Author Topic: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?  (Read 64529 times)

myseone

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #300 on: January 19, 2010, 06:02:59 PM »
ok we are getting side tracked here...they arent training to failure or total exhaustion or they would be spent fairly quickly and wouldnt be able to train several hours per day (which they do). to get back to bodybuilding lifting to failure isnt necessary to induce growth. not saying that failure training doenst induce growth as it does just saying it smarter no to train to failure as it keeps the cns fresh and allows you to train more often and with more volume. its like widening the opening of a bottle..you can get more water in if you have a wider opening. if you crush the cns with prolonged failure training you will have a real small bottle opening and thus slow the muscle building process. but yes going to failure during planned periods can be good..to push strenght up and "shock" (dont like that expression so much) muscles..but majority of training should be non failure training.


Has it been proven, that the CNS sytem is overloaded by training to failure? not attacking, thats research i would like to see.

I think it comes down to the balance of variables, the main ones being volume, frequency and intensity [not heavy weight but how close a person gets to failure]. Other ones being nutrition, choice of exercise, lifestyle, supplementation other stressors. Of course genetics play a huge role on what you can tolerate.

There is an inverse ratio between volume frequency and intensity, when one goes up or down the others have to be adjusted to avoid overwhelming the bodys adaptability. I think people adjust for this instinctively, for example high volume and high frequency trainees tend to pull back on intensity. High intensity trainees tend to pull back on volume and frequency. Of course there are some who haved pushed in all directions such as Platz, Defendis and Mischlak [spelling?]. We know that growth drugs play a role on what can be tolerated regarding exercise and to some extent this has skewed what will work without drugs.

The argument is what type of training produces the best result? The answer is a group of questions such as What is the goal? What is a persons temperement? What about genetics? these questions and more all factor in to what is the best path to follow.

I would say the best program is the one that produces progression towards a goal, if it stops working then adjustments are called for. Results is what matters in terms of determining effectiveness. Every champion bodybuilder has adjusted his/her training as they have learnt about their body some much better than others. The building of the body is a science, and knowledge can be gained through the teaching of others, but a certain amount of trial and error is essential to mastering you own training. Experience and paying attention is key.

ARNIE1947

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #301 on: October 08, 2010, 09:15:24 PM »
HIT CHAMPS NOW

ARNIE1947

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #302 on: October 08, 2010, 09:19:24 PM »
another torn biceps

ARNIE1947

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #303 on: October 08, 2010, 09:22:53 PM »
another gh gut ..?

dyslexic

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #304 on: October 08, 2010, 11:13:04 PM »
HIT theory is applied by extreme logic. Lots of things in this life are based on extreme logic. Problem is, life isn't based on logic. It works of some things and not others.


None of these bastards built their solid muscle by starting off with a 100%, non-waivering, exclusive HIT program. They already had their base. At that point, with the right amount of "assistance" just showing up to the gym would work. I don't give a shit what rep scheme you worked out.


There are so many, and they all work to some extent. Ironically enough, nobody can prove anything objectively, hence, the un-ending, un-exhaustible subjects and books.

Get u dumbass to the gym. Do it consistently. Stop flappin your lips and faggin off. Eat, sleep and shit. It will all work out, eventually.


Mentzer and his Jones-like theories are great for reading entertainment. For everyone of his logical factoids, there is someone in direct opposition to him and his "theories" that is huge and ripped.


STFU on this conversation already. He's dead. He's not even here to change his fucking mind.

Smanjh

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #305 on: October 09, 2010, 07:13:05 AM »
HIT theory is applied by extreme logic. Lots of things in this life are based on extreme logic. Problem is, life isn't based on logic. It works of some things and not others.


None of these bastards built their solid muscle by starting off with a 100%, non-waivering, exclusive HIT program. They already had their base. At that point, with the right amount of "assistance" just showing up to the gym would work. I don't give a shit what rep scheme you worked out.


There are so many, and they all work to some extent. Ironically enough, nobody can prove anything objectively, hence, the un-ending, un-exhaustible subjects and books.

Get u dumbass to the gym. Do it consistently. Stop flappin your lips and faggin off. Eat, sleep and shit. It will all work out, eventually.


Mentzer and his Jones-like theories are great for reading entertainment. For everyone of his logical factoids, there is someone in direct opposition to him and his "theories" that is huge and ripped.


STFU on this conversation already. He's dead. He's not even here to change his fucking mind.

Mentzer saw what a deload could do for people. For rank beginners, anything works since any workout will cause overload, thus the strength remarkably improves. Mentzer got it to where people were still getting this by his 1993 version, and by his 1996 version, he was tapering his clients again, but he thought he was finding out something enormous with constantly needing to reduce volume and frequency.

This is dead wrong. Like mentioned previously, he saw a tapering effect each time for the vast majority. He never supervised people training for long periods, and most guys that were success stories ended up coming on the net later talking about how they do more frequency now, something like DC training.

Now, the points are not all bad, you always want to do the minimum required for the best result at all times in just about everything in life. You would not tip someone 300 bucks for a 50 dollar meal would you?

Anyway, you would not do 100 sets if maybe 5 were getting you good results. It would be stupid in our case, because you would need to deload quicker than happening on the right volume for overload.

So, for our purposes, Mike was certainly right about doing what is minimally required and thinking about overtraining. Not OCDing about it, but at least understanding that diminishing returns will occur.

So, if you do, say, 12 sets for chest, why not 40 or 50? Thinking like this is applying HIT thinking, which lines up with just about every trainer in existence now, but it did not per the writings of the pre Jones era.

The biggest mistake I ever made with training was thinking that if a program was flawed, there was nothing else to get from it. Like, if Mentzer's split failed to work, I would go to Arnold's. If that did not work, I kept searching until I realized the objectives and what was happening with the body turned out to be exactly the same when any program worked. 

dyslexic

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #306 on: October 09, 2010, 04:32:52 PM »
I would never be so bold (or ignorant) as to insinuate that Mike Mentzer did not have a huge and positive (no pun intended) impact on the bodybuilding world by way of an "exacting" science.

The question was: "How far would you take it?"

He eventually (as stated) had his (short-term) lab rats doing next to nothing and coming back for their next sessions almost a month later. He became to extreme, fanatical, and dogmatic in his approach.


I have never met a big and ripped up Pro BB who follows his advice as it was written. Most logical and realistic folks have pulled what wisdom they could from his theories (or "science" as he called it)- and they have added what they know works; which is basically: more volume.


Combined volume, consistency and intensity are a good combination. Add some emphasis on the eccentric portion of the rep, and I think you've got a recipe for success.

Regardless of all the reality; someone is still making a shitload of money off of his writings and philosophies.

Smanjh

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #307 on: October 09, 2010, 07:38:50 PM »
I would never be so bold (or ignorant) as to insinuate that Mike Mentzer did not have a huge and positive (no pun intended) impact on the bodybuilding world by way of an "exacting" science.

The question was: "How far would you take it?"

He eventually (as stated) had his (short-term) lab rats doing next to nothing and coming back for their next sessions almost a month later. He became to extreme, fanatical, and dogmatic in his approach.


I have never met a big and ripped up Pro BB who follows his advice as it was written. Most logical and realistic folks have pulled what wisdom they could from his theories (or "science" as he called it)- and they have added what they know works; which is basically: more volume.


Combined volume, consistency and intensity are a good combination. Add some emphasis on the eccentric portion of the rep, and I think you've got a recipe for success.

Regardless of all the reality; someone is still making a shitload of money off of his writings and philosophies.

He was selling a product, just like MuscleTech (I am shocked they have not came out with an ErectTech for 500% harder erections). The thoughts were one thing, the routines and dogma were another. The main issue was with his health and him being unable to go through training for a long period himself with these methods.

After his 'drugged up 1980's', he was back to his default state or worse. He was seen buying steroids to get back into shape circa 94-95. Then he quit.

I honestly believe he would have arrived at a very similar program pattern as Dante did with DC training. Blast and cruise. We all do that whether we know it or not. Arnold did it too. Ever take it easy for a few workouts? etc.

What he did break was the thinking that, 'hey, I am shit tired after 8 sets, but I need to get my 20 in' type of thing that stops progress for most doing that and expecting straight line progress.

Rmj11

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #308 on: February 12, 2023, 09:48:27 PM »
50 years of hit and not one top champion uses it. No elite natural trainer uses it. No serious trainer uses it.

Dorian Yates used conventional methods to build 99% of his mass, not hit.

Mentzer did high volume most of the time. John Terilli trained with mentzer and saw him do 25 sets for the back alone.

The only guys who keep promoting this hit guff are those with financial interests in selling this fad. Here's a few of these charlatans who promote hit as the best way to train and yet they look unremarkable.

Drew Baye, chunky out of shape.
Doug McGuff, average where's the beef
Ellington Darden, skinny no muscle
Clarence Bass, looks like he trained in Auschwitz and he even took roids. Lol.

Rmj11

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Re: Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?
« Reply #309 on: February 12, 2023, 09:50:35 PM »
John Little (appropriate surname), mentzer's nut hugging no 1 fan that hilariously once claimed you can train once every 6 months and still get strong.

If hit is so great why hasn't it worked for these nitwits?