Pumping iron finale: Lou's biggest mistake of his life?

[TheDoctor]

He was 315 at the 1993 Olympia. Exactly what sickness did he get?

Exactly 55 pounds heavier than the 75 MrO and Milos claims that most Pros are on less than a gram a week thing that make you go hmmm

[MarvinEderFan]

I don't buy the "Serge was better than Arnold" deal. Every pic I've seen Arnold owns the competition (his arms and back were better than Nubret) and if Nubret was the natural you believe him to be, Montana, why would he drop 20 lbs.
It's a one-sided story. And you've only heard it from Nubret.

[TheDoctor]

Anyone who looks at Serge's bearded picture and others like it when he first arrived to S. Africa will not agree with you. The old schoolers call him "The Uncrowned Mr. Olympia." IFBB pros, organizers and bodybuilding legends have said it. He still beat Ferrigno AFTER losing 20 lbs. after being told for several weeks he was not allowed to compete...when his spirit and physique were broken down from being wrongly defamed and the friendship betrayed. You completely ignore the main point--that bad sportsmanship was shown; Serge was treated unfair.  If you discuss Serge's '75 O physique with disregard to what happened to him, you will be seen as someone with a blind spot so large you lack credibility. I did not say I was sure he would beat Schwarzenegger.  THE WEIDERS said it clearly by disqualifying Serge for no reason...waiting to do it after he arrives there showing his condition and not letting him compete until he was broken down in size, weight and spirit. Look at pictures of Serge when he got to S. Africa...no one had the muscular development, striation, definition, balance, superb overall shape, size and aesthetic beauty.  If Franco had been the one Arnold had to worry about beating, Franco would not have been allowed to compete (he probably would have been encouraged to wait until the next year). Your argument is convoluted. What Franco did the following year in comparison with Ken Waller (who was not as great as Serge...is that why you don't even name or show a picture of him to compare) have anything to do with the 1975 contest? It's irrelevant. You might as well talk about Bigfoot. The reason I showed the pictures and documents of IFBB, Ben, Serge, Arnold is so I don't have to convince anyone of anything. The evidence and records speak for themselves. Go for the fine print to see. History's artifacts tell the story. My point is not so much who should win; it's that things should be fair and history should be remembered accurately. Otherwise the game/sport of bodybuilding and whole process of judging a contest has no value. They banned him in S. Africa from competing in '75. But when they saw that he stopped training, dropped 20 lbs. and his spirit was broken down, they felt the playing field was leveled, so they let him back in the last minute...otherwise he would have still been out.  I answered this previously thinking you were asking why they didn't ban Serge permanently from the IFBB. He quit after the 1975 Olympia. 

Everything Made In Motana said is True, even the great one Serge backed the facts in detail, who would have won if Serge had the physique he had before he was banned Arnold of course the same that happened to Sergio in 72 but it would have created an unfavourable glow to Arnolds win.
AS Said by Joe Weider i can sell x amount of magazines with Sergio on the cover or 3x times the magazines with Arnold on the cover.
Utter political Bullshit.
One more thing on my rant i can see why Mike Menzter retired on stage at theMrO80

[JimmyThomson]

As Arnold said : "the little guy who doesn't have it hides away when he poses whereas the big guy will come sight out with it".
Serge always hid away when he posed, always a variation of a slighly sideways hands down most muscular pose to maximise what little muscle he had. When he hit a straight on double Bi everything dissapeared. No wonder Lou beat him in 1974 and Tony Emmot in 1977 and Bertil Fox in 1978.
He lost 20 lbs in 2 weeks ?  What does that say about his training and drug usage?   Serge was good but not great except in his own mind.

[slaveboy1980]

jimmy: do you know a guy named henry akunde?

[TheDoctor]

As Arnold said : "the little guy who doesn't have it hides away when he poses whereas the big guy will come sight out with it".
Serge always hid away when he posed, always a variation of a slighly sideways hands down most muscular pose to maximise what little muscle he had. When he hit a straight on double Bi everything dissapeared. No wonder Lou beat him in 1974 and Tony Emmot in 1977 and Bertil Fox in 1978.
He lost 20 lbs in 2 weeks ?  What does that say about his training and drug usage?   Serge was good but not great except in his own mind.

Retarded post.

[JimmyThomson]

See what I mean ?  The big boys are hitting basic poses head on. Serge is doing his usual side on compression pose to hide his multitude of weaknesses.

[JimmyThomson]

Clear enough for you "TheDoctor" ?

[efirkey]

would Mike Mentzer have quite if Arnold would have finished anything but first? or was Mike more upset about his own placement?

[apollo99]

Lou biggest mistake was being born. As far as his father was concerned he might have been a prick but he pushed Lou to success. When Lou went to Africa to compete against Arnold in the Olympia they first stopped in France for a guest posing expo and Lou was Booed off the stage because he was too heavy. His dad in the next 7 days before the Olympia made him run in 90 degree plus weather to lose the excess weight and he came in a few pounds over weight and came in third. Why does everyone feel sorry for this waste of life who screws everyone who he comes in contact with. Her is a first class P.O.S.

[BEAST 8692]

if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.

serge never presented a physique on stage that was competitive with arnold. end of story. getting stiffed by weider absolutely sucks, but...put it this way, could anyone ever see arnold copping that bs or dropping the ball and, after all the prep, just lie down in defeat 2 weeks before the o?

ferrigno never produced a physique anywhere near close to mr o quality and completeness. end of story.

the difference between 1970's lou and 20 years later was simply more drugs (not cardio - lmao), probably the biggest factor was the addition of gh and igf 1.

ferrigno pulled out all the stops and everything money could buy (read: drugs) on this one, including the calf implants. he desperately needed this one for closure and really thought he was big enough to pull it off, hence the doco drama of sorts at the masters.

unfortunately he still (20 years later) failed to understand that simply adding copious quantities of ripped beef does not equal mr olympia glory.

[alexxx]

I would have liked to see Serge hit the poses straight on like Jimmy pointed out. There is always a little twist in his posing that distracts you from seeing him for what he really is. Not taking anything away from Serge. I think we could compare fairly well in most poses.

[MarvinEderFan]

Exactly. Serge was NEVER. Mr. O material, and these attempts at making it sound like he was are pathetic.

Serge disappears in the usual poses when compared to others.

[Danimal77]

240, how old are you? You really keep messing up dates and the history of bodybuilding. First off, Lou was not 20 when he filmed Pumping Iron in 1975. He was 24. He did not have a learning disability. He did not come in 12th in 1994. He made his comeback in 1992 at 41 years of age, where he placed 12th. the following year (1993) he placed 10th at 318 pounds (NOT 315 pounds) and in 1994, at the Masters he was down to 298 pounds, placing behind R. Robbinson. Hope this helps son.

[MCWAY]

Anyone who looks at Serge's bearded picture and others like it when he first arrived to S. Africa will not agree with you. The old schoolers call him "The Uncrowned Mr. Olympia." IFBB pros, organizers and bodybuilding legends have said it. He still beat Ferrigno AFTER losing 20 lbs. after being told for several weeks he was not allowed to compete...when his spirit and physique were broken down from being wrongly defamed and the friendship betrayed. You completely ignore the main point--that bad sportsmanship was shown; Serge was treated unfair.  If you discuss Serge's '75 O physique with disregard to what happened to him, you will be seen as someone with a blind spot so large you lack credibility.

Before you talk about blind spots and lacking credibility, it would help if you actually read and comprehend what I ACTUALLY posted.

My response of "He only beat Ferrigno" was a DIRECT refutation of your claim, "He still beat Lou and everyone except Arnold landing second place.", which is incorrect. Serge Nubret did not compete, head-to-head, with any of the under-200-lb. class competitors. That means he did not beat Franco Columbu; he did not beat ED Corney; he did not beat Albert Beckles. Nubret's direct competiton consisted of two guys: Arnold Schwarzenegger and Lou Ferrigno. Since Arnold placed first and Serge placed second, it means that what I said was accurate: He (Nubret) only beat Ferrigno.

I did not say I was sure he would beat Schwarzenegger.  THE WEIDERS said it clearly by disqualifying Serge for no reason...waiting to do it after he arrives there showing his condition and not letting him compete until he was broken down in size, weight and spirit. Look at pictures of Serge when he got to S. Africa...no one had the muscular development, striation, definition, balance, superb overall shape, size and aesthetic beauty.  If Franco had been the one Arnold had to worry about beating, Franco would not have been allowed to compete (he probably would have been encouraged to wait until the next year). Your argument is convoluted. What Franco did the following year in comparison with Ken Waller (who was not as great as Serge...is that why you don't even name or show a picture of him to compare) have anything to do with the 1975 contest? It's irrelevant.

Another lapse of comprehension on your part. My question didn't ask if you were sure that Nubret would have beaten Schwarzenegger, but rather it was what makes you sure that (had he beaten Schwarzenegger) Nubret would have defeated Columbu for the overall.

That also addresses your earlier inaccurate statement that Serge beat everybody, except Arnold. Said another way, we know that Arnold was "numero uno" at the '75 Olympia. But, who was #2: The runner-up in the over-100-lb. class (Nubret) or the winner of the under-200-lb. class (Columbu)?

Your argument is convoluted. What Franco did the following year in comparison with Ken Waller (who was not as great as Serge...is that why you don't even name or show a picture of him to compare) have anything to do with the 1975 contest? It's irrelevant. You might as well talk about Bigfoot. The reason I showed the pictures and documents of IFBB, Ben, Serge, Arnold is so I don't have to convince anyone of anything. The evidence and records speak for themselves. Go for the fine print to see. History's artifacts tell the story. My point is not so much who should win; it's that things should be fair and history should be remembered accurately. Otherwise the game/sport of bodybuilding and whole process of judging a contest has no value. They banned him in S. Africa from competing in '75. But when they saw that he stopped training, dropped 20 lbs. and his spirit was broken down, they felt the playing field was leveled, so they let him back in the last minute...otherwise he would have still been out.  I answered this previously thinking you were asking why they didn't ban Serge permanently from the IFBB. He quit after the 1975 Olympia. 

If any thing is irrevelant, it's all this blubbering of yours, as it relates to the Pumping Iron movie, which is the subject of this thread, for one simple reason (One more time!!!): The movie was a "docu-drama".

I mentioned Columbu and Waller in the '76 Olympia to make the point that winning the over-200-lb. class was not a lock for winning the overall Mr. Olympia title, again addressing your inaccurate statement that Nubret beat everyone at the '75 Olympia, except Arnold.

In fact, from 1976 to 1980, the over-200-lb. class winners LOST the overall. If Frank Zane, who was smaller than Franco Columbu (Zane was taller but not as thick or massive) can beat Mike Mentzer and Robby Robinson (two men, especially Robinson, who were much more massive and thicker than Serge Nubret....even with those 20 extra lbs.), then Columbu definitely could have defeated Serge Nubret, had the Frenchman gotten by the Oak for the over-200-lb. class award.

[efirkey]

I will say Serge looks tremendously better and harder in the photos that are not competition photos, which makes me believe that he could never dial it in when it counted.

[MCWAY]

would Mike Mentzer have quite if Arnold would have finished anything but first? or was Mike more upset about his own placement?

If anyone should have been complaining, it was runner-up Chris Dickerson. He had little problem with his placing.

Mentzer's beef was more with Schwarzenegger than anything else. Even if Dickerson had won and the Oak had placed second, Mentzer would have still been in fifth....BEHIND Arnold.

Mentzer was also miffed about Arnold being the holdup for abolishing the weight classes. I guess Arnold liked things as they were. Maybe he was thinking, "I'm going to beat all you guys anyway; so in the grand scheme of things who cares who's #2."

I think all that bickering about the weight classes was really about the other competitors, getting a leg-up, particularly the runners-up in the weight classes. Usually, the runner-up in a contest gets a lot of hype and publicity and is viewed at the number-one contender, sometimes favored to win the following year. Prior to 1980, the class winner, who lost the overall, was viewed as the number one contender.

[MarvinEderFan]

Made in Montana wrote: "In all fairness..in terms of posing...I don't think these guys synchronized to hit the exact pose at exactly the same time always so it's hard to be critical about how they are standing in comparison to one another every moment."

No. Find any pic of Serge hitting a NORMAL pose and we can find a pic of Arnold dwarfing him in that same pose.

Oh and also, you say tastes are different. True. Then your judging criteria simply differ from those of the olympia judges, cause Serge would NOT have won even in that peak condition.

[bmacsys]

Wishful thinking; he never had muscle maturity or Arnold's refinement or volume, and nothing in his personality screamed winner.



Arnold IMO being nice saying Lou could've won in the 70s i don't think he was ever better than Nubret, Fox, Oliva, Padilla, etc..

I don't think Arnold was playing any head games with that statement. I have an old SI from 1974 or 1975 and Arnold is interviewed. He said if he had Louie's body for 30 days he could build a body that would be better than his own.

[pumpster]

I will say Serge looks tremendously better and harder in the photos that are not competition photos, which makes me believe that he could never dial it in when it counted.

Ludicrous assumption. Also watch a movie called Pumping Iron.

[pumpster]

What part of "docu-drama" didn't you understand?

Furthermore, Pumping Iron would have been filmed with or without Arnold. Without him, it wouldn't have done as well. Remember that he wanted to be in the movie, but he didn't want to compete. George Butler didn't want it like that. If Arnold didn't compete, Butler wasn't going to put him in the film.

According to Arnold, the investors thought a lot of the footage was boring. That's a reason why they set up scenes to make things interesting, such as Ken Waller's "plot" to fluster Mike Katz by hiding his T-shirt. As you may know, that scene (with Waller, Robby Robinson, and another guy whose name I can't remember, throwing the football around) was shot after the Universe.

The movie does a nice transition: From Arnold guest-posing at a prison, to pics of him in the magazines, to an amateur (looking up to Arnold) getting tips from the Oak, to that amateur competing in a local show, to Mike Katz guest-posing at that show, to Katz's background (starting with him playing with his kids), to his commentary on his competition at the Universe and seeing Waller as his chief competition, to the football scene with Waller and crew, listening to Waller criticize Katz's physique he plans to "mess his (Katz's) mind up a little bit".

With Franco Columbu, the only interesting thing the filmmakers could do was have him move that car in his old home country of Sardinia.

Most of what I've just mentioned takes a good chunk of time from the film, WITHOUT Schwarzenegger involved at all. The films showcase two contests: The Universe and the Olympia. They wanted to make each contest appear to be a two-man show: The Mr. Universe, being between Katz and Waller; and the Mr. Olympia, between Ferrigno and Schwarzenegger.

That helped make the film more intriguing, setting up the "mind games", supposedly pulled off by Waller and Schwarzenegger on Katz and Ferrigno, respectively.

No, get it right. It was promoted & launched as a documentary. The revisionist & more accurate docu-drama label wasn't used until much much later. The movie purported to be a realistic depiction in fact the documentary tag was used as a way of giving it veracity as a serious representation.

[pumpster]

Exactly. Serge was NEVER. Mr. O material, and these attempts at making it sound like he was are pathetic.

Serge disappears in the usual poses when compared to others.

Innacurate; it would have mattered who he'd competed against. Against some of the lesser lights who won the Olympia mid-70s to mid-80s he'd have won somewhere along the line in fair shows.

[pumpster]

I don't buy the "Serge was better than Arnold" deal. Every pic I've seen Arnold owns the competition (his arms and back were better than Nubret) and if Nubret was the natural you believe him to be, Montana, why would he drop 20 lbs.
It's a one-sided story. And you've only heard it from Nubret.

Who said he was better than Arnold?

However, he was better than most or all the mid-70s to mid-80s Olympia winners. He and a few others like Padilla and Robinson who also got screwed and would've won fair shows.

[pumpster]

As Arnold said : "the little guy who doesn't have it hides away when he poses whereas the big guy will come sight out with it".
Serge always hid away when he posed, always a variation of a slighly sideways hands down most muscular pose to maximise what little muscle he had. When he hit a straight on double Bi everything dissapeared. No wonder Lou beat him in 1974 and Tony Emmot in 1977 and Bertil Fox in 1978.
He lost 20 lbs in 2 weeks ?  What does that say about his training and drug usage?   Serge was good but not great except in his own mind.

You really don't know BB to be able to say that. This is little muscle? Outside of Arnold & Sergio there was none better in the 70s. He was right there with Robinson & Padilla as uncrowned Olympians save for copious Weider contest politics and the so-so names who won various Olympias.

This beats Columbo, Zane, Dickerson and Bannout.

[MCWAY]

You really don't know BB to be able to say that. This is little muscle? Outside of Arnold & Sergio there was none better in the 70s. He was right there with Robinson & Padilla as uncrowned Olympians save for copious Weider contest politics and the so-so names who won various Olympias.

This beats Columbo, Zane, Dickerson and Bannout.

Did he compete, head-up, against Zane, or Columbu, or Dickerson, or Bannout?

Unless he did so, your continued "Serge wuz robbed" bleatings are little more that speculation.

You've yet to demonstrate that, had Nubret defeated Schwarzenegger in 1975, he would have gone onward to defeat Columbu for the overall title.