion.
I don’t doubt it.
I’ll expound a bit for clarity. You stated “believe or burn”. I noted that demons already believe in God. Some evil men and women that openly reject God also believe in him. Yet despite their belief they’ll still spend an eternity in hell separated from God.
Why?
The proposition states believe or burn. If you don't not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior you're doomed to eternal damnation. I " choose " not to believe in deities so by default I'm going to be punished for it. I'm choosing to decide there is NOT sufficient evidence for any deities and will no follow what I consider to be a false doctrine and live a lie not even for Pascal's wager , just in case there is.
Ok, for the purposes of clarity let me ask some questions about your position. You’re arguing that God operates without a standard of morality? That God has no ability to discern between right and wrong?
I'm saying your God is amoral if he would punish his creations for the faults he designed them with. I'm saying a God who demands to be worshiped or else be punished is an amoral God and NOT worthy or praise or worship. A entity with the abilities to " create " an entire Universe/Multiverse and all life within would be so intelligent and sublime he would in no way shape or form demand to be worshiped or praised it's beneath such intelligence and this proves your God is a story based off of fallible men projecting their frail human egos unto their " God "
You also say that there is no choice…that free will is a lie. How do you account for your opinion?
Easy , as stated the consequence for choosing not to believe. It's like like I said " Hey you want to believe cool , and if not that's cool too. " It's analogous to the Mafia who says " You have a nice store here , shame if anything would happen to it , you pay us and we'll make sure nothing happens to it. " It's do as I say or else. This isn't a choice. God says believe in me or else I will severely punish you. This amoral.
Now given that the “lie of free will” is a “plain and simple” notion, I assume you can easily expand upon that idea (beyond the blanket statement) given how fundamentally simplistic it is, correct?
See above
How do you know the flames of hell are literal? Hell is described as punishment, eternal separation, outer darkness, wailing and gnashing, a furnace, fire, burning, the grave, like Gehenna, etc….
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There is absolutely zero proof of hell or heaven, however this is how religion describes it. " A lake of fire " where you will apparently be given an indestructible so you can feel all of the torment and pain for eternity " But God loves you "
Above you said you have no choice….no free will. Although now you’re granting that proposition? Which is it?
No free will according to the proposition of believe or else.
What you’re doing is replacing “free will” with a notion of “complete autonomy” in the finite and infinite. And you’re doing so within the Christian worldview. Given you’re engaging and entering that worldview you’re bound by its tenets.
I'm not bound by anything I'm giving you clear examples of why your religion and God are amoral and not worthy of following or believing.
You’re a finite being and within your finite existence you’ve been mercifully granted the ability to act however you please. This life is yours to live. Despite that, your choices will still either occur in accordance with God or in opposition to him. The timelines for the two wills are identical, but the relationship between them can be an inverse because you are not coerced into any decision. This discussion alone attests to that very thing. You are not a puppet; in fact, you are the puppeteer coercing your own end. Your will functions concurrently with God’s will, but the two can remain diametrically opposed based solely upon you because God’s will is to align with you in fellowship and righteousness…..he forever wants to pull you close to him yet you desire to push him away.
According to your religion humans aren't finite the soul survives death that would make you infinite and able to survive eternally. And If you believe in God you have no free will because if you choose to push him away you are punished for it , severely !! Your God is a thug and an amoral one at that.
God has revealed his standards, his code of morality, his laws and ultimate justice for his creation and he has every right to do so. His will for you is made plain, but yet you’re free to defy his will. You are not fully autonomous in God’s eternity and in order to be aligned with him you must choose his righteousness and that can only be achieved through him in the person of Jesus Christ.
He has every right to do so? ::) This is exactly why people who follow him are amoral. You're an abject slave with this mentality. I " choose " not to be in his righteousness by my own " free will " and do NOT fear any punishment for it. If there is a God described by the Bible and I'm sentenced to Hell for choosing to exercise my free will he is unworthy to worship , be praised or followed. If he punishes me because I exercised my own thought processes of critical thinking , logic , reason it proves he's unworthy and amoral
His glory, mercy, grace, peace, love and justice are there for you…..it’s God’s greatest desire that you willfully come to him, but he allows you to determine your own fate. That “heavy consequence” is determined by you. His will is that you come unto him in humble, faithful surrender. Although, if your will differs he honors that and allows you to remain separate from him and all his divine attributes. Every goodness, every mercy, every act of peace and kindness, every happiness and joy is an extension of his divine nature. He will extract all that he is from your eternity so that you no longer have to endure all that he is, but what is left in your eternity is the hell you’ve chosen. Further, given you’ve willfully broken his laws via your sin you’ll face his judgment and your record will be judged accordingly.
I don't want it I've chosen hell , he's unworthy of praise and worship. He's amoral. I turn my back on all of those great things he has in store for me for the simple reason of any deity who would punish you with eternal torture for exercising your own free will if amoral and a false God
Sounds like you have a loving mother that honors God……you’re a lucky man. I’ve heard so many that came from horrific circumstances. God blessing you yet again.
Sounds like my Mother was brainwashed by her parents and didn't have the intellectual honesty to seek out all side of the story and just believe what she was taught because she was taught it and decided to brainwash her children the same way. I however didn't brainwash my children. I let them make their own decisions when they were old enough.
I never baptized my children. My Mother once told my daughter when she was 8 that she was going to hell because she wasn't baptized. Only with religion would telling an 8 year old girl this is acceptable. This caused a HUGE rift between my Mother and I and we didn't speak for a LONG time after that. Imagine telling your 8 year old granddaughter she's going to burn forever because some " Special man didn't pour water on your head " My daughter was traumatized and that's when I let her know , God is a story in a book written by men and that hell is just a story in that book. I let my children decide for themselves if they want to believe in a deity. None of them have.
So Jesus Christ willfully taking on the punishment for our sins is grounded in no moral standards whatsoever? Likewise, I paid someone else’s debt recently in order to help them avoid consequences and that act is also amoral, correct?
No, what you stated is a non sequitur. Further, it's just your opinion.
I don’t doubt it.
Someone murders my child YOU or anyone else have NO right what so ever to take away that " sin " No one else can absolve them on my behalf. Vicarious redemption is amoral. A man rapes , beats and murders your child , Jesus says it's okay and if he's sincere and repents you will all be together in heaven. This is repugnant and disgusting but hey you're all in heaven and there is NO animosity or ill will it's all good we're all in the Kingdom of Heaven ::)
You seem like a nice person but your ideology is disgusting. You seem like a intelligent person but how you can turn a blind eye to this bullshit is beyond me but that's why they call it apologetics.
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Someone murders my child YOU or anyone else have NO right what so ever to take away that " sin " No one else can absolve them on my behalf. Vicarious redemption is amoral. A man rapes , beats and murders your child , Jesus says it's okay and if he's sincere and repents you will all be together in heaven. This is repugnant and disgusting but hey you're all in heaven and there is NO animosity or ill will it's all good we're all in the Kingdom of Heaven ::)
Yup, 100% an immoral system.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/1zva1hf.jpg)
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Whats the point of that quote from Nietzsche if you don't adhere to it yourself.
You are just confirming to me that your purpose with your atheism is to try and disprove, mock and ridicule the likes of myself or anyone with religious/spiritual inclinations. It gives you a sense of meaning to do so. You cannot just be, you need the security and purpose your conviction brings you.
Atheism does espouse a path though, a path without God. Thats what you and your mates are doing here.
We don't mock and ridicule you simple 'spiritual' folk to serve any purpose other than to ward of your voodoo juju wuwu, kind of like using garlic to ward of vampires. You don't see it because you are infected with the virus, but your odious preachings are offensive to rational people. Good thing us atheists are a tolerant bunch. ;D
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yeah your nihilism is the epitome of rationality ::)
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yeah your nihilism is the epitome of rationality ::)
It's hard to argue against the meaningless of life, is it not.
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any man when he lives in a chronic state of depletion from excessive ejaculation will feel life as meaningless.
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any man when he lives in a chronic state of depletion from excessive ejaculation will feel life as meaningless.
Sounds like a bunch of hooey to me.
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any man when he lives in a chronic state of depletion from excessive ejaculation will feel life as meaningless.
Horse Shit. If ejaculation is the pinnacle of physical pleasure, surely the man who drops as many loads as humanly possible wins. Thanks for playing though.
And just for that I am going to download some fresh porn and crack me one off, God I love meaningless. ;D
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BigHo getting lambasted in this thread.
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bunch of fucking wankers.
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bunch of fucking wankers.
BigRo, you do realise that our humble teachings are merely designed to free you from the chains that bind you. To understand something is to be liberated from it.
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how many ejaculations a day do you suggest to reach your level of nihilistic emptiness?
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how many ejaculations a day do you suggest to reach your level of nihilistic emptiness?
To reach the pinnacle of absolute nihilistic meaningless, I would suggest a minimum of 12 ejaculations a day. ;D
If this amount of meaningless is too overwhelming you can always pyramid your way up to this. Day one, 6 ejaculations, day two 7 ejaculations and so on, just add one rep each day and you too will soon experience the bliss that is utter hopelessness and meaningless. ;)
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No, this is demonstrably wrong. The whole argument of "science is a religion" and requires "faith" is wrong. Its an argument that has been debunked time and time again.
Having "faith" that gravity exists is 100% different than having "faith" that a spirit exists.
Science is based on evidence. If that evidence should be proven wrong then the conclusion is also modified in light of the new evidence.
Believing that the universe was created or just appeared out of nothing or simply always existed simply cannot be proven. Science has shown how the universe has evolve to what we have now. But how and why it came to be is a matter of faith which by definition is a belief in something that cannot be proven.
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The words FAITH and STUPID are interchangeable and one is often confused for the other.
One shouldn't conflate blind faith with faith. When a fighter says he is going to win his fight that is a matter of faith. But it is based on his perceived abilities and the abilities of his opponent. It's only after the fight can we speak in terms of provable facts.
When one claims that there is a creator or that the universe appeared out of nothing or just was always there then it is based on their perception and likelihood and what makes more sense to them in each respective scenarios. But it is still faith simply because neither can be proven.
It's not like one just tosses a coin to determine how the universe came to being.
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Oh boy, you know you do not have a leg to stand on when you start with the whole, "Give up trying to disprove claims." lol
Holy shit, you are the true definition of a stupid meathead lol.
Okay, one, atheism NEVER espouses a path. Atheism is a claim about one premise: Whether a God exists or not. Other than that, there is no specific doctrine or "path" associated with atheism. There are no rules, no holybooks, or no doctrines telling us how to live our life (like buddhism, islam, judaism, or christianity). So, to ask, "what is the purpose of atheism" is false, because atheism never espouses a specific path or purpose. It asks one question and one question only: Does a God exist? Thus, you are correct, there is no inherent purpose in Atheism, as Atheism never stated that there was one. The purpose of any Atheist is going to be drastically different from one person to the next because there are no specific doctrines to follow.
Hope this helps, dingbat.
I don't think this is precise. The purpose of atheism, as with all ideologies, is to tell the truth. What they believe is true. It has no purpose in so far that, unlike religion, it doesn't tell you how you should live your life. That is a separated issue. It takes no position, in so far as it is base on the nonexistence of God, on ethical and moral positions. That's a whole other ball game.
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Someone murders my child YOU or anyone else have NO right what so ever to take away that " sin " No one else can absolve them on my behalf. Vicarious redemption is amoral. A man rapes , beats and murders your child , Jesus says it's okay and if he's sincere and repents you will all be together in heaven. This is repugnant and disgusting but hey you're all in heaven and there is NO animosity or ill will it's all good we're all in the Kingdom of Heaven ::)
Yup, 100% an immoral system.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/1zva1hf.jpg)
This is something every Christian should struggle with.
Christians are more concerned with belief. Belief in Christ. You cannot "earn" your way into Heaven or that would have made Jesus' death on the cross meaningless. Judaism is more based on behavior.
You are judged by your deeds in this life. Just like how we judge others in this world.
Jesus died on the cross so our sins can be forgiven. That is very noble. But why? Why this way? Why did his only son have to die before we can be forgiven? Be forgiven for a sin that we personally didn't commit.
No Christian should be too comfortable in their beliefs. It's not enough to say that we are just too stupid or shallow to understand God. Not if we are bearing the consequences and innocent people are suffering. Not if we live in a world, a world that we did not choose to be in, that contains far more bad/evil than good. A state that was already known before hand by an omniscience and omnipotent being that foresaw this and yet still created it as such.
A Christian should struggle daily with these issues.
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I don't think this is precise. The purpose of atheism, as with all ideologies, is to tell the truth. What they believe is true. It has no purpose in so far that, unlike religion, it doesn't tell you how you should live your life. That is a separated issue. It takes no position, in so far as it is base on the nonexistence of God, on ethical and moral positions. That's a whole other ball game.
Yes, this is a good answer. Atheism's only genuine concern is whether it is true there is a creator. Because atheists tend to be reasonable, rational people who don't blindly swallow any old nonsense, they recognise there is ZERO EVIDENCE for a creator and therefore don't support the idea. For this reason they find it impossible to CHOOSE to have FAITH, considering the overwhelming lack of evidence. The only way such a person could choose to have faith is if they desperately needed to believe in a higher power to compensate for something they lack within in their own psyche. In other words, it makes them feel good to believe in a fairy tale even though it is illogical and not one ounce of evidence exists to support such wishful thinking.
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This is something every Christian should struggle with.
Christians are more concerned with belief. Belief in Christ. You cannot "earn" your way into Heaven or that would have made Jesus' death on the cross meaningless. Judaism is more based on behavior.
You are judged by your deeds in this life. Just like how we judge others in this world.
Jesus died on the cross so our sins can be forgiven. That is very noble. But why? Why this way? Why did his only son have to die before we can be forgiven? Be forgiven for a sin that we personally didn't commit.
No Christian should be too comfortable in their beliefs. It's not enough to say that we are just too stupid or shallow to understand God. Not if we are bearing the consequences and innocent people are suffering. Not if we live in a world, a world that we did not choose to be in, that contains far more bad/evil than good. A state that was already known before hand by an omniscience and omnipotent being that foresaw this and yet still created it as such.
A Christian should struggle daily with these issues.
If that was true then we would have destroyed life on earth by now. The evil makes the most noise and gets on the news.
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If that was true then we would have destroyed life on earth by now. The evil makes the most noise and gets on the news.
I don't understand how you come to this conclusion. Evil and bad is not synonymous with destruction. Sure evil/bad can cause destruction, e.g., the Holocaust. But good can also cause destruction. I consider dropping the A bomb on Japan a good thing as it ended the war.
But I tell you what, since I believe bad out weighs the good. Meaning that there is not enough good in this world to make up or nullify that bad lets go tit for tat. I present something I consider bad/evil and you present something that you think nullifies this evil.
Like for instance, say some tragedy happens in a person's life but due to that tragedy he becomes a better person and does more good in the world than he would have if it wasn't for this tragedy. The good done outweighed the bad done.
Tell you what. I'll go first. You show me something so good in this world that nullifies this evil.
http://shoebat.com/2015/02/03/watch-horrific-video-isis-burning-pow-jordanian-pilot/
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I wont play this game with you. Like I said the evils in our world are more shocking and convincing than the positive. That why they make the news.
If it were not for the presence of the divine, evil would have destroyed all life on earth.
I consider dropping the nuclear bomb on Japan cowardice. They were afraid to fight man o man with the crazy Japs.
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I wont play this game with you. Like I said the evils in our world are more shocking and convincing than the positive. That why they make the news.
If it were not for the presence of the divine, evil would have destroyed all life on earth.
I consider dropping the nuclear bomb on Japan cowardice. They were afraid to fight man o man with the crazy Japs.
It's not a game, my friend. It's real. Very real. And you diminish the concept of good and evil and the role it plays in this world. A world where real people suffer real pain and injustice. You will not make the case that good outweighs evil in this world because you know you will lose. There is nothing you can trade or offer to make up, justify, or nullify the burning alive of another human being. Nothing.
So you act like it doesn't matter. You just say the world would be destroyed if there were more bad/evil in the world than good offering no argument or evidence for it.
And the mission in war is to win. To win at all costs. The whole concept of a fair fight, fighting man for man, plays no role in war. No role at all. There are very real consequence to losing a war. The war if fought to be won. And won at all costs.
“There were young knights among them who had never been present at a stricken field. Some could not look upon it and some could not speak, and they held themselves apart from the others who were cutting down the prisoners at My Lord’s orders, for the prisoners were a body too numerous to be guarded by those of us who were left.
Then Jean de Rye, an aged knight of Burgundy who had been sore wounded in the battle, rode up to the group of young knights and said: ‘Are ye maidens with your downcast eyes? Look well upon it. See all of it. Close your eyes to nothing. For a battle is fought to be won. And it is this that happens if you lose.’”
- Jean Froissart, Chronicles, (c. 1332-c. 1405)
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It's not a game, my friend. It's real. Very real. And you diminish the concept of good and evil and the role it plays in this world. A world where real people suffer real pain and injustice. You will not make the case that good outweighs evil in this world because you know you will lose. There is nothing you can trade or offer to make up, justify, or nullify the burning alive of another human being. Nothing.
So you act like it doesn't matter. You just say the world would be destroyed if there were more bad/evil in the world than good offering no argument or evidence for it.
And the mission in war is to win. To win at all costs. The whole concept of a fair fight, fighting man for man, plays no role in war. No role at all. There are very real consequence to losing a war. The war if fought to be won. And won at all costs.
“There were young knights among them who had never been present at a stricken field. Some could not look upon it and some could not speak, and they held themselves apart from the others who were cutting down the prisoners at My Lord’s orders, for the prisoners were a body too numerous to be guarded by those of us who were left.
Then Jean de Rye, an aged knight of Burgundy who had been sore wounded in the battle, rode up to the group of young knights and said: ‘Are ye maidens with your downcast eyes? Look well upon it. See all of it. Close your eyes to nothing. For a battle is fought to be won. And it is this that happens if you lose.’”
- Jean Froissart, Chronicles, (c. 1332-c. 1405)
It is a game, a game of who is right and who is wrong. Never a good basis for sound discussion. You continue to put forth shocking examples and think they are evidence enough that the bad outweighs the good in this world. If you look for goodness you will find it in your daily life and all over the world. Perhaps when you look within all you see is darkness therefore conclude humans are inherently sinful through and through.
You talk with conviction about what the essence of war is but your wrong. Indeed it sounds like your a mouthpiece for the very evil we talk about. So you think Isis methods are justifiable then?
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It is a game, a game of who is right and who is wrong. Never a good basis for sound discussion. You continue to put forth shocking examples and think they are evidence enough that the bad outweighs the good in this world. If you look for goodness you will find it in your daily life and all over the world. Perhaps when you look within all you see is darkness therefore conclude humans are inherently sinful through and through.
You talk with conviction about what the essence of war is but your wrong. Indeed it sounds like your a mouthpiece for the very evil we talk about. So you think Isis methods are justifiable then?
Right and wrong is not game.
A mouth piece for even because anybody engaged in war seeks to win?
I think ISIS methods are justifiable when I use them as an example of evil?
Ro, I think you are a good guy and in person we would get along fine. But you try to present yourself as a spiritual person and more enlightened and deeper than the rest of us pedestrian intellects.
But I've read your debates on various subjects on this board and you are not a logical thinker. You pull outrageous conclusions and non sequiturs out of thin air. Whereas what you take for intellectual and spiritual depth, it comes across more as someone who has overly indulge in hallucinogenic compounds.
I suggest you just dismiss us as beneath your level of enlightenment
and quietly and dignifyingly exit this thread.
Like I said, I like you, so I will not argue with you and just conclude that we have a different perspective and world view of life, the universe and everything (apologises to Douglas Adams).
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Right and wrong is not game.
Its the game we play here on getbig where one upsmanship is the nature of conversation. Getbiggers believe in the dominate or be dominated modus operandi.
A mouth piece for even because anybody engaged in war seeks to win?
I take it you mean Evil, you support the view that any means necessary are ok in warfare to get the job done, even if it means nuking thousands of innocents. I thought you were a religious person who had belief in God, goodnesss, justice, virtue.
I think ISIS methods are justifiable when I use them as an example of evil?
Isis feels itself to be at war with the heathens, you support the view that all methods can be used to achieve ones aims in war since warfare is devoid of virtue.
Ro, I think you are a good guy and in person we would get along fine. But you try to present yourself as a spiritual person and more enlightened and deeper than the rest of us pedestrian intellects.
I do not try to present myself as something I am not. Nor do I try and come off as holier or higher than others to bolster my sense of self.
But I've read your debates on various subjects on this board and you are not a logical thinker. You pull outrageous conclusions and non sequiturs out of thin air. Whereas what you take for intellectual and spiritual depth, it comes across more as someone who has overly indulge in hallucinogenic compounds.
I don't feel it necessary to subscribe to some consensus of what logical is. I am an alternative thinker here on getbig, yet there would be concord with my views in other circles. I do not overly indulge in sacred plant medicines.
I suggest you just dismiss us as beneath your level of enlightenment
and quietly and dignifyingly exit this thread.
I enjoy debate so why should I
Like I said, I like you, so I will not argue with you and just conclude that we have a different perspective and world view of life, the universe and everything (apologises to Douglas Adams).
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In the end, if you adhere to the 10 commandments (which is just a set of rules for good living) and when you die there is nothing, what is the real problem with that? If you lived your whole life not being a dick, does it really matter whether or not you go to Heaven or Hell? Isn't it just good enough to think that you didn't piss people off, and did not contribute to making their brief time on this planet terrible?
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I don't think this is precise. The purpose of atheism, as with all ideologies, is to tell the truth. What they believe is true. It has no purpose in so far that, unlike religion, it doesn't tell you how you should live your life. That is a separated issue. It takes no position, in so far as it is base on the nonexistence of God, on ethical and moral positions. That's a whole other ball game.
To tell the truth about one question and one question only. Atheism does not espouse any other ideology.
That is what I said.
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To tell the truth about one question and one question only. Atheism does not espouse any other ideology.
That is what I said.
I've dug in on this a bit before and in general I agree with this.
The only thing that I would say is that some of the largest atheist organization due have codes, creeds, etc...."aims and principles"
I've seen Ricky Gervais make this same comment in a number of interviews, but it's just not universally applicable for all atheists.
For example, The Atheist Community of Austin is a big atheist organization that has hosted the National Atheist Conference in 2013 and has broadcasted the Atheist Experience show for many, many years now both on public television and now youtube.
http://www.atheist-community.org/library/positions/ (http://www.atheist-community.org/library/positions/)
They profess the following beliefs or "position statements" as they prefer:
Position Statements
The Atheist Community of Austin is a non-profit, educational organization involved in community outreach and activism. Our various media outreach programs and activities afford us the opportunity to speak out on a number of issues. Atheism is misunderstood and misrepresented and we feel it is important that our community has official, public positions on a number of issues.
Atheism is a singular position about the existence of a god or gods and the beliefs of individual atheists on other issues are diverse. These statements represent the official positions of this organization and do not represent the position of all atheists or ACA members. Acceptance of these positions is not required for membership in the ACA.
Primary Positions
Church-State Separation
The ACA understands:
Article VI of the United States Constitution prohibits any religious test for public office
The First Amendment necessarily requires that our government remain neutral with regard to religion
The Fourteenth Amendment extends amendments to the US Constitution to the state governments
We believe that this neutral position ensures that no religion receives preferential treatment over another religion, or the lack of religion.
We support the right of each individual to believe or disbelieve as they choose. We support the right of individuals to practice their religious beliefs to the extent that such practice does not inhibit or infringe upon the rights and freedoms of others.
Human Rights
The ACA opposes legislation that seeks to discriminate against individuals on the basis of sex, race, religious belief, sexual orientation or other status. We believe that laws and regulations which limit or deny freedoms and rights must have a valid, secular foundation.
Secondary Positions
The ACA considers the following positions to be logical extensions of our primary position statements.
Religious Displays
The ACA believes that religious displays on public property violate the establishment clause of the First Amendment and therefore should be banned. These displays represent favoritism toward a particular religion or group of religions and serve as an implicit endorsement. Additionally, they represent a divisive mechanism which marginalizes that segment of the population, religious or not, which does not subscribe to the represented beliefs.
The ACA believes that religious messages included in anthems, mottos and pledges are also violations of the First Amendment.
Creationism and Intelligent Design
Creationism is the religious assertion that life on Earth was created by a supernatural entity. While we support the right of any individual to hold this belief, it is unsupported by science, and the Supreme Court of the United States has rightly determined that creationism violates the "Lemon Test." As such, creationism constitutes promotion of religion and cannot be taught in public schools.
Intelligent Design is the assertion that the current theory of evolution and natural selection is insufficient to properly explain the complexity of life on Earth. While that objection may be reasonable, Intelligent Design proponents advance the additional claim that the correct explanation must include intervention by an intelligent entity. While they staunchly refuse to identify this entity, the general view among most advocates is that this entity is "God".
The Intelligent Design movement has been unable to support their assertions with scientific evidence and has often been called "Creationism in a lab coat" or "Creationism in disguise".
The ACA supports the various legal rulings which prohibit teaching these unproven assertions and religious opinions in public school science classes.
Public Education
The ACA believes that public education is absolutely essential to the future welfare of our nation, and the world. We support efforts to improve the quality of the public education by:
Encouraging the development of critical thinking skills
Instilling appreciation for the arts and humanities
Maintaining the integrity of science
Providing a safe, healthy and productive learning environment
As a government institution which serves citizens of many different social, economic and religious backgrounds, public education must remain neutral with regard to religion.
We believe that we must strive to provide all students with the equal opportunity to receive a robust and diverse education.
Reproductive Rights
The ACA holds that individual human rights necessarily include the premise of individual sovereignty with regard to decisions that affect one's person. In support of this premise, the ACA supports:
The right of all consenting adults, of all sexual preferences, to responsibly manage their own sexual activities without unnecessary interference or restriction
Robust and properly informative education regarding human sexuality, birth control, family planning, sexually transmitted disease and pregnancy termination
The ACA strongly opposes "abstinence-only" sex education. Abstinence-only sex education is a naive concept which ignores the reality of human sexuality and fails to properly educate individuals; often resulting in increased rates of unwanted pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease.
The ACA strongly opposes the "Global Gag Rule", and any similar legislation or restrictions which seeks to limit or provide preferential funding to health organizations based on the inclusion of abortion and abortion-education services in their programs. These actions represent the worst sort of manipulation; forcing clinics to jeopardize the health of many patients in order to receive much needed funding.
Madalyn Murray O'Hair who once resided in Austin, Texas founded and presided over the American Atheists organization. They profess the following beliefs or "Aims and Principles" as they prefer:
http://atheists.org/about-us/aims-and-purposes (http://atheists.org/about-us/aims-and-purposes)
AIMS AND PRINCIPLES
American Atheists, Inc. is a nonprofit, nonpolitical, educational organization dedicated to the complete and absolute separation of state and church, accepting the explanation of Thomas Jefferson that the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States was meant to create a "wall of separation" between state and church.
American Atheists, Inc., is organized
to stimulate and promote freedom of thought and inquiry concerning religious beliefs, creeds, dogmas, tenets, rituals, and practices;
to collect and disseminate information, data, and literature on all religions and promote a more thorough understanding of them, their origins, and their histories;
to advocate, labor for, and promote in all lawful ways the complete and absolute separation of state and church;
to advocate, labor for, and promote in all lawful ways the establishment and maintenance of a thoroughly secular system of education available to all;
to encourage the development and public acceptance of a humane ethical system stressing the mutual sympathy, understanding, and interdependence of all people and the corresponding responsibility of each individual in relation to society;
to develop and propagate a social philosophy in which humankind is central and must itself be the source of strength, progress, and ideals for the well-being and happiness of humanity;
to promote the study of the arts and sciences and of all problems affecting the maintenance, perpetuation, and enrichment of human (and other) life;
to engage in such social, educational, legal, and cultural activity as will be useful and beneficial to the members of American Atheists and to society as a whole.
Atheism may be defined as the mental attitude which unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.
Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind -- finding their resources within themselves -- can and must create their own destiny. Materialism restores dignity and intellectual integrity to humanity. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism's "faith" is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment which is in its very essence life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited.
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I've dug in on this a bit before and in general I agree with this.
The only thing that I would say is that some of the largest atheist organization due have codes, creeds, etc...."aims and principles"
I still do not agree, and I am not referring to the few large organization. In my opinion, you can't make the claim that atheists espouse a certain way to live based on a few organizations. That is much different than millions, if not billions of people who pretty much follow the same exact book (bible). That means any crackpot atheist with a sign on a streetcorner can espouse a way to live. That is much different than having a book, a place of worship, where all people congregate and agree on a specific way of living (christianity). Atheism does not have that. If these organizations are espousing a way to live, its very "loosely."
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I still do not agree, and I am not referring to the few large organization. In my opinion, you can't make the claim that atheists espouse a certain way to live based on a few organizations. That is much different than millions, if not billions of people who pretty much follow the same exact book (bible). That means any crackpot atheist with a sign on a streetcorner can espouse a way to live. That is much different than having a book, a place of worship, where all people congregate and agree on a specific way of living (christianity). Atheism does not have that. If these organizations are espousing a way to live, its very "loosely."
I agree with you. I think the majority of atheists have a "do whatever you want" philosophy with the caveat that "doing whatever you want" doesn't cause God and religion to mix into their lives. Difficulty is that little caveat is enormously impacting to billions and billions. I grasp the situation, but it's just not as simple as the atheist saying "look, we just have no belief in gods in our lives....we are just without God....that' it....simple. Life however you want provided you have no god stuff mix or interfere with my life in anyway whatsoever." That's an impossible proposition for many.
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An atheist saying they live without God is like a fish saying they live without water :D
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I agree with you. I think the majority of atheists have a "do whatever you want" philosophy with the caveat that "doing whatever you want" doesn't cause God and religion to mix into their lives. Difficulty is that little caveat is enormously impacting to billions and billions. I grasp the situation, but it's just not as simple as the atheist saying "look, we just have no belief in gods in our lives....we are just without God....that' it.....simple. Life however you want provided you have no god stuff mix or interfere with my life in anyway whatsoever." That's an impossible proposition for many.
Well, yes, in a perfect world, religion and God would be kept out of my life, especially in the areas of state and federal sectors.
For me, I do not care that I have to drive passed a church that is down the block from my house. I do not want it removed. When atheists say they want religion and God out of their lives, they are not referring to having all churches removed. Its impossible to have religion completely removed from my life, since I have to drive passed places of worship, and attend funeral or weddings, that often take place in places of worship.
When I say I do not want God in my life, I mean I do not want to walk into a NYC public school and see a cross hanging on the wall. I do not want to enter into a public college and seeing the a picture of JC. I dont want random people coming up to me preaching, otherwise I will tell them politely to get out of my face. When atheists say they dont want God in their lives, they are more referring to as it exists on state and federal places. There have been MANY cases where religious people have tried to place religious artifacts on state or federal grounds. Guess what? The Supreme Court had them removed. To me, that is not having religion in my life. From a personal perspective, religion is not in my life whatsoever. From a societal perspective, of course it is. There is no way of getting around it. I will take what I can get.
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Without our personal superficial minds yes, without our cosmic mind no.
Spirituality is the tool to understand the source of life.
you know the source of life?
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you know the source of life?
lol. Anyone who claims to have answers to such big questions, you just have to laugh at them. Pat them on the head, and be on your way.
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Without our personal superficial minds yes, without our cosmic mind no.
Spirituality Psychedelic drugs are the tool to explore the source of life.
Fixed
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I wont play this game with you. Like I said the evils in our world are more shocking and convincing than the positive. That why they make the news.
If it were not for the presence of the divine, evil would have destroyed all life on earth.
I consider dropping the nuclear bomb on Japan cowardice. They were afraid to fight man o man with the crazy Japs.
Of course, because war is a bigger peepee contest. Childish reasoning.
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The only reason atheists are trying to convert the religious is because the religious have become so dangerous and offensive. Religious cultures have monopolised the modern world and made life difficult for the atheist, and at times very dangerous. It is no wonder the atheists are fighting back. Not to mention how intolerable it is for intelligent and reasonable people to live amongst the majority who are morons. The absurdity of it all for the intelligent person is so overwhelming that at times they cannot hold their tongue. The wiser one becomes the harder it is to tolerate fools, of which their is an abundance of in this world. Religion makes people stupid and is like a lightning rod for fools, reasoning and science make individuals smarter, but more intolerant of idiots.(aka religious folk)
Its rather sad that even with all of that knowledge you have obtained - LOL - you are still a failure. How is that possible? I guess being dumb and successful is my lot in life - :( In fact I have quite a few wealthy morons as friends. Ironically - I bet we all employ genius atheists.. We better be careful or they will use all that brain power to put us in our places - ;D
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Fixed
both, taken by with a weak scattered mind they can be detrimental.
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you know the source of life?
the origin of all that exists, the point of oneness out of which multiplicity arises is the very essence of who we are. I will make no personal statements. All the wisdom traditions say this.
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both, taken by with a weak scattered mind they can be detrimental.
EXACTLY - when ones spirit and fortitude is weak they cannot risk faith. Most atheists that I have encountered are simply "have nots" who are bitter because of their shortcomings. The easiest thing to do is waste all day every day pretending to be an intellect online. These guys typically LOVE fantasy genre movies (Beowulf) because they can pretend that they are great and that the reality of the jock kicking their ass in high school wasn't REAL. I was never cruel to the weak - and in fact didn't tolerate it at my school. Sadly - those guys grow up to be oddballs. Of course immediately they attempt to diffuse things by attempting to be clever - but deep inside they remember.
I don't understand how others don't find it odd that some weirdos live their little fantasy lives on the internet. It actually means something for them to "own minds" - lol.. That sounds so pathetic. I don't get off on it - and ABSOLUTELY do not see my employees this way - but if you are going to "own" someone to feel powerful then actually OWN them...
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Sorry for long reply, but I have the majority of responses I've written previously at my fingertips so I can often copy and paste.
The proposition states believe or burn. If you don't not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior you're doomed to eternal damnation. I " choose " not to believe in deities so by default I'm going to be punished for it. I'm choosing to decide there is NOT sufficient evidence for any deities and will no follow what I consider to be a false doctrine and live a lie not even for Pascal's wager , just in case there is.
Again, you’ve eliminated sin entirely from the discussion. You’ve removed any personal accountability or responsibility for breaking God’s law. In one breathe you simply say there is no God and another you acknowledge the existence of God but call him amoral. You define the proposition as “believe or burn”, but that isn’t correct. The reality is that Jesus Christ came as the incarnate son of God here on earth and live and died as a blameless, sinless man so that your sins could be paid for. If folks never broke God’s law there would be no need for Christ’s act on Calvary’s cross. You take the convenient atheist position of “believe or burn” that ignores sin (and somehow absolves you of sin at the same time) and then twist the situation into a heinous, evil dictatorial stance by God. “Believe and worship me or burn in hell!! MUAH-HAH-HAH!!!” [cue thunder, lightning, roaring seas, earthquakes and expressions of terror]. This is an invention, not the Christian worldview.
The only idea that is absolutely correct concerning your absolute statement of “NOT sufficient evidence” is that it is absolutely subjective. You are dialoguing with evidence for God right now. The reality of who he is is being shared with you currently. It isn’t up to me to convince you and we can speak about logic, archeological findings, history of Jesus, scripture, personal revelations of God, etc….. In the end it’s up to you to determine if you want to know the reality of God in your life. When you approach God you come to him according to his terms as laid out in scripture. I can certainly assist with that, but I can only lead a horse to water.
God’s law and knowledge of him is already imprinted upon you, but folks forcibly suppress that and often opt to endlessly argue about why they are not going to seek him on his terms in scripture….a lifetime of excuses is often sought to avoid minutes of humble, private personal prayer. Instead folks spend a lifetime suppressing and attempting to convince themselves that God isn’t real or that he's unjust (in our case "amoral"). It’s only about God that people do such things. Very few people spend lifetimes passionately arguing about things that are truly “fairytales and myths”. Those things are dismissed almost instantly, but not God. No, there’s an endless pursuit to either live for God or deny God and despite existing in either camp the pursuit never ends. Many, many folks that deny God have devoted their lives to studying his word, debating his word, debating his church, writing books about him and all because “there is no God”. I find that very interesting.
I'm saying your God is amoral if he would punish his creations for the faults he designed them with. I'm saying a God who demands to be worshiped or else be punished is an amoral God and NOT worthy or praise or worship. A entity with the abilities to " create " an entire Universe/Multiverse and all life within would be so intelligent and sublime he would in no way shape or form demand to be worshiped or praised it's beneath such intelligence and this proves your God is a story based off of fallible men projecting their frail human egos unto their " God "
No, God demands that in order to exist with him that you must forgo of your sin and be brought into righteousness. God is worthy of worship and those that desire for God has worship and praise often pouring out of them.....I do. What appears designed into each of is a desire to worship and praise. Yes, we have a proclivity for sin in us, but not a preprogrammed set of sins to commit….simply not the case.
What is worship though?
Simply put, God is the essence of righteousness….the bar…..the creator…..the standard…..the law. He is the greatest possible being there is, was and ever will be.
God created us in his divine image (a generous act on his part) and defined for us two important roles within his creation: one, a kingly role in which we govern over his creation; two, a priest type role in which we walk in faithful service with God and surrender to his will for our lives so that others may draw close to him as well. The goodness of God flows to his creation and thereby becomes an extension of his church…..we are equipped with his attributes.
To worship God means to be included in his existence and to acknowledge his position in the order of all things and to also understand our role within his creation. We are creatures that literally overflow with worship for things we love and admire and cherish most……worship and praise pours out of us. God doesn’t need our worship though….his existence is not contingent upon it, but he created us so that we may enter into fellowship with him and engage in praise in worship for which is absolutely worthy. As part of the created order we give praise for those things we value the most in life. Believers enjoy the very presence of God and he enjoys ours as well….it’s a relationship. Given his exalted status when we are given his approval it elicits our praise and worship….we almost can’t help it at times LOL.
As C.S. Lewis notes in reference to praise and worship:
“But the most obvious fact about praise – whether of God or anything – strangely escaped me. I thought of it in terms of compliment, approval, or the giving of honour. I had never noticed that all enjoyment spontaneously overflows into praise unless . . . shyness or the fear of boring others is deliberately brought in to check it. The world rings with praise – lovers praising their mistresses [Romeo praising Juliet and vice versa], readers their favourite poet, walkers praising the countryside, players praising their favourite game – praise of weather, wines, dishes, actors, motors, horses, colleges, countries, historical personages, children, flowers, mountains, rare stamps, rare beetles, even sometimes politicians or scholars. . . . Except where intolerably adverse circumstances interfere, praise almost seems to be inner health made audible. . . . I had not noticed either that just as men spontaneously praise whatever they value, so they spontaneously urge us to join them in praising it: 'Isn't she lovely? Wasn't it glorious? Don't you think that magnificent?' The Psalmists in telling everyone to praise God are doing what all men do when they speak of what they care about. My whole, more general, difficulty about the praise of God depended on my absurdly denying to us, as regards the supremely Valuable, what we delight to do, what indeed we can't help doing, about everything else we value.”
Further the idea of sin built into for which we’re punished regardless is fallacious. Our proof is children.
When I read about King David’s child with Bathsheba passing away and David suggesting that as a believer he would he see his child again in God’s kingdom it affirmed for me the innocence of children and others with disabilities that prevent them from making an honest choice about sin and Christ in their lives. They don’t need salvation because being saved by grace through faith in Christ means we are saved from the wrath/judgment of God. The innocents need not fear God’s wrath for they are without blame or need for judgment.
“Jesus called a little child to him and put the child among them. Then he said, ‘I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven. So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.’”
Christ also indicated how severely those that cause the children (the little ones) to fall into sin would be judged. The children are lead into sin and out of innocence.
As believers in Christ we are saved by grace through faith and thereby justified and deemed righteous….like the innocents who are inherently righteous we become like the them through Christ. Anyone who comes to God and desires forgivenessness and righteousness will be deemed as such.
Easy , as stated the consequence for choosing not to believe. It's like like I said " Hey you want to believe cool , and if not that's cool too. " It's analogous to the Mafia who says " You have a nice store here , shame if anything would happen to it , you pay us and we'll make sure nothing happens to it. " It's do as I say or else. This isn't a choice. God says believe in me or else I will severely punish you. This amoral.
Above I illustrated your depiction of God as an evil dictator and here you reference him as some Godfather, Al Capone, Jon Gotti, Mafioso type…..not the case….see above.
There is absolutely zero proof of hell or heaven, however this is how religion describes it. " A lake of fire " where you will apparently be given an indestructible so you can feel all of the torment and pain for eternity " But God loves you "
There’s proof of everything and it resides in the Holy Spirit of God. Those that have come into humble, surrender before God and accept what Christ did for them on Calvary’s cross and proclaim him as savior and Lord have within them the tangible presence of the Holy Spirit….it’s undeniable for believers. That presence alone confirms the whole of scripture, but you only experience the revelation of God in two ways: abiding by God’s terms in scripture or a special revelation of God’s choosing (rare).
There’s all sorts of proof for the bible and Jesus Christ, but none of it matters if you remain in a state of suppression and rejection. God desires for you to desire him. The gateway to him is open you must be willing to walk through and that narrow gate is Jesus Christ.
Now previously I asked how you know the flames of hell are literal? I’ll keep that question open for now.
The “lake of fire” is found only in the book of Revelation. This is an incredibly prophetic book and it’s imagery is both vivid and often difficult to understand. The “lake of fire” is also referred as the “second death” which is an eternal separation from God and all his divine attributes. Despite the vivid imagery in these passages the interpretation cannot be said to be completely literal. I certainly can’t say that.
According to your religion humans aren't finite the soul survives death that would make you infinite and able to survive eternally. And If you believe in God you have no free will because if you choose to push him away you are punished for it , severely !! Your God is a thug and an amoral one at that.
Again, I already noted that you attempting to subvert the concept of "free will" with a flawed notion of “complete autonomy”. It isn’t the same thing. Within our finite existence we have the ability to do whatever we please, but we do have some primary choices to make about our sin and relationship with Christ. Reason being is that when we exit this life we enter God’s eternity and we are ……ah, I said all this in my previous reply LOL…..see that.
He has every right to do so? ::) This is exactly why people who follow him are amoral. You're an abject slave with this mentality. I " choose " not to be in his righteousness by my own " free will " and do NOT fear any punishment for it. If there is a God described by the Bible and I'm sentenced to Hell for choosing to exercise my free will he is unworthy to worship , be praised or followed. If he punishes me because I exercised my own thought processes of critical thinking , logic , reason it proves he's unworthy and amoral
I understand, you want a consequence free existence with total autonomy.
I don't want it I've chosen hell , he's unworthy of praise and worship. He's amoral. I turn my back on all of those great things he has in store for me for the simple reason of any deity who would punish you with eternal torture for exercising your own free will if amoral and a false God
I understand.
Sounds like my Mother was brainwashed by her parents and didn't have the intellectual honesty to seek out all side of the story and just believe what she was taught because she was taught it and decided to brainwash her children the same way. I however didn't brainwash my children. I let them make their own decisions when they were old enough.
I understand.
I never baptized my children. My Mother once told my daughter when she was 8 that she was going to hell because she wasn't baptized. Only with religion would telling an 8 year old girl this is acceptable. This caused a HUGE rift between my Mother and I and we didn't speak for a LONG time after that. Imagine telling your 8 year old granddaughter she's going to burn forever because some " Special man didn't pour water on your head " My daughter was traumatized and that's when I let her know , God is a story in a book written by men and that hell is just a story in that book. I let my children decide for themselves if they want to believe in a deity. None of them have.
Your mother approached that situation poorly and I’m sorry about that. I would never confront a child of that age with the doctrine of hell. It’s unnecessary for a child to discuss those kinds of topics that can’t fully grasp. That was a poor choice.
Someone murders my child YOU or anyone else have NO right what so ever to take away that " sin " No one else can absolve them on my behalf. Vicarious redemption is amoral. A man rapes , beats and murders your child , Jesus says it's okay and if he's sincere and repents you will all be together in heaven. This is repugnant and disgusting but hey you're all in heaven and there is NO animosity or ill will it's all good we're all in the Kingdom of Heaven ::)
I've seen my best friend deny God because of the loss of his grandmother (who served as his mother for most of his youth). I've seen families torn apart because of the loss of loved ones. I've seen men and women of God leave their faith behind when death comes in their lives. My grandmother lost my grandfather 21 years ago and to this day she talks about him and misses him dearly every single day and questions why God took him like he did.
I've also seen the best come out of folks in moments of utter despair.
I watched my sister tragically lose her fiance 4 years ago. Great guy....strong, fit, growing career and then one evening on a stair climber at the gym his heart stopped and he died almost instantly. It was later discovered he had an undiagnosed heart condition since birth (doctors believe) and the Lord took him home. My sister was obliterated, but she grew in her faith because of it....she actually drew closer to God in the process. Since that time she's undertaken a number of charitable events in his name and keeps contact with his family. She’s witnessed to members of my family and others and has become a strong, strong woman because of the loss. Just two weeks ago she announced her engagement to a new man in her life.....another terrific man. It's a blessing seeing all my sisters married to good men that love them and their families. My sister will always remember the man she lost tragically and we won't know exactly why the Lord called him home like he did, but I can say that he's now with his Lord and savior and his memory and my sister's testimony has touched so many over the last 4 years.
Another story (and I've shared this before) involves a coworker of my wife....awesome story!! My wife's coworker lost her baby granddaughter tragically in an accident caused by her son (the child's uncle). The child's mother was devastated as was her brother who was responsible for the accident, but in a moment of sheer grace and love the mother completely forgave her brother. While on their knees, within a private moment of utter grace and despair and forgiveness, my wife's coworker snapped a picture of the two of them on their knees in an embrace in the child's room. At the child's funeral the child's estranged biker father came with his entire biker gang with the intent of killing his brother in law because of the death of his daughter. At the funeral service the mother shared Christ with the crowd and the forgiveness and love she had for her brother. They showed a slide show of the life of the young child that was taken and the precious image capture by their mother (my wife’s coworker) on their knees in the child's room. That day the entire biker gang dedicated their lives to Christ and forgave the lost child’s uncle.
I recall a story I was told by an African missionary who had worked in various countries of Africa for many years. He and his wife were both wonderful servants of the church. One tragic day a notorious gang apprehended the missionary couple and proceeded to beat the missionary man half to death. They allowed him to live in order for him to watch the gang rape his wife and then beat her and murder her by firing squad. These men were eventually caught for their crimes, but the missionary man (filled with the love and grace of Christ Jesus) forgave the men (despite his loss) and evn lead some of to accept Christ as their savior turning their lives completely around.
Sometimes the evil we perceive in our lives, when put in the hands of God, can change lives in powerful positive ways we'd never expect.
We tend to focus on the darkness and negativity of each moment, but we rarely take the time to revisit the situation years later or chronicle the aftermath.....we miss the potential and the reality of so much goodness that often arises out of tragedy. I don’t enjoy being put to the fire, but I can assure you that Jesus Christ is best way through it! His grace, mercy and justice is simply unfathomable.
You seem like a nice person but your ideology is disgusting. You seem like a intelligent person but how you can turn a blind eye to this bullshit is beyond me but that's why they call it apologetics.
You seem like a decent, intelligent man as well. If you needed help I’d help you or your family. If was stranded and needed help I believe you'd help me or my family.
Apologetics does not turn a blind eye on anything. It adds the all important context, explains ideas, helps give theological guidance, but most importantly it gives the reason for having the hope we do in Christ.
It’s why I have 1 Peter 3:15 is under my avatar…..that’s the foundation of apologetics in scripture.
1 Peter 3:15
15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;
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Then you have Dawkinsian atheists....these are your four horsemen, pro debaters, celebrities, youtubers, vloggers, meme posters, online comment section posters, radio personalities, the Bill Mahers, the George Carlins, etc....most are just bile and venom for religion. The vast majority will go to their graves with atheism and will proclaim it until their dying breath.
Sounds more like the religious nutjobs i see on TV all day long. Listen to any Pastor/Preacher/Molester and if you actually listen to the words(even repeat them out loud), it's the most insane shit you have heard in your life. Not a word of it relates to real life, just fantasy.
At least the people you mentioned above made their own choice without being brainwashed into believeing about the big place up in the sky.
I didn't read the article, i just like throwing jabs at religious people every chance i get. ;D
Have a blessed day!
8)
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Sounds more like the religious nutjobs i see on TV all day long. Listen to any Pastor/Preacher/Molester and if you actually listen to the words(even repeat them out loud), it's the most insane shit you have heard in your life. Not a word of it relates to real life, just fantasy.
At least the people you mentioned above made their own choice without being brainwashed into believeing about the big place up in the sky.
I didn't read the article, i just like throwing jabs at religious people every chance i get. ;D
Have a blessed day!
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I wasn't brainwashed into anything. I was raised in a Christian home. Basically left it completely on my own. Later came to Christ on my own in humble surrender and experienced the revelation of Christ's reality. Made all my own choices too.
You can jab at me all day long if you want. :)
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Man of Steel how much time in your day do you set aside for prayer and in those moments do you experience a settled peace where you no longer are thinking about anything in particular just dwelling in the felt presence of the spirit? Or when you pray are you always dwelling apon something in particular that requires activity of mind?
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Sorry for long reply, but I have the majority of responses I've written previously at my fingertips so I can often copy and paste.
Again, you’ve eliminated sin entirely from the discussion. You’ve removed any personal accountability or responsibility for breaking God’s law. In one breathe you simply say there is no God and another you acknowledge the existence of God but call him amoral. You define the proposition as “believe or burn”, but that isn’t correct. The reality is that Jesus Christ came as the incarnate son of God here on earth and live and died as a blameless, sinless man so that your sins could be paid for. If folks never broke God’s law there would be no need for Christ’s act on Calvary’s cross. You take the convenient atheist position of “believe or burn” that ignores sin (and somehow absolves you of sin at the same time) and then twist the situation into a heinous, evil dictatorial stance by God. “Believe and worship me or burn in hell!! MUAH-HAH-HAH!!!” [cue thunder, lightning, roaring seas, earthquakes and expressions of terror]. This is an invention, not the Christian worldview.
The only idea that is absolutely correct concerning your absolute statement of “NOT sufficient evidence” is that it is absolutely subjective. You are dialoguing with evidence for God right now. The reality of who he is is being shared with you currently. It isn’t up to me to convince you and we can speak about logic, archeological findings, history of Jesus, scripture, personal revelations of God, etc….. In the end it’s up to you to determine if you want to know the reality of God in your life. When you approach God you come to him according to his terms as laid out in scripture. I can certainly assist with that, but I can only lead a horse to water.
God’s law and knowledge of him is already imprinted upon you, but folks forcibly suppress that and often opt to endlessly argue about why they are not going to seek him on his terms in scripture….a lifetime of excuses is often sought to avoid minutes of humble, private personal prayer. Instead folks spend a lifetime suppressing and attempting to convince themselves that God isn’t real or that he's unjust (in our case "amoral"). It’s only about God that people do such things. Very few people spend lifetimes passionately arguing about things that are truly “fairytales and myths”. Those things are dismissed almost instantly, but not God. No, there’s an endless pursuit to either live for God or deny God and despite existing in either camp the pursuit never ends. Many, many folks that deny God have devoted their lives to studying his word, debating his word, debating his church, writing books about him and all because “there is no God”. I find that very interesting.
No, God demands that in order to exist with him that you must forgo of your sin and be brought into righteousness. God is worthy of worship and those that desire for God has worship and praise often pouring out of them.....I do. What appears designed into each of is a desire to worship and praise. Yes, we have a proclivity for sin in us, but not a preprogrammed set of sins to commit….simply not the case.
What is worship though?
Simply put, God is the essence of righteousness….the bar…..the creator…..the standard…..the law. He is the greatest possible being there is, was and ever will be.
God created us in his divine image (a generous act on his part) and defined for us two important roles within his creation: one, a kingly role in which we govern over his creation; two, a priest type role in which we walk in faithful service with God and surrender to his will for our lives so that others may draw close to him as well. The goodness of God flows to his creation and thereby becomes an extension of his church…..we are equipped with his attributes.
To worship God means to be included in his existence and to acknowledge his position in the order of all things and to also understand our role within his creation. We are creatures that literally overflow with worship for things we love and admire and cherish most……worship and praise pours out of us. God doesn’t need our worship though….his existence is not contingent upon it, but he created us so that we may enter into fellowship with him and engage in praise in worship for which is absolutely worthy. As part of the created order we give praise for those things we value the most in life. Believers enjoy the very presence of God and he enjoys ours as well….it’s a relationship. Given his exalted status when we are given his approval it elicits our praise and worship….we almost can’t help it at times LOL.
As C.S. Lewis notes in reference to praise and worship:
“But the most obvious fact about praise – whether of God or anything – strangely escaped me. I thought of it in terms of compliment, approval, or the giving of honour. I had never noticed that all enjoyment spontaneously overflows into praise unless . . . shyness or the fear of boring others is deliberately brought in to check it. The world rings with praise – lovers praising their mistresses [Romeo praising Juliet and vice versa], readers their favourite poet, walkers praising the countryside, players praising their favourite game – praise of weather, wines, dishes, actors, motors, horses, colleges, countries, historical personages, children, flowers, mountains, rare stamps, rare beetles, even sometimes politicians or scholars. . . . Except where intolerably adverse circumstances interfere, praise almost seems to be inner health made audible. . . . I had not noticed either that just as men spontaneously praise whatever they value, so they spontaneously urge us to join them in praising it: 'Isn't she lovely? Wasn't it glorious? Don't you think that magnificent?' The Psalmists in telling everyone to praise God are doing what all men do when they speak of what they care about. My whole, more general, difficulty about the praise of God depended on my absurdly denying to us, as regards the supremely Valuable, what we delight to do, what indeed we can't help doing, about everything else we value.”
Further the idea of sin built into for which we’re punished regardless is fallacious. Our prove is children.
When I read about King David’s child with Bathsheba passing away and David suggesting that as a believer he would he see his child again in God’s kingdom it affirmed for me the innocence of children and others with disabilities that prevent them from making an honest choice about sin and Christ in their lives. They don’t need salvation because being saved by grace through faith in Christ means we are saved from the wrath/judgment of God. The innocents need not fear God’s wrath for they are without blame or need for judgment.
“Jesus called a little child to him and put the child among them. Then he said, ‘I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven. So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.’”
Christ also indicated how severely those that cause the children (the little ones) to fall into sin would be judged. The children are lead into sin and out of innocence.
As believers in Christ we are saved by grace through faith and thereby justified and deemed righteous….like the innocents who are inherently righteous we become like the them through Christ. Anyone who comes to God and desires forgivenessness and righteousness will be deemed as such.
Above I illustrated your depiction of God as an evil dictator and here you reference him as some Godfather, Al Capone, Jon Gotti, Mafioso type…..not the case….see above.
There’s proof of everything and it resides in the Holy Spirit of God. Those that have come into humble, surrender before God and accept what Christ did for them on Calvary’s cross and proclaim him as savior and Lord have within them the tangible presence of the Holy Spirit….it’s undeniable for believers. That presence alone confirms the whole of scripture, but you only experience the revelation of God in two ways: abiding by God’s terms in scripture or a special revelation of God’s choosing (rare).
There’s all sorts of proof for the bible and Jesus Christ, but none of it matters if you remain in a state of suppression and rejection. God desires for you to desire him. The gateway to him is open you must be willing to walk through and that narrow gate is Jesus Christ.
Now previously I asked how you know the flames of hell are literal? I’ll keep that question open for now.
The “lake of fire” is found only in the book of Revelation. This is an incredibly prophetic book and it’s imagery is both vivid and often difficult to understand. The “lake of fire” is also referred as the “second death” which is an eternal separation from God and all his divine attributes. Despite the vivid imagery in these passages the interpretation cannot be said to be completely literal. I certainly can’t say that.
Again, I already noted that you attempting to subvert the concept of "free will" with a flawed notion of “complete autonomy”. It isn’t the same thing. Within our finite existence we have the ability to do whatever we please, but we do have some primary choices to make about our sin and relationship with Christ. Reason being is that when we exit this life we enter God’s eternity and we are ……ah, I said all this in my previous reply LOL…..see that.
I understand, you want a consequence free existence with total autonomy.
I understand.
I understand.
Your mother approached that situation poorly and I’m sorry about that. I would never confront a child of that age with the doctrine of hell. It’s unnecessary for a child to discuss those kinds of topics that can’t fully grasp. That was a poor choice.
I've seen my best friend deny God because of the loss of his grandmother (who served as his mother for most of his youth). I've seen families torn apart because of the loss of loved ones. I've seen men and women of God leave their faith behind when death comes in their lives. My grandmother lost my grandfather 21 years ago and to this day she talks about him and misses him dearly every single day and questions why God took him like he did.
I've also seen the best come out of folks in moments of utter despair.
I watched my sister tragically lose her fiance 4 years ago. Great guy....strong, fit, growing career and then one evening on a stair climber at the gym his heart stopped and he died almost instantly. It was later discovered he had an undiagnosed heart condition since birth (doctors believe) and the Lord took him home. My sister was obliterated, but she grew in her faith because of it....she actually drew closer to God in the process. Since that time she's undertaken a number of charitable events in his name and keeps contact with his family. She’s witnessed to members of my family and others and has become a strong, strong woman because of the loss. Just two weeks ago she announced her engagement to a new man in her life.....another terrific man. It's a blessing seeing all my sisters married to good men that love them and their families. My sister will always remember the man she lost tragically and we won't know exactly why the Lord called him home like he did, but I can say that he's now with his Lord and savior and his memory and my sister's testimony has touched so many over the last 4 years.
Another story (and I've shared this before) involves a coworker of my wife....awesome story!! My wife's coworker lost her baby granddaughter tragically in an accident caused by her son (the child's uncle). The child's mother was devastated as was her brother who was responsible for the accident, but in a moment of sheer grace and love the mother completely forgave her brother. While on their knees, within a private moment of utter grace and despair and forgiveness, my wife's coworker snapped a picture of the two of them on their knees in an embrace in the child's room. At the child's funeral the child's estranged biker father came with his entire biker gang with the intent of killing his brother in law because of the death of his daughter. At the funeral service the mother shared Christ with the crowd and the forgiveness and love she had for her brother. They showed a slide show of the life of the young child that was taken and the precious image capture by their mother (my wife’s coworker) on their knees in the child's room. That day the entire biker gang dedicated their lives to Christ and forgave the lost child’s uncle.
I recall a story I was told by an African missionary who had worked in various countries of Africa for many years. He and his wife were both wonderful servants of the church. One tragic day a notorious gang apprehended the missionary couple and proceeded to beat the missionary man half to death. They allowed him to live in order for him to watch the gang rape his wife and then beat her and murder her by firing squad. These men were eventually caught for their crimes, but the missionary man (filled with the love and grace of Christ Jesus) forgave the men (despite his loss) and evn lead some of to accept Christ as their savior turning their lives completely around.
Sometimes the evil we perceive in our lives, when put in the hands of God, can change lives in powerful positive ways we'd never expect.
We tend to focus on the darkness and negativity of each moment, but we rarely take the time to revisit the situation years later or chronicle the aftermath.....we miss the potential and the reality of so much goodness that often arises out of tragedy. I don’t enjoy being put to the fire, but I can assure you that Jesus Christ is best way through it! His grace, mercy and justice is simply unfathomable.
You seem like a decent, intelligent man as well. If you needed help I’d help you or your family. If was stranded and needed help I believe you'd help me or my family.
Apologetics does not turn a blind eye on anything. It adds the all important context, explains ideas, helps give theological guidance, but most importantly it gives the reason for having the hope we do in Christ.
It’s why I have 1 Peter 3:15 is under my avatar…..that’s the foundation of apologetics in scripture.
1 Peter 3:15
15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;
Simply put, God is the essence of righteousness….the bar…..the creator…..the standard…..the law. He is the greatest possible being there is, was and ever will be.
I was responding to every point you made until I made it here. And I decided at that point it was redundant.
You seem like a good & sincere person even though you follow this amoral doctrine.
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I wont play this game with you. Like I said the evils in our world are more shocking and convincing than the positive. That why they make the news.
If it were not for the presence of the divine, evil would have destroyed all life on earth.
I consider dropping the nuclear bomb on Japan cowardice. They were afraid to fight man o man with the crazy Japs.
And Japan bombing Pear Harbor wasn't a cowardly act? When did Samurais start using fighter planes?
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And Japan bombing Pear Harbor wasn't a cowardly act? When did Samurais start using fighter planes?
+1 for shizzo. ;D ;D
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And Japan bombing Pear Harbor wasn't a cowardly act? When did Samurais start using fighter planes?
When I see your posts I imagine a fly buzzing around.
I finally wait for the little shit to settle down somewhere..
Then I creep ever so slowly towards it and then even more slower towards the little cu nt
And then......
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMM MM
There goes it's slimy red dracula sucking blood all over my nice pair of Gucci shoes.
Then I say to myself "Shit why did I kill that fucking fly for??....Didn't my mamma tell you don't dirty dem nice new pair of shoes"
Do you feel me cuz?
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To tell the truth about one question and one question only. Atheism does not espouse any other ideology.
That is what I said.
As I understood it, you said that atheism has no purpose.
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And Japan bombing Pear Harbor wasn't a cowardly act? When did Samurais start using fighter planes?
Well it was I suppose, but the world would definitely be better off without the nuclear bomb. Pearl Harbour vs Hiroshima and Nagasaki, where would you have rather been?
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Man of Steel how much time in your day do you set aside for prayer and in those moments do you experience a settled peace where you no longer are thinking about anything in particular just dwelling in the felt presence of the spirit? Or when you pray are you always dwelling apon something in particular that requires activity of mind?
I typically pray in the morning and at night....length of time varies. I also pray when I'm lead to pray...can occur at anytime actually. I pray when asked for prayer as well.
Most often I type pray and try to focus only on that.....just me and God moments. Other times there are specific needs for prayer so it's a combination of reverence while organizing my thoughts. Yes, I experience the presence of the Holy Spirit in prayer, but not always. Prayer settles me in chaotic moments as well. Then there are other times when I need to pray, but just don't know what to pray. Fortunately those moments are infrequent, but when they do happen I'll ask other to pray for me. I do that for others as well.
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Well it was I suppose, but the world would definitely be better off without the nuclear bomb. Pearl Harbour vs Hiroshima and Nagasaki, where would you have rather been?
Definitely? Maybe you should think this through.
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As I understood it, you said that atheism has no purpose.
Well, if you consider offering an alternative side to theism a purpose, then I guess it does have a purpose (in that sense).
But in terms of a specific way to live, a book to follow, a doctrine to follow, or commandments to follow, there is no inherent purpose in atheism. There is nothing that guides us toward a place to worship or a way to follow.
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Well, if you consider offering an alternative side to theism a purpose, then I guess it does have a purpose (in that sense).
But in terms of a specific way to live, a book to follow, a doctrine to follow, or commandments to follow, there is no inherent purpose in atheism. There is nothing that guides us toward a place to worship or a way to follow.
Here is the MOS atheism definition I've put forth a few times:
atheist: "a" - without or lack of belief
"theist" - a person who believes in god(s)
"atheist" - a person that is without or has a lack of belief in god(s)
The term "atheist" is almost deemed unnecessary by the atheist community as a "non-theist" feels equally as ridiculous as a "non-gardener" or "non-chef". Since we don't refer to those things in that that way we don't need the term "atheist". Typically we only define the affirmative position on things.
The atheist proposition is that they aren't required to prove or disprove anything as it pertains to theism. They place the burden of proof on the theist who makes the initial and/or affirmative claim.
All atheism represents is a lack of belief in God or gods due to the rejection of all available evidence. Further claims of insufficient evidence (in spite of their presuppositions) or a claim of a "total lack of any evidence whatsoever" (this statement often peppered with references to "flying spaghetti monsters", "storybooks written by ancient goat herders", "fairytales", "how did Noah get every species in the ark" and "the man in the clouds") is par for the course in this type of "discourse".
Some atheists go a step further claiming that all people are atheists. Given that theists believe in their God and reject all other gods they are deemed atheists towards all other gods (this is nonsense of course, but I note it regardless).
The active portion of atheism is two-fold: one, challenging theists on their beliefs; two, keeping religion out of non-religious institutions, groups, organizations, governments, etc....
The first part of that two-fold activity is really limited to a smaller sect of atheism (the "Dawkinsian atheists" primarily....the "mock them, ridicule them" stuff) so I'd say the second portion is the primary activity (more political in nature).
Just my opinion based on my what I've experienced.
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Here is the MOS atheism definition I've put forth a few times:
atheist: "a" - without or lack of belief
"theist" - a person who believes in god(s)
"atheist" - a person that is without or has a lack of belief in god(s)
The term "atheist" is almost deemed unnecessary by the atheist community as a "non-theist" feels equally as ridiculous as a "non-gardener" or "non-chef". Since we don't refer to those things in that that way we don't need the term "atheist". Typically we only define the affirmative position on things.
The atheist proposition is that they aren't required to prove or disprove anything as it pertains to theism. They place the burden of proof on the theist who makes the initial and/or affirmative claim.
All atheism represents is a lack of belief in God or gods due to the rejection of all available evidence. Further claims of insufficient evidence (in spite of their presuppositions) or a claim of a "total lack of any evidence whatsoever" (this statement often peppered with references to "flying spaghetti monsters", "storybooks written by ancient goat herders", "fairytales", "how did Noah get every species in the ark" and "the man in the clouds") is par for the course in this type of "discourse".
Some atheists go a step further claiming that all people are atheists. Given that theists believe in their God and reject all other gods they are deemed atheists towards all other gods (this is nonsense of course, but I note it regardless).
The active portion of atheism is two-fold: one, challenging theists on their beliefs; two, keeping religion out of non-religious institutions, groups, organizations, governments, etc....
The first part of that two-fold activity is really limited to a smaller sect of atheism (the "Dawkinsian atheists" primarily....the "mock them, ridicule them" stuff) so I'd say the second portion is the primary activity (more political in nature).
Just my opinion based on my what I've experienced.
The part about sort of being an atheist because you reject all other God is true, but not true. You are an atheist regarding all other Gods, except yours. Obviously, it would not classify you as an atheist per se. I think you're taking the argument too literal. Its more of a metaphor. Obviously, you're not an atheist like I am. Anyone who proclaims otherwise is an idiot.
As for the part in bold, those are probably the only two inherent purposes in atheism, that is pretty much consistent across all atheists.
When I meant there is no "purpose" in atheism, I was referring to there is no specific doctrine, code of principles or morals, places of worship, that dictate how we should live our life. In that sense, there is much less purpose in atheism when compared to Christianity, Judaism, etc.
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The part about sort of being an atheist because you reject all other God is true, but not true. You are an atheist regarding all other Gods, except yours. Obviously, it would not classify you as an atheist per se. I think you're taking the argument too literal. Its more of a metaphor. Obviously, you're not an atheist like I am. Anyone who proclaims otherwise is an idiot.
As for the part in bold, those are probably the only two inherent purposes in atheism, that is pretty much consistent across all atheists.
When I meant there is no "purpose" in atheism, I was referring to there is no specific doctrine, code of principles or morals, places of worship, that dictate how we should live our life. In that sense, there is much less purpose in atheism when compared to Christianity, Judaism, etc.
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The part about sort of being an atheist because you reject all other God is true, but not true. You are an atheist regarding all other Gods, except yours. Obviously, it would not classify you as an atheist per se. I think you're taking the argument too literal. Its more of a metaphor. Obviously, you're not an atheist like I am. Anyone who proclaims otherwise is an idiot.
As for the part in bold, those are probably the only two inherent purposes in atheism, that is pretty much consistent across all atheists.
When I meant there is no "purpose" in atheism, I was referring to there is no specific doctrine, code of principles or morals, places of worship, that dictate how we should live our life. In that sense, there is much less purpose in atheism when compared to Christianity, Judaism, etc.
SF1900 destroying MOS like I predicted.
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SF1900 destroying MOS like I predicted.
Yep as predicted....I'm utterly destroyed.
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Yep as predicted....I'm utterly destroyed.
Che trying to troll and stir shit up! ;D ;D
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SF1900 destroying MOS like I predicted.
::) ::) ::)
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;D