Disaster after following the TA principles.

[The Master]

Go to the Natural Section on MD.

There is a thread titled Layne Norton.  Should be a sticky.  Start reading the whole thing.  You will find that he has changed his views, which is a good thing.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

[Hedgehog]

he totally contradicts what he wrote.  There is nothing wrong with doing that.

Are you implying that you no longer think a beer-only diet "works just fine"? 

-Hedge

[Big Worm]

what is recommended for homosexuals who still have 75lbs of fat to lose?

Ask your Boyfriend (Apenis) to Google,Cut,Paste ..Then P.M. you the link..Although I'm pretty sure both (BASTurd,Apenis) have already done plenty of research on this matter ..

[The True Adonis]

well what you "need" is one thing, how much you need is actually very little, how much is beneficial is much higher. As of now there are no studies indicating that anything higher than 2.2g/kg is beneficial (1g/lb) so I think 1g/lb is plenty, I eat slightly more just because I like the taste of meat myself.

-Layne

 

Yep.  And he used to believe in HIGH PROTEIN.  Good thing that Layne finally realized that.  It is a shame that it took so long.

[The True Adonis]

Well, that's my whole point: You claim eating 1 g/lb is a waste. Please elaborate on this.

Where did I claim that?

I think the RDA, RDI is fine.  Nothing is a waste provided you get the RDA, RDI on average  and don`t go over your caloric limit and constantly stay in a deficit.  Some days I have hardly any protein, some days I have a lot.  It all depends on what I feel like eating.

[shiftedShapes]

I like the taste of meat myself.

-Layne

and he specializes in protein metabolism

Layne will go a long way in BBing




rich creamy protein

[Matt C]

you are the True believer, cowed by years of reading Flex magazine.

I know the info in FLEX works for me, so I'm going to apply it, ok?

[The True Adonis]

I like this quote:
no need to cut out protein shakes... unless one has a lactalbumin sensitivity and then they should be limited

1. i think your protein intake is too high. I have literally spent the last 8 years of my life studying protein and more recently my studies at the graduate school level have been spent studying protein synthesis and metabolism in depth. There is just no evidence that anything over 1g/lb is beneficial for anabolism and there is evidence that going too high can actually reduce the anabolic response. I would mitigate your intake to 1.5g/lb.

2. shakes are not 'needed' persay but there is also no reason to cut them out

muscletech does not put out bad products, they are just expensive and their claims are a bit outlandish
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[The True Adonis]

Interesting, yet, I've seen some posts where you've written things that makes me question the congruency of your statement (seen against your Adonis principles). (Again, if I'm wrong, I'll give you my apology)

Anyway, I'll leave the "Adonis post scanning" to Hedgehog, if there is actually inconsistencies here, I'm sure he'll find it.

So, in other words: Somebody eating 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight is in your opinion eating a good diet for BBing and optimal health? (given that the amounts of total calories, carbs and healthy fats are balanced).

1. Get the RDA, RDI on average. 
2. Do not over consume calories
3. For optimum health this means staying under 2000 calories.

[shiftedShapes]

I know the info in FLEX works for me, so I'm going to apply it, ok?

if by works, you mean helps you avoid anxiety about Muscle loss, I would agree with you.  If you are trying to build a decent physique and stay healthy then I don't think it is working for you.

I will guarantee yyou two things....you will get in shape if you keep watching what you eat, if you don't like being lean and ripped you can go back to your bloated shape with a month of crappy eating.

[Hedgehog]

Yep.  And he used to believe in HIGH PROTEIN.  Good thing that Layne finally realized that.  It is a shame that it took so long.

What are you on about? It's clear as a day that Norton still believes in a high protein diet.

200 grams of protein, or 150 grams of protein daily, is high protein.

If you thought otherwise, it's unfortunate.

But luckily, now you know.

A traditional macro balance recommendation would be 60C/30F/10P. And for an athlete, it may be 60C/25F/15P, or 55C/30F/15P, a little depending on what sport you're in.

A 50C/30F/20P, is definitely high protein, and if you're on a 3000 calorie diet, that means 150 grams.

-Hedge

[shiftedShapes]

Interesting, yet, I've seen some posts where you've written things that makes me question the congruency of your statement (seen against your Adonis principles). (Again, if I'm wrong, I'll give you my apology)

Anyway, I'll leave the "Adonis post scanning" to Hedgehog, if there is actually inconsistencies here, I'm sure he'll find it.

So, in other words: Somebody eating 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight is in your opinion eating a good diet for BBing and optimal health? (given that the amounts of total calories, carbs and healthy fats are balanced).

the problem with excessive protein consumption is that it is not very satisfying and you will likely end up feeling like crap if you are taking in large amounts of protein and sticking to a low calorie diet.

this is why pre-contest BBers are so crabby and weak.

[The True Adonis]

What are you on about? It's clear as a day that Norton still believes in a high protein diet.

200 grams of protein, or 150 grams of protein daily, is high protein.

If you thought otherwise, it's unfortunate.

But luckily, now you know.

A traditional macro balance recommendation would be 60C/30F/10P. And for an athlete, it may be 60C/25F/15P, or 55C/30F/15P, a little depending on what sport you're in.

A 50C/30F/20P, is definitely high protein, and if you're on a 3000 calorie diet, that means 150 grams.

-Hedge

You thought otherwise which is unfortunate.
Go ahead and waste your time with your Macro balance.  It won`t help keep you from looking the same as you did last year and the year before that.
Post pictures from each year so we all can see what I mean.

The fact is, you have been wasting your time and look the same, which is a bit on the obese side, year after year.  

[Hedgehog]

You thought otherwise which is unfortunate.
Go ahead and waste your time with your Macro balance.  It won`t help keep you from looking the same as you did last year and the year before that.
Post pictures from each year so we all can see what I mean.

The fact is, you have been wasting your time and look the same, which is a bit on the obese side, year after year. 

Yep.  And he used to believe in HIGH PROTEIN.  Good thing that Layne finally realized that.  It is a shame that it took so long.

What do you mean "used to"?

And do you or do you not recommend a beer only diet:


do you recommend it:

if a calorie is just a calorie ,how about a only '' beer'' diet

That works just fine.

or do you NOT recommend it:

You wouldn`t, but you could survive on it.
I don`t recommend it at all.

-Hedge

[dr.chimps]

I like this quote:
2. shakes are not 'needed' persay but there is also no reason to cut them out

As a pedantic aside. What publication spells per ce, persay? I'll go out on a limb and say it's not NEJM.   

[Matt C]

My goals are to be 200-210 in the same condition I'm in now and with a chest.    Where I'm from it's kind of hard to be any leaner during the winter when it gets to -40.

[The True Adonis]

Why did he then write this March 22nd, 2007?

you sound like a monster man. My best reply to this would be to check out my precontest article http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne36.htm my whole philosophy is in there. If you still have questions after reading that please let me know!

And then: March 29th, 2007

Irish, I would check out my article here http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne36.htm it was written as a precontest prep article but will work great for anyone wanting to drop bodyfat


Does not seem like he moves away from what he wrote in that article 


And is a calorie really a calorie?

http://www.intelligentdesignmagazine.com/issues/current/IntelligentDESIGN_Spring_2007.pdf

Here is why his article is MEANINGLESS:

WHY THE THERMIC EFFECT OF FOOD IS MEANINGLESS!!!!!!!!! for the 98435890435834 time.

Protein has a Thermic effect of about 15% wheras carbohydrates are around 10% as studies indicate.

What this represents is the calories burned through digestion.  There is not a significant variance to even matter.

Lets say one takes in 300 grams of carbs or 1200 calories.  10 percent burned is going to be 120 calories.

Now lets compare 300 grams of protein or 1200 calories.  180 calories are going to be burned in digestion.

The variance of 60 calories means nothing.  Typing on the computer for an hour also burns 60 calories.

Hope this helps you guys.

[The True Adonis]

As a pedantic aside. What publication spells per ce, persay? I'll go out on a limb and say it's not NEJM.   

No idea.  Layne wrote that. haha

[shiftedShapes]

Agree with you on that, and I also agree that calories are the determining factor, yet, believing that the macronutrient configuration has no effect without trying some careful experiments on oneself is a bit of a stretch.

Right now I'm using a 25p/25f/50%c configuration, and I will change the protein down to 20% (and eventually even lower) while keeping carbs at 55% (and eventually higher) as an experiment to see how this influences my daily energy levels. (I probably determine my macronutrient configuration more from what kinds of foods I like (salmon, chicken) than from some kind of nutritional philosophy anyway. Life is to short to suffer).

The most important thing in my opinion is that natural BBs should be careful about losing weight to fast. 1 lb per week is plenty in my opinion.

I agree...total calories are what counts so it is important to try to eat foods that satisfy you and allow you to get through the day with sufficient energy and manageable hunger so you can stick to your calorie restriction and have productive work outs.

[shiftedShapes]

My goals are to be 200-210 in the same condition I'm in now and with a chest.    Where I'm from it's kind of hard to be any leaner during the winter when it gets to -40.

why gain anymore weight?  you won't gain muscle any faster, you'll just be fatter.

[Matt C]

why gain anymore weight?  you won't gain muscle any faster, you'll just be fatter.

In general that is true, but I've already been at 200 in the same condition so it's more a matter of gaining muscle back that I already had.

[Bast000]

In general that is true, but I've already been at 200 in the same condition so it's more a matter of gaining muscle back that I already had.

So you're saying you lost 20lbs of muscle?  You lost no fat or water?   

[Matt C]

So you're saying you lost 20lbs of muscle?  You lost no fat or water?   

What is my body fat right now?  Maybe 12-14% of somewhere in there?  I would say I lost muscle in exact accordance with those figures.  Meaning that 12-14% of what I lost was fat, some was water, and the rest was muscle.  Over 10 pounds of muscle lost?  Sure, I don't see why not.

[shiftedShapes]

What is my body fat right now?  Maybe 12-14% of somewhere in there?  I would say I lost muscle in exact accordance with those figures.  Meaning that 12-14% of what I lost was fat, some was water, and the rest was muscle.  Over 10 pounds of muscle lost?  Sure, I don't see why not.

because you don't have muscular dystrophy.  you are a healthy young man.  have you ever watched survivor, those people eat coconuts and rice and every single one of them comes out looking like they lost fat and retained all of their muscle.

[shiftedShapes]

What is my body fat right now?  Maybe 12-14% of somewhere in there?  I would say I lost muscle in exact accordance with those figures.  Meaning that 12-14% of what I lost was fat, some was water, and the rest was muscle.  Over 10 pounds of muscle lost?  Sure, I don't see why not.

if you were at 200lbs and 12% you were probably the best developed natural bodybuilder in the world.  You had more muscle then Zane did in contest shape.

please take a second to think