Overtraining: bodybuilding's biggest myth ?

[The True Adonis]

interesting, this is the way to go. you could do everything 7 days a week but prioritizing certain movments each workout by doing more sets of a particular one

This is what Gravity training is all about.

I train my whole body everyday that I am at the gym subjecting each bodypart to an equal gravitational force.

[what.]

Overtraining is bullshit.  The fact is that the only way you can truly achieve your goals is to go balls to the walls and not let up. 

I did a split training routine for my last show consisting of a light weight high rep routine and a heavy weight low rep routine at night.  I never overtrained and recovered easily by taking simple carbs and protein immediately after each workout followed by a solid meal and getting 8 full hours of sleep every night. 


Also, there's too many people skipping vital exercises because they are too hard and try to substitute for crap routines.  When I train legs, I do squats and deadlifts.  When it comes to shoulders, I never forget to do pull-ups.  When I train chest, I always do dips.  There are no substitutes for these vital exercises   

Pull-ups target the back.  Hope this helps dipshit.

[SteelePegasus]

Pull-ups target the back.  Hope this helps dipshit.

why confuse Vince with minor details? be happy that he at least pretends to go to the gym....that is a big start for him

[Jr. Yates]

Pull-ups target the back.  Hope this helps dipshit.

[KTMckay]

I believe you can, but the shit aint easy. Its far easier to undereat. Overtraining is a difficult task. i do drop sets, negatives, and all that shit all the damn time and i never fail to grow. pussy flex says you should maybe use these methods oncea month at most. I love drop sets.

[TheEgoCrusher]

I think LAZY ASS BASTARDS use the whole "afraid of overtraining" BULLSHIT as an excuse to UNDERTRAIN.

Lazy ass bastards.

[Wombat]

I think LAZY ASS BASTARDS use the whole "afraid of overtraining" BULLSHIT as an excuse to UNDERTRAIN.

Lazy ass bastards.

I agree with this...

[Wombat]

its been written that Tom Platz used to do sets of well over 100repsfor his bodyparts...esp. Quads...Well if im to take a look at Platz's development, i can see that he did not overtrain his legs...If he did, he wouldn't have gotten that much development out of them...But when i look at the rest of his body, to me it looks like he overtrained his upperbody...Why i believe that he get massive up top...

So what works for once muscle group, probably won't work for others....

I don't believe that you can overtrain your legs...The pain barrier will break you down before you could do so IMOP....However with painkillers and what not that the pros of today use, maybe it is possible to overtrain legs..

Olympic sprinters have some very good development training almost everyday...again i believe that the legs can take so much punishment without overtraining them...

[D-Jay]

This is what Gravity training is all about.

I train my whole body everyday that I am at the gym subjecting each bodypart to an equal gravitational force.

You train your whole body each time you work out?  How often do you work out?  Maybe I mis-understood

[gh15]

What do you guys think about overtraining ?
it seems like everybody nowadays is scared of overtraining, ence the popular way of training 1 bodypart once a week.

now, have you ever seen someone with a bodypart who is totally overpowering his body cause he is training it almost everyday ? I think the answer is yes !
For an example:
-JOJ said he got his traps got huge because he did shrugs at the end of every workout to show off his strenght when he was younger.
if he was training them everyday, he was clearly overtraining them. yet, they got fucking huge

-Weightlifters squat everyday and I have heard that in some countries where the sport is really popular, they train 2 or 3 times a day !
their legs and back are very thick too

IMO, overtraining is the biggest lie ever cause if it was so bad to train a bodypart more than twice a week, those guys would be tiny

discuss

this is the rule of thumb you should go by past the initial 3 year trial and error of natural training:

the less time you spend in the gym the bigger your body and muscles will get.

4-5 times a week 45-60min intense sessions should make  any one grow IF theyre hormonized.

3 times a week 45-60min moderate intensity sessions should make any one grow if they're natural.

*age dependent. 18 year old will grow no matter what he does. 30 year old will not unless follow the rules above.

[KTMckay]

this is the rule of thumb you should go by past the initial 3 year trial and error of natural training:

the less time you spend in the gym the bigger your body and muscles will get.

4-5 times a week 45-60min intense sessions should make  any one grow IF theyre hormonized.

3 times a week 45-60min moderate intensity sessions should make any one grow if they're natural.

*age dependent. 18 year old will grow no matter what he does. 30 year old will not unless follow the rules above.

i wish my legs would have grown no matter what i did lol...

[chris_mason]

2-3 sets of squats kills me. Absolute failure with forced reps on squats is insane. I'm not talking about HIT, but just very intensite low volume training.

And HIT is less stressful on the nervous system and overall physical system because of the rest required. I train 30-40 minutes a week. That's juusst fine with my body!

HIT is less stressful on the nervous system and overall physical system?  Really?  You base this assertation upon what?

I agree that less work is performed but the intensity of effort required places a huge demand on the body.  Again, this varies with one's overall degree of development. 

Your point about 30-40 minutes is a good one.  One component of training for anyone should be overall fitness and caloric expenditure.  Your heart certainly gets very little work training 30-40 minutes per week.  In addition, you just don't burn many calories with exercise that way. 

[BEAST 8692]

HIT is less stressful on the nervous system and overall physical system?  Really?  You base this assertation upon what?

I agree that less work is performed but the intensity of effort required places a huge demand on the body.  Again, this varies with one's overall degree of development. 

Your point about 30-40 minutes is a good one.  One component of training for anyone should be overall fitness and caloric expenditure.  Your heart certainly gets very little work training 30-40 minutes per week.  In addition, you just don't burn many calories with exercise that way. 

i agree with the calorie expenditure part and it is a very good point. i immediately thought of that when uk gold pointed out how he got strong and fat.

most bbers simply eat far too much anyway. it is the first thing a bber is conditioned to do ie gain weight first and foremost. then you read the super calorie, protein, etc diets from the successful guys and that just reinforces the message.

it is a fact that building muscle itself will result in a faster metabolism, but nowhere near fast enough to accomodate the huge caloric intakes these now dedicated consumers of food ingest.

weight trainers eat a lot more than average people. more than we think.

i will relate an experience:

years ago i trained with a skinny guy (friend of mine) who told me he ate shit loads of food and couldn't gain weight.

i was somewhat bewildered because we worked together and witnessed him eating huge feasts whilst i would try to eat fairly clean (try). he was doing weights with me and apparently taking in more calories so what was the problem? faster metabolism? negative.

anyway, life was pretty much partying, girls and sun back then so we ended up renting a house together with some other friends and i then got to witness what this guy ACTUALLY ate throughout the day.

the facts became clear. i ate about 3 TIMES more calories than him and i wasn't trying to gain weight.

yes he would gorge 1 - 3 feasts every day, but he would often miss meals whereas i hadn't gone 4 hrs without a meal since i was 14. unbelievably he would get drunk like everyone else, but HE WOULDN'T BOTHER EATING. hey getting drunk and having fun is one thing, but you're a body builder, EAT SOMETHING!

anyway, y'all should get the point by now.

one of the things i find fascinating about mentzer is that, in spite of being one of the most muscular bbers of his time he ate very average, not even 100 grms of protein when preparing for comp and would contest prep on sometimes 500 calories per day, which would usually just be some cake and fruit and stuff where the 500grms of protein.

funny how even when we read this stuff and see the evidence right there we still carry on with the whole 'gotta get my 300grms of protein.'

all that 'eat big to get big' nonsense gets you big all right, big and fat.



a

[figgs]

HIT is less stressful on the nervous system and overall physical system?  Really?  You base this assertation upon what?

I agree that less work is performed but the intensity of effort required places a huge demand on the body.  Again, this varies with one's overall degree of development. 

Your point about 30-40 minutes is a good one.  One component of training for anyone should be overall fitness and caloric expenditure.  Your heart certainly gets very little work training 30-40 minutes per week.  In addition, you just don't burn many calories with exercise that way. 

That's why I do a lot more cardio. With all my time away from the weights, I still go to the gym and swim followed by steam room sessions! I run and bike and keep my diet clean.

HIT is not a fitness routine. It's a muscle size and strength routine. Purely that and nothing else. It's a challenge as well, which is why I love it as much as I do.

i agree with the calorie expenditure part and it is a very good point. i immediately thought of that when uk gold pointed out how he got strong and fat.

most bbers simply eat far too much anyway. it is the first thing a bber is conditioned to do ie gain weight first and foremost. then you read the super calorie, protein, etc diets from the successful guys and that just reinforces the message.

it is a fact that building muscle itself will result in a faster metabolism, but nowhere near fast enough to accomodate the huge caloric intakes these now dedicated consumers of food ingest.

weight trainers eat a lot more than average people. more than we think.

i will relate an experience:

years ago i trained with a skinny guy (friend of mine) who told me he ate shit loads of food and couldn't gain weight.

i was somewhat bewildered because we worked together and witnessed him eating huge feasts whilst i would try to eat fairly clean (try). he was doing weights with me and apparently taking in more calories so what was the problem? faster metabolism? negative.

anyway, life was pretty much partying, girls and sun back then so we ended up renting a house together with some other friends and i then got to witness what this guy ACTUALLY ate throughout the day.

the facts became clear. i ate about 3 TIMES more calories than him and i wasn't trying to gain weight.

yes he would gorge 1 - 3 feasts every day, but he would often miss meals whereas i hadn't gone 4 hrs without a meal since i was 14. unbelievably he would get drunk like everyone else, but HE WOULDN'T BOTHER EATING. hey getting drunk and having fun is one thing, but you're a body builder, EAT SOMETHING!

anyway, y'all should get the point by now.

one of the things i find fascinating about mentzer is that, in spite of being one of the most muscular bbers of his time he ate very average, not even 100 grms of protein when preparing for comp and would contest prep on sometimes 500 calories per day, which would usually just be some cake and fruit and stuff where the 500grms of protein.

funny how even when we read this stuff and see the evidence right there we still carry on with the whole 'gotta get my 300grms of protein.'

all that 'eat big to get big' nonsense gets you big all right, big and fat.



a

I learned that Mentzer believed a well balanced diet was all that was required to both function and compensate for the energy depletion following a workout. I believe that to a certain extent. I don't eat over 3,000 clean calories a day. I know bodybuilders who eat 3,500-4,000 so in comparison I'm not a big eater (although I could be!).

[davie]

I have to say i was always a pretty high volume guy, with at least 12-15 sets for big body parts and about 9 for arms/traps.
Im now down to 8 sets for big muscles. I am trying to focus more on the intensity side of things. I think so called hardgainers (guess im kinda one tho i dont like the label and not sure if it 100% exists) need to train very intensely to get their muscles working in order to grow.

One quote i believe from mentzer .... " You can train hard or you can train long. You just cant do both. And it just so happens that it takes hard work to build big muscles."

davie

[finurface]

simply asking
I am no expert but it makes me wondering.

if training 5 times a week is so bad, those guys shouldn't be able to gain mass yet they have incredible tighs and back devolopement

because they are genetically gifted endomorphes or mesomorphes..there s no way a natural ectomorph could build muscles as big training each muscle twice a weak 5 days a week...

do what works better for you.
In my case, Biceps and traps grew like weed, but even if i pound my pectorals, they just doesnt seem to grow as fast as my others muscular groups...genetics...im a pure ectomorph too...

[The True Adonis]

i agree with the calorie expenditure part and it is a very good point. i immediately thought of that when uk gold pointed out how he got strong and fat.

most bbers simply eat far too much anyway. it is the first thing a bber is conditioned to do ie gain weight first and foremost. then you read the super calorie, protein, etc diets from the successful guys and that just reinforces the message.

it is a fact that building muscle itself will result in a faster metabolism, but nowhere near fast enough to accomodate the huge caloric intakes these now dedicated consumers of food ingest.

weight trainers eat a lot more than average people. more than we think.

i will relate an experience:

years ago i trained with a skinny guy (friend of mine) who told me he ate shit loads of food and couldn't gain weight.

i was somewhat bewildered because we worked together and witnessed him eating huge feasts whilst i would try to eat fairly clean (try). he was doing weights with me and apparently taking in more calories so what was the problem? faster metabolism? negative.

anyway, life was pretty much partying, girls and sun back then so we ended up renting a house together with some other friends and i then got to witness what this guy ACTUALLY ate throughout the day.

the facts became clear. i ate about 3 TIMES more calories than him and i wasn't trying to gain weight.

yes he would gorge 1 - 3 feasts every day, but he would often miss meals whereas i hadn't gone 4 hrs without a meal since i was 14. unbelievably he would get drunk like everyone else, but HE WOULDN'T BOTHER EATING. hey getting drunk and having fun is one thing, but you're a body builder, EAT SOMETHING!

anyway, y'all should get the point by now.

one of the things i find fascinating about mentzer is that, in spite of being one of the most muscular bbers of his time he ate very average, not even 100 grms of protein when preparing for comp and would contest prep on sometimes 500 calories per day, which would usually just be some cake and fruit and stuff where the 500grms of protein.

funny how even when we read this stuff and see the evidence right there we still carry on with the whole 'gotta get my 300grms of protein.'

all that 'eat big to get big' nonsense gets you big all right, big and fat.



a

Your friend was smart.

Its too easy.

[finurface]

its always funny to see skinny ectomorphes who think they re going to get as big as an endomorphe or mesomorphe...they should be realistic..there s a huge gap between their own perception of how they look, what they want to look like, and what mother nature gave em...

Be realistic and be a freak of nature, whatever natures gaves you...If you do your best with what you have, you re going to look great and impressive, even if you re not going to be 300 pounds of sheer muscle mass..

A pure ectomorphe with a ripped and muscular physique, with veins poping from everywhere, is as impressive as an endomorphe who powerlifts and looks like a moutain of muscles.

They re both good at what they re doing, if they do it with passion.

But enough of these ectomorphic skinny 120 lbs idiots who think they re going to weight 300 pounds of pure muscle with bull traps,canon bowls pectorals and shoulders,  25 inches arms and 50 inches thigs...

[DIVISION]

I switched because I was told I would stop growing that way but when I bulked up from a real skinny weakling to present I used volume so maybe I will go back.  I have to say the gym was more fun in those days too. Back a few years ago I would do 4 sets squat, 4 front squats, 4 leg press, 4 hack squats, 4 leg extensions then go do hamstrings and calves.  Never to failure but I would go pale almost every time.

If you are a hardgainer, and you'd know if you were, volume work is the best way to grow.

Your workout would seem like overtraining to everyone else.

A personal trainer friend!!HE sounds LEGIT!!

He's got four certifications, so he knows what he's doing I'd say.  He's also a hardgainer so he knows what works for him.

I'd hate to be a hardgainer........having to eat non-stop or lose mass.

Those guys have it rough.


DIV

[Bast000]

Certainly there is undereating, but that doesn't mean you should eat a surplus of food.  You will simply add fat.  Eat the right amount to slowly gain weight.  If you gain a pound a week like many try to do, you will gain fat pretty quickly.

For training I simply don't train a muscle if it is still sore.

[sinbad]

its always funny to see skinny ectomorphes who think they re going to get as big as an endomorphe or mesomorphe...they should be realistic..there s a huge gap between their own perception of how they look, what they want to look like, and what mother nature gave em...

Be realistic and be a freak of nature, whatever natures gaves you...If you do your best with what you have, you re going to look great and impressive, even if you re not going to be 300 pounds of sheer muscle mass..

A pure ectomorphe with a ripped and muscular physique, with veins poping from everywhere, is as impressive as an endomorphe who powerlifts and looks like a moutain of muscles.

They re both good at what they re doing, if they do it with passion.

But enough of these ectomorphic skinny 120 lbs idiots who think they re going to weight 300 pounds of pure muscle with bull traps,canon bowls pectorals and shoulders,  25 inches arms and 50 inches thigs...

I accepted this all long time ago. I will make the best of what I have.

As for the over training, it is what most somewhat beginners do. I work out 3 days a week for 45 minutes(if I am lucky) and I have the best build of anyone I know. I work out with these fools who come in the gym all hyped up to do something, saying we need to do this and that, work every set to failure, work out 7 days a week. I try and tell them what is up, and they don't listen, I say look at me, and look at yourself, maybe you should listen to me?, they never last gone in a month, then do it again the next year. Consistancy is what gets it done.

[TheGoldenPrince]

Actually, overtraining is not a myth, esp as one gets older.

[davie]

If you are a hardgainer, and you'd know if you were, volume work is the best way to grow.

Your workout would seem like overtraining to everyone else.

He's got four certifications, so he knows what he's doing I'd say.  He's also a hardgainer so he knows what works for him.

I'd hate to be a hardgainer........having to eat non-stop or lose mass.

Those guys have it rough.


DIV

I think im kinda hardgainer (most of us are a mix of ectom meso...or sum combination), if i dont eat too well/much my weight just stays the same. But increasing weight requires quite alot of food.
Though saying that if i didint have rugby 3 times a week mayb id put on weight alot quicker lol.

I think so called hardgainers need alot of intensity instead of lifting until it starts to get tuff then mving to another exercise. Working until u can hardly lift (after proper warmups) is the way to force ur strength/size levels up!!

guys who gain easier can lift and chat etc and probs still gain if on good diet etc. But hardgainers need to really get every fiber by lifting heavy and with alot of intensity. So i am not really sure high volume is the way to go for hardgainer!!
High volume keeps u in gym too long and anything over an hour starts to be counter productive i feel.
Iv done v high volume, and i find myself lifting harder and harder and reducing sets more and more.

davie

[GoneAway]

I'm an ectomorph and I need alot of food to put on weight, but I don't believe that I'm destined to be a lightweight in BB terms. It may be harder to get bigger, but that's what BBing is.

[Figo]

its always funny to see skinny ectomorphes who think they re going to get as big as an endomorphe or mesomorphe...they should be realistic..there s a huge gap between their own perception of how they look, what they want to look like, and what mother nature gave em...

Be realistic and be a freak of nature, whatever natures gaves you...If you do your best with what you have, you re going to look great and impressive, even if you re not going to be 300 pounds of sheer muscle mass..

A pure ectomorphe with a ripped and muscular physique, with veins poping from everywhere, is as impressive as an endomorphe who powerlifts and looks like a moutain of muscles.

They re both good at what they re doing, if they do it with passion.

But enough of these ectomorphic skinny 120 lbs idiots who think they re going to weight 300 pounds of pure muscle with bull traps,canon bowls pectorals and shoulders,  25 inches arms and 50 inches thigs...

I used to think like that, I now realize that I'll never weigh more than 295lbs, and whereas my traps are bull sized, my pecs and delts are like cannon balls, my arms will never go above 24 1/2, and my thighs will never breakthrough 48in...

Its a sad reality, but one that you literally have to live with.

Good post man.