240

[Hugo Chavez]

Tinfoil hats are in fashion I see.

What's the best brand of tinfoil hat? I wanna get a designer one.

why, do you feel crazy for seeing something you don't understand and asking what it is?  Odd, maybe you are crazy, that sounds strange to me.  I would think it natural to question oddities.

[Nordic Superman]

why, do you feel crazy for seeing something you don't understand and asking what it is?  Odd, maybe you are crazy, that sounds strange to me.  I would think it natural to question oddities.

Personally I don't think these contrails you obsess over are un-natural.

But seriously, I'm shopping for a tinfoil hat, what brand do you go with?

[OzmO]

I'm sure if the contrails were Islamic somehow, Nordic would have many questions while he wears his hat....


 

[Hugo Chavez]

Air space changes all the time.  They often have to change it because of increased traffic, different hubs for airlines etc..  My friend has worked in that field for over 20 years.

I think i watched it.   I can't watch it again right now because my comp's sound card is whacked ever since my comp crashed a month ago, so my sound isn't working now.

Well how much can it change where there are Airforce bases and international airports?  They were there then.  Did they change their patterns so much so that I couldn't see this anywhere up or down the front range?  Why on earth did I watch planes go over all the time with a short disapating contrail and never did I see one of these planes back then leave enlarging trails.

[OzmO]

Well how much can it change where there are Airforce bases and international airports?  They were there then.  Did they change their patterns so much so that I couldn't see this anywhere up or down the front range?  Why on earth did I watch planes go over all the time with a short disapating contrail and never did I see one of these planes back then leave enlarging trails.

Air force bases and public bases do not typically share the same air space, and as air travel increase to and from an airport  or even from an air base (such as when an airbase changes it's primary mission from let's a fighter base to a transport hub) they need to redo the airspace.

As far as size of trails, it could be reasons such as atmospheric conditions, flying at different altitudes (as you can probably surmise, air space is 3 dimensional), or type of jet engine.

[OzmO]

Also, I grew up around bases, and have seen enlarging contrails, in fact i saw one Wednesday when i was 40 miles east of San Francisco.

[Hugo Chavez]

Air force bases and public bases do not typically share the same air space, and as air travel increase to and from an airport  or even from an air base (such as when an airbase changes it's primary mission from let's a fighter base to a transport hub) they need to redo the airspace.

As far as size of trails, it could be reasons such as atmospheric conditions, flying at different altitudes (as you can probably surmise, air space is 3 dimensional), or type of jet engine.

You didn't answer jack shit.  We're going in circles here   save 3 diimensional BS for some kid ok.

[Hugo Chavez]

Also, I grew up around bases, and have seen enlarging contrails, in fact i saw one Wednesday when i was 40 miles east of San Francisco.

Did you see them routinely form these whacked out patterns back in the day?  They're emerging all over the place now.  People are noticing not just because they suddenly got the notion to look up recently.  They notice because it's a big change.  In that video you didn't watch, it's reported the German military admits to intentionally forming some of these expanding trails.  So at least you can't say it's nothing everywhere and somehow I think it's less of a shock that we might be doing something similar.  There's a point where you take debunking to far.  At the point where you imagine any possible number of reasons.  You can what if any subject to death.  If this were a simple matter of changing engines or fuel or altitude, they would have pointed this simplicity out by now with facts.  The only facts we have in this is that before it was not so, now it is so.  Oh and the German mil confession.

[Purple Aki]

why, do you feel crazy for seeing something you don't understand and asking what it is?  Odd, maybe you are crazy, that sounds strange to me.  I would think it natural to question oddities.

Nordic's lack of respect for your mod status is sickening, Berserker!

[OzmO]

You didn't answer jack shit.  We're going in circles here   save 3 diimensional BS for some kid ok.

What the FUCK are you talking about?

Where you out every single day, all day long as a kid logging down every visible contrail?  Or are you making speculative assumptions based on incomplete information and lack of knowledge?  And, when someone provides an answer, are you using that lack of knowledge to as a basis for challenging that answer?

Air space is 3 dimensional, private planes, like single engines Cessnas, can't fly above 18k, cannot fly in certain areas around airports, however, Passenger can fly above those same planes.   Same with Military airspace.   

[OzmO]

Did you see them routinely form these whacked out patterns back in the day?  They're emerging all over the place now.  People are noticing not just because they suddenly got the notion to look up recently.  They notice because it's a big change.  In that video you didn't watch, it's reported the German military admits to intentionally forming some of these expanding trails.  So at least you can't say it's nothing everywhere and somehow I think it's less of a shock that we might be doing something similar.  There's a point where you take debunking to far.  At the point where you imagine any possible number of reasons.  You can what if any subject to death.  If this were a simple matter of changing engines or fuel or altitude, they would have pointed this simplicity out by now with facts.  The only facts we have in this is that before it was not so, now it is so.  Oh and the German mil confession.

There's a point where i take debunking too far?  (If you remember right i reserved judgment until i talked to my friend about this)

This is from someone who has no clue or knowledge of Air space management.

This from someone who finds some obscure video on the youtube, who's credibility is surely worth questioning as anyone with final cut studio, (which i own) can  voice-over clips and make it sound like anything they want AND convince the paranoid few that maybe the population of Colorado springs is getting secretly gassed.

Now how fucking stupid does that sound?

Hey did you know your water supply is vulnerable too?

How about your produce?

How about hidden messages in video games?

How about hidden messages in bill boards?

How about secret tunnels deep in Cheyenne mountain that even Norad doesn't know about?

How about sit coms programing us to be neo-cons?

Berserker at some point you need to apply some common sense especially when you get a legitimate answer.


Whacked out patterns?


It's an airspace intersection, do you even know what that means?

[OzmO]

an excuse me, if i don't take stock in these videos you and others like to post up.

Ever since that one you had me watch about JFK, just 10 minutes into i started checking out some of it's assertions and saw how they twisted and spun it and was leaving out important facts and manipulating the viewer to think certain things COMBINED with understanding now just how easy it is to put together clips and voice over video, i don't take too much stock in Youtube vids.

And you should do the same.  Don't be afraid to look at actual explanations outside of paranoid view points.

[Hugo Chavez]

an excuse me, if i don't take stock in these videos you and others like to post up.

Ever since that one you had me watch about JFK, just 10 minutes into i started checking out some of it's assertions and saw how they twisted and spun it and was leaving out important facts and manipulating the viewer to think certain things COMBINED with understanding now just how easy it is to put together clips and voice over video, i don't take too much stock in Youtube vids.

And you should do the same.  Don't be afraid to look at actual explanations outside of paranoid view points.

It's a news clip with a report, not a conspiracy video...

[Hugo Chavez]

It's a news clip with a report, not a conspiracy video...

and the JFK thing, I think I said when I posted it that I had issues with several things but I thought that it contained important information.  If I picked apart everything that had some bad info I wouldn't be watching much of anything these days.  I stick to the idea that you watch and read as much as you can on a subject from various sources and that gives one the best chance at finding a truth.  This is how I've actually ended up debunking some popular conspiracy theories.  I listened to everyone until a clear picture starts to build.  The simple fact is that video is filled with facts that I haven't found anywhere else.  The news reports for the day, the flight paths the alt from moment to moment, the plane switch in the off position, there are countless bits in there that are valid for anyone wanting to look into it.  That video DOES contain important information.

[Hugo Chavez]

What the FUCK are you talking about?

Where you out every single day, all day long as a kid logging down every visible contrail?  Or are you making speculative assumptions based on incomplete information and lack of knowledge?  And, when someone provides an answer, are you using that lack of knowledge to as a basis for challenging that answer?

Air space is 3 dimensional, private planes, like single engines Cessnas, can't fly above 18k, cannot fly in certain areas around airports, however, Passenger can fly above those same planes.   Same with Military airspace.   

When I was young I watched the skys quite a bit.  Had a pretty big passion for air and space so yes I'm not totally talking out my ass OZMO... I have some valid observations from a region I'm familar with since the 70's...

[Hugo Chavez]

There's a point where i take debunking too far?  (If you remember right i reserved judgment until i talked to my friend about this)

This is from someone who has no clue or knowledge of Air space management.

This from someone who finds some obscure video on the youtube, who's credibility is surely worth questioning as anyone with final cut studio, (which i own) can  voice-over clips and make it sound like anything they want AND convince the paranoid few that maybe the population of Colorado springs is getting secretly gassed.

Now how fucking stupid does that sound?

Hey did you know your water supply is vulnerable too?

How about your produce?

How about hidden messages in video games?

How about hidden messages in bill boards?

How about secret tunnels deep in Cheyenne mountain that even Norad doesn't know about?

How about sit coms programing us to be neo-cons?

Berserker at some point you need to apply some common sense especially when you get a legitimate answer.


Whacked out patterns?


It's an airspace intersection, do you even know what that means?

What the fuck are YOU talking about... I didn't say jack fucking shit about being positive about what this is in any way.  The fact is I don't fucking know what it is.  I know I think it's worth investigation and worth listening to the possible causes  

[OzmO]

It's a news clip with a report, not a conspiracy video...

ok, so?  This video is proof the government is secretly gassing Colorado Springs and that outweighs the fact Co. Springs sits under an airspace intersection?

When I was young I watched the skys quite a bit.  Had a pretty big passion for air and space so yes I'm not totally talking out my ass OZMO... I have some valid observations from a region I'm familar with since the 70's...

And this takes credibility over the process of scientific study and Air space management knowledge?   not to mention atmospheric conditions....ok....

and the JFK thing, I think I said when I posted it that I had issues with several things but I thought that it contained important information.  If I picked apart everything that had some bad info I wouldn't be watching much of anything these days.  I stick to the idea that you watch and read as much as you can on a subject from various sources and that gives one the best chance at finding a truth.  This is how I've actually ended up debunking some popular conspiracy theories.  I listened to everyone until a clear picture starts to build.  The simple fact is that video is filled with facts that I haven't found anywhere else.  The news reports for the day, the flight paths the alt from moment to moment, the plane switch in the off position, there are countless bits in there that are valid for anyone wanting to look into it.  That video DOES contain important information.

I bet in the end it doesn't.  I bet most of it comes down to speculation and not reveling related facts.  But since you suffered through that piece of mostly fictitious crap I'll have to take your word for it, which i consider far more credible.

What the fuck are YOU talking about... I didn't say jack fucking shit about being positive about what this is in any way.  The fact is I don't fucking know what it is.  I know I think it's worth investigation and worth listening to the possible causes  

True, you haven't said it directly, but you are implying something foul is going on and now even in the presence of a reasonable explanation.

[Hugo Chavez]

ok, so?  This video is proof the government is secretly gassing Colorado Springs and that outweighs the fact Co. Springs sits under an airspace intersection?

Where the hell did I say that   The news report that you don't want to watch says nothing about gasing anyone

And this takes credibility over the process of scientific study and Air space management knowledge?   not to mention atmospheric conditions....ok....

I bet in the end it doesn't.  I bet most of it comes down to speculation and not reveling related facts.  But since you suffered through that piece of mostly fictitious crap I'll have to take your word for it, which i consider far more credible.

True, you haven't said it directly, but you are implying something foul is going on and now even in the presence of a reasonable explanation.

What the fuck ever you want Ozmo

[OzmO]

Where the hell did I say that   The news report that you don't want to watch says nothing about gasing anyone ::)What the fuck ever you want Ozmo

So you are not implying anything foul is going on?

  What I do have is memory that this shit didn't use to happen and it results in me asking WTF? 

This, did, not, use, to, happen...

Things that make you go WTF...

Followed by:

Do you have any concept of what a contrail looked like before the 90's?  It has nothing to do with more planes being in the air, how the fuck would that effect a plane's contrail?  It just means more planes are in the air Roll Eyes  No shit huh Roll Eyes  Why would a single plane at times go back and forth over an area crisscrossing in a grid, taking the long way home? Roll Eyes  It's not uncommon for there to be questions asked when things change in an odd way... Fucking no shut huh..

and...

The fact is simple, contrails NEVER, EVER use to bloom into larger trails, now they do.  Period...  It's not weird or tin-foil-hat to ask why.

and...

So it will go from normal to solid, then have a couple skips where it seemed normal and go back to solid at the start and then continue in a long strip of solid trail.  I can't help but notice that this same phenomena happens when legitimate spraying is done.  You will often see a skip as the spraying starts.  Just observations, I have no definite theory other than what I've observed forces me to ask questions. At times they also take on a brownish look which is really visible when it's against a normal cloud in the background

So you are not implying anything or are you?  which is it? 

Or is it that you won't take a "normal" explanation, only something that smells of conspiracy?

Let's look at more you to say on the matter....

Here's another one I took...  You can two planes... Although the second plane looked very odd, ufo lol?  I'm sure it's a plane... The contrail is very light and leaves little trail, while the other went on to spred out very large.

sorry, have to comment on this one, in referring to the pic you posted with it.  So from the pic or even while it's happening you can tell the relative altitude of each plane?  And you can also tell the atmospheric conditions at both altitudes?  With out being there?  And without instruments?   Cool.

Or you think that atmospheric conditions at different altitudes don't make a difference in how contrails form and react after they form?  yeah right.

another great example of your human altitude measuring device.  Is it genetic?

or how two jets flying at approximately the same alt would have one leaving a normal contrail and one leaving a solid contrail which I have also seen happen many times

I would also note that I lived in this area for several years in the 70's and 80's  Lived near the air force base and loved to watch planes.  Everytime one went over, I watched.  They never,... never did this then.  It was not until the late 90's that that this started and even then, not nearly as frequently as it happens now.  I can go out and see it happen quite often now.

Do you think air travel has increased or decreased from the 70's and 80's to now?

Do you think the way they traffic planes might have changed due to advances in technology?

Perhaps they can traffic more planes in a given space becuase they can more safely keep them apart?

Could this be why there are more planes in the "airspace intersection" versus in the 70's and 80's:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/enroute/rvsm/


Sorry Berserker, nothing unusual that can't be explained here.


Maybe in the end i did need to save the "3-dimensional BS" for you and not some kid.

[candidizzle]

you know... I've never had any interest in all in this stuff.

Even when I was all about politics 24/7, this stuff... well, history is written by the winners.  And all that stuff is ancient history, hundreds of years old.  Much like in the year 2200, our descendents will honestly believe Saddam had WMD.  They'll remember the Bush admin very favorably.  Cheney will be remembered as a tough warrior.  Bush will be the gentle diplomat who acted only when provoked.  Historical scrubbing.  It'll happen.  So any argument about what happened 300 years ago is pretty pointless and an exercise in futility, IMO. 

no. books like th peoples history of the united states are aroun now, so im sure in the future it will be much more illuminated than what you think.