HOW MUCH DO YOU T-BAR ROW????

[kiwiol]

omgggg youre so hugeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO!

[Tombo]

Appreciate your honesty Tombo - maybe you should ask somebody to check your form.

"i have no reason to lie" 

yeah i have the same back position as barbell rows except i guess sometimes i just get carried away with it all and start jerking the weight w/ my ego.

[omgsoswole]

315 on bent-over barbell rows with a full range of motion and proper form... interesting considering both Arnold and Lee Haney did them the same way.

Both Lee and Arnold only ever worked up to 225 lbs, but I guess they couldn't be a beast like you kiwiol.

315 on bb rows, oh brother...


The Luke
PS-why would I post a pic kiwiol? There's already video of me (and my back) online... and I have a full page picture-article in the Dundrum Gazette this week. I don't hide behind my an internet personality unlike you losers.

How can you know this??

There are a good few exercises where the pros (especially of that day) would be lifting similar or less weight than what you might see in the gym on the average day.  Doesn't mean that they couldn't lift more, just that they chose not to for whatever reason (if this was bb.com i'd start to talk about mind-muscle connection right here).

Judging by Kiwiol's pic i'd totally believe his T-bar and bent over row claim.  In fact if he told me a little more on the T-bar row i'd still believe him.

[Tombo]

Kiwiol is wide.

[omgsoswole]

"i have no reason to lie" 

yeah i have the same back position as barbell rows except i guess sometimes i just get carried away with it all and start jerking the weight w/ my ego.

The best advice that i could give you (although you didnt ask for it) is try to make sure that when you first lift the barbell off the ground to 'assume the rowing position', make sure that you lift with your legs and not your back...my lower back used to hurt until i started doing this.  Worth a try, if you're not doing it already.

[The Luke]

Quoted poundage means nothing until you see how it's performed. Look at Coleman, standing almost straight, kicking with his legs. That's a deadlift/row combo - not just a row. This is not a diss on Coleman, just making a point.

Very good point Van_Bilderass, most trainers can handle 315 for bb rows... but you're a fool if you think you're doing the exercise properly with that weight.

The pro bodybuilders who do (did) their rows properly (Arnold, Lee Haney, Mike Quinn etc) rarely, if ever, go above two plates each side.

To put things in perspective... a 200 lb bodybuilder who could row 315 properly, for reps, would also be able to do pullups till his pelvis hit the bar (for reps). A balanced 200 lb bodybuilder who could row 315 for genuine reps would also be able to bench 400-450 for reps.

Have you EVER seen a bodybuilder at the top of a pullup with his torso parallel to the floor and his lower stomach touching the bar? I mean, other than kiwiol of course.


These ego-trainers just infuriate me... 315 rows with a full range of motion would be equivalent to being able to do pullups for sets of 40. Retards.


The Luke

[Tombo]

sweet fast replies here, although i should be asleep meh..

yeah i try and lift with my legs, but thanks for the advice, my lower back pain is pretty chronic even while i try to keep spinal rigidity through most movements w/ out slouching.

[kiwiol]

How can you know this??

There are a good few exercises where the pros (especially of that day) would be lifting similar or less weight than what you might see in the gym on the average day.  Doesn't mean that they couldn't lift more, just that they chose not to for whatever reason (if this was bb.com i'd start to talk about mind-muscle connection right here).

Judging by Kiwiol's pic i'd totally believe his T-bar and bent over row claim.  In fact if he told me a little more on the T-bar row i'd still believe him.

Cheers mate. Anyone who has seen Dorian row 405 in Blood and Guts, with good form or Ronnie rowing 5 in The Unbelievable will know The Puke is full of shit. Ronnie's form is a bit loose and he swings it up a bit, but you can tell from the way he handles the weight that he can do it just as easily strict

[Van_Bilderass]

Cheers mate. Anyone who has seen Dorian row 405 in Blood and Guts, with good form or Ronnie rowing 5 in The Unbelievable will know The Puke is full of shit. Ronnie's form is a bit loose and he swings it up a bit, but you can tell from the way he handles the weight that he can do it just as easily strict

Nope. He kicks with his legs and simultaneously lowers his torso to meet the bar. Someone link to video of this.

[Tombo]

Very good point Van_Bilderass, most trainers can handle 315 for bb rows... but you're a fool if you think you're doing the exercise properly with that weight.

The pro bodybuilders who do (did) their rows properly (Arnold, Lee Haney, Mike Quinn etc) rarely, if ever, go above two plates each side.

To put things in perspective... a 200 lb bodybuilder who could row 315 properly, for reps, would also be able to do pullups till his pelvis hit the bar (for reps). A balanced 200 lb bodybuilder who could row 315 for genuine reps would also be able to bench 400-450 for reps.

Have you EVER seen a bodybuilder at the top of a pullup with his torso parallel to the floor and his lower stomach touching the bar? I mean, other than kiwiol of course.


These ego-trainers just infuriate me... 315 rows with a full range of motion would be equivalent to being able to do pullups for sets of 40. Retards.


The Luke

Why though? live and let live for christs sake, do they get in your way or is it all psychological?

if a man can row 315 then good on him ..

[omgsoswole]

Very good point Van_Bilderass, most trainers can handle 315 for bb rows... but you're a fool if you think you're doing the exercise properly with that weight.

The pro bodybuilders who do (did) their rows properly (Arnold, Lee Haney, Mike Quinn etc) rarely, if ever, go above two plates each side.

To put things in perspective... a 200 lb bodybuilder who could row 315 properly, for reps, would also be able to do pullups till his pelvis hit the bar (for reps). A balanced 200 lb bodybuilder who could row 315 for genuine reps would also be able to bench 400-450 for reps.

Have you EVER seen a bodybuilder at the top of a pullup with his torso parallel to the floor and his lower stomach touching the bar? I mean, other than kiwiol of course.


These ego-trainers just infuriate me... 315 rows with a full range of motion would be equivalent to being able to do pullups for sets of 40. Retards.


The Luke

Why would someone who can row 315 have to be able to bench 400???  Although i could see that you might expect someone who could row that much to also bench 400, as they would have to be pretty developed to row that weight in the first place, I don't see how a row of 315 MUST equate to a 400 bench (which is what your post suggests).

I've never seen anyone do a pullup with the form that you mentioned...but then again i've never seen anyone try.

[Van_Bilderass]

sweet fast replies here, although i should be asleep meh..

yeah i try and lift with my legs, but thanks for the advice, my lower back pain is pretty chronic even while i try to keep spinal rigidity through most movements w/ out slouching.

I'm guessing you are using a machine t-bar set-up? On a lot of machines you can't pull close to the body, which is what puts the lower back in a poor position. But try to stand as close to the bar as possible and arch you back throughout the movement.

[The Luke]

Some people are asking how I know the old time pros never went above 225 for rows...

Simple. The same way I know they didn't bench 900 for reps... Because it's pretty much impossible.


I can row 315 myself, if I stand up.

At the bottom position of a row you should be able see (in a mirror in front of you) the back of your hips over your shoulder, if you can see your stomach in the same mirror while doing your reps, then your standing up too much.

Anything else is technically a deadlift, with a shrug.



The Luke

[kiwiol]

Nope. He kicks with his legs and simultaneously lowers his torso to meet the bar. Someone link to video of this.

Are you talking about Ronnie? No need to, cause I realize his form wasn't strict. I'm just saying he looks like he could do that weight with good form had it happened. You got to remember he does deadlifts prior to rowing.

And com'on dude - are you saying it's impossible to row 315? I don't do them with my torso parallel to the floor - I have a 60 - 70^o angle with my torso

[kiwiol]

Some people are asking how I know the old time pros never went above 225 for rows...

Simple. The same way I know they didn't bench 900 for reps... Because it's pretty much impossible.


I can row 315 myself, if I stand up.

At the bottom position of a row you should be able see (in a mirror in front of you) the back of your hips over your shoulder, if you can see your stomach in the same mirror while doing your reps, then your standing up too much.

Anything else is technically a deadlift, with a shrug.

The Luke

You can talk all the shit you want, but at the end of the day, Ronnie's back destroys yours. Keep commenting on his form like all the 130 lb 11" arm, 19 year old, zit-faced Personal Trainers do hahahaha

[omgsoswole]

Some people are asking how I know the old time pros never went above 225 for rows...

Simple. The same way I know they didn't bench 900 for reps... Because it's pretty much impossible.


I can row 315 myself, if I stand up.

At the bottom position of a row you should be able see (in a mirror in front of you) the back of your hips over your shoulder, if you can see your stomach in the same mirror while doing your reps, then your standing up too much.

Anything else is technically a deadlift, with a shrug.



The Luke

...in your opinion.  In my experience, only a minority of trainers perform a bent over row with their torso parallel to the floor...so who's to say that the 60/70 degree angle isn't a bent over row?  Unless there is some absoulute authority that i don't know about which decides these things, i'd say that both are rows.

[The Luke]

Why would someone who can row 315 have to be able to bench 400???  Although i could see that you might expect someone who could row that much to also bench 400, as they would have to be pretty developed to row that weight in the first place, I don't see how a row of 315 MUST equate to a 400 bench (which is what your post suggests).

I've never seen anyone do a pullup with the form that you mentioned...but then again i've never seen anyone try.

The order of strength (assuming all exercises are done properly) is:
-deadlift
-squat
-dips
-bench
-rows
-curls
...claiming a 300 lb row is one thing, but simultaneously claiming perfect form is pretty stupid.

The pullup form I mentioned is essentially the exact same movement as a proper row, so anyone claiming to be able to row 315 properly should be able to do pullups to their pelvis line (unless they weigh more than 300).

Van_Bilderass is right... neither Dorian nor Ronnie ever did any bent over rows in their videos, they did a modified deadlift.

Rowing 3 plates is as pointless as doing heavy dumbbell rows and pulling to your chest.


The Luke

[kiwiol]

The order of strength (assuming all exercises are done properly) is:
-deadlift
-squat
-dips
-bench
-rows
-curls
...claiming a 300 lb row is one thing, but simultaneously claiming perfect form is pretty stupid.

The pullup form I mentioned is essentially the exact same movement as a proper row, so anyone claiming to be able to row 315 properly should be able to do pullups to their pelvis line (unless they weigh more than 300).

Van_Bilderass is right... neither Dorian nor Ronnie ever did any bent over rows in their videos, they did a modified deadlift.

Rowing 3 plates is as pointless as doing heavy dumbbell rows and pulling to your chest.


The Luke

Wrong dumbass. Your arms are nearly extended the whole time when you deadlift. But when you do bent over rows with an underhanded grip and pull into your stomach, you have a very good ranged elbow flexion - your arms go from being fully extended at the start of the exercise to bent all the way till your wrist is sitting alongside the top of your stomach.

Pull your elbows back while they are grazing the body - that's the range of motion your arms go through while your torso is around 60 - 70^o to the floor. Just because it wasn't done in the olden days of glory doesn't make it any less effective / legitimate.

[njflex]

I always forget to do corner version ,stick to basic bar bentover and t bar machine,t bar machine i hit 4 plates for 8 or so,bent over 255/275 depends reps 8/10..i have to try the ronnie way.back training is cool,lots of movements and grips.

[omgsoswole]

The order of strength (assuming all exercises are done properly) is:
-deadlift
-squat
-dips
-bench
-rows
-curls
...claiming a 300 lb row is one thing, but simultaneously claiming perfect form is pretty stupid.

The pullup form I mentioned is essentially the exact same movement as a proper row, so anyone claiming to be able to row 315 properly should be able to do pullups to their pelvis line (unless they weigh more than 300).

Van_Bilderass is right... neither Dorian nor Ronnie ever did any bent over rows in their videos, they did a modified deadlift.

Rowing 3 plates is as pointless as doing heavy dumbbell rows and pulling to your chest.


The Luke

Sorry 'The Luke' but talking in absolutes with this kind of subject is ridiculous.  The list that you've put in your post may prove true for the majority of trainers but far from all of them.  e.g. that list doesn't describe my strength, and i'm fairly confident that i perform the exercises 'properly'.

Never tried to chin that way so cant comment on its difficulty.  Judging by your logic lat pull down strength should equate exactly to normal chinning strength also, which isn't the case.

Don't see how rowing 3 plates is pointless unless you're rowing your way.  I'm still pretty confident that Kiwiol will be getting plenty of back stimulation even with the extra angle...possibly better back stimulation (for him) than if he had done the exercise parallel.

[omgsoswole]

I always forget to do corner version ,stick to basic bar bentover and t bar machine,t bar machine i hit 4 plates for 8 or so,bent over 255/275 depends reps 8/10..i have to try the ronnie way.back training is cool,lots of movements and grips.

IMO Ronnie way much better than T-bar machine.

[njflex]

IMO Ronnie way much better than T-bar machine.

i will try..

[kiwiol]

The Puke, here's how I do it, although I lean forward just a tad more than Dorian does - he's probably having his torso sit around 70^o and mine would be closer to 60^o

[The Luke]

Well guys I'm off to the gym,

I'm not a big guy (5'5'' circa 200 lbs and a bit tubby), and I'm a lifetime natural. But I train very hard in an Arthur Jones HIT fashion doing full body workouts and using proper form. So when I hit the gym I do the following:
-Back squat (ass to the ground)  ...315 for 10ish reps
-Deadlift (narrow stance)           ....315 for 10ish reps
-Bench                                    ...225 for 10
-Close grip bench (ez bar)           ...200 for 10ish
-Dips                                       ...bodyweight for 10-15
-Ez bar Rows                            ...200 for 10
-Pullups                                   ...bodyweight for a few reps                     
-Curls                                     ...100ish lbs

I'm certainly not weak (I deadlift 405 for 11 or so when I skip squats) yet 200 lb rows leave my lats so fecked I can't do pullups or curls properly afterwards.

But if you guys row 500 for sets of 10, I'm probably doing something wrong... just like the 50ish inch chest I got from flying with 20 lb dumbbells, must be doing something wrong.


The Luke
PS-I'll paypal $100 to any GetBigger who can row 315 with an arched back and their torso parallel to the ground while pulling the bar to their lower abdomen. Just post a YouTube video (drop the plates individually to prove they're not fake)

[SHUTUPANDTRAIN]

Has anyone done supersets with T-bar and db rows...If not try it...Great Pump...