ARM GAINS

[The Squadfather]

for the guy who said coleman doesnt work arms....
on cor he does 16 sets for tris alone
so yeah he does train arms.. hard too

yeah on COR he does one arm overhead db extensions, machine dips and pushdowns, on Unbelievable he does heavy two arm overhead db extensions, lying EZ bar extensions and two arm kickbacks all after chest.

[mesmorph78]

yes.. i dont know why people are under the misconception that he doesnt train them...
i find it better to go by what you see on dvd than the stuff wrote in magazines... which is all bullshit mostly

[The Squadfather]

yes.. i dont know why people are under the misconception that he doesnt train them...
i find it better to go by what you see on dvd than the stuff wrote in magazines... which is all bullshit mostly

anyone who thinks he doesn't train arms is just stupid, they're just going off what he said on Unbelievable when he said, "i don't really spend a lot of time on biceps because they're already big" but he still does at least 10 sets for them as well.

[Bobby]

anyone who thinks he doesn't train arms is just stupid, they're just going off what he said on Unbelievable when he said, "i don't really spend a lot of time on biceps because they're already big" but he still does at least 10 sets for them as well.

Yes, that was what i was thinking about.

[mesmorph78]

he did
dumbell preacher curls
21's
and hammers.. on coredemption
15 -20 sets... also on bfto

[The Squadfather]

he did
dumbell preacher curls
21's
and hammers.. on coredemption
15 -20 sets... also on bfto

all after heavy back training no less, the man is a freak of nature, on TU he did 800 pound deadlift off the floor for 2, T Bars with 12 plates and 500 pound barbell rows AND THEN biceps, hahahahahahahahaaa, the man is a fuccking machine.

[triple_pickle]

when i first started out i used to warmup the get a heavy weight do y weight6 reps.. and work down
but trust me working the other way is better.. builds up endurance and strength...and sizeso when i get to tose heavy sets no im not tried muscles are pumped and ready to go

totally agree, i am nowhere as strong as meso but when i do close grip benches (after shoulders) i do
135 x 12
225 x 8
275 x 3-4, 2 sets

then i do two more exercises, 2-3 sets each

[DragonRider]

Do you think training this much is unnecessary only, or does it have a negative effect too?

About this 4 reps limit: this happens only on presses for chest and delts. For arms i don't have that problem.
To get past that limitation i have to use so low weights that it's not challenging and i don't feel it in the muscle.

I usually do for chest
first exercise: flat or incline db presses,
1 105s
2 95s
3 90s
4 85s

Not that much weight, but i do them very strict and go deep.

It's not only unnecessary, it is actually counterproductive. Training over an hour taps deeply into your nervous system (epinephrine and norepinephrine levels) and leads to overtraining. The problem with overtraining is, by the time you feel it physically, weeks worth of damage can be done and it could take weeks to recover. You can develop adrenal fatigue which could take months to overcome.

If the weight in your exercise doesn't feel challenging to you, you may be using either the wrong exercise or you aren't doing enough reps. Some people really don't get much from dumbell presses and are better served with barbell presses. When I do a reverse pyramid as you described above, my highest weight may only be six reps, but the last set may be 20 to 25 reps. I don't have any choice as to whether I feel it in the muscle. The muscle is begging me to quit.

Remember this if you don't remember anything else. You grow when you rest and eat. Weightlifting is counterproductive, so you get in the gym, pump the crap out the desired muscle or muscles, then get out so you can begin the recovery process (adaptation and growth).

Write this down on the blackboard 100 times.

Growth occurs outside the gym. More is not better.

[Bobby]

That's like telling a fat man to stop eating. It takes awhile to get it thru his thick skull. I appreciate the effort though, i should calm down.
Today i did chest... and delts and trapps. You're gonna hate this...

1. Flat DB presses 3 sets
2. Incline db presses 4 sets
3. BB presses 2 sets with drop sets, so 1 set is actually 3
4. Cable crossover from above 3 sets with dropsets
5. Cable crossover from below 2 sets with dropsets
6. DB Pullover leaning agains bench superseted with dips 3 sets

that was chest, now delts

1. DB presses 4 sets
2. BB presses 3 sets with 2 dropsets on the last set only
3. DB side laterals 3 sets with dropsets
4. DB rear laterals 3 sets with dropsets
5. BB upright rows 3 sets with dropsets

Trapps

1. DB shrugs 4 sets with dropsets
2. DB shrugs from the front 3 sets with dropsets

 

took about 2h and 10min.

I'm gonna go over to the blackboard now....

[Bobby]

he did
dumbell preacher curls
21's
and hammers.. on coredemption
15 -20 sets... also on bfto

Yeah and then he has the nerve to say he doesn't do much for arms... that is annoying

BTW i did train like you said, going up in weight. I really liked it, it felt better! The 4-5 rep limit i think was caused by doing it like i did before, i never went past 5 reps on warmup weight, then started with the heaviest weight and got 4-5 reps. After that 4-5 reps was maximum.

I'm gonna keep doing it like this going up in weight, it worked great today.

[triple_pickle]

That's like telling a fat man to stop eating. It takes awhile to get it thru his thick skull. I appreciate the effort though, i should calm down.
Today i did chest... and delts and trapps. You're gonna hate this...

1. Flat DB presses 3 sets
2. Incline db presses 4 sets
3. BB presses 2 sets with drop sets, so 1 set is actually 3
4. Cable crossover from above 3 sets with dropsets
5. Cable crossover from below 2 sets with dropsets
6. DB Pullover leaning agains bench superseted with dips 3 sets

that was chest, now delts

1. DB presses 4 sets
2. BB presses 3 sets with 2 dropsets on the last set only
3. DB side laterals 3 sets with dropsets
4. DB rear laterals 3 sets with dropsets
5. BB upright rows 3 sets with dropsets

Trapps

1. DB shrugs 4 sets with dropsets
2. DB shrugs from the front 3 sets with dropsets

took about 2h and 10min.  .....

you could cut the number of sets in half and still enjoy the same gains....

[mesmorph78]

That's like telling a fat man to stop eating. It takes awhile to get it thru his thick skull. I appreciate the effort though, i should calm down.
Today i did chest... and delts and trapps. You're gonna hate this...

1. Flat DB presses 3 sets
2. Incline db presses 4 sets
3. BB presses 2 sets with drop sets, so 1 set is actually 3
4. Cable crossover from above 3 sets with dropsets
5. Cable crossover from below 2 sets with dropsets
6. DB Pullover leaning agains bench superseted with dips 3 sets

that was chest, now delts

1. DB presses 4 sets
2. BB presses 3 sets with 2 dropsets on the last set only
3. DB side laterals 3 sets with dropsets
4. DB rear laterals 3 sets with dropsets
5. BB upright rows 3 sets with dropsets

Trapps

1. DB shrugs 4 sets with dropsets
2. DB shrugs from the front 3 sets with dropsets

 

took about 2h and 10min.

I'm gonna go over to the blackboard now....

too much man....
unless you have substantial chest mass cable crossovers are a waste of time.. better off with flyes..
but if u have a big chest... crossovers are good for shaping it..

[Bobby]

I prefer cables over flyes because the resistance is from the side so there is constant tension. With flies the resistance is from below, gravity, so there is litte tension at the top of the movement.

[slaveboy1980]

It's not only unnecessary, it is actually counterproductive. Training over an hour taps deeply into your nervous system (epinephrine and norepinephrine levels) and leads to overtraining. The problem with overtraining is, by the time you feel it physically, weeks worth of damage can be done and it could take weeks to recover. You can develop adrenal fatigue which could take months to overcome.

overtraining does exist, for sure but the 45min/60min rule is exaggerated, your not gonna overtrain just because you workout 90min.....it also depends on what you do in the gym! if you train to failure every set every workout you can overtrain even if you only workout 30min. the 60min rule is too general because you have to look at how you workout (intensity, # sets etc), what you have eaten before, what you eat after an workout etc. Even if you train very hard im very sceptical than just because you train 90min your will become overtrained.

I also want to point out im an advocate of avoiding training to failure (95% of time time) in order to be able to train a muscle more frequently.

training to failure or not is more important than if you train 60min vs 90min.

im pretty sure that most guys who burn out are training too many sets to failure too often, and are training too many days per week, and in some cases getting too psyched up before lifts. I strongly believe that if you shout and try to get to "pumped" up before every set you do in the gym you will mentally drain yourself.

to summarize, the 60min is silly, and wont have that much practical difference...not compared to all the other factors.

[webcake]

Well since beginning HST, ive now realised how many unnecessary sets i have been doing at one time. I know HST is different than training one bodypart only once a week, but still it certainly makes you realise how often you focus on training to failure, or training just to get a pump. Less is quite often more.

And in regards to overtraining, if you eat a good and clean diet with the appropriate nutrients for your needs, then i wouldnt be too worried if you workouts last for more than an hour. A quick workout is good, but theres no point in rushing and not having adequate rest between sets.

[SirTraps]

45-60 minutes is a good rule of thumb.  I lift heavy, dont rest much between sets and superset on back days. I can definitely see the line where overtraining starts.  I start with 6 sets of heavy shrugs supersetted with 6 sets of heavy barbell curls then go to rows.  I finish up with lat pulldowns and lately cable rows.  Im fried by the end.  I probably expend too much on the shrugs/barbell curls but ive made very good gains and love those exercises. 

[Bobby]

I calmed down today

I only did this for arms

triceps:
CG benchpress 4 sets (2 dropsets after 4th set)
Skullcrusher extensions 3 sets (2 dropsets after 3rd set)
Rope overhead extensions 3 sets (with 1 dropset after each set)
Kickbacks 1 set

Biceps:
BB curls 4 sets (2 dropsets after 4th set)
BB preacher curls 3 sets (with 1 dropset after each set)
Cable dbl bicep curls 3 sets (with 1 dropset after each set)

DB Hammercurl 3 sets (with 1 dropset after each set)

This worked very good! maybe less is more. I train the hell out of all the muscle groups and my chest, delts, back, legs etc all grow alot. Guess that is because they are big muscle groups and can handle all that work, where as biceps and triceps can't and that explaines why they grow so poorly. My triceps are better than my biceps, because it's a bigger muscle group and handles the abuse better...

so with this new knowledge...18 inches here i come

[BigCypriate]

I calmed down today

I only did this for arms

triceps:
CG benchpress 4 sets (2 dropsets after 4th set)
Skullcrusher extensions 3 sets (2 dropsets after 3rd set)
Rope overhead extensions 3 sets (with 1 dropset after each set)
Kickbacks 1 set

Biceps:
BB curls 4 sets (2 dropsets after 4th set)
BB preacher curls 3 sets (with 1 dropset after each set)
Cable dbl bicep curls 3 sets (with 1 dropset after each set)

DB Hammercurl 3 sets (with 1 dropset after each set)

This worked very good! maybe less is more. I train the hell out of all the muscle groups and my chest, delts, back, legs etc all grow alot. Guess that is because they are big muscle groups and can handle all that work, where as biceps and triceps can't and that explaines why they grow so poorly. My triceps are better than my biceps, because it's a bigger muscle group and handles the abuse better...

so with this new knowledge...18 inches here i come

[Bobby]

hahahahahhahahahahahah

great reply

[coltrane]

Meso:

i've been doing 5 days a week,

chest-mon
back-tues
legs-weds
shoulders-thurs
arms-fri

i'm switching it up to friday being tris, and sat being biceps.......

i find it is hard to hit both biceps and triceps thouroughly in one day.....(at least now that i'm 29 and getting tired of this shit)

[mesmorph78]

Meso:

i've been doing 5 days a week,

chest-mon
back-tues
legs-weds
shoulders-thurs
arms-fri

i'm switching it up to friday being tris, and sat being biceps.......

i find it is hard to hit both biceps and triceps thouroughly in one day.....(at least now that i'm 29 and getting tired of this shit)

wsup coltrane...
try this split
chest - monday
back tuesday (tris get rested)
delts wednesday (bis get rested)
legs thursday (arms get rested)
arms friday

on arm day i do one trie excercise .. then one bi movement
i find if i do them both at the same time it keeps things more interesting... i hate working bi's so mixing them with tris.. keeps it fresh...
try that split for a month

[coltrane]

looks good Mes, but i wanna split up arms nowadays...i too do the 2.5 hour long arm workout, but it's getting to the point of not being able to hit each as well as i want, so i'm giving each there own day.







Go BILLS

[mesmorph78]

naw... 2.5 hrs too long...
i used to work arms on seperate days...
but... ima tell u like this man...
my best gains came from doin em together...
u train heavy.. in general

[Detroit Muscle]

I agree. That is good size for someone under 200. My arms are about the same and I weigh 225.

I also agree with your principles. Any training that lasts over an hour means either your intensity isn't high enough or you are one of those guys who talks to his buddies or on the phone more than he works out.
Additionally, after an hour of training your body is dipping too far into your nervous system for energy and overtraining starts to occur.

I concur with the training principle, but arm measurements, imo, need an asterik if your bicep insertion makes for that gap which gives a lot of dudes a major high peak (Ronnie and Ruhl have decent-sized gaps).  It seems more impressive to have 19"+ guns if you have a long insertion providing for a fatter, but less peaking bicep (e.g., Dex and Vic) than it is to have a big ass gap and a peanut-esque bicep.  If you're sub-200lbs with 19" arms, I assume you either have the gap/high peak combo or are 3-7% bodyfat and muscular as shit.  Just my opinion...

[John O]

I think just about everybody over worked arms at one time or another LOL I did.
But there such a small muscle group they don't need much work.. (Volume wise) Besides remember they get a pretty good pump with you do back work & bench work.

Nice size by the way!!