Author Topic: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!  (Read 48827 times)

realkarateblackbelt

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #250 on: December 13, 2006, 08:16:32 PM »
lol.

That guy groaning in the Mentzer training tape like he's in a porno movie is hilarious. Imagine if some clown was doing that in the gym. That's so contrived.

Obviously, Ah-nold had the superior physique. So Ah-nold had the best technique.

Really, all you need to do is work the muscle until it's pumped and then stop. That's how Vince Gironda trained, and he's natural.
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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #251 on: December 14, 2006, 01:05:55 AM »
II also played around last year with a technique that metzer used...I dont' remember what it was called but you stop the weight 3 times during the negative phase of the movement...I called them triple stops but I dont' remember what he called them. 

Stutter reps.
and keep moving!

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #252 on: December 14, 2006, 03:23:37 AM »
You could just as easily say that Dorian used a variation of volume training - less sets and more intensity ;D

Yes just as u could say arnold used a variation of intensity training - less intensity and more sets!!

Its never gonna b resolveed!! and the volume followers are right that arnold was amazing and followed high volume, but alot of the other top physiques at the time used fewer sets and higher intensity.

To call HIT users fat and lazy is just stupid. Especially wen in reality the training is far more intelligent. Intensity is work  x time, it seems they all know that working out for hours getting a good looking pump, will not bring about the same growth as 1/2 hour workign as hard as u can.

Most folk love lifting weights while looking about the gym for approval from other lifters, They dont like the idea of workouts that are hard and painful to finish and require huge levels of mental strength and will power, and all their focus!!

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #253 on: December 14, 2006, 03:32:01 AM »

To call HIT users fat and lazy is just stupid. Especially wen in reality the training is far more intelligent. Intensity is work  x time, it seems they all know that working out for hours getting a good looking pump, will not bring about the same growth as 1/2 hour workign as hard as u can.

Most folk love lifting weights while looking about the gym for approval from other lifters, They dont like the idea of workouts that are hard and painful to finish and require huge levels of mental strength and will power, and all their focus!!

davie

why would hit training be far more intelligent? why would they have the same growth in 1/2 hour?
and i'd say being to the gym for hours would be very tough, hell i'm glad i don't follow a high reps training that's tough for me, doing an endless number of reps.
low reps are easy on the mind.
Z

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #254 on: December 14, 2006, 04:17:15 AM »
Unless someone is doing some crazy way out shit I don't believe in that over training is possible.

Thank GOD someone here has some SENSE.

Over-training is NOT POSSIBLE for 95% of the people who EVER enter into the realm of bodybuilding.  Why?  Because they don't combine INTENSITY with VOLUME.  Dumbasses on here who do HIT (a couple "warm-up" sets followed by one to failure...no more than an hour per workout..etc.) are just flat out LAZY. 

I ask ALL of you HIT idiots this, again:

WHY would you take ANY ANGLE IN LIFE that consists of you taking the RISK of accomplishing MORE by doing LESS rather than pushing your body to the max and encompassing VOLUME in your workouts?  You do realize that any-and-everyone that you talk to about your "HIT-training" knows that you are just lazy, correct?
[/b]
90% of the natural guys out there that have been training for an extended amount of time and look the exact same as they did a year ago are over trained.  Once a muscle hits a certain point that's all it needs, after that you're not stimulating muscle growth your tapping into your recovery ability and once you start to do that you begin to put stress on your CNS and then you overtrain.  Now there are a select few guys out there that can go and go and go and not evertrain but for the average guy eventually you're gonna hit a wall.  this is especially true IMO of ectomorphs, I think they have the tendencie to overtrain.

the bolder part of your statement proves one thing to me.  You have no idea how to work hard at anything in life.  You have no idea of what any aspect of HIT training is about, you're accomplishing more or jsut about the same in a shorter period of time...what's wrong with that?

What exactly is your definition of HIT?  Do you have any idea what it is about?  Do you know any concepts?  Anything?  sounds like you're talking out of your ass at this point, I asked you earlier and you said nothing.  It's an easy question so answer it.
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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #255 on: December 14, 2006, 04:29:40 AM »
HIT in it's purest form:

"You'll get to see Casey's final workout," explained Arthur Jones, the developer of Nautilus equipment, over the phone. "Why don't you drive down tomorrow?"
The date was June 9, 1971. I hadn't seen Casey Viator in several months, so I was anxious to view him working out. Jones had been training Viator on and off for eleven months. Everyone interested in bodybuilding at that time was following the escapades of Jones and Viator through IronMan magazine.
Their big test was the 1971 AAU Mr. America contest, which was to be held in York, Pennsylvania, in three days . . . on June 12th.
"After observing Casey train," he continued in his baritone voice, "you'll be able to judge for yourself whether he'll beat that big red-headed bastard or not." That redheaded "bastard" Jones was referring to was Ken Waller, who'd placed second to Chris Dickerson the year before. Waller was well prepared and purportedly next in line to win the Mr. America in 1971.
You can read the entire exercise-by-exercise report of Casey's workout, which involved doing a single set of 15 different exercises, on pages 18 and 19 of my 2004 book, The New HIT. Without being overly redundant, I want to comment on just two of Viator's exercises — the barbell squat and the triceps extension—just to give you a taste of how brutal a workout can be.
But first, let me describe the workout setting.

A Musty, Muscle-Building Emporium
Prior to completing his 20-acre Nautilus headquarters in Lake Helen, Florida in 1974, Jones' training facility was situated behind the DeLand High School in an old army, semi-circular, Quonset hut. The hut was dimly lit, humid, and musty-smelling. The floors were concrete and there was no reliable heating or cooling in the structure. High-school athletes and a few local fitness buffs used the facility, along with Jones and a few select bodybuilders.
As you entered through the front door, you'd see a Universal Gym machine on the right and a Nautilus Combination Biceps/Triceps Machine on the left. At the far end were prototypes of the Nautilus Pullover, Behind Neck, and Rowing Machines. In the middle were squat racks, several old Olympic barbells, and half a dozen dumbbells.
This was where Jones had challenged Arnold Schwarzenegger and Franco Columbu. After three workouts, Arnold left in a huff, his ego damaged, while Franco thrived and stayed for another week.

The hut's surroundings were ordinary, but when Jones was there with his entourage, the gym became electric. Arthur would bark orders as his assistants prepared the equipment and visitors with eyes as big as 5-pound plates would hang around the door.
Jones definitely filled the place with old-school muscle-building excitement.
Viator, who usually showed up 5 minutes before Jones arrived, told me that his heart rate would double when Jones walked into the gym. "He kept me pissed off most of the time," remembered Casey, "with all his intimidation tactics and demands. No one could get me into the max-training mode the way Arthur could. I hated what he made me do during my workouts . . . but I loved the results."
Larry Gilmore remembers the facility's special "ambience" well: "Due to the workout's intensity and pace, plus the lack of circulating air, we sweated gallons during each workout. And the air in the Quonset hut was usually foul due to guys missing the bucket when they had to puke. But you know what? You could sure get a ball-busting workout, if you had a mind to."
And a ball-busting workout is exactly what I saw Casey Viator do.
At approximately 9 o'clock on the night of June 10, 1971, Viator did 13 repetitions in the squat with a 500-pound barbell on his back. None of his reps were half squats. They were all ass-to-heels, full squats – performed after he pre-exhausted with 750 pounds on the Universal machine leg press for 20 reps, followed by 225 pounds on the Universal machine leg extension for another 20 reps . . . with no rest between the exercises.
That's right, Jones pushed Viator through a double pre-exhaustion cycle: leg press, leg extension, and squat, performed back-to-back-to-back . . . with very heavy weights, in good form, for maximum repetitions . . . which was the ultimate in HIGH INTENSITY.
I'd never seen anything like this leg cycle. Can you imagine squatting with a 500-pound barbell 13 times . . . after pre-exhausting your thighs?
Jones was on the left side of Viator encouraging him – or I should say shouting at him: "Slow down! Hold your head up! Keep going! Don't quit! Think about that big redhead's thighs! Goddamn it, Casey, get three more! Breathe deeply. That's it, that's it! Now . . . one more!"
It worked. Viator exceeded Jones's expectations. His heart rate must have been more than 220 beats per minute for at least 2 minutes. I'd never imagined such intensity was possible – ever.
Early in 2005, I interviewed Casey and he remembered that workout well (it'd be difficult to forget). "I planned to hold back a little on those squats because I knew I had a bunch more stuff to do, but with 500 pounds on my back and the adrenalin flowing, all I could do was think 'Get 10 reps.' I was really surprised when I got 12 and couldn't believe I made 13. I knew then that the workout was going to be a real bitch."
A real bitch it was. From my 45 years of training experience, that three-exercise leg cycle was the most demanding and impressive series that I've ever observed.
Jones talked about it later and concluded that "Paul Anderson (who, at one time, was considered the world's strongest man), in his best condition, could have duplicated Viator's leg cycle, but to do so, he'd had to have an injection of Novocain in each thigh to combat the pain. Furthermore, if Anderson had survived this feat, he'd have probably died afterward."
Viator not only performed that cycle in championship style, but after a two-minute rest and some water, he continued his workout. His next-to-last movement, in his 15-exercise routine, was the triceps extension performed on the Nautilus Combination Biceps/Triceps Machine.

Kick-Ass Triceps
On that night, Jones loaded Casey's triceps with 125 pounds – which was more than I ever saw anyone use on that plate-loading arm machine, particularly at the end of a routine. Maybe 125 pounds doesn't sound like a lot of weight, but this Nautilus Triceps station placed him into a tight, vertical position that made it impossible to cheat. Only his triceps were called into action on this precision exercise.
Casey initiated the repetitions deliberately . . . one by one, from a full stretch to maximum contraction and back. Again, Jones was near his ear, urging him to pause, lower slowly, and continue.
At repetition 8, Viator was spent . . . he couldn't quite make the contracted position, even with Jones's coaxing. Jones calmly looked him in the eyes and said: "That redhead in California is going to get the best of you." That motivated Viator into finishing number 8 and, in fact, making another rep in better form than the one before. The 10th rep, however, was a no-go. Casey couldn't get it started. He'd reached true failure.
In an instant, Jones had two assistants lift Viator out of the sweat-dampened triceps machine and hustle him over to the nearby parallel-dip bars.
I could tell Casey did NOT like the idea of doing dips . . . especially after punishing his triceps on the previous machine.
But then, Casey seemed to get a second wind – no, it was a third or fourth wind – and mounted the parallel bars and started his dips.
He was near the end of the hardest-training session I've ever witnessed and he'd just finished blasting his triceps on a Nautilus machine. Could he really be expected to do more than 3 or 4 dips?
That, in fact, is the very question I asked Arthur as I peered over his shoulder and studied Casey's previous workout on his chart.
"Three or 4 reps, you say," Jones noted. "He'll do 20 . . . or I'll kick his ass up around his shoulders."
Up and down Viator went as if his arms were connected to a couple of well-oiled pistons. The first 10 were slow, smooth, and steady. The second 10 were a bit faster, with Jones questioning his manhood on 18, 19, and 20. The final two (reps 21 and 22) were painfully s-l-o-w, with Viator's upper body drenched in sweat and his triceps, deltoids, and pecs almost vibrating through his skin.
"Ah-ah-ah-ah-ah," bellowed Casey from deep within his lungs as Arthur commanded him to do a controlled lowering on the final rep.

The Final Pose Down
As Viator sunk to one knee, Jones smiled ever so slightly. His work was almost completed.
He let Casey slither over to a jug of cold water and linger for a couple of minutes. In the interim, he noted that Viator's entire workout – legs, back, shoulders, chest, and arms – had taken exactly 27 minutes and 40 seconds. Jones claimed they'd have finished in 25 minutes or less, if the gym hadn't been so damn crowded.
Then Jones signaled to Viator: "Come over here. Take off your shirt and let's see how you look."
First, Casey hit a double-biceps pose. All of the dozen or so people in the room, with the exception of Jones, were dumbfounded. His arms resembled wet footballs with pulsating veins.
Second, he went into a side-chest pose and his deltoids and pecs looked as if they were armor plated and about 18-inches thick. Then, he spun 90 degrees and hit a back pose. There was nothing but mounds of muscle on top of more muscle from his hips to his neck, with striations everywhere.
Even in the dimly lit Quonset hut, Casey's back, shoulders, chest, and arms seemed to glow and be lit with some internal fire. When he contracted intensely, his muscles appeared as if they were about to erupt from his skin.
I'd entered the 1969 and 1970 AAU Mr. America contests, so I'd seen most of the top bodybuilders at that time do their posing routines, but I'd never seen anyone as massive, as cut, and as explosive in a pose . . . as was Casey Viator that night.

The Winner Is . . .
From what I observed that night, I was sure Viator would defeat Ken Waller and win the Mr. America title. Interestingly, two days later, Waller was disqualified from the Amateur Athletic Union for appearing in a non-sanctioned, exercise-related magazine advertisement several months earlier. Thus, the Viator/Waller confrontation never occurred.
But Casey competed against 32 other men on June 12th and easily won the 1971 AAU Mr. America.
I overheard one of the judges say, "Viator was simply overpowering!" Sure, but I thought to myself, "Was it Viator – or Jones – who was overpowering? Or, was it their combined talents working together?"
After the 1971 Mr. America, Viator had plans to enter the NABBA Mr. Universe, which was scheduled for early September in London, England. Unfortunately, Casey had a disagreement with Jones and took a leave of absence from training for several months and he didn't go to the Mr. Universe event.
Furthermore, after that June 10, 1971, supervised workout, Jones never again trained Viator seriously. No, I take that back. He did train Viator 14 times in May of 1973 during the Colorado Experiment. But that was a part of a research project and not for a bodybuilding championship.
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davie

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #256 on: December 14, 2006, 05:13:07 AM »
why would hit training be far more intelligent? why would they have the same growth in 1/2 hour?
and i'd say being to the gym for hours would be very tough, hell i'm glad i don't follow a high reps training that's tough for me, doing an endless number of reps.
low reps are easy on the mind.

You kind of answered ur own question, it si more intelliegent b/c u can gtet more growth in 1/2 the time!!

I have busted my ass at volume and have been stuck on weights for weeks and weeks. Now doing  HIT style approach (i dont pre-exhaust except for shoulders and legs) i am finding my weights go up alot more regularly, and so far some weights are going up eery week!!

I get in, bust my ass and get out so i can start recovering. Someone mentioned before that long workouts take alot out of energy stores, and the body in general - that means alot of recovery and food u consume has to 1st of all repare those energy stores etc before it gets on to the job of really rebuilding muscles and helping them grow.

With less tiem spent working out, and yes the energy stores are depleted from very hard work, but not from making the whole body tired from long workouts, then the food and rest u have right after training can get to work on repairing and building muscle.

davie
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natural al

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #257 on: December 14, 2006, 05:42:52 AM »
You kind of answered ur own question, it si more intelliegent b/c u can gtet more growth in 1/2 the time!!

I have busted my ass at volume and have been stuck on weights for weeks and weeks. Now doing  HIT style approach (i dont pre-exhaust except for shoulders and legs) i am finding my weights go up alot more regularly, and so far some weights are going up eery week!!

I get in, bust my ass and get out so i can start recovering. Someone mentioned before that long workouts take alot out of energy stores, and the body in general - that means alot of recovery and food u consume has to 1st of all repare those energy stores etc before it gets on to the job of really rebuilding muscles and helping them grow.

With less tiem spent working out, and yes the energy stores are depleted from very hard work, but not from making the whole body tired from long workouts, then the food and rest u have right after training can get to work on repairing and building muscle.

davie

good post.
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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #258 on: December 14, 2006, 05:57:58 AM »
I stopped believing that nonsense when he claimed Paul Anderson couldn't have done the leg workout ::)
Next we'll be hearing that Mariusz couldn't do one Natrual Als' leg workouts ::)


natural al

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #259 on: December 14, 2006, 06:04:48 AM »
I stopped believing that nonsense when he claimed Paul Anderson couldn't have done the leg workout ::)
Next we'll be hearing that Mariusz couldn't do one Natrual Als' leg workouts ::)



yeah, paul anderson had such good cardio, he'd have no problem with that type of workout ;D ;D

I didn't write the article, don't dog me, I just thought it was a fun read.
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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #260 on: December 14, 2006, 06:34:34 AM »
lol.

That guy groaning in the Mentzer training tape like he's in a porno movie is hilarious. Imagine if some clown was doing that in the gym. That's so contrived.

Obviously, Ah-nold had the superior physique. So Ah-nold had the best technique.

Really, all you need to do is work the muscle until it's pumped and then stop. That's how Vince Gironda trained, and he's natural.
People with closed minds and limited perspectives are boring. They don't have the intelligence to make for an interesting debate, always take the low road with dumb unfunny posts that crack them up but that no one else cares about. Trying to communicate with trolls (and inform, since they lack sophistication) who think they know better is a waste of time.

The only reason to take the time to list some advantages to any program other than volume is for others reading, not the mental midgets on here posting stupid replies. The ones who understand that volume works but that there may be more effective & efficient means to do same, and who like the challenge of something inherently more athletic. Comprehending these simple concepts eems to be very very difficult for some, and necessitates speaking to them like children.

I especially love the kindergarden-level logic about Schwarzenegger having the best physique therefore knowing the most, it's priceless and child-like. The nonsense about Gironda's training is also rich.

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #261 on: December 14, 2006, 06:49:00 AM »
You guys are never going to agree. Just accept that some things work for some people and not for others. I've tried both and my body responds to something in the middle. You may be different. But continue arguing - it's funny.
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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #262 on: December 14, 2006, 06:52:44 AM »
You guys are never going to agree. Just accept that some things work for some people and not for others. I've tried both and my body responds to something in the middle. You may be different. But continue arguing - it's funny.

I agree tho i dont think its meant to be an argument. I think the HIT followers on here (or actually just those who dont have tunnel vision with regards to training) do agree that volume of all kinds can work, but that there are other forms of training that also work, or might b better.
The volume lovers here think volume works and thats it.

davie
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natural al

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #263 on: December 14, 2006, 06:53:44 AM »
You guys are never going to agree. Just accept that some things work for some people and not for others. I've tried both and my body responds to something in the middle. You may be different. But continue arguing - it's funny.

I wasn't arguing with anyone....just having a discussion...
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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #264 on: December 14, 2006, 06:57:05 AM »
You guys are never going to agree. Just accept that some things work for some people and not for others. I've tried both and my body responds to something in the middle. You may be different. But continue arguing - it's funny.

Unintentionally you're part of the comedy. There's no argument except in your mind. Also wrong to assume that there has to be some kind of agreement to make this worthwhile.

Here's some classic, uninspiring volume training. No one's saying he doesn't look good but i wonder what that physique would look like on someone with balls, willing to push the envelope:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=112780.0


RJB

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #265 on: December 14, 2006, 07:10:18 AM »
Unintentionally you're part of the comedy. There's no argument except in your mind. Also wrong to assume that there has to be some kind of agreement to make this worthwhile.

Here's some classic, uninspiring volume training. No one's saying he doesn't look good but i wonder what that physique would look like on someone willing to push the envelope:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=112780.0



Oh no, don't misunderstand me, this IS what makes this board worthwhile.
Ronnie looked like doodoo

pumpster

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #266 on: December 14, 2006, 07:11:11 AM »
 ;D

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #267 on: December 14, 2006, 07:20:47 AM »
You kind of answered ur own question, it si more intelliegent b/c u can gtet more growth in 1/2 the time!!

I have busted my ass at volume and have been stuck on weights for weeks and weeks. Now doing  HIT style approach (i dont pre-exhaust except for shoulders and legs) i am finding my weights go up alot more regularly, and so far some weights are going up eery week!!

I get in, bust my ass and get out so i can start recovering. Someone mentioned before that long workouts take alot out of energy stores, and the body in general - that means alot of recovery and food u consume has to 1st of all repare those energy stores etc before it gets on to the job of really rebuilding muscles and helping them grow.

With less tiem spent working out, and yes the energy stores are depleted from very hard work, but not from making the whole body tired from long workouts, then the food and rest u have right after training can get to work on repairing and building muscle.

davie

so what there can be a number of reasons you were stuck on the same weights.
if youre gonna go to failure all the time you need a lot of rest and because you're resting a lot you dont hit the gym as often as you could.

compare a volume training approach where you work your whole body twice or maybe even three times in a week with just once every week or every 10 days.
then your hit approach much produce 2-3 times the result to compare.
Z

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #268 on: December 14, 2006, 07:22:54 AM »
People with closed minds and limited perspectives are boring. They don't have the intelligence to make for an interesting debate, always take the low road with dumb unfunny posts that crack them up but that no one else cares about. Trying to communicate with trolls (and inform, since they lack sophistication) who think they know better is a waste of time.

The only reason to take the time to list some advantages to any program other than volume is for others reading, not the mental midgets on here posting stupid replies. The ones who understand that volume works but that there may be more effective & efficient means to do same, and who like the challenge of something inherently more athletic. Comprehending these simple concepts eems to be very very difficult for some, and necessitates speaking to them like children.

I especially love the kindergarden-level logic about Schwarzenegger having the best physique therefore knowing the most, it's priceless and child-like. The nonsense about Gironda's training is also rich.

yeah there's more effective and efficent means to train - even more volume, even less intensity.
Z

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #269 on: December 14, 2006, 07:25:57 AM »
Quote
yeah there's more effective and efficent means to train - even more volume, even less intensity
Brilliant.

Bluto, in a recent pic:

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #270 on: December 14, 2006, 07:30:28 AM »
There's no correlation between high intensity, going to failure each set etc and gaining muscle mass.
There IS however a correlation between high intensity, going to failure each set etc and injury, frying the CNS which means you would be FORCED to train less often and because of this grow slower.
As well as feeding your ego so you can be a MACHO MACHO MAN and wear "shut up and squat!!!" t-shirts at the gym.

hope this helps.
Z

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #271 on: December 14, 2006, 07:36:19 AM »
There's no correlation between high intensity, going to failure each set etc and gaining muscle mass.
There IS however a correlation between high intensity, going to failure each set etc and injury, frying the CNS which means you would be FORCED to train less often and because of this grow slower.
As well as feeding your ego so you can be a MACHO MACHO MAN and wear "shut up and squat!!!" t-shirts at the gym.

hope this helps.

The words of a sage. ::) Notice he talks in absolutes, as if all of this is fact.

That whole theory burning out the CNS is unproven, but is a convenient excuse for taking it easy. The length of time needed for recovery is highly debatable. 2-3 days time is usually more than enough to many, in fact there's just as much evidence that resting longer than that allows the muscles to regress, from disuse.

Bluto

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #272 on: December 14, 2006, 07:39:52 AM »
The words of a sage. ::)

That whole theory burning out the CNS is unproven, but is a convenient excuse for taking it easy. The length of time needed for recovery is highly debatable. 2-3 days time is usually more than enough, in fact there's just as much evidence that resting longer than that allows the muscles to regress from disuse.

2-3 days is nothing. and if there's ONE thing we CAN monitor - it's the csn. that's the reason mentzer recommended up to 14 days between muscle groups, because his whole approach to intensity fried the cns.
only problem is this:

you gonna work one muscle group every 2 weeks, you not gonna do a lot of work in a year. and you will grow reaaaaaal slow.

so if you wanna train hard at the gym so you can be all macho and dance around to village people's macho man record and grow in 3 years what others grow in 1 year then by all means stick to this kind of training.
Z

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #273 on: December 14, 2006, 07:41:01 AM »
2-3 days is nothing. and if there's ONE thing we CAN monitor - it's the csn. that's the reason mentzer recommended up to 14 days between muscle groups, because his whole approach to intensity fried the cns.
only problem is this:

you gonna work one muscle group every 2 weeks, you not gonna do a lot of work in a year. and you will grow reaaaaaal slow.

so if you wanna train hard at the gym so you can be all macho and dance around to village people's macho man record and grow in 3 years what others grow in 1 year then by all means stick to this kind of training.


Thank god he has it all figured out for the rest of us.

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Re: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!
« Reply #274 on: December 14, 2006, 07:41:49 AM »
2-3 days is nothing. and if there's ONE thing we CAN monitor - it's the csn. that's the reason mentzer recommended up to 14 days between muscle groups, because his whole approach to intensity fried the cns.
only problem is this:

you gonna work one muscle group every 2 weeks, you not gonna do a lot of work in a year. and you will grow reaaaaaal slow.

so if you wanna train hard at the gym so you can be all macho and dance around to village people's macho man record and grow in 3 years what others grow in 1 year then by all means stick to this kind of training.


metzer said that 14 days rest stuff at the end when he was kinda nuts, I wouldn't look to much into what he was preaching the last few years he was alive.
nasser=piece of shit