Author Topic: Vince Basile 65 years young today!  (Read 15217 times)

G o a t b o y

  • Time Out
  • Getbig V
  • *
  • Posts: 21431
  • Time-Out in Dubai, India with Swampi the Cocksmith
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #75 on: September 22, 2007, 11:26:34 PM »
do you swim freestyle or butterfly?


I don't think he's muscuar enough in that pic to be on the swim team.



Ron: "I am lazy."

Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12985
  • What you!
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #76 on: September 22, 2007, 11:31:24 PM »
Naw, Mr Olympia without drugs is not possible and never was. If I had stayed in Venice in 1968 who knows how far I would have gone in bodybuilding. The trouble was Sergio and Arnold were contemporaries and everyone else was small compared to them. I got married in 1969 moved to Sydney in 1971 and had a daughter that year. I started a gym in 1971 and taught high school. There was little motivation to train and enter contests. My last show was the 75 Mr Australia where I came last in my class thanks to some crooked judging by Arnold and Paul Graham.

I couldn't win a novice show with that physique today. Heck, most of the pro women are better, too! I might be still able to beat Arvilla, Goodrum and Goatboy! Times have changed! It still takes a lot of guts to actually get up on stage in contest condition.

G o a t b o y

  • Time Out
  • Getbig V
  • *
  • Posts: 21431
  • Time-Out in Dubai, India with Swampi the Cocksmith
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #77 on: September 22, 2007, 11:44:24 PM »
You look somewhat better in that pic, although it still seems like you hadn't learned to do squats.
Ron: "I am lazy."

PANDAEMONIUM

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6583
  • Scourge of the Northern Gods
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #78 on: September 23, 2007, 12:00:51 AM »
You look somewhat better in that pic, although it still seems like you hadn't learned to do squats.

...or calf raises, or deadlifts, and so on...

MikeThaMachine

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5994
  • WTF Happened, BBing Is Dead. I Didn't Miss A Thing
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2007, 02:25:34 AM »
Back in the day even without what we know today Basile may own us but these days his look can be found in any gym but at least Vince appreciated his genetics and knew how to show it off. I hate when guys with great genetics let it go to waste, everyone should strive for their genetic potential.
I

MikeThaMachine

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5994
  • WTF Happened, BBing Is Dead. I Didn't Miss A Thing
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #80 on: September 23, 2007, 02:26:19 AM »
Vince is still a lazy fat ass these days though ;)
I

Hedgehog

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19464
  • It Rubs The Lotion On Its Skin.
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2007, 02:49:59 AM »
Why should I, as a gym owner, give practical advice away for free? A bit like asking a doctor for free consultations. That is what we get for being bodybuilders. I have given advice about training, even at depth on this forum. Do a search and see. Or go to HST forum and search there. If you are intelligent you should be able to apply that information. If you need to be spoon fed then no one can help you. I don't charge my members for information but few bodybuilders listen to what I say. Nothing has changed in this regard and just about everyone thinks he knows all about training. I should have been a university professor and enjoyed that profession instead of opening a gym.

I got the T-shirt at Venice Beach in 2004. I got several tiger ones as a gift from a girlfriend.


Because you're making a lot of claims.

It's time to back up the big talk Vince.

You make a lot of claims about having a "DOMS" theory.

You will never be compared to Poliquin, Jones or even any of the current gurus such as Thibaudeau, DOGGCRAPP, Haycock, King, Waterbury and Simmons.

Because these guys offers their basic routines publicly, and have even backed up their routines with a basic explanation, or even beyond that.

You on the other hand, is not even remotedly close to that. You haven't posted anything that even resembles something that would qualify as a basic routine.

Surely you must have clients at your gym who's grown to become gigantic.

Show us.
As empty as paradise

Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12985
  • What you!
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2007, 03:14:13 AM »
My claims are probably true. That others don't accept them is not my problem. The more science people know the worse they are at accepting theories. To me those people are poor scientists.

Most of the guys mentioned haven't nailed hypertrophy theory. A couple of those people I haven't read about.

A theory might be true even if no one else accepts or believes it.

The really sad thing is science has completely ignored bodybuilding as a valid study area. In the vacuum arise countless experts who can't produce much at all. I give full credit to anyone who can get results in others. The bottom line is no one seems to be able to succeed with everyone. The unpleasant truth is most guys who train hard aren't growing much if at all. Why is this so? Why, with all that knowledge do so many get so little out of training?

Hedgehog, you really surprise me. I have posted some basic routines. No one here believes what I say is possible. Look at the wannabes here on Getbig. I smile at guys like Goodrum and others who think they know heaps but aren't growing. Just about everyone believes you need drugs to get big. Oh, yeah, you have to have the genetics, whatever that is. This sport is filled to the brim with bullshit and rationalizations. No wonder the truth is still hidden from those clanging away with dumbbells! If all those experts know about growing muscles why do so many have so much trouble?  Part of the problem is knowing the truth isn't enough. You have to be able to apply the correct theory via the technology of hypertrophy training. Many cannot put enough mechanical tension on their target muscles. I have seen guys unable to stimulate their arms to grow because their deltoids do most of the work. These guys will be forever searching for the right method but the sad truth is no method can help them.

The bodybuilding magazines have been devoid of much in the way of helpful theories for decades now.

Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12985
  • What you!
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2007, 03:21:28 AM »
Goatboy and his disciples make me laugh. Can they do 10 ass to the floor reps in the full squat with 400 pounds? I did that back in 1975. Didn't make my thighs much bigger. Goatboy is evidence that just about anyone can pose as an expert in bodybuilding. All you have to do is knock others and be persistent. You don't have to know anything, be anybody, or a success in this field. That really is a joke on everyone. No wonder so many of those guys remain anonymous because any disclosure of the truth would be a monumental self-owning of legendary proportions.

Mons Venus

  • Guest
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2007, 03:51:23 AM »
Goatboy and his disciples make me laugh. Can they do 10 ass to the floor reps in the full squat with 400 pounds? I did that back in 1975. Didn't make my thighs much bigger. Goatboy is evidence that just about anyone can pose as an expert in bodybuilding. All you have to do is knock others and be persistent. You don't have to know anything, be anybody, or a success in this field. That really is a joke on everyone. No wonder so many of those guys remain anonymous because any disclosure of the truth would be a monumental self-owning of legendary proportions.

True.

BlueDevil

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1117
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #85 on: September 23, 2007, 03:59:37 AM »
Goatboy and his disciples make me laugh. Can they do 10 ass to the floor reps in the full squat with 400 pounds? I did that back in 1975. Didn't make my thighs much bigger. Goatboy is evidence that just about anyone can pose as an expert in bodybuilding. All you have to do is knock others and be persistent. You don't have to know anything, be anybody, or a success in this field. That really is a joke on everyone. No wonder so many of those guys remain anonymous because any disclosure of the truth would be a monumental self-owning of legendary proportions.

Excellent retort dude

I suppose there could be different ideas of what an open mind entails. To me, being open minded has absolutely nothing to do with being confused. To have an open mind doesn't mean to have no clear opinion. Having an open mind means to allow yourself to listen to alternative, even opposing, points of view and then weigh them against your own. It may well be something you haven't heard before, and it may well include evidence that has not been available before. To have an open mind means to be willing and able to take in such new evidence, and if necessary, re-evaluate your opinion based on new facts. This is the way intelligent human beings learn and evolve. It's also very closely related to the way science works, which is probably why good scientists are open-minded by "nature".

Being closed-minded on the other hand means to reject any idea that does not fit into your tightly knit personal world view. Anything in opposition is discarded by default, usually without any consideration, without any intelligent reflection, and often without even hearing it out. Some people see a certain comfort in that. It's easy to do, it doesn't require thinking, and you can live your life self-satisfied, pretending you know everything and are right about everything. These people think that changing their minds would be a sign of weakness. Hence, they wouldn't do it even when they're proven wrong! Little do they know that their real weakness is ignorance.

We all are born ignorant, and require an open mind to learn. The dumbest thing you can do to your mind is to keep it locked up.

WOOO

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18158
  • Fuck the mods
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #86 on: September 23, 2007, 05:06:31 AM »
monster being retired and having nothing else to do but compose long posts... >:(


My claims are probably true. That others don't accept them is not my problem. The more science people know the worse they are at accepting theories. To me those people are poor scientists.

Most of the guys mentioned haven't nailed hypertrophy theory. A couple of those people I haven't read about.

A theory might be true even if no one else accepts or believes it.

The really sad thing is science has completely ignored bodybuilding as a valid study area. In the vacuum arise countless experts who can't produce much at all. I give full credit to anyone who can get results in others. The bottom line is no one seems to be able to succeed with everyone. The unpleasant truth is most guys who train hard aren't growing much if at all. Why is this so? Why, with all that knowledge do so many get so little out of training?

Hedgehog, you really surprise me. I have posted some basic routines. No one here believes what I say is possible. Look at the wannabes here on Getbig. I smile at guys like Goodrum and others who think they know heaps but aren't growing. Just about everyone believes you need drugs to get big. Oh, yeah, you have to have the genetics, whatever that is. This sport is filled to the brim with bullshit and rationalizations. No wonder the truth is still hidden from those clanging away with dumbbells! If all those experts know about growing muscles why do so many have so much trouble?  Part of the problem is knowing the truth isn't enough. You have to be able to apply the correct theory via the technology of hypertrophy training. Many cannot put enough mechanical tension on their target muscles. I have seen guys unable to stimulate their arms to grow because their deltoids do most of the work. These guys will be forever searching for the right method but the sad truth is no method can help them.

The bodybuilding magazines have been devoid of much in the way of helpful theories for decades now.


webcake

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16148
  • Not now chief...
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #87 on: September 23, 2007, 05:16:14 AM »
Vince, you working on making any new machines at the moment?
No doubt about it...

Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12985
  • What you!
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #88 on: September 23, 2007, 05:23:20 AM »
Let us examine hypertrophy methods. Which method is the best to quickly add muscle on a person who has lifted weights for years and has some results? Well, a philosopher would require a test for the truth of any competing theory. In bodybuilding that test is quite simple. Does the method yield rapid, sustained muscular growth? If you give any method a fair go you should be growing. If you have stopped growing then something must be wrong with what you are doing or your theory is false.

Because most bodybuilders have obtained some results they use this experience to gauge methods, etc., concerning bodybuilding. What confuses so many is that the growth obtained was not rapid and after a while those gains came slowly and often unpredictably. When you cannot measure your growth you become a religious person because you then rely on mysterious forces and faith. You have to believe all that you do is going to result in growth, eventually. Ah, what a joke bodybuilding has become. We have the knowledge, experience and tools to obtain rapid, sustained growth. Most trainees believe that rapid growth occurs only for beginners and those using anabolic drugs. The vast majority of trainees have to blast away and hope for the best. Growth is usually nonexistent or imperceptible. How on earth did things deteriorate in the century? That is not anywhere near good enough.

The test of truth is the results you get from your training. If you stop growing you have to change something. It might be an exercise, volume, resistance or frequency. Heaven help those who try to eat 'healthily' because most of those people do not have enough fuel to grow. That is really sad that so many are so confused about so little.

If someone assumes they have the best and truest method and then proceeds when do they abandon that method? With HIT training any failure can be 'explained' by suggesting the person wasn't training hard enough or perhaps was training too frequently. How would that person know what went wrong? What most bodybuilders do is listen to others. Today that includes reading forums on the internet. The muscle magazines don't seem to have the best minds writing for them. Oh, dear, I will never get another article published by them! Not to worry, there are more important things in life than building muscles.

You don't need an open mind for bodybuilding but you do need a good brain. If you are not intelligent then make sure you follow someone's advice that is. That is why Arthur Jones was effective in getting Sergio Oliva to grow bigger under his supervision. Most people do not have the capacity to do sufficiently progressive workouts that will stimulate additional hypertrophy. In other words, most of us are truly limited well below whatever hypertrophy might be possible in our muscles. If you doubt that then research Larry Scott. That man had very ordinary potential when he arrived in California. He was intelligent and found ways to generate more hypertrophy in his frame and eventually won the Mr Olympia and other top titles. His methods were absolutely brutal yet he became an excellent technologist of exercise performance. It wasn't sufficient to merely train hard; one had to do the right thing as well.

Another person who did his own thing was Bruce Randall. He won the Mr Universe way back in the late fifties. He evolved progressive training accompanied with forced progressive eating. When he shed his extra fat he displayed an amazing physique. He devised a program and then carried it out and was rewarded for that enterprise.

I wonder if any of the current champions have had to labour as hard as those two champions did? I doubt anyone won the Mr Olympia just by going through the motions and taking heaps of drugs.

Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12985
  • What you!
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #89 on: September 23, 2007, 05:31:17 AM »
I have a few designs on the drawing board but my members ask for seated leg curl machines and that kind of thing. Then I have to modify some Nautilus machines to make them more effective or easier to maintain. Actually coming up with a new machine is a really expensive thing to do re time and effort. It is much cheaper to buy equipment. My Hack squat machine took me something like 6 months to design and build. Then I spent another 2 or 3 months twice modifying it for various reasons. My biceps-supinator machine was conceived in 1987 then designed in 1991. I finally built the first prototype all by myself in 2001. I modified it several times since. Major surgery causes major adjustments to the way the machine worked. It is probably as good as I can build it.

I have a design for a running machine but so far haven't interested any company so haven't built it. I am sick of other people and companies in Australia copying some of my designs. I build equipment only for my gym where we have several unique machines that are nowhere else in the universe that I am aware of.

webcake

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16148
  • Not now chief...
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #90 on: September 23, 2007, 05:37:48 AM »
Vince i'm gonna try and have a workout at your gym soon. I've nearly completed my final year of school, then i'm going to TAFE next year to study personal training. Would be good to have a chat with you about your training ideas and all the stuff you got up to during your bodybuilding days. And of course, try out all those crazy machines.
No doubt about it...

Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12985
  • What you!
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #91 on: September 23, 2007, 05:43:45 AM »
Getbiggers sure know how to knock just about everyone. Whatever satisfaction does that abuser Goatboy get from knocking others here? He does that year after year. The ass could never disclose to his wife who he is. Neither does he dare show up at bodybuilding contests for fear of being assaulted by guys he has bagged. There are others here who do the Goatboy thing and think it is all a big laugh. The only service they do for the community is give the place some objective reality. Bodybuilding isn't important to 99% of the public and that is a shame. I don't think anyone in 1960 would have predicted the demise of this once noble sport. In 1959 Steve Reeves, as Hercules, inspired millions of young men to want to have a good physique. He was a man who lived a healthy life and what a shame he died so young a few years ago.

Goatboy is the mascot of Getbig. Anonymous, offensive and crude. He delights in destroying egos and diminishing the self-esteem of most who post here. His disciples and other misguided flotsam make sure few intelligent people are attracted to this forum. The baptism most receive is appalling and I doubt anything can be done about it. If you don't have a thick skin and a good sense of humour then you won't enjoy this sordid place.

The Ugly

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21287
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #92 on: September 23, 2007, 07:32:50 AM »
Discussion boards are an epic waste of time.

My claims are probably true. That others don't accept them is not my problem. The more science people know the worse they are at accepting theories. To me those people are poor scientists.

Most of the guys mentioned haven't nailed hypertrophy theory. A couple of those people I haven't read about.

A theory might be true even if no one else accepts or believes it.

The really sad thing is science has completely ignored bodybuilding as a valid study area. In the vacuum arise countless experts who can't produce much at all. I give full credit to anyone who can get results in others. The bottom line is no one seems to be able to succeed with everyone. The unpleasant truth is most guys who train hard aren't growing much if at all. Why is this so? Why, with all that knowledge do so many get so little out of training?

Hedgehog, you really surprise me. I have posted some basic routines. No one here believes what I say is possible. Look at the wannabes here on Getbig. I smile at guys like Goodrum and others who think they know heaps but aren't growing. Just about everyone believes you need drugs to get big. Oh, yeah, you have to have the genetics, whatever that is. This sport is filled to the brim with bullshit and rationalizations. No wonder the truth is still hidden from those clanging away with dumbbells! If all those experts know about growing muscles why do so many have so much trouble?  Part of the problem is knowing the truth isn't enough. You have to be able to apply the correct theory via the technology of hypertrophy training. Many cannot put enough mechanical tension on their target muscles. I have seen guys unable to stimulate their arms to grow because their deltoids do most of the work. These guys will be forever searching for the right method but the sad truth is no method can help them.

The bodybuilding magazines have been devoid of much in the way of helpful theories for decades now.


Getbiggers sure know how to knock just about everyone. Whatever satisfaction does that abuser Goatboy get from knocking others here? He does that year after year. The ass could never disclose to his wife who he is. Neither does he dare show up at bodybuilding contests for fear of being assaulted by guys he has bagged. There are others here who do the Goatboy thing and think it is all a big laugh. The only service they do for the community is give the place some objective reality. Bodybuilding isn't important to 99% of the public and that is a shame. I don't think anyone in 1960 would have predicted the demise of this once noble sport. In 1959 Steve Reeves, as Hercules, inspired millions of young men to want to have a good physique. He was a man who lived a healthy life and what a shame he died so young a few years ago.

Goatboy is the mascot of Getbig. Anonymous, offensive and crude. He delights in destroying egos and diminishing the self-esteem of most who post here. His disciples and other misguided flotsam make sure few intelligent people are attracted to this forum. The baptism most receive is appalling and I doubt anything can be done about it. If you don't have a thick skin and a good sense of humour then you won't enjoy this sordid place.

Let us examine hypertrophy methods. Which method is the best to quickly add muscle on a person who has lifted weights for years and has some results? Well, a philosopher would require a test for the truth of any competing theory. In bodybuilding that test is quite simple. Does the method yield rapid, sustained muscular growth? If you give any method a fair go you should be growing. If you have stopped growing then something must be wrong with what you are doing or your theory is false.

Because most bodybuilders have obtained some results they use this experience to gauge methods, etc., concerning bodybuilding. What confuses so many is that the growth obtained was not rapid and after a while those gains came slowly and often unpredictably. When you cannot measure your growth you become a religious person because you then rely on mysterious forces and faith. You have to believe all that you do is going to result in growth, eventually. Ah, what a joke bodybuilding has become. We have the knowledge, experience and tools to obtain rapid, sustained growth. Most trainees believe that rapid growth occurs only for beginners and those using anabolic drugs. The vast majority of trainees have to blast away and hope for the best. Growth is usually nonexistent or imperceptible. How on earth did things deteriorate in the century? That is not anywhere near good enough.

The test of truth is the results you get from your training. If you stop growing you have to change something. It might be an exercise, volume, resistance or frequency. Heaven help those who try to eat 'healthily' because most of those people do not have enough fuel to grow. That is really sad that so many are so confused about so little.

If someone assumes they have the best and truest method and then proceeds when do they abandon that method? With HIT training any failure can be 'explained' by suggesting the person wasn't training hard enough or perhaps was training too frequently. How would that person know what went wrong? What most bodybuilders do is listen to others. Today that includes reading forums on the internet. The muscle magazines don't seem to have the best minds writing for them. Oh, dear, I will never get another article published by them! Not to worry, there are more important things in life than building muscles.

You don't need an open mind for bodybuilding but you do need a good brain. If you are not intelligent then make sure you follow someone's advice that is. That is why Arthur Jones was effective in getting Sergio Oliva to grow bigger under his supervision. Most people do not have the capacity to do sufficiently progressive workouts that will stimulate additional hypertrophy. In other words, most of us are truly limited well below whatever hypertrophy might be possible in our muscles. If you doubt that then research Larry Scott. That man had very ordinary potential when he arrived in California. He was intelligent and found ways to generate more hypertrophy in his frame and eventually won the Mr Olympia and other top titles. His methods were absolutely brutal yet he became an excellent technologist of exercise performance. It wasn't sufficient to merely train hard; one had to do the right thing as well.

Another person who did his own thing was Bruce Randall. He won the Mr Universe way back in the late fifties. He evolved progressive training accompanied with forced progressive eating. When he shed his extra fat he displayed an amazing physique. He devised a program and then carried it out and was rewarded for that enterprise.

I wonder if any of the current champions have had to labour as hard as those two champions did? I doubt anyone won the Mr Olympia just by going through the motions and taking heaps of drugs.


Discussion boards are an epic waste of time.


A little help here?

knny187

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22005
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #93 on: September 23, 2007, 10:56:44 AM »

knny187

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22005
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #94 on: September 23, 2007, 10:57:41 AM »
Vince..

What are your thoughts on the ROM (4 min workout)



Not sure if you ever saw one.

Van_Bilderass

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16884
  • "Don't Try"
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #95 on: September 23, 2007, 12:27:21 PM »
Why should I, as a gym owner, give practical advice away for free? A bit like asking a doctor for free consultations. That is what we get for being bodybuilders. I have given advice about training, even at depth on this forum. Do a search and see. Or go to HST forum and search there. If you are intelligent you should be able to apply that information. If you need to be spoon fed then no one can help you. I don't charge my members for information but few bodybuilders listen to what I say. Nothing has changed in this regard and just about everyone thinks he knows all about training. I should have been a university professor and enjoyed that profession instead of opening a gym.

I got the T-shirt at Venice Beach in 2004. I got several tiger ones as a gift from a girlfriend.

I have seen the discussions on other boards. No one has become any wiser because of them... no one understands what you are talking about. People a lot smarter than me. What kind of IQ do you require to understand your theories? 200+?

If you consider yourself an expert why not leave something behind... do you want to take the "secrets" to your grave? What is the purpose of your "research"?

Do you know of anyone who understands your theories?

WOOO

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18158
  • Fuck the mods
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #96 on: September 23, 2007, 05:44:07 PM »

I couldn't win a novice show with that physique today.



TRUE  :)

Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12985
  • What you!
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #97 on: September 23, 2007, 06:28:27 PM »
See if you can comprehend this analogy. Imagine the set of all winning chess games. If you reverse engineer each of those games then you must win each of them. Likewise, imagine the set of all programs in bodybuilding that led to maximum possible hypertrophy from each workout. If you reverse engineered each method you would be able to grow at the maximum amount possible from each workout. It would be a simple thing to know what to do each time you trained.

I start with the premise that it is possible to grow maximally each time you train. Exactly what has to be done may or may not be known before you start. The gift from nature is there are feedback mechanisms that alert the brain that the muscles are growing rapidly. If you train and the next day there is no feedback that you are growing then that workout was insufficient to trigger further hypertrophy. You then have to retrain those target muscles and do something different. Doing the same unproductive thing is not intelligent or sane.

What confuses just about everyone who trains is that most do not perceive any growth from day to day. In the absence of any indicators of growth how on earth would you know if your workouts are productive? You have no idea and that explains why so many are oblivious about stimulating regular hypertrophy.

At all costs you must avoid the repeated bout effect. Science has shown that if you let the body adapt then the same stimulus used to trigger that adaptation will not be sufficient to trigger additional adaptation. Timing is everything. If you know what is happening in the muscles you will know when to train again. Some believe the muscles must be stimulated every 48 hours. Others insist that is too frequent. The ideal is to do the minimum amount of training for the maximum muscle growth. This includes training frequency. There is no point training daily if training every 3rd or 4th day results in the same amount of growth.

At all times one is guided by what works. If you are not growing after every single workout you are not training optimally. The one requirement that is controversial at the moment is volume. If you do not do sufficient volume then you cannot grow optimally. The amount of volume needed might vary with the size, experience and particular quality of each person's muscles. You don't do just anything but you have to start using methods that have worked for others who have succeeded in building huge physiques. The problem here is most of the huge guys today used drugs. We are talking only about natural bodybuilding. However, there is enough overlap regarding training that most guys who get big do similar kinds of training.

It may well be possible that several different methods might lead to maximum hypertrophy. The goal is to use the most effective but the method must be safe. If you get injured then your career will be over. For that reason alone I don't recommend HIT methods because they are too dangerous. Arthur Jones was right in that you train for size and don't demonstrate strength. There is no place in maximum hypertrophy for doing anything less than 5 reps. Even that number might be too low. It is better to do 10 to 15 reps as a target. After several maximum sets your rep number will decrease unless you lengthen the rest between sets.

Whatever the maximum rate of growth is the ideal might be somewhat less because methods have to be practical and sustainable. If it turns out that the maximum rate requires 8 hours training per day then only a lunatic could achieve that result. It would still be interesting if that were possible. I doubt training any less than a couple of hours a day will lead to much growth at all. I am talking about sustained hypertrophy here. It is my conjecture that hypertrophy is required for muscular endurance above a threshold strength level. It would be a simple matter to find out how long is ideal and how long is maximal.

There have been two opposing strategies in bodybuilding over the last 50 years. One method advocates training exceptionally hard but briefly. That is what Arthur Jones deduced from his experience with training himself and others in the Nautilus experiments. What a pity Arthur wasn't right about all of this. He revolutionized the way we think about training and the ideal is to train the minimum for the maximum results. Opposed to that ideal are the volume guys. These bodybuilders are from the make sure school of thinking. If you need protein to grow muscles then take more than you need to be sure you get enough. In the gym keep doing sets to make sure you have triggered hypertrophy. Some guys have done 50 or more sets per muscle group on training days. Who is right and how do we determine that?

Arthur Jones wrote about high intensity brief training over 30 years ago. If what he said were true then why isn't everyone training like he recommended? That is a problem that won't go away. I guess Arthur and others would have concluded that bodybuilders are just plain stupid. They are too thick to know a better method even when shoved down their throats. The one example that supports that way of training is Sergio Oliva. Sergio was a volume trainer from way back. He would do sets then come back and do some more. Lots of sets with heavy weights seems to be what is common to almost every program that guys with big muscles use. How, then, did Arthur train Sergio using briefer workouts that led to even more growth on this huge bodybuilder? Well, those workouts were hardly pure HIT. Those leg workouts resembled what Milos does but using way more resistance. The ideal was to finish with a set of squats using 400 pounds for something like 15 reps. Before doing squats you exhausted those leg muscles using heavy leg presses for something like 20 to 30 reps then following that with leg extension for another 20 reps. Sergio would be pushed on each phase and rushed to the next exercise. If one used two cycles of this routine then it is clear it is a super intense volume method. The time factor generates more intensity. Would the same result be achieved spreading the workout over a longer period?

I haven't known of any professional bodybuilder who has obtained his size using brief workouts. That should tell us that HIT is a pipedream. You absolutely have to do only workouts that lead to rapid, sustained growth. There is no evidence that HIT will achieve this goal. It is not sustainable. Therefore, the true method has to be one with much more volume.

How much volume is required to sustain growth? This is much easier to estimate. We conjecture it is something between 5 and 10 maximum sets of 10 to 15 reps. It may be possible to grow even more using more sets but this is unknown until some stalwart volunteers experiment with more volume. If it were possible to put 2 inches on your arms in one month would the amount of training time matter? My estimate is you should be able to grow a tenth of an inch per arm workout. If you train every 3rd day that will mean you will put an inch on your arms in a month. It is not known if this rate can be sustained but I think that is a conservative estimate.

The one absolutely necessary requirement is one must eat enough food and drink to put bodyweight on. I can't tell you how many guys miss this essential ingredient. Most modern bodybuilders try to eat properly and forget to eat sufficiently. The goal is to be slightly heavier each and every training day. All you need is a very accurate scale to guide you. If you are lighter you must eat something before training. Whether you will benefit from pre, during and post workout intakes of nutrients has not been established. If it works then you should be doing that. The trick is to keep factors separate and test them to determine what is necessary and what is sufficient. Doing anything less is chaos. You always proceed in a scientific fashion where you try to know what is working and what is not. If you are not growing from each workout you are doing something wrong. Your next workout has to be different.

Well, this in enough for a birthday thread. If people cannot comprehend theories and distill useful information then that is too bad. I have no intention of prescribing protocols for knuckleheads. Do your own damn thinking and experimenting.

pumpster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18890
  • If you're reading this you have too much free time
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #98 on: September 23, 2007, 06:48:37 PM »
Good post Vince

Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12985
  • What you!
Re: Vince Basile 65 years young today!
« Reply #99 on: September 23, 2007, 07:06:09 PM »
Who would have thought anyone would end up writing serious articles for the Getbig Gossip forum instead of the muscle magazines? Those mags don't pay enough and they don't recognize good information when they see it. Plus, all the current writers and editors don't want smart asses on their staffs because that is a threat to their jobs.