GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board

[whateva]

I'm training once a day ,eating  ,protein ,carbs and fat ,

[The_Leafy_Bug]

fruits are high in fructose to. high gi

Fructose is low in GI.....

[Hypertrophy]

Very cool discussion guys.

I changed to a very low carbohydrate diet in May of 2007. I am 5'9" and weighed 208 pounds. I didn't look "obese" but I was definitely soft. As I write this I am now 185 pounds and feel great. I dropped most of the obvious carbs from my diet, including bread, juices, potatoes, rice, etc. I modelled this after the Paleo Diet. I read a lot about it and it made sense. I also dropped milk from my diet, and stick to water.

My typical day starts with a few eggs/bacon and a piece of fruit for breakfast. I eat a lunch consisting of some sort of meat, including beef, fish or chicken, and a piece of fruit or two. Snacks are nuts, grapes, etc. I have them whenever I feel the urge.

For dinner - meat with vegetables like green beans, peas, etc. And I indulge in an unsweetened protein shake, mixed with water, in the evening.

I have never felt better. My poundages for exercises have not dropped on ounce, and in fact some have increased significantly. I have veins popping up in my upper torso and legs that I thought never existed, lol.

I think the need for carbohydrates in our diet is vastly over rated. I am also a competitive cyclist, and was brought up on the notion that we had to carb up all the time, take carb replacement drinks during long rides or races, and carb up immediately afterwards. If you didn't, you would "hit the wall" after about 1.5-2 hrs.

That was true, when I had a high carbohydrate diet. Not so with a low carb diet. This summer I raced in quite a few 50 mile events, taking 2-2.25 hours. I did them on nothing but water. No "wall" was found!

Any downside to eating like this? Well you have to work harder to get the right foods in restaurants and in convenience stores, since they are all sugar and starch crazy. And my clothes are all too big now!

And finally, you get drunk very fast when you eat low carb. Apparently alcohol screws up the biochemistry of low carb diets. I stop at one beer every once in a while now.

[WOOO]

You should take a look Adonis, maybe you would be less skinny 

http://milossarcev.com/board/index.php?topic=1552.msg87318#msg87318

no clicky

[corinth]

fruits are high in fructose to. high gi

Fructose is like a 28 on the glycemic index.

Plus most fruit contains quite a bit of fiber.

[Kegdrainer]

High protien diets have been associated with obesity and many other health risks.

well, by the body mass index, most weightlifters are considered morbidly obese...its a relative term.

As far as health risks, gout sucks.  Totally manageable by increasing fiber and water intake.  My cholesterol was usually betweeen 3-4 when i was tested, totally normal, normal blood pressure, 65-70 resting heart rate most of the time...aside from the gout flare ups i had no other health issues when eating that much clean protein from solid food sources.  I also saved a lot of money by not having to supplement my extra protein with powders and drinks.  Try eating that much red meat for a while, after a few months you'll feel like superman in the gym.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

Fructose is like a 28 on the glycemic index.

Plus most fruit contains quite a bit of fiber.

Fructose is often recommended for, and consumed by, people with diabetes mellitus or hypoglycemia, because it has a very low glycemic index (GI) relative to cane sugar (sucrose). However, this benefit is tempered by concern that fructose may have an adverse effect on plasma lipid and uric acid levels, and the resulting higher blood levels of fructose can be damaging to proteins (see below). The low GI is due to the unique and lengthy metabolic pathway of fructose, which involves phosphorylation and a multi-step enzymatic process in the liver. See health effects and glycation for further information.

Fructose is also used as a substitute for sucralose which i believe is what splenda is.

[Stavios]

and he missed out 4 days when he could've been training

Very true Bluto

I think we are the only real men here who are not affraid of training like it should: AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE 

[The Coach]

Very cool discussion guys.

I changed to a very low carbohydrate diet in May of 2007. I am 5'9" and weighed 208 pounds. I didn't look "obese" but I was definitely soft. As I write this I am now 185 pounds and feel great. I dropped most of the obvious carbs from my diet, including bread, juices, potatoes, rice, etc. I modelled this after the Paleo Diet. I read a lot about it and it made sense. I also dropped milk from my diet, and stick to water.

My typical day starts with a few eggs/bacon and a piece of fruit for breakfast. I eat a lunch consisting of some sort of meat, including beef, fish or chicken, and a piece of fruit or two. Snacks are nuts, grapes, etc. I have them whenever I feel the urge.

For dinner - meat with vegetables like green beans, peas, etc. And I indulge in an unsweetened protein shake, mixed with water, in the evening.

I have never felt better. My poundages for exercises have not dropped on ounce, and in fact some have increased significantly. I have veins popping up in my upper torso and legs that I thought never existed, lol.

I think the need for carbohydrates in our diet is vastly over rated. I am also a competitive cyclist, and was brought up on the notion that we had to carb up all the time, take carb replacement drinks during long rides or races, and carb up immediately afterwards. If you didn't, you would "hit the wall" after about 1.5-2 hrs.

That was true, when I had a high carbohydrate diet. Not so with a low carb diet. This summer I raced in quite a few 50 mile events, taking 2-2.25 hours. I did them on nothing but water. No "wall" was found!

Any downside to eating like this? Well you have to work harder to get the right foods in restaurants and in convenience stores, since they are all sugar and starch crazy. And my clothes are all too big now!

And finally, you get drunk very fast when you eat low carb. Apparently alcohol screws up the biochemistry of low carb diets. I stop at one beer every once in a while now.

This type of diet can only be followed for a certain amount time before it starts taking it's toll on your system.

[The Coach]

You should take a look Adonis, maybe you would be less skinny 

http://milossarcev.com/board/index.php?topic=1552.msg87318#msg87318

As intresting as it is, he is referring to the "bodybuilder" and not a natural, there is NO scientific proof that a natural or people in general that want to put some muscle on requires anymore than 1.5-2gr to add muscle. Milos is obviously referring to the bodybuilder that is on gear, and even so, 500 gr is overkill and completely not necessary.

[Bluto]

You make conclusions with no reasoning or science behind them. what is ur proof of this? ur science? ur backing?

no reasoning behind it?

put guy 1 at training legs once a week.
put guy 2 at training legs twice a week.

after one year guy 1 will have trained his legs 50 times.
and guy 2 will have trained legs 100 times.

assuming guy 2 will get enough rest to fully recover, avoid overtraining etc he should get better result due to TWICE as much training.

[windsor88]

Very cool discussion guys.

 but water. No "wall" was found!

Any downside to eating like this? Well you have to work harder to get the right foods in restaurants and in convenience stores, since they are all sugar and starch crazy. And my clothes are all too big now!

And finally, you get drunk very fast when you eat low carb. Apparently alcohol screws up the biochemistry of low carb diets. I stop at one beer every once in a while now.

I was on your side till that last statement.           What?  Are you scared of a buzz?

[Mars]

what do you guys take for meals on a low carb diet? its the bread and oats that make me feel full, i hate feeling hungry all day going without them and choosing for protein only things.

[Stavios]

As intresting as it is, he is referring to the "bodybuilder" and not a natural, there is NO scientific proof that a natural or people in general that want to put some muscle on requires anymore than 1.5-2gr to add muscle. Milos is obviously referring to the bodybuilder that is on gear, and even so, 500 gr is overkill and completely not necessary.

I disagree !
for myself at least, if I don't eat AT LEAST 2g per pound of bodyweight I won't gain an ounce of muscle

[Dballn247]

As intresting as it is, he is referring to the "bodybuilder" and not a natural, there is NO scientific proof that a natural or people in general that want to put some muscle on requires anymore than 1.5-2gr to add muscle. Milos is obviously referring to the bodybuilder that is on gear, and even so, 500 gr is overkill and completely not necessary.

Agree, 500g is excessive, unless of course you weigh 250, then 500 seems about right. 1.5 to 2g per pound of YOUR OWN BW is right.  Just eating 500 if you're a 180lb kid trying to bulk isn't gonna do you any good, shoot for 360 and increase your protein as you grow. 

[Stavios]

I eat between 450-500g per day

and I weight only 220-225

[The Coach]

I eat between 450-500g per day

and I weight only 220-225

You're body CANNOT assimilate that much.

[Dballn247]

I eat between 450-500g per day

and I weight only 220-225

Seems about right then.  If your on hormones.

You're body CANNOT assimilate that much.

Can you link the controlled study that proves this?  Plus I think most would rather be a bit over than a bit under.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

You're body CANNOT assimilate that much.

It can if his carbs are extremely low. If they aren't its just getting stored as fat.

[Stavios]

It can if his carbs are extremely low. If they aren't its just getting stored as fat.

carbs are about 500gr per day

[Dballn247]

It can if his carbs are extremely low. If they aren't its just getting stored as fat.

It can assimilate the protein and carbs if your body is in an anabolic state.  That is why BB and Steroids go hand and hand. 

Do people actually believe that you will grow if just taking steroids alone?  Taking steroids without increasing your protein is like throwing your money away.  Take a Gram of test per week with your normal diet and do the same doubling the protein and see what works better.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

It can assimilate the protein and carbs if your body is in an anabolic state.  That is why BB and Steroids go hand and hand. 

Do people actually believe that you will grow if just taking steroids alone?  Taking steroids without increasing your protein is like throwing your money away.  Take a Gram of test per week with your normal diet and do the same doubling the protein and see what works better.

wtf no it doesn't. That would be like 40 pounds gained from one cycle.

[Stavios]

It can assimilate the protein and carbs if your body is in an anabolic state.  That is why BB and Steroids go hand and hand. 

Do people actually believe that you will grow if just taking steroids alone?  Taking steroids without increasing your protein is like throwing your money away.  Take a Gram of test per week with your normal diet and do the same doubling the protein and see what works better.

Very true Dballn

if I juice eating the same as when I don't take anything, it's pretty obvious that I won't gain additionnal muscle mass

[The_Leafy_Bug]

Very true Dballn

if I juice eating the same as when I don't take anything, it's pretty obvious that I won't gain additionnal muscle mass

Lie. You can gain muscle in a calorie defecit with juice. Ask milos. He agrees with me.

[Milos_Sarcev]

As intresting as it is, he is referring to the "bodybuilder" and not a natural, there is NO scientific proof that a natural or people in general that want to put some muscle on requires anymore than 1.5-2gr to add muscle. Milos is obviously referring to the bodybuilder that is on gear, and even so, 500 gr is overkill and completely not necessary.

No - I am not referring to the bodybuilder that is on gear...I am referring to bodybuilder who wants to put serious muscle in the shortest possible time (off course -providing his training is PRODUCTIVE and STIMULATING...)

I do not have a time to write about it...and that's why I organized seminar (free seminar that is...)

I would be MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO IT AGAIN (Ron...are you listening?) - for all bodybuilding fans...

What's more - I will be available at my KNS booth at the Olympia...and indeed I plan to have little seminars EVERY DAY while at the Olympia expo...