Mike Mentzer training on HITting biceps

[240 is Back]

did we ever learn what killed his brother right after him?  Seems so odd that they'd both check out the same week.

[D.L. 5]

The footage would be more shocking than anything else. When I was on HIT people in the gym would watch me like I was out of my fucking mind. And they'd watch me struggling with baby weights it was a bit embarassing.

this comment is funny.

after reading ur comment, i go do my workout and what happens:

90 pounds leg extensions x 7 reps failure pre-exhaust directly to squats 50 pounds x 2 1/2 rep failure lol.

baby weights but with h.i.t it is monstrous. the slow reps kill ya.

[MarvinEderFan]

I did 31 reps with 100 lbs on straight barbell curls.

Would this have made Mentzer proud??


 

 

[D.L. 5]

I did 31 reps with 100 lbs on straight barbell curls.

Would this have made Mentzer proud??


 

 

He would have adopted you 

[240 is Back]

did we ever learn what killed his brother right after him?  Seems so odd that they'd both check out the same week.

anyone? 

[figgs]

anyone? 

Kidney failure is what I read. He was on dialysis for a while before his death.

[BroadStreetBruiser]

Now I know what training with the guy who hangs out at the deli all day talking to the hired help would be like.

[Camel Jockey]

How's it feel training biceps while high on meth?   

[D.L. 5]

anyone? 

using my logic, and knowing how close the brothers were...my opinion is ray, so devastated by his brohters death, being bed ridden on dialysis every day not even being able to help himself, decided it would be better to die than live without his brother, etc like he had nothing to live for. so he would have just stopped the dialysis and died.

[The Ugly]

I knew a CHP who once arrested Mike posing naked alongside the 405, crying about "fucking Arnold." He was too big to cuff; said they had to double 'em up to get his hands together.

True story. I had to tell him who Mentzer was.

[Camel Jockey]

Was he high on meth during the arrest?

[BigNBloated]

What a sad story. Mentzer looked incredible IMO during his peak. Ive been reading about him lately, most claim these health problems "ran in the family".

[D.L. 5]

What a sad story. Mentzer looked incredible IMO during his peak. Ive been reading about him lately, most claim these health problems "ran in the family".

in the 90's he was fine.

in the 80's was when he went off the rails.

alot of these stories are bull, its hard to tell which ones are true.

[BigNBloated]

Id go off the rails if Arnold stole my Olympia. -Ugh- 

[D.L. 5]

Id go off the rails if Arnold stole my Olympia. -Ugh- 

MIKE SHOULD HAVE WON IT!

WE ALL KNOW IT.

EVEN TOM PLATZ SAID MIKE LOOKED AMAZING AND HIS BEST EVER!

[Bluto]

mike should've won it? was that when he ended up 4th or something

[D.L. 5]

mike should've won it? was that when he ended up 4th or something

yeah 4th! (D.L.5 proceeds to puke and slap a picture of Joe Weider several times, before removing the picture off a wall and wiping his ass with it)

"INJUSTICE!" MENTZER IS AN UNCROWNED MR. OLYMPIA!

[Vince B]

once again the cerebrally challenged bag HIT because they dont have a clue.

comments like ''i tried it for a week'', and ''i got so weak on my normal exercises'' show just how you guys dont get it.

so rather than just bag it because you think you understand it but really dont have a clue, just admit that you dont understand it therefore cant apply it.

it follows the most basic of premises and fundamentals of human adaptation to demand. it cannot be wrong.

it applies the exact same principles you mongs already use but extends it to a level that optimises the response.

key factors are rest and time for the neuroloigcal pathways to learn- but not master- responses neurologically and muscularly........

thats why you seem to stop growing when doing the same routine day in day out. and thats why you dont grow when you always change your routine.

you have to expose yourself to a routine or method for enough time to learn it, then maximise the results...then subtly change it. And by change that doesnt mean put more weight on...thats why the high rep advocates get results too.

It is one thing to believe you have the right theory and another to actually be right. I have tried the HIT method over the years and was impressed with what Arthur Jones wrote. He did achieve a good result with Sergio. A great result, even. However, the program Sergio did for legs, for example, wasn't pure HIT principles but a volume workout. Especially if you eventually repeated the 3 exercises twice.

The key criticism I have of HIT is what stimulus actually triggers hypertrophy. I take it Arthur and others reasoned that the muscle would not grow unless some unusual demand was placed on the muscle. It remains to be seen if the training to failure is a requirement for growth. I know it is not. In that video clip Mike is claiming that the last almost undoable rep is the one imposing new demands on the muscle and it is the rep that triggers growth. Nope, that is not what happens. If you accumulate lots of last reps in a workout you might have a better chance of growing. Why? Well, big muscles are for endurance workouts. By endurance I mean set after set with heavy weights. That is what almost all big bodybuilders do. It is the common factor that accounts for their size.

Here is an actual goal I had about 8 years ago. I was seeing if I could make my arms grow again. So I tried to apply the principles I knew about applying mechanical tension to a muscle of a certain maximum amount, for a certain length of time. I concluded it was about 1 to 2 minutes of intense mechanical tension that induced hypertrophy. Well, I was floating along and finally hit 17inch cold upper arms. Then the growth stopped. No matter how much mechanical tension I put on my biceps and triceps they did not grow. My arms were literally shaking when I finished those brutal workouts. So one day I decided to include lying triceps extensions instead of pressdowns for triceps. Voila, my arms grew over night and they were really sore the next day. How was it possible to get a trained muscle sore like that? A light went on in my head and now I understood why I had not grown rapidly all those years previously when training. Lots of things are important but a few are necessary. The necessary thing for triceps is to train them in a stretched position with elbows restricted. Then do heaps of sets with the maximum resistance after a thorough warmup. Also, don't ever let elbows touch any pads for biceps or triceps work. You will damage the sheath covering the elbow and be sore for the rest of your life. Be careful. Once my arms were sore I kept them sore for a month and they measured 18 inches cold at the end. I didn't know then not to rub the elbows on the pads so they got sore and I had to stop. I resumed that kind of training years later and it always stimulates growth. A gym is not fully equipped without one of these machines.

Now, is there an equivalence between HIT and volume training? I doubt it. Some here are convinced HIT is the method. Well, it has been around a long time. HST has been around, too. Neither are optimal ways to train. They might work for a while on intermediate guys but I doubt advanced bodybuilders will grow much using those methods. If the theory doesn't work there is something wrong with the theory.

Arthur couldn't have missed the fact that big muscles aren't proportionally stronger than smaller muscles. Why not? Why can't guys like Sergio and Arnold curl over 300 pounds easily? Well, their muscles have adapted for another use. They can do set after set after set after set after set with a reasonably heavy weight. HIT can't do this and that is why the method ultimately is limited. I wish it were otherwise. I hate long workouts. After all these years it is disappointing to have to reject what Arthur and Mike and now Darden promote. Plainly that method is false. It cannot generate maximum hypertrophy because it misses the essential reason muscles need to get huge. Volume.

If we accept that typical bodybuilders are not dopes but neither Mensa members then it is clear the guys would have embraced HIT if that was required to get huge. The one guy who gave it a fair go got injured. Yep, HIT is bloody dangerous. All that limit stuff and straining away. When you think about it that can't be the stimulus for growth. In nature animals can get big but don't have to strain to do so.

A comment about Mike in the video. I talked to Mike in April 1991 in Golds Gym, Venice. When I saw him in that video I was shocked. He looked old. His voice sounded slurred and he didn't have the control he used to have. Mike was one guy you didn't jerk around. He was always sharp and alert in reasoning and thinking. That was not the Mike I met. He was 49 when he died but he looks much older. That is a very sad video.

Ray was a mate and he ended up living a wretched life, too. If you knew the Mentzers you would never believe such proud guys would go like that. When Mike died Ray would have lost any possible donor for a kidney. Ray was a very serious guy and easily upset but just wanted others to leave him alone.

I was at the 80 Olympia. Mentzer looked great in some shots but wasn't the winner. One day I will post all the photos I took that support my statement.

[jaejonna]

I heard Mike did everything in a HIT manner....For instance..him and Ray would score some Speed...Mike would inhale twice the amount needed in a short time period. Fucking sick way of life......he trained the same way he lived....quick and to the point....

[JackIt]

Strausberg, Germany

[c-sharp minor]

I bought Mentzer's book Heavy Duty years back and followed the routines outlined inside to a tee. I worked out once a week, doing the split recommended and still made excellent strength gains. My joints were sore as hell after about 4 months though, and I switched back to a combination of high/low rep training. I stick one cycle of HIT in once a year maybe and it still works well for me. Hell at 4 months shy of 40 I'm in the best shape of my life.

[Bluto]

you tell em vince

[Livewire]

I heard Mike did everything in a HIT manner....For instance..him and Ray would score some Speed...Mike would inhale twice the amount needed in a short time period. Fucking sick way of life......he trained the same way he lived....quick and to the point....

youre a sick, sick, sick man.

[Mr. Cortisol]

Was he high on meth during the arrest?

What a mess.  Did mentzer ever have any happy days, or was he always a tortured mess?

[Vince B]

It is inevitable that some bodybuilders will suffer from mental illnesses. If some fool around with various mood drugs then what can we say. Mike was bitterly disappointed with bodybuilding and the last straw was the 1980 Mr Olympia. There was a lot riding on that contest. Intelligence, methods, etc. That Arnold got a gift is probably true mainly because all the judges knew Arnold well and some were mates. Not the best people to judge a contest fairly. History can be cruel and look at what happened. Several of the top competitors from 1980 boycotted the 81 Olympia and a very ordinary Franco won. Mike never enterred again and was the ultimate victim afterwards.

I knew Ray Mentzer because he stayed at my place for months in the late 80's. He related many stories to me and it seems Mike was the favoured kid as far as Dad went. Those two were brothers but competitors, too. Both were highly intelligent and underestimated the side effects of using so many drugs. Ray's girlfriend told me she couldn't be around Ray when he was preparing for contests. She said he and his mates would take stuff to prepare them for heavy training and then take stuff to come down from those highs. Plus the anabolic drugs and whatever other gonad stimulators they thought they needed. Ray lamented in 1991, when I stayed at his house, that lots of the big guys were getting sick when their bodyweight approached 300 pounds. Ray always seemed clued in to me so I have no idea what happened. Some say he had a kidney disorder that appeared late in life but others blame all the drugs those guys used. I really can't say.

Ray did relate some stories about Mike and it appears he abused alcohol and some mood drugs. I have no specifics about what happened. The guy would have perplexed any officers who had to deal with him. That much is certain. When you see the last video Mike made you realize he aged rapidly in the last 10 years of his life. 50 is young as far as I am concerned. It really is not nice witnessing guys come and go like that. Mike was one of the very few philosophers in bodybuilding and his ideas have contributed to what we all know.