Another guy shoot other guys in shopping mall USA OMAHA

[240 is Back]

people don't get killed because there are guns.

people get killed because there is a huge culture of violence here.
people get killed because the laws let too many criminals go.
people get killed because morals aren't taught in schools anymore.
people get killed because the media glorifies murderers.
people get killed because nearly every major role model is a POS.
people get killed because the family unit here is shite.
people get killed because some have nothing to live for and the system fails them.

Violence is high here - not because we have guns - but because we're a bunch of immoral selfish pricks waddling about in a system run by immoral selfish pricks.  Violence is high because we're violent people. 

[240 is Back]

It seems seems likely that it is related to the amount of weapons in circulation.

How can this be addressed, without jeopardizing civil liberties?

I do not see the right to wear a gun as a civil liberty, but I can however see that there would be several problems, as you're implying, if trying to implement new, stricter gun laws.

It's not an easy issue. And believing that changing the gun laws to something like those of Japan, that is not gonna happen.

Still, something probably needs to be done.

The last few shootings indicates this, if nothing else.

The amount of weapons is very nearly a FIXED factor.  I mean, with all the police work in the world, all the rights violations and riots and whever, you're still going to have 50% of them buried in backyards. 

The only VARIABLE factor is the person holding the gun.  Fix the fucked up people.

Teach them right and wrong.  Kick the POS politicians out of office and elect good men and women.  Teach them teamwork, problem solving, and remove the high level of competition and winner takes all attitude.  yes, a drop of socialism.  Welfare and other progams do need to exist to keep the poor form getting desperate and sticking a kitchen knife in the gut of anyone with a wallet.   If you don't want them here, then teach their parents to go to college an use condoms and not to smoke rock and fvck all day and make ten babies. 

The system is creating - and perpetuating - immoral people who do stupid shit, including murder.  Class economics and trained stereotype aid it, and the media glorifies it.  And the PC bullshit means we can't tell kids it's wrong to do something without their insecure litigious father suing you over it.

[tonymctones]

one of the problems is that most of the people commiting the atrocities are not getting their guns legally anyway, they are probably stolen and registered to someone else. So takeing guns away or taxing the legal gun owners is going to do nothing except make the people who would legally buy guns go underground and get them illegally to avoid taxes there by making them criminals in the process...not what we need.
And theres no way that the taxes of the guns should go to those who have been affected by gun violence Im sorry but youd have every gangbangers family standing in line SCREW THAT

[240 is Back]

people don't get killed because there are guns.

people get killed because there is a huge culture of violence here.
people get killed because the laws let too many criminals go.
people get killed because morals aren't taught in schools anymore.
people get killed because the media glorifies murderers.
people get killed because nearly every major role model is a POS.
people get killed because the family unit here is shite.
people get killed because some have nothing to live for and the system fails them.

Violence is high here - not because we have guns - but because we're a bunch of immoral selfish pricks waddling about in a system run by immoral selfish pricks.  Violence is high because we're violent people. 

i was hoping to get some discussion on this one.

[youandme]

people don't get killed because there are guns.

people get killed because there is a huge culture of violence here.

Yeah Bandura, and learned psychologists forgot to travel to Sudan to witness people's heads chopped off, or better yet Turkey where they hang the heads of thieves on their porch. How could we be so blind to the mayhem here in the US 

people get killed because the laws let too many criminals go.

Do the crime, pay the time no need to clog up the system any more, it should focus more on those individuals that WANT rehabilitation.

people get killed because morals aren't taught in schools anymore.

True. Sad we can't say the pledge of alligience our a prayer in school 

We should teach Country moral and values......does anyone even know what day Veterans Day is?

people get killed because the media glorifies murderers.

Media, is a "race to the bottom business"

people get killed because nearly every major role model is a POS.

Luckily more and more people are getting tired of Hollywood, and as soon as people such as Barbara Walters signals their end, then it will be a follow suit for fellow journalist

people get killed because the family unit here is shite.

Family units are weak because of increased industrialization, we can't have dual income earners and a strong family unit....

people get killed because some have nothing to live for and the system fails them.

The system works, but it can't keep giving

Violence is high because we're violent people. 

Violence is a motivation, that is inherent, but mostly it is a evolved emotion of motivation....it can devolve and has greatly

[DK II]

people don't get killed because there are guns.

people get killed because there is a huge culture of violence here.
people get killed because the laws let too many criminals go.
people get killed because morals aren't taught in schools anymore.
people get killed because the media glorifies murderers.
people get killed because nearly every major role model is a POS.
people get killed because the family unit here is shite.
people get killed because some have nothing to live for and the system fails them.

Violence is high here - not because we have guns - but because we're a bunch of immoral selfish pricks waddling about in a system run by immoral selfish pricks.  Violence is high because we're violent people. 

You gave quite a good list there WHY guns shouldn't be so easy to get. May i repeat?

people get killed because there is a huge culture of violence here.
people get killed because the laws let too many criminals go.
people get killed because morals aren't taught in schools anymore.
people get killed because the media glorifies murderers.
people get killed because nearly every major role model is a POS.
people get killed because the family unit here is shite.
people get killed because some have nothing to live for and the system fails them.

If nobody was able to get a gun a good deal of problems would be gone.
Guns may not kill people, but guns make it fucking easy for those with the above problems to decide to go out and shoot someone.


No guns = no shootings.

[Hedgehog]

You gave quite a good list there WHY guns shouldn't be so easy to get. May i repeat?

people get killed because there is a huge culture of violence here.
people get killed because the laws let too many criminals go.
people get killed because morals aren't taught in schools anymore.
people get killed because the media glorifies murderers.
people get killed because nearly every major role model is a POS.
people get killed because the family unit here is shite.
people get killed because some have nothing to live for and the system fails them.

If nobody was able to get a gun a good deal of problems would be gone.
Guns may not kill people, but guns make it fucking easy for those with the above problems to decide to go out and shoot someone.


No guns = no shootings.

Very true.

[kh300]

some of you people are so fucking stupid. how are you going to get rid of the guns? stop living in a fantasy world. i would hide my guns all over the place,they would never find them.

just answer that simple question. how would collect them? not 50% of them.. all 100%

[Hugo Chavez]

some of you people are so fucking stupid. how are you going to get rid of the guns? stop living in a fantasy world. i would hide my guns all over the place,they would never find them.

just answer that simple question. how would collect them? not 50% of them.. all 100%

I want a front row seat, behind a mound of earth, to watch them go around to collect guns in Wyoming, Colorado, Texas etc.  They had blackwater doing it in New Orleans, and that worked out for them, but hahaha... I sence they won't like the reaction they get going door to door when the get out west a bit

[240 is Back]

some of you people are so fucking stupid. how are you going to get rid of the guns? stop living in a fantasy world. i would hide my guns all over the place,they would never find them.

just answer that simple question. how would collect them? not 50% of them.. all 100%

LOL>..... best post i've ever read from you!  You're a cop and you know this.  You know what people would do if they had to give them up. 

[Deicide]

You gave quite a good list there WHY guns shouldn't be so easy to get. May i repeat?

people get killed because there is a huge culture of violence here.
people get killed because the laws let too many criminals go.
people get killed because morals aren't taught in schools anymore.
people get killed because the media glorifies murderers.
people get killed because nearly every major role model is a POS.
people get killed because the family unit here is shite.
people get killed because some have nothing to live for and the system fails them.

If nobody was able to get a gun a good deal of problems would be gone.
Guns may not kill people, but guns make it fucking easy for those with the above problems to decide to go out and shoot someone.


No guns = no shootings.

Einfach gesagt: Amiland ist fuer den Arsch!

[kh300]

Einfach gesagt: Amiland ist fuer den Arsch!

america is for the ass? fuck off

[kh300]

LOL>..... best post i've ever read from you!  You're a cop and you know this.  You know what people would do if they had to give them up. 

and think about this.. no guns in america. now my wifes at home alone, some guy breaks in and he's got a knife. what is she going to do? nothing. shes fucking dead.

now go out to the country, were it can take police 30 minutes to get to. imagine if you were a thug, the'd go crazy knowing they can walk into a place and do whatever they want. 

[240 is Back]

and think about this.. no guns in america. now my wifes at home alone, some guy breaks in and he's got a knife. what is she going to do? nothing. shes fucking dead.

now go out to the country, were it can take police 30 minutes to get to. imagine if you were a thug, the'd go crazy knowing they can walk into a place and do whatever they want. 

lol... i love you man! haha

national police response time is 11 minutes, I think.

how many women could hold off even an unarmed man for 11 minutes, even if she can get to call 911 first?

My thinking is that if they ever baned guns, you'd have so many roving unarmed gangs just taking what they want form people.  A grown man cannot fight 4 guys.  Small groups will start running shit, knowing they're not going to get a belly full of lead.

[tonymctones]

No guns = no shootings.

LOL how naive are you...the only guns your gonna get are from the law abiding citizens that dont want to take the chance in getting caught with a gun...meaning all the criminals who are already breaking the law because they've got their guns illegally in the first place are the only ones with guns...thats just what we need

[24KT]

I'm not anti-gun at all.....I fired my first pistol at age 2 (with a bit of help)

But, all I'm picturing in that scenario is a few middle aged women with gun in their left hand, right hand up covering their face....gun almost upside down, held up high almost over their head, firing randomly in the direction the gunman was in 30 seconds ago. 

Ever see two cars try to merge into the same lane at the same time? 
Two cars traveling 30 miles an hour come within 10 feet of each other and they yank the wheel 90 degrees in the opposite direction as if Zeus himself suddenly erupted from the center of that lane. 

People shit their pants and nearly mow down a home when a squirrel runs in front of their car. 

I don't see people dropping to one knee and taking aim with both hands firmly on their handgun.....

Man that is sexist beyond belief, ...but still made me laugh out loud. 

240, a very plausible and tragic end to your utopian scenario about many armed shopppers, is that one of those armed wouldbe good samaritan shoppers would take out the gunman, ...only to have another armed wouldbe good samaritan rounding the corner, and mistaking good samaritan #1 for the shooter, ...and take him out too, ...and so on & so on etc.,

I say him, 'cause as troponin clearly pointed out, ...women can't hold a gun straight! 

Hey troponin, wanna come over and hold an apple on your head while I play William Tell?
There's nothing to fear, ...I'm just a woman. 

[24KT]

If you're a cop or otherwise trained, yes you would.

But i guarantee no 'normal' human being will be able to shoot straight in such a situation, when you are suddenly under fire in a totally normal environment with lots of other people running around, screaming, bleeding and so on.

First thing is, you will run, as fast as you can, then maybe when you feel safe you will check for your gun, but then it'll be too late for someone else.

I know people in law enforcement (sth. like a SWAT) that had to snipe someone and they say it's not easy, even if you know you have to to save innocents.

A friend of mine use to date a SWAT guy, (I won't say which state they're in) and she used to tell me the stories from their drills and trainings. I can't tell you how many times the SWAT guys ended up killing the hostages, or the innocent bystanders. She'd laugh, if you're ever gonna be in a crisis, pray the SWAT team isn't called to rescue you.

I highly doubt 300 armed shooters could take him out without there being a substantial amount of collateral damage. People panic, even when they see shooters in Police uniforms, I can't imagine the panic that would ensue seeing a civilian discharging a gun in a public place... let alone 300 armed civilians. That's simply a recipe for chaos

[24KT]

people don't get killed because there are guns.

people get killed because there is a huge culture of violence here.
people get killed because the laws let too many criminals go.
people get killed because morals aren't taught in schools anymore.
people get killed because the media glorifies murderers.
people get killed because nearly every major role model is a POS.
people get killed because the family unit here is shite.
people get killed because some have nothing to live for and the system fails them.

Violence is high here - not because we have guns - but because we're a bunch of immoral selfish pricks waddling about in a system run by immoral selfish pricks.  Violence is high because we're violent people. 

I'm glad a patriotic, constitution-loving American said this and not me. 

[Hugo Chavez]

and think about this.. no guns in america. now my wifes at home alone, some guy breaks in and he's got a knife. what is she going to do? nothing. shes fucking dead.

now go out to the country, were it can take police 30 minutes to get to. imagine if you were a thug, the'd go crazy knowing they can walk into a place and do whatever they want. 

yes KH, good posts... gotta give credit when it's due

[Cap]

A friend of mine use to date a SWAT guy, (I won't say which state they're in) and she used to tell me the stories from their drills and trainings. I can't tell you how many times the SWAT guys ended up killing the hostages, or the innocent bystanders. She'd laugh, if you're ever gonna be in a crisis, pray the SWAT team isn't called to rescue you.

I highly doubt 300 armed shooters could take him out without there being a substantial amount of collateral damage. People panic, even when they see shooters in Police uniforms, I can't imagine the panic that would ensue seeing a civilian discharging a gun in a public place... let alone 300 armed civilians. That's simply a recipe for chaos

I hope you are talking  about them "killing" people in drills and not in real life because you would be wrong.  That is why you train, to perfect your skills.  Even trained Spec Ops soldiers have training accidents so your logic is flawed there.  SWAT teams are a great option in  crisis situations and much better than a standard LEO.

It's not a matter of regular joes being able to hit the target, it's just a matter of crossfire or stray rounds.  I think we should have the option to kill the person but I don't think that a regular person or 240 and his eager trigger finger would be the best option or willing to kill them. That being said, better to have that option than not.

[24KT]

some of you people are so fucking stupid. how are you going to get rid of the guns? stop living in a fantasy world. i would hide my guns all over the place,they would never find them.

just answer that simple question. how would collect them? not 50% of them.. all 100%

Holy Cow, ...we actually agree on something! 

I'm gonna go check the temperature outside, ...I think hell may be freezing over. 

[24KT]

I hope you are talking  about them "killing" people in drills and not in real life because you would be wrong.  That is why you train, to perfect your skills.  Even trained Spec Ops soldiers have training accidents so your logic is flawed there.  SWAT teams are a great option in  crisis situations and much better than a standard LEO.

Yes Cap, I'm refering to drills.

I'm sure when it has occasionally happened in real life, LEO's as you call them resort to a 'throw down' to try to cover it up.

It's not a matter of regular joes being able to hit the target, it's just a matter of crossfire or stray rounds.  I think we should have the option to kill the person but I don't think that a regular person or 240 and his eager trigger finger would be the best option or willing to kill them. That being said, better to have that option than not.

Dah! And where do you suppose the "crossfire" & "stray rounds" come from? {lol}
From the shooter not hitting the target ...no? Or are you suggesting that bullets randomly fly out of the chamber? Or are you suggesting they may have magic bullets like Oswald had?

I don't like the idea of 300 armed shoppers either, but I sure as heck wouldn't advocate trying to collect people's guns. I'm sure there are a lot of trigger happy morons out there who shouldn't have guns, ...but I don't think 240 is one of them.

I think the solution to the gun problem in America is education. Your society advocates, and your constitution guarantees the people the right to bear arms, ...but doesn't teach the responsible use of those arms, ...or their original intended purpose from the founding fathers. This is the time, more so than any other time since the signing of the constitution that the right to bear arms in America is a necessity, but I think glorification of the gun and glorification of gun violence needs to stop.

[Cap]

Yes, stray rounds come from the shooter.  They aren't magic bullets.  They also come from other shooters as well (ie citizens).  My point is that in trying to shoot the target, not all bullets hit the intended object.  This happens with Marines in Iraq so this is nothing new, who are trained  . 

[24KT]

Yes, stray rounds come from the shooter.  They aren't magic bullets.  They also come from other shooters as well (ie citizens).  My point is that in trying to shoot the target, not all bullets hit the intended object.  This happens with Marines in Iraq so this is nothing new, who are trained  . 

So aren't we in essence saying the same thing? That 300 armed shoppers is going to lead to alot of collateral damage?

ps: I hear in the new Morgan Freeman / Angelina Jolie movie, ...bullets don't fly in straight lines. 

[Cap]

So aren't we in essence saying the same thing? That 300 armed shoppers is going to lead to alot of collateral damage?

ps: I hear in the new Morgan Freeman / Angelina Jolie movie, ...bullets don't fly in straight lines. 

In a way, yes.  I thought about this when I ran to the store.  My problem was really with a crossfire situation, which is what I addressed with 240.  Ricochets happen but not as much as people misfiring, NDing, or pulling the trigger without intention.  If all 300 people pointed their guns at one guy, there would be no problem.  However we all know that will never happen so no use arguing that.  People ducking when bullets come their way, they turn with finger on the trigger, and hit another person.  It happens but like most here have said, we will never get all the guns but people should be able to defend themselves. 

PS, you are right except we can't manipulate the bullets the way the can.