Author Topic: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?  (Read 64536 times)

pumpster

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #225 on: December 25, 2006, 12:45:10 PM »
i agree. positive failure is my thing. if i miss a lift, that's when the set ends. trying to grind out partials, forced reps, or drop setting had always destroyed me. i can do heavy singles and triples all week long, but it's the whole "absolute failure" thing that's hurt me.
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Van_Bilderass

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #226 on: December 25, 2006, 12:47:26 PM »
oh brother, another internet strength god. ::)
It's true though in my case.  ;D If I could trust you I'd even send pics.

The Squadfather

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #227 on: December 25, 2006, 12:48:16 PM »
It's true though in my case.  ;D If I could trust you I'd even send pics.
just post them in this thread, block out your face if you need to.

MisterMagoo

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #228 on: December 25, 2006, 12:49:21 PM »
seconded. what could we do that's so terrible with a picture with the face blocked out?

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #229 on: December 25, 2006, 01:00:50 PM »
seconded. what could we do that's so terrible with a picture with the face blocked out?
Well I had this, which is dark enough to conceal my face. Doing some deficit deads with roughly 600, september 21. The starting point when I was doing 600 x 5 off the floor.
http://i16.tinypic.com/47aoc3n.jpg

MisterMagoo

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #230 on: December 25, 2006, 01:20:42 PM »
what are those plates? the inner four are all the same and the last one on the end is a 45. so unless those are all goofy weights it isn't 600. still, definitely awesome work pulling 5 plates with that kind of a deficit.

Fury

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #231 on: December 25, 2006, 01:21:46 PM »
Well I had this, which is dark enough to conceal my face. Doing some deficit deads with roughly 600, september 21. The starting point when I was doing 600 x 5 off the floor.
http://i16.tinypic.com/47aoc3n.jpg

That girl on the treadmill is eye fucking you.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #232 on: December 25, 2006, 01:33:17 PM »
what are those plates? the inner four are all the same and the last one on the end is a 45. so unless those are all goofy weights it isn't 600. still, definitely awesome work pulling 5 plates with that kind of a deficit.
They are all 25kg plates (red=25kg, standard color for 25kg, you can see the 25kg marking if you look closely), the outer ones are of a different make. Some no name brand, this is not a hardcore gym so we don't have Eleiko plates etc. So it's 270kg total.

The Squadfather

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #233 on: December 25, 2006, 01:37:01 PM »
They are all 25kg plates (red=25kg, standard color for 25kg, you can see the 25kg marking if you look closely), the outer ones are of a different make. Some no name brand, this is not a hardcore gym so we don't have Eleiko plates etc. So it's 270kg total.
270kg.=595lbs.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #234 on: December 25, 2006, 01:40:39 PM »
270kg.=595lbs.
Yes, right. This is a deficit dead though standing on a thick 50kg + 25kg plate, a bit harder than floor pulls.  :D

Bluto

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #235 on: December 25, 2006, 02:50:58 PM »
we have the same 25kg weights at my gym. theyre the real thing.
Z

Bluto

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #236 on: December 25, 2006, 02:52:11 PM »
this is a good thread. pumpster getting attacked from all angles. and all he can come up with is that he trains with a bowflex  ;D

and then we have squadfather using up his 'show a picture'-card and getting owned.

good stuff.
Z

pumpster

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #237 on: December 25, 2006, 03:31:49 PM »
this is a good thread. pumpster getting attacked from all angles. and all he can come up with is that he trains with a bowflex  ;D

and then we have squadfather using up his 'show a picture'-card and getting owned.

good stuff.
Hard to believe that a troll with no life would post more nothingness.

Bluto celebrating xmas earlier today, after another rough "no-going-to-failure" workout:

Bluto

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #238 on: December 25, 2006, 03:44:35 PM »
you know i bet that guy on in the photo has more muscle than you  :D
Z

haider

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #239 on: December 25, 2006, 03:45:58 PM »
Very nice pull bilderass!

Agreed completely abt stopping short of failure also. If increasing the amt of weight lifted is the biggest factor in the long run(or the only thing that matters in a powerlifters case), then I don't see how going after that last rep affects anything except drain out the CNS more. And in your case the opposing argument fails simply because u were able to progress very well on your deadlift without training to failure. IMO, sparing yourself of failure played a part in your incredible progress.
follow the arrows

SteelePegasus

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #240 on: December 25, 2006, 04:23:03 PM »
oh brother, another internet strength god. ::)

lol, aren't we all?
Here comes the money shot

myseone

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #241 on: December 25, 2006, 04:41:37 PM »
Whats up Figgs, pandoras box opened with this thread huh. What part of Queens do you live?




Myseone, I live in Queens, NY. Shall I challenge you to a leg workout?  ;D

Vince B

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #242 on: December 25, 2006, 04:44:34 PM »
I think Pumpster is claiming that unless the muscles have to do something extraordinary then they won't grow. I remember reading what Arthur Jones wrote in the early 1970s. He discussed which rep actually made a difference. It seemed to make sense that the rep you failed on was the one that benefitted you the most. However, what if you stopped on the rep just before the failed rep? Would that be just as good? I can tell most of the time when I can't do another rep so I stop there. I then continue to do more sets with the maximum resistance. That is the key to hypertrophy as far as I am concerned. Lots of sets with the maximum resistance. No drop sets or forced sets. What you will find is that the reps will drop by about the 3rd maximum set. So I warm up by adding resistance and stop when I can do about 12 to 15 good reps. Then by the 3rd set with this maximum resistance the reps drop to about 8 to 10 which is still good. If you drop to about 5 reps you tend to try to cheat too much to finish the reps. When you start doing that you recruit other muscles to help you finish the set. I superset most exercises so the rest between sets is about 2 to 3 minutes. I find that about 6 maximum sets stimulates growth but I sometimes do a few more sets. I haven't tried this strategy for legs yet but it works great for calves and arms. It remains to be seen what would happen if you kept doing maximum sets for hours on end. I suspect you would grow rapidly, indeed.

Bluto

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #243 on: December 25, 2006, 04:46:54 PM »
Very nice pull bilderass!

Agreed completely abt stopping short of failure also. If increasing the amt of weight lifted is the biggest factor in the long run(or the only thing that matters in a powerlifters case), then I don't see how going after that last rep affects anything except drain out the CNS more. And in your case the opposing argument fails simply because u were able to progress very well on your deadlift without training to failure. IMO, sparing yourself of failure played a part in your incredible progress.

But pumpster doesn't believe in draining out the CNS, he thinks it only takes a couple of days to recover, regardless of how hard you trained or what you did at the gym.
Z

oldtimer1

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #244 on: December 25, 2006, 04:54:44 PM »
I train with my form of HIT for many years.  I even have many of Darden's books.  The problem I have is the argument that volume isn't effective and that it's easy.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  That's like sprinter saying distance runners have it easy because they run sub maximal miles.  
 
Another point that is problematic in the HIT community is how is has turned into so many different groups all claiming they have the ultimate path to bodybuilding nirvana.  
 
Lastly is the problem of who achieved success from HIT.  This is where the BS flies.  In so many HIT books the pictures are of volume trainers.  It confuses the young guys who just assume they are HIT trainers.  I'm talking about HIT in it's conventional form of three work outs a week of 12 exercises for one set per exercise.  Take Joe Means.  He won the most muscular man at I believe the 75 AAU Mr. America contest. To this day I don't think there has been a more cut bodybuilder.  He was interviewed by Bill Reynolds about his training for that contest.  He used volume and plenty of it.  A two way split and tri sets for many bodyparts.  He did have many Nautilus machines in the private gym he worked out in but he clearly outlined a volume routine.  I had plenty of correspondence with Reynolds and I trust his integrity. Darden came out with a really good book on Nautilus and Means was on the cover and inside as the primary model.  If a successful volume trained bodybuilder trained on HIT for awhile does it make him a HIT success story?

Does a HIT book using pictures of volume trainers like Haney, Dickerson, Fox, and others prove the point of the superiority of HIT?  If a famous bodybuilder trains with Nautilus for a few weeks or a few months and has his picture taken on a Nautilus machine does that make them a HIT guy.  Oliva trained with volume and conventional sets prior to going to Florida and returned to that when he returned.  Is he the poster boy for HIT?  Anyone who has seen him train knows he did many sets and a three day split.  

The biggest poster boy of all for HIT is Viator. He has been seen during his best condition in the 80's using around 16 sets per body part by David Young. I have no problem believing that Viator used real HIT successfully for many years.  Coe usually used multiple sets but now he's used by HIT guys rewriting history as a guy who achieved his success using one set per exercise?  

The point I'm trying to get at is that the HIT community is hurting themself with their own actions.   Instead of embracing HIT guys like Dorian Yates they put him down as not being a HIT purist.  Imagine calling Lee Labrada or Dugdale anything but a HIT trainer because they don't use single set exercises?  Another error of their ways is calling everyone dumb that doesn't believe in their individual form of HIT.  Arrogance and rude manners seem to dominate the HIT culture.

I believe in high intensity training.  I have been using a form of HIT for 30 plus years.  I also know enough that volume does work.  It isn't easy.  To para phrase Darden, every thing has a price and if training for many hours a day is the price for a muscular body the price isn't worth it.  Train hard and get on with the rest of your life.

On a side note.  Darden lastest book that is only available on his web site is his best work ever.  It is a must have book.

pumpster

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #245 on: December 25, 2006, 06:22:24 PM »
But pumpster doesn't believe in draining out the CNS, he thinks it only takes a couple of days to recover, regardless of how hard you trained or what you did at the gym.

I don't know what kind of shape "Bluto's" in but i've never felt drained from it. If i'm lucky there's some DOMS the next day, a good thing, but that's about it. I'll bet Figgs would say same.

CC3

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #246 on: December 25, 2006, 06:53:40 PM »
Well I had this, which is dark enough to conceal my face. Doing some deficit deads with roughly 600, september 21. The starting point when I was doing 600 x 5 off the floor.
http://i16.tinypic.com/47aoc3n.jpg

Funny how quiet it gets after that pic is posted...

brianX

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #247 on: December 25, 2006, 06:57:16 PM »
The funny thing about "HIT" trainees is that they all look like they've never touched a weight in their life. The only HIT-ers that have any muscle are the hardcore drug users. Sad but true.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha

TheAnimal

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #248 on: December 25, 2006, 07:06:05 PM »
The funny thing about "HIT" trainees is that they all look like they've never touched a weight in their life. The only HIT-ers that have any muscle are the hardcore drug users. Sad but true.
wow true ownage... so true yet so harsh  ;)

alexxx

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #249 on: December 25, 2006, 07:07:28 PM »
The funny thing about "HIT" trainees is that they all look like they've never touched a weight in their life. The only HIT-ers that have any muscle are the hardcore drug users. Sad but true.

Well then that is something you have in common.
just push some weight!