Author Topic: OK...seriously getting frustrated!  (Read 2940 times)

jonsande

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OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« on: May 22, 2007, 07:05:03 PM »
Yo all,

It seems as though I've hit a wall with my size.  I can't get any larger than what I am.  I'm getting desperate for some input, as well as thinking crazily enough to start doing research on stacking up on some roids. 

Here's my deal: 

I've been lifting seriously for just about 3 years, during my junior year of college.  I'm 5'9", and when I started lifting, I weighed around 130 lbs and was a former long distance runner for track and cross country (so I was basically skinny as hell). 

My primary training partner was a powerlifter, so I generally followed a powerlifting approach to bodybuilding and have since sort of changed it to a powerbodybuilding style...i.e. heavy basics but a little more inclusion of isolation exercises and volume. 

I find that I'm gradually still getting stronger, but I can't seem to get any fucking bigger!  Here's a prime example.  Over the last year, I've bumped up my squatting from a 325 one rep max to doing a working sets of 315, 320, yet there's almost no size increase or cuts in my thighs.  And this is real squatting; no partials.  Ass to the grass. 

Same for deadlifting.  About this time a year ago, I could only get 315 up once.  Now, I do working sets of about 6 to 8 reps with 320, 325 lbs.  Any noticeable changes in back thickness?  Not really. 

All of my exercises are heavier than ever, both my core lifts and my isolations.  I can curl a 100lb barbell for reps, hammer curl 55lb dumbells for reps, just about stack the entire machine for straight bar tricep pushdowns and etc - all in very clean form, but my arms only measure 15.5 inches around not pumped. 

What the hell is going on here?  I'm really frustrated.  Several of my friends and lifting partners have noticeably more muscle mass than I do, but I'm undesputedly stronger than some of them still.  This shit ain't adding up. 

I've been stuck at 180-185 lbs for about the last year, maybe even year and a half.  I want some damn size for all of my blood, sweat, and tears in the gym.  I train regularly and consistently, I don't overtrain and take a training break if I feel I'm close to overtraining; I get plenty of sleep and protein, and my diet is relatively clean. 

The only thing I can think of is that I'm not getting enough protein, but that seems highly unlikely as I normally eat a heavy protein meal at least 5 times a day.  I'm guessing that I get just about a gram of protein per pound on average, maybe a little less.  No less than 120, 130 grams a day which I've been told from plenty of highly credible sources is plenty of you're not on gear. 

Any ideas?  Will the size eventually come as long as I continue to make strength gains?  Do I just have shit genetics?  I pretty much don't look like I even lift when I'm covered up, or even when I have a loose t shirt on. 

Help, dammit!  If any of you need any further details, like a training log or daily diet sample, I'll post them.  Thanks GBers!

pumpher

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2007, 07:42:30 PM »
50lb gain in 3 years as a natural and you're complaining ??? You make your best gains when you start out, don't expect this rate of gain to continue!

How many total calories are you eating/day?

Your weights & strength are going up, so that suggests that you are putting on muscle.

Are you training to failure? How is your intensity? Are you sore the next few days?

It sounds like you have plateaued - usually that means you should change up the routine a bit. Try higher weight, more reps, giant sets, less rest between sets, negatives, rest-pauses ...ie anything to up the intensity and stimulate growth.

jonsande

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2007, 12:00:56 AM »
Yeah I definitely understand that the curve doesn't last forever.  I hit my first bump at around 165 lbs awhile ago.  I powered through that by just having my spotter watch me as I forced reps with heavier weight. 

Training to failure is something I always do.  Since these days I'm training solo, forced reps isn't usually an option.  To switch it up, I've been doing DC style training for about the last two months which I've heard is phenomenal for plateau breaking.  That's probably the main reason why my lifts and intensity are up so much and it seems to be working so far (I think).  My quads seem to respond better to old school high volume heavy training, so they're rarely sore unless I violate DC protocol and throw in another set or two.  Other than that, I'm still sore after most workouts.  I've been thinking of looking into this whole giant set thing that I'm hearing so much about.  After my current training break is over, I'm probably going to try that out, or at least a higher volume program in general. 

As for calories, I have absolutely no clue.  I just eat about 5 full meals a day along with a shake and piece of fruit after the gym, and a cup of cottage cheese before bed since I'm out of casein.  I'll start recording calories. 

Bluto

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2007, 12:39:17 AM »
I think you need to check your no of calories and add 300-500 a day and see what happens. Also switch and use more volume - sets and higher reps and see how your body react to that.

I'm sure more size will come, in the meantime - enjoy your strength  8)
Z

greg2112

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2007, 06:25:02 AM »
whats your training routine like?  Post an example?

Redwingenator

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2007, 06:34:50 AM »
Someone that is untrained initially adds innervation to their motor units to add strength which is why newbies can make such fast strength gains in the first month of lifting, it is a lot faster and easier for the body to add some nerves than pounds of muscle.  After that process maxes out, the primary way to add strength is to add muscle.  So if you're getting stronger you're adding muscle. 

Bluto

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2007, 07:27:18 AM »
i know several people who a) dont go up in mass but go up in strength b) is stronger than others who has much more mass.

so to say you go up in size when you go up in strength isnt necessarily true IMO especially not if there's a shortage of calories.
Z

jpm101

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2007, 09:35:39 AM »
Getting stronger does not always mean getting larger in muscle size. Good example would be Pl'ers who want to remain in their selective weight class.

There is an old saying in BB'ing, "More blood, more muscle". Which can mean, coveting the pump with higher reps and a moderate weight used. This is pure BB'ing. In so many words, you have to pump up the volume to pump up the blood supply to the muscles. Quite a few programs will do this, but pretty much depend on a basic split for a given training week. You would want more time under tension (TUT) and less rest between sets for the muscle area your are training. But you would not always want to go to the point of momentary failure on any set, in any exercise. Quite a different experience with doing squats with 6 to 8 reps and doing 12-15 reps a set, at a fast pace.

Just a couple (of many) avenues you might consider, not always the main stream BB'ing programs:  8X8's.  Gironda, best I can tell, was the father of the 8X8 system as well as many other inventive workout plans. Might do a search on his training style.

10X10's were originally set up for Olympic lifters ( central Europe mostly) during off season lifting. Coaches wanted something easier on the joints, but still keep the lifters in shape. Surprise  was that the lifters got stronger, with much more muscle size with this system. Some even jumped into a higher weight class. You can still include those compound exercises in either program, like squats, DL, benches, etc. in 8X8's or 10X10's.Can do a search, also, on SS's, Giants, Tri sets, Pre-exhausting, rest/pause,100's, etc, etc,etc.. Dozens of methods in BB'ing to gain mass.

The only supplement (other than a high grade, easily digested and assimilated  into the blood stream whey protein...taken through out the day) would be Creatine Monohydrate with a dextrose (among other thing) delivery base. I am not a big believer in  extra supplements, just a solid diet for trainee's (keeping high quality calories high). But seeing the results,over the years, on some of our athletes, has impressed me. Maybe  not for everyone though. Good luck.
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Mike

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2007, 11:14:58 AM »
Getting stronger does not always mean getting larger in muscle size. Good example would be Pl'ers who want to remain in their selective weight class.

There is an old saying in BB'ing, "More blood, more muscle". Which can mean, coveting the pump with higher reps and a moderate weight used. This is pure BB'ing. In so many words, you have to pump up the volume to pump up the blood supply to the muscles. Quite a few programs will do this, but pretty much depend on a basic split for a given training week. You would want more time under tension (TUT) and less rest between sets for the muscle area your are training. But you would not always want to go to the point of momentary failure on any set, in any exercise. Quite a different experience with doing squats with 6 to 8 reps and doing 12-15 reps a set, at a fast pace.

Just a couple (of many) avenues you might consider, not always the main stream BB'ing programs:  8X8's.  Gironda, best I can tell, was the father of the 8X8 system as well as many other inventive workout plans. Might do a search on his training style.

10X10's were originally set up for Olympic lifters ( central Europe mostly) during off season lifting. Coaches wanted something easier on the joints, but still keep the lifters in shape. Surprise  was that the lifters got stronger, with much more muscle size with this system. Some even jumped into a higher weight class. You can still include those compound exercises in either program, like squats, DL, benches, etc. in 8X8's or 10X10's.Can do a search, also, on SS's, Giants, Tri sets, Pre-exhausting, rest/pause,100's, etc, etc,etc.. Dozens of methods in BB'ing to gain mass.

The only supplement (other than a high grade, easily digested and assimilated  into the blood stream whey protein...taken through out the day) would be Creatine Monohydrate with a dextrose (among other thing) delivery base. I am not a big believer in  extra supplements, just a solid diet for trainee's (keeping high quality calories high). But seeing the results,over the years, on some of our athletes, has impressed me. Maybe  not for everyone though. Good luck.

I think JPM and some others have great suggestions but it sounds like your traingin routine(s) is/are pretty much in check.  You seem to keep varying it and understand the basic principles of weightlifting. 

My main concern is with the quote "As for calories, I have absolutely no clue."  This should be your MAIN focus when trying to put on size.  Go back and consult your highly credible sources (seriously) for info on calorie intake and macronutrient breakdown.

triple_pickle

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2007, 11:54:44 AM »
easy.  eat more.

jonsande

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2007, 02:06:50 PM »
Thanks for the feedback, everyone.  I'm going to start recording calories from this point onward and see how I'm doing in that department.

Like I said before, over about the last 16 weeks, I've been training DoggCrap style as part of my effort to blow through a plateau, which is why my strength gains are so great, but not necessarily size.  I think I've just been inspired to at least try out some higher volume routines over the next 6 weeks or so, and then perhaps go back to DC or perhaps not.  Not real sure.  In the mean time, here's a sample of my training log for my most recent 2 week DC cycle.  The poundages represent my all out intense working set after warm up sets, rest paused to failure for in between 12 and 25 reps depending on the exercise (except for deads and sld's which I do straight sets, less volume for safety issues).  Some of the lighter, isolation exercises have been recently swapped in during the last couple of weeks because I maxed out weight/reps for the previous exercise and I haven't yet built up the weight. 

Week I:

AI:  Incline Smith                 210
      Barbell Shoulder Press     110
      Rope Pushdowns (new)    60           
      Lat Pulldowns                185
      Deadlifts                       325

BI:  Barbell Curls                   100   
      Reverse Curls                  90
      Standing Calf Machine      250               
      Seated Leg Curls             205
      Plate loaded Leg Press     400

AII: Hammer Chest Press        195
      Dumbell Shoulder Press      55's
      Dumbell Kickbacks (new)   35's
      Parallel Bar Lat Pulldowns  180
      T Bar Rows                     115

Week II:

BII:  Alternating Dumbell Curls (new)    40's
       Hammer Curls                   50's
       Seated Calf Raises            115
       Squats                            315
       Stiff Legged Deads            195

AIII: Incline Hammer Press         180
       Smythe Shoulder Press       125
       Overhead Tricep Press (new)  50
       Barbell Rows                     205
       Weighted Pull-ups              body + 15

BIII: Cable Curls                       95
       Barbell Wrist Curls              65
       Angled Calf Raises             210
       Lying Leg Curls                 175
       Front Squats                    215
       
Everything is done with a full range of motion and with a prolonged negative, except for my deadlifts where the bar just crashes down after I pull it. 

Here's a page from my diet log that I kept for 3 days a few weeks ago to see my eating habits.  This is one of my heavier eating days.  I didn't train on this day.  Most of the time I eat a little less, sometimes a little more.  Now that I look at things, I think diet might be my number one problem.  Tell me if it is based on this:

Breakfast:  1 whole egg; 3 whites
                1 pouch oatmeal w/skim milk
                multi vitamin
                Total Aproximate Nutritional Value (TANV):  Protein  29.5 G  Carbs  38 G  Fat 2 G

Meal 2:      Roast Beef Sandwich
                Peaches, cottage cheese
                TANV:  P  37 G   C  53 G  F  9 G

Meal 3:      3 Slices Corned Beef
                1 Cup cheese/broccoli rice
                TANV:  P  41 G  C  42 G   F  21 G

Meal 4:      1 can tuna w/italinan dressing
                2 cups applesauce
                1/4 cup peanuts
                TANV:  P  35 G  C  51 G   F  17 G

Before Bed:  12 oz  skim milk (out of casein)
                TANV:  P  12 G  C  18 G   F  0 G

Total values for the day:  155 G Protein,   202 G Carbs, 49 G Fat

Natural @ 5'9", 180 lbs.  I'm not sure what my body fat percentage is.  My abs aren't visible, but I'm not considered fat at all by those around me.  Maybe around 15-17%?  Not sure.  I have a small gut when I sit down. 


lilwoday09smb

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2007, 05:13:53 PM »
try to get at least 230 gm protein, 230 carbs, and 60-70 fat. you will grow, up the protrin and fat and lower the carbs when you want to cut

wes

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2007, 05:51:24 PM »
Dude,you`re eating like a bird...increase overall food intake ,bump protein way up there-250-300 grams per day of clean protein foods.

Eat more beef,pasta,whole eggs,and peanut butter.

Meal # 1:
6 whole eggs
2 sl. whole grain toast with natty peanut butter
1 cup oatmeal
1 banana

Meal # 2:
8 oz. chicken breast
2 baked potatoes
lg. salad
1 cup veggies

Meal # 3:
2 cans water packed tuna
1 cup brown rice
1 cup veggies

Meal # 4:
6-8 oz. lean steak or lean ground beef
whole wheat pasta/tomato sauce
salad

Meal # 5:
10 eggwhites
2 Tbsp. natty peanut butter

Meal # 6:
5 oz. chicken breast
2 Tbsp. natty peanut butter

Throw in a whey shake at post-workout mixed in water with another baked potato and one more at bedtime with a Tbsp. of olive oil

I also agree with JPM as far as training goes.

lilwoday09smb

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2007, 05:58:13 PM »
dam wes i wish i could eat that much, ive been force feeding my self currently my diet looks like this, any input would be greatly appreciated

meal 1
6 whole eggs
1/2 cup oatmeal
1 cup plain yogurt
rasberries
2 cups non fat milk
fish oil, flaxseed, vitamin c, multi vitamin, bcaa

meal 2 post workout
2 scoops whey
1/4 cup dextrose
bcaas

meal 3
2 cans tuna
1/2 cup oatmeal

meal 4
1 chicken breast
1 cup brocolli
2 oz peanuts
1/2 cup brown rice

meal 5
1 can tuna
1 oz peanuts



Bluto

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2007, 03:04:40 AM »
what do you mean by diet, that youre on an actual diet? because if not, if youre trying to gain weight then there's no need to just eat tuna and chicken IMO

and how can you eat half a cup of rice and stuff like that i eat 2 cups of rice, if i eat pasta, i eat like 2 full plates

anyway, if you got a problem eating a lot just add a little more to each meal over a period of time and it will be easier it might be hard to make drastic changes from one day to another. the body will get used to it.
Z

Hedgehog

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2007, 03:34:59 AM »
try to get at least 230 gm protein, 230 carbs, and 60-70 fat. you will grow, up the protrin and fat and lower the carbs when you want to cut

Too low carb.

Slightly too high protein.

Maybe 300-400 grams of carbs per day and 130-180 grams of protein. 100-120 grams of fats.

-Hedge
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jpm101

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2007, 08:44:25 AM »
Maybe I'm old fashion and not intuned with the BB'ing food police, but how about more red meat in the training diet? Steak or ham steak and eggs for breakfast, hamburger steak for lunch and a pot roast for dinner. Include soups, vegetables, hold grain products, etc along with these meals.. Muscle meats tends to build muscle for just about everyone. I bet strength and muscle size will follow. The body also needs those fats (and all important oils), with the meats, for better  assimilation. Beef stew can be another item to think about. You do not have to gorge yourself with food each meal. Do include fish and chicken, they are all part of the package. But it might do a body good to have meat as a main factor. Have a protein shake between meals if you wish. Make it small and sip it slowly over a few minutes, never chug-a-lugging it.

A young active male (USA) calorie requirement is a mean average 3,000 for maintenance. Ambitious weight trainee's would require around the 3500 to 4000 range for maintenance (depending on body type....repair/recovery) and for additional muscle and strength growth. No sense shoveling in unneeded food and extra calories. Unless your main desire is to become a Sumo superstar. If your not gaining a somewhat lean muscle mass at a slow and steady pace, than check how you are working out (or add a few hundred calories more to see what happens).Too little or too much working out should give the first clue to why gains may be a problem.

I will agreed with HedgeHog that too much protein is overkill. Too much of the stuff can not be digested the way it should and winds up being used for energy requirement (calories)  rather than muscle building. Or just passed out of the body as a waste produce. Someone once said that quality food is the best supplement. I tend to agree with this. Good luck.
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wes

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2007, 10:54:53 AM »
dam wes i wish i could eat that much, ive been force feeding my self currently my diet looks like this, any input would be greatly appreciated

meal 1
6 whole eggs
1/2 cup oatmeal
1 cup plain yogurt
rasberries
2 cups non fat milk
fish oil, flaxseed, vitamin c, multi vitamin, bcaa

meal 2 post workout
2 scoops whey
1/4 cup dextrose
bcaas

meal 3
2 cans tuna
1/2 cup oatmeal

meal 4
1 chicken breast
1 cup brocolli
2 oz peanuts
1/2 cup brown rice

meal 5
1 can tuna
1 oz peanuts



Dude,definately add some beef and other calorie dense foods into your eating plan.

If you`re not competing anytime soon or at all,don`t rely solely on just tuna and chicken as your main protein sources.

To keep bodyfat in check,try training just a bit lighter but rest less between sets.....keep moving and then walk on a treadmill,preferably on an incline for 30 minutes 3 x aweek.......nothing fast,just get the heart rate and breathing up a bit,it`ll also be beneficial as far as recovery is concerned and it`s a great CV activity too.

My diet recommendations for you as far as gaining good solid weight is concerned:

meal 1
6 whole eggs
1 cup oatmeal
1 cup plain yogurt
1 banana
2 cups non fat milk
fish oil, flaxseed, vitamin c, multi vitamin, bcaa

meal 2 post workout
2 scoops whey
1/4 cup dextrose
1 med. sized baked potato (plain)
2 Tbsp. honey (will help spike insulin very quickly)
bcaas

meal 3
6-8 oz. lean steak
1 baked potato
1 Lg. salad
1 cup veggies
1 orange

meal 4
8 oz. chicken breast
1 cup brocolli
1 cup brown rice
8 oz. skim milk

meal 5
5-6 oz. chicken breast
1 cup brocolli
1/2 cup brown rice
8 oz. skim milk

meal 6
1 can tuna
2 Tbsp. peanut butter

meal 7 (before bed)
2 scoops whey
1 Tbsp. olive oil
OR
6 whole eggs

In between meals eat the peanuts,maybe some more yogurt,a bit of cheese,another salad,and possibly a peanut butter and jelly sandwich or two with skim milk............just use natty peanut butter and sugar-free jelly.

Important:
Drink at least a gallon of water per day........hopefully more.

These are just some suggestions,there are many more scenarios of course, but I think this is a solid plan.........do what Bluto advised also,if it`s too much food for one day,slowly add in foods to your diet until your body is acclimated to the larger amounts.

And don`t forget to work legs heavy with higher reps......... and don`t skimp on deadlifts either.

lilwoday09smb

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2007, 12:15:47 PM »
thanks i appreciate it, my routine always seems to be on but gaining quality weight is hard, i can easily gain fat and would like to loose about 3 percent body fat and i would really be happy with my phyiosique any ideas on dropping a lil bit of body fat. im currently around 13-14 and would like to get down to about 10. i have abs, there visible but i store most of my fat in the lovehandles.

Mike

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2007, 03:58:43 PM »
thanks i appreciate it, my routine always seems to be on but gaining quality weight is hard, i can easily gain fat and would like to loose about 3 percent body fat and i would really be happy with my phyiosique any ideas on dropping a lil bit of body fat. im currently around 13-14 and would like to get down to about 10. i have abs, there visible but i store most of my fat in the lovehandles.

wait wait, who's thread is this?

jonsande

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2007, 04:59:48 PM »
wait wait, who's thread is this?

Hehe, serious thread hijacking.  It's all good though.  I think that diet could apply to me also. 

lilwoday, how much do you weigh, and how tall are you? 

i think i'm going to eat a goal of about 180 grams of protein daily.  Based on what I'm hearing, that should be a good balance in between having enough to grow and not wasting nutrients.  Also, I need to pick up some creatine and dextrose.  I'm going to keep calories at around 4000 and see what that does for me. 

I'm also in the process of writing a better routine for myself.  For my core lifts, I'm going to continue to go heavy, but just introduce a little bit more volume and stray away from DC style for now.  For isolation exercises, I think I'm going to try out something really high in volume, like giant sets or something else; lighter weight, but with strict focus on getting the biggest pumps possible.  Especially for shoulder, arm, and chest work which are my biggest deficiencies.  I have such a narrow frame, so shoulders are a HUGE priority.


jpm101

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2007, 05:26:19 PM »
JonS: Any good quality Creatine will have dextrose ( along with beet juice sometimes, etc..acting as a delivery system for the Creatine)already in it. Actually pretty cheap stuff, considering what it may or may not do for you. Some of out athletes have used it, where they have to gain good quality muscle bwt in a somewhat short period of time (1 to 3 months usually). I hear that Wal-Mart sells a very good quality product of the stuff. Less than $20. Good luck.
F

jonsande

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Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2007, 05:31:03 PM »
Oh, Jpm:  thanks for the reference of alternative training styles.  I looked up the 8x8 methodology, and it looks like something I want to try for at least a few months.  For those of you who are interested, here's a pretty detailed description I came across.  The website wouldn't actually let me copy and paste the text, so I had to get a little nerdy and copy it from the source code, which is why the format is so sloppy.  Sorry if I left some code in:

8x8 Training Principles, Copyright Gregg Gillies

Here's the scoop: You perform 3 to 4 exercises per muscle
                        group and you do 8 sets of 8 reps for each exercise. Yes,
                        that's 24 - 32 sets per muscle group! Normally, I'd say
                        that you'll overtrain in a week on this type of volume,
                        but this weight training program is quite different than
                        what you are used to.
                    You work two or three muscle groups per session and you
                        rest only 15 to 30 seconds between sets and complete each
                        workout in about 45 minutes - never more than 60.
                    This program, properly performed, will build muscle mass
                        fast. Even with the large number of sets, it will crank
                        up your intensity level by performing all this work in a
                        short period of time. This is much different than the endless
                        volume, 2 to 3 hour marathon workouts.
                    An absolute key to gaining muscle mass is overload, or
                        progressive
                      resistance. This is usually accomplished by adding weight
                      to your exercises but this is not the only way to achieve
                      overload on your muscles. Another is to do more work in
                      less time, which is exactly what you get with this weight
                      training system.

                    This weight training program will be a serious shock to
                        your system. It's nothing like the bodybuilding programs
                        you see everyone else in your gym doing. Not even close.
                        In fact, I would bet you've never seen one person in your
                        gym train on this routine. But, hey, how many of them have
                        you seen lose fat or gain mass quickly or, for that matter,
                        make any positive changes in their body recently?
                   How Much Rest Between Sets?
                    The idea is minimum rest. This means working down to 30
                    seconds between sets at a minimum, and if you really want
                    the program to work and quickly build muscle, you'll need
                    to get down to 15 to 20 seconds between
                    sets. With a typical tempo of about 4 seconds per rep, you
                    should be able to complete a 24 set workout in 18 - 21 minutes
                    and 32 sets will take 25 to 28 minutes. Sounds painful,
                    doesn't it? But it works. And you do want to build muscle,
                    don't you?
                 
                    Whatever exercise you're doing, don't let go of the bar
                      or dumbbells between sets. If you're benching, keep your
                      hands on the bar once you rack it. Doing deadlifts with
                      straps? Keep the straps on and your hands in place between
                  sets.

                  At first, you'll see a large drop in the amount of weight
                    you'll be using. Hey, not many of use are used to 15 seconds
                    between sets. Most of us take
                    at least a minute, if not two or three when we are training
                    heavy. Most likely, you'll need to drop your weights by
                    about 40 percent of what you typically use for a set of
                    8 reps. If you bench press 150 pounds for 8 reps with 60
                    to 90 seconds between sets, you'll most likely need to reduce
                    the poundage to about 90 pounds (if not lighter for the
                    first workout or two). As you adapt, start to build muscle,
                    and get used to the short rest periods, you'll see your
                    weights move back up.
                  You have to select the proper starting weight. This is
                    so important in your ability to build muscle and be successful
                    with this training program. The first workout or two should
                    be pretty easy as you get used to the program.
                    This will help you build momentum moving forward and allow
                    you to progress over a 4 to 6 week period of intense weight
                    training. Besides building momentum, the first two workouts
                    should be pretty easy so you don't end up with debilitating
                    soreness that keeps you out of the gym for a week.

                  You'll be using the same weight on every set. It's okay
                    to drop to 6 or 7 reps on the last set or two, but if you
                    drop below 8 on your fourth or fifth set, the weight is
                    too heavy.
                  When you can easily complete eight sets of eight reps,
                    it's time to up the weight at the next workout.
                  Obviously, you won't be training to failure on most of
                    your sets. Most likely you'll only do so on the last set
                    or two of each. However, you will be training like your've
                    never trained before. This routine is brutal on your body
                    and, especially, on your mind. This is even more true on
                    the big compound exercises, like dips, deadlifts, squats
                    and bent over rows.
                  Don't think you can handle this intense muscle building
                    weight lifting routine? You could start out by applying
                    this technique to one body part. If you are going to do
                    that, you'll want to cut back on the rest of your training.
                    Also, if you want results, you'll perform the routine on
                    the big muscles, like the back, and not use it just for
                    biceps. This is what I usually do. I'll perform the 8 x
                    8 routine on one bodypart at a time. It's a great way to
                    keep your routine fresh and prevent burnout.

For many of you, even fewer sets may be more effective,
                    as you can quickly overtrain on a program like this. I don't
                    recommend performing this weight training routine for more
                    than 4 - 5 weeks before taking a complete week of rest from
                    the gym.
                 
                  Keep in mind that weightlifting workouts like this are
                    a great way to quickly build muscle but it's also a great
                    way to lose fat, completely change the shape of your body,
                    and keep the fat off. Weight lifting is much more effective
                    for fat loss than aerobics or dieting alone.

There's also an included sample lifting schedule, but it's so wrapped up in code that it's really impractical to paste it here.  So rather than do that, I'll just provide the direct link to that and the information above together, for those who are interested:

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/articles-submit/greg-gillies/build-muscle-8x8.htm

EL Mariachi

  • Getbig V
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  • Posts: 6019
Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2007, 05:52:34 PM »
heavy squats aint gonna deliver you big legs, try doing moderate weight with a total of 120 reps for legs. they will grow, no doubt.

lilwoday09smb

  • Getbig III
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  • Posts: 653
Re: OK...seriously getting frustrated!
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2007, 06:20:16 PM »
im 5'9'' i weigh 197 this am after breakfeast, 20 years old