Legitimate arguements aganst science...

[_Morrison_]

Seriously.  Are there any?  Because as far as I know, there is no way to disprove things like evolution, extra-terrestrial life (Not UFOs), and Jesus not being white.

Any valid arguements against this?

[Camel Jockey]

None.

Unless you count the same old "can't disprove god" garbage.

[ToxicAvenger]

Jesus ws a sand n igger...

go to saudi..wait..no go to a DC club thats saudi owned..which is pretty much everyone one of em..you'll find a whole host of light skinned middle eastern guys with perfect goatees and long flowey hair that resemble jesus.. 

[Camel Jockey]

Jesus ws a sand n igger...

go to saudi..wait..no go to a DC club thats saudi owned..which is pretty much everyone one of em..you'll find a whole host of light skinned middle eastern guys with perfect goatees and long flowey hair that resemble jesus.. 

Or try a kabab vendor or limo driver in NYC.

[ToxicAvenger]

Or try a kabab vendor or limo driver in NYC.

been to nyc..hated it..gonna go watch the nationals..wait or is it the universe..one of em this summer..

my friend is competing..

[Necrosis]

Seriously.  Are there any?  Because as far as I know, there is no way to disprove things like evolution, extra-terrestrial life (Not UFOs), and Jesus not being white.

Any valid arguements against this?

i dont even understand your question. theories can be disproved.

if evolution was disproved, it would be by another scietific theory, not god.

if god created here and there, that implys mistakes in the creation, also a rational god as we suppose it is would create rationally or in a manner in which would could comprehend. this would be science.


for example, say god or you is holding a gun and shooting a piece of paper sparadically, leaving holes of the same size on the paper, at equivilant distances. if you lived on the paper you'd only experience one dimension, and would only see the holes. you couldnt see how they were made. you could infer there size, seperation etc and form a theory, and the theory would appear to explain the holes, but why is there holes at all? how did they get hear? you cant see god shooting at the paper only the result(the holes). we can see the laws, the universe, the creatures but god could be sustaining and perpetuating it. to explain the existence of the universe we have to go outside(multiverse,zero points etc) which by definintion will never allow us to understand why, or how. just like you cant explain why the holes are there unless you were outside looking in.

somebody discovered water but it  wasnt the fishes, explains our dillema. science will be all we ever can use to explain life, unless we are outside, which we are not. you also cant prove the negative like UFOS nor the man on the moon.

god will never be needed to explain things within the universe but my be the only explanation.

[_Morrison_]

i dont even understand your question. theories can be disproved.

if evolution was disproved, it would be by another scietific theory, not god.

if god created here and there, that implys mistakes in the creation, also a rational god as we suppose it is would create rationally or in a manner in which would could comprehend. this would be science.


for example, say god or you is holding a gun and shooting a piece of paper sparadically, leaving holes of the same size on the paper, at equivilant distances. if you lived on the paper you'd only experience one dimension, and would only see the holes. you couldnt see how they were made. you could infer there size, seperation etc and form a theory, and the theory would appear to explain the holes, but why is there holes at all? how did they get hear? you cant see god shooting at the paper only the result(the holes). we can see the laws, the universe, the creatures but god could be sustaining and perpetuating it. to explain the existence of the universe we have to go outside(multiverse,zero points etc) which by definintion will never allow us to understand why, or how. just like you cant explain why the holes are there unless you were outside looking in.

somebody discovered water but it  wasnt the fishes, explains our dillema. science will be all we ever can use to explain life, unless we are outside, which we are not. you also cant prove the negative like UFOS nor the man on the moon.

god will never be needed to explain things within the universe but my be the only explanation.

I wasn't really talking about that.  See, I have a lot of friends who are complete religious nuts.  They believe in heaven and hell, they fear (literally) science, and they tend to put all of their faith in this pneumatic father figure which has yet to be seen or proven.  This is fine, seeing as they seem like they're overall pretty happy with their lives and I don't want to get in the way of that, but whenever I try to talk to them about that kind of stuff, none of them can give me a straight answer except for that "some things are unexplainable", which is also fine.  Except for when I'm talking about something that's been proven like evolution.

And you can't just say, "Oh well the big questions can only be explained by the unexplainable," because by measuring the size of the bulletholes and amount of gunpowder residue on the paper, you can find out where god shot those bullets from, how far away, and when he shot the bullets.  There's always a scientific explanation to everyhting, which may or may not be god's doing I don't know, but I'm asking what arguements do people have other than the fact that it was written in a book a long time ago.  A book that could have just as easily been manipulated and distorted over 2000 years to mean something totally different from the actual point the original was trying to make, I might add.

[Necrosis]

I wasn't really talking about that.  See, I have a lot of friends who are complete religious nuts.  They believe in heaven and hell, they fear (literally) science, and they tend to put all of their faith in this pneumatic father figure which has yet to be seen or proven.  This is fine, seeing as they seem like they're overall pretty happy with their lives and I don't want to get in the way of that, but whenever I try to talk to them about that kind of stuff, none of them can give me a straight answer except for that "some things are unexplainable", which is also fine.  Except for when I'm talking about something that's been proven like evolution.

And you can't just say, "Oh well the big questions can only be explained by the unexplainable," because by measuring the size of the bulletholes and amount of gunpowder residue on the paper, you can find out where god shot those bullets from, how far away, and when he shot the bullets.  There's always a scientific explanation to everyhting, which may or may not be god's doing I don't know, but I'm asking what arguements do people have other than the fact that it was written in a book a long time ago.  A book that could have just as easily been manipulated and distorted over 2000 years to mean something totally different from the actual point the original was trying to make, I might add.

yes if we knew they were in fact bullet holes, and that someone was shooting the bullets. whats outside the universe? how can the universe expand if it is all that exists? what is it expanding into? i dont beleive in the bible, and im an advocate of science as all people with a brain should be. but we will never be privy to other dimensions(sting theory), or things that happened before(even though there was no "before") the big bang. we can only explain and observe our universe. we can only explain the universe by something within to be called science, and to be held to the scientific method. even if we knew all the things above about the bullets, the shooter etc etc... we still dont know WHY? there is a shooter. that is why is there anything in the first place. even if everything is explanible you have to venture why is it here? it is equally as likely it could not be here, and there is no law stating something must exist. the example was also faulted because you know what a gun is, hence you can infer its attributes and consequences, whatever a god or gods used to create isnt something we know of or can experience.


theres not always a scientific explanation. if string theory, multiverse, inflation is right we will never know the answer, it would be impossible by definition of universe.

your thread title says arguments against science, which there are none. creationists are retarded and have horrible logic. you can however use science to argue for god. but to argue against science, is just wishful thinking. they say "evolution looks to be wrong, god did it, or creation is the best answer" its not. it has no support, and they have ruled out all other explanations because of there biased views.

[_Morrison_]

yes if we knew they were in fact bullet holes, and that someone was shooting the bullets. whats outside the universe? how can the universe expand if it is all that exists? what is it expanding into? i dont beleive in the bible, and im an advocate of science as all people with a brain should be. but we will never be privy to other dimensions(sting theory), or things that happened before(even though there was no "before") the big bang. we can only explain and observe our universe. we can only explain the universe by something within to be called science, and to be held to the scientific method. even if we knew all the things above about the bullets, the shooter etc etc... we still dont know WHY? there is a shooter. that is why is there anything in the first place. even if everything is explanible you have to venture why is it here? it is equally as likely it could not be here, and there is no law stating something must exist. the example was also faulted because you know what a gun is, hence you can infer its attributes and consequences, whatever a god or gods used to create isnt something we know of or can experience.


theres not always a scientific explanation. if string theory, multiverse, inflation is right we will never know the answer, it would be impossible by definition of universe.

your thread title says arguments against science, which there are none. creationists are retarded and have horrible logic. you can however use science to argue for god. but to argue against science, is just wishful thinking. they say "evolution looks to be wrong, god did it, or creation is the best answer" its not. it has no support, and they have ruled out all other explanations because of there biased views.

Damn straight, dude.

But I'll have to disagree on not all things being explained by science because science is just how everything real works.  If God or whatever actually exists, then I think he/she/it works with a sort of science that's so far beyond our mental capacity that our minds would probably explode.  You're right, though because we'll never really know until we die, but until then, I'll just focus on living.

[Necrosis]

Damn straight, dude.

But I'll have to disagree on not all things being explained by science because science is just how everything real works.  If God or whatever actually exists, then I think he/she/it works with a sort of science that's so far beyond our mental capacity that our minds would probably explode.  You're right, though because we'll never really know until we die, but until then, I'll just focus on living.
[/quote

i beleive we can explain everything in the universe with science. but the metaphysical questions like why is there something insted of nothing, or why change? will never be answered. thus the meaning or intention(if there is one) will never be understood imo. metaphysics means above or beyond physics, hence beyond the scope of science. physics is the the closets science to real reality, and the uncertainty principle rules out or explanation or prediction of events from the jump. life is a huge fucking mystery, but when i think why are we even alive, i get a sense that there is some great answer. random chance strikes me as a larger bet then higher power or purpose.

[_Morrison_]

i beleive we can explain everything in the universe with science. but the metaphysical questions like why is there something insted of nothing, or why change? will never be answered. thus the meaning or intention(if there is one) will never be understood imo. metaphysics means above or beyond physics, hence beyond the scope of science. physics is the the closets science to real reality, and the uncertainty principle rules out or explanation or prediction of events from the jump. life is a huge fucking mystery, but when i think why are we even alive, i get a sense that there is some great answer. random chance strikes me as a larger bet then higher power or purpose.

Everyone tries to make such a huge deal over the meaning of life.

The meaning of life is to live.  Simple as that.

[Necrosis]

Everyone tries to make such a huge deal over the meaning of life.

The meaning of life is to live.  Simple as that.

i would agree, to experience. i also think learning is a big part of life too.

[_Morrison_]

i would agree, to experience. i also think learning is a big part of life too.

Word.

[Mr. Intenseone]

There are more legit arguements against "science" than there are for "science"

http://www.khouse.org/articles_cat/2007/technical/

http://christiananswers.net/creation/home.html

[beatmaster]

creationists say that earth is not older than 6000 years, i mean everything, animals, humans........

does that make sense?

[Necrosis]

none of the creationist arguments make any sense. there are no "arguments against science" as any of those arguments are merely a different theory. also, disproving one theory doesnt make yours correct, you have to provide positive evidence.

creationism is moronic and idiotic. Neo was right, dont go to a christian web site looking for science, cause all you will find is propaganda. for instance, if genetic mutations dont explain random variance, that doesnt mean god did it, it just means we havent found the answer.


Mr intenseone, i see you have  no education in a scietific field, as you wouldnt say there are arguments against science nor would you argue that they hold much water. even if they are right, they still jump to conclusions, and have already made their mind up. present any evidence you want agaisnst science.

creationists annoy the shit out of me with there lies and utter bullshit. when i never knew much about cosmology, they tricked me, until i actually did some reading.

[Mr. Intenseone]

none of the creationist arguments make any sense. there are no "arguments against science" as any of those arguments are merely a different theory. also, disproving one theory doesnt make yours correct, you have to provide positive evidence.

creationism is moronic and idiotic. Neo was right, dont go to a christian web site looking for science, cause all you will find is propaganda. for instance, if genetic mutations dont explain random variance, that doesnt mean god did it, it just means we havent found the answer.


Mr intenseone, i see you have  no education in a scietific field, as you wouldnt say there are arguments against science nor would you argue that they hold much water. even if they are right, they still jump to conclusions, and have already made their mind up. present any evidence you want agaisnst science.

creationists annoy the shit out of me with there lies and utter bullshit. when i never knew much about cosmology, they tricked me, until i actually did some reading.

You know what funny is we can make the same arguement. Even though I'm no more a scientist than you are, there are plenty of explainations that creationists have that science cannot explain, the fact that ANYTHING can be disputed is one thing, but whe "scientists" have no explaination for facts that are presented is another.

I have read some of the science and it's rhetoric, just like when James Cameron claimed to have found the bones of Jesus, when he said to have all this scientific evidence, it was QUICKLY dismissed by other scientists.

BTW, I'm willing to bet you didn't read any of the links I posted did you?

[_Morrison_]

I didn't read the links partly because I am a lazy son of a bitch.  Sorry.

But I do know that creationists believe only what they have been taught to believe at a very young age.  It's no different than brainwashing,

[Camel Jockey]

There are more legit arguements against "science" than there are for "science"

http://www.khouse.org/articles_cat/2007/technical/

http://christiananswers.net/creation/home.html

You are an idiot. Cease using a computer and other things that came about from science. Don't seek scientific treatment if you get cancer or some other illness. 

Every single creationist arguement can be dismantled in debates, as creationism does not rest on any foundation of evidence or measurement. But if some people don't understand stuff like natural selection, then maybe they are better off with creation.

[Camel Jockey]

You know what funny is we can make the same arguement. Even though I'm no more a scientist than you are, there are plenty of explainations that creationists have that science cannot explain, the fact that ANYTHING can be disputed is one thing, but whe "scientists" have no explaination for facts that are presented is another.

How do creationists explain them? On the contrary they don't explain anything. Finding a gap and filling it with god is not an explanation. For example I could say a giant purple dinosaur by the name of John created everything via intelligent design, while this may sound absurd, it actually isn't anymore absurd than you saying some supernatural figure created everything. Only difference between our two theories is that your "god" has been a part of human history probably since the emergence of modern man. It's been taught and hammered into our heads for thousands of years, to the point where it's become natural for us to believe in god.

If everyone had been taught to believe in my purple dinosaur and this had been conditioned onto their heads for thousands of years to the point where it would be customary, then everyone would believe in the purple dinosaur.

[Necrosis]

You know what funny is we can make the same arguement. Even though I'm no more a scientist than you are, there are plenty of explainations that creationists have that science cannot explain, the fact that ANYTHING can be disputed is one thing, but whe "scientists" have no explaination for facts that are presented is another.

I have read some of the science and it's rhetoric, just like when James Cameron claimed to have found the bones of Jesus, when he said to have all this scientific evidence, it was QUICKLY dismissed by other scientists.

BTW, I'm willing to bet you didn't read any of the links I posted did you?

i have a BSC(hons) and am going to med school, so unless you have a degree then no, you are not just as much of a scientist.

but to be honest, you can be self taught and end up with an equivilant amount of knowledge.

what explanations dont they have, and why is your conclusion that god did it? seems like a huge logical jump. i wouldnt be so quick to attach or base some of your beleifs on science that is undetermind, when it changes so will your beliefs.

dude you really dont have a clue, science doesnt operate the way you think it does, and no one is plottin against god, if that is the conclusion, or can be proven so be it. science goes where ever the answers lead them.



please present some of the evidence that cannot be explained, and points to god as the conclusion.

[Mr. Intenseone]

i have a BSC(hons) and am going to med school, so unless you have a degree then no, you are not just as much of a scientist.

but to be honest, you can be self taught and end up with an equivilant amount of knowledge.

what explanations dont they have, and why is your conclusion that god did it? seems like a huge logical jump. i wouldnt be so quick to attach or base some of your beleifs on science that is undetermind, when it changes so will your beliefs.

dude you really dont have a clue, science doesnt operate the way you think it does, and no one is plottin against god, if that is the conclusion, or can be proven so be it. science goes where ever the answers lead them.



please present some of the evidence that cannot be explained, and points to god as the conclusion.

Congrats on the Degrees and med school and when you do finally become a doctor, there will be many unexplained things that I'm sure you will encounter and just because you become a medical doctor (I'm assuming) doesn't mean that you make your point about evolution, i have provided you links that help to present both sides of the argument especially the links for Koinonia House, if you read the articles and listen to Dr. Missler who by the way doesn't preach but brings a scientific and technical explanations to questions people have you might learn something, I'm not saying he will convince you (because your afraid of being convinced) but maybe it will make you think instead of just jumping to conclusions about Christians.........we're not all lunatics!

BTW, you never said what proof you're looking for.

[Wikidudeman]

Seriously.  Are there any?  Because as far as I know, there is no way to disprove things like evolution, extra-terrestrial life (Not UFOs), and Jesus not being white.

Any valid arguements against this?

If a specific scientific idea could not be (in theory) disproved then it would not qualify as being scientific. One of the most important tenants of science is that everything bust be falsifiable in one way or another. This means that there must be some way, in theory, it can be falsified.

Evolution is falsifiable. If we were to find these specific things then Evolution would be proven to be false. Things including a static fossil, something that prevented mutations from occurring or building up or simply an organism that forms without having any ancestors.  E.T. life is not falsifiable and is therefore not scientific. Until we find evidence for E.T. life it can't be said to be truly 'scientific'. It can be examined scientifically and has been for centuries though. When we do find potential evidence of E.T. life then that too must be falsifiable. As far as Jesus goes, he lived in an area where no one was 'white' and there is no evidence at least from the bible that he stood out from his peers in any way. His 'whiteness' comes from European artwork that depicted him that way.

[Necrosis]

Congrats on the Degrees and med school and when you do finally become a doctor, there will be many unexplained things that I'm sure you will encounter and just because you become a medical doctor (I'm assuming) doesn't mean that you make your point about evolution, i have provided you links that help to present both sides of the argument especially the links for Koinonia House, if you read the articles and listen to Dr. Missler who by the way doesn't preach but brings a scientific and technical explanations to questions people have you might learn something, I'm not saying he will convince you (because your afraid of being convinced) but maybe it will make you think instead of just jumping to conclusions about Christians.........we're not all lunatics!

BTW, you never said what proof you're looking for.

im looking for scientific proof that shows god or intelligence created life, and had a hand at progressing life.


look up perry marshall's DNA argument from information theory. this is the only scientific theory i have seen that is creationist. however, it still doesnt prove god did it.

things like irreducibly complex may be a mystery, but that doesnt mean there isnt a mechanism, a natural one that explains it. the conclusio " we cant explain it so god did it" is not correct. it is a conclusion formed before the data was looked at.

and your wrong about me being afraid of the evidence. ive read it. ive argued for it, and agianst it on other forums. its not scientific. also i would be MORE then glad if they proved god existed without a doubt. MORE then glad. i want god to be there, trust. so does everyone else.

[_Morrison_]

If a specific scientific idea could not be (in theory) disproved then it would not qualify as being scientific. One of the most important tenants of science is that everything bust be falsifiable in one way or another. This means that there must be some way, in theory, it can be falsified.

Evolution is falsifiable. If we were to find these specific things then Evolution would be proven to be false. Things including a static fossil, something that prevented mutations from occurring or building up or simply an organism that forms without having any ancestors.  E.T. life is not falsifiable and is therefore not scientific. Until we find evidence for E.T. life it can't be said to be truly 'scientific'. It can be examined scientifically and has been for centuries though. When we do find potential evidence of E.T. life then that too must be falsifiable. As far as Jesus goes, he lived in an area where no one was 'white' and there is no evidence at least from the bible that he stood out from his peers in any way. His 'whiteness' comes from European artwork that depicted him that way.

Evolution has been pretty much proven to be a fact, the only thing that could disprove it would be a "Static fossil" as you put it that is completely separate from the rest of the gene pool.  This, however would obviously point to an E.T. species is one would leave creationism out of the equation.  The only other explanation would be that the creature or organism came from a Galapagos-like place and has millions of years to be so far ahead of the rest, that too is also unlikely yet possible.  Over the course of mankind, we have pretty much explored all the fossils, species, and the like on land (And yet as far as I know we still haven't found a static fossil), the only place that we have left to discover on Earth is the sea, which we have only explored 10% of.

The universe is a big place, and you'd have to be retarded to blindly hold on to the theory that we are the only intelligent life out there because the universe is infinite.  Even if we go beyond what is outside of our galaxy, there will still be something beyond it, and so on and so forth.  What lies beyond the universe as we know it?  I have no idea, but everything that has boundaries has something beyond those boundaries.  There certainly can't be nothing because if there was nothing beyond the boundaries of the universe then the universe wouldn't be the universe now would it?  So how can anyone argue that life aside from humanity is not possible within this seemingly infinite place in which we live?