Author Topic: The Real Deal on IFBB Judging (Read 10107 times)

lonewolf · « **on:** October 23, 2007, 01:22:51 PM »

I decided to start this thread because there is so much misconception about what goes on at the judges table,
how decisions are made and what goes on behind the scenes. I was an IFBB judge for 25 years. I sat at more judging tables for more years than any other judge, exclusive of Jim Manion. I am not here to cast dispersions
or glorify myself. I have no business affiliation with any magazine and am not employed in any capacity by any supplement company. I do have a vast personal knowledge of many events which have taken place over the years. Please ask me any questions you may have concerning judging, contest results and placings of contestants.
I will be as forthright as possible and promise to answer in an honest and open manner. I have made many wonderful friends over the years and met just as many not so wonderful people . Fire away.

Laura Lee · « **Reply #1 on:** October 23, 2007, 01:30:08 PM »

Quote from: lonewolf on October 23, 2007, 01:22:51 PM

I decided to start this thread because there is so much misconception about what goes on at the judges table,
how decisions are made and what goes on behind the scenes. I was an IFBB judge for 25 years. I sat at more judging tables for more years than any other judge, exclusive of Jim Manion. I am not here to cast dispersions
or glorify myself. I have no business affiliation with any magazine and am not employed in any capacity by any supplement company. I do have a vast personal knowledge of many events which have taken place over the years. Please ask me any questions you may have concerning judging, contest results and placings of contestants.
I will be as forthright as possible and promise to answer in an honest and open manner. I have made many wonderful friends over the years and met just as many not so wonderful people . Fire away.

Ok, why do the judges change what they are looking for with each contest?

How the hell can we competitors be consistant and work on our development when they keep changing their minds about what they want to see on stage on the day of contest?

Thank you

lonewolf · « **Reply #2 on:** October 23, 2007, 01:34:00 PM »

I can hosnestly say that there were no shows fixed during the time I was judging. There wre some lousy decisions though

McFarland · « **Reply #3 on:** October 23, 2007, 01:37:10 PM »

OK, let's cut right to the chase. This from one of lonewolf's previous postings here:

Quote from: lonewolf on March 04, 2007, 05:24:12 AM

I have been around bodybuilding long enough to know that while contests are not fixed per se, there is a situation
that should be noted. During a competition one or two judges will make the majority of the call outs. These two people are usually the head judge and the judge most closely seated to him. They make their call outs in the order that they perceveive the order of finish should be in that particular round. This places a strong influence on the rest of the judging panel, so that their placings reflect the results of the calls made by the head judge. While this is not fixing it comes awfully close................... The Wolf

Wolfie, how is it determined who the head and secondary judges will be in each show?

Danny · « **Reply #4 on:** October 23, 2007, 01:39:27 PM »

The one question that does not seem to have an answer is WHY SOME OF THE TOP COMPETITIORS ARE NOT DIRECTLY COMPARED?? (recent example Wolf vs Cutler) It is obvious that there is no need not compare Jocelyn Pelettier with Cutler or Victor but not giving a chance to somebody like Wolf ....things that make you go hhhhmmmm.,..

ps. ACCOUNTABILITY would be another issue, people would look at things differently if there would be a NAME behind that "lonewolf" moniker.

lonewolf · « **Reply #5 on:** October 23, 2007, 01:42:49 PM »

Quote from: corinth on October 23, 2007, 01:34:37 PM

how could Jay possibly have been in first place after friday's prejuding when he looked so bad?

I was not at this years Mr Olympia since I am no longer judging for the IFBB, so I cannot comment on this.

Laura Lee · « **Reply #6 on:** October 23, 2007, 01:46:03 PM »

Where's my answer?

lonewolf · « **Reply #7 on:** October 23, 2007, 01:49:24 PM »

Quote from: McFarland on October 23, 2007, 01:37:10 PM

OK, let's cut right to the chase. This from one of lonewolf's previous postings here:

Wolfie, how is it determined who the head and secondary judges will be in each show?

The head judge is usually selected by the director of judges . Each judge is then given a number so he or she has an assigned position on the panel.

lonewolf · « **Reply #8 on:** October 23, 2007, 01:55:06 PM »

Quote from: Laura Lee on October 23, 2007, 01:30:08 PM

Ok, why do the judges change what they are looking for with each contest? How the hell can we competitors be consistant and work on our development when they keep changing their minds about what they want to see on stage on the day of contest?

Thank you

You may not believe this ,but there is a consistency what judges look for. The first of which is condition. Many times a competitor feels he or she is in the best condition of their life,bear in mind that condition is comparative

McFarland · « **Reply #9 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:00:44 PM »

Quote from: lonewolf on October 23, 2007, 01:49:24 PM

The head judge is usually selected by the director of judges . Each judge is then given a number so he or she has an assigned position on the panel.

Who is the "director of judges?"

lonewolf · « **Reply #10 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:04:07 PM »

Quote from: Danny on October 23, 2007, 01:39:27 PM

The one question that does not seem to have an answer is WHY SOME OF THE TOP COMPETITIORS ARE NOT DIRECTLY COMPARED?? (recent example Wolf vs Cutler) It is obvious that there is no need not compare Jocelyn Pelettier with Cutler or Victor but not giving a chance to somebody like Wolf ....things that make you go hhhhmmmm.,..

ps. ACCOUNTABILITY would be another issue, people would look at things differently if there would be a NAME behind that "lonewolf" moniker.

Many times the panel has made up their minds as to who the top two or three are in a particular round,so competitors may not be called again. As for who I am ,my name is John Calascione and have nothing to hide.

lonewolf · « **Reply #11 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:07:13 PM »

Quote from: McFarland on October 23, 2007, 02:00:44 PM

Who is the "director of judges?"

Usually it's Jim Manion, in his absence Jm Rockell. Iam very proud to have known both of them

McFarland · « **Reply #12 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:13:20 PM »

Quote from: lonewolf on October 23, 2007, 02:07:13 PM

Usually it's Jim Manion, in his absence Jm Rockell. Iam very proud to have known both of them

So is Jim Manion more or less the man ultimately responsible for the current IFBB ideal?

Danny · « **Reply #13 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:17:07 PM »

Quote from: lonewolf on October 23, 2007, 02:04:07 PM

Many times the panel has made up their minds as to who the top two or three are in a particular round,so competitors may not be called again. As for who I am ,my name is John Calascione and have nothing to hide.

Honest answer, thank you. D

emn1964 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:18:44 PM »

What do you think of judges banging competitors that they will then judge. Even if the judge is married and the competitor is dating someone also in the business.

Danny · « **Reply #15 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:20:38 PM »

Quote from: lonewolf on October 23, 2007, 01:55:06 PM

You may not believe this ,but there is a consistency what judges look for. The first of which is condition. Many times a competitor feels he or she is in the best condition of their life,bear in mind that condition is comparative

Personally I think that's a mistake, overall balance and symmetry should be a first, seeing guys like Kamali beat Wolf....that was a fiasco,to mention just one of the cases.....or Paco Bautista beating ...anybody as a matter of fact solely based on the fact he was very well conditioned ,and I have a feeling I am not speaking only fopr myself.

BayGBM · « **Reply #16 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:22:48 PM »

lonewolf: How did Bob Chick get 1st in this contest while Rusty Jeffers came in 8th? Why weren’t they called out together?

2006 Masters Pro World - IFBB
1    Bob Cicherillo
2    Johnny Stewart
3    Pavol Jablonicky
4    Claude Groulx
5    Stan McCrary
6    Nathan Wonsley
7    John Simmons
8    Rusty Jeffers
9    Joseph Palumbo
10    Alberto Bistocchi
11    Daryl Stafford

lonewolf · « **Reply #17 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:23:27 PM »

Quote from: McFarland on October 23, 2007, 02:13:20 PM

So is Jim Manion more or less the man ultimately responsible for the current IFBB ideal?

I don't know if I want to place this on Jim entirely but there is a concensus of Judges who decide what the standards may be via the results of a competition. So it's not one person. I must say that the ideal today is not my is not my idea of bodybuilding as it should be. Aesthetics have been greatly over looked the past several years.

i

lonewolf · « **Reply #18 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:28:59 PM »

Quote from: Danny on October 23, 2007, 02:20:38 PM

Personally I think that's a mistake, overall balance and symmetry should be a first, seeing guys like Kamali beat Wolf....that was a fiasco,to mention just one of the cases.....or Paco Bautista beating ...anybody as a matter of fact solely based on the fact he was very well conditioned ,and I have a feeling I am not speaking only fopr myself.

I didn't mean to imply that condition should take precedence over other factors . Of course balance and symmetry are just as important, but if you're not in great condition it's going to hurt you a bit.

Hedgehog · « **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:30:55 PM »

lonewolf,

using your experience from contests, how would you explain the events that lead to Cutler winning and Wolf placing in 5th?

McFarland · « **Reply #20 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:33:20 PM »

How did you come to be an IFBB judge?

lonewolf · « **Reply #21 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:36:23 PM »

Quote from: Hedgehog on October 23, 2007, 02:30:55 PM

lonewolf,

using your experience from contests, how would you explain the events that lead to Cutler winning and Wolf placing in 5th?

I honestly can't answer that since I wasn't there

lonewolf · « **Reply #22 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:41:54 PM »

Quote from: McFarland on October 23, 2007, 02:33:20 PM

How did you come to be an IFBB judge?

I was an amateur competitor during the 1970s. I went into the health food business at that time and began judging NPC shows during that time period. I built a solid reputation on that and was asked to fill in for the1980 NOC
when one of the other pro judges couldn't make it. my scores were absolutely accurate and became a pro judge from that point on. I was very fortunate

emn1964 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:43:38 PM »

1. Do you judge solely on the quality of the physique or do you give a competitor credit for "paying their dues?"

2. At what point do you take off points for gyno. Seems alot of amateur competitors in the Cali contest were suffering from it big time but weren't marked down significantly.

McFarland · « **Reply #24 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:46:10 PM »

Is there opportunity as an IFBB judge to benefit monetarily from placings?