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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: CalorieKing on September 07, 2025, 01:13:47 PM
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I was diagnosed type 2 7 months or so ago. Took me 3 months to get it back to normal readings and kept them there, until,....I started lifting really heavy (for me) again and consistently see massive spikes and feel like fuking trash for a few hours after training. Im absolutely loving lifting heavy but at what point do I take my type 2 into consideration and train more suited for that?
Why does high intensity exercise cause a glucose spike?
During high intensity exercise, the body requires more energy to fuel the muscles. To meet these demands, the liver breaks down stored glycogen into glucose, which is then released into the bloodstream. The glucose spike occurs as a result of this process, as the body releases more glucose than is needed for the activity.
Furthermore, high intensity exercise can cause the release of stress hormones, such as adrenaline and cortisol. These hormones trigger a response in the liver to release more glucose into the bloodstream, further contributing to the spike in glucose levels.
It's important to note that these high blood glucose levels are generally temporary and not harmful for most individuals. However, for those with diabetes or at risk of developing the condition, it's essential to monitor blood sugar levels and consult with a healthcare professional before starting a high intensity exercise program.
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Interesting.
How many carbs are you eating on a daily basis?
I feel pretty trashed after training heavy myself so that's pretty normal to me (age 67).
Usually, I train about an hour after waking and having a mug of coffee with halfnhalf.
Eat first meal between 10-12noon.
I don't eat many carbs except on weekends.
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Interesting.
How many carbs are you eating on a daily basis?
I feel pretty trashed after training heavy myself so that's pretty normal to me (age 67).
Usually, I train about an hour after waking and having a mug of coffee with halfnhalf.
Eat first meal between 10-12noon.
I don't eat many carbs except on weekends.
Id ballpark it in the 120 grams per day range
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Id ballpark it in the 120 grams per day range
Cure Type 2 naturally...
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I doubt 'heavy lifting' has negative effects on diabetes in the longer run? At least I never heard of that... I don't know how relevant transient spikes are if at all ???
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I doubt 'heavy lifting' has negative effects on diabetes in the longer run? At least I never heard of that... I don't know how relevant transient spikes are if at all ???
ya i dont think it does at all, i have no doubt it spikes it up for a few hours, but not long run
i need to suck it up and take my carbs down to 50g or so per day
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Has your doctor or have you done any changes with your fat intake?
I had recently learned that for some people, dietary fats can mess with insulin resistance.
I had dealt with bad blood sugar issues for a long time…but once I lowered/severely limited dietary fats, my body feels so much better.
Just curious your opinion on this?
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ya i dont think it does at all, i have no doubt it spikes it up for a few hours, but not long run
i need to suck it up and take my carbs down to 50g or so per day
I'd be curious what effect actually having some quick-ish carbs before the workout might have on your glucose spikes, drops etc :D I just had the wild thought that some carbs might blunt the adrenaline/cortisol from hard training but I might be totally wrong... 8) I'm in the camp who doesn't think carbs/insulin are evil even for diabetics. I mean the glp-1 drugs which help with insulin sensitivity and glucose control in diabetics actually increase insulin if diabetic when glucose gets high, yet weight goes down.
Were you prescribed Metformin or something else? Did you take them?
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I'd be curious what effect actually having some quick-ish carbs before the workout might have on your glucose spikes, drops etc :D I just had the wild thought that some carbs might blunt the adrenaline/cortisol from hard training but I might be totally wrong... 8) I'm in the camp who doesn't think carbs/insulin are evil even for diabetics. I mean the glp-1 drugs which help with insulin sensitivity and glucose control in diabetics actually increase insulin if diabetic when glucose gets high, yet weight goes down.
Were you prescribed Metformin or something else? Did you take them?
ya im on 500mg metformin 2s day and have never missed it once
i know how to get it back into the correct range, i did it fast before and can do it again, i just need to stop fucking around in the food department
think ill stay on the heavy weights and drop the carbs wayyyy down
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Has your doctor or have you done any changes with your fat intake?
I had recently learned that for some people, dietary fats can mess with insulin resistance.
I had dealt with bad blood sugar issues for a long time…but once I lowered/severely limited dietary fats, my body feels so much better.
Just curious your opinion on this?
doctor didnt do anything and i never really thought about the fats
i have mct oil and fish oil, food fat i guess mostly comes from red meat
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ya i dont think it does at all, i have no doubt it spikes it up for a few hours, but not long run
i need to suck it up and take my carbs down to 50g or so per day
I don't think that would be smart to go that low.
1) How many carbs are taking prior to training?
2) What do you eat post workout?
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I don't think that would be smart to go that low.
1) How many carbs are taking prior to training?
2) What do you eat post workout?
i eat a small amount of oatmeal mixed with about 40 grams protein powder
post workout chicken/beef with small amount brown rice and veggies
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i eat a small amount of oatmeal mixed with about 40 grams protein powder
post workout chicken/beef with small amount brown rice and veggies
Not saying it's good or bad but I get the worst "sugar crashes" from whey shakes :D
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I like the idea to experiment with lower carbs.
Maybe R-Ala or Berberine could be an option too.
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I like the idea to experiment with lower carbs.
Maybe R-Ala or Berberine could be an option too.
ooo good reminder i took berberine right after i got diagnosed and it probably helped lower my A1C so fast
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Alpha Lipoic Acid can reduce blood sugar levels.
L-Cysteine (NAC) as well.
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Alpha Lipoic Acid can reduce blood sugar levels.
L-Cysteine (NAC) as well.
ALA could theoretically improve insulin action on the cells making it work more effectively. For lowering glucose it doesn't seem very effective though. It's prescribed in Germany for example to diabetics to hopefully reduce diabetic nerve damage and symptoms.
If I didn't have pancreatitis I personally would get on a glp-1 like retatrutide to increase insulin sensitivity among other things. Like I said these actually increase insulin levels if there is a "need" without worsening sensitivity.
I was reading about a supp for bodybuilders which promises to increase glucose disposal by increasing insulin levels without worsening sensitivity and without hindering muscle growth as apparently PPAR agonism can do.
This is a sales page obviously but it explains some mechanisms in the write-up of some GDA (glucose dispoal agent) ingredients popular in the supp world. For nerdy guys LOL
https://masupps.com/product/insuligen/
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i eat a small amount of oatmeal mixed with about 40 grams protein powder
post workout chicken/beef with small amount brown rice and veggies
Here's what I would look at. Testing blood sugar at various times.
1) Immediate after training
2) Immediate after the PW meal
3) 30 min after
4) 60 min after
someone already suggested but alpha lipoic acid supposedly helps....also the ol' chromium POLYnicotinate
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You need to go keto my guy or get on a better drug.
The weights are jacking up your cortisol most likely and that is causing insulin resistance. It's also frying your nervous system if you are going heavy which is coping with increased demand from glycation.
Keto is the solution.
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Steak & eggs diet will cure all your ills.
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You need to go keto my guy or get on a better drug.
The weights are jacking up your cortisol most likely and that is causing insulin resistance. It's also frying your nervous system if you are going heavy which is coping with increased demand from glycation.
Keto is the solution.
Im not a fan of keto so i think im gonna lift lighter and lower carbs
Love lifting heavy bit it really fucks me up
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Im not a fan of keto so i think im gonna lift lighter and lower carbs
Love lifting heavy bit it really fucks me up
you need to add in some HIT as well then.
Why dont you like keto?
Resistant starches would work as well.
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you need to add in some HIT as well then.
Why dont you like keto?
Resistant starches would work as well.
i like the odd carbs once in a while and just simply have no desire to do keto,...i can admit im not disciplined enough
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You need to go keto my guy or get on a better drug.
The weights are jacking up your cortisol most likely and that is causing insulin resistance. It's also frying your nervous system if you are going heavy which is coping with increased demand from glycation.
Keto is the solution.
He doesn't have cushings disease. Love how so many vilify cortisol....just like they do insulin.
Please expand on the "frying the nervous system" statement
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He doesn't have cushings disease. Love how so many vilify cortisol....just like they do insulin.
Please expand on the "frying the nervous system" statement
He doesn't need to have cushings to have cortisol spike post workout from heavy lifting, its pretty common particularly in metabolically challenged individuals.
Heavy weights increase CNS recruitment and require enhanced neural drive and can lead to overreaching pretty easy if there is already a poor metabolic milieu. I don;t know what this guys HBA1C is but diabetes is associated with abnormal HPA signalling as well and a bunch of other issues if you would like me to get into them?
I never vilified either, he has type 2 (maybe its type 5 or 6 ;D) or maybe type 1.5 lol, either way he has high insulin and systemic inflammation. Likely has masld (being a bodybuilder and all).
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He doesn't have cushings disease. Love how so many vilify cortisol....just like they do insulin.
Please expand on the "frying the nervous system" statement
krank, just tell me what to eat and ill eat it. You know I have complete faith in what you tell me
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Here's what I would look at. Testing blood sugar at various times.
1) Immediate after training
2) Immediate after the PW meal
3) 30 min after
4) 60 min after
someone already suggested but alpha lipoic acid supposedly helps....also the ol' chromium POLYnicotinate
Berberine has far better evidence and actually works for other things. However, he is already on an AMPK activator so the overlap would be moot for the most part.
Shit, acetic acid has better evidence then those items.
Also, have you heard of the dawn phenomenon? even normal cortisol release can exacerbate glucose levels and cause normal gluconeogenesis in the liver to be problematic.
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Berberine has far better evidence and actually works for other things. However, he is already on an AMPK activator so the overlap would be moot for the most part.
Shit, acetic acid has better evidence then those items.
Also, have you heard of the dawn phenomenon? even normal cortisol release can exacerbate glucose levels and cause normal gluconeogenesis in the liver to be problematic.
ya my readings are also 2 points higher on waking
i can keep my A!C in the 6.5 range which Im happy with considering it was 12.5 4 months ago
When I train super heavy and do a reading say an hour after its rocket high--as high as 11
when i do lighter training with cardio it can shootu p to 8 but i can get it back into the 6s pretty quick
when i do only cardio its very good and i have had it down to 5.5
zero doubt heavy training shoots it way up
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He doesn't need to have cushings to have cortisol spike post workout from heavy lifting, its pretty common particularly in metabolically challenged individuals.
Heavy weights increase CNS recruitment and require enhanced neural drive and can lead to overreaching pretty easy if there is already a poor metabolic milieu. I don;t know what this guys HBA1C is but diabetes is associated with abnormal HPA signalling as well and a bunch of other issues if you would like me to get into them?
I never vilified either, he has type 2 (maybe its type 5 or 6 ;D) or maybe type 1.5 lol, either way he has high insulin and systemic inflammation. Likely has masld (being a bodybuilder and all).
Big difference (imo) from a spike to 'jacking up'.
Any weight training will increase CNS activity, specifically the ANS. I found the study that examined this...while limited there really wasn't enough to say it will mess it up (per se). https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6805848/
I forgot what supps Josh uses, but one thing actually is supposed to help with insulin resistance.
He has said stuff about type-2, but 'system inflammation'? Thats a result of type-1 (mellitus) due to elevated cytokine production. To my knowledge, that is not a result of type-2
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Big difference (imo) from a spike to 'jacking up'.
Any weight training will increase CNS activity, specifically the ANS. I found the study that examined this...while limited there really wasn't enough to say it will mess it up (per se). https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6805848/
I forgot what supps Josh uses, but one thing actually is supposed to help with insulin resistance.
He has said stuff about type-2, but 'system inflammation'? Thats a result of type-1 (mellitus) due to elevated cytokine production. To my knowledge, that is not a result of type-2
im 100% type 2
heres a pic of all the supps i take
i take metformin for diabetes
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Big difference (imo) from a spike to 'jacking up'.
Any weight training will increase CNS activity, specifically the ANS. I found the study that examined this...while limited there really wasn't enough to say it will mess it up (per se). https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6805848/
I forgot what supps Josh uses, but one thing actually is supposed to help with insulin resistance.
He has said stuff about type-2, but 'system inflammation'? Thats a result of type-1 (mellitus) due to elevated cytokine production. To my knowledge, that is not a result of type-2
I am just trying to be helpful here, I am a doc, while no endocrinologist this stuff and particularly neuropsychiatric stuff is my bread and butter (cause I am insane and work out :D). I say that just so I dont have to be posting 20 pubmed links as I am lazy and currently doing a teaching rotation ;D
It can elevate cortisol quite acutely, it's well documented. So much so that it can cause impaired memory and learning. Which is likely related to cortisols effect on the hippocampus.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8957269/
Weight lifting is a hormetic stressor- technically damaging (so are fruits and veggies actually) but the response of the body is beneficial, only if and thats a big if, the allostatic load of the system can get back to allostasis. Heavy weights increase neural drive and recruitment and a higher HPA response because of the intensity.
His system with type 2 has systemic inflammation- its the likely cause of type 2 and most diseases- basically resistance causes oxidative stress and myokine/cytokine responses. The liver struggles to handle the load as well and that leads to all kinds of pro-inflammatory mediators being released into the system. Over time it worsens and beta cells begin to fail from oxidation amongst other things and you get type 2.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22252015/
you generally see higher crp, tnfa and nuclear factor kappa beta activation in type 2.
You are correct on the supplement, I was just fucking about.
What is likely going on here is he is lifting heavy, causing stress to the system which is already in overdrive, cortisol is released to dampen things, he has insulin resistance which cortisol is exacerbating leading to more insulin release then needed hence the fatigue and feeling shitty. There is likely a counter release of glucagon which does some odd shit to the body as well.
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ya my readings are also 2 points higher on waking
i can keep my A!C in the 6.5 range which Im happy with considering it was 12.5 4 months ago
When I train super heavy and do a reading say an hour after its rocket high--as high as 11
when i do lighter training with cardio it can shootu p to 8 but i can get it back into the 6s pretty quick
when i do only cardio its very good and i have had it down to 5.5
zero doubt heavy training shoots it way up
ya, you might want to try ashwagandha and glycine before bed to help cortisol secretion.
The fact that its going up that high tells me you are have significant beta cell dysfunction and you are struggling to produce enough insulin on top of the resistance to the insulin.
No medical advice but if I were you I would get on a low dose tirzepatide with the metformin. Metformin is pretty weak and you did all the heavy lifting getting your HBA1C down. You can expect about a 1% reduction from metformin and over 2% from tirz.
I would stay on both because of the synergistic effects on the heart and longevity and on the glp1/gip for the reduction in dementia and cog impairment that comes with beetus.
That combo with what you are doing will get you in the 5.5 range- remission so your risk ratios go back to a healthy persons.
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ya my readings are also 2 points higher on waking
i can keep my A!C in the 6.5 range which Im happy with considering it was 12.5 4 months ago
When I train super heavy and do a reading say an hour after its rocket high--as high as 11
when i do lighter training with cardio it can shootu p to 8 but i can get it back into the 6s pretty quick
when i do only cardio its very good and i have had it down to 5.5
zero doubt heavy training shoots it way up
A1C level represents an average over the preceding 3 months.
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"
oatmeal with protein powder and 2 eggs
protein shake
chicken andbeef on brown rice and veggies (EDO)
protein bar
chicken breast 2 pieces of carbonaut seeded bread
protein shake
50 grams protein of ground beef sometimes with a salad
protein bar
4 whole eggs 3 whites cheese omelette
maybe another protein shake
l carnitine preworkout
electrolytes/creatine during workout
15 grams creatine spread out"
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What's in the protein shakes and bars? Any carbs?
Finely powdered whey can spike glucose levels and thus insulin levels.
Excess protein also gets converted to glucose.
No need to eat 300+ g of protein a day.
Type 2 is an indication of insulin resistance.
Hope you took the time to watch the video I posted above.
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" oatmeal with protein powder and 2 eggs
protein shake
chicken andbeef on brown rice and veggies (EDO)
protein bar
chicken breast 2 pieces of carbonaut seeded bread
protein shake
50 grams protein of ground beef sometimes with a salad
protein bar
4 whole eggs 3 whites cheese omelette
maybe another protein shake
l carnitine preworkout
electrolytes/creatine during workout
15 grams creatine spread out"
>
What's in the protein shakes? Any carbs?
Finely powdered whey can spike glucose levels and thus insulin levels.
Type 2 is an indication of insulin resistance.
Hope you took the time to watch the video I posted above.
i watched the whole video yes
i have kicked out the oatmeal
here is the exact protein powder i take,...i cant do whey
i wont kick out the carbonaut---the macros are good on it and it keeps me sane--18g carbs between 2 pieces im totally fine with that
i only eat (ate) brown rice, giving that the boot too and going with higher veggies content
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i watched the whole video yes
i have kicked out the oatmeal
here is the exact protein powder i take,...i cant do whey
i wont kick out the carbonaut---the macros are good on it and it keeps me sane--18g carbs between 2 pieces im totally fine with that
i only eat (ate) brown rice, giving that the boot too and going with higher veggies content
You're doing well. Just some fine tuning to do.
Protein powder looks like a good choice except for excess dietary protein being converted to glucose.
Most likely the protein powder still can cause an insulin spike since it's quickly absorbed.
If you are eating low carb you should increase your fat intake.
But avoid trans fats and seed oils.
Cook with lard and tallow.
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i watched the whole video yes
i have kicked out the oatmeal
here is the exact protein powder i take,...i cant do whey
i wont kick out the carbonaut---the macros are good on it and it keeps me sane--18g carbs between 2 pieces im totally fine with that
i only eat (ate) brown rice, giving that the boot too and going with higher veggies content
As someone slightly lactose intolerant, whey causes stomach issues and even worsens eye allergies. I think it also causes some stomach issues for most people.
Vegan protein on the other hand causes no issues, easy to digest.
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You're doing well. Just some fine tuning to do.
Protein powder looks like a good choice except for excess dietary protein being converted to glucose.
If you are eating low carb you should increase your fat intake.
But avoid trans fats and seed oils.
Cook with lard and tallow.
I use mct and fish oil for fats
yes the excess protein into glucose makes a lot of sense
thanks man for the inputAs someone slightly lactose intolerant, whey causes stomach issues and even worsens eye allergies. I think it also causes some stomach issues for most people.
Vegan protein on the other hand causes no issues, easy to digest.
I totally get the eye allergy issues from whey, mine would water so bad and i couldnt figure it out for so long
ya the vegan goes down smooth and no bloating
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Necrosis, please don't get mad as this is intended as nonconfrontational :D It is my understanding that high reps "tax" the CNS more and causes more "central fatigue" compared to low reps, contrary to what most believe. Thus some trainers believe lower rep lifting is gentler and can be applied more often. Thoughts? In my experience lower rep 'heavy' lifting is less taxing.
Have you heard of the supplement Emodin? WRT to cortisol levels.
I haven' tried it but look at he "unbelievable" reviews, claims it can really be felt quickly:
https://gorillamind.com/products/cortisol-blocker
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Necrosis, please don't get mad as this is intended as nonconfrontational :D It is my understanding that high reps "tax" the CNS more and causes more "central fatigue" compared to low reps, contrary to what most believe. Thus some trainers believe lower rep lifting is gentler and can be applied more often. Thoughts? In my experience lower rep 'heavy' lifting is less taxing.
Have you heard of the supplement Emodin? WRT to cortisol levels.
I haven' tried it but look at he "unbelievable" reviews, claims it can really be felt quickly:
https://gorillamind.com/products/cortisol-blocker
Being a social retard I will take any reply to my posts as an existential threat and respond accordingly.
I think the intensity matters more so. I don't know if thats a fact though. With heavy weight you generally need to recruit more motor units to move the weight so more CNS activation. With higher reps you can get there by going to failure.
With the higher reps you do accumulate more metabolites that cause fatigue but I am not sure if this is central (CNS) or local.
I am familiar with the 11bhsd1 enzyme and there was another product that blocked it. It would be better then the supps I suggested for sure. I recall using something about 15 years ago for this purpose but it made me feel like shit and super tired. I am a bit iffy on bioperine if you are on meds, other the n that its fine.
I actually may try this supp, thanks!! :D
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I am familiar with the 11bhsd1 enzyme and there was another product that blocked it. It would be better then the supps I suggested for sure. I recall using something about 15 years ago for this purpose but it made me feel like shit and super tired. I am a bit iffy on bioperine if you are on meds, other the n that its fine.
I actually may try this supp, thanks!! :D
7-Keto-DHEA?
"7-Keto-DHEA is thought to regulate the local cortisol activity through competitive inhibition of this key enzyme, as this favors the production of 7 β -OH-DHEA over that of active glucocorticoids [8]."
I think it had poor oral bioavailability, Patrick Arnold sold it as a transdermal. This Emodin stuff they speculate might be 'too effective' so should probably only be used for short periods. I was thinking of using it with my MK-677 as MK may actually worsen some peoples' sleep due to some cortisol spiking. I don't know if those reviews are fake or bot generated but as I said there are claims of actually feeling it acutely.
EDIT: Necrosis, I bet you are a master of finding data and mechanisms and theory on various things LOL; if you do look up CNS fatigue and how it relates to low and high reps I'd be interested in your take. Asking AI of course brings up the metabolite accumulation and also increased inflammation from higher; mostly due to simply higher volume. I don't know if you've noticed but in the community there's internet wars regarding the meme "all you ever need for strength and bodybuilding is 4-8 reps and going higher is stupid; you just accumulate needless fatigue before you get to the effective reps." :D So some coaches now advocate just lower reps and some actually think you should avoid the last rep because it's not "needed" and is too fatiguing.
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Yes that was it, it was transdermal. It also spiked my anxiety
I think there is actually a cortisol tester one can buy, I haven't looked into it, it was actually my wife who mentioned it recently. How accurate it is I do not know but one could take it before and after the drug/supp.
Cortisol has a diurnal rhythm so it would make sense to do morning and night and avoid midday with a supp like this.
I don't know a ton about the GH peptides but am definitely interested in them. I am interested in slu-pp and mots-c as well.
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I don't know a ton about the GH peptides but am definitely interested in them. I am interested in slu-pp and mots-c as well.
The MK is extremely "effective" to increase IGF-1 bit has serious side-effects such as extreme water retention and insane appetite (for me positive), and might theoretically make your brain more anxiety prone, very bad for insulin sensitivity as well. Stacking MK-677 with the GHRH CJC-1295 DAC reportedly gives IGF-1 levels equal to about 10iu of GH but it induces a potentially harmful "GH bleed" throughout the day. I've started taking MK a week after recent gallbladder surgery and am up about 25lbs now after about 20 days. I unfortunately had to be checked in again into hospital over the weekend and they said my salt balance was off and gave me 20mg Lasix IV yesterday and it didn't even do anything as far as weight :-X ::) :D
Those peps you mention are all interesting to me and dozen others LOL, but I'm unfortunately constrained by finances; but perhaps it's for the better with my personality.
I just saw some reels about "slup" and they were fighting over effective dosages, some adviced micrograms, others hundreds of milligrams, another reel said it had to be mixed with DMSO instead of bac water or it wasn't even bioavailable :D
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The MK is extremely "effective" to increase IGF-1 bit has serious side-effects such as extreme water retention and insane appetite (for me positive), and might theoretically make your brain more anxiety prone, very bad for insulin sensitivity as well. Stacking MK-677 with the GHRH CJC-1295 DAC reportedly gives IGF-1 levels equal to about 10iu of GH but it induces a potentially harmful "GH bleed" throughout the day. I've started taking MK a week after recent gallbladder surgery and am up about 25lbs now after about 20 days. I unfortunately had to be checked in again into hospital over the weekend and they said my salt balance was off and gave me 20mg Lasix IV yesterday and it didn't even do anything as far as weight :-X ::) :D
Those peps you mention are all interesting to me and dozen others LOL, but I'm unfortunately constrained by finances; but perhaps it's for the better with my personality.
I just saw some reels about "slup" and they were fighting over effective dosages, some adviced micrograms, others hundreds of milligrams, another reel said it had to be mixed with DMSO instead of bac water or it wasn't even bioavailable :D
Ya I would love to go ham on that shit but I have a strong family history of beetus and feel like I would be dumb to risk it.
the mito stuff interests me for longevity and the energy benefits. I am always trying to cram more learning, study and work into my day and the limiter is cognitive fatigue. Stims can offset this to a degree but they have consequences that are cumulative which make consistent usage shitty.
If I had a fitness goal or strength goal I would be all over that shit as you are but I don't.
Peptides are the future though :D
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I am just trying to be helpful here, I am a doc, while no endocrinologist this stuff and particularly neuropsychiatric stuff is my bread and butter (cause I am insane and work out :D). I say that just so I dont have to be posting 20 pubmed links as I am lazy and currently doing a teaching rotation ;D
huh... how many rona shots, homie?
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huh... how many rona shots, homie?
I did both moderna and pfizer and have been double dipping on boosters. i am up to 14 right now and unless someone cuts me off or stops me I will keep getting them until I can't.
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I did both moderna and pfizer and have been double dipping on boosters. i am up to 14 right now and unless someone cuts me off or stops me I will keep getting them until I can't.
Quoted for the archives.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/385/620/d84.png)
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I doubt 'heavy lifting' has negative effects on diabetes in the longer run? At least I never heard of that... I don't know how relevant transient spikes are if at all ???
Resistance training resensitizes your muscles to insulin. Keep in mind type 2 is technically muscle insulin resistance. Your fat cells never become resistant.
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Quoted for the archives.
Make that 15, my immunity is down from this post.
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The Hidden Dangers of Whey Protein
https://lillihealth.com/the-hidden-dangers-of-whey-protein/
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I did both moderna and pfizer and have been double dipping on boosters. i am up to 14 right now and unless someone cuts me off or stops me I will keep getting them until I can't.
I've had more than that. The first two years, I used my fake ID (the one that I use to vote multiple times) to double dip. Next month will be my 20th shot or 18th boost.
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u r quite the blowtard.
can any of your ancestry b traced back to india, at all?
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ya my readings are also 2 points higher on waking
i can keep my A!C in the 6.5 range which Im happy with considering it was 12.5 4 months ago
When I train super heavy and do a reading say an hour after its rocket high--as high as 11
when i do lighter training with cardio it can shootu p to 8 but i can get it back into the 6s pretty quick
when i do only cardio its very good and i have had it down to 5.5
zero doubt heavy training shoots it way up
You get a high reading after working out because your body has been mobilizing glucose stores to supply you with energy. Its not anything to be concerned about.
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u r quite the blowtard.
can any of your ancestry b traced back to india, at all?
I do have a bindi
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I've had more than that. The first two years, I used my fake ID (the one that I use to vote multiple times) to double dip. Next month will be my 20th shot or 18th boost.
Mind blowing retardation. Fucking hell how scared are you of a flu?
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I did both moderna and pfizer and have been double dipping on boosters. i am up to 14 right now and unless someone cuts me off or stops me I will keep getting them until I can't.
True to your name retard.
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I've had more than that. The first two years, I used my fake ID (the one that I use to vote multiple times) to double dip. Next month will be my 20th shot or 18th boost.
Quoted for archives.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/385/620/d84.png)
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Mind blowing retardation. Fucking hell how scared are you of a flu?
Are you autistic? this feels like projection.
We are joking obviously ffs. Ya man he used his fake id which he used to vote fraudulently to horde vaccine shots in his anus.
Just in case you still don't understand whats going on here, I have one shot as I had to for work.
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I am just trying to be helpful here, I am a doc, while no endocrinologist this stuff and particularly neuropsychiatric stuff is my bread and butter (cause I am insane and work out :D). I say that just so I dont have to be posting 20 pubmed links as I am lazy and currently doing a teaching rotation ;D
It can elevate cortisol quite acutely, it's well documented. So much so that it can cause impaired memory and learning. Which is likely related to cortisols effect on the hippocampus.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8957269/
Weight lifting is a hormetic stressor- technically damaging (so are fruits and veggies actually) but the response of the body is beneficial, only if and thats a big if, the allostatic load of the system can get back to allostasis. Heavy weights increase neural drive and recruitment and a higher HPA response because of the intensity.
His system with type 2 has systemic inflammation- its the likely cause of type 2 and most diseases- basically resistance causes oxidative stress and myokine/cytokine responses. The liver struggles to handle the load as well and that leads to all kinds of pro-inflammatory mediators being released into the system. Over time it worsens and beta cells begin to fail from oxidation amongst other things and you get type 2.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22252015/
you generally see higher crp, tnfa and nuclear factor kappa beta activation in type 2.
You are correct on the supplement, I was just fucking about.
What is likely going on here is he is lifting heavy, causing stress to the system which is already in overdrive, cortisol is released to dampen things, he has insulin resistance which cortisol is exacerbating leading to more insulin release then needed hence the fatigue and feeling shitty. There is likely a counter release of glucagon which does some odd shit to the body as well.
Oh, so you wanna get into a pubmed posting war, huh? ;D
I can totally agree with the acute spike of cortisol, but again so many make cortisol out to be worse than agent smith. Yes, the heavy lifting can elevate it because the HPA axis thinks we’re trying to not get Clegged. We can agree that in a healthy system, that’s adaptive: cortisol mobilizes glucose and fats, then insulin cleans up the mess.
For Josh's type 2, the “cleanup crew” is on strike. What is interesting (and confusing to me) is that he is using metformin and berberine and shouldn't be getting this kind of spiking (safe assumption). I will admit that I am not highly knowledgable about the drug side of things. Could it be that with the low carb and then meds, his pancreas is still trying to pump out insulin, while glucagon is acting like DJ181818181??
HArd to argue that resistance training is not still the best way to fix the mess—it as it will improve insulin sensitivity and "lowers" inflammation—but in the short term the hormonal rollercoaster is a bit rougher when the system’s already overloaded.
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Are you autistic? this feels like projection.
We are joking obviously ffs. Ya man he used his fake id which he used to vote fraudulently to horde vaccine shots in his anus.
Just in case you still don't understand whats going on here, I have one shot as I had to for work.
Must be then.
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Berberine has far better evidence and actually works for other things. However, he is already on an AMPK activator so the overlap would be moot for the most part.
Shit, acetic acid has better evidence then those items.
Also, have you heard of the dawn phenomenon? even normal cortisol release can exacerbate glucose levels and cause normal gluconeogenesis in the liver to be problematic.
Wouldn't the berberine + metformin control dawn phenomenon by slowing down the liver’s “sugar dump.” Obviously the dose of the two, carb intake, and timing matter, but thats why I was suggesting tracking glucose to make sure he's not fixing the dawn rise by creating problems later. Again, When it comes to pharms...thats not my forte'.
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" oatmeal with protein powder and 2 eggs
protein shake
chicken andbeef on brown rice and veggies (EDO)
protein bar
chicken breast 2 pieces of carbonaut seeded bread
protein shake
50 grams protein of ground beef sometimes with a salad
protein bar
4 whole eggs 3 whites cheese omelette
maybe another protein shake
l carnitine preworkout
electrolytes/creatine during workout
15 grams creatine spread out"
>
What's in the protein shakes and bars? Any carbs?
Finely powdered whey can spike glucose levels and thus insulin levels.
Excess protein also gets converted to glucose.
No need to eat 300+ g of protein a day.
Type 2 is an indication of insulin resistance.
Hope you took the time to watch the video I posted above.
I think the whey protein thing has to be taken in context....when comparing fast-absorbing whey isolate or hydrolysate with casein, yes...whey will raise BS. I don't think there is any product called 'coarse' whey protein. Where did you see this with "fine powdered"?
Also, to clarify...protein doesn't get converted to glucose. SOME amino acids are gluconeogenic...while others are ketogenic.
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I did both moderna and pfizer and have been double dipping on boosters. i am up to 14 right now and unless someone cuts me off or stops me I will keep getting them until I can't.
Rookie numbers... ;D
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Wouldn't the berberine + metformin control dawn phenomenon by slowing down the liver’s “sugar dump.” Obviously the dose of the two, carb intake, and timing matter, but thats why I was suggesting tracking glucose to make sure he's not fixing the dawn rise by creating problems later. Again, When it comes to pharms...thats not my forte'.
It should but it would depend on the severity of the type 2 and the normal cortisol spike in the am that blunts insulins action. Metformin mostly acts through ampk and so does berberine, there are other mechanisms but hitting other pathways may be the best way to combat it.
I don't know if its the case but I think acetic acid (apple cider vinegar) before bed might help as well.
If he could lose weight the dawn phenomenon shouldn't be an issue mostly.
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It should but it would depend on the severity of the type 2 and the normal cortisol spike in the am that blunts insulins action. Metformin mostly acts through ampk and so does berberine, there are other mechanisms but hitting other pathways may be the best way to combat it.
I don't know if its the case but I think acetic acid (apple cider vinegar) before bed might help as well.
If he could lose weight the dawn phenomenon shouldn't be an issue mostly.
Side question, not to derail Josh's thins, but what are your thoughts on a small carb meal before bed. Been reading more on producing tryptophan and melatonin before bed helps. I am not a big fan on exogenous consumption of melatonin. Currently I do about 150gm of cottage cheese with a slice of bread and a blend of frozen tart cherry mixed with some magnesium, GABA, and l-theonine
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Some stuff on the CNS fatigue, reference links in the article:
Myth 1: The higher the exercise intensity, the more CNS fatigue you induce
CNS fatigue is commonly said to occur from exercise with large neural demands, namely high intensity exercise. So the theory is that low reps induce more CNS fatigue than high reps. It sounds very plausible. The higher the training intensity, the CNS activation is required, the more fatigued the CNS gets, right?
Wrong. It’s completely the other way around. Low intensity, high duration exercise causes far more central fatigue than short, high intensity exercise [2, 3, 4].
CNS fatigue is readily observed after endurance exercise, like marathons, but scientists often really have to go out of their way to reliably induce central nervous system fatigue with strength training.
Barnes et al. (2017) directly studied the claim that deadlifts cause more CNS fatigue than squats. They had trained men perform 8 sets of 2 reps at 95% of 1RM with 5 minutes of rest in between sets in the squat and deadlift on separate occasions. These heavy-duty powerlifting workouts indeed resulted in central fatigue, though not all that much: a 5-10% reduction in central neural output. In spite of the higher weights used, greater amount of musculature involved in and greater total work performed during the deadlifts, the deadlifts did not result in more central fatigue than the squats. There was also no significant difference in testosterone or cortisol production.
https://mennohenselmans.com/cns-fatigue/#:~:text=In%20any%20case%2C%20high%20activation,CNS%20fatigue%20than%20higher%20reps.
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Been reading more on producing tryptophan and melatonin before bed helps. I am not a big fan on exogenous consumption of melatonin.
I am currently taking an extremely high dose of melatonin for theoretical benefits, for example might help protect my pancreas since I have active pancreatitis at this minute. I'm taking 30mg, dosage based on nothing much, have to look up what kind of dosages are proposed. That Leo Longevity madman said he had found a 400mg Melatonin suppository on Amazon he was going to try.
Melatonin has a protective and restorative role in acute pancreatitis due to its potent antioxidant properties and its ability to activate antioxidant enzymes, suppress pro-inflammatory cytokines, and reduce tissue damage and necrosis.
Melatonin has a protective and restorative role in acute pancreatitis due to its potent antioxidant properties and its ability to activate antioxidant enzymes, suppress pro-inflammatory cytokines, and reduce tissue damage and necrosis.
Same kind of data wrt to putative liver and kidney protection can be found.
My post is way O/T too but I don't think especially your useful post derail anything, anything about related topics can only help overall understanding... IMHO at least. :D
Since insulin sensitivity is discussed, taking melatonin in the daytime cause acute insulin resistance which is interesting.
Some "gurus" have recommended the following when not getting optimal sleep and still wanting to perform optimally:
First night after having suboptimal sleep or knowing you won't get enough that night:
10mg Melatonin at night, 10 grams of creatine in the morning. 2nd night double initial dosage of both, 3rd day add another 10mg Mela and 10g creatine in the morning. I would maybe add tyrosine with the creatine. This is just for conversation, no recommendation ;) 8)
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I wore a Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM) for a year. I was on a strict carnivore diet, still am.
My glucose was always slightly elevated upon weaking up in the morning, dawn phenomenon.
When I ate my steak or ground beef, my glucose stayed the same or even dropped slightly some times.
When I walked on the treadmill with an incline, my glucose stayed the same.
When I lifted weights, my glucose jumped 30-40 mg/dL. This is normal. Your body knows you'll need more quick burning energy when lifting/sprinting.
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I wore a Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM) for a year. I was on a strict carnivore diet, still am.
My glucose was always slightly elevated upon weaking up in the morning, dawn phenomenon.
When I ate my steak or ground beef, my glucose stayed the same or even drop slightly some times.
When I walked on the treadmill with an incline, my glucose stayed the same.
When I lifted weights, my glucose jumped 30-40 mg/dL. This is normal. Your body knows you'll need more quick burning energy when lifting/sprinting.
good post thanks for info
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Oh, so you wanna get into a pubmed posting war, huh? ;D
I can totally agree with the acute spike of cortisol, but again so many make cortisol out to be worse than agent smith. Yes, the heavy lifting can elevate it because the HPA axis thinks we’re trying to not get Clegged. We can agree that in a healthy system, that’s adaptive: cortisol mobilizes glucose and fats, then insulin cleans up the mess.
For Josh's type 2, the “cleanup crew” is on strike. What is interesting (and confusing to me) is that he is using metformin and berberine and shouldn't be getting this kind of spiking (safe assumption). I will admit that I am not highly knowledgable about the drug side of things. Could it be that with the low carb and then meds, his pancreas is still trying to pump out insulin, while glucagon is acting like DJ181818181??
HArd to argue that resistance training is not still the best way to fix the mess—it as it will improve insulin sensitivity and "lowers" inflammation—but in the short term the hormonal rollercoaster is a bit rougher when the system’s already overloaded.
ya the pubmed wars are tiring lol, especially since I dont have any of the data handy, i'm relying on trust me bro :D
Resistence training does appear to be the best solution, I recall a study done to ascertain this, cardio had the best immediate effects which I think is expected but for HBA1C resistance training proved superior. I would suspect if you combine then in high rep, superset training- like agonist and antagonist he might not see a spike at all.
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Side question, not to derail Josh's thins, but what are your thoughts on a small carb meal before bed. Been reading more on producing tryptophan and melatonin before bed helps. I am not a big fan on exogenous consumption of melatonin. Currently I do about 150gm of cottage cheese with a slice of bread and a blend of frozen tart cherry mixed with some magnesium, GABA, and l-theonine
I don't see any downside if you are healthy. The insulin will suppress cortisol to a point so thats a good thing. I am unsure if there is any studies on the matter. I can have a look
I am a big fan of glycine prior to bed, it appears to increase delta wave sleep, appears to lower core temp which is good, lowers cortisol.
I also agree with your thoughts on cortisol- its absolutely required and healthy, its the context that matters and type 2- especially with a HBA1C of 12 at one point is severe metabolic damage so all his shit is going to be out of wack for a long time, unfortunately. 12 is really god damn high and his blood must of been sludge.
Your sleep regimen is sound and researched, i would probably do magnesium threonate if you arent
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I wore a Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM) for a year. I was on a strict carnivore diet, still am.
My glucose was always slightly elevated upon weaking up in the morning, dawn phenomenon.
When I ate my steak or ground beef, my glucose stayed the same or even drop slightly some times.
When I walked on the treadmill with an incline, my glucose stayed the same.
When I lifted weights, my glucose jumped 30-40 mg/dL. This is normal. Your body knows you'll need more quick burning energy when lifting/sprinting.
Yes but are you still in range and do you have type 2 diabetes? It should not go out of range in metabolically healthy folks. You are also likely inducing peripheral insulin resistance eating the way you are but it won't matter as you don't eat carbs. I think keto is fantastic for so many things.
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Some stuff on the CNS fatigue, reference links in the article:
I will have a look at the studies they are citing. Thanks and how dare you :D
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True to your name retard.
:D No shit.
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Yes but are you still in range and do you have type 2 diabetes? It should not go out of range in metabolically healthy folks. You are also likely inducing peripheral insulin resistance eating the way you are but it won't matter as you don't eat carbs. I think keto is fantastic for so many things.
No type 2 diabetes. My fasting glucose, fasting insulin, A1C, and HOMA-IR are all normal to optimal.
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No type 2 diabetes. My fasting glucose, fasting insulin, A1C, and HOMA-IR are all normal to optimal.
Why are you doing carnivore?
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Why are you doing carnivore?
I started to help prevent or delay dementia, which runs in my family. I've stuck with it consistently for 6 years because of the multitude of health benefits I've discovered and enjoyed while eating this way, and because it's freaking delicious. I love it.
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I have one shot as I had to for work.
I understand.
Rookie numbers... ;D
what about you, slick… what are your numbers looking like?
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I started to help prevent or delay dementia, which runs in my family. I've stuck with it consistently for 6 years because of the multitude of health benefits I've discovered and enjoyed while eating this way, and because it's freaking delicious. I love it.
are you a lean mass hyperresponder?
what is your LDL like?
I am thinking about doing it as I love the way I feel on keto.
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are you a lean mass hyperresponder?
I don't believe my LDL is high enough or my Triglycerides low enough to qualify, but as I get leaner my numbers may change to the point I will be considered a lean mass hyper-responder.
what is your LDL like?
My LDL did go up after I started keto/carnivore. It was 181 mg/dL when I checked last year. It fluctuates up and down by about 10 mg/dL every time I check it. I believe most lean mass hyper-responders have LDL levels greater than 200 mg/dL.
My Triglycerides dropped down to 64 mg/dL. My HDL increased to 56 mg/dL. I reversed hypertension after fighting it for decades. I lost 34 lbs of excess body fat. So my overall heart health actually improved despite my increased LDL.
After 5 years of consistent exposure to high LDL levels, I finally did a Coronary Artery Calcium (CAC) test and my score is zero.
After entering my numbers into the American College of Cardiology ASCVD Risk Estimator below, my risk of developing Atherosclerotic Cardiovascular Disease in the next 10 years is less than 4% despite my high LDL.
https://tools.acc.org/ascvd-risk-estimator-plus/#!/calculate/estimate/
My increased LDL is most likely an increase in the proportion of larger, less harmful LDL particles while decreasing the proportion of smaller, dense LDL particles, which are more strongly linked to heart disease. This is very commonly seen in people who have an increased LDL induced by a keto/carnivore diet. One of these days I'm going to pay out-of-pocket for a LDL particle size test just to satisfy my curiosity.
I am thinking about doing it as I love the way I feel on keto.
Go for it, only way to find out whether it works for you.
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Here's my labs before and after doing keto/carnivore/low carb.
No bloodwork in 2020.
Lost 25 lbs since starting low carb/carnivore. I cheat on the weekends.
I seem to be a lean mass hyper-responder from what I've read about it.
67 years old now.
I chart it out like this for reference.
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Here's my labs before and after doing keto/carnivore/low carb.
No bloodwork in 2020.
Fasting glucose was 88 last time.
I seem to be a lean mass hyper-responder from what I've read about it.
67 years old now.
I chart it out like this for reference.
Impressive! I wish I had done more blood work before keto/carnivore and tracked it like you have.
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Here's my labs before and after doing keto/carnivore/low carb.
No bloodwork in 2020.
Fasting glucose was 88 last time.
Lost 25 lbs since starting low carb/carnivore. I cheat on the weekends.
I seem to be a lean mass hyper-responder from what I've read about it.
67 years old now.
I chart it out like this for reference.
Did you post videos of you training some time here? Someone was lifting outside if I recall...
You're doing the DiPasquale 'Anabolic Diet' 5 days no carb, carb loading for 2 days :D
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Here's my labs before and after doing keto/carnivore/low carb.
No bloodwork in 2020.
Fasting glucose was 88 last time.
Lost 25 lbs since starting low carb/carnivore. I cheat on the weekends.
I seem to be a lean mass hyper-responder from what I've read about it.
67 years old now.
I chart it out like this for reference.
I think the lipid energy model explains the lean mass hyper responder phenotype to a degree, probably all the keto folks but there is something unique among that phenotype going on.
Ketones, namely BHB seem to have a plethora of health benefits, from neurons to gut cells (like do to butyrate activity). The only negative health wise I have seen is that there is a degree of peripheral insulin resistance that occurs, but this also occurs with substantial fasting and it may simply be a shift away from carbs to upregulating things like hormone sensitive lipase.
Only downside I notice is I seem to get a bit flat on keto and definitely look smaller.
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Did you post videos of you training some time here? Someone was lifting outside if I recall...
You're doing the DiPasquale 'Anabolic Diet' 5 days no carb, carb loading for 2 days :D
No vids for me but I workout in my garage sometimes with the door open. ;D
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The only negative health wise I have seen is that there is a degree of peripheral insulin resistance that occurs, but this also occurs with substantial fasting and it may simply be a shift away from carbs to upregulating things like hormone sensitive lipase.
Dr. Ben Bikman, whose research at BYU focuses on the causes and consequences of insulin resistance, says that what you're describing isn't insulin resistance. Instead, it's temporary glucose intolerance caused by a lack of pre-formed insulin in pancreatic beta cells:
At 55:28
Only downside I notice is I seem to get a bit flat on keto and definitely look smaller.
This is because of the depletion of glycogen and fluids within muscles. This too is temporary. Once your body is fully fat adapted, glycogen stores are restored and muscles look full again. However, full fat adaptation can take up to six months for some people, and you have to stay consistently on a keto/carnivore diet.
You also have to make sure you don't undereat, which is very easy to do eating this way for many people because protein and fat are so satiating.
And you have to make sure you don't undertrain because of a lack of energy. You have to consume adequate fat and drink plenty of water and sodium before lifting to increase blood volume and make sure you feel energized. Feeling low energy when training on keto/carnivore is temporary too, until you are fully fat adapted.
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I understand.
what about you, slick… what are your numbers looking like?
5 shots a month....thats how a true thong warrior rolls.
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Dr. Ben Bikman, whose research at BYU focuses on the causes and consequences of insulin resistance, says that what you're describing isn't insulin resistance. Instead, it's temporary glucose intolerance caused by a lack of pre-formed insulin in pancreatic beta cells:
At 55:28
This is because of the depletion of glycogen and fluids within muscles. This too is temporary. Once your body is fully fat adapted, glycogen stores are restored and muscles look full again. However, full fat adaptation can take up to six months for some people, and you have to stay consistently on a keto/carnivore diet.
You also have to make sure you don't undereat, which is very easy to do eating this way for many people because protein and fat are so satiating.
And you have to make sure you don't undertrain because of a lack of energy. You have to consume adequate fat and drink plenty of water and sodium before lifting to increase blood volume and make sure you feel energized. Feeling low energy when training on keto/carnivore is temporary too, until you are fully fat adapted.
That is likely true on the insulin resistance issue. It occurs in extended fasting as well, I believe there have been studies examining this and insulin levels (in toto) are normal with carb challenge though. There is a lacuna here though. I would argue that keto is not the same as fasting as protein will stimulate insulin, leucine does etc so there would still be a response, pure fasting is likely a different beast from lack of intake and not being in a fed state.
I have listened to his stuff. Another great guy is nick norwitz he is a phd md from harvard and was one of the authors on the LMHR diet study.
I have probably done it for 6 months or so, there is a degree of undereating and lack of pump from that no doubt. I am not over meticulous when it comes to that stuff, I don't track etc.. I do measure ketones in the blood or have, thats about it.
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I have probably done it for 6 months or so, there is a degree of undereating and lack of pump from that no doubt.
Without debating the usefulness of doing it, doing heavy carb up days after zero carbing can be fun, depending on what you think fun of course LOL. The weight shifts and pumps and cosmetic effects can be wild. I only competed once but I did that DiPasquale Anabolic Diet/Dan Duchaine Body Opus diet of 5 days zero carbs and a circa 2 day carb load. Later Lyle McDonald perfected that type of diet with his Ultimate Diet 2.0 according to Duchaine. Weight could shift by as much as 25lbs during the weekly phases. I think the body probably looked best after going back on zero carbs for about 24 hours, glycogen still there but some water was shed again. I should do that type of diet now I think but I'm apparently too lazy or not vain enough. How much could I gain in say a 36 hour carb load now going from glycogen depleted and then loading with 100iu Lantus and Novolog with ever meal? :D
No vids for me but I workout in my garage sometimes with the door open. ;D
Aha ok. I'm 48 and had the impression you were maybe 5-10 of years older than me. Good going with the health markers and weight. I hope I'm still alive and can deadlift at least a little at 67 8)