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Author Topic: Do you support Tre Smith?  (Read 1925 times)
rockyfortune
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"look, it's the drunk piano player."


« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2007, 10:14:42 AM »

I didn't say he did it for retribution, ...but the overwhelming majority of those who applaud his actions do so for that very reason. That speaks volumes about their mindsets, ...as well as yours. As an arresting officer, his job is not also to be judge and jury, convicter and sentencer. His conviction is up to a judge and/or jury, and only upon conviction is he to be sentenced, ...again by a judge and/or jury, ...not an arresting officer.

Yes police handcuff people everyday, but they don't leave them alone and handcuffed, vulnerable to attack by passersby. The next time you come upon a cop affecting an arrest, ...try to assault his suspect and see how far you get?

Since when do we not allow someone breaking the law to walk away? It's not like they hadn't identified him.
They knew exactly who he was upon arriving at the scene.


what utopian planet are you living on?  i'd like to know because i want to live there.  what mindset is that?  that you cannot treat living things like he did and walk away..so he got his ass beat---would you be so up and arms and talking about how animal rights have gone too far if he was uncuffed by the cop and he still got his ass beat? or would that be ok in your eyes?  you want to rip someone, rip the people who attacked the guy, not the guy who was doing his job...since when is he responsible for making sure everyone acts rationally?
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« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2007, 10:21:58 AM »

If you take someone into custody you take on the responsibility for the safety of that person. That means not handcuffing them and then taking off.  If he had unhandcuffed him and then left and the guy got jumped the guys safety would not have been his concern because he was no longer in his custody. 

  It's nice to think the guy got what he deserved, but what if the next person is someone who is innocent? 
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rockyfortune
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« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2007, 10:47:28 AM »

If you take someone into custody you take on the responsibility for the safety of that person. That means not handcuffing them and then taking off.  If he had unhandcuffed him and then left and the guy got jumped the guys safety would not have been his concern because he was no longer in his custody. 

  It's nice to think the guy got what he deserved, but what if the next person is someone who is innocent? 




it doesn't sound like this happens very often to think that it may happen to an ''innocent'' person the next time--....it was an extreme case.  poor judgement but under the circumstances the ACO gets a mulligan on this one. They are killing this guy over this and here you have a legitimate scumbag criminal and he gets sympathy. how f**ked up is that?

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« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2007, 11:06:29 AM »

it doesn't sound like this happens very often to think that it may happen to an ''innocent'' person the next time--....it was an extreme case.  poor judgement but under the circumstances the ACO gets a mulligan on this one. They are killing this guy over this and here you have a legitimate scumbag criminal and he gets sympathy. how f**ked up is that?

  They probably will use him as an example and this will probably never happen again.

 But if you want to spin it so that this guys actions may affect other animals from getting help then here is a possibility.   The person sues the city, AC, and the guy.  How much money will they have to pay  that could of went towards helping animals?  Will the AC be less able to do stuff because they had to pay a lawsuit?  (I'm not sure if insurance or whatever pays for that?)  Also, what if this guy walks away now?   I can look at how the AC's officers actions could affect future animals and not even consider the guy who left his dog in the car.

 Just a different spin that doesn't give a shit about the guy who got beat up...
  Cool
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« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2007, 02:07:21 AM »


what utopian planet are you living on?  i'd like to know because i want to live there.

I live in a wonderful place called Canada,  ...perhaps you've heard of it?  Wink

Quote
what mindset is that?
 

The kneejerk desire for punitive vigilante vengeance. I find it astonishing that people so concerned over the care, safety, and well-being of animals, can be so callous & indifferent to the safety, well-being, and security of humans

Quote
that you cannot treat living things like he did and walk away..

Do you really think that by uncuffing him at the moment, he would've "walked away" from either justice or the law?

Quote
so he got his ass beat---would you be so up and arms and talking about how animal rights have gone too far if he was uncuffed by the cop and he still got his ass beat?

I don't consider myself "up in arms", but No, I would not be. I wouldn't have condoned what happened to him, however, I'm far less concerned with inappropriate acts committed by general members of the public, than I am with inappropriate acts committed by those charged with the authority to maintain the rule of law, and those with authority over the public.

Quote
or would that be ok in your eyes?

Not ok, ...but certainly less troublesome. in that instance, the man would have at least had the ability to defend himself. Furthermore, the assault might never have taken place had he had the ability to defend himself. What kind of a person assaults a handcuffed man... let alone tag teams him, a spiteful, vindictive, coward, that's who.

Quote
you want to rip someone, rip the people who attacked the guy, not the guy who was doing his job...since when is he responsible for making sure everyone acts rationally?

He's not responsible for making sure everyone acts rationally,
...but he is responsible for making sure HE acts rationally. I don't think he did.  Cry

Rocky, please understand what the issue is here. It is not whether Mr Soderholm acted wrongly by leaving his dog in the SUV. There is no question he was wrong to do that. The question is not whether Mr. Smith acted wrongly in saving the dogs life. There is no question saving the dog's life was the right thing to do. At issue here is the question of whether or not Mr. Smith acted negligently with regards to the safety, well being and security of Mr. Soderholm.
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« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2007, 02:45:27 AM »

The plot thickens.....

Did dog rescuer go too far?


Humane Society officer Tre Smith cuddles Cyrus, a Rottweiler he
rescued and in the process handcuffed the dog's owner while he
treated the animal. The owner was attacked by a crowd and the
incident is under investigation.


Aug 16, 2007 04:30 AM
Michele Henry, The Toronto Star
Staff Reporter


They don't agree on much.

Tre Smith, a Toronto Humane Society investigator, and Paul Soderholm, a dog owner charged with animal cruelty, tell night-and-day versions of what happened between them a few weeks ago.

The two became embroiled in a harrowing incident involving a Rotweiller named Cyrus, a set of handcuffs and vigilante bystanders.

Here's what is indisputable: Smith smashed a window and pulled Cyrus from an overheated SUV. He handcuffed Soderholm to the car. The dog owner lost three teeth after being beaten by angry animal lovers and Smith was suspended from his duties as a Humane Society investigator.

Soderholm was charged with animal cruelty. Two men were charged with assaulting him.

And the incident has uncovered fault lines, still deep, from a long-standing rift between the Toronto Humane Society and the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

What unfolded July 31 in a Parkdale parking lot has inspired numerous Facebook sites supporting Smith and his "heroic" canine rescue, and a rally yesterday demanding his suspension be revoked.

It has also raised questions about the powers of animal cruelty officers. Smith handcuffed Soderholm to an SUV, then left. Was that overstepping the bounds of his role? Did he go too far?

Soderholm, 44, believes so.

A victim of this story, also cast as its villain, he can't understand why he was left unable to defend himself against what he describes as an angry mob. "This isn't the Middle Ages when you put someone in the city square and people throw rocks at you and spit at you when they've done a crime," he said. "You have a trial. It's one mistake. I feel terrible more than anyone can imagine."

In his version of the events, Soderholm left Cyrus in his black Equinox around noon to visit a friend in a King St. W. apartment building, near Jameson Ave. The windows of his SUV were "cracked down," and it "was cool and there was a breeze" he said. The visit lasted longer than expected, but he came downstairs regularly to run the car's air conditioning and check on his pet of five years, which he rescued, he said, from an abusive home.

Around 2 p.m., Soderholm left the building to find Smith and others bending over the dog, trying to cool it down with bowls of water. That's the first time Smith yelled at him, he said, asking "Is that your dog?"

Next thing Soderholm knew his hands were cuffed and he was forced to sit on a picnic bench. He describes his pet as "breathing and with his eyes wide open. He was not comatose."

Soderholm was as "polite as possible" in the face of Smith's "belligerence," he said. Despite Soderholm's offers to help with the rescue effort, Smith called him "a piece of garbage and worse names," he said, and "incited the crowd" gathered around, about 15 people, to take the law into its own hands.

Members of the crowd announced they'd hurt him, Soderholm said.

That's when the situation escalated. Smith announced he had to rush the pet for emergency care, so he grabbed Soderholm and handcuffed his left arm to the passenger's side of the Equinox, then took off with the dog and a bystander.

"There was plenty of room in the truck, he could have taken me with him," Soderholm said yesterday. "There was no reason for him to handcuff me and leave me vulnerable. I wasn't going to hurt the dog, or him. I wouldn't do that."

When Smith left, two men attacked Soderholm. One threw stones at him. The other bashed his head into the car, dislodging three teeth. He waited there for an hour before police arrived, he said.

Officers found Soderholm with a swelled face and bruises. They arrested two men on the scene and charged them, , one with assault, the other with assault with a weapon.

In Smith's version, he didn't think he was leaving Soderholm to a blood-hungry mob, but under the gentle watch of five female friends until police showed up. Smith, who appeared on Canadian reality TV show The Lofters and makes regular appearances on CP24's Animal Housecalls, said officers told him they were "seconds away."

Calling police was one of the first things Smith said he did when he arrived on scene to find Cyrus in the SUV, windows rolled "totally up tight." The dog was "slumped over the back seat of the car, foaming from the mouth, gasping for breath," Smith said.

He called out to passersby to bring buckets of water. After smashing the window, he used the water to cool the dog's core temperature. That's when Soderholm appeared, seeming more "perturbed about his car than his dog."

According to Smith, Soderholm scared him and bystanders by spouting profanities and acting "erratically" as he tried to pull and push Smith away from the pet.

Smith said that after repeated pleas to allow him to do his job, he cuffed Soderholm's hands and forced him to a picnic table. When that didn't work, and Smith realized he had to get the pet more help, Smith called the police once again.

"I had to make a choice," Smith said. "Does the dog die in my arms? Or do I leave and get it the care it needs?"

He cuffed Soderholm to the SUV in the presence of five people and left, he said. "At no time did I ever think his safety was in jeopardy."

Cyrus is shaky, but has recovered. That's what tells Lee Oliver of the Toronto Humane Society that Smith did as he should both in saving the pet and dealing with its owner. All of the society's investigators are licensed to use dog sticks to fend off unruly animals as well as handcuffs, he said, adding they are essential elements, which allow Toronto officers to do their jobs.

"They're going into seedy neighbourhoods and need protection," Oliver said, adding that Smith's job is "safe" and that he'll be back on the front line as soon as this "cloud is lifted."

Kate MacDonald is CEO of the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, which regulates animal investigators and trains them. The OSPCA suspended Smith from his duties last week.

MacDonald would like to get to the bottom of the issue. The OSPCA has hired a retired Ontario Provincial Police officer to conduct an independent review of the incident.

While Smith did "exactly the right thing" in rescuing the dog, MacDonald said, where the handcuffing is concerned, "we need to clarify what happened there."

Smith hasn't given the OSPCA the incident report the organization requested on Aug. 1, she said, and so he will remain unable to do his job until they get more information.

The OSPCA does not train officers in handcuff use, she said. "So we're not clear on how that sequence of events happened." And animal investigators don't exactly have the same powers as police," she said, simply because they aren't trained to use weapons.

Oliver said the OSPCA hasn't gotten hold of any report because Smith and the Humane Society are in the midst of writing it. Following protocol, Oliver said, Smith handed his notes to the organization's lead investigator, Dr. Steve Sheridan, who will pull it all together.

This isn't the first time the OSPCA and Humane Society have butted heads. In the mid to late '80s, the OSPCA accused the society of unethical conduct for its internal fights, links to vandalism and the way it nominated its board.

The Humane Society challenged the OSPCA act in court for the ability to train investigators and gain more control over daily practices. It lost.

There are more than 5,000 members of the Facebook group, "Supporters of Animal Cruelty Investigator Tre Smith, and about 25 people rallied for his cause yesterday morning at the Toronto Humane Society near Queen and River Sts., in the city's east end.

Lesli Bisgould, a Toronto lawyer and animal rights activist, is pleased people are reacting viscerally to animal matters.

But Bisgould said the real issue is that tougher laws are needed when it comes to animal cruelty.

At present, six months in jail and a $2,000 fine are maximum penalties for any kind of heinous act toward an animal, which are considered the least serious offences in the Criminal Code, she said.

And there's nothing in the law, she said, prohibiting the criminal animal owner from getting the pet back once the dust settles. "That should be fixed," Bisgould said.

Soderholm, who works in a Mississauga warehouse, said all he could think about during his ordeal was whether his pet was okay. Now all he wants is to see his dog. "I'm getting him back," he said. "I am."

******************(end of article)****************

Police-like powers unleashed
 
Animal cruelty investigations by the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and its affiliated Humane Societies are governed by the Ontario SPCA Act. The province's 205 inspectors and agents are trained criminal investigators.

The act specifically states that investigators have the same powers as police officers when enforcing animal cruelty laws. They can obtain search warrants, seize animals, issue orders to relieve an animal's distress and enter private property.

The legislation also provides investigators with police powers to investigate Criminal Code offences related to animal cruelty.

***************

This certainly tells a different side to the story now doesn't it?

I'm not saying Soderholm is innocent, ...but I will tell you this, ...it's real easy to make this kind of mistake.

I've done it to myself. Once after a series of back-to-back shoots, I found myself driving home one day and dozing off at the wheel. I decided driving while so sleepy was not a good move, and pulled off the highway to catch a quick cat nap. I pulled into a tiny little residential neighbourhood, found a nice shady spot under a tree, parked the car, left the windows cracked to let the air circulate, locked the doors and went down for a brief cat nap. When I woke up, to my horror, I found I was no longer in the shade. The sun had shifted in the sky, and was now blazing down directly through the windshield onto me. I was dazed confused, and being roasted alive. I had a few 2 litre bottles of Evian water with me, and I immediately guzzled them down. It felt like drinking hot coffee, ...only without the coffee. I drank about 4 litres of water, ...and didn't even have to pee. It took me a good 30 minutes to even start to feel halfway normal again, ...so as one who did this to myself unintentionally, I can see how one can do this to a pet unintentionally. Not saying it is right, ...only that I can see how this mistake can be made.

Notwithstanding all that though, the question still remains, ...did Smith act improperly by leaving Soderholm handcuffed and vulnerable to attack? Should accountability be required on his part, or should his status as a prominent fixture on TV's Animal Housecalls provide him carte blanche and the ability to skate by with "celebrity justice"?
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rockyfortune
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« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2007, 05:26:57 AM »




here's how i look at it...

don't leave you animal in an unventilated car (ok, windows cracked still not enough) and you won't get your windows smashed, a dog (that you supposedly care for) with brain damage, 3 knocked out teeth and a bruised ego---and a reputation as a animal abuser---it's called taking responsibility for your actions.

i can't see how this guy story carries any weight when the vet in the original article stated what type of condition this dog came in with...to me..that does not sound like a dog sitting in an air conditioned vehicle...unless everyone in this situation is lying but the owner of the dog-




Bystanders came by with buckets of cold water and poured them on the dog, hoping to revive him. Andrew McGowan was one of them. "He was laying right here, and we were pouring water on it slowly, making sure it was still stimulated," he remembers.

Veterinarians tended to the dog, which was unresponsive as he was rushed to THS headquarters on River St. and given oxygen and IV on arrival. Officials say it's too soon to know if the animal suffered brain damage and they'll be watching him carefully for at least the next week. But so far, the signs are better than they'd dared to hope.
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« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2007, 04:02:27 PM »



here's how i look at it...

don't leave you animal in an unventilated car (ok, windows cracked still not enough) and you won't get your windows smashed, a dog (that you supposedly care for) with brain damage, 3 knocked out teeth and a bruised ego---and a reputation as a animal abuser---it's called taking responsibility for your actions.

i can't see how this guy story carries any weight when the vet in the original article stated what type of condition this dog came in with...to me..that does not sound like a dog sitting in an air conditioned vehicle...unless everyone in this situation is lying but the owner of the dog-


Bystanders came by with buckets of cold water and poured them on the dog, hoping to revive him. Andrew McGowan was one of them. "He was laying right here, and we were pouring water on it slowly, making sure it was still stimulated," he remembers.

Veterinarians tended to the dog, which was unresponsive as he was rushed to THS headquarters on River St. and given oxygen and IV on arrival. Officials say it's too soon to know if the animal suffered brain damage and they'll be watching him carefully for at least the next week. But so far, the signs are better than they'd dared to hope.




Do you think that as a peace officer, charged with powers of arrest and authority over the public, that Tre Smith should take responsibility for his actions when he placed a man in handcuffs and left him at the scene, shackled, vulnerable to attack, and unable to defend himself?

Before you answer, ...please bare in mind that when he made the decision to leave the scene in order to transport the dog, ...he UN-CUFFED Mr. Soderholm, ...took him from the picnic table, ...then RE-CUFFED him to the vehicle. So an argument that Smith had no time to uncuff him before whisking the dog away for treatment goes out the window....
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« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2007, 05:11:16 PM »

sometimes I wonder why Canada is so fucked up....


then I read shit like this & it explains everything
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« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2007, 05:34:09 PM »

sometimes I wonder why Canada is so fucked up....


then I read shit like this & it explains everything

"fvcked up"?
...well if Canada is your definition of fvcked up, and if that's what you want to call it... that's fine.









pssssst: - Your highly advanced, evolved, and uniquely American style of civility is showing  Tongue
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« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2007, 05:56:38 PM »


"fvcked up"?
...well if Canada is your definition of fvcked up, and if that's what you want to call it... that's fine.









pssssst: - Your highly advanced, evolved, and uniquely American style of civility is showing  Tongue


It's called watching you pansie-assed canucks do shit about the world problems
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« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2007, 06:10:43 PM »

It's called watching you pansie-assed canucks do shit about the world problems

Oh I see. Well you sure have a point there... what with the stellar bang up job you guys have done in Iraq  Roll Eyes

...but that only takes this topic off-topic for the board, ...so why don't we get back on-topic shall we?

Therefore, I pose to you the same questions I posed to Rocky?

Do you think that as a peace officer, charged with powers of arrest and authority over the public, that Tre Smith should take responsibility for his actions when he placed a man in handcuffs and left him at the scene, shackled, vulnerable to attack, and unable to defend himself?

Before you answer, ...please bare in mind that when he made the decision to leave the scene in order to transport the dog, ...he UN-CUFFED Mr. Soderholm, ...took him from the picnic table, ...then RE-CUFFED him to the vehicle. So an argument that Smith had no time to uncuff him before whisking the dog away for treatment goes out the window....

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« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2007, 07:07:20 PM »

seems to me like it would fall under some sort of false imprisonment law
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« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2007, 07:40:21 PM »

seems to me like it would fall under some sort of false imprisonment law

Geo, do you think it was proper to simply cuff the man and leave the scene that way?
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Geo
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« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2007, 07:52:09 PM »

fitting but not proper
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knny187
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« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2007, 08:59:12 AM »

yes..fitting & he got what was deserved

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« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2007, 11:13:49 AM »

fitting but not proper

How can it be both? Geo, are you then saying that it is proper for a peace officer to be prosecutor, judge, and jury, before the man even sees the inside of a jail cell?
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« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2007, 04:56:40 PM »

How can it be both? Geo, are you then saying that it is proper for a peace officer to be prosecutor, judge, and jury, before the man even sees the inside of a jail cell?

shut up jagwire
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« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2007, 06:10:26 PM »

shut up jagwire
   
I'll take that as a ***crickets***
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