Vince Basile 65 years young today!

[Hedgehog]

Basile, Basile, Basile...

You still just talk a bunch of shit about how everything's possible, and what we know, and what may be possible.

How about this answer this simple question: How often do you think one should train?

[Vince B]

I have answered that question. Your post sounds more like crap than mine do! Shame on you if you are a moderator.

The theory can't be chopped into sets and reps you know. Sure we eventually have to mention those things but the main thing is to get the theory right. At least this forum reveals what others understand and don't get from what we post. Sort of a negative, but important just the same to anyone thinking about writing a book.

From training for my pinch grip world record of 92.5 kg or 203 pounds with one hand I concluded that the best frequency for strength is every 4th day. If I trained earlier or later I didn't get stronger. It remains to be seen if 4 days is optimal for hypertrophy. Part of the problem is keeping the muscles in a growing state. If you train too infrequently like HIT recommends you come up against the RBE and you can't easily grow. If you think about rolling a big truck tyre down the road you know it is easier to keep it rolling instead of stopping and trying to get it rolling again. That is what you have to do with the muscles. With that in mind you use the body's feedback mechanism to tell you when to retrain the muscle.

What we don't know is if it is possible to approach the hypertrophy gained by fowl in various experiments done where a weight is attached to one wing. Antonio was able to get some fowl to increase hypertrophy in the anterior latissimus dorsi muscle by 300% in one month. That is amazing. Imagine if we could grow even 50% in one month? That is why I keep an open mind about what is possible. The guru approach using drugs is a shortcut that is downright insane. If what GH15 says is true then every pro today should have his head read by psychiatrists for that is patent lunacy without any doubt.

HST people try to use research to form their method. Haycock believes you need to stimulate muscles as soon as they stop synthesizing protein. For practical purposes he recommends training every 48 hours but perhaps every 36 hours is ideal. I am not convinced he is right but this will be settled by research and results and not by arguments. It may be possible to train for long periods daily and grow incredibly fast. No one has tried this as far as I know. Would be an interesting experiment. I caution anyone thinking about frequent training to consider the connective tissue. They may or may not adapt to keep up with the hypertrophy. It would seem bizarre if the connective tissue didn't support whatever hypertrophy is needed. We do know that connective tissue injuries take longer to heal than muscle injuries. Whether growth states and injuries are similar is something I do not know.

To be conservative I think the sort of training I recommend requires some rest. You can retrain a sore muscle and that might even be necessary to keep the muscle growing. I can tell you that even sore muscles soon adapt to frequent training after a substantial warm up of many lighter sets. There is a method behind what I say. It is not just theory. What I conclude is what I have found for myself through years and years of training and searching.

In 1969 Doug Hepburn trained me for a couple of weeks on arms. We used his personal home apparatus that had only concentric resistance. His protocol? Warm up and then do supersets for 20 sets of 5 reps for biceps and triceps. East set to be the limit of what you can do for those reps. I can tell you that wasn't a method I approved of. I did put on 1/2 inch in those two weeks having 4 workouts. So that is about the same growth that I experienced myself using a different program in 1998.  Twice a week splits the difference between 3 and 4 days. With gyms open 7 days a week you can train whenever you like. I doubt the muscles know anything about weeks having seven days.

[onlyme]

...or calf raises, or deadlifts, and so on...

hey asshole, that one even made me laugh

[onlyme]

No offense but I've seen recent pics of you and you are the LAST person who should be calling himself a "bodybuilder", much less giving out bodybuilding advice.

Shit man even this posts makes me all wiggly inside.  I take this as a backhanded compliment

[G o a t b o y]

.

[Vince B]

Hey, Goatboy, I know you really, really, really want to make a man of yourself. You gave up trying years ago and still weigh under 160 pounds. No matter, salvation is at hand. It is also free of charge. All you have to do is post a before photo of your very ordinary swimmer's physique and I will help you transcend that puny existence and become a he-man. You will finally be able to look at yourself in the mirror without self-owning yourself to epic extremes. At the beach you will get the admiration of both women and men alike, much to your wife's dismay. Your destiny is not with the likes of Goodrum and other flotsam and wannabes. You can make a difference in yourself and then you can rejoin this community as yourself instead of hiding in the closet of hope year after sordid year. What kind of existence is that?!

[AVBG]

Great 60's pics Vince, keep 'em coming. 

[Bluto]

is that goatboys hand? looks like it belongs on a fat bastard

[Bluto]

im currently at the gym 7 days a week, twice a day. im pretty sure this is the road to hypertrophy success!

[Hedgehog]

I have answered that question. Your post sounds more like crap than mine do! Shame on you if you are a moderator.

The theory can't be chopped into sets and reps you know. Sure we eventually have to mention those things but the main thing is to get the theory right. At least this forum reveals what others understand and don't get from what we post. Sort of a negative, but important just the same to anyone thinking about writing a book.

From training for my pinch grip world record of 92.5 kg or 203 pounds with one hand I concluded that the best frequency for strength is every 4th day. If I trained earlier or later I didn't get stronger. It remains to be seen if 4 days is optimal for hypertrophy. Part of the problem is keeping the muscles in a growing state. If you train too infrequently like HIT recommends you come up against the RBE and you can't easily grow. If you think about rolling a big truck tyre down the road you know it is easier to keep it rolling instead of stopping and trying to get it rolling again. That is what you have to do with the muscles. With that in mind you use the body's feedback mechanism to tell you when to retrain the muscle.

Ok. So you believe that training every 4th day is optimal.

Why then did Saltin et al found evidence that training twice every other day could be optimal?

[Hedgehog]

im currently at the gym 7 days a week, twice a day. im pretty sure this is the road to hypertrophy success!

How much weight have you been able to gain the last year?

[Bluto]

How much weight have you been able to gain the last year?

i've put on some good weight, but thats merely because im into hypertrophy now, and not functional strength that i was before.

ill give my current routine a couple of months and we should see

[Get Rowdy]

Short version of Vince's Theory:

Train every 4th day
5 - 10 max sets per bodypart
10 - 15 reps
Eat enough to grow
If not growing, change something 

[Bluto]

genius. pure genius!

[Hedgehog]

Short version of Vince's Theory:

Train every 4th day
5 - 10 max sets per bodypart
10 - 15 reps
Eat enough to grow
If not growing, change something 

Nice.

And that "theory" isn't exactly something new under the sun.

That's why the old gimp is so reluctant to spell out his routines:

He ain't got no magic pill. He just like to come across like he does.

[Hedgehog]

BTW, I remember when Basile was on Thibaudeau's nutsacks when Thib made one or two posts here.

Claimed that Thib "was a student of hypertrophy", or some ridiculous bullshit like that.

Basile's reason for sucking the cock of Thib, was that Thib was getting published.

Very logical.

No offence to Thib, who writes lots of good articles, but Basile is nothing but a con artist, right up there with Snake Oil Unlimited.

[Bluto]

BTW, I remember when Basile was on Thibaudeau's nutsacks when Thib made one or two posts here.

Claimed that Thib "was a student of hypertrophy", or some ridiculous bullshit like that.

Basile's reason for sucking the cock of Thib, was that Thib was getting published.

Very logical.

No offence to Thib, who writes lots of good articles, but Basile is nothing but a con artist, right up there with Snake Oil Unlimited.

too bad thib doesnt post here more, could've been interesting

[Vince B]

I respect Milos and if he can make money from this business then I take my hat off to him. Not many guys have integrity nowadays.

To reply to the Hedginghog. I didn't say training every 4th day was optimal for hypertrophy but it might be for strength. Twice a week might be the practical frequency. It is unknown if daily training or every other day will result in more growth. Why that is still unknown is really a mystery. What the heck are those exercise scientists doing in those labs?

It is one thing to grow maximally and who knows the exact prescriptions for that enterprise? If we forget about that but try to sustain growth then we can find something that is doable. This is where perhaps 1 to 2 hours per bodypart twice a week might be sufficient to keep an already hypertrophied muscle growing. If you can't measure the growth you have to try something else. If you don't have a good brain maybe you should play computer games or something like that.

[kiwiol]

No offense but I've seen recent pics of you and you are the LAST person who should be calling himself a "bodybuilder", much less giving out bodybuilding advice.

Are you saying Vince could give Christian Bale a run for the muscularity award, but only if you are talking about his shape in the movie 'The Machinist', Pandaemonium?

[Vince B]

You know, when I read the insults Hedgehog posts it makes me wonder if moderators are chosen for the same reasons as IFBB judges are. I am going to have to write for the standard deviation below the mean to reach some of these lads.

[Paul Allen]

vince, i must ask...with all of your out of this world training methods and your anus invading bicep supinating reverse curl machines.....

you never grew past a 5'9" 155 lb dweeb?

[The Ugly]

You know, when I read the insults Hedgehog posts it makes me wonder if moderators are chosen for the same reasons as IFBB judges are. I am going to have to write for the standard deviation below the mean to reach some of these lads.

Ever thought about writing a book, Vince? You have much to say.

Start today, drop in once a year to keep us updated.

Good luck.

[Hedgehog]

You know, when I read the insults Hedgehog posts it makes me wonder if moderators are chosen for the same reasons as IFBB judges are. I am going to have to write for the standard deviation below the mean to reach some of these lads.

I've been trying to get anything structured from you for close to 4 years now.

It ain't happening. Over the years I've seen you constantly deflect every attempt from serious trainers to get at the holy grail you promises them.

Frankly, I think you're dishonest.

If you wouldn't pretend like you had some answer to how hypertrophy could be achieved most efficiently, I would not bother.

But you keep on bullshitting. And when people come on Getbig and tries to bullshit, they usually get called on it. That's one of the Getbig trademarks IMO.

Eg, you still have some people on this board, who's lining up to come and train under you in your gym, only because of the fairy tales you've been telling about how hypertrophy "may be possible".

It is unknown if daily training or every other day will result in more growth. Why that is still unknown is really a mystery. What the heck are those exercise scientists doing in those labs?

You're wrong, as usual.

Stop your bullshit already.

There have been a study done. Didn't I just write that?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=15361516&ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

[Vince B]

That study is totally irrelevant to bodybuilding. If you are going to refute me you will have to do infinitely better than that. Why quote a study using untrained subjects? We need to know how to get intermediate and advanced bodybuilders bigger. That is where you need the right theory. Fooling around with untrained subjects for a short period of time is a waste of everyone's time.

When a moderator asks people to contribute and then personally attacks them by calling them dishonest is it any wonder this place sucks? You have no credibility or standing as a moderator, in my opinion. I find your attitude intellectually offensive.

[Hedgehog]

That study is totally irrelevant to bodybuilding. If you are going to refute me you will have to do infinitely better than that. Why quote a study using untrained subjects? We need to know how to get intermediate and advanced bodybuilders bigger. That is where you need the right theory. Fooling around with untrained subjects for a short period of time is a waste of everyone's time.

When a moderator asks people to contribute and then personally attacks them by calling them dishonest is it any wonder this place sucks? You have no credibility or standing as a moderator, in my opinion. I find your attitude intellectually offensive.

Guess what?

I find your attitude somewhat anti-intellectual in general Basile.



I ask you to back your shit up, and have for a long time. Your replies are usually along the lines of "I don't have to/I have no obligation to".

You think this place sucks? Ok.

Then we are of two completely different opinions.

Yet again you try to blame the messenger, instead of addressing the critisism: That you're not backing up your shit.

You're not giving any concrete.

You're just doing the usual "Basile Routine", ie write a 5 paragraphs about nothing, and suggest how maybe perhaps something is possible if training is done in a certain fashion. And that we know things, and that we don't know other things.

It's absolutely priceless when I present a study conducted by one of the most respected sports scientists in the world, Saltin, and you dismiss it right off the bat.

You either must know some goddamn secret that everyone else is unaware of, or you're full of shit, someone who don't know jack shit about scientific research or the whereabouts of it.

What option do you think it is Vince?