Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already

[240 is Back]

1) Did LBJ order the USS liberty to be sunk by the Israelis in 1967 in a failed bid to get us into war with Russia?

2) Did the US lie about the Gulf of Tonken to get us into Viet Nam?

3) Did the US DoD plan a 911-style attack in the early 60s in which fake terror attacks and fake plane crashes would occur to motivate the US pop to support war with Cuba?

4) Was a US president asked in 1964 to change JFK's autopsy to reflect a bullet hitting 2 inches lower than it actually had?

The answer to all four is a resounding YES, and these are all provable.  back then, skeptics were probably mocked by pompous, ignorant people who believed what the TV told them.  But history has shown the US govt lied in a historid manner (and illegal in some of them) in order to achieve military goals.

Can you at the very least admit these 4 events occurred so we can start on a level field of discussion in that YES, the US govt has used false attacks and coverups in the past causing loss of American lives?

Delusional, why won't you answer these 4 quesitons?

[Al-Gebra]

As someone infinitely better informed than you on 3 out of the 4 topics, I'll answer. 

1.  No

2.  No

3.  No

4.  If I could do a young Marilyn Monroe before I die, I really wouldn't give a shit about what happens to me.

[240 is Back]

As someone infinitely better informed than you on 3 out of the 4 topics, I'll answer. 

1.  No

2.  No

3.  No

4.  If I could do a young Marilyn Monroe before I die, I really wouldn't give a shit about what happens to me.

It's hard to argue with you when you won't consider facts. 

I invite any observers of this conversation to research the Gulf of Tonken declassified docs which admit the attack was a fabrication of middle mgmt at the pentagon to influence decision to attack.  I invite you all to research the USS liberty and 2005 declassified documents involving the ISR attack and more importantly, LBJ's ordered inaction.

And sweet jesus, al-gebra, you're embarassing yourself.  go google 'Operation Northwoods' and you'll learn all about the eerily-similar 911 plot hatched by the Dod in the 60's which was killed by JFK.  You claim to be better informed but you don't know about northwoods?  wow...

[240 is Back]

3) Did the US DoD plan a 911-style attack in the early 60s in which fake terror attacks and fake plane crashes would occur to motivate the US pop to support war with Cuba?

As someone infinitely better informed than you on 3 out of the 4 topics, I'll answer. 

3.  No

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Fucking A, dude.

[Bigger Business]

what?!?!?  Once again, America is out of step with the rest of the world.

PS. How's the Australian 9/11 investigation coming?

yeah its good thanks

[Al-Gebra]

woohoo . . . wikipedia.  my sources are a little better. and, i'll bet that the article doesn't agree w what you say . . . as I said, 240, you play fast and loose. you get no points for that.

Now where's my money? 

[240 is Back]

woohoo . . . wikipedia.  my sources are a little better. and, i'll bet that the article doesn't agree w what you say . . . as I said, 240, you play fast and loose. you get no points for that.

Now where's my money? 

send me your paypal info.

Are you seriously saying wikipedia 'made up' Operation northwoods? 

If you'd read the link, it contains links to the original declassified DoD documents.  Are you then saying that wiki forges govt documents? 

*Who* is playing it fast and loose now?  I provide concrete proof of a us govt plan to fake flag terror attack.  You reply with accusations that wiki is committing forgeries here?

[Al-Gebra]

send me your paypal info.

Are you seriously saying wikipedia 'made up' Operation northwoods? 

If you'd read the link, it contains links to the original declassified DoD documents.  Are you then saying that wiki forges govt documents? 

*Who* is playing it fast and loose now?  I provide concrete proof of a us govt plan to fake flag terror attack. You reply with accusations that wiki is committing forgeries here?

what's paypal? 













j/k













I want cash

I'm not saying the documents were forged. what i'm saying is that you and the authors of that article are trying to take a yard where there's an inch.

here's an analogy:
The OLC wrote a memo saying the president had the right to define torture narrowly, and that  Cong (never mind the judiciary) should butt out. 

That doesn't mean thatBush or Cong or the judicial dept endorsed the memo. 

and it doesn't mean the govt endorsed your plan either. 

hth, but I really doubt it will.
fast and loose. like i said. 

[240 is Back]

why are you changing the subject?

Yes or No?  Did the Us govt hatch a plot to false flag terror and plane crash in order to motivate the us population?

Yes or no?  Read Northwoods - it details it very clearly.

[240 is Back]

algebra, you took it from discussion to insults, and claimed you knew more about the topics than I do.

Please tell us about operation northwoods.  You see what I wrote, and you said 'no'.

Please tell us, since you know more about it than I do.  thanks in advance!

[Al-Gebra]

Which part of "No" is unclear? 

Military planners have lots of ideas . . . and Northwoods was not the craziest by far. 

Like i said, i didn't expect you to understand.  but maybe someone else will.

[240 is Back]

Which part of "No" is unclear? 

Military planners have lots of ideas . . . and Northwoods was not the craziest by far. 

Like i said, i didn't expect you to understand.  but maybe someone else will.

"3) Did the US DoD plan a 911-style attack in the early 60s in which fake terror attacks and fake plane crashes would occur to motivate the US pop to support war with Cuba?"

The DoD presented it to JFK.  They wanted to do it.  He declined, and fired Lemitzer I think, for proposing it.

[Al-Gebra]

He declined, and fired Lemitzer I think, for proposing it.

executive declined, cong didn't vote on it, and the judiciary didn't rule on it. Should I take this as your concession? Pl. see all the posts on this pg before responding. 

[240 is Back]

Military planners have lots of ideas . . . and Northwoods was not the craziest by far. 

Compare 1961 to 2001.

it's just like if Rummy brought Bush a covert plan called "Operation 911".  

JFK had the moral integrity to reject the document and fire the man.  

Do you think GW Bush would have the strength and moral integrity to fire Rummy for proposing such an idea?

[240 is Back]

executive declined, cong didn't see it, and the judiciary didn't rule on it. Should I take this as your concession? Pl. see all the posts on this pg before responding. 

So um, you're saying all secret military operations are approved by congress and jud? Um, no.

You're talking declared acts of war.  This was a black bag op.  Cong never would have seen it.

[Bigger Business]

You guys had a crack at that pic with the 74 bands?

man I'm doin my head in!

[Al-Gebra]

So um, you're saying all secret military operations are approved by congress and jud? Um, no.

You're talking declared acts of war.  This was a black bag op.  Cong never would have seen it.

so if the exec declines, and cong and the judiciary don't know, then how is it the US govt's plan?

[240 is Back]

so if the exec declines, and cong and the judiciary don't know, then how is it the US govt's plan?

exactly!  you now have completely made my point about really bad things being done, with only a very small % of the US govt knowing about it!

IF JFK had okay'd it, we would have had staged street bombings in Miami and fake plane crashes.  (Those are in northwoods.)  Congress wouldn't have known anything but what they saw on the news.

See how 9/11 could have happened?  DoD & White house staff are major neocons - you know many of them wrote that PNAC documents in which they called for a 'second pearl harbor to justify aggression in mid east'.  Congress wouldn't have known - and anyone who called it an inside job after 9/11 was scorned terribly in the press.

I'm smiling because I think it's getting clearer now - 911 could have happened with a small group at DoD and a small group at the white house.  99% of our govt would know nothing, and IMO most of them are good people who love their country and wuld have balked at such an idea.

[Dos Equis]

LOL. I'm pulling up a chair to watch the meltdowns . . .

   Me too.  Haven't made it through the entire thread yet . . . .

[Dos Equis]

i've got an MBA, undergrad in history - i should have understood the economics and the precedent behind it. 

You forgot "I'm a Republican."  Can BB or someone just make this a sticky so you don't have to say it like every day?  In case you haven't noticed, it doesn't enhance your credibility. 

[Dos Equis]

Most can agree that 4 planes were "hijacked" and two apparently flew into the WTC 1 and 2 (those "events" can be acknowledged without having to believe they were the sole procuring cause of other events)

Most?  You mean the numerous shots of the planes flying into the WTC buildings could have been faked?   

[240 is Back]

Most?  You mean the numerous shots of the planes flying into the WTC buildings could have been faked?  

I know, in your blindness and willingness only to swallow what if given to you by the oh-so-honest Bush admin, you haven't read anything from the skeptics.

But some people believe flight 77 (pentagon) was a little different from the "5 guys stab their way into the cockpit then crash it.  For one, there was some event in which a crash was reported at the oh/kentucky border during the time flight 77 fell off the radar magically for 5 minutes.  Flight 77 had no listed flight plan like the others that day.  Many anomalies with the passenger list - including the fact that no tickets were sold to any arabs.  No autopsy was done on any arabs.  No arabs on the flight manifests.  I can share the complete list of oddities which make many wonder.  Then you look at the crash site - a hole which is smaller than the fuselage, through three newly reinforced building, no jet fuel burning you see at other crashes, and somehow 125 tons of airplane converted itself to less than one ton of debris, along with witness statement huge discrepencies, and the fact all 80 videotapes somehow malfunctioned.

Nice little story.

[mightymouse72]

240, you make me sad for this country     

delusional, keep up the good work.

[240 is Back]

240, you make me sad for this country     

delusional, keep up the good work.

Think about who you endorse.

Last night, delusional called for the extermination of any people who don't believe Bush's story on 911.

And as much as you deny it, what I am doing is working for the COnstitution.  Sounds like you're working for a particular political party.

[JOHN MATRIX]

'al-gebra', 'beach bum', and 'delusional liberal' are the kind of guys who require an officially-sanctioned major university study in order to accept that the sky is in fact blue.