Manion Says Disloyalty to the IFBB is Like Cheating on your Wife!!!

[Tre]

I admire Manion and his tough stance!

Most of us do!  He's a good man.

[Busted]

Actually, you're wrong...by signing the "contract" which allows you to be a IFBB pro, you agree to oblige the rules set forth...the main one, that you cannot compete in any other federation.

BTW..."the money" IS in the IFBB.

It also says you cant be convicted of any crimes! Several Pros, Titus and Vic still competed.

IFBB was created to Protect bodybuilders not fuck them

[BEAST 8692]

what if you do everything your wife has requestedand sacrificed everything for her and she goes and sleeps with the guy that treated her like shit and sacrificed nothing?

ie jay winning the olympia over wolf.

[Busted]

We have had this analogy many times over. If you belong to one fraternity in college, and you go to another one, and while you are there, talk crap about your old fraternity, and then later on you decide you want to come back, you will find it very hard to do so.

As for the IFBB, each individual decides if he wants to compete there or not. As long as they are in good standing with the organization. They choose to compete, they don't have to.

This isnt a Frat, its a Org (supposed to be non-profit) that was created to protect bodybuilders.  The same Org is fucking them over time and time again. And the powers that be keep making ignorant ass decisions and when someone steps up and calls them on it they get flamed.  Its complete Bullshit.

[Busted]

One has nothing to do with the other.....

It is what it is...no one is forced into it, and by and large, there have been many who have benefitted greatly and been able to make a living from pro BB...all by way of being a member in the IFBB. In case you havent noticed...there have been many other federations around for many years, none of which have ever offered anything remotely close to the opportunities the IFBB has.

I do all I can to make it more profitable and fair to the athletes....while I am pleased with the progress that's been made, I'm still working on behalf of the athletes to make it even better.

 "nobody is forced into it"  WTF else are they gonna do?  Not like there is any other legit options.  Either Compete as a IFBB BBr or retire?? Thats fuckin bullshit... Guys like Ronnie, Jay etc... they survive off of Supplement contracts, the prize money they make off the shows doesnt even cover their taxes.

What has the IFBB offered??? Weider and Arnold's show would keep going on if the IFBB closed doors tomorrow. Not like the IFBB created those shows, outside promoters wanna do a show, and they HAVE to go to the IFBB to get athletes to compete, IFBB gets 5,000 for a sanction fee for Male BB, Female BB, Fitness, Figure, 20k in total and then the show goes on.  Its like a middle man collecting money and making the rules... Bullshit

So manion OWNS the NPC and hes speaking on behalf of the IFBB. Thats like David Stern owning the NCAA College basketball and still being head of the NBA.  Nobody else thinks this is a complete Fuck job?

[Triple-H_2005]

For a contract to be valid, there must be consideration (i.e. money)... it's an essential element of a contract.  "The possibility that you might make some money" doesn't count.  In a real employment contract, the employee is being paid, thus consideration is present.

If Manion wants to start paying these guys a salary, no one in the world would have a problem with an exclusivity clause.  But to demand exclusivity without payment is tantamount to slavery.

Not true.  I work in a comission-only position and there's a non-compete standard in my industry.

Still, it's not like cheating on your wife unless she stays at home, spends most of your money and never gives you any ass.  In that case, I'm looking elsewhere....

[Ron]

What I disagree with is this - why would they tell him they'll suspend him for one year, but he has to quit the PDI, but *THEN* tell him it's a lifetime ban?

Where did you read it is a lifetime ban? All I read is that he wasnt reinstated. There are a lot of other factors involved, but it has been rehashed on it.

Let's also add that the wife was a nutjob that took 99% of your paycheck....and made you drive the K-car while she drove around town in the BMW that she paid for out of your wages..

So don't stay with her. Simple as that.

Ron, are reminiscing about the "Good Ole Fraternity Days"

Ah, not really. But still, if you were in a group, and found out that an ex-member said all sorts of crap about you, and then wanted to come back, what would you do?

This isnt a Frat, its a Org (supposed to be non-profit) that was created to protect bodybuilders.

Ok. I thought it was meant to have a place where bodybuilder who choose to compete there can, and with that priveledge, get prize money, recognition, which in turns leads to magazine shoots, guest posings, supplement contracts, and other types of contracts. Things don't just happen, you need to push to get these contracts. 

[Matt C]

Listening to the Manion interview on Pro Bodybuilding Radio.  When they asked him about why loyalty is so important to the IFBB, Manion said that its like if you leave your wife for a year, talk trash about her, and go sleep with other women.  Can you really expect your wife to take you back a year later if you want to come home?    This dont sound too good for Priest.

Sounds reasonable to me.  You can't expect to just talk shit about every business and be welcomed back again.  It's unprofessional, plain and simple.

[stormshadow]

One has nothing to do with the other.....

It is what it is...no one is forced into it, and by and large, there have been many who have benefitted greatly and been able to make a living from pro BB...all by way of being a member in the IFBB. In case you havent noticed...there have been many other federations around for many years, none of which have ever offered anything remotely close to the opportunities the IFBB has.

I do all I can to make it more profitable and fair to the athletes....while I am pleased with the progress that's been made, I'm still working on behalf of the athletes to make it even better.

Bob,

Your position is one of massaging the hand that is feeding the bodybuilders.  I know you are trying to do good, but the IFBB is not government, it is not instituted to serve the athletes.  It is a private corporation motivated by profit.

Things will not change until bodybuilders start voting with their careers.  A unity on principles would create much positive change.  However, although bodybuilders may be some of the most disciplined people, they are also some of the most unprincipled.

Drugs
Endorsing Garbage supplements
Gay 4 Pay

[Wiggs]

Chick you're so quick to defend the IFBB all the time and hellbent on getting the members to follow the rules why don't you get the IFBB to follow the rules they make up....They can start by reading the rulebook they made.  If you like I can point out many they don't follow.  We don't ever hear you talking about those.

[G o a t b o y]

BTW...I'm not a "suit".

Yeah....  you're the suits' puppet!

[Chick]

Chick you're so quick to defend the IFBB all the time and hellbent on getting the members to follow the rules why don't you get the IFBB to follow the rules they make up....They can start by reading the rulebook they made.  If you like I can point out many they don't follow.  We don't ever hear you talking about those.

I do...try reading some of the past proposals I've sunmitted.

[Big_Tymer]

Chick you're so quick to defend the IFBB all the time and hellbent on getting the members to follow the rules why don't you get the IFBB to follow the rules they make up....They can start by reading the rulebook they made.  If you like I can point out many they don't follow.  We don't ever hear you talking about those.

word.  Not to mention the IFBB lets certain people break certain rules, but if Lee goes and competes for a rival federation he get suspended for a year 

[G o a t b o y]

word.  Not to mention the IFBB lets certain people break certain rules, but if Lee goes and competes for a rival federation he get suspended for a year 

A year?   Didn't you hear...his year's up, yet they still won't let him compete.   

[Big_Tymer]

A year?   Didn't you hear...his year's up, yet they still won't let him compete.   

yeah, he waited his year then they made him reply for 'reinstatement' which he did, then they rejected.  IFBB is a facist empire of bodybuilding.

[Chick]

word.  Not to mention the IFBB lets certain people break certain rules, but if Lee goes and competes for a rival federation he get suspended for a year 

Lee was treated as everyone else was that crossed to another federation...nothing more, nothing less.

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Except for Goatboy and a few others who actually have working brains, I would say the majority here would be fodder for IFBB antics. We do get what we deserve, afterall. Eg., an appointed stooge as 'athletes' rep. Of course, 'athletes' aren't drug tested.

Chick's argument about prize money is a bit like claiming that you have to buy a lottery ticket to win.  Talk eloquently but do bugger all for the bodybuilders. Who here is proud to be a bodybuilder today?

Lee Priest made his own bed and now he has to live with it.  He did it to make some money from beating people who weren't in his league "PDI".

At least Chick did petition for his reinstatement.  Its better than nothing and quite frankly he was the only person who did do anything for him and Lee gave him the middle finger

Point being...if you think that the IFBB is a dictatorship then go compete somewhere else.  No-one is putting a gun to these people's heads to compete and there are other organization.  Hell, I'm competing in my first NGA event early next year. 

As Shawn Ray once said "Thanks for the memories, little man" is all Lee Priest is going to get for his efforts.  Life will go and has on without him.

[Big_Tymer]

Lee was treated as everyone else was that crossed to another federation...nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, he broke a rule and got punished.  Im not complaining about that, he knew the rules.  But what about all the people who break the rules such as no criminal convictions, gay 4 pay, steroids  etc.  The IFBB knows many people who break each of those rules, yet dont do anything. 

[Ron]

yeah, he waited his year then they made him reply for 'reinstatement' which he did, then they rejected.

During that time, Lee had quite a few chances to come back to the IFBB, which didn't go through.  I videotaped him about his sincerity of him coming back to the IFBB, which he said he did, but then said it wasnt true.  Steve Blechman offered him a deal, and the IFBB was cool with it, for him to come back into the IFBB come September 2007, but Lee didn't agree.  So yes, while he was suspended for a year, there were other factors. Once again, Lee may or may not be reinstated into the IFBB, but it didnt happen at the Olympia meeting. The next meeting, I think is at the Arnold?  

But there were others too, Rodney St. Cloub, I think also Valentine Jabes, one or two others. Lee is the most popular who chose to leave, but certainly not the only one.  If the IFBB acts differently on these guys, then it is a different issue. But for now, all have been treated the same.

Yes, he broke a rule and got punished.  Im not complaining about that, he knew the rules.  But what about all the people who break the rules such as no criminal convictions, gay 4 pay, steroids   etc.  The IFBB knows many people who break each of those rules, yet dont do anything.

 

Yes, let's all be all holy here, and cry for every little rule that has been broken.  Convictions, steroids - whoa. Wow.  If it was up to you, half of Congress would be out of office, half of the NFL, NBA, NHL would be out of players.  Get real. These guys don't have convictions for assault, or a violent crime.

But the ones who chose to compete in another federation while they were still members of the IFBB knew and were warned in advance about it. You do this, you will get that. Simple as that.  If I tell you and warn you in advance that if you choose the left path, you can't come back to the other path, you know in advance. Simple as that.

[Al-Gebra]

For a contract to be valid, there must be consideration (i.e. money)... it's an essential element of a contract. 

"consideration (i.e. money)". . . what did they teach you in the hallowed halls, goatboy? money can be consideration, but . . .


consideration can be many things . . . basically you give up something you have a right to do.  like compete in the PDI.  And they give up something they have a right to do . . . like not letting you compete in their contests.

makes sense that the other contract law guru, "Tre," would agree w you.  

[Tre]

Lee was treated as everyone else was that crossed to another federation...nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Tre]

"consideration (i.e. money)". . . what did they teach you in the hallowed halls, goatboy? money can be consideration, but . . .


consideration can be many things . . . basically you give up something you have a right to do.  like compete in the PDI.  And they give up something they have a right to do . . . like not letting you compete in their contests.

makes sense that the other contract law guru, "Tre," would agree w you.  

Be threatened by a dozen lawsuits and you'd arm yourself with information, too! 

At the end of the day, though, which side of the argument do you feel would have the brighter, more convincing attorneys?

[dearth]

I do...try reading some of the past proposals I've sunmitted.

chick, this is the closest you've come to admitting that IFBB isn't quite perfect.

my hat is off to you.

re: the IFBB metting minutes that you posted,

what is so hard with actually providing a written guidline for womens bodybuilding, that is update,
which outlines what the judges are looking for?

 "the winner of the olympia contest should be the guidline" is a very lame cop out to this legitmate request by Betty Pariso.

[Al-Gebra]

Be threatened by a dozen lawsuits and you'd arm yourself with information, too! 

At the end of the day, though, which side of the argument do you feel would have the brighter, more convincing attorneys?

i haven't read the whole thread, but Lee has no case from what snatches I've heard.

the IFBB didn't make him a promise of reinstatement that he relied on prior to suffering quantifiable damages.

no lawyer worth a damn is going to touch that . . .

someone could argue anti-trust, but come on, this is the ifbb we're talking about . . .

[G o a t b o y]

"consideration (i.e. money)". . . what did they teach you in the hallowed halls, goatboy? money can be consideration, but . . .


consideration can be many things . . . basically you give up something you have a right to do.  like compete in the PDI.  And they give up something they have a right to do . . . like not letting you compete in their contests.

makes sense that the other contract law guru, "Tre," would agree w you.  

I never said I was a lawyer or a "guru", but I think it would be difficult to argue that competing in a contest where you're unlikely to break even can be considered "valuable consideration", as it has little market value.

A case was already decided against the NPC back in the 80's in Federal court prohibiting them from penalizing amateur athletes for competing in other federations (which kills Ron's "fraternety" or "private club" analogy).  It isn't exactly a leap of logic to see how this could be argued in the IFBB, given that these guys are NOT being paid a salary, and most lose money.  It's tough to call unpaid athletes "professionals", especially when they are independant contractors in no one's employ.