SICKO??? HEALTH CARE???

[The_Leafy_Bug]

No, it is not a human right.  You have no right to anything beyond what you earn from the moment you're born until the moment you die.  It bothers me that socialists now consider services provided by the work of others to be their "right".  You are no more entitled to health care paid for by others than you are entitled to any other property of theirs.

I had this discussion with my aunt.  This implies that socialized health care creates a healthier economy.  It does not.  Michael Moore says we should "eliminate the profit motive".  What offends me the most is that the only reason the quality of care in the USA is as high as it is is because of the profit motive - BECAUSE of capitalism - Michael Moore suggests that we can have the same degree of production and efficiency without a profit incentive!  This is so absurd it is pollution to my brain to even read it.  Without the profit motivator, production decreases or halts completely - it seems that just like basic economics, like the Second Amendment, is something Michael Moore has absolutely no idea about.

It's called the Big Tradeoff - fairness and efficiency. If the government forcibly redistributes the pie, the pie becomes smaller for everyone.

Moreover, perverse things happen in socialized medicine. Like 16-month waiting lists for surgery. Like three lithotripters in a major city, wheras in America there are 300 in a similar city. Like the system subsidizing the care of upper middle class people who could easily afford it themselves.

There is plenty of suffering in the world, and what galls me is the leftist view that redistributing money to the less well off in North America is the best place to do so. If you truly wanted to minimize suffering, you'd hand that money to starving Africans. I say, let a rich world renal victim die and spend the thousands of government dollars saving literally hundreds of people in Africa. THIS would be the compassionate thing to do. No?

Of course, the real way to minimize suffering is to have fair rules. Trade with Africans, have a large economy, and things will be best in the long run. Even if people die in the meantime.  Under socialist policies, MORE people die and get sick.  This is another thing that offends me about socialists, the fact that they don't understand that both capitalism and socialism cause harm, but capitalism causes the least amount of harm of the two.

Actually the competetion isn't taken out of it. If you watched the movie you'd see that. Doctors get paid better by how good their work is as opposed to here in the US where surgeons can have people dying on the table with every operation yet still be payed the same as a surgeon who is good.

[climber]

Actually the competetion isn't taken out of it. If you watched the movie you'd see that. Doctors get paid better by how good their work is as opposed to here in the US where surgeons can have people dying on the table with every operation yet still be payed the same as a surgeon who is good.

I live in New Zealand and the health care system is similar to England's (shown in the movie). We have good doctors here. Doctors for the most part are the same in every developed nation. The standard of education is high across the board... I don't prescribe to this silly notion that US surgeons/doctors are better... There's just more of some specialised surgeons in the US as it has a bigger population. When you need a highly specialised surgeon then it is just natural to go to the place where they are. The Health Care-Insurance coupled system in the US is definitely corrupt... just look at the salaries/payouts to some of their top dogs... Like, what the fuck? Your money should be better spent than that.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

I live in New Zealand and the health care system is similar to England's (shown in the movie). We have good doctors here. Doctors for the most part are the same in every developed nation. The standard of education is high across the board... I don't prescribe to this silly notion that US surgeons/doctors are better... There's just more of some specialised surgeons in the US as it has a bigger population. When you need a highly specialised surgeon then it is just natural to go to the place where they are. The Health Care-Insurance coupled system in the US is definitely corrupt... just look at the salaries/payouts to some of their top dogs... Like, what the fuck? Your money should be better spent than that.

Agreed... And MattC brings up all these points but i don't see any Canadians, French, Germans, English, etc complaining about their healthcare. Hell, they were afraid to leave Canada into the US without their form of national insurance in the movie.

[willie mosconi]

I live in New Zealand and the health care system is similar to England's (shown in the movie). We have good doctors here. Doctors for the most part are the same in every developed nation. The standard of education is high across the board... I don't prescribe to this silly notion that US surgeons/doctors are better... There's just more of some specialised surgeons in the US as it has a bigger population. When you need a highly specialised surgeon then it is just natural to go to the place where they are. The Health Care-Insurance coupled system in the US is definitely corrupt... just look at the salaries/payouts to some of their top dogs... Like, what the fuck? Your money should be better spent than that.

That's what  I was trying to get at

If the health care is so poor in western europe, australia, n. zealand, etc. why is the life expectancy in those countries roughly the same as the US? I know a lot of variables enter into life expectancy, but quality of health care is definitely a major factor

[The_Leafy_Bug]

That's what  I was trying to get at

If the health care is so poor in western europe, australia, n. zealand, etc. why is the life expectancy in those countries roughly the same as the US? I know a lot of variables enter into life expectancy, but quality of health care is definitely a major factor

Their life expectancy is higher then that of the US. The US has actually plummeted in life expectancy but that would mainly be due to the obesity epidemic (hahahah like it is some kind of disease... pathetic.)

[warrior_code]

Where I live (winnipeg) there is actually a clinic now that does medical procedures privately.  Many people who can afford to have their medical needs attended to will chose this place rather than wait 20 months.  Personally I think politicians and others such as micheal have no clue as to what the fuck they are talking about yet all have much to say. 

Matt, can you elaborate  on your statement with regards to the advancements in the medical industry being solely dependent upon profit seeking agendas. 

[triple_pickle]

We do not expect some people to get partial police and fire coverage, why should we expect people to get partial or no health coverage?

take american government 101 or public finance and you will understand....

[triple_pickle]

Seems to work fine in europe. Walk in and out for free with quality healthcare and doctors payed based on how good they are but if you like paying 60,000 out of your own pocket for a weeks stay in a hospital then i guess thats fine too. Vote democrat in 2008.

universal health care is not that great, both in europe and canada you can get it for free but try to schedule a simple surgery and the wait is like three months.  here in the states i was diagnosed with a hernia, had a surgery two days later.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

universal health care is not that great, both in europe and canada you can get it for free but try to schedule a simple surgery and the wait is like three months.  here in the states i was diagnosed with a hernia, had a surgery two days later.

Thats what i hear but Michael Moore specifically addresses this in the video.

[The Coach]

 I completely support universal health care.

Why???

[triple_pickle]

No, it is not a human right.  You have no right to anything beyond what you earn from the moment you're born until the moment you die.  It bothers me that socialists now consider services provided by the work of others to be their "right".  You are no more entitled to health care paid for by others than you are entitled to any other property of theirs.

I had this discussion with my aunt.  This implies that socialized health care creates a healthier economy.  It does not.  Michael Moore says we should "eliminate the profit motive".  What offends me the most is that the only reason the quality of care in the USA is as high as it is is because of the profit motive - BECAUSE of capitalism - Michael Moore suggests that we can have the same degree of production and efficiency without a profit incentive!  This is so absurd it is pollution to my brain to even read it.  Without the profit motivator, production decreases or halts completely - it seems that just like basic economics, like the Second Amendment, is something Michael Moore has absolutely no idea about.

It's called the Big Tradeoff - fairness and efficiency. If the government forcibly redistributes the pie, the pie becomes smaller for everyone.

Moreover, perverse things happen in socialized medicine. Like 16-month waiting lists for surgery. Like three lithotripters in a major city, wheras in America there are 300 in a similar city. Like the system subsidizing the care of upper middle class people who could easily afford it themselves.

There is plenty of suffering in the world, and what galls me is the leftist view that redistributing money to the less well off in North America is the best place to do so. If you truly wanted to minimize suffering, you'd hand that money to starving Africans. I say, let a rich world renal victim die and spend the thousands of government dollars saving literally hundreds of people in Africa. THIS would be the compassionate thing to do. No?

Of course, the real way to minimize suffering is to have fair rules. Trade with Africans, have a large economy, and things will be best in the long run. Even if people die in the meantime.  Under socialist policies, MORE people die and get sick.  This is another thing that offends me about socialists, the fact that they don't understand that both capitalism and socialism cause harm, but capitalism causes the least amount of harm of the two.

agree except the africa part.  if you simply send money over there, that will be more destructive in the long run to their incentives to produce anything themselves.  they need to learn responsibility, not fucck around, get HIV, and wait for foreign aid to come in.  if they cannot grow enough food to feed themselves, it means the continent is overpopulated, at least relative to the technology they have.

[bmacsys]

Kind of hard to have it both ways. We have a for profit sytem that generates money that goes into funding the best hospitals, most cutting edge equipment and no wait even for elective surgery and the best doctors. The downside is its very expensive. My mother inlaw in British Columbia literally has to travel 500 mile for dialysis. The state of Pennsylvania has more MRI machines than all of Canada.

[bmacsys]

im outta my league? i still dont know what youre trying to say. or what any of this has to do with my comment on adonis.

and with that three post meltdown you still havent answeed my question if youre a communist?

You are SO DUMB. What about the recent 8 years under Clinton? He did so much to reform the healthcare industry.

[bmacsys]

huh? you are a total nobody, a newly registered rookie and a possible gimmick account, comes into this thread all fired up because you just seen sicko and doesnt pay attention to the on going discussion.

if you wanna make a salute michael moore thread - feel free to do so. but its not on-topic here.

He is probably like 18 years old. The bug knows it all.

[bmacsys]

No, it is not a human right.  You have no right to anything beyond what you earn from the moment you're born until the moment you die.  It bothers me that socialists now consider services provided by the work of others to be their "right".  You are no more entitled to health care paid for by others than you are entitled to any other property of theirs.

I had this discussion with my aunt.  This implies that socialized health care creates a healthier economy.  It does not.  Michael Moore says we should "eliminate the profit motive".  What offends me the most is that the only reason the quality of care in the USA is as high as it is is because of the profit motive - BECAUSE of capitalism - Michael Moore suggests that we can have the same degree of production and efficiency without a profit incentive!  This is so absurd it is pollution to my brain to even read it.  Without the profit motivator, production decreases or halts completely - it seems that just like basic economics, like the Second Amendment, is something Michael Moore has absolutely no idea about.

It's called the Big Tradeoff - fairness and efficiency. If the government forcibly redistributes the pie, the pie becomes smaller for everyone.

Moreover, perverse things happen in socialized medicine. Like 16-month waiting lists for surgery. Like three lithotripters in a major city, wheras in America there are 300 in a similar city. Like the system subsidizing the care of upper middle class people who could easily afford it themselves.

There is plenty of suffering in the world, and what galls me is the leftist view that redistributing money to the less well off in North America is the best place to do so. If you truly wanted to minimize suffering, you'd hand that money to starving Africans. I say, let a rich world renal victim die and spend the thousands of government dollars saving literally hundreds of people in Africa. THIS would be the compassionate thing to do. No?

Of course, the real way to minimize suffering is to have fair rules. Trade with Africans, have a large economy, and things will be best in the long run. Even if people die in the meantime.  Under socialist policies, MORE people die and get sick.  This is another thing that offends me about socialists, the fact that they don't understand that both capitalism and socialism cause harm, but capitalism causes the least amount of harm of the two.

Very well said.

[240 is Back]

whats' a good health insurance for self-insured folks to pick up?   We restructured when baby was born and the jump from "self and 1 child" to "full family" coverage was insane, so I haven't had any for a few months.  I figured I'd add on later when we started baby #2, but not having coverage is unnerving.  

Any complanies/links to recommend?

[bmacsys]

The best doctors in the world, regardless of their ethnicity or nationality, come to America to practice.  That's a fact.

All the wealthy sheiks in the middle-east who have bucketloads of money come to the USA for treatment. Its always in the news.

[bmacsys]

Agreed... And MattC brings up all these points but i don't see any Canadians, French, Germans, English, etc complaining about their healthcare. Hell, they were afraid to leave Canada into the US without their form of national insurance in the movie.

No shit. Why should they get free healthcare in the USA?

[bmacsys]

Thats what i hear but Michael Moore specifically addresses this in the video.

No, he didn't even broach these things. He is so one-sided its ridiculous. Kinda like you.

[CARTEL]

This Michael Moore is a piece of sh*t.

He makes these crappy movies like he's saving the world and when someone calls him on his bullsh*t, he calls it satire.

Ask him about his stock in Halliburton. Preachy ass mofo.

[Brutal_1]

This Michael Moore is a piece of sh*t.

He makes these crappy movies like he's saving the world and when someone calls him on his bullsh*t, he calls it satire.

Ask him about his stock in Halliburton. Preachy ass mofo.

Maybe so, maybe not....what does that have to do with the health care system in the US being in shambles???

Like him or not...this movie is needed

[CARTEL]

Maybe so, maybe not....what does that have to do with the health care system in the US being in shambles???

Like him or not...this movie is needed

My healthcare is awesome so I'm not complaining. For those people that think they can't get any healthcare, just look at all the illegals getting just that all the while crowding up our emergency rooms. There isn't one place that has a good universal health plan so why do you think we should?

[Undercover Supp Guy]

Ask him about his stock in Halliburton. Preachy ass mofo.

Come on now, the guy's not into Halliburton.  He's got mutual funds that might have been in that company if they're even public but my guess is he divested from that once he found out.  Go after him & his film's content because it's much easier and he's a huge douche'.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

No shit. Why should they get free healthcare in the USA?

Good thing you said that. In the movie an American breaks his arm in the UK and gets free medical care and a nights stay in the hospital.

[Undercover Supp Guy]

Good thing you said that. In the movie an American breaks his arm in the UK and gets free medical care and a nights stay in the hospital.

And you don't think that hospital tried to collect from the guy or his insurer?  They just don't give that shit away..