working tris with all free weights

[NoCalBbEr]

hey guys
i'm thinking of training tris with all free weights. I dont really like doing pushdowns bc they dont really get heavy enough for me. i would rather use free weights any ways..

this is what i was thinking of doing
close grip bench press
lying exensions
seated one arm extenisons
weighted dip

do you guys think that pushdowns is a most have for huge tris ??

thanks

[leonp1981]

No, the best mass movements for tri's are dips, close-grips, and extensions.  Base your workouts around these and you won't go wrong.

[TheAnimal]

close grips  haha always "the best for mass"

[pumpster]

close grips  haha always "the best for mass"

Yup, this is taken as gospel true or not.

Pushdowns aren't essential, but if you'd like to make it a better mass movement flare the elbows out with a close grip and it becomes a cable compound along the lines of dips or close-grip benches. Then do 1/2-2/3 ROMS using a lot of weight.

Another thing to try is bench dips instead of dips; see which you find more effective.

The best size builder of all IMO is lying extensions to behind the head, lowering the weight below the bench, getting a good stretch. It's ok to swing it a little from the bottom to get the weight going, doesn't have to be strict in fact it's better if it's not.

[leonp1981]

close grips  haha always "the best for mass"

There'll always be exercises that don't work for some people, but those three are generally regarded as the best for triceps mass.  Close-grips worked for me, so I don't see a problem with them.  This guy will have to try them all and see what works for him.

[pumpster]

There'll always be exercises that don't work for some people, but those three are generally regarded as the best for triceps mass.  Close-grips worked for me, so I don't see a problem with them.  This guy will have to try them all and see what works for him.

Agreed; it works for some and for some it's nothing special. It is funny though how often it's mentioned by so many that you start to wonder if it really is that great or just hyped as such. The real deal to me has always been 2-arm extensions no. 1, because that is the only exercise that primarily hits the larger area of the triceps, not compounds like close grips or dips. Some also like 1-arm extensions i don't think they're necessary if the 2-arm ones are done but decide for yourself which works best and delete the other, no need to do both in the same workout.

[leonp1981]

Agreed; it works for some and for some it's nothing special. It is funny though how often it's mentioned as the best of the best when it's not necessarily true.

Yeah, a lot of people find they aggravate the wrists as well, which is something I never found.  I've done them since I started lifting and can close-grip nearly the same as I bench (although to be honest my bench ain't special!)  I do lying extensions rarely, I usually find that they give me elbow pain?  If I'm sat up its fine, but lying down seems to do something.  I've recently started seated overhead extensions with a hammer-grip bar, which so far feels good.

[pumpster]

Yeah, a lot of people find they aggravate the wrists as well, which is something I never found.  I've done them since I started lifting and can close-grip nearly the same as I bench (although to be honest my bench ain't special!)  I do lying extensions rarely, I usually find that they give me elbow pain?  If I'm sat up its fine, but lying down seems to do something.  I've recently started seated overhead extensions with a hammer-grip bar, which so far feels good.

Seated are also excellent, just not quite as comfortable as lying the angle is different, so the effect is too. If you have elbow pain, try to work around it by doing extensions after compounds, and by keeping the reps higher with shorter rests of a minute of less between sets.

You can still do lying extensions include using a slight decline while making sure the weight goes behind the head below the bench, not skulls which are fairly useless. Others that are great are incline extensions like you're doing but using a low pulley and rope extension, or bent over extensions using the lat pulley and rope extension-bend over all the way until upper bod's parallel to the floor. In all cases it's better to cheat a little to get the weight moving, otherwise you'll hit sticking points where you still have something left but can't get the weight moving from the bottom.

[AVBG]

hey guys
i'm thinking of training tris with all free weights. I dont really like doing pushdowns bc they dont really get heavy enough for me. i would rather use free weights any ways..

this is what i was thinking of doing
close grip bench press
lying exensions
seated one arm extenisons
weighted dip

do you guys think that pushdowns is a most have for huge tris ??

thanks

pushdowns are overated compared to the above exercises

[pumpster]

pushdowns are overated compared to the above exercises

Agreed, standard pushdowns aren't as good as heavier compounds that work the same areas, like bench dips, dips, CGBP or modified pushdowns that are purer compounds, such as the one i mentioned. Bertil using this modified, elbows out version; full ROMS aren't necessary:

[leonp1981]

Others that are great are incline extensions like you're doing but using a low pulley and rope extension, or bent over extensions using the lat pulley and rope extension-bend over all the way until upper bod's parallel to the floor.

I used to do these in my old gym (I called them 'Rocky' extensions!) but I work out mostly at home now so don't have the equipment.

[pumpster]

I used to do these in my old gym (I called them 'Rocky' extensions!) but I work out mostly at home now so don't have the equipment.

Hammer grip and two-hands around the end of one dumbbell are the best of all for size IMO, E-Z curl also good.

What's up with the elbows that you can't do lying..have you tried them as i've said, using higher reps? Have you rested them for a while to let the pain go away before trying different variations to see what would work without pain? Either way, seated extensions are also excellent.

[leonp1981]

What's up with the elbows that you can't do lying..have you tried them as i've said, using higher reps? Have you rested them for a while to let the pain go away before trying different variations to see what would work without pain?

Yeah, I've tried doing them last when the muscles already fatigued, light weight/high reps, super-slow reps, all sorts.  I don't know how to explain it, but it feels like when I'm doing lying extensions, the pressure is concentrated solely on the elbow (hinge), whereas sitting up the pressure seems to be distributed more evenly down through my body?  Does that make any sense?  Anyway, thats how it feels.  I still do them, just not very often.  Have you ever tried barbell kickbacks?  Weird at first but quite nice once you get used to them (nice finisher).

[pumpster]

Yeah, I've tried doing them last when the muscles already fatigued, light weight/high reps, super-slow reps, all sorts.  I don't know how to explain it, but it feels like when I'm doing lying extensions, the pressure is concentrated solely on the elbow (hinge), whereas sitting up the pressure seems to be distributed more evenly down through my body?  Does that make any sense?  Anyway, thats how it feels.  I still do them, just not very often.  Have you ever tried barbell kickbacks?  Weird at first but quite nice once you get used to them (nice finisher).

Ya, elbow probs are most commonly caused by some form of free weight seated/lying/angled extensions. What you'll find though, is that the bench angle will shift the emphasis, try declines if it's possible on your home setup it should shift the emphasis off the elbows and on to the middle of the tris more. If not possible try getting a better bench new or used in future that allows more options but in the meantime seated's also excellent. Same thing on seated, if you lean back at more of an angle it'll shift the effect, better or worse for you to determine.

Kickbacks are a nice finisher as they say. For those with access to pulleys, cable kickbacks are better, because they take the rear delt out of the movement, muscles that i find get tired before the tris when using dumbbells. One way around this is to wear an arm blaster, which keeps the arms in place and doesnt' work the delts, only the tris.

[leonp1981]

Ya, elbow probs are most commonly caused by some form of free weight seated/lying/angled extensions. What you'll find though, is that the bench angle will shift the emphasis, try declines if it's possible on your home setup it should shift the emphasis off the elbows and on to the middle of the tris more. If not possible try getting a better bench new or used in future that allows more options but in the meantime seated's also excellent. Same thing on seated, if you lean back at more of an angle it'll shift the effect, better or worse for you to determine.

Kickbacks are a nice finisher as they say. For those with access to pulleys, cable kickbacks are far better, because they take the rear delt out of the movement, muscles that i find get tired before the tris when using dumbbells. One way around this is to wear an arm blaster, which keeps the arms in place and doesnt' work the delts, only the tris.

I've got a decline bench, so I'll give them a try next week.  (Its a shame I only trained tri's 6 hours ago!)

[pumpster]

I've got a decline bench, so I'll give them a try next week.  (Its a shame I only trained tri's 6 hours ago!)

If the muscle aren't sore in 2-3 days, they can be trained again, assuming that there's no elbow pain.

Make sure a tri compound's done before extensions, and keep the reps higher 10-15 with shorter rests. Another thing that helps elbows is the grip-try two hands around the end of a dumbbell this time, for both lying and seated. Hammer grip's just as great, but try both because of the difference in effect on the elbows.

[Hedgehog]

Generally, adding one excersise where you work the full range of motion is a good idea IMO. Also, rotating the excersises is a pretty good idea.

Something like this:

workout 1:
Close grip benchpresses
 rope French presses

workout 2:
dips
DB french presses


I generally think you could go fairly moderate on the French presses, be cautious of injuring the elbow, focus on working the weakest part of the range of motion.

-Hedge

[Cold]

I do a lot of the elbows-out-wide short range of motion cable pushdowns like Pumpster mentioned. People in the gym roll their eyes at me they must be laughing and thinking "what shitty form".

I laugh at them when my shirt comes off.

[mesmorph78]

lying skull ckull crushers with the long olympic bar
best overall trceps builder for me...

close grip bench and dips are good but my chest is my gentical strong point grows very easily.. those two hit chest....
two arm dumbell extensions.. work the long head.. i do mine on an incline bench.
for the outer head wide grip pushdowns... and rope pushdowns..
but..
 the best for me
lying triceps extensions wth the olympic bar.....
best
 

[pumpster]

lying skull ckull crushers with the long olympic bar
best overall trceps builder for me...

close grip bench and dips are good but my chest is my gentical strong point grows very easily.. those two hit chest....
two arm dumbell extensions.. work the long head.. i do mine on an incline bench.
for the outer head wide grip pushdowns... and rope pushdowns..
but..
 the best for me
lying triceps extensions wth the olympic bar.....
best

Makes sense. Just wondering:

-Why you'd use an olympic bar vs. a hammer, ez curl or end of a dumbbell for better balance, isolation and comfort, less wrist strain? Not that the long bar wouldn't be ok i used to do them, but there's no comparison with the shorter bars.
-Are you doing extensions behind the head lowering well below the bench while getting a good stretch, or skulls? Skulls aren't as effective.

[jpm101]

The thing is that most any tricep extension exercise will offer the more  potential for elbow joint injury (unless your a 500-600lb+ PL'er). Be it French presses, skullcrushers, lying extensions, etc. And while using either a straight bar, EZ bar or DB. Even with a complete warm-up/stretch, elbow thermo wrap's or a heat rubbing compound used before and during a tricep workout, the odds may be greater when doing extensions..  While an exercise like close grip, elbows in throughout, BP's (or dips) may lessen the full stress on the elbows themselves.

Those press downs , that Pumpster suggest, can be well worth the effort.. I've watched gymnist  do them, but on horizontal bars. Wide or medium grip, not so much narrow, for them. Where I train at, we have a dipping setup that allows the knuckles to face forward, giving a different angle to tricep development.   Personal view (for what's it's worth) is that extensions should never be the only form of a tricep exercise in a workout, but should follow a compound triceps exercise. Another observation (again, for what it's worth) is that a  Hammer grip seems to lessen the overall stress on the elbows/wrist and affects the triceps in a more positive way. Good Luck.

Side Bar: I've seen a couple of guy's, over the years, do Skullcrushers with 300+ (Skullcrushers are partial movements) with excellent results and not any sign of elbow trouble (so far). At another time, I was standing next to a experienced BB'er  who was doing  French press with only a 105lb BB and snapped a tendon in his left elbow (SS'ing bicep/triceps). The outter head of the tricep just wadded up and formed a big muscle and blood knot near the joint. Nasty stuff.

[pumpster]

There's a video clip of Branch Warren's training on the main board in which he uses one of the many variations that aren't popularly known. In his case, he's doing close-grip benches down to the face, which might be better than skulls.

Lots of those press/extension variations are worth trying, like the pullover/press, etc.

Elbow problems re: extensions are usually an avoidable problem, through trial and error involving differerent grips, bars, benches, disparate forms of resistance, moderate or high rep ranges, relatively short rests, and thorough warmups. Here's some more info on this:
 http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=5.0

[mesmorph78]

Makes sense. Just wondering:

-Why you'd use an olympic bar vs. a hammer, ez curl or end of a dumbbell for better balance, isolation and comfort, less wrist strain? Not that the long bar wouldn't be ok i used to do them, but there's no comparison with the shorter bars.
-Are you doing extensions behind the head lowering well below the bench while getting a good stretch, or skulls? Skulls aren't as effective.

wsup pumpster...
i think the olympic bar builds mre mass same as doing curls with the olympic bar.. give me serious gains in the bis...
maay be the muscles have to work extra to balance the bar makes it more intense... i find them way more effective than camber bar extensions..
and with my extensions i go behind the head for the stretch to the fohead does nothing for me...
i lways go deep behind the head..
next time you work arms try doing extensions with the olympic bar behind the head... with 45's on each side i gurantee you will see the diff in ur tris in no time..

[pumpster]

wsup pumpster...
i think the olympic bar builds mre mass same as doing curls with the olympic bar.. give me serious gains in the bis...
maay be the muscles have to work extra to balance the bar makes it more intense... i find them way more effective than camber bar extensions..
and with my extensions i go behind the head for the stretch to the fohead does nothing for me...
i lways go deep behind the head..
next time you work arms try doing extensions with the olympic bar behind the head... with 45's on each side i gurantee you will see the diff in ur tris in no time..

Trust me i used straight barbells for years, a decade or more-i'm trying to share better info for those in the same position. I'd never go back to a straight bar. It might be psychological for you-a hammer bar or 2 hands around the end of a dumbbell's more intense, more comfortable, easier to control and easier on the joints.

Very few BBs even decades ago used a straight BB for extensions, very rare. Those who did probably didn't have anything else. The truth is, an E-Z curl bar's more effective for tris than it is for bis in most cases.

[thewickedtruth]

the problem with pushdowns is, after a certain amount of weight, unless you're secured in place, you'll lift yourself off the floor. That is why closed grip benching and weighted dips are gospel. Most people don't even do pressdowns correctly...it's almost like a youtube quality cable benchpress.