Why is insulin so effective in adding muscle mass?

[the Pure Majestic]

oh brother..

That bitch can party!

[thelamefalsehood]

Would it matter the amount of bodyfat and type of body the person has prior to using the slin? Meaning, would slin work much better if lets say you dieted for a few months, utilizing very low carbs getting down to 6-7% bodyfat and trying to keep the bodies natural insulin level low through diet and supplements,i.e. ala, vanadyl, chromium? Then when jumping on the slin the body would supercompensate because its been without this hormone or large amounts of this type of food(carbs) for so long? And maybe using the slin only 2-3 times a week on largest bodyparts worked(legs, back, maybe arms) and using lower doses,3-4iu, at breakfast and post wrokout to ensure the body stays at a heightened response to the slin, as well as following a reduced carb diet on non slin days to keep the body sensitive to the hormone? GH15 has hinted many times to not even waste your time if you are above 10% bodyfat because your body is putting out enough insulin naturally. I think bodyfat levels and your bodies OWN hormone levels are key prior to engaging in a course of insulin.

[BEAST 8692]

oh brother..

is there something mars?

[Van_Bilderass]

You really think your body can release a dose comperable to 10iu?  Go grab a glucometer and youl figure this one out quick. 

Glucometer doesn't measure insulin levels. Achieving a level equal to 10IU injected by eating is VERY easy. The reason you can go severely hypo from a 10IU shot is because it's not easy to time the meal perfectly. Eat 10 minutes too late and you can crash. A healthy person's body obviously handles the endo release perfectly - the exact right dose is released at the exact right time. A glucometer will not tell you how much insulin you release, only what your BG is.

This is from a post I've saved. Don't have the energy to look up the studies but it's easy enough to verify:

"A carb meal can easily raise insulin levels much higher than injecting insulin. For example, a candy bar with 44 grams of carbs, 3 grams of protein, and 11 grams of fat will raise insulin from a baseline level 5 mU/L to a peak of 42 mU/L in 30 min. It takes 180 min for insulin to return to baseline (1).

Contrast that with an injection of Actrapid Insulin (Novo GmbH, Germany), a humalog type of insulin. 10 IU injected sq into the thigh raises insulin from baseline to 20 mU/L after 90 min, with insulin decreasing to baseline after 300 min. (2)

The areas under the curves (AUC), representing the total bioavailable insulin are similar:

For the candy bar AUC was 3518 mU/L min

For actrapid AUC was 3796 mU/L min"

And:

You can see for yourself how similar an SQ Humalog injection is to a meal or glucose tolerance test. Compare Fig 4 here:

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/17/1/30

To Fig 2 here, in the prescribing info from Lilly for Humalog:

pi.lilly.com/us/humalog-vial-pi.pdf

Note that in the figure 2 in the pdf document the dosage is 0.2 IU per kg of BW. So in a 100 kg (220 lb) bodybuilder that would represent 20 IU of humalog, more than most bodybuilders use in one injection and twice the dosage used in the studies I quoted from above. That is why insulin levels are higher in Fig 2 below than in the studies I cited above.

Your body can and will build a tolerance.  The more slin you use, the less sensative your cells become to it by decreasing the amount of insulin receptors on the cell membrane.  Look it up, im sure you can find some info on it if you do a teeny tiny tad bit of foot work.

Of course sensitivity can go down. Do you really think I don't know that? My issue was with your statement that it stops working very quickly. If it did diabetics would die quickly since you just can't keep increasing the dose day by day.

[TooPowerful4u]

Glucometer doesn't measure insulin levels. Achieving a level equal to 10IU injected by eating is VERY easy. The reason you can go severely hypo from a 10IU shot is because it's not easy to time the meal perfectly. Eat 10 minutes too late and you can crash. A healthy person's body obviously handles the endo release perfectly - the exact right dose is released at the exact right time. A glucometer will not tell you how much insulin you release, only what your BG is.

This is from a post I've saved. Don't have the energy to look up the studies but it's easy enough to verify:

And:

Of course sensitivity can go down. Do you really think I don't know that? My issue was with your statement that it stops working very quickly. If it did diabetics would die quickly since you just can't keep increasing the dose day by day.

Obviously a glucometer cannot read insulin levels, as that is not what i was referring to.  I ASSumed you understood what a glucometer was, and ASSumed that you would understand what i MEANT.  Guess not....You can measure bg levels at multiple points before, during, and after administration in order to guage how effective and quickly it is working in your body.  Now obviously this isnt EXACT, but its as close as the average person is going to get to experimenting with slin and devising a guage to its effectiveness.  Since when does it take humalog (or the type used in your study) take 90min to peak?  Ever use humalog?  Or even read the dang panflet.  Its much much faster. 

Still, your studies interest me.  You are stating pretty much that exo slin is ineffective and unnecessary, as your body can match that output when required, and in a much more efficient manor.  My only question is... if this is so.... why have so many bodybuilders had HUGE success with it?  Iv even personally used ONLY slin for 3 weeks to experiment and all my lifts SHOT up (didnt just go up, SHOT up).  Did gain a tad bit of bodyfat, but also muscle.  Iv WATCHED numerous bodybuilders grow like crazy off proper slin use.  If your body could match this, why is slin so effective?

[The Squadfather]

Obviously a glucometer cannot read insulin levels, as that is not what i was referring to.  I ASSumed you understood what a glucometer was, and ASSumed that you would understand what i MEANT.  Guess not....You can measure bg levels at multiple points before, during, and after administration in order to guage how effective and quickly it is working in your body.  Now obviously this isnt EXACT, but its as close as the average person is going to get to experimenting with slin and devising a guage to its effectiveness.  Since when does it take humalog (or the type used in your study) take 90min to peak?  Ever use humalog?  Or even read the dang panflet.  Its much much faster. 

Still, your studies interest me.  You are stating pretty much that exo slin is ineffective and unnecessary, as your body can match that output when required, and in a much more efficient manor.  My only question is... if this is so.... why have so many bodybuilders had HUGE success with it?  Iv even personally used ONLY slin for 3 weeks to experiment and all my lifts SHOT up (didnt just go up, SHOT up).  Did gain a tad bit of bodyfat, but also muscle.  Iv WATCHED numerous bodybuilders grow like crazy off proper slin use.  If your body could match this, why is slin so effective?

hahahaha, 365 pounds on front squats is "shot up"? hahaha, weak as the day is long.

[TooPowerful4u]

hahahaha, 365 pounds on front squats is "shot up"? hahaha, weak as the day is long.

1.  i was clean in that video
2.  it was half the set, i got 6 reps.
3.  i would demolish you in any bodypart, so shut yo fat mouth 
4.  im a bodybuilder, not a powerlifter. 
5. my physique DEMOLISHES yours.  disagree?.. (im waiting for..."well if i used.. " LOL) sad

[The Squadfather]

1.  i was clean in that video
2.  it was half the set, i got 6 reps.
3.  i would demolish you in any bodypart, so shut yo fat mouth 
4.  im a bodybuilder, not a powerlifter. 
5. my physique DEMOLISHES yours.  disagree?.. (im waiting for..."well if i used.. " LOL) sad

hahahaha, 6 reps with 365!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a beast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Van_Bilderass]

Obviously a glucometer cannot read insulin levels, as that is not what i was referring to.  I ASSumed you understood what a glucometer was, and ASSumed that you would understand what i MEANT.  Guess not....You can measure bg levels at multiple points before, during, and after administration in order to guage how effective and quickly it is working in your body.  Now obviously this isnt EXACT, but its as close as the average person is going to get to experimenting with slin and devising a guage to its effectiveness.  Since when does it take humalog (or the type used in your study) take 90min to peak?  Ever use humalog?  Or even read the dang panflet.  Its much much faster. 

Still, your studies interest me.  You are stating pretty much that exo slin is ineffective and unnecessary, as your body can match that output when required, and in a much more efficient manor.  My only question is... if this is so.... why have so many bodybuilders had HUGE success with it?  Iv even personally used ONLY slin for 3 weeks to experiment and all my lifts SHOT up (didnt just go up, SHOT up).  Did gain a tad bit of bodyfat, but also muscle.  Iv WATCHED numerous bodybuilders grow like crazy off proper slin use.  If your body could match this, why is slin so effective?

That study was with Actrapid, if I'm not mistaken it's the same as Humulin R. Humalog is the only type of insulin I've tried personally.

No, I did not say endogenous insulin release is as effective as a matter of fact. I said in the beginning of the thread that it's a "mystery" of why it works since most don't use hugely supraphysiological dosages, unlike with other hormones used by bodybuilders. I did point to the fact that I didn't find it very effective and that I haven't seen anyone get absolutely crazy results with it. I know many say it's amazing, I just haven't seen it with my own eyes. Not the 30-40lbs lean muscle increases Milos talks about.

If it was so effective for you why did you stop? Why don't you go on an insulin cycle and let us know how much you gained 3 months from now? You "know" how to use it (as you say) so the results should be insane.

[TooPowerful4u]

That study was with Actrapid, if I'm not mistaken it's the same as Humulin R. Humalog is the only type of insulin I've tried personally.

No, I did not say endogenous insulin release is as effective as a matter of fact. I said in the beginning of the thread that it's a "mystery" of why it works since most don't use hugely supraphysiological dosages, unlike with other hormones used by bodybuilders. I did point to the fact that I didn't find it very effective and that I haven't seen anyone get absolutely crazy results with it. I know many say it's amazing, I just haven't seen it with my own eyes. Not the 30-40lbs lean muscle increases Milos talks about.

If it was so effective for you why did you stop? Why don't you go on an insulin cycle and let us know how much you gained 3 months from now? You "know" how to use it (as you say) so the results should be insane.

Because slin also makes you gain bodyfat and fucks up physiques.  I dont like how it makes other bodybuilders look so i very rarely use it.

[the Pure Majestic]

Because slin also makes you gain bodyfat and fucks up physiques. 

You produce insulin with every meal you eat. 
The only reason it makes people gain bodyfat is because idiots think "I'm on slin, gotta eat big to get big!" 

Unfortunately, the idiots in the weight training sports vastly outnumber the informed, rational lot. 

[Camel Jockey]

Because of the planet Nibiru.

[BEAST 8692]

hey dope, that would be CARLA DUNLAP. 


hopes this helps.

shit

harsh but well deserved ownage.

obviously i don't know my women's bbing as well as i thought i did...

but hey, that Carla Dunlap was a great bber, wasn't she?

having said that, i'm sure sarahdunlap is a great pro...

[pellius]

hahahaha, 365 pounds on front squats is "shot up"? hahaha, weak as the day is long.

I am quite sure that I will never be able to front squat 365 lbs for six reps let alone one. I feel like I might as well be in a wheel chair.

[LatsMcGee]

I remember reading an article on the ketogenic diet using insulin... in some anabolic review.  I knew a kid who tried it, got freaky shredded and won his show (amatuer)--  but he did say that he was driving and passed out into a coma crashed his car.  Insulin is kinda foriegn for me...  I had a training partner that used it and said the best kind was the short acting.   I don't know what the high limits are to insulin are in the human body but obviously it can be increased beyond natural capasity (which is why a bodybuilder would use it-duh).  I doubt the claim that insulin alone can get anyone shredded because insulin is for gaining muscle, along with water... seeing that for every carbohydrate you eat you hold 3 molecules of water.  If you break down the systems, your question can be answered...  I've trained will top level pro's that take it very seriously as a part of their regimine. 

but that's all I can really add on this one.

I like girls who think.

[DK II]

Because of the planet Nibiru.

I heard the Planet Nibiru raises INsulin levels much higher than slin.

[pellius]

I heard the Planet Nibiru raises INsulin levels much higher than slin.

That's what I've heard. But how does it increase muscle mass anymore than downing 150 grams of sugar.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

I remember reading an article on the ketogenic diet using insulin... in some anabolic review.  I knew a kid who tried it, got freaky shredded and won his show (amatuer)--  but he did say that he was driving and passed out into a coma crashed his car.  Insulin is kinda foriegn for me...  I had a training partner that used it and said the best kind was the short acting.   I don't know what the high limits are to insulin are in the human body but obviously it can be increased beyond natural capasity (which is why a bodybuilder would use it-duh).  I doubt the claim that insulin alone can get anyone shredded because insulin is for gaining muscle, along with water... seeing that for every carbohydrate you eat you hold 3 molecules of water.  If you break down the systems, your question can be answered...  I've trained will top level pro's that take it very seriously as a part of their regimine. 

but that's all I can really add on this one.

Hey! How is your lesbian "room mate"?

[Camel Jockey]

GH15 is planning on an undergound lab..

The name is a toss up between "Nibiru chemicals" and "Area 51 anabolics"

[DK II]

GH15 is planning on an undergound lab..

The name is a toss up between "Nibiru chemicals" and "Area 51 anabolics"

lol. i guess he already has one...

That's what I've heard. But how does it increase muscle mass anymore than downing 150 grams of sugar.

ask gh15, i'm not to good in alien chemicals, but he is an expert who always talks the truth.

[KillerMonk]

Insulin for newbies= DEATH

[GetBigOrDieTrying]

That study was with Actrapid, if I'm not mistaken it's the same as Humulin R. Humalog is the only type of insulin I've tried personally.

No, I did not say endogenous insulin release is as effective as a matter of fact. I said in the beginning of the thread that it's a "mystery" of why it works since most don't use hugely supraphysiological dosages, unlike with other hormones used by bodybuilders. I did point to the fact that I didn't find it very effective and that I haven't seen anyone get absolutely crazy results with it. I know many say it's amazing, I just haven't seen it with my own eyes. Not the 30-40lbs lean muscle increases Milos talks about.

If it was so effective for you why did you stop? Why don't you go on an insulin cycle and let us know how much you gained 3 months from now? You "know" how to use it (as you say) so the results should be insane.

Van your post's are always good and informative. What ive always wondered is this... It gets to post work out you take your 10iu shot of slin and then down 1g simple carbs per IU slin. Surely ones natural release after 100g simple carbs is huge (even 50g) and then on top of that the exogenous slin. Surely that’s why it works more effectively when you combine slin with a hi gi hi carb meal? You basically getting a double effect of what would naturally occur. Ive tried low dose shots of slin maxing out at 7iu. Pre work out post work ect , as well as multiple times in a day. I find im very sensitive to the effects. I gained the most dramtic weight with 3 times a day shots which also subsequently lead to the worst side effect. I felt like shit , no appetite , and super lethargic. I gained 4 kgs in a week using slin d-bol , test , EQ and 4 iu gh. Was not worth it and by then end of the week I stopped everything due to sides. The best way for me to use it was post work out in the evening. As I could come home , eat and relax. I gained 3kgs over a 4 week period with sust and deca.I was lucky enough to spend time with a pro and he shot 14iu post work out and that was it. Once a day post work out only. Said it made him feel to shit to take it at any other time. He drank a can of coke and ate 1 cup of rice and a large white potato with that. He also kept 1L of fruit juice with him incase… That’s my experience with slin. Id say post work out is the only way Id use it again. This pre work out story is horse shit , I want to enjoy my training not spin out and fall asleep , its to risky and on top of that I go to gym to train because I LOVE TO TRAIN.

[Brutal_1]

You produce insulin with every meal you eat. 
The only reason it makes people gain bodyfat is because idiots think "I'm on slin, gotta eat big to get big!" 

Unfortunately, the idiots in the weight training sports vastly outnumber the informed, rational lot. 

For once I completely agree with you on this 

"toopowerful4u":  365 on the front squat is a very good lift, I'm sure there's only a handful of guys on this board that can do it too 

[Van_Bilderass]

Van your post's are always good and informative. What ive always wondered is this... It gets to post work out you take your 10iu shot of slin and then down 1g simple carbs per IU slin. Surely ones natural release after 100g simple carbs is huge (even 50g) and then on top of that the exogenous slin. Surely that’s why it works more effectively when you combine slin with a hi gi hi carb meal? You basically getting a double effect of what would naturally occur. Ive tried low dose shots of slin maxing out at 7iu. Pre work out post work ect , as well as multiple times in a day. I find im very sensitive to the effects. I gained the most dramtic weight with 3 times a day shots which also subsequently lead to the worst side effect. I felt like shit , no appetite , and super lethargic. I gained 4 kgs in a week using slin d-bol , test , EQ and 4 iu gh. Was not worth it and by then end of the week I stopped everything due to sides. The best way for me to use it was post work out in the evening. As I could come home , eat and relax. I gained 3kgs over a 4 week period with sust and deca.I was lucky enough to spend time with a pro and he shot 14iu post work out and that was it. Once a day post work out only. Said it made him feel to shit to take it at any other time. He drank a can of coke and ate 1 cup of rice and a large white potato with that. He also kept 1L of fruit juice with him incase… That’s my experience with slin. Id say post work out is the only way Id use it again. This pre work out story is horse shit , I want to enjoy my training not spin out and fall asleep , its to risky and on top of that I go to gym to train because I LOVE TO TRAIN.

I speculated that very same thing a few years ago when I was trying to figure out why it worked so well for some. My thought was that you may still get plenty of endogenous insulin release since it's hard to time the carb intake so it coincides perfectly with the insulin shot.

My other thought was that the ones getting a lot out of it weren't used to very high carb intakes without the insulin. Would they have gained similar amount of weight just by upping the carbs/calories?

It's been about 7 years since I last tried it. I think I'll try it again soon to see if it still sucks for me 

[GetBigOrDieTrying]

I speculated that very same thing a few years ago when I was trying to figure out why it worked so well for some. My thought was that you may still get plenty of endogenous insulin release since it's hard to time the carb intake so it coincides perfectly with the insulin shot.

My other thought was that the ones getting a lot out of it weren't used to very high carb intakes without the insulin. Would they have gained similar amount of weight just by upping the carbs/calories?

It's been about 7 years since I last tried it. I think I'll try it again soon to see if it still sucks for me 

I think it may be the compounded effect of your natural release due to the hi carb in take and then the exogenous intake. Then again I know some guys that don’t take in a hi gi carb and use a small amount with all their meals. It also has very anti catabolic properties. If you look at bodybuilder who use a lot of slin they have that swollen look and not very hard , I would speculate that Jay uses a shit load of slin hence his hi carb in take all year round even pre contest. He also looks soft when compare him to a lot of other pro’s. So maybe all that weight gain is also a lot of super saturated muscle mass. Im not saying you can get hard on slin im saying some guys just get the swollen look. I know for myself when I started using it 3 times a day I looked like I wanted to pop and I had to stop as guys started telling me I looked like shit with a blue tint! I think once a day post work out it optimal… You may gain more slowly but I’d say you have more quality in your life , if your in it for the long run that’s the way to go.