Started the Adonis principles today - hardest workout ever!!

[Mr. Intenseone]

http://home.howstuffworks.com/winemaking.htm

Tardling..........you must have missed this part, and by the way, I never said wine didn't have health benefits, I know it does!

[Krankenstein]

Anything over 15 percent is obese and not optimal.

Hope this helps.

Do you use Meth when you diet?  Just wondering.

Adam....do you feel that your buddy Squadfather is obese then?

[The True Adonis]

Anorexics eat "anything they want" in very restricted amounts too.  When coupled with exercise addiction, they also do bodyweight exercises like crunches, push-ups, and chins (if they're able) all day long as well.  Adonis only uses weights now 2 times a week for one hour and I'm guessing it's probably a marathon volume session of pretty light weights.  He admitted last night that he hasn't deadlifted more than 470 pounds this year.

2000-2900 calories is optimal for me.

Ask AZDRUGFREE what is optimal for him.

Go ahead. Ask him.

[The True Adonis]

I am 172 lbs by the way.

[Mr. Intenseone]

Anything over 15 percent is obese and not optimal.

Hope this helps.

Again, your high, too low of bodyfat is detramental to the function of nerves and internal organs and even worse for women!

[The True Adonis]

Adam....do you feel that your buddy Squadfather is obese then?

If he is over 15 percent he is.  But he knows how to fix it.

[Mr. Intenseone]

Someone said a lot of meth was going around back stage at a Masters show once. 

Yes, it's true, it contributed to the passing of a friend who placed high at the Masters, it's common place in bodybuilding.

[CARTEL]

Tardling..........you must have missed this part, and by the way, I never said wine didn't have health benefits, I know it does!

No you didn't. Adonis hasn't come out with his research for this yet. He has a lot on his plate with his principles and revealing to us that the world is indeed flat. All in due time though.

[The True Adonis]

Yes, it's true, it contributed to the passing of a friend who placed high at the Masters, it's common place in bodybuilding.

Why though?

What is the draw of Meth?

[The True Adonis]

Adam....do you feel that your buddy Squadfather is obese then?

What is your caloric range when you diet and mantain under 10 percent?

[Krankenstein]

If he is over 15 percent he is.  But he knows how to fix it.

So, why dont you get all over his ass like you do other people that are so high in bodyfat?

Anyways....what do you think is the best way of determining how many calories a body expends?  I am talking about a device/machine/etc.  I thought the Bod-Pod did that, but thats simply body fat.  Then again, if someone has their bodyfat done....and the lean mass goes down, we all know you wont lose bone, or cardiac and smooth tissue....where did the loss of 'lean tissue' come from?

[Krankenstein]

What is your caloric range when you diet and mantain under 10 percent?

Sad to say, I only consume abut 22-2400 cals per day.  Anytime I have tried the 'traditional' way of eating (which for me would involve consuming 3500+ cals), I have only gotten fat.  I cant do that anymore.  I personally want to remain leaner so that prepping for shows is easier.  I think its a hell of a lot easier to get leaner that way.  Ask any of the guys who are the most shredded naturals.....they dont get above 8%.

[Krankenstein]

This is pretty interesting:

The rate at which an organism utilizes energy, measured in Kcal/ hr or other units of energy per time is metabolic rate, and if measured in Kcal/kg - hour or similar units of energy/mass-time can be considered specific metabolic rate. The rate at rest is the basal metabolic rate (BMR), defined for humans to be the metabolic rate that is found after a person has fasted for 12 hours, slept for at least 8 hours, and has been resting quietly for at least half an hour.  Muscular activity will, of course, increase the metabolic rate.   Since the conditions for BMR are difficult to achieve, we will really be measuring Resting Metabolic Rate (RMR), which does not require the fasting and half hour resting, and is expected to be a little higher.

Metabolic rate can be measured by measuring the temperature change of a closed container containing a metabolizing organism, since the temperature change and heat production are just related by a proportionality constant – the heat capacity.  This is called direct calorimetry.  It is accurate, but requires very specialized equipment so it is inconvenient, especially for large animals.  Since living organisms use molecular oxygen only for cellular respiration, the rate of oxygen consumption is directly related to the rate of ATP production. Also, since oxygen is not given off as a by-product of other cellular reactions (except, of course, photosynthesis), it must be obtained from the environment. Because oxygen consumption from the atmosphere can be easily and accurately measured without resorting to complicated technical analytical procedures, metabolic rates of terrestrial organisms can be obtained.  In this lab we will take advantage of the stoichiometric relationships between energy production and oxygen consumption, and measure oxygen consumption.  This is called indirect calorimetry, which has several variants. 

I guess a good way to determine if someone 'lost muscle' would to set themself up using indirect calorimetry PRIOR to dieting....then do it again quite a ways INTO the diet when strength loss starts to occur.  Being that skeletal muscle is the most metabolic tissue in the human body (up to 8x more than fat cells) you could say with some degree of certainty that some of the metabolic change could have come from  'muscle loss'.  Again, not saying it would be an absolute....just a possible scenario.

[The True Adonis]

So, why dont you get all over his ass like you do other people that are so high in bodyfat?

Anyways....what do you think is the best way of determining how many calories a body expends?  I am talking about a device/machine/etc.  I thought the Bod-Pod did that, but thats simply body fat.  Then again, if someone has their bodyfat done....and the lean mass goes down, we all know you wont lose bone, or cardiac and smooth tissue....where did the loss of 'lean tissue' come from?

He knows he is 15 percent.  No need to state the obvious to him.

Humans are habitual creatures.  On a long enough timeline, the margin of error is diminished greatly, almost to a point where there is little variation.

This is how I derive calories.  My formula incorporates this.

The best device would be infrared and thermal imaging or heat sensing electrodes.  That is not feasible.

What loss of lean mass?

If you are talking calipers, there is a 3-4 percent error WITHOUT factoring in the test takers error.

So lets say there is no error in the test taker.

Lets say the body is 10 percent bodyfat.   Now lets say the Calipers read 13 percent bodyfat which can easily happen due to the margin of error, WITHOUT counting the test takers error.

Given that calipers state this error, the range of the reading is 9 percent-17 percent. Quite a LARGE Variance there.

Now if you use that to base your lean tissue on, you will have TOTALLY skewed results as you can see.

[The True Adonis]

Sad to say, I only consume abut 22-2400 cals per day.  Anytime I have tried the 'traditional' way of eating (which for me would involve consuming 3500+ cals), I have only gotten fat.  I cant do that anymore.  I personally want to remain leaner so that prepping for shows is easier.  I think its a hell of a lot easier to get leaner that way.  Ask any of the guys who are the most shredded naturals.....they dont get above 8%.

EXACTLY!
And this is what I have done and what NOBODY HERE understands.  Jeff Mcfarland included.

I eat 2000-2900 and remain RIPPED.

[Mr. Intenseone]

He knows he is 15 percent.  No need to state the obvious to him.

Humans are habitual creatures.  On a long enough timeline, the margin of error is diminished greatly, almost to a point where there is little variation.

This is how I derive calories.  My formula incorporates this.

The best device would be infrared and thermal imaging or heat sensing electrodes.  That is not feasible.

What loss of lean mass?

If you are talking calipers, there is a 3-4 percent error WITHOUT factoring in the test takers error.

So lets say there is no error in the test taker.

Lets say the body is 10 percent bodyfat.   Now lets say the Calipers read 13 percent bodyfat which can easily happen due to the margin of error, WITHOUT counting the test takers error.

Given that calipers state this error, the range of the reading is 9 percent-17 percent. Quite a LARGE Variance there.

Now if you use that to base your lean tissue on, you will have TOTALLY skewed results as you can see.

If there is no test taker how do you know he is 10% BF? There is a margin of error in every test, you don't make sense!

[McFarland]

Sad to say, I only consume abut 22-2400 cals per day.  Anytime I have tried the 'traditional' way of eating (which for me would involve consuming 3500+ cals), I have only gotten fat.  I cant do that anymore.  I personally want to remain leaner so that prepping for shows is easier.  I think its a hell of a lot easier to get leaner that way.  Ask any of the guys who are the most shredded naturals.....they dont get above 8%.

I see where you're coming from in that respect.  But for several months after a show, surely these naturals ingest at least between 3000-3500 calories worth of clean foods because like you said, they are no longer 4%, they're 8%, and that had to come from somewhere.  No one gets this lean and stays this lean without eventually wasting away.  I honestly wasn't that concerned until Adonis mentioned the other day that he's taken up chins with every piss, and then after all this ranting about how everyone is "MORBIDLY" obese that doesn't have abs and shredded serrati showing has me suspecting that he's headed for very big trouble in all this.

He is driven to get triceps as shredded as Getbig's "jrod's" were before the natural show he won "with no effort."  Which means to him, no cardio, no hunger, and with no regulation in his diet other than total caloric intake on any given day.  I am convinced that his will to succeed in this will out-trump his ability to keep from losing touch with his perception of hunger.  I don't doubt for a minute these days that he feels no hunger, because his mind has probably become numb to it at this point.  A human body is going to feel hunger when every head of that body's tricep structure is striated with paper-thin skin without an activity level that most here would consider "excessive."  A gymnast might have striated triceps like that, but how many hours of practice daily go into achieving that?  And it is commonly understood that former gymnasts (or at least the girls) are especially prone to eating disorders after working so long to be as lean as possible.  I really don't see myself as hating on Adonis, this is a stated, genuine concern for his mental and physical well-being.  If he's not in trouble now, it's where he's headed unless he can step outside all of this and see a bigger picture soon.    

[pumpher]

Look. You can`t rush a Natural Muscle gain.

Bulking up is useless.  He won`t gain anything except fat.  He will be able to gain the same amount of muscle using my methods MINUS the fat.

Protein synthesis will be equal in each state.  There is no benefit to fat.  I can see he is fooling himself already with his "lift poundages".

Obviously Matt C does not know much about physics.  I went over a little with him tonight and evne dumbed it down.  I think it was successful.

Are you saying that actin & myosin synthesis will be the same in a hypocaloric, catabolic, cortisol high, amino acid deficient, state compared to an anabolic, protein rich, high endogenous insulin rich state?

[The True Adonis]

I see where you're coming from in that respect.  But for several months after a show, surely these naturals ingest at least between 3000-3500 calories worth of clean foods because they are no longer 4%, they're 8%.  I honestly wasn't that concerned until Adonis mentioned the other day that he's taken up chins with every piss, and then after all this ranting about how everyone is "MORBIDLY" obese that doesn't have abs and shredded serrati showing has me suspecting that he's headed for very big trouble in all this.

He is driven to get triceps as shredded as Getbig's "jrod's" were before the natural show he won "with no effort."  Which means to him, no cardio, no hunger, and with no regulation in his diet other than total caloric intake on any given day.  I am convinced that his will to succeed in this will out-trump his ability to keep from losing touch with his perception of hunger.  I don't doubt for a minute these days that he feels no hunger, because his mind has probably become numb to it at this point.  A human body is going to feel hunger when every head of that body's tricep structure is striated with paper-thin skin without an activity level that most here would consider "excessive."  A gymnast might have striated triceps like that, but how many hours of practice daily go into achieving that?  That's not a good thing.  And it is commonly understood that former gymnasts (or at least the girls) are especially prone to eating disorders after working so long to be as lean as possible.  I really don't see myself as hating on Adonis, this is a stated, genuine concern for his mental and physical well-being.  If he's not in trouble now, it's where he's headed unless he can step outside all of this and see a bigger picture soon.    

I pissed 4 times today without doing chins.

Hope this helps.  But I did do 50 of them today.

[McFarland]

I pissed 4 times today without doing chins.

Hope this helps.  But I did do 50 of them today.

Alright well you know what, if you think you need more activity to get a little leaner just give in and do some cardio.  You are NOT doing 50 chins a day, every day, to make your back bigger.  You're trying to get leaner is what you're doing.  Your back is NOT going to get any bigger doing that much chin work every day.  You're essentially finding a way to justify very high-level cardio to fit your agenda.  Please realize this.     

[The True Adonis]

I see where you're coming from in that respect.  But for several months after a show, surely these naturals ingest at least between 3000-3500 calories worth of clean foods because like you said, they are no longer 4%, they're 8%, and that had to come from somewhere.  No one gets this lean and stays this lean without eventually wasting away.  I honestly wasn't that concerned until Adonis mentioned the other day that he's taken up chins with every piss, and then after all this ranting about how everyone is "MORBIDLY" obese that doesn't have abs and shredded serrati showing has me suspecting that he's headed for very big trouble in all this.

He is driven to get triceps as shredded as Getbig's "jrod's" were before the natural show he won "with no effort."  Which means to him, no cardio, no hunger, and with no regulation in his diet other than total caloric intake on any given day.  I am convinced that his will to succeed in this will out-trump his ability to keep from losing touch with his perception of hunger.  I don't doubt for a minute these days that he feels no hunger, because his mind has probably become numb to it at this point.  A human body is going to feel hunger when every head of that body's tricep structure is striated with paper-thin skin without an activity level that most here would consider "excessive."  A gymnast might have striated triceps like that, but how many hours of practice daily go into achieving that?  And it is commonly understood that former gymnasts (or at least the girls) are especially prone to eating disorders after working so long to be as lean as possible.  I really don't see myself as hating on Adonis, this is a stated, genuine concern for his mental and physical well-being.  If he's not in trouble now, it's where he's headed unless he can step outside all of this and see a bigger picture soon.    

So are you saying that DRUGFREE4LIFE, a NATURAL pro is anorexic?

Man you are a real piece of work.

Grow up. Not everyone is on drugs like you.
We CANNOT eat as much as drug users.

We can eat whatever we like though, just as you can.

Just in lower amounts.

[Krankenstein]

I see where you're coming from in that respect.  But for several months after a show, surely these naturals ingest at least between 3000-3500 calories worth of clean foods because like you said, they are no longer 4%, they're 8%, and that had to come from somewhere.  No one gets this lean and stays this lean without eventually wasting away.  I honestly wasn't that concerned until Adonis mentioned the other day that he's taken up chins with every piss, and then after all this ranting about how everyone is "MORBIDLY" obese that doesn't have abs and shredded serrati showing has me suspecting that he's headed for very big trouble in all this.

Yeah, I tend to agree...after a show...I think that you can consume way more calories for a period of time before there is a negative effect (fat gain).  I know after my show in 2005 it was TWO MONTHS before I put on some appreciable body fat...and i was eating good...but there was more shit in the diet than I normal was.  This past year I put body fat back on faster.  So, who knows....could have been the type of diet as I dieted for each show differently.

Adam says he is at 3 - 4%....with that I would imagine we could see the cross-fibers in the quads and triceps.  Also, he should have the 'veiny' look to the abs (i remember your ex's abs shot with the veins...that to me is 3 -4 %).

[The True Adonis]

Alright well you know what, if you think you need more activity to get a little leaner just give in and do some cardio.  You are NOT doing 50 chins a day, every day, to make your back bigger.  You're trying to get leaner is what you're doing.  Your back is NOT going to get any bigger doing that much chin work every day.  You're essentially finding a way to justify very high-level cardio to fit your agenda.  Please realize this.     

I don`t need to do cardio.  I don`t need to get any leaner.  I am perfect.  I will take pictures soon.  Of course you will find a way to discredit it.  Its what you people do best.

I did go on a nature walk with Jezebelle yesterday and she picked flowers.  Does that count?

[Mr. Intenseone]

I don`t need to do cardio.  I don`t need to get any leaner.  I am perfect.  I will take pictures soon.  Of course you will find a way to discredit it.  Its what you people do best.

I did go on a nature walk with Jezebelle yesterday and she picked flowers.  Does that count?

No one is perfect!

[McFarland]

Yeah, I tend to agree...after a show...I think that you can consume way more calories for a period of time before there is a negative effect (fat gain).  I know after my show in 2005 it was TWO MONTHS before I put on some appreciable body fat...and i was eating good...but there was more shit in the diet than I normal was.  This past year I put body fat back on faster.  So, who knows....could have been the type of diet as I dieted for each show differently.

Adam says he is at 3 - 4%....with that I would imagine we could see the cross-fibers in the quads and triceps.  Also, he should have the 'veiny' look to the abs (i remember your ex's abs shot with the veins...that to me is 3 -4 %).

Veins aren't what you look for to determine 3-4%.  At 5-6% your veins are usually much more prevalent than at 3-4%.  Any bodybuilder you've ever seen that was truly SLICED had relatively little vascularity because to afford you the criss-cross striations seen at 3%, you much lose alot more water and with that goes blood volume and probably vascular dilation in your most peaked condition.