Sergio 1976 - 1985

[Moosejay]

Joe was a private owner and had to choose who to put on the cover of his magazines during the 60's and 70's. He would put Arnold (white) over Sergio (colored). This happened during a critical time when colored people were not treated well and alot of Racism was around, more than today. If I'm the owner and I have a white guy that can make me millions and I have a colored guy that can only make me half of what the white guy can make me. Let me guess, who should I promote more and make champion?

[Moosejay]

In response to post #109:

Joe Weider was also among the first publishers, amid great controversy, to put a black bb, Leroy Colbert, on the cover of his magazine back in the '60's.

[pumpster]

Arnold dwarfs Sergio.

Hope this helps.

Funny, because he's getting owned here.

[alexxx]

Funny, because he's getting owned here.

Owned is too big a word. I would say schooled by the looks of things!

[pumpster]

Owned is too big a word. I would say schooled by the looks of things!

Semantics.

[Lord Humungous]

Funny, because he's getting owned here.

HAHAH look at Sergios tris  good God!!!

[realkarateblackbelt]

Arnold is owning them all in that last pic. When I see Sergio I don't think "olympian". He looks like a midget with odd proportions. Reminds me of Capriese Murray.

[NarcissisticDeity]

If you don't believe in the bodybuilding polotics game then you would never understand. I never said that Arnold beat Sergio, ever. In My opinion, Sergio deserved to win over Arnold every time they met, but Joe wouldn't let that happen because he was building up his "money machine". I've mentioned many other things more than magazines in my previous post but you fail you bring it up. You think bodybuilders only make money buy competing in contests? They make money with promotions, contracts, advertising, guest appearance etc. the list goes on. So please don't bring that logic bs to me.

You're not getting the point

You claim the Weiders fix contests to make a marketable bodybuilder win

I said if thats the case why let Sergio ever win? why not let Draper or Sipes win?

You say they simply weren't good enough to beat Sergio

You say that Arnold shouldn't have beat Sergio anytime they faced each other

And I say If Arnold wasn't good enough to beat Sergio and the Weiders let him anyway , your logic contradicts itself , if they let Arnold win even though he wasn't as good as Sergio they good have just have easily made Draper beat Sergio , who was more marketable than Sergio , you're trapped in your own warped logic.

If the Weider's did work this way , Sergio Oliva would have never been Mr Olympia in 1967/68/69 , Dave Draper would have been in 1967/1968 until Arnold competed in the 1969 Mr Olympia and then they could have picked him , for marketing reasons 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Find me a post where I said Arnold clearly beat Sergio? You can't. Stop spreading lies. Is that how low you are willing to go?

English must not be your first language.  its NOT a lie I never claimed you said Arnold clearly beat Sergio I said You claimed Arnold beat Sergio despite NOT being better than him.

[jwb]

people who say arnold NEVER beat sergio need their heads examined... he killed him in 1970

[Lord Humungous]

Arnold is owning them all in that last pic. When I see Sergio I don't think "olympian". He looks like a midget with odd proportions. Reminds me of Capriese Murray.

Congratulations you are the only person ive ever heard call Sergio a midget.  5'10' 248 is one seriously big midget. You just flushed any creditability out the window.

[jwb]

Congratulations you are the only person ive ever heard call Sergio a midget.  5'10' 248 is one seriously big midget. You just flushed any creditability out the window.

248 my ass

[NarcissisticDeity]

Sergio was 5'10" and about 240 he was a very big guy but the bigger he got the more his detail suffered and this is what hurt him.

[Sergio Rules 77]

posing ability played a big role in this one...

arnold was an AWESOME poser... he made himself look better than he actually was... those twisting 3/4's were insane not forgetting the side chest and the front double bi.

sergio was a woeful poser... he generally DID eventually get himself into a reasonable position for most poses but his transitions were terrible and made him look small... don't forget he was only around 5'9 and 230 in cut shape - that ain't a huge man - he did have great hip structure though which helped him.

As someone who has lots of footage of Sergio, I have to take offence to people who say he was a terrible poser. The only time his posing sucked was at the 1984 Olympia, and admittedly it was F*CK TERRIBLE. It wasn't much better at the 1985 Olympia, but it was better. His posing at the 1966 Mr World, 1968 & 1970 Olympia was great and at the 1972 Olympia he was as dynamic and aggressive as I've seen anyone pose. At the other shows I have, he's as good as anyone from the era. He may not have been Ed Corney or Lee Labrada but in his younger days he was pretty good.

SERGIO!!!!

[davie]

Sergio was a midget, oh my word!!

In those pics arnold looks good (i am a big fan of his!!), but  sergio has him on tris, forearms, smaller waist bigger quads (arnolds r probs more detailed), other things r about the same, tho sergios lats look better from the front than arnolds. ANd his chest looks better from front.

davie

[NarcissisticDeity]

Sergio was a midget, oh my word!!

In those pics arnold looks good (i am a big fan of his!!), but  sergio has him on tris, forearms, smaller waist bigger quads (arnolds r probs more detailed), other things r about the same, tho sergios lats look better from the front than arnolds. ANd his chest looks better from front.

davie

I agree with everything except the chest ! Arnold's chest was the best.

[logical?]

I agree with everything except the chest ! Arnold's chest was the best.

Arnold's chest was amazing. I'm undecided if he had more muscle than Sergio, or if it just came down to the monstrous rib cage he possessed.

[davie]

Arnold's chest was amazing. I'm undecided if he had more muscle than Sergio, or if it just came down to the monstrous rib cage he possessed.

He did have a rib cage probs more suited to a silver back gorilla lol.

I agree that he had amazing chest and that it was one of the best ever, but in that particular shot i wud giv it to sergio b/c i dont think that was a very good pose for arnold. It suited sergios chest better.

davie

[realkarateblackbelt]

You guys are nuts if you think Sergio was owning Arnold in that pic. He has him on everything. Definition, biceps, quads, chest, and overall.
Sergio had no symmetry or balance at all. He looks like he could walk on his arms like a gorilla. He's 5'10''? Fine. Arnold makes him look short and unappealing. He damn sure isn't 248 either.

[logical?]

You guys are nuts if you think Sergio was owning Arnold in that pic. He has him on everything. Definition, biceps, quads, chest, and overall.
Sergio had no symmetry or balance at all. He looks like he could walk on his arms like a gorilla. He's 5'10''? Fine. Arnold makes him look short and unappealing. He damn sure isn't 248 either.

Definition- fine, Arnold was in better condition. Biceps- we've already been over this, it's a matter of taste. Some people like short, high peaked biceps (Arnold). Others (me) think that long, full biceps (Levrone's, Oliva's) look more powerful and massive.

Quads, no way. Arnold might have Sergio on separation, but this comes back to the conditioning factor. Sergio's quads were considerably bigger than Arnold's, and had way better shape and sweep. Sergio's quads were actually round and curved from the front, way ahead of his peers. Chest, debatable. Arnold has a bigger ribcage, but Sergio has phenomenally (and famously) thick pecs.

No symmetry or balance? Where do I even begin tearing this apart? Firstly, Arnold just looks wrong in the front lat spread. His waist is way too big for his shoulder and back width, not to mention his quad sweep. The result is the classic fridge look- Arnold never looked good in this shot. Shoulders- Arnold has a narrow structure relative to his waist. Sergio isn't the widest guy around, but he can get away with it with a 29" waist. Plus, Sergio's shoulders are actually bigger and better developed. Arnold's bis are too big for his tris, his chest too big for his lats from the front. You call that balance or symmetry?

So then somehow you arrive at the conclusion that Arnold had better 'overall', ok, whatever the hell 'overall' is

[realkarateblackbelt]

Sergio loses "overall" because the physique doesn't flow.

In other words, he has no balance. He's a collection of great bodyparts that don't really match. Huge arms (though not bigger than Arnolds) on a torso and legs that doesn't match up.

His chest is definately not bigger. I forget which rag recently voted Arnold the greatest chest of all time, but he was in one of them. I don't think Serge even made top 10.

Arnold's waste isn't wide either. It's wider than Serge's, but I don't think Serge's small waste helps him. It just amplifies the total unbalance of his physique.

Standing the two together, Arnold looks more statuesque. He's a true bodybuilder, in that he made sure everything was balanced on his body. He sculpted his body like and artist would sculpt a statue. And he just looks so much more Olympian because of his height. Serge looks stalky.

Arnold - superior definition
Arnold - superior height
Arnold - superior chest
Arnold - superior biceps (imo)
Arnold - superior back (due to definition and thickness)
Arnold - superior quads (due to definition)

And the judges agree with me.

Serge = Capriese Murray 


"ALIEN MUSCLE" LOL

[logical?]

Sergio loses "overall" because the physique doesn't flow.

In other words, he has no balance. He's a collection of great bodyparts that don't really match. Huge arms (though not bigger than Arnolds) on a torso and legs that doesn't match up.

His chest is definately not bigger. I forget which rag recently voted Arnold the greatest chest of all time, but he was in one of them. I don't think Serge even made top 10.

Arnold's waste isn't wide either. It's wider than Serge's, but I don't think Serge's small waste helps him. It just amplifies the total unbalance of his physique.

Standing the two together, Arnold looks more statuesque. He's a true bodybuilder, in that he made sure everything was balanced on his body. He sculpted his body like and artist would sculpt a statue. And he just looks so much more Olympian because of his height. Serge looks stalky.

Arnold - superior definition
Arnold - superior height
Arnold - superior chest
Arnold - superior biceps (imo)
Arnold - superior back (due to definition and thickness)
Arnold - superior quads (due to definition)

And the judges agree with me.

Serge = Capriese Murray 


"ALIEN MUSCLE" LOL

Sergio's arms are certainly bigger than Arnold's.





In that second shot, Sergio's tris are so big that his outer forearm- tricep is actually a circle.

I don't really care which mag voted what where and to who- Sergio had a massive chest. His physique doesn't flow? Relative to Arnold it flows just fine. He had a smaller waist, smaller bone structure and wider clavicles relative to his height- there are no problems with flow on Sergio's physique. His muscle bellies were long and full.

Arnold's waist was 34". Now this is Arnold's measurement, given in the same set that gave his arms as 22.25 and his chest as 57-58. So, I gather it's a minimum. Sergio's was tiny in comparison.

You're using these 'balance' and 'flow' concepts very loosely. Can you define them strictly, so we can understand what you mean, or so we can examine how you apply them to Sergio and Arnold?

Arnold looks more statueesque because he's taller, poses better and is in better condition.

Arnold is no truer a bodybuilder than Sergio. If you're defining this by balance on his body, well, sorry, but there are plenty of balance issues- I've alluded to them above (you didn't reply to that I notice).

No, he told us he sculpted his body like an artist in the same movie and in the same way as he  told us he didn't attend his father's funeral. In otherwords- BS.

[logical?]

Believe this may have been the same contest,





Try telling me Arnold had arms that size (includes forearms), back development or shape like that. You talk about Sergio not having balance? That shot is bodybuilding. Sometimes I think you mean Serge Nubret.

[realkarateblackbelt]

Post some pics comparing the two together performing the same poses.

Arnold just dwarfes him.

Arnold flows, because each bodypart - arms, chest, legs, backs, etc is proportioned. Sergio is all arms. I don't see what the big deal is with this guy really. You don't care what the mags say, but most people do. These editors have been in the industry long enough to make these kind of decisions. Arnold was selected as having the greatest chest of all time! This shouldn't even be up for debate. His arms were just huge with massive peaks. Full AND peaked. The total package.

Take a tall guy, with bigger shoulders, chest, biceps, and FAR superior definition, and I'll show you the superior bodybuilder.

Serge alone looks great. He WAS great. Stand him next to Arnold and his faults become apparent to the critical eye...

And...

the judges agree!

[realkarateblackbelt]

Full and peaked!