Glucose Taking a Beating From Weights

[CalorieKing]

He doesn't have cushings disease.  Love how so many vilify cortisol....just like they do insulin. 

Please expand on the "frying the nervous system" statement

krank, just tell me what to eat and ill eat it. You know I have complete faith in what you tell me

[Necrosis]

Here's what I would look at.  Testing blood sugar at various times.

1) Immediate after training
2) Immediate after the PW meal
3) 30 min after
4) 60 min after

someone already suggested but alpha lipoic acid supposedly helps....also the ol' chromium POLYnicotinate

Berberine has far better evidence and actually works for other things. However, he is already on an AMPK activator so the overlap would be moot for the most part.

Shit, acetic acid has better evidence then those items.

Also, have you heard of the dawn phenomenon? even normal cortisol release can exacerbate glucose levels and cause normal gluconeogenesis in the liver to be problematic.

[CalorieKing]

Berberine has far better evidence and actually works for other things. However, he is already on an AMPK activator so the overlap would be moot for the most part.

Shit, acetic acid has better evidence then those items.

Also, have you heard of the dawn phenomenon? even normal cortisol release can exacerbate glucose levels and cause normal gluconeogenesis in the liver to be problematic.

ya my readings are also 2 points higher on waking

i can keep my A!C in the 6.5 range which Im happy with considering it was 12.5 4 months ago
When I train super heavy and do a reading say an hour after its rocket high--as high as 11
when i do lighter training with cardio it can shootu p to 8 but i can get it back into the 6s pretty quick
when i do only cardio its very good and i have had it down to 5.5

zero doubt heavy training shoots it way up

[Krankenstein]

He doesn't need to have cushings to have cortisol spike post workout from heavy lifting, its pretty common particularly in metabolically challenged individuals.

Heavy weights increase CNS recruitment and require enhanced neural drive and can lead to overreaching pretty easy if there is already a poor metabolic milieu. I don;t know what this guys HBA1C is but diabetes is associated with abnormal HPA signalling as well and a bunch of other issues if you would like me to get into them?

I never vilified either, he has type 2 (maybe its type 5 or 6  ) or maybe type 1.5 lol, either way he has high insulin and systemic inflammation. Likely has  masld (being a bodybuilder and all).

Big difference (imo) from a spike to 'jacking up'. 

Any weight training will increase CNS activity, specifically the ANS.  I found the study that examined this...while limited there really wasn't enough to say it will mess it up (per se).  https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6805848/

I forgot what supps Josh uses, but one thing actually is supposed to help with insulin resistance.   

He has said stuff about type-2, but 'system inflammation'?  Thats a result of type-1 (mellitus) due to elevated cytokine production.  To my knowledge, that is not a result of type-2

[CalorieKing]

Big difference (imo) from a spike to 'jacking up'. 

Any weight training will increase CNS activity, specifically the ANS.  I found the study that examined this...while limited there really wasn't enough to say it will mess it up (per se).  https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6805848/

I forgot what supps Josh uses, but one thing actually is supposed to help with insulin resistance.   

He has said stuff about type-2, but 'system inflammation'?  Thats a result of type-1 (mellitus) due to elevated cytokine production.  To my knowledge, that is not a result of type-2

im 100% type 2
heres a pic of all the supps i take
i take metformin for diabetes

[Necrosis]

Big difference (imo) from a spike to 'jacking up'. 

Any weight training will increase CNS activity, specifically the ANS.  I found the study that examined this...while limited there really wasn't enough to say it will mess it up (per se).  https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6805848/

I forgot what supps Josh uses, but one thing actually is supposed to help with insulin resistance.   

He has said stuff about type-2, but 'system inflammation'?  Thats a result of type-1 (mellitus) due to elevated cytokine production.  To my knowledge, that is not a result of type-2

I am just trying to be helpful here, I am a doc, while no endocrinologist this stuff and particularly neuropsychiatric stuff is my bread and butter (cause I am insane and work out ). I say that just so I dont have to be posting 20 pubmed links as I am lazy and currently doing a teaching rotation 

It can elevate cortisol quite acutely, it's well documented. So much so that it can cause impaired memory and learning. Which is likely related to cortisols effect on the hippocampus.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8957269/

Weight lifting is a hormetic stressor- technically damaging (so are fruits and veggies actually) but the response of the body is beneficial, only if and thats a big if, the allostatic load of the system can get back to allostasis. Heavy weights increase neural drive and recruitment and a higher HPA response because of the intensity.

His system with type 2 has systemic inflammation- its the likely cause of type 2 and most diseases- basically resistance causes oxidative stress and myokine/cytokine responses. The liver struggles to handle the load as well and that leads to all kinds of pro-inflammatory mediators being released into the system. Over time it worsens and beta cells begin to fail from oxidation amongst other things and you get type 2.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22252015/

you generally see higher crp, tnfa and nuclear factor kappa beta activation in type 2.

You are correct on the supplement, I was just fucking about.

What is likely going on here is he is lifting heavy, causing stress to the system which is already in overdrive, cortisol is released to dampen things, he has insulin resistance which cortisol is exacerbating leading to more insulin release then needed hence the fatigue and feeling shitty. There is likely a counter release of glucagon which does some odd shit to the body as well.

[Necrosis]

ya my readings are also 2 points higher on waking

i can keep my A!C in the 6.5 range which Im happy with considering it was 12.5 4 months ago
When I train super heavy and do a reading say an hour after its rocket high--as high as 11
when i do lighter training with cardio it can shootu p to 8 but i can get it back into the 6s pretty quick
when i do only cardio its very good and i have had it down to 5.5

zero doubt heavy training shoots it way up

ya, you might want to try ashwagandha and glycine before bed to help cortisol secretion.

The fact that its going up that high tells me you are have significant beta cell dysfunction and you are struggling to produce enough insulin on top of the resistance to the insulin.

No medical advice but if I were you I would get on a low dose tirzepatide with the metformin. Metformin is pretty weak and you did all the heavy lifting getting your HBA1C down. You can expect about a 1% reduction from metformin and over 2% from tirz.

I would stay on both because of the synergistic effects on the heart and longevity and on the glp1/gip for the reduction in dementia and cog impairment that comes with beetus.

That combo with what you are doing will get you in the 5.5 range- remission so your risk ratios go back to a healthy persons.

[IroNat]

ya my readings are also 2 points higher on waking

i can keep my A!C in the 6.5 range which Im happy with considering it was 12.5 4 months ago
When I train super heavy and do a reading say an hour after its rocket high--as high as 11
when i do lighter training with cardio it can shootu p to 8 but i can get it back into the 6s pretty quick
when i do only cardio its very good and i have had it down to 5.5

zero doubt heavy training shoots it way up

A1C level represents an average over the preceding 3 months.

[IroNat]

" oatmeal with protein powder and 2 eggs
protein shake
chicken andbeef on brown rice and veggies (EDO)
protein bar
chicken breast 2 pieces of carbonaut seeded bread
protein shake
50 grams protein of ground beef sometimes with a salad
protein bar
4 whole eggs 3 whites cheese omelette
maybe another protein shake

l carnitine preworkout
electrolytes/creatine during workout
15 grams creatine spread out"

>
What's in the protein shakes and bars?  Any carbs?
Finely powdered whey can spike glucose levels and thus insulin levels.
Excess protein also gets converted to glucose.
No need to eat 300+ g of protein a day.

Type 2 is an indication of insulin resistance.

Hope you took the time to watch the video I posted above.

[CalorieKing]

" oatmeal with protein powder and 2 eggs
protein shake
chicken andbeef on brown rice and veggies (EDO)
protein bar
chicken breast 2 pieces of carbonaut seeded bread
protein shake
50 grams protein of ground beef sometimes with a salad
protein bar
4 whole eggs 3 whites cheese omelette
maybe another protein shake

l carnitine preworkout
electrolytes/creatine during workout
15 grams creatine spread out"

>
What's in the protein shakes?  Any carbs?
Finely powdered whey can spike glucose levels and thus insulin levels.

Type 2 is an indication of insulin resistance.

Hope you took the time to watch the video I posted above.

i watched the whole video yes
i have kicked out the oatmeal
here is the exact protein powder i take,...i cant do whey

i wont kick out the carbonaut---the macros are good on it and it keeps me sane--18g carbs between 2 pieces im totally fine with that
i only eat (ate) brown rice, giving that the boot too and going with higher veggies content

[IroNat]

i watched the whole video yes
i have kicked out the oatmeal
here is the exact protein powder i take,...i cant do whey

i wont kick out the carbonaut---the macros are good on it and it keeps me sane--18g carbs between 2 pieces im totally fine with that
i only eat (ate) brown rice, giving that the boot too and going with higher veggies content

You're doing well.  Just some fine tuning to do.
Protein powder looks like a good choice except for excess dietary protein being converted to glucose.
Most likely the protein powder still can cause an insulin spike since it's quickly absorbed.
If you are eating low carb you should increase your fat intake.
But avoid trans fats and seed oils.
Cook with lard and tallow.

[Griffith]

i watched the whole video yes
i have kicked out the oatmeal
here is the exact protein powder i take,...i cant do whey

i wont kick out the carbonaut---the macros are good on it and it keeps me sane--18g carbs between 2 pieces im totally fine with that
i only eat (ate) brown rice, giving that the boot too and going with higher veggies content

As someone slightly lactose intolerant, whey causes stomach issues and even worsens eye allergies. I think it also causes some stomach issues for most people.

Vegan protein on the other hand causes no issues, easy to digest.

[CalorieKing]

You're doing well.  Just some fine tuning to do.
Protein powder looks like a good choice except for excess dietary protein being converted to glucose.
If you are eating low carb you should increase your fat intake.
But avoid trans fats and seed oils.
Cook with lard and tallow.

I use mct and fish oil for fats
yes the excess protein into glucose makes a lot of sense
thanks man for the input

As someone slightly lactose intolerant, whey causes stomach issues and even worsens eye allergies. I think it also causes some stomach issues for most people.

Vegan protein on the other hand causes no issues, easy to digest.

I totally get the eye allergy issues from whey, mine would water so bad and i couldnt figure it out for so long
ya the vegan goes down smooth and no bloating

[Van_Bilderass]

Necrosis, please don't get mad as this is intended as nonconfrontational It is my understanding that high reps "tax" the CNS more and causes more "central fatigue" compared to low reps, contrary to what most believe. Thus some trainers believe lower rep lifting is gentler and can be applied more often. Thoughts? In my experience lower rep 'heavy' lifting is less taxing.

Have you heard of the supplement Emodin? WRT to cortisol levels.

I haven' tried it but look at he "unbelievable" reviews, claims it can really be felt quickly:
https://gorillamind.com/products/cortisol-blocker

[Necrosis]

Necrosis, please don't get mad as this is intended as nonconfrontational It is my understanding that high reps "tax" the CNS more and causes more "central fatigue" compared to low reps, contrary to what most believe. Thus some trainers believe lower rep lifting is gentler and can be applied more often. Thoughts? In my experience lower rep 'heavy' lifting is less taxing.

Have you heard of the supplement Emodin? WRT to cortisol levels.

I haven' tried it but look at he "unbelievable" reviews, claims it can really be felt quickly:
https://gorillamind.com/products/cortisol-blocker

Being a social retard I will take any reply to my posts as an existential threat and respond accordingly.

I think the intensity matters more so. I don't know if thats a fact though. With heavy weight you generally need to recruit more motor units to move the weight so more CNS activation. With higher reps you can get there by going to failure.

With the higher reps you do accumulate more metabolites that cause fatigue but I am not sure if this is central (CNS) or local.

I am familiar with the 11bhsd1 enzyme and there was another product that blocked it. It would be better then the supps I suggested for sure. I recall using something about 15 years ago for this purpose but it made me feel like shit and super tired. I am a bit iffy on bioperine if you are on meds, other the n that its fine.

I actually may try this supp, thanks!!

[Van_Bilderass]

I am familiar with the 11bhsd1 enzyme and there was another product that blocked it. It would be better then the supps I suggested for sure. I recall using something about 15 years ago for this purpose but it made me feel like shit and super tired. I am a bit iffy on bioperine if you are on meds, other the n that its fine.

I actually may try this supp, thanks!!

7-Keto-DHEA?

"7-Keto-DHEA is thought to regulate the local cortisol activity through competitive inhibition of this key enzyme, as this favors the production of 7 β -OH-DHEA over that of active glucocorticoids [8]."

I think it had poor oral bioavailability, Patrick Arnold sold it as a transdermal. This Emodin stuff they speculate might be 'too effective' so should probably only be used for short periods. I was thinking of using it with my MK-677 as MK may actually worsen some peoples' sleep due to some cortisol spiking. I don't know if those reviews are fake or bot generated but as I said there are claims of actually feeling it acutely.

EDIT: Necrosis, I bet you are a master of finding data and mechanisms and theory on various things LOL; if you do look up CNS fatigue and how it relates to low and high reps I'd be interested in your take. Asking AI of course brings up the metabolite accumulation and also increased inflammation from higher; mostly due to simply higher volume. I don't know if you've noticed but in the community there's internet wars regarding the meme "all you ever need for strength and bodybuilding is 4-8 reps and going higher is stupid; you just accumulate needless fatigue before you get to the effective reps." So some coaches now advocate just lower reps and some actually think you should avoid the last rep because it's not "needed" and is too fatiguing.

[Necrosis]

Yes that was it, it was transdermal. It also spiked my anxiety

I think there is actually a cortisol tester one can buy, I haven't looked into it, it was actually my wife who mentioned it recently. How accurate it is I do not know but one could take it before and after the drug/supp.

Cortisol has a diurnal rhythm so it would make sense to do morning and night and avoid midday with a supp like this.

I don't know a ton about the GH peptides but am definitely interested in them. I am interested in slu-pp and mots-c as well.

[Van_Bilderass]

I don't know a ton about the GH peptides but am definitely interested in them. I am interested in slu-pp and mots-c as well.

The MK is extremely "effective" to increase IGF-1 bit has serious side-effects such as extreme water retention and insane appetite (for me positive), and might theoretically make your brain more anxiety prone, very bad for insulin sensitivity as well. Stacking MK-677 with the GHRH CJC-1295 DAC reportedly gives IGF-1 levels equal to about 10iu of GH but it induces a potentially harmful "GH bleed" throughout the day. I've started taking MK a week after recent gallbladder surgery and am up about 25lbs now after about 20 days. I unfortunately had to be checked in again into hospital over the weekend and they said my salt balance was off and gave me 20mg Lasix IV yesterday and it didn't even do anything as far as weight 

Those peps you mention are all interesting to me and dozen others LOL, but I'm unfortunately constrained by finances; but perhaps it's for the better with my personality.

I just saw some reels about "slup" and they were fighting over effective dosages, some adviced micrograms, others hundreds of milligrams, another reel said it had to be mixed with DMSO instead of bac water or it wasn't even bioavailable 

[Necrosis]

The MK is extremely "effective" to increase IGF-1 bit has serious side-effects such as extreme water retention and insane appetite (for me positive), and might theoretically make your brain more anxiety prone, very bad for insulin sensitivity as well. Stacking MK-677 with the GHRH CJC-1295 DAC reportedly gives IGF-1 levels equal to about 10iu of GH but it induces a potentially harmful "GH bleed" throughout the day. I've started taking MK a week after recent gallbladder surgery and am up about 25lbs now after about 20 days. I unfortunately had to be checked in again into hospital over the weekend and they said my salt balance was off and gave me 20mg Lasix IV yesterday and it didn't even do anything as far as weight 

Those peps you mention are all interesting to me and dozen others LOL, but I'm unfortunately constrained by finances; but perhaps it's for the better with my personality.

I just saw some reels about "slup" and they were fighting over effective dosages, some adviced micrograms, others hundreds of milligrams, another reel said it had to be mixed with DMSO instead of bac water or it wasn't even bioavailable 

Ya I would love to go ham on that shit but I have a strong family history of beetus and feel like I would be dumb to risk it.

the mito stuff interests me for longevity and the energy benefits. I am always trying to cram more learning, study and work into my day and the limiter is cognitive fatigue. Stims can offset this to a degree but they have consequences that are cumulative which make consistent usage shitty.

If I had a fitness goal or strength goal I would be all over that shit as you are but I don't.

Peptides are the future though

[Zillotch]

I am just trying to be helpful here, I am a doc, while no endocrinologist this stuff and particularly neuropsychiatric stuff is my bread and butter (cause I am insane and work out ). I say that just so I dont have to be posting 20 pubmed links as I am lazy and currently doing a teaching rotation 

huh... how many rona shots, homie?

[Necrosis]

huh... how many rona shots, homie?

I did both moderna and pfizer and have been double dipping on boosters. i am up to 14 right now and unless someone cuts me off or stops me I will keep getting them until I can't.

[IroNat]

I did both moderna and pfizer and have been double dipping on boosters. i am up to 14 right now and unless someone cuts me off or stops me I will keep getting them until I can't.

Quoted for the archives.

[Methyl m1ke]

I doubt 'heavy lifting' has negative effects on diabetes in the longer run? At least I never heard of that... I don't know how relevant transient spikes are if at all

Resistance training resensitizes your muscles to insulin. Keep in mind type 2 is technically muscle insulin resistance. Your fat cells never become resistant.

[Necrosis]

Quoted for the archives.

Make that 15, my immunity is down from this post.

[IroNat]

The Hidden Dangers of Whey Protein

https://lillihealth.com/the-hidden-dangers-of-whey-protein/