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Author Topic: Slayer, please read  (Read 3276 times)
suckmymuscle
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« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2006, 05:59:30 PM »

 Ronnie did set a new standard in 98 for back development and overall quality.

  An absurd staement. How could have he set a new standard for back development if Dorian had, five years before that, thicker and wider lats and was pounds heavier? You can argue that Ronnie combined mass with qualiy, and that would be ony your opinion. He certainy did have crisp details on his back, maybe a little more than Dorian, but Yates' lats, tees maor and minorand infra-spinatus were definitely wider, thicker and harder. The fact is that Ronnie set no new standard in 1998, either for muscularity, proportions or conditioning. Wink

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body88
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« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2006, 06:05:07 PM »

His back was doughy, but everything else on him was pretty shredded.  In the rear lat spread, his lack of conditioning wasn't really showing, so his only real pose which showed the relative lack of conditioning was the back double biceps.  Peter McGough said Jay was flat that year but I'm not so sure I agree with that.  He was just outsized by Ronnie by too large a margin to compare favourably with him.

I do not think Jay was close in years past. I think he had him beat in 2001. I also think he had him beat this year. Ronnie's only drawback (aside from 05) was his massive gut.
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« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2006, 06:19:47 PM »

Jay and Ronnie compared well size wise in 2005.  Before that Ronnie always had him beat, but finally in 2005 Jay closed in on things.  In 2006 Jay outsized Ronnie from the back and won.  I'm not sure how much more muscle Jay has room for on his frame though.

Not much. He needs to focus on detail. I would stay the same and refine if I was him.
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« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2006, 06:37:00 PM »

Quote
You can argue that Ronnie combined mass with qualiy, and that would be ony your opinion.

no, that would be the truth as 99.9999% of the world sees it.

If you were to all of sudden argue that 2+2 =5, you could convince yourself that it was true.

and you could say that it is only the "opinion" of everyone else that it is actually 4.

But that does not mean you would be right:



dorian's back never ever looked this good - in the opinion of almost everyone except you and ND. Think about that for a minute.
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« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2006, 06:42:17 PM »

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lmfao what new muscle development did he have in his back that Yates didn't 5 years earlier?

umm..Yates had far LESS detail than Ronnie did in his upper back..5 years earlier.



dorian cannot claim a better back double bi than Ronnie - again in the opinion of almost everyone except the outsiders - you and sucky.
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« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2006, 07:06:37 PM »

Dorian had a great back but the best of all time, all things considered, would have to go to Ronnie.  I would think that even the Dorian semen taste testers on here would be able to acknowledge that.

are you kidding me? there is one well known Yates semen taste tester who has argued that dorian had better ARMS than ronnie for god's sake!!

no way would they accept that ronnie had a better back.

doesn't mean that we all don't think they are crazy, though Cool
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« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2006, 07:41:23 PM »

ronnie would look good her but his left arm looks like it belongs on another bodybuilder, its 3 inches smaller then his right at least! id have thought it was shopped if i didnt get it from flex online!
Yeah your'e right Jay's right arm and right leg are smaller than his lefts!  good job.  You need to whipe the shit off your glasses.  Ronnie is whoopin' that trick in those pics!
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« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2006, 07:58:55 PM »

LOL...reminds me of the man in the straight jacket trying to convince the rest of the world that he is in fact the only person who is sane.

Hi Ronnie.
That's Mr. Coleman, 8xMr.Olympia to a guy like you!
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« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2006, 08:14:27 PM »

Show me a pic of a BBer FROM A CONTEST that looks as good as this.

   


Best combination of size and detail EVER.
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« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2006, 08:20:36 PM »

 An absurd staement. How could have he set a new standard for back development if Dorian had, five years before that, thicker and wider lats and was pounds heavier? You can argue that Ronnie combined mass with qualiy, and that would be ony your opinion. He certainy did have crisp details on his back, maybe a little more than Dorian, but Yates' lats, tees maor and minorand infra-spinatus were definitely wider, thicker and harder. The fact is that Ronnie set no new standard in 1998, either for muscularity, proportions or conditioning. Wink

SUCKMYMUSCLE

I have reviewed the 93 and 98 olympias extensively, and I believe Ronnie had more back detail than Dorian, although Dorian was drier. From the rear, Ronnie's overall package looked better. From the front, Ronnie's gyno was horrid. And I will agree with ND, after watching the 98O, I was extremely surprised they didn't go with name Flex on name alone. Contrary to common belief, Flex was not that far "off".
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« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2006, 08:22:27 PM »

Along with Dorian's front double bi black and white 93 @ 269, this is the greatest BB shot of all time.

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« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2006, 08:51:58 PM »

Along with Dorian's front double bi black and white 93 @ 269, this is the greatest BB shot of all time.



I agree 100%, but the thing is this shot was taken ONSTAGE. It's there for all to see and you have to give the man credit.

Now that Ron has seen better days people are piling on the Cutler bandwagon, but Jay will never come close to this.
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« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2006, 09:23:54 PM »


I think this is the most impressive photo out of the famous set.

the front double bi is okay - problem is, it is really showcasing one of dorian's worst bodyparts.

as big as he was in those shots


his bis were flat and unshapely.

and I agree that


this shot is one of the greatest single on stage shots of anyone ever taken. It ranks right up there with the famous twisting, kneeling rear double bi of Flex from the 93 AC.
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« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2006, 09:27:02 PM »

Jay is a great bodybuilder. But, he only won because Ronnie looked bad. That's NOT an accomplishment. He should thank Ronnie. A great Cutler could never beat a great Coleman.  As far as backs. Ronnie has the greatest back of all time. Dorian had a huge back, but Shawn Ray had the best quality back on that pic. Ronnie combined Shawn Ray's conditioning and Dorian's size.
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« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2006, 09:30:11 PM »

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Jay is a great bodybuilder. But, he only won because Ronnie looked bad. That's NOT an accomplishment. He should thank Ronnie. A great Cutler could never beat a great Coleman.  As far as backs. Ronnie has the greatest back of all time.
agreed.
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« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2006, 09:56:16 PM »


Ronnie set no new standard for back development in 1998 , lmfao what new muscle development did he have in his back that Yates didn't 5 years earlier? Ronnie set a personal standard in 1998 for development and his overall quality but he was a very lucky bodybuilder in 1998  , lucky that Flex was off and lucky the  judges didn't pick Flex in name alone , 1998 he had laughable gyno thats a standard that should keep ANYONE from being awarded the Mr Olympia title

10 years from now Jay will always be remembered for stopping Coleman dead in his tracks , beating Ronnie in the most important Mr Olympia contest in the history of the sport , his physique won't be remembered as one of the greatest ever but his feat will always be remembered .

ND, you are completely wrong.  Anyone who saw the show knows that Cutler did no such thing.  Ronnie is the sole reason he lost the Mr. Olympia.  He came in off.  It is that simple.  Looking at the pics, I completely change my prior opinion.  He has not in any way ripped his lats.  He is still able to flex it to a degree.  Instead, I believe he has severe arthritis in his left rotator cuff that has severely hampered his ability to train that side of his body effectively.  Proof, look at the most recent GP event.  He was actually spreading his back in some poses.  I bet he got a cortisone shot or IM toradol.  Regardless, I feel that Coleman likely has a serious shoulder injury.  That would make training his arms, shoulders and back very difficult.  If it hurts to move the joint, you cannot work any of the muscles that attach at that site.  If you look at the Mr. Olympia pics, it is obvious that Coleman is smaller than usual.  His legs and chest were huge (along with the GH gut), but his back was severely lacking, as were his shoulders and triceps on the left side. 

Thus, Cutler did not beat an on Coleman.  He beat a shadow of his former self.  It is like beating a champion long after his prime is done.  Even you must admit the startling difference between Coleman 2005 and 2006.  If Coleman were even 90% of his 2005 condition, he would have won quite easily.  Jay looked like shit.  His waist was wide, his arms average and he has no chest.  His legs are awesome, and his back is wide and thick (however, no detail whatsoever).  If you like this physique, it explains your infatuation with a subpar Yates in any year but 1992/1993 or 1995.  Peace all.
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« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2006, 10:07:03 PM »

Show me a pic of a BBer FROM A CONTEST that looks as good as this.

   


Best combination of size and detail EVER.

I'm no Ronnie fan, but that back shot is the craziest and best I have EVER seen...........to bad he had to ruin his physique, he now has one worst physiques symmetry wise I have seen!
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« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2006, 11:12:04 PM »


Jay's back getting crushed again, by Ronnie, who seems to be able to spread his lats again.

 Tongue

ps Ronnie's glutes and hams are once again better too Tongue


Are you fuckin serious! Ronnie looked that good and still lost? WTF is that Angry  This just goes to show how good Ron is, and when he needs to get the job done and change his body around he can do it!  I look forward to seeing what King Ron looks like next year! Maybe Ron needed a kick in the ass like this after winning 8 Mr O in a row like this, it was just to easy for him. Now he has a new challenge in front of him..
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« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2006, 05:49:04 AM »

Jay is a great bodybuilder. But, he only won because Ronnie looked bad. That's NOT an accomplishment. He should thank Ronnie. A great Cutler could never beat a great Coleman.  As far as backs. Ronnie has the greatest back of all time. Dorian had a huge back, but Shawn Ray had the best quality back on that pic. Ronnie combined Shawn Ray's conditioning and Dorian's size.
no shame in that, minus ronnie, jays 5 time mr "o" so basically take one of the greats alltime in colemen out of this equation and bingo ,jays on his way to haney's record!

 lets also factor in ronnie didnt become ronnie till he was 33, jays current age, who knows where jay takes his physique ... he has the potential to go down in history with the greatenst wheels  and calves in history if he keeps building on them.... thats where his genetics are superior!

thats my prediction, 4 yrs from now jay presents the best lower body ever seen on a olympia stage and that will be his legacy!
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« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2006, 05:54:03 AM »

no shame in that, minus ronnie, jays 5 time mr "o" so basically take one of the greats alltime in colemen out of this equation and bingo ,jays on his way to haney's record!

 lets also factor in ronnie didnt become ronnie till he was 33, jays current age, who knows where jay takes his physique ... he has the potential to go down in history with the greatenst wheels  and calves in history if he keeps building on them.... thats where his genetics are superior!

thats my prediction, 4 yrs from now jay presents the best lower body ever seen on a olympia stage and that will be his legacy!

Slayer when you post this RAh-Rah shit you lose all credibilty.

The fact is Jay is already on the downside. He has significant atrophy in his right arm and leg and he is blockier than ever. This is not opinion it is fact.
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« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2006, 06:44:07 AM »

ND, you are completely wrong.  Anyone who saw the show knows that Cutler did no such thing.  Ronnie is the sole reason he lost the Mr. Olympia.  He came in off.  It is that simple.  Looking at the pics, I completely change my prior opinion.  He has not in any way ripped his lats.  He is still able to flex it to a degree.  Instead, I believe he has severe arthritis in his left rotator cuff that has severely hampered his ability to train that side of his body effectively.  Proof, look at the most recent GP event.  He was actually spreading his back in some poses.  I bet he got a cortisone shot or IM toradol.  Regardless, I feel that Coleman likely has a serious shoulder injury.  That would make training his arms, shoulders and back very difficult.  If it hurts to move the joint, you cannot work any of the muscles that attach at that site.  If you look at the Mr. Olympia pics, it is obvious that Coleman is smaller than usual.  His legs and chest were huge (along with the GH gut), but his back was severely lacking, as were his shoulders and triceps on the left side. 

Thus, Cutler did not beat an on Coleman.  He beat a shadow of his former self.  It is like beating a champion long after his prime is done.  Even you must admit the startling difference between Coleman 2005 and 2006.  If Coleman were even 90% of his 2005 condition, he would have won quite easily.  Jay looked like shit.  His waist was wide, his arms average and he has no chest.  His legs are awesome, and his back is wide and thick (however, no detail whatsoever).  If you like this physique, it explains your infatuation with a subpar Yates in any year but 1992/1993 or 1995.  Peace all.

This is a great post.

ND - you are wrong so quit dropping the line "jay cutler will be forever remembered as the man that stopped coleman in his tracks".

What utter garbage and purely wishful thinkin on your behalf.

Do you really think jay won the title "unassisted"?

The last 2 weeks have been arguably the saddest in bodybuilding judging history.

Jay has won four events yet hasn't looked the best man at any of them.

Tragic.
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« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2006, 07:01:35 AM »

Gaspari was harder at 18 than Jay will ever be.  That is just genetic though.  If Jay had Gaspari's hardness I wouldn't have any qualms with him winning everything he entered.

alot of that has to do with the gh and shit they take these days, gaspari was all roids, GH hadn't-as far as I know-been perfected when Rich was at his best.  I could be wrong but that's what I always believed.
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« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2006, 11:51:52 AM »

i think that ronnie may have the edge in the back double bi over dorian, but dorian takes the lat spread (i know this isnt a lat spread but it highlights why dorian was so great - mass and conditioning.  a combo that has never been duplicated).

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« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2006, 12:56:18 PM »

This is a great post.

ND - you are wrong so quit dropping the line "jay cutler will be forever remembered as the man that stopped coleman in his tracks".

What utter garbage and purely wishful thinkin on your behalf.

Do you really think jay won the title "unassisted"?

The last 2 weeks have been arguably the saddest in bodybuilding judging history.

Jay has won four events yet hasn't looked the best man at any of them.

Tragic.


how has it been sad?

jay won easily. 

ronnie aint wining with 1 arm and 1 lat and no legs anymore.  his legs are big but lost every cut he ever had.  jay is fuller and dryer. 

regardless of what jay does in the future, if he places dead last in every show or wins 10 Olympias, he will be known as the guy who beat ronnie coleman while he was going for a record breaking 9th Olympia.

up til now, he was known as the guy who should have won the 2001 Mr. Olympia.  now, that's changed. 

now's he's mr. olympia who beat the defending champ.  that's a fact regardless of what you think of cutler's physique.
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« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2006, 01:00:26 PM »

This is a great post.

ND - you are wrong so quit dropping the line "jay cutler will be forever remembered as the man that stopped coleman in his tracks".

What utter garbage and purely wishful thinkin on your behalf.

Do you really think jay won the title "unassisted"?

The last 2 weeks have been arguably the saddest in bodybuilding judging history.

Jay has won four events yet hasn't looked the best man at any of them.

Tragic.


yeah, sad what happened to coleman.

jay won easily. 

ronnie aint wining with 1 arm and 1 lat and no legs anymore.  his legs are big but lost every cut he ever had.  jay is fuller and dryer. 

regardless of what jay does in the future, if he places dead last in every show or wins 10 Olympias, he will be known as the guy who beat ronnie coleman while he was going for a record breaking 9th Olympia.

up til now, he was known as the guy who should have won the 2001 Mr. Olympia.  now, that's changed. 

now's he's mr. olympia who beat the defending champ.  that's a fact regardless of what you think of cutler's physique.
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