Great article on atheism.

[Radical Plato]

I am happy right now drinking my morning coffee, with my dog at my side and my girlfriend in the kitchen, knowing I am going on holiday in 4 days with my parents. This is a certain kind of happiness and I am grateful for it. I don't equate it with the full flowering of my potential though. After-all a bum on the street would not want more than to have a warm bed, a warm meal and a hot drink at night. I am sure you have heard of maslows hierarchy of needs. To me self actualization is more than the genius of thought or invention. And I feel that all humans need enlightenment to be truly happy in the deepest sense. However I would not say there is only one way to get there, only one correct path. Nor do I spend much time trying to convince others of my views.

Are you suggesting that you are enlightened?  Or that once our basic needs are met that one should start pinning their glutes and lifting heavy objects?  Or is that just one of the paths to enlightenment?

[BigRo]

No where did I suggest I am enlightened in that.

Tally up another wank on your out wank my bros wank pad.

[pellius]

If only religious people could do the same, but they actually have an 'Evangelical' rule that states they must force their religion down other peoples throats.

Who does? Not me or anyone that I know. Nor is it promoted in the various churches I've attended throughout my life.

It is one thing to promote ideas you think are best: gun ownership, lower taxes, decriminalizing drugs... but forcing it down someone's throat?

That never works. Only if you have power over the individual and can  use coercion. But even then it won't be genuine and they will turn against you as so as the tables are turned or when you are  not looking.

I believe in a free market capitalism and spout my beliefs every time issues like minimum wage laws or price controls on, say, oil or housing comes up. But that's hardly force my views down anybody's throat.

[pellius]

Are there still adults who believe in fairy tales...that's cute.  You guys should read Peter Pan...another good story.
How anyone buys into any religion is comical.  You drank the Kool Aid.
If someone showed you a bible for the first time at the age of 30, you would laugh I their face if they tried to pawn it off as a real story.

If someone found a calculator on Mars you would laugh in their face if they claimed that it was just the random concussions of the universe that created it and not that it was created by an independent intelligent being.

Humans are a bit more advance than a calculator.

[Radical Plato]

If someone found a calculator on Mars you would laugh in their face if they claimed that it was just the random concussions of the universe that created it and not that it was created by an independent intelligent being.

Humans are a bit more advance than a calculator.

Not the ones I have met.

[Radical Plato]

No where did I suggest I am enlightened in that.

Tally up another wank on your out wank my bros wank pad.

This did make me smile.  Good for you Bigro.  

[pellius]

Great folks.

And with Mormons they are, in fact, all compelled to go out on a "Mission" to try to convert others to their wacky religion. But I am not offended or threatened or bothered by them at all. In fact, when most people their age are getting drunk or high financed by their parents. A Mormon is sent out away from their home, often to a third world country, to proselytize their faith.

i have no interest in being a Mormon but admire their commitment to their faith. Whenever I see a Mormon, and there are a lot of them here in Hawaii, wearing their dress shirt and ties riding their bikes in the blazing hot sun, I always tip them a nod and greet them with, "How's it going Elders. You do good work."  

[Necrosis]

Its an impossible question to answer.

I consider myself a Social Constructionist, thus I believe we all construct reality differently.

There is no one way to conceive the pinnacle of human thought.

Take Einstein. Did he reach the pinnacle of human thought? Some may say yes, considering his vast intellect and his ability to change the world. However, there is some thoughts that Einstein was a selfish person. He really only cared about his work and probably had little understanding how his behavior affected others. He was probably unreflective when it came to personal matters. Can we really say he reached the pinnacle of human thought, despite his lack of thought regarding interpersonal matters?

As Nietzsche said, "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."

computers have already done more then human thought ever could, human thought is a terrible tool for discovering truth, it's wrought with bias, inconsistencies.

Einstein likely had aspergers which explains the lack of interpersonal skills, he was unaware of them like a deaf person is unaware of thunder.

[Necrosis]

No where did I suggest I am enlightened in that.

Tally up another wank on your out wank my bros wank pad.

This is my issue with spirituality, how do you know being enlightened is not another form of delusion?

No one knows, no one. Meditating may be doing little more then silencing your default network like psychedelics do. These states can be observed, certain chemicals etc. psychedelics are a much faster way to "enlightenment", however, we know perception is limited.

[bigmc]

Who does? Not me or anyone that I know. Nor is it promoted in the various churches I've attended throughout my life.

It is one thing to promote ideas you think are best: gun ownership, lower taxes, decriminalizing drugs... but forcing it down someone's throat?

That never works. Only if you have power over the individual and can  use coercion. But even then it won't be genuine and they will turn against you as so as the tables are turned or when you are  not looking.

I believe in a free market capitalism and spout my beliefs every time issues like minimum wage laws or price controls on, say, oil or housing comes up. But that's hardly force my views down anybody's throat.

the other website is a classic example of that a cult where everything goes wrong

and people are exorcised by a creepy deity with strange kig like powers

[BigRo]

This is my issue with spirituality, how do you know being enlightened is not another form of delusion?

No one knows, no one. Meditating may be doing little more then silencing your default network like psychedelics do. These states can be observed, certain chemicals etc. psychedelics are a much faster way to "enlightenment", however, we know perception is limited.

Because it brings peace,light,love,power,freedom all that is contrary to a state of delusion which brings confusion, darkness,anger, misery and bondage.

You have an issue with spirituality but have not even set foot on the path.

[Radical Plato]

computers have already done more then human thought ever could, human thought is a terrible tool for discovering truth, it's wrought with bias, inconsistencies.

Einstein likely had aspergers which explains the lack of interpersonal skills, he was unaware of them like a deaf person is unaware of thunder.

Beautifully put.

[Radical Plato]

Because it brings peace,light,love,power,freedom all that is contrary to a state of delusion which brings confusion, darkness,anger, misery and bondage.

Please let me know when this process is supposed to begin, sounds wonderful.

BigRo look around you buddy, the worlds a violent cesspool of perversion, desperation and unfulfilled desires, face it you are living a delusion.

While love may be the grandest of emotions, and romantic fools long to dwell in it for eternity, it comes at a cost, a very large one, it is entwined with lust, greed, envy, anger and any number of countless sins and perversions.   Peace, light and love as wonderful as they may be are only fleeting and temporary I am afraid, the rest of the time is filled with pus and shit.  Hope this helps.

[Necrosis]

Because it brings peace,light,love,power,freedom all that is contrary to a state of delusion which brings confusion, darkness,anger, misery and bondage.

You have an issue with spirituality but have not even set foot on the path.

So the feelings it evokes are evidence of it's authenticity? A line of cocaine would evoke similar feelings, MDMA can do it as well. Can a psychopath experience this enlightenment despite being void of emotions, empathy etc? if not, then it's simply another brain process.

How do you know I haven't, I have experimented pretty intensely with hallucinogens, meditate and constantly engage in existential rumination's.  I don't trust my senses, I have experienced the oneness (this is because an area in the brain shuts off, which controls where you vs outside begins, real data) the fact that we are nothingness headed back to oblivion, I listen to alan watts etc. no one  knows, he is just giving his best guess he could be terrible wrong and this is all a cruel joke. Emotionally satisfying ideologies do not move me as much as intellectually satisfying ones.

I have gone from spinoza's pantheism, to atheism, to a amalgam of buddhist philosophy only to find other humans telling me things that they can't possibly know.

to me it is intriguing to think why anything exists at all, aquinas said the reason was what exists must, it's very essence is to exist such that nothingness is eternally absent. If god exists I would imagine he is simply existence, with no control but simply a divided whole, to see infinity you must be zero, we are nothing, because infinity is nothingness, nothing is everything.

[Radical Plato]

So the feelings it evokes are evidence of it's authenticity? A line of cocaine would evoke similar feelings, MDMA can do it as well. Can a psychopath experience this enlightenment despite being void of emotions, empathy etc? if not, then it's simply another brain process.

How do you know I haven't, I have experimented pretty intensely with hallucinogens, meditate and constantly engage in existential rumination's.  I don't trust my senses, I have experienced the oneness (this is because an area in the brain shuts off, which controls where you vs outside begins, real data) the fact that we are nothingness headed back to oblivion, I listen to alan watts etc. no one  knows, he is just giving his best guess he could be terrible wrong and this is all a cruel joke. Emotionally satisfying ideologies do not move me as much as intellectually satisfying ones.

I have gone from spinoza's pantheism, to atheism, to a amalgam of buddhist philosophy only to find other humans telling me things that they can't possibly know.

to me it is intriguing to think why anything exists at all, aquinas said the reason was what exists must, it's very essence is to exist such that nothingness is eternally absent. If god exists I would imagine he is simply existence, with no control but simply a divided whole, to see infinity you must be zero, we are nothing, because infinity is nothingness, nothing is everything.

I hear you.  Thanks to cid, I really appreciated what you just posted.

[The Ugly]

This is my issue with spirituality, how do you know being enlightened is not another form of delusion?

No one knows, no one. Meditating may be doing little more then silencing your default network like psychedelics do. These states can be observed, certain chemicals etc. psychedelics are a much faster way to "enlightenment", however, we know perception is limited.

My issue is lack of spirit. SpiritLESS, essentially, no trace at all on MRI. Sucks.

[Radical Plato]

And I feel that all humans need enlightenment to be truly happy in the deepest sense.

No where did I suggest I am enlightened in that.

Tally up another wank on your out wank my bros wank pad.

Just that you equated the importance of being enlightened to happiness, it sounded like you were talking from experience.  So you mean you have constructed a theory as to what is required to be happy and YOU FEEL that enlightenment is an essential part of that recipe.

You posted "And I feel that all humans need enlightenment to be truly happy in the deepest sense.", how could you possibly know this unless you were enlightened.  Otherwise it's just an assumption on your part, and you know what they say about assumptions.

[BigRo]

Please let me know when this process is supposed to begin, sounds wonderful.

BigRo look around you buddy, the worlds a violent cesspool of perversion, desperation and unfulfilled desires, face it you are living a delusion.

The world you speak of exists because of delusion and ignorance of our divine nature

While love may be the grandest of emotions, and romantic fools long to dwell in it for eternity, it comes at a cost, a very large one, it is entwined with lust, greed, envy, anger and any number of countless sins and perversions.   Peace, light and love as wonderful as they may be are only fleeting and temporary I am afraid, the rest of the time is filled with pus and shit.  Hope this helps.

Love is what is left when all those traits you mention subside.

[BigRo]

So the feelings it evokes are evidence of it's authenticity? A line of cocaine would evoke similar feelings, MDMA can do it as well. Can a psychopath experience this enlightenment despite being void of emotions, empathy etc? if not, then it's simply another brain process.

Yes, you have not gone deep enough to be convinced. A line of cocaine does not come close, MDMA maybe only so much as it slows the mind down to recognize its essential nature which is love. That certain substances illicit altered states of mind is not a proof that there is no spiritual dimension independent of the brain. Such proof in hard terms is only needed by such as yourself anyway. There are cases of meditators stopping all brain and heart activity, clinically dead only to return to life again. And no a psychopath cannot realize enlightenment until he drops his psychosis.

How do you know I haven't, I have experimented pretty intensely with hallucinogens, meditate and constantly engage in existential rumination's.  I don't trust my senses, I have experienced the oneness (this is because an area in the brain shuts off, which controls where you vs outside begins, real data) the fact that we are nothingness headed back to oblivion, I listen to alan watts etc. no one  knows, he is just giving his best guess he could be terrible wrong and this is all a cruel joke. Emotionally satisfying ideologies do not move me as much as intellectually satisfying ones.

Glad to hear. What is important is the personal experience not proving through hard data that the soul and all exists. You talk with conviction that it is all brain chemistry.

I have gone from spinoza's pantheism, to atheism, to a amalgam of buddhist philosophy only to find other humans telling me things that they can't possibly know.

What have you found out of your own accord then? You have gone from listening to Watts and crew to listening to atheists and physicists, your still listening to someone.

to me it is intriguing to think why anything exists at all, aquinas said the reason was what exists must, it's very essence is to exist such that nothingness is eternally absent. If god exists I would imagine he is simply existence, with no control but simply a divided whole, to see infinity you must be zero, we are nothing, because infinity is nothingness, nothing is everything.

aha your validating that we actually can see infinity then afterall!

[BigRo]

My issue is lack of spirit. SpiritLESS, essentially, no trace at all on MRI. Sucks.

just because it cannot be measured by the instruments of hard science is not enough to prove its non existence. You also have faith, faith that the instruments of hard science are adequate to measure all things, therefore you are a religious.

[SF1900]

just because it cannot be measured by the instruments of hard science is not enough to prove its non existence. You also have faith, faith that the instruments of hard science are adequate to measure all things, therefore you are a religious.

No, this is demonstrably wrong. The whole argument of "science is a religion" and requires "faith" is wrong. Its an argument that has been debunked time and time again.

Having "faith" that gravity exists is 100% different than having "faith" that a spirit exists.

[BigRo]

Just that you equated the importance of being enlightened to happiness, it sounded like you were talking from experience.  So you mean you have constructed a theory as to what is required to be happy and YOU FEEL that enlightenment is an essential part of that recipe.

I am talking from experience in as much as my happiest moments in life so far have been when I am dwelling in what would be called a spiritual state of being/mind.

You posted "And I feel that all humans need enlightenment to be truly happy in the deepest sense.", how could you possibly know this unless you were enlightened.  Otherwise it's just an assumption on your part, and you know what they say about assumptions.
I have had enlightenment experiences, but I still have ego and human nature. Even if I said I was enlightened you would still call it an assumption. Even if nothing fantastic is going on when I abide within in basic stillness and peace I feel or intuit that this abiding is something humans need and miss out on. You seem to dismiss and look down on feelings and trump cold hard reason, however is your cold hard reason not also tinged by emotion, it is a worldview that has been fortified by life's harsh experiences.

[BigRo]

No, this is demonstrably wrong. The whole argument of "science is a religion" and requires "faith" is wrong. Its an argument that has been debunked time and time again.

Having "faith" that gravity exists is 100% different than having "faith" that a spirit exists.

Yes it is different, gravity lays within hard sciences just field of investigation. Spirit does not. To conclude that spirit does not exist means you have faith in the methodology of materialist science to adequately explain away all things.

[Radical Plato]

Yes it is different, gravity lays within hard sciences just field of investigation. Spirit does not. To conclude that spirit does not exist means you have faith in the methodology of materialist science to adequately explain away all things.

Well, isn't that just convenient and dandy, the fairy tale you believe in can't be investigated because it lives somewhere in the nether regions where no light shines from.

[The Ugly]

just because it cannot be measured by the instruments of hard science is not enough to prove its non existence. You also have faith, faith that the instruments of hard science are adequate to measure all things, therefore you are a religious.

Just like that, huh?

2+2 = anything imaginable, and faith alone gives me 4?

Which makes me a religious.

Sublime, sir.