Author Topic: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board  (Read 17958 times)

Dballn247

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #125 on: September 15, 2007, 07:47:05 AM »
wtf no it doesn't. That would be like 40 pounds gained from one cycle.

Yes it can.  Sorry to break it to ya, but your young and you don't even weigh 200 yet.  Hit a real cycle and see for yourself.  It's easy to be an armchair Mr. O.  Getting out there and doing it is a completely different ballgame.  You have to break out of the lightweights first.  Not dissing you man, you looked good for your show, but with some hormones, more carbs you'll grow a lot faster and be less bitter.

Lie. You can gain muscle in a calorie defecit with juice. Ask milos. He agrees with me.

You will gain more muscle if not in a calorie deficit.  Man you can't have abs all year long and make any real progress.  Deplete youself and then grow.  Are you afraid that you won't see your abs again.  Do you not  have any faith in yourself?
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The_Leafy_Bug

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #126 on: September 15, 2007, 07:50:02 AM »
Yes it can.  Sorry to break it to ya, but your young and you don't even weigh 200 yet.  Hit a real cycle and see for yourself.  It's easy to be an armchair Mr. O.  Getting out there and doing it is a completely different ballgame.  You have to break out of the lightweights first.  Not dissing you man, you looked good for your show, but with some hormones, more carbs you'll grow a lot faster and be less bitter.

You will gain more muscle if not in a calorie deficit.  Man you can't have abs all year long and make any real progress.  Deplete youself and then grow.  Are you afraid that you won't see your abs again.  Do you not  have any faith in yourself?
Hahah i don't know what the hell you are talking about. I have 30 pounds of fat on me right now. It is basic nutrition. You are basing your arguments on gym science that are half truths. Throwing more food at you doesnt mean more muscle. Throwing more drugs into your system doesn't mean more muscle. It takes YEARS to get big like that. There are no short cuts. I am a light weight because ive been bodybuilding for 2 years. Those other guys have been working out for 15+.

Stavios

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #127 on: September 15, 2007, 07:52:27 AM »
Yes it can.  Sorry to break it to ya, but your young and you don't even weigh 200 yet.  Hit a real cycle and see for yourself.  It's easy to be an armchair Mr. O.  Getting out there and doing it is a completely different ballgame.  You have to break out of the lightweights first.  Not dissing you man, you looked good for your show, but with some hormones, more carbs you'll grow a lot faster and be less bitter.

You will gain more muscle if not in a calorie deficit.  Man you can't have abs all year long and make any real progress.  Deplete youself and then grow.  Are you afraid that you won't see your abs again.  Do you not  have any faith in yourself?

Dballn, how fat do you like to be while gaining mass

I found that at over 12%, I start gaining more and more fat and less muscle mass than when I am leaner

right now I still see my abs a little and my gains are pretty good this month

slaveboy1980

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #128 on: September 15, 2007, 07:53:11 AM »
No - I am not referring to the bodybuilder that is on gear...I am referring to bodybuilder who wants to put serious muscle in the shortest possible time (off course -providing his training is PRODUCTIVE and STIMULATING...)

I do not have a time to write about it...and that's why I organized seminar (free seminar that is...)

I would be MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO IT AGAIN (Ron...are you listening?) - for all bodybuilding fans...

What's more - I will be available at my KNS booth at the Olympia...and indeed I plan to have little seminars EVERY DAY while at the Olympia expo...

eating 500g of protein is a waste of time. its expensive energy....the protein can be used, it doesnt just magically disappear..but the body only needs 1-1.25 protein per lbs bw. so what your doing is that your wasting your money.

i think its time for slaveboy to write an article about all this bullshit and set some things straight.

(also its a myth that the body can only assimilate so and so much..it assimilates everything..the real question is if it used to grow the muscles or not...so if you eat 500g protein..majority of that will be oxidized as expensive energy.

if your 200lbs you need to eat about 200g of protein. (max 250)

but if your 200lbs and go and eat 500g of protein..everything will be assimilated but less than half will be used for rebuilding muscles and other needed things. the rest will be used as energy! better to cut down the protein from 500 to 200 and replace thoses calorie with cheaper carbs!

Hypertrophy

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #129 on: September 15, 2007, 07:53:30 AM »

I was on your side till that last statement.      ::)     What?  Are you scared of a buzz?




LOL. No, its not the buzz part. You actually feel sleepy sick. Not anything like a buzz.

Milos_Sarcev

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #130 on: September 15, 2007, 07:53:54 AM »
Think...IF you want to maintain WHAT YOU HAVE - than do what you always did...

IF you want to create MORE - you have to add MORE...

Now ENERGY NUTRIENTS (fat and carbohydrates) could only add MORE of what you don't want (body fat)...if used in excess...while PROTEIN is only building nutrient which can (and WILL) add quality muscle mass (IF correct training and recuperation protocols are utilized)...

Also: what happens if there is excess of carbs or fat in diet (energy intake exceeding energy expenditure?)...{BODY FAT}

and what happens if excess of protein is in diet IF energy expenditure is higher than energy intake?...{worst case scenario - body converts some glycogenic amino acids into glucose necessary for energy demand...so - while dieting would you rather have extra carbs or fat (risking the body fat accumulation) or extra protein (risking that MAYBE some of that protein would not be used as planed - for muscle building but instead - some of protein might be converted to energy...?)

Stavios

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #131 on: September 15, 2007, 07:56:10 AM »
thanks for participating Milos
your opinion is greatly appreciated as usual  8)

The_Leafy_Bug

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #132 on: September 15, 2007, 07:59:40 AM »
Think...IF you want to maintain WHAT YOU HAVE - than do what you always did...

IF you want to create MORE - you have to add MORE...

Now ENERGY NUTRIENTS (fat and carbohydrates) could only add MORE of what you don't want (body fat)...if used in excess...while PROTEIN is only building nutrient which can (and WILL) add quality muscle mass (IF correct training and recuperation protocols are utilized)...

Also: what happens if there is excess of carbs or fat in diet (energy intake exceeding energy expenditure?)...{BODY FAT}

and what happens if excess of protein is in diet IF energy expenditure is higher than energy intake?...{worst case scenario - body converts some glycogenic amino acids into glucose necessary for energy demand...so - while dieting would you rather have extra carbs or fat (risking the body fat accumulation) or extra protein (risking that MAYBE some of that protein would not be used as planed - for muscle building but instead - some of protein might be converted to energy...?)
Protien is used for repairing damaged tissue. You only need so much. The rest will be stored as fat or used for energy. Carbohydrates and fats are more responsible for building muscle. They give you more energy to lift.

Milos_Sarcev

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #133 on: September 15, 2007, 08:01:44 AM »
eating 500g of protein is a waste of time. its expensive energy....the protein can be used, it doesnt just magically disappear..but the body only needs 1-1.25 protein per lbs bw. so what your doing is that your wasting your money.

i think its time for slaveboy to write an article about all this bullshit and set some things straight.

(also its a myth that the body can only assimilate so and so much..it assimilates everything..the real question is if it used to grow the muscles or not...so if you eat 500g protein..majority of that will be oxidized as expensive energy.

if your 200lbs you need to eat about 200g of protein. (max 250)

but if your 200lbs and go and eat 500g of protein..everything will be assimilated but less than half will be used for rebuilding muscles and other needed things. the rest will be used as energy! better to cut down the protein from 500 to 200 and replace thoses calorie with cheaper carbs!

 ::)...Yes...I do think it is time to slaveboy to write an article...but before that - maybe he should read few (other than Mickey Mouse Nutrition News)...or "How to make monster mosquito"


Hypertrophy

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #134 on: September 15, 2007, 08:02:23 AM »
This type of diet can only be followed for a certain amount time before it starts taking it's toll on your system.

Coach,

How so? This type of diet is derived from the evolutionary diet of humans. It was also popularized in the mid 1800's, and was called the Banting Diet, http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/banting.html

A interesting study of the Inuits' (Eskimos) diet proved a high fat, high protein diet is all you need to live:

"Real-life tests
In 1906, Dr. Vilhjalmur Stefansson, a young Harvard anthropology teacher who later became a world-famous explorer and anthropologist, revolutionised polar exploration by crossing the Arctic alone and living off the land with the Eskimos. It was not quite what had been planned. Stefansson had gone on ahead of the Leffingwell-Mikkelson Expedition and had missed a planned rendezvous at Herschel Island. He was left to spend an Arctic winter with the Eskimos eating a diet composed only of meat and fish. Unlike the diet he had been brought up on, it contained no plant material whatsoever.

It was a golden opportunity for the young scientist to conduct an experiment into the effects of an Eskimo diet on a European unaccustomed to it. The usual Eskimo meal consisted of briefly stewed fish washed down with water. It was so different from what he was used to that at first Stefansson was repelled by it. To try to make the fish more palatable, he tried broiling it. This resulted in his becoming weak and dizzy, with other symptoms of malnutrition. Stefansson reasoned that with such a restricted diet the body had to have not just the fish but the other nutrients that had been leached out into the water. And so he tried harder. Eventually he became so accustomed to the primitive diet that, by the time he left the Eskimos, Stefansson managed as well as them. On this regime, Stefansson remained in perfect health and did not get fat.

The experience had a profound effect on Stefansson. Like Banting before him, he became interested in the possibilities of diets high in proteins and fats and low in carbohydrates. It seemed to him that a balanced diet in which there was relatively little meat, 'balanced' by larger amounts of potatoes, bread, rice and other starchy foods followed by sweet desserts and sugared coffee might be balanced in the wrong direction. And so, like Banting, Stefansson questioned the established ideas on diet. Unfortunately, he had no more success than Banting. Although he became famous and his position as an anthropologist was unassailable, still no one took any notice of his ideas on nutrition.

Some years after his first experience with the Eskimos, Dr. Stefansson returned to the Arctic with a colleague, Dr. Karsten Anderson, to carry out research for the American Museum of Natural History. They were supplied with every necessity including a year's supply of 'civilised' food. This they declined, electing instead to live off the land. In the end, the one-year project stretched to four years, during which time the two men ate only the meat they could kill and the fish they could catch in the Canadian Arctic. Neither of the two men suffered any adverse after-effects from their four-year experiment. It was evident to Stefansson, as it had been to Banting, that the body could function perfectly well, remain healthy, vigorous and slender if it used a diet in which as much food was eaten as the body required, only carbohydrate was restricted and the total number of calories was ignored"

Dballn247

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #135 on: September 15, 2007, 08:02:55 AM »
Hahah i don't know what the hell you are talking about. I have 30 pounds of fat on me right now. It is basic nutrition. You are basing your arguments on gym science that are half truths. Throwing more food at you doesnt mean more muscle. Throwing more drugs into your system doesn't mean more muscle. It takes YEARS to get big like that. There are no short cuts. I am a light weight because ive been bodybuilding for 2 years. Those other guys have been working out for 15+.

Exactly, your arguments show your lack of knowledge. Don't believe everything you read or learn in your nutrition class.  Throwing more drugs into your system doesn't mean more muscle growth unless you train hard and eat.  It does take time, but you can shorten that time if you use the right drugs and diet.  I moved up a whole weight class after my first show. 

You sound scared to take the leap and bitter at those who have and succeeded.  Go and argue with youself now.

Dballn, how fat do you like to be while gaining mass

I found that at over 12%, I start gaining more and more fat and less muscle mass than when I am leaner

right now I still see my abs a little and my gains are pretty good this month

Stavios, I don't prefer to be over 15%.  I don't mind being heavier though.  Too many are concerned with weight thinking it is either lean muscle or fat.  Their is water weight too.  Which can all be taken care of.  ;)

Milos is dead on.  You need carbs but an Excess will cause you to gain BF.  LeafyBug seems to think that if he eats any carbs his world will collapse.  Now he is arguing with Milos....I thought he agreed with you?
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Milos_Sarcev

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #136 on: September 15, 2007, 08:03:52 AM »
Protien is used for repairing damaged tissue. You only need so much. The rest will be stored as fat or used for energy. Carbohydrates and fats are more responsible for building muscle. They give you more energy to lift.

And Santa Claus is Mr. Olympia too... ;)
People goes to school for a reason...you know... ;D

Stavios

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #137 on: September 15, 2007, 08:04:17 AM »
Protien is used for repairing damaged tissue. You only need so much. The rest will be stored as fat or used for energy. Carbohydrates and fats are more responsible for building muscle. They give you more energy to lift.

yeah but if you damage your muscles MORE OFTEN, you will also need more protein wich will lead to 2 times better gains  8)

Dballn247

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #138 on: September 15, 2007, 08:05:26 AM »
yeah but if you damage your muscles MORE OFTEN, you will also need more protein wich will lead to 2 times better gains  8)

Word. 8)
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The_Leafy_Bug

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #139 on: September 15, 2007, 08:05:43 AM »
Think...IF you want to maintain WHAT YOU HAVE - than do what you always did...

IF you want to create MORE - you have to add MORE...

Now ENERGY NUTRIENTS (fat and carbohydrates) could only add MORE of what you don't want (body fat)...if used in excess...while PROTEIN is only building nutrient which can (and WILL) add quality muscle mass (IF correct training and recuperation protocols are utilized)...

Also: what happens if there is excess of carbs or fat in diet (energy intake exceeding energy expenditure?)...{BODY FAT}

and what happens if excess of protein is in diet IF energy expenditure is higher than energy intake?...{worst case scenario - body converts some glycogenic amino acids into glucose necessary for energy demand...so - while dieting would you rather have extra carbs or fat (risking the body fat accumulation) or extra protein (risking that MAYBE some of that protein would not be used as planed - for muscle building but instead - some of protein might be converted to energy...?)
Many people assume that because muscle tissue fibers are composed of protien, building muscle must require protien. This is only partially true. The heavy resistance type excercise that is needed to stimulate growth must be fueld by glucose and fatty acids, glucose being the predominate fuel. Little protien is used as fuel in resistance training. Studies have shown older adults in a positive nitrogen balance only getting a gram of protien per pound of body weight.

The_Leafy_Bug

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #140 on: September 15, 2007, 08:06:21 AM »
And Santa Claus is Mr. Olympia too... ;)
People goes to school for a reason...you know... ;D
Yeah... im going to school and everything im learning goes against what you are saying. I never said it was right or wrong. Just spitting this back out at you.

Bluto

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #141 on: September 15, 2007, 08:08:46 AM »
just eat more protein. what ya got to lose? if anything youll support the industry by buying protein powders!
Z

slaveboy1980

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #142 on: September 15, 2007, 08:09:11 AM »
Think...IF you want to maintain WHAT YOU HAVE - than do what you always did...

IF you want to create MORE - you have to add MORE...

Now ENERGY NUTRIENTS (fat and carbohydrates) could only add MORE of what you don't want (body fat)...if used in excess...while PROTEIN is only building nutrient which can (and WILL) add quality muscle mass (IF correct training and recuperation protocols are utilized)...

Also: what happens if there is excess of carbs or fat in diet (energy intake exceeding energy expenditure?)...{BODY FAT}

and what happens if excess of protein is in diet IF energy expenditure is higher than energy intake?...{worst case scenario - body converts some glycogenic amino acids into glucose necessary for energy demand...so - while dieting would you rather have extra carbs or fat (risking the body fat accumulation) or extra protein (risking that MAYBE some of that protein would not be used as planed - for muscle building but instead - some of protein might be converted to energy...?)

i will get back to this, when i have some more energy  ;). for now...check my posts over at MD about nutrition before i got banned there.

i will say this tho: carbs dont make you fat. fat doesnt make you fat. protein doesnt make you fat >>>>>>>>>

surplus of calories make you fat irregardless where they come from. (fat/carb/protein)

fat can be stored as fat easier than carbs and protein..when in a caloric surplus.

as for protein requirements. when the glass is full its full!

ill write more on this soon.


Dballn247

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #143 on: September 15, 2007, 08:09:33 AM »
Yeah... im going to school and everything im learning goes against what you are saying. I never said it was right or wrong. Just spitting this back out at you.

Oh Brother....another Armchair Mr. O. ::)

But my teacher said!!!!!!!!!!!!  LOL 
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The_Leafy_Bug

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #144 on: September 15, 2007, 08:12:08 AM »
Oh Brother....another Armchair Mr. O. ::)

But my teacher said!!!!!!!!!!!!  LOL 
Hey, for someone taking insulin it makes more sense. Would you rather listen to someone who has a degree or the guy in the gym. I base my knowledge on evidence and facts.

Stavios

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #145 on: September 15, 2007, 08:12:28 AM »
Oh Brother....another Armchair Mr. O. ::)

But my teacher said!!!!!!!!!!!!  LOL 

my teacher said in high school that eating more meat than the size of your fist was useless for gaining muscle  ::)

I told her her explication was very "scientific"  ;D

Stavios

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #146 on: September 15, 2007, 08:14:42 AM »
Hey, for someone taking insulin it makes more sense. Would you rather listen to someone who has a degree or the guy in the gym. I base my knowledge on evidence and facts.

before saying that, you do know how the insulin works in your body right ?  ???

delta9mda

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #147 on: September 15, 2007, 08:15:41 AM »
Many people assume that because muscle tissue fibers are composed of protien, building muscle must require protien. This is only partially true. The heavy resistance type excercise that is needed to stimulate growth must be fueld by glucose and fatty acids, glucose being the predominate fuel. Little protien is used as fuel in resistance training. Studies have shown older adults in a positive nitrogen balance only getting a gram of protien per pound of body weight.
sounds good, but you said "older adults" (that deff dont train as hard as a bb'er or have the protein requirements).

tleilaxutank

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #148 on: September 15, 2007, 08:17:18 AM »
Leave Bug alone...his methods and education are for NATURAL PHYSIQUES; you drug heads have a different playbook..

The_Leafy_Bug

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #149 on: September 15, 2007, 08:17:40 AM »
sounds good, but you said "older adults" (that deff dont train as hard as a bb'er or have the protein requirements).
Wouldn't you think older adults according to these guys would need more protien since you start to lose muscle as you get older? By saying older adults i just reinforced my view.