do the pros and top amateur bb's ever ever not use anything throughout the year?

[Overload]

This idea that the more Gear you take the better you place is ridiculous and no scientifically base. The responce to 750mg of Test is almost identical to 3000g. The only difference is the increase in side effects and a Dramatic decrease of competitive years. This is evedint in the majority of drugs. If your pain has not gone away with 4 aspirins taking 15 is not going to be beneficial -Saturation effect.

Post your prefered cycles.

[Bast000]

that's a lot of cardio, and now that 4000-4500 calories makes sense to me.

[Debussey]

Muscular development does Not exponentially increase with the increase of anabolics. If any thing your results decrease after the  exalting of the receptors. By forcing your internal organs you will start to have a hard time keeping muscle and your ability to lean out will be seriously affected. The increase of a Pro Anabolic Protocol will result in minimal Muscular results.

Are you retarded? Exponential growth is the same as increased returns to scale, which means that twice the amount of anabolics will yield more than twice the amount of results. Given the example you tried to examplify, you can not say "exponential growth" dumbass.

Even though the marginal results from anabolics diminishes after a certain "top average results per milligram of juice" amount, there will still be more total results to get, even though you'll get decreasing returns to scale/diminishing marginal results.

To put it simply, juice gives you this equilibrium:

A certain amounts of juice = a certain amounts of muscle

Once you've gotten everything possible out of a certain amount of juice, no extra results can be obtained without increasing the dose.

Increase the amount of juice, and you will get more muscle, even though the marginal benefits from the marginal amounts of juice will diminish once the "top average results from juice" amount is surpassed.

[Lee_a_priest]

yeah that 2-3 hours of cardio probably burns an extra 700-800 calories at least but whoa whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! did you say 8800 mg. of juice per week? holy shit.

sorry no i meant 800mgs...i might be crazy but i ain't that crazy

[Tamer Razor]

Are you retarded? Exponential growth is the same as increased returns to scale, which means that twice the amount of anabolics will yield more than twice the amount of results. Given the example you tried to examplify, you can not say "exponential growth" dumbass.

Even though the marginal results from anabolics diminishes after a certain "top average results per milligram of juice" amount, there will still be more total results to get, even though you'll get decreasing returns to scale/diminishing marginal results.

To put it simply, juice gives you this equilibrium:

A certain amounts of juice = a certain amounts of muscle

Once you've gotten everything possible out of a certain amount of juice, no extra results can be obtained without increasing the dose.

Increase the amount of juice, and you will get more muscle, even though the marginal benefits from the marginal amounts of juice will diminish once the "top average results from juice" amount is surpassed.

It is extremely difficult to discuss with someone with such a low level of education and ignorance, but I will attempt.

1- Once the receptor levels are exhaust no convertian is any longer possible, results at the point are insignificant.
2-When you say " increase the amount of juice , and you will get more muscle" shows your complete ignorance and lack of understanding in BB. Please do not discuss a subject you are totally ignorant about it.
3-Please go to the sex forum other board that is more comparable to your level of intelligence

[Debussey]

It is extremely difficult to discuss with someone with such a low level of education and ignorance, but I will attempt.

1- Once the receptor levels are exhaust no convertian is any longer possible, results at the point are insignificant.
2-When you say " increase the amount of juice , and you will get more muscle" shows your complete ignorance and lack of understanding in BB. Please do not discuss a subject you are totally ignorant about it.
3-Please go to the sex forum other board that is more comparable to your level of intelligence

1: How can you claim that you are educated, when you clearly show that you can not comprehend high school mathematics?   THAT is by definition being a fucking retard. `Did you drop out of high school?
2: You only bring subjective views to the discussion, and label them as "proof" of the other debatant being ignorant. This by definition is not logic, and you have proven yourself to lack the necessary mental abilities to debate rationally.
3: You have not given any substance for your arguments, except "you know nothing about BB". What you are saying is that if you BELIEVE in science, then you do not know anything about BB, which in other words means that you say "science has nothing to do with BB", which tells DEbussey that you are even dumber than DEbussey thought.

According to you, 750 mg of juice would give the same effect as 3 grams would, even though mathematical laws would dictate a marginal effect from the 2,25 extra grams, simply because it is backed up by anecdotal evidence, and because you can not claim 100% receptor saturation with 750 mgs. Claiming NO MARGINAL BENEFIT from 400% of the original dosage = stupidity.   PS: Insignificant does not mean "lack of marginal benefit"

Unless you have done a controlled study with different amounts of steroids, your "saturation" argument is nothing but a BB fairy tale, and when used on the 400% dose example you used: Pure and utter stupidity.

Can you verify your claim?

If so, you must also back up your anecdotal evidence with other BB's experiences. By your words, this means that the Mr.O contendants also use small amounts, yet do they?

So far, DEbussey has proven that:

- You can not comprehend high school mathematics
- You claim scientific laws has no meaning (this is directly implicated by your argumentation, thus, you are in reality claiming it)
- Your WEAK argument about "receptor saturation" has not been backed up.
- You try to argument with your "experience", which so far has proven that you suck.
- You claim that the JUICE EQUILIBRIUM = BS. Prove it (because you can't, not with the amounts you wrote about..)


Good luck bringing something useful to this discussion, so far you have lost, because of your stupidity.


 

[War-Horse]

Evil angel makes more sense.  If the gas tank in your car holds 12 gallons, then putting 20 gallons in, will only make your shoes wet, and smell of gas.

Some guys probably need more gear to overcome their poor genetics and lack of fast twitch fibers.

[Debussey]

Evil angel makes more sense.  If the gas tank in your car holds 12 gallons, then putting 20 gallons in, will only make your shoes wet, and smell of gas.

Some guys probably need more gear to overcome their poor genetics and lack of fast twitch fibers.

No, he does not, because his claim of the size of the gas tank = wrong. If he had used a lot higher doses in his example, then yes, he might be onto something.

At the same time, show Debussey ONE study that claims the body can be "saturated" with the ease that EA claims. If no such evidence is shown, all he has is the subjective consensus of a stupid legion of bodybuilders.

The saturation point would of course be when marginal increase in dose drags the total benefit down, yet, when this point occurs can not be found with ease, yet "EA" claims it as a truth that is so strong that it makes other people "stupid". His original claim was that X and 4X the dose would give approx equal results for most people, when X = 750 mg

400 mg roids can support X amounts of muscle.

2 grams of roids can support more than X amounts of muscle, and the increase in X can not be called "insignificant".

Thus, we have a "juice equilibrium" between the amount of exogenous hormones and the amount of achieveable musclemass.
Thus, his principle MIGHT be right, yet he:

- Fail to use any rational proof to back it up.
- Fail at even the simplest logic.
- Use anecdotal evidence that contradicts what his mentors claim (including Milos).

Thus, there is a marginal benefit from increasing the dosage (even though it is diminishing after a certain dose), and thus, "EvilAngel" = wrong.

In other words, EvilAngel might have the right key to his home, yet he uses it on the neighbors door, and can not get into the winning zone.

 

[Tamer Razor]

1: How can you claim that you are educated, when you clearly show that you can not comprehend high school mathematics?   THAT is by definition being a fucking retard. `Did you drop out of high school?
2: You only bring subjective views to the discussion, and label them as "proof" of the other debatant being ignorant. This by definition is not logic, and you have proven yourself to lack the necessary mental abilities to debate rationally.
3: You have not given any substance for your arguments, except "you know nothing about BB". What you are saying is that if you BELIEVE in science, then you do not know anything about BB, which in other words means that you say "science has nothing to do with BB", which tells DEbussey that you are even dumber than DEbussey thought.

According to you, 750 mg of juice would give the same effect as 3 grams would, even though mathematical laws would dictate a marginal effect from the 2,25 extra grams, simply because it is backed up by anecdotal evidence, and because you can not claim 100% receptor saturation with 750 mgs. Claiming NO MARGINAL BENEFIT from 400% of the original dosage = stupidity.   PS: Insignificant does not mean "lack of marginal benefit"

Unless you have done a controlled study with different amounts of steroids, your "saturation" argument is nothing but a BB fairy tale, and when used on the 400% dose example you used: Pure and utter stupidity.

Can you verify your claim?

If so, you must also back up your anecdotal evidence with other BB's experiences. By your words, this means that the Mr.O contendants also use small amounts, yet do they?

So far, DEbussey has proven that:

- You can not comprehend high school mathematics
- You claim scientific laws has no meaning (this is directly implicated by your argumentation, thus, you are in reality claiming it)
- Your WEAK argument about "receptor saturation" has not been backed up.
- You try to argument with your "experience", which so far has proven that you suck.
- You claim that the JUICE EQUILIBRIUM = BS. Prove it (because you can't, not with the amounts you wrote about..)


Good luck bringing something useful to this discussion, so far you have lost, because of your stupidity.


 

Debussey,

You have convience all of us. We should use as much Steroids as possible to gain more muscle.  
The increase of Steroids after reaching receptors exaltion no only will not yield additional results will be detrimental to muscle gain. Cold symptoms, inflammation and deterioration of internal organs function directly impare protein synthesis.
The increase of ANY,ANY drug dosages does not increase the drugs effects. This is Medical Fact. Base on your statements Doctors should prescribe as much as the person possibly consume.
The examples in science are evident. Vitamin A, K, Iron...taking in excess could case severe damage. And again this are just Vitamins...Water could kill in excess. Your level of ignorance is absurd to say the least.
Steroids like any other Drug will assist the increase of muscle mass until a point, like state before  Its excess not only  will stop assisting the increase of muscle mass, It will be detrimental to it.

[Debussey]

Debussey,

You have convience all of us. We should use as much Steroids as possible to gain more muscle.  
The increase of Steroids after reaching receptors exaltion no only will not yield additional results will be detrimental to muscle gain. Cold symptoms, inflammation and deterioration of internal organs function directly impare protein synthesis.
The increase of ANY,ANY drug dosages does not increase the drugs effects. This is Medical Fact. Base on your statements Doctors should prescribe as much as the person possibly consume.
The examples in science are evident. Vitamin A, K, Iron...taking in excess could case severe damage. And again this are just Vitamins...Water could kill in excess. Your level of ignorance is absurd to say the least.
Steroids like any other Drug will assist the increase of muscle mass until a point, like state before  Its excess not only  will stop assisting the increase of muscle mass, It will be detrimental to it.

You are making wrong assumptions because you can not comprehend what DEbussey wrote.

1: Diminishing marginal results means that the results from more roids is there, but it will diminish and eventually bring the total results down.
-> Yet you still claim that DEbussey say: "more is always better". Do you have reading problems or something? Debussey say 1, and you read it as 2

2: What Debussey wrote was that your statement about "insignificant" results between 750 and 3000 mg were wrong, very wrong.
-> If you could actually READ and UNDERSTAND before you gave an answer, you would see that what Debussey wrote was this: 750 mg might give you 100 units of new muscle, while 3000 mg might give you 150 or 200 units of new muscle. Do you see? The marginal benefit = decreasing, but the difference between 100 and 150 or 200 = not insignificant.

3: Debussey never claimed that more = just as safe, this is an assumption you make. Have you ever learnt that if you read 2 + 2 = 4, does not mean that you also can claim you read 10+9 = 19? 



Debussey can agree with you on many of the things you are writing, yet, when you answer 5 to the question 1 + 2 = ?, then you gotta understand, that even though 5 is the correct answer to something, it is not the answer being asked for.

You debate with a psychology curriculum, when the topic of the day is physics. 

[War-Horse]

This is the new "Hulkster Im calling for a truce" thread.

[Debussey]

This is the new "Hulkster Im calling for a truce" thread.

No, this is trying to teach a dog things most 15 year olds can comprehend.

[Tamer Razor]

The alteration of the bodies natural balance is extremely complicated. Changing the body's equation must be simplified to identify results. Excess use of Drugs is one of the biggest misconceptions in BB fans. As Mike Matarrazo said" Look at the Olympia audience, they are taking more gear than the Pro's competing tonight"
It is so common to hear fans in indignation no believing what the Pros take ...such as Lee because he must be Hidden something. He can not get that big just taking that. To deny the benefits of Steroids is pure stupid, but to believe that more is better is even worse.

[Debussey]

The alteration of the bodies natural balance is extremely complicated. Changing the body's equation must be simplified to identify results. Excess use of Drugs is one of the biggest misconceptions in BB fans. As Mike Matarrazo said" Look at the Olympia audience, they are taking more gear than the Pro's competing tonight"
It is so common to hear fans in indignation no believing what the Pros take ...such as Lee because he must be Hidden something. He can not get that big just taking that. To deny the benefits of Steroids is pure stupid, but to believe that more is better is even worse.

Where did Debussey write this?   You know that "better" is a subjective statement, right, which means that you are thinking in normative terms, while DEbussey = asking you to give your opinion about a positive statement.

Do you agree with the diminishing incremental benefit statement? -> You have avoided this question all along. Please give an answer.

Do you think you have the ability to determine the "saturation" dose? (which is the dose when the incremental benefit turns negative, or when it is zero)

You are still not talking about what we are discussing, you are actually talking about something completely else

Do you lack the ability to UNDERSTAND simple things? Did you graduate from High School? Do you still believe "exponental growth" is what you think it is?

[Tamer Razor]

Where did Debussey write this?  

You are still not talking about what we are discussing.

Do you lack the ability to UNDERSTAND simple things? Did you graduate from High School?

The Normal recommend dosage of test is 500g to 1000g weekly. This recommendation is universal in the BB community. You must be a new Genius with your recommendation of 3000mg weekly.
Again, 3000g of test a weekly not only is less effective that 750mg is detrimental to muscle gain. But you are more that welcome to try it and let us know. I will bet you be calling a doctor with symptom of severe fever in the second week.

[Big N]

Smart BB come off in order to clean receptors outs.

Come off of what? Milk? 

[Debussey]

The Normal recommend dosage of test is 500g to 1000g weekly. This recommendation is universal in the BB community. You must be a new Genius with your recommendation of 3000mg weekly.
Again, 3000g of test a weekly not only is less effective that 750mg is detrimental to muscle gain. But you are more that welcome to try it and let us know. I will bet you be calling a doctor with symptom of severe fever in the second week.

Why did you avoid the 2 simple questions Debussey wanted an answer to?? Those two questions = the only thing Debussey wanted you to answer.

[Debussey]

The Normal recommend dosage of test is 500g to 1000g weekly. This recommendation is universal in the BB community. You must be a new Genius with your recommendation of 3000mg weekly.
Again, 3000g of test a weekly not only is less effective that 750mg is detrimental to muscle gain. But you are more that welcome to try it and let us know. I will bet you be calling a doctor with symptom of severe fever in the second week.

When did Debussey recommend 3000 mg weekly? Debussey did not. Once again: 1 + 1 = 2, and you think it is 5 and run with it. 

[War-Horse]

Im glad im a drug free competitor.   This crap is a waste of time....kind of like typing for getbig.

[Tamer Razor]

Again I am done with it.

750g=100units of muscle
3000g=75 units of muscle

The body has a limit level of absorption. I do not understand why this simple Medical fact is so difficult to you.

Well you are the Guru

Good Night

[Debussey]

Again I am done with it.

750g=100units of muscle
3000g=75 units of muscle

The body has a limit level of absorption. I do not understand why this simple Medical fact is so difficult to you.

Well you are the Guru

Good Night

Prove this "medical fact". 

In reality, Debussey does not give a shit, but teaching you high school mathematics was fun.





PS: Once you smarten up, attend a college and learn something useful. Starting with the defenition of "exponential growth" might be a good thing. 

[Lee_a_priest]

Prove this "medical fact". 

In reality, Debussey does not give a shit, but teaching you high school mathematics was fun.





PS: Once you smarten up, attend a college and learn something useful. Starting with the defenition of "exponential growth" might be a good thing. 

JUST POST YOUR PIC SO WE CAN SEE OF WHAT YOU SPEAK AND HOW HUGE YOU ARE FROM THE DRUGS .............

[War-Horse]

JUST POST YOUR PIC SO WE CAN SEE OF WHAT YOU SPEAK AND HOW HUGE YOU ARE FROM THE DRUGS .............

Hahahaha....end of story.

[bigbobs]

The Normal recommend dosage of test is 500g to 1000g weekly. This recommendation is universal in the BB community. You must be a new Genius with your recommendation of 3000mg weekly.
Again, 3000g of test a weekly not only is less effective that 750mg is detrimental to muscle gain. But you are more that welcome to try it and let us know. I will bet you be calling a doctor with symptom of severe fever in the second week.

Evil Angel, if one is to take test at the top of the range, i.e 1000 mg per week--is there any point of stacking anything else like deca, dbol, etc on top of that?  Or is 1000 mg of test per week already at the max level of absorption and anything over that will not increase muscle gain?

[Moen]

Again I am done with it.

750g=100units of muscle
3000g=75 units of muscle

The body has a limit level of absorption. I do not understand why this simple Medical fact is so difficult to you.

Well you are the Guru

Good Night

You seem to be really convinced on what you state so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not automatically assume you are a naive idiot.

But, the saturation point theory is completely logical, that I have no trouble accepting.

But saturation does not equate to deminisence (hope this word exists lol) which is what you're talking about now.

I can complely follow you on the once you get past a certain point the results will be proportionally smaller with higher doses, but please explain the deminishing results because I really dont see that happening to be honest