Dickerson

[pkaz]

After you read this guys take on bodybuilding history , you need to know the facts.

FACT . . . Calcium deposits on elbows.

The Beef

Thanks "The Beef". That is what I thought and stated above based on what I remember way back when..

[jpm101]

Calcium deposits can be drained or removed (either thick liquid or in a a harden form) from most areas of the body, including the elbows (easier when they are external, rather than internal). Calcium deposits are usually a lumpy, unshaped  mass, not something that would come to a exact point on an elbow. And on both sides of the elbows, at that, at the same time. Any ego driven top BB'er would certainly have any such calcium deposits removed, because it can detract from the rest of a otherwise balance body. Removing unnatural bone growth is another matter all together.

Introduced heavy use of GH (in any of it's many forms) can cause an outward extension of bone growth on the elbows. The gland(s) are falsely stimulated or tricked into doing this, as a part a many chemical changes/imbalances and other elements involved. GH with affect other boney regions of some top BB'ers and athletes. Besides extended elbows, look for heavy jaw lines, enlarged heads and heavy brows. People talk about Berry Bonds head getting larger every year, for example. Must be a reason for this, even though he swore under oath he never came near or used any illegal growth drugs.

Dickerson shows the classic progression from the effect of GH and/or other chemical elements.
 Fairly plan to see. Call it calcium deposits or whatever, if that makes one feel better about it. But it all come to the plan fact of a negative GH influence.

[pkaz]

Calcium deposits can be drained or removed (either thick liquid or in a a harden form) from most areas of the body, including the elbows (easier when they are external, rather than internal). Calcium deposits are usually a lumpy, unshaped  mass, not something that would come to a exact point on an elbow. And on both sides of the elbows, at that, at the same time. Any ego driven top BB'er would certainly have any such calcium deposits removed, because it can detract from the rest of a otherwise balance body. Removing unnatural bone growth is another matter all together.

Introduced heavy use of GH (in any of it's many forms) can cause an outward extension of bone growth on the elbows. The gland(s) are falsely stimulated or tricked into doing this, as a part a many chemical changes/imbalances and other elements involved. GH with affect other boney regions of some top BB'ers and athletes. Besides extended elbows, look for heavy jaw lines, enlarged heads and heavy brows. People talk about Berry Bonds head getting larger every year, for example. Must be a reason for this, even though he swore under oath he never came near or used any illegal growth drugs.

Dickerson shows the classic progression from the effect of GH and/or other chemical elements.
 Fairly plan to see. Call it calcium deposits or whatever, if that makes one feel better about it. But it all come to the plan fact of a negative GH influence.

Maybe maybe not. It is an interesting question though. My experience with Dr. Kerr, as stated above, was in itself an interesting experience. GH was not all that prevalent when Dickerson won the Mr. Olympia and Dr. Kerr, at least from my experience and what he told me he had Dickerson on was moderately low dose (by todays doses at least). But who really knows.

Another interesting point is based on the extreme levels of performance drugs today, including GH, we do not see more of that particular problem. But then again, there was cadaver-GH being used prior to 1981 so one only wonders...

[Figo]

Maybe maybe not. It is an interesting question though. My experience with Dr. Kerr, as stated above, was in itself an interesting experience. GH was not all that prevalent when Dickerson won the Mr. Olympia and Dr. Kerr, at least from my experience and what he told me he had Dickerson on was moderately low dose (by todays doses at least). But who really knows.

Another interesting point is based on the extreme levels of performance drugs today, including GH, we do not see more of that particular problem. But then again, there was cadaver-GH being used prior to 1981 so one only wonders...

Maybe Dickerson was predisposed and with the wrong stimulus, it developed.

Wheres that cycle you promised, pkaz , this thread was about what he took, and it became about elbow development via gh. Lets just say he had really big elbows...

[jpm101]

Pkaz: It really does come down to maybe or maybe not, in Dickersons case. Pure speculation on my part with regard to him personally. But a somewhat experienced guess on my part would be his connection to GH (and other qualities that can mimic their affect) in the past. I would like to think that earlier era BB'ers were pure and drug free, but that's not always the case.  That after pic of him (from Donrhummy)  (with the knobs of both elbows, shooting up skyward like a rocket from a launch pad) pretty much said it all for me.

Your story about Dr Kerr was very interesting. Wonder, if you have the time, to give some more examples about stuff that was going on, with regards to BB'ing, in the past? Heard the highway to TJ, Tecate and Mexicali was pretty popular with BB'ers at that time.

[Figo]

Yes, pkaz do share...

[pkaz]

Maybe Dickerson was predisposed and with the wrong stimulus, it developed.

Wheres that cycle you promised, pkaz , this thread was about what he took, and it became about elbow development via gh. Lets just say he had really big elbows...

Figo,

As soon as I have a chance I will pull out some of my old journals and try to find what I promised. As it has been many years I need to do some searching. Will try this weekend.

[pkaz]

Pkaz: It really does come down to maybe or maybe not, in Dickersons case. Pure speculation on my part with regard to him personally. But a somewhat experienced guess on my part would be his connection to GH (and other qualities that can mimic their affect) in the past. I would like to think that earlier era BB'ers were pure and drug free, but that's not always the case.  That after pic of him (from Donrhummy)  (with the knobs of both elbows, shooting up skyward like a rocket from a launch pad) pretty much said it all for me.

Your story about Dr Kerr was very interesting. Wonder, if you have the time, to give some more examples about stuff that was going on, with regards to BB'ing, in the past? Heard the highway to TJ, Tecate and Mexicali was pretty popular with BB'ers at that time.

jmp101,

I will only speak about my experiences with the "highway to TJ" so here goes. After learning more and more about performance enhancing drugs (AS) and there availability, which was relatively easy, I made many to TJ. Since I live in Southern California, TJ was the easiest place to go. At that time, you could get American made pharmaceutical grade AS cheep. You would walk into just about any Pharmacy in TJ and inquire about AS. The pharmacist would bring out boxes of whatever you wanted. Some of the popular ones then were:

Ciba Dianabol
Searle Anavar
Winthrop Winstrol
Schering Primobolan Depot
Organon Deca-Durabolin
Mexican Sustanon 250
Depo-Testosterone

It was easy to buy and easy to bring home. Additionally, you could get pretty much whatever you wanted from gym sources, however, the prices were higher as you would expect.

I will also say that the doses being used at least by myself and those that I knew were mild compared to today. For bulking, it was basically Deca and Dianabol. The various testosterones were being used more by the power lifters. And length of use was shorter. Most guys that I knew would use for 12 week periods and then off. They would maybe do two or three cycles through the year.

In the mid 80s what were called designer steroids became available. The premise was that they were from East Germany but in reality they were manufactured in clandestine labs in the US. Bolasterone was one that had a big following and it was basically being manufactured in someones kitchen.

I will also say that generally all Bodybuilders, especially ones that competed, were using some type of AS but obviously nothing like today.

[Hurricane Beef !]

This tread was enjoyable. It's nice to see an adult discussion on GetBig.

The Beef

[donrhummy]

This tread was enjoyable. It's nice to see an adult discussion on GetBig.

The Beef

Agreed.

[Figo]

...does that mean its over? 

[onlyme]

jmp101,

I will only speak about my experiences with the "highway to TJ" so here goes. After learning more and more about performance enhancing drugs (AS) and there availability, which was relatively easy, I made many to TJ. Since I live in Southern California, TJ was the easiest place to go. At that time, you could get American made pharmaceutical grade AS cheep. You would walk into just about any Pharmacy in TJ and inquire about AS. The pharmacist would bring out boxes of whatever you wanted. Some of the popular ones then were:

Ciba Dianabol
Searle Anavar
Winthrop Winstrol
Schering Primobolan Depot
Organon Deca-Durabolin
Mexican Sustanon 250
Depo-Testosterone

It was easy to buy and easy to bring home. Additionally, you could get pretty much whatever you wanted from gym sources, however, the prices were higher as you would expect.

I will also say that the doses being used at least by myself and those that I knew were mild compared to today. For bulking, it was basically Deca and Dianabol. The various testosterones were being used more by the power lifters. And length of use was shorter. Most guys that I knew would use for 12 week periods and then off. They would maybe do two or three cycles through the year.

In the mid 80s what were called designer steroids became available. The premise was that they were from East Germany but in reality they were manufactured in clandestine labs in the US. Bolasterone was one that had a big following and it was basically being manufactured in someones kitchen.

I will also say that generally all Bodybuilders, especially ones that competed, were using some type of AS but obviously nothing like today.

Get the vials of Primabolan Depot for sixty-cents.  Sell for as much as $6.  It's what we made the most money off of.  I bought my Cypionate from their too.     It was safer when we started getting it from the Tijuana Pharamists brother in Inglewood.

[freakfestMD]

The elbow and gh thing is ridiculous.  It is most likely due to damage and strain of the tendon/ligaments in the elbow and subsequent Bura sac inflammation.
I

Finally! 

The major photo in question does not show hypertrophy of the olecranon itself.  It's hanging there, for God's sake!

This looks like classic olecranon bursitis.

In any event, what's the news here?  Are we supposed to be SHOCKED that a pro bodybuilder used steroids and/or GH?  Genetic gifts aside, I'd be shocked if he didn't.

[Figo]

Freakfest, doesnt olecranon bursitis cause limited range of motion, and pain, thus limiting ability to train, also why/how/what would cause it to develop in both limbs, if its generally caused by enforced or prolonged trauma?
I think he was predisposed to "freaky" elbows, and maybe some substance intake/abuse worsened it or maybe not.
I'm not shocked anyone takes drugs or abuses anything, as my original q that started this thread, was what did he take to achieve such phenominal condition for prolonged periods.
Theres pics and articles of Dickerson in off-season shape in some early 80's m&f's where he really looked small and smooth and then, BAM! he took it up 3 notches, appeared at a show freaky ripped, and 1 1/2 times bigger.
I heard one of the top guys winning all the GP's in 80's was going to Australia often, and getting Drive or a derivative/generic which he attributed to his success, not sure if that was Coe or Dickerson, as they were both cleaning house those days.

[freakfestMD]

Freakfest, doesnt olecranon bursitis cause limited range of motion, and pain, thus limiting ability to train, also why/how/what would cause it to develop in both limbs, if its generally caused by enforced or prolonged trauma?
I think he was predisposed to "freaky" elbows, and maybe some substance intake/abuse worsened it or maybe not.

It can but let's face it--all of us train around our injuries somehow, no matter what it takes.  I have seen some cases of olecranon bursitis, though, that was not particularly painful, and the patient was still able to work construction jobs or train without much difficulty.

I was just greatly doubting that the "evidence" that he used GH was typified by his elbows.  You'll have to look elsewhere on his body for those tell tale signs.

[kimo]

chris was an opera singer also

[americanbulldog]

Interesting question and since so much time has passed and the key individual responsible for Chris Dickerson’s Mr. Olympia win has passed away I can tell you this.

I was under the care of Dr. Robert Kerr, from San Gabriel California in the early and mid 80s. Dr. Kerr, known as the steroid guru in the 1980s, was extremely knowledgeable regarding performance-enhancing drugs to include GH. Dr. Kerr worked and advised with many pro bodybuilders and athletes regarding performance drug use as well as wrote many papers and articles pertaining to these type medicines. Dr. Kerr was one of the first Doctors working with GH and athletic performance.

The way you became a patient was to write Dr. Kerr a letter describing your current physical state, your diet, how you trained and what you wanted to accomplish. If he decided to take you as a patient, an appointment would be set up, which lasted approximately one hour of which was spent evaluating you physical structure, etc. Dr. Kerr would then prescribe that medicine or medicines he felt would help you reach your goals. He required follow-up blood tests and office visits every three months for continued evaluation.

Sorry I took the long way to get to your questions- After one of my visits Dr. Kerr in  late 1982 he described in detail what drugs he had put Chris Dickerson on to win the Olympia. This included the drugs that were used to gain size and bulk up to the drugs that were used to get into contest condition. Somewhere I have this all written down in one of my journals, which I will try to locate.

In any event, anyone that worked out in World gym during this time frame (and Kieth-Onlyme was there) can attest to the fact the Chris Dickerson trained with extremely light weights. Most of us could not believe that shape he was attaining based on the light weights he was using.

I guess that having the best sport performance doctor on your side plus good genetics couldn’t hurt either… 

Kerr and Jadkoff were the two men who legally prescribed back in the day. 

[oldtimer1]

To the guys that have seen Dickerson training.  Can you give some examples of the weights he used.  I heard 30lbs for dumbbell curls.  To his defense he trained with a lot of sets with very little rest.  After six sets of an exercise with very little rest between sets for 12 reps how much weight can you use?

[donrhummy]

You guys are funny thinking the elbow thing is from steroids or anything else.

Why do you think growth hormone couldn't cause that insane growth in a BONE?

[onlyme]

Kerr and Jadkoff were the two men who legally prescribed back in the day. 

Its Jakot

[onlyme]

Why do you think growth hormone couldn't cause that insane growth in a BONE?

My friend in Honolulu has that elbow and he doesn't take any steroids at all.  It is an elongated ulna or something.  Not sure what he said but it looks weird.  I don't think taking steroids causes that or why doesn't more guys have it and especially the guys who take a lot of stuff.

[AVBG]

Chris was a great bodybuilder, but got many tears in his carreer.  The tri, bi and pec were torn.

The elbow and gh thing is ridiculous.  It is most likely due to damage and strain of the tendon/ligaments in the elbow and subsequent Bura sac inflammation.

I wrestle and the first 2 months training I couldn't find elbow pads (i was in a hick town).  My elbows looked twice as bad as Chris' do in that pix.  If you go back to the days wrestlers didn't wear elbow pads while training you can see the same thing in many guys....especially the ones with damage such as jimmy superfly snuka. 

exactly - spot on legbreaker.. The Dickerson GH claims are laughable.. 

[donrhummy]

My friend in Honolulu has that elbow and he doesn't take any steroids at all.  It is an elongated ulna or something.  Not sure what he said but it looks weird.  I don't think taking steroids causes that or why doesn't more guys have it and especially the guys who take a lot of stuff.

Right but...

1. I said GH not steroids. They're VERY different.
2. Dickerson didn't have those elbows when he was younger, or even in the middle of his career. Only towards the end.

[Patjock]

Wonder how he's doing now?

He is well and living in Fort lauderdale in a beautiful house.

[Figo]

He is well and living in Fort lauderdale in a beautiful house.

Retired?