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Author Topic: Re: Pitbulls...........again  (Read 8923 times)
Luv2Hurt
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« Reply #150 on: July 13, 2007, 07:56:40 PM »

I'm not up to speed on this thread, but it's usually the same old argument so here's my take on this particular post........

the # of "attacks" isn't disporportionate, it's only disproportionately reported, and like body88 was trying to infer, many others breeds are lumped in as pitbulls. What if all retrievers and labs and hounds were lumped together as hunting dogs, would the # of hunting dog "attacks" go up? of course they would, you would be lumping several breeds together, just like they do with "pitbulls"

Do you really thinks deaths by dogs are not reported and tracked?  Thats what the study was about: Deaths caused by dogs by breed.

Yeah your right the deaths caused by shitzu's was left out, to make pits and rots look bad  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #151 on: July 13, 2007, 07:59:25 PM »

Do you really thinks deaths by dogs are not reported and tracked?  Thats what the study was about: Deaths caused by dogs by breed.

Yeah your right the deaths caused by shitzu's was left out  Roll Eyes

Total denial.
Ask OL for his Pitt story.

Pitty about her face, Cry her own dogs she raised from pups, never showed a bit a agression before. Huh
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« Reply #152 on: July 13, 2007, 08:03:58 PM »

The bottom line is APBT's are large, powerful dogs.  They are capable of damaging bites, just like any other large powerful dog breed.  They should be owned by responsible pet owners, which includes people who take the time to train the dog for basic commands, leash walking, monitor the location of the dog--be it inside or outside--and above all don't allow their large dog to get into a situation where negative things could happen.  

Well gosh thank God we know someone will always have control of the dog for its whole life, and that it will never get out. 

Whos monitering them again.....a wide range of humans?  Well we can rest assured with that.
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« Reply #153 on: July 13, 2007, 08:08:12 PM »

Fortunately the Dog has more sense than a lot of the owners, its a wonder theres not a killing a day.
Just wait till theres the RIGHT event.
Sumfin that'll make mr. Benoit look tame.
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« Reply #154 on: July 13, 2007, 08:08:15 PM »

Well gosh thank God we know someone will always have control of the dog for its whole life, and that it will never get out. 

Whos monitering them again.....a wide range of humans?  Well we can rest assured with that.
same people that are monitoring the illegal aliens crossing our borders, you know the same ones who are monitoring the gang bangers buying illegal weapons and drugs from the trunk of a car in broad daylight.

geez....some people  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #155 on: July 13, 2007, 08:09:54 PM »

I'm not up to speed on this thread, but it's usually the same old argument so here's my take on this particular post........



well i can bring you up to speed.   that question has been answered over, over and over agian on this thread.   various posters have given reasons why those stats are not accurate.   i have posted information from the countries leading authority on this topic who has given reason why those stats are not accurate. as well as her studies of over 400 cases of fatal dog attacks and not finding ONE documented case of a household pitbull ever being the cause of a fatality.

certain people are goin to have their opinions of pitbulls and nothing is goin to change their mind.  it doesnt really matter what the facts are.
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« Reply #156 on: July 13, 2007, 08:15:17 PM »

well i can bring you up to speed.   that question has been answered over, over and over agian on this thread.   various posters have given reasons why those stats are not accurate.   i have posted information from the countries leading authority on this topic who has given reason why those stats are not accurate. as well as her studies of over 400 cases of fatal dog attacks and not finding ONE documented case of a household pitbull ever being the cause of a fatality.

certain people are goin to have their opinions of pitbulls and nothing is goin to change their mind.  it doesnt really matter what the facts are.
thanks for the update, yes some people hAVe their opinions and thats fine, whatever. And I have mine, and my pits and it will be a long day for anyone trying to take them Kiss
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« Reply #157 on: July 14, 2007, 04:21:11 AM »

all I gotta say is I have three small children,and If by chance some pit did maul one of them and some guys like you came up to me later trying to tell me it wasn't the dogs fault.I'd be the one doin the mauling.
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« Reply #158 on: July 14, 2007, 04:30:25 AM »

all I gotta say is I have three small children,and If by chance some pit did maul one of them and some guys like you came up to me later trying to tell me it wasn't the dogs fault.I'd be the one doin the mauling.


Right on! I bet you wouldnt much care what happend to you either, I wouldnt.

My Kid is worth more to me than EVERY K9 on the planet. Thats the way most parrents feel.

Lots of Americans CANT form relations w/ humans, so they treat dogs like them.
 They are animals that react, not people w/ complex reasoning powers.
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« Reply #159 on: July 14, 2007, 09:10:33 AM »

First of all what do steroids have to do with any of this?

Second if you read my posts I was the very first one here to say that not all these types of dogs are bad.  The ones that are properly raised, submissive, well socialized, and kept are not a problem. I have been around some that are fine.  I also said ANY dog can be a problem if not properly taken care of.

And lastly how many purebreed pitbulls do you even think are out there? So I will say again "pitbull type" is a fine example of the group. What do you guys say "well it only LOOKS just like a pitbull"?

You and vet have still not answered the real question which you continue to avoid and that is why the hugely disproportionate # of attacks and killings by these breeds?



There are plenty of pure bred pitbulls out there.  A pitbull type is not a good example of a group. I dint know how many times we have to tell you this. A American bulldog is NOT a pitbull. A press Canario is NOT a pitbull. A dogo is NOT a pitbull. A boxer is NOT a pitbull. Do you consider German Shepard's Akita's? If you look at the breed specifications for all the dogs that have been lumped into a pitbull type they are all vastly different. A American staffy terrier is a recognized breed by the akc. It is not considered a pitbull.

No one is avoiding any question. The study hedge posted was proven to be inaccurate after it came out. The information in the study IS NOT ACCURATE. You cannot lump several breeds into one group, take the incidents of biting or fatality and then call them pitbulls.  People who know little about dogs mistake my puppy for a large pitbull all the time. In this picture he was 80 lbs at around 10 months old. That would be a huge pit. But people who know little about pitbulls bulls in general asked said "thats a big pitbull" time after time. Fact is my dog is NOT a pitbull. If he ever did bite someone ( which he never would) and he ran away it would go down as a pitbull attack. I doubt someone would say I was bitten by a 1 year old standard/johnson "hybrid" type American bulldog!!!! You may say meh its a pitbull type. Nope, look up the breed.


The vet and I have answered your question. When a get a little time I will post my research of hundreds of fatal / serious dog attacks perpitrated by breeds like labs collies and even Pomeranian. Just a few months ago a Pomeranian killed a small child on a bed. You never hear about these things because they are not sensational.

The higher incident rate with pitbulls has to do with the dog fighters and low life element that has latched on to the breed. More abused/ neglected / exploited dogs = more attacks. How many gangsters in the hood have labs protecting there drug house? How many low lifes promote aggressive behavior and feed there goldies gun powder? How many tough guys who have no idea how to properly handle a powerful dog own collies? Also, the fact that several breeds are lumped into one group. The total number of deaths is minuscule. That inaccurate list says 12 deaths per year? You have more chance of being killed by a shark or hit by lightning. A much better chance. Please take a look at this temperament chart. Shoots huge holes in several of your arguments.




Temperament Test Results
 
The American Temperament Test Society conducts tests every year on thousands of dogs to determine the soundness of their temperament.  The American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier routinely and consistently rank in the average range, and well above many "popular" breeds such as the beagle, collie, doberman pinscher, cocker spaniel and great dane.  (Source:  American Temperament Test Society)
 
 
 Alfons Estelt of the American Temperament Test Society, Inc., stated the following with respect to pit bulls: "The American Pit Bull Terriers participating in our temperament evaluation have thus far shown a passing rate of 95%. The other 121 breeds of dogs in our tests showed the average passing rate of 77%"







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« Reply #160 on: July 14, 2007, 09:18:53 AM »

all I gotta say is I have three small children,and If by chance some pit did maul one of them and some guys like you came up to me later trying to tell me it wasn't the dogs fault.I'd be the one doin the mauling.

And what if a black lab did the mauling? What would you do then. This is my puppy. He was 10 months old in this picture. He is a American bulldog. He is not a pitbull. He is often mistaken for a large pitbul. Not so much now since he is over 90 lbs but before he was ALWAYS mistaken for a pit. Many would include my American bull on a list of dangerous dogs.

If I ever got the chance to let you and your children meet my puppy I bet you would come away with a dif attitude towards these type of breeds. He is like a huge teddy bear and he LOVES kids. My 2 year old nephew especially.

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« Reply #161 on: July 14, 2007, 12:01:28 PM »

You are right he not a pit. He dont have fighting in his make up like a pitt.
Oh, He can bite real good, but he aint a pitt. Hes also nowhere near as likely as a pit to be a problem.
He is also not as tenatious.
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« Reply #162 on: July 14, 2007, 12:14:21 PM »

You are right he not a pit. He dont have fighting in his make up like a pitt.
Oh, He can bite real good, but he aint a pitt. Hes also nowhere near as likely as a pit to be a problem.
He is also not as tenatious

American bulls are part old english bulldog. The original fighting dog. American bulls are renowed for being courageous and fearless, but also very gentle and caring towards family and kids. That is why they are used for hunting boar and protection work so much. Ab's are used for hunting, guarding and working. They are large, strong and very,very athletic. That makes them the perfect working dog for many applications. Ab's are great on farms because they can protect the farm, work, and be a great family pet. There are a bunch of types of American bulldogs. The standard/scott type ( looks like big pitbull, longer nose 70 - 130 lbs) The Johnson type ( short muzzle heavy bones (80 - 150lbs) The hybrid type, standard + johnson which my dog is (70 - 130). There are a few other lines including painters and old English whites, but the ones listed above are the main lines.

Ab's love children and make wonderful companions. Extremely loyal, loving, fearless and goofy are words I would use to describe the breed. Extremely stable and sure. Best dog I have ever owned. My dog is so gentle with my nephew. He adores him.
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« Reply #163 on: July 14, 2007, 12:54:45 PM »

So when your pittbull attacks your kid (because you even say they're going to snap one day)

Make sure you blast them both with a shotgun.

Don't worry...Uncle Sam will pay for it.

The reason I said is because you believe this:


Sticking they heads over the top is what I mean by hanging, even high wood fences.
Theres a pair of Pitts next to my sisters house that constantly climb up & stick their heads over the top of a 6'
wood fence. They can climb that fence if they want. How about a little kid walking his dog? Stops to Pee on THEIR spot some day?  Once ONE goes off, BOTH go off. Ever break some pitts up? Cheers...

Tip for large dog attack on child - 44 mag or .357mag or 20ga shotgun minimal. Might Need several 9mm or .38spl rds unless you tag 'em square in the head. You can just shoot 'em in the flank w/ the big bores and they'll release the kid. Those smaller handguns just dont have the stopping power for larger animals. 
And  THAT  is ALSO what should happen to the Owners of one that mauls anyone IMO.


my retort is if you are using a shotgun to stop a pitbull...you are going to end up shooting your kid in the process.  If you stand 10-15 feet away shooting a dog in the flanks with a shotgun....you are going to hit your child with about 15-25% of the shot (on average).  Even during a struggle...your child's head, arm, leg could be in the way & that would result in a fatality of your child.

make sure you READ before you open your mouth again.  I am not suggesting you to kill your child....I am suggesting your particular stopping methods of a pitbull attack could result a fatality by your own hands.

What disturbs me is the reply in pm saying "Well, the kids dead anyways".

In another words....it suggests that you don't care of trying to get your child out in one piece let a lone alive because they are "dead anyways".

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« Reply #164 on: July 14, 2007, 12:57:12 PM »

It would give the dogs higher value.

It would mean that instead of owning two, three or four dogs, a person would have to settle with maybe one dog, and pay that much more attention to it.

But mainly, it would probably scare away a lot of people who are unfit to own dogs.

Those people wouldn't get dogs, simply because of the slight hassle and cost involved.

Only those who are really committed, persons like you flower, would still be in the game.

For those committed however, the insurance would equal a better service for their loved one.

-Hedge


Man I agree w/ the Insh thing.  Have you ever spent much time in the States? It is SO different here.

By value, I mean ... Ok, lets say a dogs life is at stake or a child. Which is more improtant.?

If my neighbors Rottie is killing a child, should the animal be killed if necessary to save the child?

Most PPL will say yes. But I dont know about Kenny if it were his dog.
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« Reply #165 on: July 14, 2007, 01:00:42 PM »


Man I agree w/ the Insh thing.  Have you ever spent much time in the States? It is SO different here.

By value, I mean ... Ok, lets say a dogs life is at stake or a child. Which is more improtant.?

If my neighbors Rottie is killing a child, should the animal be killed if necessary to save the child?

Most PPL will say yes. But I dont know about Kenny if it were his dog.

I have no problem killing a dog to save a child's life.

I WOULDN"T use a shotgun as YOU WOULD SUGGEST....because the end result could end up killing the child in the process.
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« Reply #166 on: July 14, 2007, 02:07:04 PM »

Hedgie is talking about HEALTH INSURANCE FOR DOG CARE, not LIABILITY INSURANCE FOR IF YOUR DOG BITES SOMEONE.

  PLEASE READ!! THIS HAS BEEN CLARIFIED ALREADY.
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« Reply #167 on: July 14, 2007, 02:07:32 PM »

Just pass the law.

i have a true american pitbull terrier who hasnt been chained, neglected or abused so i dont need the insurance.
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« Reply #168 on: July 14, 2007, 02:09:19 PM »

Hedgie is talking about HEALTH INSURANCE FOR DOG CARE, not LIABILITY INSURANCE FOR IF YOUR DOG BITES SOMEONE.

  PLEASE READ!! THIS HAS BEEN CLARIFIED ALREADY.


my bad on the above post....thought it was on the liability ins.
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« Reply #169 on: July 14, 2007, 02:12:01 PM »

I think the topic Hedgie brought (mandatory health insurance for pets) up could be started in a separate thread because it is causing confusion in this thread.

  I split those posts into a separate thread on that topic to stop the confusion in this thread.
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