Both incredible fighters
Lee ultimately might be right. Yates and Coleman destroyed their bodies lifting heavy. It seems Haney has no issues.
Lee ultimately might be right. Yates and Coleman destroyed their bodies lifting heavy. It seems Haney has no issues.
How has Dorian destroyed his body? He seems very healthy and fit. Does yoga and bike rides constantly. He looks great. Dorian is 58 years old now. Compare him to the average 58 year old man who can't come within a foot of touching his toes.
He tore his arms to shreds, which forced him to retire early. His arms today measure 13", and have basically zero muscle. His yoga/bike thing is a cope, because his muscles and joints are destroyed.I think 13 inches is a stretch. He actually has a very good beach body today. No homo.
How has Dorian destroyed his body? He seems very healthy and fit. Does yoga and bike rides constantly. He looks great. Dorian is 58 years old now. Compare him to the average 58 year old man who can't come within a foot of touching his toes.
He tore both his tricep and bicep on one arm. Yes, I agree he does look in good shape now claiming he is off steroids but is he truly clean? Wonder if he still uses syringes and vials of testosterone to keep his physique in check. Truth be told if he turned into a slob it would be bad for business. If the is clean he truly has an incredible physique now.
You don't know anything about steroids do you oldtimer...? He's maybe using trt, that's it.
Lee doesnt seem to have a problem with the way Ronnie trained:Lee is being nice.
Flex wheelchair wheeler didn’t lift too crazy and still destroyed his bodyBro...
I feel like bodybuilders on steroids should never do high intensity training, is way too risky for themIt's way to risky for everyone, and unnecessary.
It's way to risky for everyone, and unnecessary.
This. One of the best Doctors I know was telling there are an obscene number of 35 plus yearolds with long term injuries, because they just trained with too much intensity for too long. Most were crossfiters, second on the list were bodybuilders and then people who liked to run on pavements with rucksacks on. Their quality of life is now little better than a couch potatoes.Check out retired career infantrymen. They are wrecked. I have experimented with almost every training system invented at one time or another and found there is very little if any difference in training "easy" compared to training hardcore. Those who train with moderate weights look the same, get injured much less (long or short term), and enjoy the training much more so don't take as many layoffs if any at all.
It's way to risky for everyone, and unnecessary.For natties is different, natties can do high intensity training
Other than his torn up arms Dorian looks good.
Tans too much though...
He tore his arms to shreds, which forced him to retire early. His arms today measure 13", and have basically zero muscle. His yoga/bike thing is a cope, because his muscles and joints are destroyed.
I think 13 inches is a stretch. He actually has a very good beach body today. No homo.
His arms are fine. Remember, he still won the O with the torn bicep. He has not lost any function in his arms that hinders him in anyway giving his lifestyle.
He tore both his tricep and bicep on one arm. Yes, I agree he does look in good shape now claiming he is off steroids but is he truly clean? Wonder if he still uses syringes and vials of testosterone to keep his physique in check. Truth be told if he turned into a slob it would be bad for business. If the is clean he truly has an incredible physique now.
This. One of the best Doctors I know was telling there are an obscene number of 35 plus yearolds with long term injuries, because they just trained with too much intensity for too long. Most were crossfiters, second on the list were bodybuilders and then people who liked to run on pavements with rucksacks on. Their quality of life is now little better than a couch potatoes.
Can't lift much though.
It's way to risky for everyone, and unnecessary.
You don't get hurt training intensely. That is a myth. You get hurt training sloppy. Throwing weights and working with weights too heavy for you. Super-Slow training is one of the hardest, painful, and intense workout protocols you can do but you are not going to hurt yourself. Ever since being introduced to Arthur Jones and Mike Menter I have trained HIT for decades: force reps, drop set, negatives, pre-exhaust. I almost never stop at positive failure. I am sixty years old now and though I have been plagued with injuries due to sports, I have never ever hurt myself in the gym. I always train with strict form and use weights that I can handle safely.true dat...
If anything, assuming your form is good, your most intense rep is actually your safest rep and you're more likely to hurt yourself at the beginning of a set rather than the end. Again, this applies only if your form is intact.
true dat...
Perhaps I should explain why I say your most intense rep, your last rep, is probably the safest rep in a set as it seems counter-intuitive. Again it is very important to emphasize that your form must be strict which is often not the case as you struggle with the last rep. For many, their form degrades considerably as they try to eke out another rep they are not capable of doing strictly. But that is an issue of training form and not intensity.100%
There is an inverse relationship between force and intensity. The force you generate moving the weight and how hard it takes you to do that. The amount of effort, intensity, you have to generate to complete that rep. Say you can curl 100 lbs for ten reps full complete strict reps but fail to do eleven. During the first rep it is very easy. You could easily do more than 100 lbs if you had to. So your ability to generate force is high and intensity is low. As the set progresses your ability to generate that 100 lbs of force starts to wane and it gets harder to do that next rep. Hence, intensity starts to increase. You have to work harder. By the time you get that last complete rep you are barely able to generate that 100 lbs and it takes a lot of effort, a lot of intensity, to do so. Your biceps are now fatigued and thus weaker.
You injure yourself when you exceed the tensile strength of the muscle, tendons, or ligaments. By the time you've done the last STRICT rep you are simply unable to generate that amount of force to exceed that tensile strength. You are simply too weak to hurt yourself.
What kind of shape is you doctor in and how much experience does he have in weight training.
You don't get hurt training intensely. That is a myth. You get hurt training sloppy. Throwing weights and working with weights too heavy for you. Super-Slow training is one of the hardest, painful, and intense workout protocols you can do but you are not going to hurt yourself. Ever since being introduced to Arthur Jones and Mike Menter I have trained HIT for decades: force reps, drop set, negatives, pre-exhaust. I almost never stop at positive failure. I am sixty years old now and though I have been plagued with injuries due to sports, I have never ever hurt myself in the gym. I always train with strict form and use weights that I can handle safely.
If anything, assuming your form is good, your most intense rep is actually your safest rep and you're more likely to hurt yourself at the beginning of a set rather than the end. Again, this applies only if your form is intact.
Yates guest posing in Pittsburgh 1997 at 310lbs.
https://www.facebook.com/34428725513/posts/10163700456320514/
Perhaps I should explain why I say your most intense rep, your last rep, is probably the safest rep in a set as it seems counter-intuitive. Again it is very important to emphasize that your form must be strict which is often not the case as you struggle with the last rep. For many, their form degrades considerably as they try to eke out another rep they are not capable of doing strictly. But that is an issue of training form and not intensity.you seem to know everything about everything pal. Steroids, training, Mr O. were you ever a pro? just asking as you seem to be the man (sarcasm end) ::)
There is an inverse relationship between force and intensity. The force you generate moving the weight and how hard it takes you to do that. The amount of effort, intensity, you have to generate to complete that rep. Say you can curl 100 lbs for ten reps full complete strict reps but fail to do eleven. During the first rep it is very easy. You could easily do more than 100 lbs if you had to. So your ability to generate force is high and intensity is low. As the set progresses your ability to generate that 100 lbs of force starts to wane and it gets harder to do that next rep. Hence, intensity starts to increase. You have to work harder. By the time you get that last complete rep you are barely able to generate that 100 lbs and it takes a lot of effort, a lot of intensity, to do so. Your biceps are now fatigued and thus weaker.
You injure yourself when you exceed the tensile strength of the muscle, tendons, or ligaments. By the time you've done the last STRICT rep you are simply unable to generate that amount of force to exceed that tensile strength. You are simply too weak to hurt yourself.
absolutely mind blogging thickness everywhere even his arms carrying that weight are huge I don’t know if ANYONE too date has actually carried that much muscle @ 310lbs and still actually resembles a bodybuilder his back, chest, legs are massive rare video
Dorian comes on at 3mins 10 seconds so you dont need to listen to all his waffle
absolutely mind blogging thickness everywhere even his arms carrying that weight are huge I don’t know if ANYONE too date has actually carried that much muscle @ 310lbs and still actually resembles a bodybuilder his back, chest, legs are massive rare video
You don't get hurt training intensely. That is a myth. You get hurt training sloppy. Throwing weights and working with weights too heavy for you. Super-Slow training is one of the hardest, painful, and intense workout protocols you can do but you are not going to hurt yourself. Ever since being introduced to Arthur Jones and Mike Menter I have trained HIT for decades: force reps, drop set, negatives, pre-exhaust. I almost never stop at positive failure. I am sixty years old now and though I have been plagued with injuries due to sports, I have never ever hurt myself in the gym. I always train with strict form and use weights that I can handle safely.It just so happens that everyone who gets injured trains intensely. They must all have bad form.
If anything, assuming your form is good, your most intense rep is actually your safest rep and you're more likely to hurt yourself at the beginning of a set rather than the end. Again, this applies only if your form is intact.
It just so happens that everyone who gets injured trains intensely. They must all have bad form.THIS even with good form with heavy weight your joints will over time feel wear and tear. same in any sport if you´re training hard over some years.
He's not my Doctor, but he's in great shape. He's primarily a cyclist who likes to lift.
You do if you don't get enough rest and don't allow your body sufficient recovery time. And it's not just injuries in the gym that are the problem. It's the premature wear and tear that takes place on the body. Weight training done right ( not for ego, competition, sports etc) should prolong and/or help prevent things like bone strength, mobility, cns function, muscle atrophy etc. Arguably weight training is more useful the older you are. Too many gym rats however will physically be unable to train effectively when it's most needed.
you seem to know everything about everything pal. Steroids, training, Mr O. were you ever a pro? just asking as you seem to be the man (sarcasm end) ::)
It just so happens that everyone who gets injured trains intensely. They must all have bad form.
THIS even with good form with heavy weight your joints will over time feel wear and tear. same in any sport if you´re training hard over some years.
So he's using a dose that a typical non bodybuilder 60 year old would use for hormone replacement or is he using a little more. Inquiring minds want to know. Just because you are injecting testosterone it doesn't make it the typical hormone replacement that an old man uses prescribed by his doctor. You had a question if I knew anything about steroids? More than you know.
That's over training. A completely different issue. By definition you over train by training too much regardless of intensity. Jog twenty miles every day and you will over train.
This. One of the best Doctors I know was telling there are an obscene number of 35 plus yearolds with long term injuries, because they just trained with too much intensity for too long. Most were crossfiters, second on the list were bodybuilders and then people who liked to run on pavements with rucksacks on. Their quality of life is now little better than a couch potatoes.
Funnily enough that was my original point and you decided you'd dismiss it by asking what the Doctor looked like and then proceed to pretty much tell me the same thing I posted.
Run 20 miles every day and you'll break down faster than if you jog it.
Funnily enough that was my original point and you decided you'd dismiss it by asking what the Doctor looked like and then proceed to pretty much tell me the same thing I posted.just let him talk to himself. seems to very opinionated. likes the sound of his own voice. :D
Run 20 miles every day and you'll break down faster than if you jog it.
Think it depends on what you mean with intensity
In dorians case it meant using the heaviest weights possible.
So unless you're doing just that, in other words, loading up the leg press with as much weight as you can, loading up the hack squat with as much weight as you can, use a pull over machine with as heavy as you can etc
youre not really training intense, not by dorians standards anyway
muscles dont know weight, they only know intensity..yeah but you´ll never build thick slabs of beef without some decent weight . please let´s not start a light vs heavy debate.
yeah but you´ll never build thick slabs of beef without some decent weight . please let´s not start a light vs heavy debate.thats because a decent amount of weight creates intensity
thats because a decent amount of weight creates intensitylisten i used a Bullworker as a kid. I felt like steve reeves. Think it was isometrics & isotonics?
Dynamic tension training without weights just doesn't allow that same level of intensity to be generated
The original point is that intensity makes one more prone to injury. I disagree. You brought up overtraining which is another issue entirely. Being tired and weak doesn't cause injury. You may be more prone to sloppy form if you are tired which makes you more prone to injury. And yes, though jogging 20 miles every day will cause over training, running 20 miles every day (if you can for 20 miles) will cause over training as well. What's your point.
I didn't dismiss anything. It's just that it happens ofter that doctors, personal trainers, and coaches will give all this advice when they have no or very little hands on experience. It matters if a doctor is a fatso if he is giving you diet advice. Or if a personal trainer is out of shape or has no proven record and achieving anything in physical fitness. I asked the question as one of the ways to determine his credibility.
listen i used a Bullworker as a kid. I felt like steve reeves. Think it was isometrics & isotonics?
my dad taught me a load of dynamic tension exercises, it was basically tensing your muscles as hard as you could and moving it through a range of motionso did it work?
He only showed me them because he couldnt afford to buy me a weight set
Another thing that works is just sitting still imagine muscleThere was actually a course someone used to sell in the back of MuscleMag International in the 80's that taught visualization to build muscle.
There was actually a course someone used to sell in the back of MuscleMag International in the 80's that taught visualization to build muscle.I think it was more meditation to visulize it growing. maybe like thinking about pussy?
I think it was more meditation to visulize it growing. maybe like thinking about pussy?The only difference is that thinking about pussy does actually make you grow. :D
The only difference is that thinking about pussy does actually make you grow. :Dthat Sir, was my point ;D
just let him talk to himself. seems to very opinionated. likes the sound of his own voice. :D
Think it depends on what you mean with intensity
In dorians case it meant using the heaviest weights possible.
So unless you're doing just that, in other words, loading up the leg press with as much weight as you can, loading up the hack squat with as much weight as you can, use a pull over machine with as heavy as you can etc
youre not really training intense, not by dorians standards anyway
listen i used a Bullworker as a kid. I felt like steve reeves. Think it was isometrics & isotonics?
No, the point is that it's an unnecessary risk. Overtraining and training intensity can go hand in hand as it's much easier to over train if you train with high intensity (note I did need use the words over train originally, just using it here for discussion. My original point was too much intensity for too long increased the risk factor)
Also the doctor I mentioned wasn't giving any advice. He provided an observation based on the types of people that were coming to see him and the types of exercise and duration they were involved in. What relevance does how he look play in that?
What is the more intense form of exercise, running or jogging? Which would lead to a person breaking down faster?
Not true. Intensity is defined as momentary effort. If you pick a weight light enough to do 20 reps and despite your best effort you cannot do 21 reps that 20th rep is going to be your most intense reps. I assume you never tried the 20 rep squat protocol that was so popular many years back. You don't need heavy weights, or even any weight at all, to maximize intensity of effort. A sprinter going for a world record is pushing himself to the max and you can see how exhausted a sprinter is after less than 10 seconds of effort.
Where did you find that definition of intensity?
Wouldn’t we all agree that to increase intensity you would need to either do:
(1) More work in same amount of time
(2) Same amount of work in less time
Work = force x distance
So it’s easy to see how to do more work:
(1) Heavier force moved the same distance
(2) Same force moved over a longer distance
In this instance force is the “weight” you’re lifting and distance is the number of “reps” you’re doing.
If you think about it, it’s no more difficult than that.
Not true. Intensity is defined as momentary effort. If you pick a weight light enough to do 20 reps and despite your best effort you cannot do 21 reps that 20th rep is going to be your most intense reps. I assume you never tried the 20 rep squat protocol that was so popular many years back. You don't need heavy weights, or even any weight at all, to maximize intensity of effort. A sprinter going for a world record is pushing himself to the max and you can see how exhausted a sprinter is after less than 10 seconds of effort.
The greatest way to increase intensity in a weight training session is to slow down the movement. Nothing else creates for a more intense workout.
His arms are fine. Remember, he still won the O with the torn bicep. He has not lost any function in his arms that hinders him in anyway giving his lifestyle.
Thats not what Im talking about here and thats not what dorian was doing.
Nobody is talking about dorians balls to the wall training as just struggling with the last rep, and thats that.
I thought you know how dorian trained, go look up Blood N guts on youtube and then come back and tell me youre training as hard as he is.
If you think training itense doesnt require heavy weights lets do an experiment:
Monday: train as intense as possible without using heavy weights.
Friday: train as intense as possible with heavy weights.
Report back...
This is how Dorian trained and there is a reason this video is a classic
the reason is he trained harder and more brutal and more intense than all others and you cannot find a video of any other bodybuilder that trains like this.
So the point in this whole thread is that this type of training might not be IDEAL for others, in fact there are reasons hardly anyone trains like this - and maybe they shouldnt and maybe they cannot.
I guess you haven't seen any of Tom Platz's videos.so let´s get this right you are saying a Multi MrO like Dorian did not train as intensive as Casey Viator? Maybe you should have been Mr O? but no you are just a know it all smart ass on a bodybuilding forum. can´t be arsed to read all your BS. I bet you believe the Colorado experiment too. ::)
There are many that have done a set with more intensity than Dorian. For example, look at Dorian doing his one work set on the pullover. He does five reps on his own and three forced reps after that. When Casey Viator came to Hawaii in 1979 while he was still working with Arthur Jones to promote the Nautilus Line. After the seminar he showed us an example of the type of training he did with Jones. On the pullover, using the stack, he did 7 full-range reps. He went so far back that when he did the first rep I thought he dislocated his shoulder. He then drove his elbows all the way back without leaning forward like Dorian does but with his chest out which allowed his elbow to go back further and paused at full contraction. After the 7th rep he did four forced reps with his spotter helping him just enough to move the weight. It took forever to do these forced reps. After that he did three negative reps. His partner assisted him in the concentric portion and Casey slowly lowered the weight stack until by the time he did the third negative he could no longer safely control the eccentric portion. There was some grimacing and grunting but not to the extent that Dorian would do.
What are you talking about? We weren't talking about Dorian.
Oh my bad I thought ME starting a thread about DORIAN was supposed to be about DORIAN thats why I started it.He takes over any thread on everything. He knows everything better.
Carry on.
If you think youre training hard and
a) have no big amount of muscle mass to show for it (for example big arms, big chest, big back)
and
b) have no big number of lifts to show for it (for example impressive bench, impressive squat etc)
then chances are you are not training hard
there is no point in claiming to train hard and intense if it doesnt lead to any noticable result either in muscle mass or power.
HEAVY WEIGHT MATTERS
He tore his arms to shreds, which forced him to retire early. His arms today measure 13", and have basically zero muscle. His yoga/bike thing is a cope, because his muscles and joints are destroyed.
If you think youre training hard andNo it's because of bad genetics for muscle building.
a) have no big amount of muscle mass to show for it (for example big arms, big chest, big back)
and
b) have no big number of lifts to show for it (for example impressive bench, impressive squat etc)
then chances are you are not training hard
there is no point in claiming to train hard and intense if it doesnt lead to any noticable result either in muscle mass or power.
HEAVY WEIGHT MATTERS
Oh my bad I thought ME starting a thread about DORIAN was supposed to be about DORIAN thats why I started it.
Carry on.
so let´s get this right you are saying a Multi MrO like Dorian did not train as intensive as Casey Viator? Maybe you should have been Mr O? but no you are just a know it all smart ass on a bodybuilding forum. can´t be arsed to read all your BS. I bet you believe the Colorado experiment too. ::)
Oh my bad I thought ME starting a thread about DORIAN was supposed to be about DORIAN thats why I started it.
Carry on.
He takes over any thread on everything. He knows everything better.
any anaerobic exercise is intense..
If you think youre training hard and
a) have no big amount of muscle mass to show for it (for example big arms, big chest, big back)
and
b) have no big number of lifts to show for it (for example impressive bench, impressive squat etc)
then chances are you are not training hard
there is no point in claiming to train hard and intense if it doesnt lead to any noticable result either in muscle mass or power.
HEAVY WEIGHT MATTERS
No it's because of bad genetics for muscle building.
Such an obvious observation that you would think anyone with any experience in resistance training would know. FriedChicken really doesn't seem very bright. It explains why he has only one response that he parrots every time PlainJane owns and humiliates him.why don´t you contact Dorian & the other pros. I am sure they will listen to your expert opinions, after all you were a Pro Bodybuilder...right?? ya know..walked the walk so you talk the talk?
why don´t you contact Dorian & the other pros. I am sure they will listen to your expert opinions, after all you were a Pro Bodybuilder...right?? ya know..walked the walk so you talk the talk?
So that's it? That's the best you can do? No counter-argument? No rebuttal? No rational argument to offer? Just some lame comment about me contacting Dorian? Implying that you have to be a pro or "walk the walk" to agree that genetics is the major factor on someone's response to training, nutrition, and hormones.why don´t you contact Dorian via Instagram give us all a laugh. dare you ! :D
I really wonder how guys like you survive in this world being so dumb. How are you able to fill out a job application? How do you get through a job interview let alone perform, other than the most menial task, any kind of worthwhile job?
Maybe you don't. Maybe like so many here you still live with your parents or are on the dole on some sort of concocted disability. Let me guess, you haven't read a substantial book in years, perhaps decades. You're obviously from the generation brought up on TV and cell phones and have the attention span of a two-year-old.
When you decide, or are able to, make any kind of coherent argument supporting whatever you believe about diet and training and able to break it down to more detail other than say, "Train heavy". Some of the top gurus that have produce pro-level bbers have never been a pro or have even competed themselves. Arthur Jones was a genius and revolutionize training equipment and everything you see today has its roots in Nautilus. Before that it was all cables and straight weight rails. Virtually every machine now has some sort of cam to provide variable resistance and more match a person's strength curve, a concept I'm not sure you can even grasp or heard of.
why don´t you contact Dorian via Instagram give us all a laugh. dare you ! :D
Intense training with heavy weights is always going to be more intense than the same training without heavy weights.
That leads to the conclusion that intense training with heavy weights is the most intense training and no other training can be as intense.