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Author Topic: We Shouldn't Always Believe What the "Leading Experts" Tell Us about Evolution  (Read 6185 times)
OzmO
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« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2007, 08:59:07 AM »

Presumably you are qualified to decide what can and can't be taught in science classes in school because you have a PhD in molecular biology? Or perhaps you are a tenured professor in nuclear physics?

Before passing judgment on scientific ideas that are the product of centuries of hard labor on the part of humanity's greatest minds, perhaps you should acquaint yourself a bit with those ideas.

No, reading posts on Getbig doesn't count Wink

I can pass as much judgment and give as many opinions as i want.   

Do you have a PHD?   Even if you do, maybe you just shut the fcuk up and stop being a snippy little bitch.

If you took the time to read you'd realize what flavor the kool-aid was before you got up in it.

I was having a discussion with someone else and was voicing my opinion about what should be taught in schools and how it should be taught.  For the most part it's taught exactly how it should be.

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columbusdude82
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« Reply #51 on: September 26, 2007, 09:03:50 AM »

Oh my... aren't we melting down all over the place today...
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OzmO
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« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2007, 09:09:44 AM »

Oh my... aren't we melting down all over the place today...

No, but i'm alert enough to read before i post.   Roll Eyes
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Dos Equis
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« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2007, 11:59:10 AM »

I like this thread.   Smiley
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gcb
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« Reply #54 on: September 26, 2007, 09:11:42 PM »

Logical thinking:

If one theory is wrong does not imply that a contradictory theory is right.

A lot of you religious folks make the mistake of thinking because you have found "holes" in evolution you have therefore substantiated creationism - on the contrary it could be that both theories are false. Disproving evolution does not prove creationism.
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OzmO
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« Reply #55 on: September 26, 2007, 09:14:53 PM »

Logical thinking:

If one theory is wrong does not imply that a contradictory theory is right.

A lot of you religious folks make the mistake of thinking because you have found "holes" in evolution you have therefore substantiated creationism - on the contrary it could be that both theories are false. Disproving evolution does not prove creationism.

no doubt
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Necrosis
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« Reply #56 on: September 26, 2007, 09:26:08 PM »

no doubt

ozmo, once you read about biology, and even other disciplines such as immunology, medicine, biochem etc the patterns and commonalities become obvious.


you are right in a way, i think your getting caught up on the fact that evolution can not be known 100%, i dont beleive anything can in reality to be honest, there always seems to be exceptions or more knowledge to acquire. but macroevolution works on humungous time scales, so "observation" of it as its occuring is impossible in reality, but its consequence(microevolution) can be seen.

however, i think you get this point but a better question is if macroevolution is wrong, just hypothetically, what do you propose is the correct theory?

i mean, do you beleive that god selectively participated in the start of each species, then for some reason allowed a natural process(micro evolution) to occur in his place to ensure the surivival. Obviously there is a natural explanation for the beginning of life on earth, and the proliferation of it, wouldnt you agree?

if not, write down an alternative theory. honestly, or your thoughts, id be interested to hear them.

im not being condescending at all either.

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gcb
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« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2007, 09:35:02 PM »

It is not strictly true that we cannot observe macroevolution - we have been breeding domesticated animals using something other than natural selection for centuries. This suggests natural (ie. natural selection) evolution in an environment devoid of mans influence.
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« Reply #58 on: September 26, 2007, 09:46:39 PM »

It is not strictly true that we cannot observe macroevolution - we have been breeding domesticated animals using something other than natural selection for centuries. This suggests natural (ie. natural selection) evolution in an environment devoid of mans influence.

yes speciation. i think the sticking point is more so changes within families or phyla. as well, there is a misconception that macroevolution is instantaneous, which is not the case.

have changes in families or phyla been observed? i would imagine the time scale would be very prohibitive.

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« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2007, 10:19:34 PM »

It is not strictly true that we cannot observe macroevolution - we have been breeding domesticated animals using something other than natural selection for centuries. This suggests natural (ie. natural selection) evolution in an environment devoid of mans influence.
yeah but the thing is none of these domesticated animals are evolving into anything else.They are still according to their kind.
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columbusdude82
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« Reply #60 on: September 27, 2007, 05:16:06 AM »

yeah but the thing is none of these domesticated animals are evolving into anything else.They are still according to their kind.
Dogs are domesticated wolves. How do dogs differ from other wolves?
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OzmO
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« Reply #61 on: September 27, 2007, 09:15:44 AM »

ozmo, once you read about biology, and even other disciplines such as immunology, medicine, biochem etc the patterns and commonalities become obvious.


you are right in a way, i think your getting caught up on the fact that evolution can not be known 100%, i dont beleive anything can in reality to be honest, there always seems to be exceptions or more knowledge to acquire. but macroevolution works on humungous time scales, so "observation" of it as its occuring is impossible in reality, but its consequence(microevolution) can be seen.

however, i think you get this point but a better question is if macroevolution is wrong, just hypothetically, what do you propose is the correct theory?

i mean, do you beleive that god selectively participated in the start of each species, then for some reason allowed a natural process(micro evolution) to occur in his place to ensure the surivival. Obviously there is a natural explanation for the beginning of life on earth, and the proliferation of it, wouldnt you agree?

if not, write down an alternative theory. honestly, or your thoughts, id be interested to hear them.

im not being condescending at all either.



My main point is that we don't know 100% for sure and that a discovery or invention may give new insight on how all this happened.   I see your point that there is no way to observe it as it happens and that's just the thing with trying to find out about something that happened long ago in the past.   We weren't there.  So there is a strong possibility that something may have happened that we don;t know about that might change what we think happen.  And I'm not talking about something magical like God making things appear instantly. 

I believe Evolution the way science has described it as something that has probably happened and i believe it's part of "God's" way of creating life in the universe.   I don't think a pool of elements over a period of billions of years produced Humans all by its self.   

I see Scientists and Atheists being able to describe every detail of a tree so much so they fail to see the Forrest.
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NeoSeminole
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« Reply #62 on: September 27, 2007, 09:54:26 AM »

yeah but the thing is none of these domesticated animals are evolving into anything else.They are still according to their kind.

what is your definition of a "kind?"
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Deicide
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« Reply #63 on: September 27, 2007, 04:07:00 PM »

My main point is that we don't know 100% for sure and that a discovery or invention may give new insight on how all this happened.   I see your point that there is no way to observe it as it happens and that's just the thing with trying to find out about something that happened long ago in the past.   We weren't there.  So there is a strong possibility that something may have happened that we don;t know about that might change what we think happen.  And I'm not talking about something magical like God making things appear instantly. 

I believe Evolution the way science has described it as something that has probably happened and i believe it's part of "God's" way of creating life in the universe.   I don't think a pool of elements over a period of billions of years produced Humans all by its self.   

I see Scientists and Atheists being able to describe every detail of a tree so much so they fail to see the Forrest.

I.E. Unintelligent Design...
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OzmO
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« Reply #64 on: September 27, 2007, 04:18:30 PM »

I.E. Unintelligent Design...

On the surface yes, it would seem so.  Much like an imperfect leaf or branch.   Look at the whole forest from the finite particles of energy to what your eyes see.. 

It's brilliant.
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Deicide
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« Reply #65 on: September 27, 2007, 06:31:19 PM »

On the surface yes, it would seem so.  Much like an imperfect leaf or branch.   Look at the whole forest from the finite particles of energy to what your eyes see.. 

It's brilliant.

Our plumbing...subtly beautiful.... Roll Eyes
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OzmO
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« Reply #66 on: September 27, 2007, 07:00:13 PM »

Our plumbing...subtly beautiful.... Roll Eyes

rotting trees, worms and pigs
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gcb
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« Reply #67 on: September 27, 2007, 07:58:43 PM »

yeah but the thing is none of these domesticated animals are evolving into anything else.They are still according to their kind.

Are chihuahuas not different enough to wolves? Man has not been trying to breed another species with these dogs just refine/bolster the particular attributes they are interested in.
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nzhardgain
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« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2007, 01:22:25 AM »

Are chihuahuas not different enough to wolves? Man has not been trying to breed another specifies with these dogs just refine/bolster the particular attributes they are interested in.

you are saying chihuahuas are a link in the chain between dogs and rodents?
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loco
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« Reply #69 on: September 28, 2007, 05:48:42 AM »

Our plumbing...subtly beautiful.... Roll Eyes

Trapezkerl,
I think that this is the third time that I see you complain about our plumbing, peeing and pooping.  Why is that?

I don't have any problems with my plumbing.  Peeing and pooping, in other words, relieving yourself is one of life's little pleasures, and it is free.   Grin

You don't think so?  Then I recommend adding more fiber to your diet, and more water too.  Add some cranberry juice too.  I've heard that it helps clear out urinary track infections, if that's the problem.     Smiley

Oh, and low-carb diets can make you hate your plumbing too.  Carbs are loaded with water and some even with fiber.  Protein and fat have neither water nor fiber.  People don't realize how much they lower their water and fiber intake when they go low carb.
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OzmO
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« Reply #70 on: September 28, 2007, 10:49:57 AM »

Trapezkerl,
I think that this is the third time that I see you complain about our plumbing, peeing and pooping.  Why is that?

I don't have any problems with my plumbing.  Peeing and pooping, in other words, relieving yourself is one of life's little pleasures, and it is free.   Grin

You don't think so?  Then I recommend adding more fiber to your diet, and more water too.  Add some cranberry juice too.  I've heard that it helps clear out urinary track infections, if that's the problem.     Smiley

Oh, and low-carb diets can make you hate your plumbing too.  Carbs are loaded with water and some even with fiber.  Protein and fat have neither water nor fiber.  People don't realize how much they lower their water and fiber intake when they go low carb.


What's so screwy about our plumbing anyway?   Waste is processed and ejected.   So what?   If you are sick it throws everything into a bit of chaos....same would happen with the best designed machine if it needed maintenance.

I wonder what the manufacturing defect rate would be for a machine like that vs the defect rate for people at age 18?

And could those machines reproduce themselves?
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