US Church backs same-sex marriage

[Mr. Intenseone]

I have a child.  I sure as hell don't want him growing up in a world where men hold hands and women get married.  I don't want that, not one bit.  it's disgusting to me, personally.

However, I know that in this world, you cannot control what others do or feel.  I also know that I'm more concerned with paying the mortgage (and therefore issues with the economy and oil) than I am with wondering whether the men living next door have a piece of paper or not (gay marriage issues).

Hey, I realize you cannot control how people think and feel, but when it becomes publically addressed on TV, Radio and the Net then it becomes a problem, I am FAR from being a homophobe but just don't push it on our kids and when you have blatantly put on the public airways for all to see, thats not a good thing IMO, I have gay friends and clients who are awesome people, but are not flamboyant and don't push they're sexuality on anyone.

[Mr. Intenseone]

Bush told us it was pre-emptive.  The Bush doctrine is VERY clear - we will attack nations with military force when we perceive them to be a potential threat.  If they have the means (proven or suspected) and we believe their intentions are unpure (proven or suspected) we will attack with any means including nuclear.

In light of this, I ask you again:
What is God's word on pre-emptively killing a man because he MIGHT try to harm you SOMEDAY?

Show me where he said it was pre-emptive.

[240 is Back]

Homosexuality is a strange issue.

I don't know if you can "choose" to be turned on by one gender or another.  Since I was little, I get aroused by females.  Like most of us men here, I'm sure  I've never been aroused by a man.  Like most of us here again, I'm sure.  I am built, genetically, to get hard around women.  Like most of us.  

From what I've seen on the subject, homosexuals *do* get turned on by those of the same sex, and not the opposite.  IMO that isn't a choice, it's just how they're wired.  We can't know.  Cause we're not in their shoes.  

I would never want to deny another human being that which turns him/her on (between consenting adults).  If John Doe gets off with vanilla sex with his wife, so be it.  If Jane Doe gets off 69ing with her hot lesbian girlfriend, so be it.  We're all carbon based miracles, and we all check out unexpectedly.  Why not let people enjoy moments of pleasure and bliss as their bodies determine fit?

[240 is Back]

Hey, I realize you cannot control how people think and feel, but when it becomes publically addressed on TV, Radio and the Net then it becomes a problem, I am FAR from being a homophobe but just don't push it on our kids and when you have blatantly put on the public airways for all to see, thats not a good thing IMO, I have gay friends and clients who are awesome people, but are not flamboyant and don't push they're sexuality on anyone.

I agree, but if it's on TV, it's because enouigh people watch to make it viable with the ratings.  I turn it off, but aparrently, many people do not.

[ieffinhatecardio]

Hey, I realize you cannot control how people think and feel, but when it becomes publically addressed on TV, Radio and the Net then it becomes a problem, I am FAR from being a homophobe but just don't push it on our kids and when you have blatantly put on the public airways for all to see, thats not a good thing IMO, I have gay friends and clients who are awesome people, but are not flamboyant and don't push they're sexuality on anyone.

I'm curious why everyone is so afraid of children being exposed to homosexuality. Are you afraid that they will want to be homosexuals or that homosexuals will try and abuse them? What is the harm in children seeing that there are homosexuals in the world? This argument seems filled with hate to me, as if keeping children sheltered from reality will save you from having a homosexual child.

In answer to your earlier question, I do not have children. I do have a woman in my life whose biological clock is ticking like a time bomb though so that won't be the case for long. I also have two God Children and 7 nephews that I am very close to. I realize that is not the same as having my own children. Although my siblings (who have children) all feel the same way I do. It's none of our business and we really couldn't care less if two men or two women want to get married. And my brother can't stand "pickle smokers and pillow biters" LOL, curiously he's also a Republican. 

[Mr. Intenseone]

I agree, but if it's on TV, it's because enouigh people watch to make it viable with the ratings.  I turn it off, but aparrently, many people do not.

But Rob, It's on TV, the news, the newspaper, on magazine covers in magazine racks, they are teaching it in schools (public) soon it will be damn near impossible to get away from.

[240 is Back]

But Rob, It's on TV, the news, the newspaper, on magazine covers in magazine racks, they are teaching it in schools (public) soon it will be damn near impossible to get away from.

I don't like it.  I change the channel.  But the problem is, the MAJORITY OF PEOPLE watch it when it's on their television.  Ratings show this - the majority don't turn the channel.  They watch and complain - but they watch.

Which leads us to an interesting question:  If the majority (51% of more) of people will watch it - what right do the other 49% (the minority) to tell the majority what to do/watch?

[Mr. Intenseone]

I'm curious why everyone is so afraid of children being exposed to homosexuality. Are you afraid that they will want to be homosexuals or that homosexuals will try and abuse them? What is the harm in children seeing that there are homosexuals in the world? This argument seems filled with hate to me, as if keeping children sheltered from reality will save you from having a homosexual child.

In answer to your earlier question, I do not have children. I do have a woman in my life whose biological clock is ticking like a time bomb though so that won't be the case for long. I also have two God Children and 7 nephews that I am very close to. I realize that is not the same as having my own children. Although my siblings (who have children) all feel the same way I do. It's none of our business and we really couldn't care less if two men or two women want to get married. And my brother can't stand "pickle smokers and pillow biters" LOL, curiously he's also a Republican. 

Personally I have no problem with gay people, it's their perogitive, the problem I have is when they push it on our children like it's a normal part life to have sex with the same gender, to be blunt, it's not normal nor did God create an anal hole to be entered by another man.

Plus as a Christian, it's not right.

[Mr. Intenseone]

I don't like it.  I change the channel.  But the problem is, the MAJORITY OF PEOPLE watch it when it's on their television.  Ratings show this - the majority don't turn the channel.  They watch and complain - but they watch.

Which leads us to an interesting question:  If the majority (51% of more) of people will watch it - what right do the other 49% (the minority) to tell the majority what to do/watch?

I'm not only talking about TV.

[240 is Back]

Show me where he said it was pre-emptive.

National Security Council said it on 9/20/2001:

The Bush Doctrine argues for a policy of pre-emptive war in cases where the US or its allies be threatened by terrorists or by rogue states that are engaged in the production of weapons of mass destruction. The policy of pre-emption represents a rejection of deterrence and containment as the principal foundations of U.S. foreign policy because, it is argued, terrorists cannot be deterred in the same way as states.

In light of this, I ask you again:
What is God's word on pre-emptively killing a man because he MIGHT try to harm you SOMEDAY?

[ieffinhatecardio]

Personally I have no problem with gay people, it's their perogitive, the problem I have is when they push it on our children like it's a normal part life to have sex with the same gender, to be blunt, it's not normal nor did God create an anal hole to be entered by another man.

Plus as a Christian, it's not right.

You didn't really answer my question though. Why are you so afraid of children knowing homosexuality exists?

[Cap]

What is God's word on pre-emptively killing a man because he MIGHT try to harm you SOMEDAY?

-Just cause. War is permissible only to confront "a real and certain danger," i.e., to protect innocent life, to preserve conditions necessary for decent human existence and to secure basic human rights.

-Probability of success. This is a difficult criterion to apply, but its purpose is to prevent irrational resort to force or hopeless resistance when the outcome of either will clearly be disproportionate or futile.

-Proportionality. This means that the damage to be inflicted and the costs incurred by war must be proportionate to the good expected by taking up arms.

I think we went into the war with these things in mind.

[Mr. Intenseone]

You didn't really answer my question though. Why are you so or other so afraid of children knowing homosexuality exists?

I'm can't be afraid of something I can't avoid, he knows it exists!

[240 is Back]

Mr I,

you're not gonna answer that one, are you? 

[240 is Back]

-Just cause. War is permissible only to confront "a real and certain danger," i.e., to protect innocent life, to preserve conditions necessary for decent human existence and to secure basic human rights.

-Probability of success. This is a difficult criterion to apply, but its purpose is to prevent irrational resort to force or hopeless resistance when the outcome of either will clearly be disproportionate or futile.

-Proportionality. This means that the damage to be inflicted and the costs incurred by war must be proportionate to the good expected by taking up arms.

I think we went into the war with these things in mind.

These are the LEGAL and practical reasons we went into war.

Guess what - Abortion is legal.  is it MORALLY RIGHT?  Most say NO.




I want to know... where in the bible the Lord tells us that it is okay to pre-emptively kill a man (or groups of men) for sins they have not yet committed.

[Mr. Intenseone]

Mr I,

you're not gonna answer that one, are you? 

Which one, I'm all over the place.......ADD you know !

[240 is Back]

Which one, I'm all over the place.......ADD you know !

the one i keep asking:

National Security Council said it on 9/20/2001:

The Bush Doctrine argues for a policy of pre-emptive war in cases where the US or its allies be threatened by terrorists or by rogue states that are engaged in the production of weapons of mass destruction. The policy of pre-emption represents a rejection of deterrence and containment as the principal foundations of U.S. foreign policy because, it is argued, terrorists cannot be deterred in the same way as states.

In light of this, I ask you again:
What is God's word on pre-emptively killing a man because he MIGHT try to harm you SOMEDAY?

[Cap]

These are the LEGAL and practical reasons we went into war.

Guess what - Abortion is legal.  is it MORALLY RIGHT?  Most say NO.

I want to know... where in the bible the Lord tells us that it is okay to pre-emptively kill a man (or groups of men) for sins they have not yet committed.

That's actually part of the Just War theory. 

[240 is Back]

I want to hear Mr I - who has said that liberals cannot be christian - to tell us all (and the Lord listening), that God endorses killing a human being who has not committed any sin against you.

I want him to stand before his Lord and state for everyone that it is morally RIGHT to slit a man's throat or put a bullet in his head for something he might do in 5, 10,15 years, or never.



I ask this because I do not believe he will.  And when he won't take this position, he will begin to see the conflict that exists between the basic tenets of his religion and his party, to which both he shows great loyalty.  One he sees that, he might just come around.

Simply put, I will stand before my God and my fmaily, and state that pre-emptively killing a man for crimes uncommitted is wrong.  Will he?

[Mr. Intenseone]

I want to hear Mr I - who has said that liberals cannot be christian - to tell us all (and the Lord listening), that God endorses killing a human being who has not committed any sin against you.

I want him to stand before his Lord and state for everyone that it is morally RIGHT to slit a man's throat or put a bullet in his head for something he might do in 5, 10,15 years, or never.



I ask this because I do not believe he will.  And when he won't take this position, he will begin to see the conflict that exists between the basic tenets of his religion and his party, to which both he shows great loyalty.  One he sees that, he might just come around.

Simply put, I will stand before my God and my fmaily, and state that pre-emptively killing a man for crimes uncommitted is wrong.  Will he?

Gotta think about this, it's a tough one...........but one thing, are you saying that we attacked an innocent Government?

[Dos Equis]

Probably the same version as you

What's your point?

I thought you didn't discuss and/or debate religion?  No . . . wait. . . Never mind. 

My point is obvious.  There are black, white, and gray areas in the Bible.  Condemnation of homosexuality falls into the black and white area.  It's a no brainer.  I can't understand for the life of me why homosexual marriage would even be debated in a church that follows the Bible. 

[240 is Back]

Gotta think about this, it's a tough one...........but one thing, are you saying that we attacked an innocent Government?

I respect this answer.

It's not just iraq - it's any nation.  Bush Doctrine says he could decide to hit targets in Iran, Lebanon, and Syria any morning if he wants.  Many believe iit is the reason many repubs ran from the party - because it violates their religious beliefs.

[egj13]

I love it.

There are probably thousands of uptight neotaint Catholics punching the wall because of this situation.

Ouch, it's got to hurt when all your hate isn't adopted by everyone that follows your religion.

Perhaps all the parishioners and all the clergy of this particular church are going to burn in eternal hellfire. 

They will be judged someday. I know myself, I don't care what 2 people do, I just don't want future generations to believe that being homosexual is natural. As soon as 2 men/women find a way to procreate I will be the first in line to say I was wrong.

[Straw Man]

"So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."
—Genesis 1:27 (NKJV)

"And the LORD God said, 'It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.' Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. And Adam said: 'This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.' Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."
—Genesis 2:18-25 (NKJV)

Most Liberals go against this, abortion, etc, yet they call themselves CHRISTIANS, although we I know and realize that we are all sinners, true Christians show repent for their sins, MOST of the Liberals I have seen and heard actually advocate these actions that go against God's word.

There's nothing in either of those quotes that explicitly admonishes against homosexuality.

IO  - Do you take the bible literally? If not, how do you decide what things to ignore?

[ieffinhatecardio]

They will be judged someday. I know myself, I don't care what 2 people do, I just don't want future generations to believe that being homosexual is natural. As soon as 2 men/women find a way to procreate I will be the first in line to say I was wrong.

Unless you believe homosexuality is a choice then nature created homosexuals. If nature created them how are they not natural?

If you truly didn't care what two men/women do then you wouldn't care if "future generations" believe their existence is natural or not. Overall though I'm glad to see the tone of your post is mellow. As I've said a hundred times I respect and applaud anyone's right to dislike and voice displeasure with homosexuality. It's the desire to control how they can live that I question.