Phil Heath

[Disgusted]

 Some of these guy from years ago where pretty smart when it came to nutrtion. If anything  food  was most likely better quality back then too. Maybe it's a coincidence, but physiques took a huge leap in size when drugs became available.

[Van_Bilderass]

With all due respect DC (and I genuinely mean that, not like some who use that phrase as a preface for facetiousness)
you have to qualify a lot here.

Pro's are doing a little (sarcasm) more than just your average gym rats cycle of 600 deca/and dbol cycle for 12 weeks.
That said, all the roids in the world won't help the genetic inferior win a show but you can bet your ass he'll grow like a weed up to a point. Pro's do crazy amounts for crazy amounts of time and you've spelled this out in the past pretty clearly when you were talking about how top pros never come off.

It's disingenuous to compare someone doing a recreational cycle for a few months 2x per year to a pscyho professional who lives and dies so they can be huge. For Christs sake guys are losing kidneys left and right, and you can argue that it's the diuretic abuse(because it is), but it paints a clear picture of *what they're willing to do* to get a certain look at the expense of their own life. The same attitude most hold true for anabolic/gh use, it just goes to reason that the all-or-die principle is active year round, not just when it comes time to dry out. This is the mentality of a pro.
Moreover, the mentality of what it takes to be a pro today.

Pro's have gotten consistently bigger for the past 30 years. You can't say it's due to nutritional advances or advances in training. An egg still has 5 grams of protein and 200 pounds is still 200 pounds unless you're on the moon.
I think guys trained harder/smarter in the 70's or 80's anyway.
Shit, in the 70's guys were going apeshit with tons of food and doing arcane shit like drinking chickens blood
(heard that directly from a former competitor) and anything else you can fathom. BUT, a cycle of 600 mg deca/and 20 mg. dbol was considered "high tech" in 1979, as well as "pushing it". I'm not pulling that out of my ass either, this was
from a competitor who answered all of my questions straight up. (Jeff Sneed) Who, was nice enough to pull me aside and say ...."don't take GH whatever you do, kid don't do it, I regret ever touching it"
To *some* extent you can argue that the pro ranks are pulling from a *larger* (not specifically better) gene pool
than they were 30 years ago, but you can't reasonably argue that a 1984 Lee Haney had any less better genetics than what we see now genetically speaking? Has evolution logarithmically advanced in 20 years time?

So what then is the reason pros keep getting freakier and bigger for the past 20 years?
Muscletech? No. More and more and more copious amounts of everything drug related.
To ignore this is just silly. I've indulged and as I sit here I can confidently say that the only thing standing between me
and another 10 pounds LBM is more sauce/varied compounds, higher cals and another 12-16 months of training.
So many guys bullshit about the drug issue it's just ridiculous. As much as Adonis is a fucking pain in the ass, he
sometimes makes a point..even if it's on the top of his head.

As for Heath....well only he knows the truth of the matter..and he ain't talking.

Good post.

Also, if Ronnie is so gifted he turned pro natural how come he must now do so many steroids he has massive gyno that keeps coming back after repeated surgeries (I assume he's had them cut off a few times)?

[dav-bol]

Good post.

Also, if Ronnie is so gifted he turned pro natural how come he must now do so many steroids he has massive gyno that keeps coming back after repeated surgeries (I assume he's had them cut off a few times)?

A surgeon will not typically remove the entire gland and with it's receptors.
Once the tissue has been sensitized to estrogen it's that much easier for another case to develop.
Also, even the strongest aromatase inhibitors/receptor antagonists will not stop ALL of the estrogen
from either forming or competing for the receptor site.

Consider metastatic breast cancer where these drugs are used for therapeutic effect.
They don't stop all the estrogen. Factor in the massive doses of aromatizing compounds being used by pros
and the massive amounts of estrogen they create. Then compare that with the small amounts of estrogen
created endogenously in a female with metastatic breast cancer who takes the same drugs.

An honest pro will tell you straight up that if you're doing what's necessary to be a pro, it's pretty much guaranteed
that you will eventually get gyno. It's that simple.
Just look at the roster of pros that are on the most popular "gyno specialist" websites. And these guys are not ignorant about gear use/estrogen inhibition/drug knowledge. Quite the opposite.
It's a who's who in BBing.

[haider]

Check page seven of this thread:

http://forum.bodybuildingpro.com/showthread.php?t=722

I'm not sure what pages the other ones are on, but I think there are two or three on that thread of when Ronnie turned pro.

Found this one on that page:


UNBELIEVABLE 

[dav-bol]

Check page seven of this thread:

http://forum.bodybuildingpro.com/showthread.php?t=722

I'm not sure what pages the other ones are on, but I think there are two or three on that thread of when Ronnie turned pro.

Ronnie is just ridiculous.
Cutler can win 20 Sandows but Ron will forever own him.

[johnnytosh]

Phil, no one is saying you don't train with intensity and eat big.  We're just also pointing out the fact that you and every other pro use a lot of gear to help you get where you are.

Forgive me - is something I said here untrue?

Didn't think so!

It's not called "hate" (except on mayhem) but "reality".  Don't expect us to deny facts.

However, guys like TA and I would be far less vocal and even angry about this if more pros stopped touting genetic superiority and acknowledged the effectiveness of gear.

We get that you train hard and eat tons.  What we also get is that the only difference between an IFBB pro and an NGA pro is an injection - despite upwards of 50-100 pounds more muscle.  That difference lies 100% in a syringe.  Just keep it real and you will have our respect.

Your a fucking idiot !!!

He is called the gift for a reason...GENETICS !!

You DONT have the same aptitude for the spport..
So Get it thru your head, and don't spew shit because your a jealous bastard...

[johnnytosh]

This is exactly the reason why pro's dont post here. He made one post and you post some ignorant shit like this.

How about you only post things that  you would say to his face, and not smart ass comments that sound funny while your typing away on your cum stained keyboard.

Well said !!  FUCK TA & MATT C... We have had this argument a hundred times.
TA & MMATT C can do all the juice they want, and they will NEVER win a regional title.
GET OVER IT & accept it.. He is called the GIFT for a reason..

I believe Heath was able to slam dunk a basketball in college..
THAT is so rare at his height... What is TA's & Matt c's explanation for that ??

Those 2 spew so much shit it has become boring..
BTW TA, you look like shit !!
Your hamstrings & calves are EXTINCT !!!

And you look like an ugly version of Mike Katz.
There is an old saying...
"Spittin in the wind comes back at you twice as hard"
All you do is attack people... So how do you like it when people attack you ??

YOUR UGLY & you suck !!

[dav-bol]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm thinking 235-240 at around 6% bodyfat.

It's going to be difficult to get DOWN to 235.  I'm not sure if I can do it, and keep lifting weights at the same time.  I may have to quit doing everything but cardio to get to that.  Even being 100% clean, if I weight train 3 days a week, doing 3-4 sets per bodypart, I'm worried that I won't be able to drop below 255-260.

Should be a fun challange.

________________________ ________________________ ___________

Prince at his best...

I hate to rag on a guy who's got one foot in the grave but...

Prince looked awesome when fully loaded, and he did have excellent genetics such as thickness and shape
and that polished "pro quality" structure that drugs won't give you, but FFS he's delusional.
He's a unique case in that he fucked his health so bad that we'll never really know what he'd look like off the sauce and still training and eating well. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say
Mike Morris(now)+ 10 pounds. But that may be pushing it.

240 @ 6%...?? Not with all the tribulus and T3 in the world.
Shit that's an NPC super heavy or even an IFBB smaller freak right there and he thinks he's going to do it sans drugs? I gotta wonder if he really believed that or if it was written in a nubain haze.
If that was true then why even bother taking drugs and accepting all the risks that go with their use.

I can understand the mentality that creates this sort of drivel.
It's the need to grant credence to his hard work and sacrifice (which is real) and the need
to have others think he's somehow "unique" in a way that others can only dream of.
Otherwise, why post this shit on a public board that at that time drawed a lot of attention.

But i don't know who's more delusional....Prince or the guys on mayhem who believed him and
fueled his delusion.

[jmt1]

some of these guys are so delusional its not even worth having the conversation.

they are so consumed with the thoughts of drugs that they cant accept the fact that guys like phil heath were born with genetic abilities that they could only dream of.

i have been around so many guys that i have seen using massive amounts of aas and look like nothing.

of course drugs is a part of the equation but genetics is by far the most important thing in bodybuilding.

if you are genetically gifted first.

bust your ass in the gym and get your diet on point second.

then add some drugs to the mix you may be able to build a good physique.

but without the genetics all the drugs in the world arent gonna matter.

[dav-bol]

some of these guys are so delusional its not even worth having the conversation.



i have been around so many guys that i have seen using massive amounts of aas and look like nothing.

Ain't that the truth.
Guy at my gym has been on for one year straight and is lucky if he has 16" arms. Looks horrible.
The worst part is that he still thinks more drugs are the answer.

[SteelePegasus]

to be a sucessfull pro today you have to be ON.  Be as genetically gift as you want, eat as clean as you want, it won't matter. You will be only end up of being an unknown natty (dime a dozen).

lol, look at it this way.  The gifted one realized after 1 show that he was playing in the junior league and decided to take gear and join the major leagues.  If he is genetically gifted as his name implies why does he take steriods? unless ofcourse that steroids plays a major part in being a pro.

How much of a role does it play? I am guess that is where the genetics comes into play. Same for nutrition.

[thegift]

EVEN PHIL HEATH ADMITTED,

That he was NEVER over 200 lbs ripped under 6foot Natural.


He also said stated that his conditioning was not as good the closer he approached that figure.


Therefore, a lighter bodyweight, Natural(Provided he is as he stated) would have been ideal and not his higher one.

So Phil Heath by those standards, admits that he would have looked best in the 170s-180s as a Natural.

Interesting.

Actually I didn't say anything about that, but was pretty ripped up at over 200lbs before and I have never competed at 170-180 range.

[thegift]

Ok, Ok, guys enough with the talk about gear and other stupid things. This is being way overly redundant and we could be having dialogue about something more interesting. I appreciate the many people that have contributed and viewed this thread as it has become one of the best threads. However, I'd rather talk about new topics because this exact topic that is being discussed was actually mentioned earlier during my run for the USA's and 06' shows.

[Disgusted]

Ok, Ok, guys enough with the talk about gear and other stupid things. This is being way overly redundant and we could be having dialogue about something more interesting. I appreciate the many people that have contributed and viewed this thread as it has become one of the best threads. However, I'd rather talk about new topics because this exact topic that is being discussed was actually mentioned earlier during my run for the USA's and 06' shows.

Agreed.

[SteelePegasus]

Ok, Ok, guys enough with the talk about gear and other stupid things. This is being way overly redundant and we could be having dialogue about something more interesting. I appreciate the many people that have contributed and viewed this thread as it has become one of the best threads. However, I'd rather talk about new topics because this exact topic that is being discussed was actually mentioned earlier during my run for the USA's and 06' shows.

fine Phil,

my girlfriend hates 99.9% bodybuilders .....by chance she happened to be passing by  while I was reading this thread and saw your 1st contest pic.  Needless to say she is now a fan of yours

I told her that you were trying to pack on some real size, that is when is she walked away shaking her head in disapproval. 

I only bring this up to segway to the point of taking BB mainstream. You mention this as a goal of yours,  but perception is reality. And America's perception is "steroids are bad" and that BB is "all drugs".

In their eyes taking creatine and whey protein is equal to taking steroids.  What are your plans on educating the masses?

[SteelePegasus]

Another question if I may. I am not sure if you answered this already or not. What is your contest prep like as far as doing cardio? Priest has stated that he does 2hr/day right up to the day of the show. Others like Dexter say 0 cardio.

What works for you?

[dearth]

Ok, Ok, guys enough with the talk about gear and other stupid things. This is being way overly redundant and we could be having dialogue about something more interesting. I appreciate the many people that have contributed and viewed this thread as it has become one of the best threads. However, I'd rather talk about new topics because this exact topic that is being discussed was actually mentioned earlier during my run for the USA's and 06' shows.

is hany rambod a drug guru?

[johnnytosh]

Ok, Ok, guys enough with the talk about gear and other stupid things. This is being way overly redundant and we could be having dialogue about something more interesting. I appreciate the many people that have contributed and viewed this thread as it has become one of the best threads. However, I'd rather talk about new topics because this exact topic that is being discussed was actually mentioned earlier during my run for the USA's and 06' shows.

Exactly !!  One of the great young stars TRIES to trust us enuff to post here. Phil also Puts us on notice that he is aware of the potential for bullshit-but he tests the waters.. The first thing that happens is MATT C & TA spew their jealousy-filled insults & presumptions.  EXACTLY as we all knew would happen !!

It is because of little weasels like you that PRO's don't post here.

I would NEVER post here if I was a pro !! WHY   To have asswipes like TA & MATT C draw attention to a potential illegal activity that DOESN't concern them at all... Over & Over & OVER & OVER AGAIN ??

You 2 guys are LOSERS... Why do you assholes keep insisting on talking about gear when the pros arent biting on your "Phishing" trip ?    Cant you EVER talk about anything else.

Wanna hear a funny one ?  "TA could be Mr. Olympia if ONLY he used the same gear as Cutler"
I will never respond to your bullshit again & waste my time, so don't bother writing. Get off this board TA & go jerk off at a natural show.  EVERYBODY thinks your an asshole anyway..

[Cleanest Natural]

Exactly !!  One of the great young stars TRIES to trust us enuff to post here. Phil also Puts us on notice that he is aware of the potential for bullshit-but he tests the waters.. The first thing that happens is MATT C & TA spew their jealousy-filled insults & presumptions.  EXACTLY as we all knew would happen !!

It is because of little weasels like you that PRO's don't post here.

I would NEVER post here if I was a pro !! WHY   To have asswipes like TA & MATT C draw attention to a potential illegal activity that DOESN't concern them at all... Over & Over & OVER & OVER AGAIN ??

You 2 guys are LOSERS... Why do you assholes keep insisting on talking about gear when the pros arent biting on your "Phishing" trip ?    Cant you EVER talk about anything else.

Wanna hear a funny one ?  "TA could be Mr. Olympia if ONLY he used the same gear as Cutler"
I will never respond to your bullshit again & waste my time, so don't bother writing. Get off this board TA & go jerk off at a natural show.  EVERYBODY thinks your an asshole anyway..

couldn't agree with u more....i would also like to ask phil about his highvolume training since i'm doing something similar and also i'm very curious about his off season and precontest nutrition...

[tleilaxutank]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm thinking 235-240 at around 6% bodyfat.

It's going to be difficult to get DOWN to 235.  I'm not sure if I can do it, and keep lifting weights at the same time.  I may have to quit doing everything but cardio to get to that.  Even being 100% clean, if I weight train 3 days a week, doing 3-4 sets per bodypart, I'm worried that I won't be able to drop below 255-260.

Should be a fun challange.

________________________ ________________________ ___________

Prince at his best...

I hate to rag on a guy who's got one foot in the grave but...

Prince looked awesome when fully loaded, and he did have excellent genetics such as thickness and shape
and that polished "pro quality" structure that drugs won't give you, but FFS he's delusional.
He's a unique case in that he fucked his health so bad that we'll never really know what he'd look like off the sauce and still training and eating well. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say
Mike Morris(now)+ 10 pounds. But that may be pushing it.

240 @ 6%...?? Not with all the tribulus and T3 in the world.
Shit that's an NPC super heavy or even an IFBB smaller freak right there and he thinks he's going to do it sans drugs? I gotta wonder if he really believed that or if it was written in a nubain haze.
If that was true then why even bother taking drugs and accepting all the risks that go with their use.

I can understand the mentality that creates this sort of drivel.
It's the need to grant credence to his hard work and sacrifice (which is real) and the need
to have others think he's somehow "unique" in a way that others can only dream of.
Otherwise, why post this shit on a public board that at that time drawed a lot of attention.

But i don't know who's more delusional....Prince or the guys on mayhem who believed him and
fueled his delusion.

check out my response to TP in that thread on the same page...Monster Predictions

 

[The True Adonis]

Yo, Yo, Yo!

Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for the posts, as they've been pretty cool. I can only say that the pics are real and that I specifically trained for my first show in October of '02 and weigh around 190lbs. I find it interesting how some speculate what I was so called "doing/taking" while playing bball, but they fail to realize that the damn NCAA actually tests, and guess who got tested...me. I was the one getting tested because of how I was able to gain muscle faster than others, but I didn't even trip because my whole family is athletic. I weighed in at 192lbs for the Northern CO (apr '03) then 196lbs (june '03). I wasn't as sharp as the first show because I graduated three wks out from college and didn't follow the bber gameplan if you can catch my drift. I didn't really diet at all because of my friends telling me that I've got good genetics. I ain't saying that I'm superior over anyone, so let's stop that right there, but understand that I was made for this sport just like LeBron and Tiger were for theirs and no one can tell me different because if it was that easy, then everyone could do it.

Now, I really want to say thanks for everyone keeping this thread clean and leaving out the childish posts. I have no problem with opinions of others, as long as they can back it up, in addition to it being respectful to me as I will be onto them. Oh, about that post referring to me being insulted by Hany Rambod, there wasn't any harm in that article as he was explaining that I have much to learn in training. Everyone can learn something which is why we read about the sport of bodybuilding, so my intelligence was never insulted. I've trained with various bbers and have realized that I've been able to excel without knowing much about training which is cool because once I do, then watch out baby! Again, thanks for all of the contributors to this thread, I really appreciate your responses.

Take care and good night! Gotta get some rest for my last guest posing of the year tomorrow in Salt Lake City Utah!

You said you were 196 and not as sharp as you were at 192.
And you weren`t in your absolute best condition at 192.

So the 180s would have been ideal.

[The True Adonis]

Exactly !!  One of the great young stars TRIES to trust us enuff to post here. Phil also Puts us on notice that he is aware of the potential for bullshit-but he tests the waters.. The first thing that happens is MATT C & TA spew their jealousy-filled insults & presumptions.  EXACTLY as we all knew would happen !!

It is because of little weasels like you that PRO's don't post here.

I would NEVER post here if I was a pro !! WHY   To have asswipes like TA & MATT C draw attention to a potential illegal activity that DOESN't concern them at all... Over & Over & OVER & OVER AGAIN ??

You 2 guys are LOSERS... Why do you assholes keep insisting on talking about gear when the pros arent biting on your "Phishing" trip ?    Cant you EVER talk about anything else.

Wanna hear a funny one ?  "TA could be Mr. Olympia if ONLY he used the same gear as Cutler"
I will never respond to your bullshit again & waste my time, so don't bother writing. Get off this board TA & go jerk off at a natural show.  EVERYBODY thinks your an asshole anyway..

Who said that about me being Jay Cutler?
I sure didn`t.

[thisiskeith12]

TA, steroids will make you popular.

[thisiskeith12]

No matter what, Heath has a classic physique with great symmetry and aesthetics. He has a tremendous amount of potential to be very successful if he doesn't go overboard. He also has a marketable appeal seeing how he doesn't look like he just got off the streets/rolled out of the bar/tattoo obsession/etc.

[AVBG]

Thank you.

What you say is true.  I'm just here to stick of for a good friend, on things that I fully believe to be true. 

And, all I've heard from anyone who's met Phil Heath, he's a great guy. 
I keep my nose out of people's business for the most part.  But, from everything I've heard about Phil, he's a "good" guy.

Its good to hear that you're sticking around, you have a lot to offer Getbig.