Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?

[myseone]

Yeah we can end legs with your favorite machine

Oh man you gotta love those guys that use the smith machine! haha funniest thing! I was training with another guy when I was 16 years old and he would get me to do 225 pound closegrip benches on the smith. Thing is I could probably barely get that with 135 pounds free weight!

I am in montreal my little friend. If I ever pass by there I will make sure to pm me and own you in the gym.

[myseone]

A lot of energy went into that thread about a year ago, I'm not going there again.

Your the winner Squad

hahahaha, exactly, the funny thing is that he never challenges it when i call him on his claims, he's either full of shit or he's way stronger than Ronnie Coleman.

[The Squadfather]

Yeah we can end legs with your favorite machine

i'm calling you a liar "myesone", what do you say to that?

[alexxx]

Yeah we can end legs with your favorite machine

haha your insecurities are showing. I own you on legs.

[myseone]

Thats okay, I can live with that.

i'm calling you a liar "myesone", what do you say to that?

[myseone]

You have good quad shape, but I would destroy you in leg training.

haha your insecurities are showing. I own you on legs.

[alexxx]

You have good quad shape, but I would destroy you in leg training.

I gotta admit I have never tried 900 pound machine squats but if its anything like the leg press then consider yourself owned.

[myseone]

Nothing like it, leg presses are far easier by comparison, the compressive forces of having that much weight on your back changes the equation.

I gotta admit I have never tried 900 pound machine squats but if its anything like the leg press then consider yourself owned.

[alexxx]

Answer me this myseone.. when you gained the most size was it throught hit or volume?

[myseone]

HIT definitely. I can't say I ever used HVT for very long.

Answer me this myseone.. when you gained the most size was it throught hit or volume?

[alexxx]

HIT definitely. I can't say I ever used HVT for very long.

With hit training your muscles seem one dimensional. With volume you can give that dramatic effect. Example: Arnold vs Franco

Franco's muscles are always there there is no big surprise when he flexes.

Arnold on the other hand is has a showman's body. His muscles would exploded and freak out the crowd. His arms went from 19" unflexed to 22 inches flexed!

I think that is the main difference between hit and volume.

[myseone]

I have to clarify that I wasn't saying that HVT doesn't work, it definitely works hence the physiques built by many trainees on the system. I was stating that there are many trainees that use HIT techniques with great success.

I think the bottom line is progressive resistance.

HIT definitely. I can't say I ever used HVT for very long.

[getfast81]

High Intensity is the way to go. 4 years in and workouts dont get any easier.  Dugdale is another HIT trainer.

[myseone]

I don't agree fully,
When Sergio, Casey and Mentzer were using these techniques their muscles looked totally 3D.

I think gentically some peoples muscles come alive when posed, others not much, I'm not sure if training has much to do with that.

I will say that higher volume training will increase glycogen stores when married with higher carbs, hence giving the muscle a fuller look. For building hard granite muscle (aka. Yates and Casey [include drugs and genetics) then to failure and beyond training with heavy weight is neccessary.

With hit training your muscles seem one dimensional. With volume you can give that dramatic effect. Example: Arnold vs Franco

Franco's muscles are always there there is no big surprise when he flexes.

Arnold on the other hand is has a showman's body. His muscles would exploded and freak out the crowd. His arms went from 19" unflexed to 22 inches flexed!

I think that is the main difference between hit and volume.

[myseone]

I forgot about Dugdale, another great example. The stuff works.

Even though all these bodybuilders juice, I think that HIT type training is more suited for drug free trainees, because of the recovery factor. I think people freak out when they read Mentzers protocol due to the huge amounts of rest included. mentzers method is only one interpretation of HIT training, just like in the HVT camp Cutler trains differently, than Wheeler or Coleman.

High Intensity is the way to go. 4 years in and workouts dont get any easier.  Dugdale is another HIT trainer.

[alexxx]

I don't agree fully,
When Sergio, Casey and Mentzer were using these techniques their muscles looked totally 3D.

I think gentically some peoples muscles come alive when posed, others not much, I'm not sure if training has much to do with that.

I will say that higher volume training will increase glycogen stores when married with higher carbs, hence giving the muscle a fuller look. For building hard granite muscle (aka. Yates and Casey [include drugs and genetics) then to failure and beyond training with heavy weight is neccessary.

Sergio used the techniques for a short period of time. Casey never improved after turning to hit. Mentzer has some good arms but they are always there if he flexes them they are the same size. Nothing surprising happens.

[getfast81]

I forgot about Dugdale, another great example. The stuff works.

Even though all these bodybuilders juice, I think that HIT type training is more suited for drug free trainees, because of the recovery factor. I think people freak out when they read Mentzers protocol due to the huge amounts of rest included. mentzers method is only one interpretation of HIT training, just like in the HVT camp Cutler trains differently, than Wheeler or Coleman.

Everyone is truly different as trainers.  Yates was a lot different than Mentzer.  Dugdale is a whole world different than Yates b/c he supersets and so on.  Labradas style of HIT is what I lean more towards.  8-10 reps, 2-3 all out sets with forced reps, rest pause, beyond failure, etc.  Thats the great thing about training theories. They all work.  Doggcrapp, HIT, HVT.  Everyone can benefit from trying them all or incorporating them into their training every so often. (When gains start to disappear)

[myseone]

When Sergio used the technique he grew, after he left Nautillus as an employee he trained HVT style. The most impressive picture that I have seen of Sergio was when he was employed at Nautillus (the earlier pics are an example).

Casey made his best gains using HIT training, after his employ at Nautillus he went to HVT and he got smaller.

Mentzers arms, genetics again, still impressive though.

I don't use drugs, have made good gains using HIT type techniques, and don't consider my muscles 2D.

Sergio used the techniques for a short period of time. Casey never improved after turning to hit. Mentzer has some good arms but they are always there if he flexes them they are the same size. Nothing surprising happens.

[myseone]

I agree. I would like to see the results if all bodybuilders were drug free (ain't gonna happen any time soon probably), if specific styles work better in most of the cases.

Everyone is truly different as trainers.  Yates was a lot different than Mentzer.  Dugdale is a whole world different than Yates b/c he supersets and so on.  Labradas style of HIT is what I lean more towards.  8-10 reps, 2-3 all out sets with forced reps, rest pause, beyond failure, etc.  Thats the great thing about training theories. They all work.  Doggcrapp, HIT, HVT.  Everyone can benefit from trying them all or incorporating them into their training every so often. (When gains start to disappear)

[alexxx]

How long have you been doing HIT/HVT and what where your results?

[MisterMagoo]

there are no other athletes on the planet who think that training for an hour a day five days a week is too much. olympic lifters outlift your favorite bodybuilders and they'll train 2-3 hours a day every day. powerlifters have marathon sessions with nonstop heavy lifting.

[Miss Demeanor]

there are no other athletes on the planet who think that training for an hour a day five days a week is too much. olympic lifters outlift your favorite bodybuilders and they'll train 2-3 hours a day every day. powerlifters have marathon sessions with nonstop heavy lifting.

Curiously, however, those Olympic lifters don't have the muscle BBers do.  For every O lifter you could show me with great trap development, erectors or quads, I could show you many more that look like average, fairly thin men.  Far more often than not, BBers will be much more muscular than O lifters of similar height and weight.  Slowly getting ever-more proficient at a handful of lifts and training for hypertrophy would seem counterindicated.  When the pursuit's size, overtraining is a very real concern.

And it's quite a stretch to say all, or even most, powerlifters all employ "marathon" sessions.  Some do.  Many don't. 

[Sir William Idol]

Curiously, however, those Olympic lifters don't have the muscle BBers do.  For every O lifter you could show me with great trap development, erectors or quads, I could show you many more that look like average, fairly thin men.  Far more often than not, BBers will be much more muscular than O lifters of similar height and weight.  Slowly getting ever-more proficient at a handful of lifts and training for hypertrophy would seem counterindicated.  When the pursuit's size, overtraining is a very real concern.

And it's quite a stretch to say all, or even most, powerlifters all employ "marathon" sessions.  Some do.  Many don't. 

think that has anything to do with the fact olympic lifters are rigorously tested for compounds ranging from steroids down to ingredients found in cold medicines?  and bodybuilders are constantly on mega doses of every drug known to man?

[Sir William Idol]

[MisterMagoo]

Curiously, however, those Olympic lifters don't have the muscle BBers do.  For every O lifter you could show me with great trap development, erectors or quads, I could show you many more that look like average, fairly thin men.  Far more often than not, BBers will be much more muscular than O lifters of similar height and weight.  Slowly getting ever-more proficient at a handful of lifts and training for hypertrophy would seem counterindicated.  When the pursuit's size, overtraining is a very real concern.

And it's quite a stretch to say all, or even most, powerlifters all employ "marathon" sessions.  Some do.  Many don't. 

that's probably because the oly lifters are training for a sport, and as said above they are tested year round. my point is that they aren't overtraining despite lifting for hours a day with much heavier weights than bb'ers use. if you listen to the HIT acolytes if you workout for more than 45 minutes and are stupid enough to lift two days in a row you'll fall apart.