a wider back???

[Lugar]

so if you decdied to deload and hold off on deads for a week, what would be a solid mass producing routine?

tbar
dbell row/str8 bar
lat pull wide
pullovers?

3x8?

[slaveboy1980]

that will work..you doing back once a week?

[Lugar]

no twice, but I'm in pct and really dont want to overtrain.....do you have a solid routine?  Maybe I should hit em last?

[slaveboy1980]

na that back routine looks solid, it doesnt have to be complicated, just make sure you dont lower your weights just because you expect to get weaker due to PCT. you can maybe split that workout in two and do one half on one day and the other half on another but it depends on if you feel fresh or not. backing off from the deads is a good idea if you been doing em heavy for many weeks straight.

[Lugar]

tbar- 1 warm - 3 x8
dbell row - 4x6
lat pull wide - 3x8
pullovers? 3x10-12
rope seated rows to face - 3x10

[pumpster]

so if you decdied to deload and hold off on deads for a week, what would be a solid mass producing routine?

tbar
dbell row/str8 bar
lat pull wide
pullovers?

3x8?

That's about right, can be done 2-3 times a week. 3 x 8 sounds good. Can remove one of the two row exercises if desired, it's not necessary to do 2 versions of any similar movement each workout unless it's perceived to make a difference. Just about right as long as the intensity is high on each set.

[Lugar]

tbar- 1 warm - 3 x8
dbell row - 4x6
lat pull wide - 3x8
pullovers? 3x10-12
rope seated rows to face - 3x10


ill give this a go tonight.......then 6 sets bis and done

[pumpster]

tbar- 1 warm - 3 x8
dbell row - 4x6
lat pull wide - 3x8
pullovers? 3x10-12
rope seated rows to face - 3x10


ill give this a go tonight.......then 6 sets bis and done

Now the routine's even further skewed towards rows (10/16 sets), for no perceptible reason..plus the volume's drifted onto the high side, compromising intensity. Which is fine if volume training's the goal, but is a departure from the original plan, that was already solid.

[Lugar]

lets try..........

tbar- 1 warm - 3 x6-8
dbell row - 3x6-8
lat pull wide - 3x8
pullovers 3x10-12
rope seated rows to face - 1x10


ill give this a go tonight.......then 6 sets bis and done

[mitchyboy]

HMMMM???   Pct and you don't know how to build your back. I don't have anything against roids, (i plan on doing my first cycle soon) but you really should know how to workout.

[Charlys69]

any kind of rowing movements (bent over, dumbell-row, T-Bar, low cable-row) & Chin-ups. and heavy close grip pulldowns.....
There are so many efficient exercises for build a wider and bigger and better back....but itīs simply only hard work & and it takes time, long time...
to be honest.
(i`m close to 44 now and training "just for myself" for nearly 26 years now...)

2 days ago 3rd and last back exercise (260 lbs + 145 dumbell)

[thewickedtruth]

it always makes me laugh when guys chime in with the whole deadlifts crap for building width, how on earth are deads going to build width? like Pumpster said they're unnecesary for width, do chins or pulldowns and pullovers, deads will build some thickness in the muscles around the spine and some trap thickness but not much width.

QFT. If you want width, go wider in your pulling exercises to the point you can still feel your lats working. Genetics plays a big role in everything. People just fail to admit it most of the time. Stick with exercises you KNOW work your back well and stay away from bullshit exercises and information. I used to have width problems until I stopped lifting like a sissy and put some effort into it. Your back will grow when your balls do.

[king]

any kind of rowing movements (bent over, dumbell-row, T-Bar, low cable-row) & Chin-ups. and heavy close grip pulldowns.....
There are so many efficient exercises for build a wider and bigger and better back....but itīs simply only hard work & and it takes time, long time...
to be honest.
(i`m close to 44 now and training "just for myself" for nearly 26 years now...)

2 days ago 3rd and last back exercise (260 lbs + 145 dumbell)

very wide

[thewickedtruth]

any kind of rowing movements (bent over, dumbell-row, T-Bar, low cable-row) & Chin-ups. and heavy close grip pulldowns.....
There are so many efficient exercises for build a wider and bigger and better back....but itīs simply only hard work & and it takes time, long time...
to be honest.
(i`m close to 44 now and training "just for myself" for nearly 26 years now...)

2 days ago 3rd and last back exercise (260 lbs + 145 dumbell)

THAT is awesome work and dedication.    I'd like to see the currect workout of this guy though. If he's asking about a wider back and using 60lb dumbbells for dumbbell rows or can't perform a bent over barbell row, it's going to take some work.

[leonp1981]

Good back workout:

Chins behind neck / Lat pulldown behind neck - 1 x WU, 3 x 12/10/8
Bentover row - 1 x WU, 3 x 12/10/8
Seated close grip row - 3 x 8
Pullovers - 3 x 10
Deadlifts - 3 x 12

I prefer chins behind the neck to isolate the outer lats more, I don't usually do one-arm dumbell rows cos I tend to feel them in my rear delts, and I always do deadlifts cos nothing gets the traps sore like heavy deads.  I know some people reckon they're only good for injuries, but that can be said for dozens of exercises.  Do them with good form and don't let your ego load the bar.

[Charlys69]

i stop any "behind the neck" exercises 5-6 Years ago, because in the long run they damage almost every
intense training-guys rotator cuff.

when people progress in strength, the risk of injuring the rotator cuff will increase. So be carefull with that exercises (good warm up, good form, maybe not going as deep as it could go...stop 1-2 inch before that point)
 

[pumpster]

QFT. If you want width, go wider in your pulling exercises to the point you can still feel your lats working. Genetics plays a big role in everything. People just fail to admit it most of the time. Stick with exercises you KNOW work your back well and stay away from bullshit exercises and information. I used to have width problems until I stopped lifting like a sissy and put some effort into it. Your back will grow when your balls do.

Agree with almost everything, except the grip width. It's not necessarily true that a wide grip's needed or even as good as other alternatives such as medium or close grip V-bar on either chins, pulldowns or rows. Arthur Jones mentioned for example, that medium-grip pulldowns were as good or better than wide-grips, in his opinion. Try each, determine where it's hitting the muscles and which is most effective.

Behind the neck pulldowns have fallen out of favor but are still worth doing because they hit the lats differently. Just keep the reps moderate, don't go too heavy plus don't do the bottom part of the ROM. Same thing applies to behind the neck presses.

[thewickedtruth]

You're right bud. Use the grip that fits YOU best. The worst thing people can do in the gym is do what everyone else is doing! we're not all the same..adjust the machines and exercises to you. Two of the biggest guys in the gym usually, me included, do our t-bar rows standing almost straight up but that angle hits my back perfectly without much lowerback stress or having to worry about form issues. Our backs are both equally wide. Adjust it to yourself. ALSO, don't go doing the same kind of exercise all the time. Do different variations and grips EACH back training session. This insures you hit all of the muscle groups of the back. Yes, I said muscle groups. Your back isn't just one big slab of meat. It's lots of accessory muscles and groups that make up one big group. the body builder with the last name of stubbs...not sure what his first name is, joe or something, has the best back I've ever seen and his back training advice is spot on! This shouldn't be applied to just your back but every muscle group in general.

[pumpster]

Yes...experiment, experiment, experiment as widely as possible with every possible option, then keeps what works. Don't worry about what books or mags say, just pay attention to how it affects you...

[king]

good advice pumpster

[Herc]

I usually do 3 sets of weighted pullups doing between 8 and 12 reps.  Every once in a while I will do a rep out set of 30 or so to shock the muscles.  Then dumbell rows for 3 sets.  I have found it very helpfull to grow my back to use straps when holding the dumbells this way I can go much heavier and still grip the wieght.  I think they would be worth buying if you dont already have some.  Ill then alternate some other exerseze for 3 more sets. 

[akers1021]

Squadfather...

deads DO build width, you do understand that they build width from the side angles right?  Thats what some people mean by width, the side chest and side tri poses will look "wider" because deads bring out the erectors giving you the illusion of having "width".  from the rear shots you will look like your back is Deep.   Some people get this confused.

[jpm101]

DL's will build wide lat's if you have the potential and upper body structure (genetics) for width. Check out some of the PL'ers for thick and very wide backs. And DL'ing is their prime back movement.

Medium to close grip pull exercises tend to hit the major mass of the lat's/back more so than a wide to extra wide grip. Though with that wide grip, you will get a different angle on the stretch. Which can have an influence of lat growth. Another related  example would be the SLDL, which does not involve any director full muscle contraction of the ham's.  But does allow a good ham stretch and growth. Wide grip stretching and pulls (for example) may be good for some.  BB/DB pullovers, though mostly narrow/medium gripped, give a combination of a full stretch and full muscle contraction. One of the reasons it's can be a major lat exercise.  If a pullover machine is in your gym (preferred where the elbows are on pad's, leading the exercise) than you might consider that as a must do movement for the lat's.

Any complete back/lats workout should include a overhead pull (like chins, lat pulldowns, etc). A out front of the body pull to the chest/abs (BB rows, sitting cable pull, etc). And a upwards pulling motion (like up-right rows, cleans, Hi-Pulls, shrugs, etc). In the DL ,the upper body (including grip) is keeping the BB stable and in line, where the actually lifting is done by the legs & hips/lower back. Which may suggest the important of semi static holds for development and strength in anyone's baclk program.

My current back programs, as of yesterday:

1. Chins..weighted, drop set..medium hammer grip
    7 reps..drop weight
    5 reps..drop weight
    4 reps..drop weight
    3 reps..drop weight
    6 reps final set with just bwt.
    Just one set of this drop set style

2. DB row..alternate...Elbows wide and out
    hits the rear delts very well also ...one set of 7-12 reps
   
3.  Hi-Pull... DB
     two sets..first set full range, second set half way up...7-12 reps
     
4.  BB shrug on rack..12-20 reps..one set

5. SLDL....no deeper than the 45's allow..12-20 reps...one set

6. Pullover..DB,bent arm...10-18 reps..1 or 2 sets

Good Luck.

 



 

[thewickedtruth]

DL's will build wide lat's if you have the potential and upper body structure (genetics) for width. Check out some of the PL'ers for thick and very wide backs. And DL'ing is their prime back movement.

Medium to close grip pull exercises tend to hit the major mass of the lat's/back more so than a wide to extra wide grip. Though with that wide grip, you will get a different angle on the stretch. Which can have an influence of lat growth. Another related  example would be the SLDL, which does not involve any director full muscle contraction of the ham's.  But does allow a good ham stretch and growth. Wide grip stretching and pulls (for example) may be good for some.  BB/DB pullovers, though mostly narrow/medium gripped, give a combination of a full stretch and full muscle contraction. One of the reasons it's can be a major lat exercise.  If a pullover machine is in your gym (preferred where the elbows are on pad's, leading the exercise) than you might consider that as a must do movement for the lat's.

Any complete back/lats workout should include a overhead pull (like chins, lat pulldowns, etc). A out front of the body pull to the chest/abs (BB rows, sitting cable pull, etc). And a upwards pulling motion (like up-right rows, cleans, Hi-Pulls, shrugs, etc). In the DL ,the upper body (including grip) is keeping the BB stable and in line, where the actually lifting is done by the legs & hips/lower back. Which may suggest the important of semi static holds for development and strength in anyone's baclk program.

My current back programs, as of yesterday:

1. Chins..weighted, drop set..medium hammer grip
    7 reps..drop weight
    5 reps..drop weight
    4 reps..drop weight
    3 reps..drop weight
    6 reps final set with just bwt.
    Just one set of this drop set style

2. DB row..alternate...Elbows wide and out
    hits the rear delts very well also ...one set of 7-12 reps
   
3.  Hi-Pull... DB
     two sets..first set full range, second set half way up...7-12 reps
     
4.  BB shrug on rack..12-20 reps..one set

5. SLDL....no deeper than the 45's allow..12-20 reps...one set

6. Pullover..DB,bent arm...10-18 reps..1 or 2 sets

Good Luck.

 

Great program writeup thought I don't feel like there's enough "power" movements in that routine. seems almost devoid of something. Id' replace the shrugs with bent over barbell rows since the traps would get hit in deads anyway and throughout most of your typical back movements.



 

[jpm101]

TWT: Do not be mislead by the higher rep's or only, at best , one or two sets a exercise. SLDL's for example. I'll take a weight that I normally knock out 10 reps or so, usually stopping at least one rep before failure. But with this style of workout, I try for 18-20 reps with the same weight when doing the 10 reps. Taking extra deep breaths between reps and gearing my self for the long haul of reaching higher reps. When I do reach a final 20th rep I'm pretty well fried. This will be the only time I will go to a point of complete failure, on this type of training.This can be just as much a mental discipline effort as it is a physical one. No need to do another set after that one. This type of workout can put a demand on the body to adapt to become stronger and larger in muscle mass. It will also greatly improvement the stamina (endurance+strength). On this short program I treat the shrugs and pullovers in the same matter.

Those drop set chins can also be very demanding and are considered power movements. DB rows and hi-pulls fall into the same class when mental focus, and a  respectable amount of weight, is attempted. To my way of thinking this would be called training with serious intent. Good Luck.