Muay Thai versus Karate part II

[realkarateblackbelt]

Please just don't say anything ridiculous like Tank in his prime would be a top ten fighter now... TANK SUCKS and ALWAYS HAS!

That's proof (along with my Sapp beating Hoost twice thread) that strength is more important than training in fighting.

Tank has knocked out countless trained fighters, and almost knocked out Don Frye. Imagine how bad he would be if he trained hard and developed cardio and serious ground skills. Imagine how bad Sapp would be! Shit, Sapp already beat former k-1 champion and Muay-Thai fighter Ernesto Hoost with "NFL" as his fighting style.

A tall strongman competitor that trains in wrestling and kyokushin or muay-thai would probably be the toughest fighter in the world.

[*ChuteBoxe*]

actually i have. for many years.

Wow, your nose is growing with every post.

[americanbulldog]

Dude, it aint 1963. 

Secondly, why not answer my questions?

Which prominent MMA fightcamp doesn't have a thai coach, and which ones bring in Karate insructors to cross train?  Why has sooo many Karatekas left karate, and train almost exclusively in muay thai?  (I know the answer as does everyone else who frequents here, I just wanna see if you'll man up and answer the question)  At times like this, I suspect you and Bluto are one and the same. 

[Captain Equipoise]

Wow, your nose is growing with every post.

LOL, totally agreed!

[realkarateblackbelt]

Dude, it aint 1963. 

Secondly, why not answer my questions?

Which prominent MMA fightcamp doesn't have a thai coach, and which ones bring in Karate insructors to cross train?  Why has sooo many Karatekas left karate, and train almost exclusively in muay thai?  (I know the answer as does everyone else who frequents here, I just wanna see if you'll man up and answer the question)  At times like this, I suspect you and Bluto are one and the same. 

I already answered your questions at least twice now, in this thread alone. And no, I'm not Bluto.
I also posted links to legit karate fighters beating legit kickboxers and muay-thai guys.
The champion of standup fighting is a seidokaikan fighter. Clinching is grappling.

I also answered your thread, and I'm not sure what the date has to do with it.

This thread is called Muay-Thai vs. Karate...

Well guess what, Muay-Thai vs. Karate already happened in 1963 and the Karate guys won 2 - 1 in Lumpinee stadium, Thailand
long before people started crosstraining I might add.

[realkarateblackbelt]

A god amongst mere mortals!!!! Probably was the pound for pound greatest standup fighter ever.
They don't wear sissy gloves in Karate and they break bricks with their bare hands!

[realkarateblackbelt]

This is what real Japanese karate is about...100 man fights, bareknuckle combat, spinning back kicks, bullfighting,
and shattering thick ice and baseball bats with the unprotected hand or foot.
Thai fighters usually punch a bag for 5 hours, and we all know a bag doesn't hit back.
Full-contact karate is far tougher than muay-thai training.

[Captain Equipoise]

This is what real Japanese karate is about...100 man fights, bareknuckle combat, spinning back kicks, bullfighting,
and shattering thick ice and baseball bats with the unprotected hand or foot.
Thai fighters usually punch a bag for 5 hours, and we all know a bag doesn't hit back.
Full-contact karate is far tougher than muay-thai training.

You're beyond delusional, karate is a joke.. along with TKD,  it's great for kids to learn discipline and channel their anger in their teenage years , but that's about it.. why don't you try a few MT sessions and then we'll see what tune you'll be singing... oh and I'm not talking about some Tae Bo aerobic kickboxing bullshit, I mean *REAL*  MT.

[americanbulldog]

This is what real Japanese karate is about...100 man fights, bareknuckle combat, spinning back kicks, bullfighting,
and shattering thick ice and baseball bats with the unprotected hand or foot.
Thai fighters usually punch a bag for 5 hours, and we all know a bag doesn't hit back.
Full-contact karate is far tougher than muay-thai training.

I am glad you won't answer a direct question.  It seems getting a third degree clouds your sense of reason, and you won't man up to certain truths.  Fair enough.  Let me say this, Karate is a good art, that a lot of us, myself included got our start in.  It HAS produced SOME fine fighting champions.  That being said, for the sake of answering a question you refuse to accept exists, I will do it for you.  They aren't rushing out to do Karate BECAUSE when it was thrown into the laboratory of fighting that was previously NHB, and has since evolved into MMA, Karate has proven to be ineffecitve in preparing fighters to FIGHT.  How many Sabaki challenge winners have won a major MMA title?  (Not K1, but MMA, because we are on an MMA board)  We know how many camps (all of them) think of Muay Thai, all camps have a dedicated Thai trainer.  How many have a dedicated Karate trainer?  ANSWER, NONE.  End of debate. 

[realkarateblackbelt]

You're beyond delusional, karate is a joke.. along with TKD,  it's great for kids to learn discipline and channel their anger in their teenage years , but that's about it.. why don't you try a few MT sessions and then we'll see what tune you'll be singing... oh and I'm not talking about some Tae Bo aerobic kickboxing bullshit, I mean *REAL*  MT.

Hmmm. So you know more about fighting than world champions Andy Hug and Semmy Schilt? Interesting.

[realkarateblackbelt]

I am glad you won't answer a direct question.  It seems getting a third degree clouds your sense of reason, and you won't man up to certain truths.  Fair enough.

 

I already answered your questions a million times. You just aren't getting the answers you wanted. Sorry to shatter your belief that Mauy-Thai is the greatest standup. It's not.

Let me say this, Karate is a good art, that a lot of us, myself included got our start in.  It HAS produced SOME fine fighting champions.

It's produced many, many champions, including the current champion of k-1 now. It seems that when the the Muay-Thai guys leave Thailand and stop fighting other Muay-Thai fighters they lose to the hardcore karate fighters.

That being said, for the sake of answering a question you refuse to accept exists, I will do it for you.  They aren't rushing out to do Karate BECAUSE when it was thrown into the laboratory of fighting that was previously NHB, and has since evolved into MMA, Karate has proven to be ineffecitve in preparing fighters to FIGHT.

 

Bas Rutten trained in karate all his life, as did GSP, as did Hug, Machida, et al. How much more training in karate do they need?
These guys are already experts. Been there, done that with you.

How many Sabaki challenge winners have won a major MMA title?  (Not K1, but MMA, because we are on an MMA board)  We know how many camps (all of them) think of Muay Thai, all camps have a dedicated Thai trainer.  How many have a dedicated Karate trainer?  ANSWER, NONE.  End of debate. 

Oh, so it's about MMA now. Funny that when the facts prove you to be wrong in all your assertions, you go back on your original idea. The thread, need I remind you, is called Muay-Thai vs. Karate...so now you've changed it to Karate and MMA since I already proved Muay-Thai is inferior to hardcore karate. But yes, many karate fighters use the style as their standup and continue to win.

Keith Hackney beat a 600 pound sumo wrestler with his Kempo karate. Is that proof Karate is effective vs. larger opponents? 

Are Muay-Thai fighters fighting a resisting opponent when they punch a bag? No.

Hardcore Karate training is far tougher than Muay-Thai, and the technique is also superior.
These guys smash bricks with their bare fist and engage in bare-knuckled fist-fights with up to 100 people in a day.
The strikes include everything in Muay-Thai and much more.
Even Tae Kwon Do is superior to Muay-Thai technique-wise, but they don't do good because they aren't conditioned to take punches usually. This is not so with hardcore karate however.

So to answer the original idea of this thread (started by you):

This thread is called Muay-Thai vs. Karate...

Well guess what, Muay-Thai vs. Karate already happened in 1963 and the Karate guys won 2 - 1 in Lumpinee stadium, Thailand
long before people started crosstraining I might add.

End of debate.

[nuyork143]

Who gives a fuck?  Muay-Thai/ Karate/ Kempo/ TKD/ Savate/ any other BS Martial Arts...its about MMA now not just one specific style!

[americanbulldog]

 

I already answered your questions a million times. You just aren't getting the answers you wanted. Sorry to shatter your belief that Mauy-Thai is the greatest standup. It's not.

It's produced many, many champions, including the current champion of k-1 now. It seems that when the the Muay-Thai guys leave Thailand and stop fighting other Muay-Thai fighters they lose to the hardcore karate fighters.
 

Bas Rutten trained in karate all his life, as did GSP, as did Hug, Machida, et al. How much more training in karate do they need?
These guys are already experts. Been there, done that with you.

Oh, so it's about MMA now. Funny that when the facts prove you to be wrong in all your assertions, you go back on your original idea. The thread, need I remind you, is called Muay-Thai vs. Karate...so now you've changed it to Karate and MMA since I already proved Muay-Thai is inferior to hardcore karate. But yes, many karate fighters use the style as their standup and continue to win.

Keith Hackney beat a 600 pound sumo wrestler with his Kempo karate. Is that proof Karate is effective vs. larger opponents? 

Are Muay-Thai fighters fighting a resisting opponent when they punch a bag? No.

Hardcore Karate training is far tougher than Muay-Thai, and the technique is also superior.
These guys smash bricks with their bare fist and engage in bare-knuckled fist-fights with up to 100 people in a day.
The strikes include everything in Muay-Thai and much more.
Even Tae Kwon Do is superior to Muay-Thai technique-wise, but they don't do good because they aren't conditioned to take punches usually. This is not so with hardcore karate however.

So to answer the original idea of this thread (started by you):

This thread is called Muay-Thai vs. Karate...

Well guess what, Muay-Thai vs. Karate already happened in 1963 and the Karate guys won 2 - 1 in Lumpinee stadium, Thailand
long before people started crosstraining I might add.

End of debate.

So I GUESS PBF, Hatton, Talor Pavlik no longer need to train boxing anymore, they've done it all their lives?  Your a clown.  Those guys still train to stay at the top of their game.  Their game is boxing. THIS IS AN MMA FORUM.  You came on here extolling that karate is teh best, and everyone should ask you questions because you are a "realkarateblackbelt."  You even showed a copy of your mcdojo rank to give you a sense of superiortiy. 

Bas no longer trains karate, because most elements don't facilitate what fighting NHB/MMA.  Neither does GSP.  Why is Machida "cross training" in muay thai at blackhouse if karate has all the answers?  Name ONE TOP fight club that has a karate teacher/trainer?

Guess what, you won't answer any of these, because you can't.  Realkaratefraud.  This from a former karateka. 

[ATHEIST]

WINNER.....AMERICANBULLD OG!!

Even i got a blackbelt from a McDojo..you can ask me questions too then!
Kiiiya!! Osu!

[realkarateblackbelt]

"There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then."

"Beating the hell out of the Muay-Thai guys since 1963."

[realkarateblackbelt]

So I GUESS PBF, Hatton, Talor Pavlik no longer need to train boxing anymore, they've done it all their lives?  Your a clown.  Those guys still train to stay at the top of their game.  Their game is boxing. THIS IS AN MMA FORUM.  You came on here extolling that karate is teh best, and everyone should ask you questions because you are a "realkarateblackbelt."  You even showed a copy of your mcdojo rank to give you a sense of superiortiy. 

Bas no longer trains karate, because most elements don't facilitate what fighting NHB/MMA.  Neither does GSP.  Why is Machida "cross training" in muay thai at blackhouse if karate has all the answers?  Name ONE TOP fight club that has a karate teacher/trainer?

Guess what, you won't answer any of these, because you can't.  Realkaratefraud.  This from a former karateka. 

He's still training the same techniques he learned a long time ago in Karate by taking Muay-Thai. 
Bas Rutten said he still does katas in a recent interview, so you're wrong again...as usual
Machida started cross training Muay-Thai long after he was winning mma fights with karate.   

Karate is superior to Muay-Thai training-wise and technique-wise.

The K-1 champ is a karate fighter.

"There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then."

"Beating the hell out of the Muay-Thai guys since 1963."

[nuyork143]

He's still training the same techniques he learned a long time ago in Karate by taking Muay-Thai. 
Bas Rutten said he still does katas in a recent interview, so you're wrong again...as usual
Machida started cross training Muay-Thai long after he was winning mma fights with karate.   

Karate is superior to Muay-Thai training-wise and technique-wise.

The K-1 champ is a karate fighter.

"There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then."

"Beating the hell out of the Muay-Thai guys since 1963."

Thats a BOLD statement...one I disagree with.  Go back and watch UFC 1-3 and ALL the Karate fighters got FUCKED UP!

[MB_722]

Buakaw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8v9UKw-BUk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBExHg5A-Bw
(M&M sucks)

I'll always love standup and muay thai.

One thing that I would like to happen is that muay thai/kickboxing would become bigger in north america.

[nuyork143]

Kickboxing was pretty big back in the 80's and early 90's.  Not sure what happened to it though.  I love me some Muay Thai!

[americanbulldog]

Man I bet Anderson Silva is glad he got himself a TKD blackbelt, he surely put his TKD skills on display against Franklin.  (For the sarcasm deficit detecting people, this is levity)  I bet he surely trains a lot of TKD today, about as much as Bas, GSP, Chuck train karate.  (None, again for the ddt people)  How many karate instructors at major MMA schools/academy/fight teams again?  0!

[realkarateblackbelt]

Thats a BOLD statement...one I disagree with.  Go back and watch UFC 1-3 and ALL the Karate fighters got FUCKED UP!

No they didn't. That's absolutely wrong. Why do you people comment on things you don't know about.
You already said in another thread you started watching MMA way after UFC 1.  

200 pound Kempo Karate practitioner Keith Hackney beating 600 pound Sumo wrestler IN UFC 1 !!!!

Do you think Keith would have won this match if he only practiced Brasilian Jiu Jitsu instead of Kempo? Hahaha. I'd like to see him put an armlock or a rear-naked choke on this guy lmao. They should have thrown Gracie in there with him. But oh yes, I forgot...
The Gracies' ran UFC 1-3? to promote their style. Brutal corruption.

Also in UFC 1 (or 2?), Gerard Gordeau, a Kyokushin and Savate fighter, beats a 400 pound guy bare-knuckle.

Proof again that karate is as effective as Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu or better in overcoming larger opponents.

Karate represented big time in the early UFCs, and it continues to represent today in the UFC.
GSP considers himself a karate fighter primarily, Chuck's background is primarily in Kempo, and Bas Rutten has an extensive Karate background. What you don't see today, now that the Gracies are out of the background as far as running things, is dominance by BJJ. The dominant fighters today are strikers that learn how to avoid going to the ground, and wrestlers. It's been that way since Ken Shamrock sent Gracie into retirement.

Of course Bulldog will chime in and say, "well Randy does BJJ" but it's not his forte. Just like Muay-Thai is not the basis of GSP's style even though he trains in it. Bulldog thinks that as soon as someone does BJJ or MT, even if it's for a month they suddenly become super-powered fighters even though it's a small part of their overall training. He has a hard-on for MT, even though the facts show it to be not as tough or comprehensive as karate. And wrestler Matt Hughes made BJJ expert Gracie look like an ameteur. Where are all the BJJ champs today?

Also, even in Thailand, top Thai-boxers, (just like Karate guys in K-1) cross train in boxing because MT hands aren't sufficient to compete at that level.

[nuyork143]

Man I bet Anderson Silva is glad he got himself a TKD blackbelt, he surely put his TKD skills on display against Franklin.  (For the sarcasm deficit detecting people, this is levity)  I bet he surely trains a lot of TKD today, about as much as Bas, GSP, Chuck train karate.  (None, again for the ddt people)  How many karate instructors at major MMA schools/academy/fight teams again?  0!

As much as I hate to agree with you, I do!

[realkarateblackbelt]

"There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then."

"Beating the hell out of the Muay-Thai guys since 1963."

[nuyork143]

No they didn't. That's absolutely wrong. Why do you people comment on things you don't know about.
You already said in another thread you started watching MMA way after UFC 1.  

200 pound Kempo Karate practitioner Keith Hackney beating 600 pound Sumo wrestler IN UFC 1 !!!!

Do you think Keith would have won this match if he only practiced Brasilian Jiu Jitsu instead of Kempo? Hahaha. I'd like to see him put an armlock or a rear-naked choke on this guy lmao. They should have thrown Gracie in there with him. But oh yes, I forgot...
The Gracies' ran UFC 1-3? to promote their style. Brutal corruption.

Also in UFC 1 (or 2?), Gerard Gordeau, a Kyokushin and Savate fighter, beats a 400 pound guy bare-knuckle.

Proof again that karate is as effective as Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu or better in overcoming larger opponents.

Karate represented big time in the early UFCs, and it continues to represent today in the UFC.
GSP considers himself a karate fighter primarily, Chuck's background is primarily in Kempo, and Bas Rutten has an extensive Karate background. What you don't see today, now that the Gracies are out of the background as far as running things, is dominance by BJJ. The dominant fighters today are strikers that learn how to avoid going to the ground, and wrestlers. It's been that way since Ken Shamrock sent Gracie into retirement.

Of course Bulldog will chime in and say, "well Randy does BJJ" but it's not his forte. Just like Muay-Thai is not the basis of GSP's style even though he trains in it. Bulldog thinks that as soon as someone does BJJ or MT, even if it's for a month they suddenly become super-powered fighters even though it's a small part of their overall training. He has a hard-on for MT, even though the facts show it to be not as tough or comprehensive as karate. And wrestler Matt Hughes made BJJ expert Gracie look like an ameteur. Where are all the BJJ champs today?

Also, even in Thailand, top Thai-boxers, (just like Karate guys in K-1) cross train in boxing because MT hands aren't sufficient to compete at that level.

Just because I didnt start watching UFC at UFC 1 doesnt mean I havent seen it genius.

Second, Keith Hackney and Emanuel Yarborough (600lb Sumo) was in UFC 3.

Third, I do agree with the corruption of MMA back in the day, Its a well know fact that many fights were fixed.

Fourth, Royce beat many larger opponents than him ( Art Jimmerson, Gerrard Gordeau, Ichihara, Smith, Kimo) so thats not a valid argument.

Lastly, Just because Chuck and GSP came up in Karate it doesnt mean that they are Karate fighters.  They are both primarily strikers, but in no way are they "karate" fighters.

Dude its MMA, you have to have a well rounded game to even step in the cage anymore, why do you keep arguing that Karate if the best technique?  Chill!

[nuyork143]

An the Shamrock Gracie fight was a DRAW after like a half hour or some shit.  How is that even decisive?  C'mon now.  And Shamrock isnt a Karate fighter, he started out as a shootfighter.