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Author Topic: Eternal Security according to the Bible  (Read 4720 times)
Butterbean
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« on: December 27, 2007, 01:36:00 PM »



In my reading of the bible I have concluded that once you have accepted Christ as Savior, you can never lose your salvation.

I've met some people that consider themselves Christians that do believe you can lose your salvation. 

What do the Christians here believe? 

Input from non-Christians is welcome also.

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« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2007, 03:20:36 PM »


 where in the Book did you get this?
 
 i would think that if you were once a believer and then denounced Christ then that would cancel your salvation, the bottom line being that you dont believe not that you once believed.
 
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« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2007, 03:39:31 PM »


In my reading of the bible I have concluded that once you have accepted Christ as Savior, you can never lose your salvation.

I've met some people that consider themselves Christians that do believe you can lose your salvation. 

What do the Christians here believe? 

Input from non-Christians is welcome also.

Stella,

Some of the most dishonest  people I've ever met in the business world were very vocal about being born again Christians.  I was always baffled as to how they could be so scummy (I'm talking about major fraud, outright theft, etc.) while at the same time reminding everyone how Christian they were.   My conclusion was that once they got it in their head that they were "saved" they felt that they could do whatever they wanted because they believed that all there "sins" would be forgiven and isn't that basically the "Good News" of christianity.

It seems the only "sin" that God won't forgive is not worshiping God. 
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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2007, 03:42:13 PM »



Some of the most dishonest  people I've ever met in the business world were very vocal about being born again Christians. 

This is commonly accepted in the business I'm in.  The minute some hears the thumping, it's taken a warning.

Too bad isn't it?
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« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2007, 03:49:36 PM »

I have met a lot of very dishonest people in business.  I didn't consider any of them "true believers."  I don't believe true Christians act this way.  A person isn't a Christian because they profess to be.  It's their actions that tell you where their heart is.   

Regarding the "once saved, always saved question," Stella I don't really believe that.  I think salvation is a gift, but that we all have the ability to choose whether or not to accept it.  I think people have the ability to choose to go down the wrong path and never come back.  I do agree that this is very hard to do once you have truly accepted Christ as your Savior, but I do believe it's possible. 
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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2007, 03:49:49 PM »

where in the Book did you get this?
 
 i would think that if you were once a believer and then denounced Christ then that would cancel your salvation, the bottom line being that you dont believe not that you once believed.
 
Denouncing Christ seems pretty strong but the way I see it, even if the person denounces Christ, if they ever truly believed, they are still saved.



John 10:28-29
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; no one will snatch them from my hand.  My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them from my Father’s hand.

John 5:24
I tell you the solemn truth, the one who hears my message and believes the one who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned, but has crossed over from death to life.

Romans 8:38
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor heavenly rulers,  nor things that are present, nor things to come, nor powers,  nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 3:5-7
he saved us not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior.  And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life.”

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Corinthians 1:22
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a down payment.


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« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2007, 03:55:01 PM »

This is commonly accepted in the business I'm in.  The minute some hears the thumping, it's taken a warning.

Too bad isn't it?

I've learned to take that as an early warning sign too
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Butterbean
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« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2007, 03:57:29 PM »

Stella,

Some of the most dishonest  people I've ever met in the business world were very vocal about being born again Christians.  I was always baffled as to how they could be so scummy (I'm talking about major fraud, outright theft, etc.) while at the same time reminding everyone how Christian they were.   

I have met a lot of very dishonest people in business.  I didn't consider any of them "true believers."  I don't believe true Christians act this way.  A person isn't a Christian because they profess to be.  It's their actions that tell you where their heart is.   



I agree w/both of you.  One person I know is extremely vocal about "being a Christian" and also has committed major fraud, forgery, perjury and outright theft (maybe we know the same guy Straw Man) but I also believe he is a Psychopath and is not really a Christian. 



This is commonly accepted in the business I'm in.  The minute some hears the thumping, it's taken a warning.

Too bad isn't it?
Man, this is exactly what we think now.  Coming from Christians who take it as a warning, that's pretty sad!


 
Regarding the "once saved, always saved question," Stella I don't really believe that.  I think salvation is a gift, but that we all have the ability to choose whether or not to accept it.  I think people have the ability to choose to go down the wrong path and never come back.  I do agree that this is very hard to do once you have truly accepted Christ as your Savior, but I do believe it's possible. 

That's interesting Beach.  Thanks for your answer!
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« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2007, 04:04:56 PM »

I have met a lot of very dishonest people in business.  I didn't consider any of them "true believers."  I don't believe true Christians act this way.  A person isn't a Christian because they profess to be.  It's their actions that tell you where their heart is.   



I agree with you there, but it just seems like the more they are vocal about it the more they are crooked on the inside.

There was a time about 20 years ago, when i was in direct sales, that most  pastors we ran credit on had bad credit.   That may seem like an exaggeration, but really, i remember 1 or 2 that had good credit out of at least 50.  It got to a point that we didn't want to sell to Pastors because it was a waste of time.


Oh man, this is exactly what we think now!!  Coming from Christians who take it as a warning, that's pretty sad!




Actions speak louder than words.

That's the only way to know i think.
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« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2007, 04:24:07 PM »

I agree with you there, but it just seems like the more they are vocal about it the more they are crooked on the inside.

There was a time about 20 years ago, when i was in direct sales, that most  pastors we ran credit on had bad credit.   That may seem like an exaggeration, but really, i remember 1 or 2 that had good credit out of at least 50.  It got to a point that we didn't want to sell to Pastors because it was a waste of time.



Actions speak louder than words.

That's the only way to know i think.

I don't want to use the broad brush, but I've been in church my entire life and I have seen, on numerous occasions, extremely vocal and dogmatic people fall away and leave the church.  I'm a little cynical of those who wear their religion on their sleeves accompanied by a judgmental attitude.     
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« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2007, 06:24:38 PM »

I agree w/both of you.  One person I know is extremely vocal about "being a Christian" and also has committed major fraud, forgery, perjury and outright theft (maybe we know the same guy Straw Man!) but I also believe he is a Psychopath and is not really a Christian. 

 even though he may not be a good person he can still be a Christian, phychopath or not. he could have commited every sin in the book, if he believes he will have eternal salvation..thats one of the problems i have with Christianity.
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« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2007, 06:53:58 PM »


In my reading of the bible I have concluded that once you have accepted Christ as Savior, you can never lose your salvation.

I've met some people that consider themselves Christians that do believe you can lose your salvation. 

What do the Christians here believe? 

Input from non-Christians is welcome also.



When you die, you cease to exist and your body rots. We might as well as talk about Dungeons and Dragons if you want to bring this silly stuff up.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2007, 07:07:03 PM »



Some of the most dishonest  people I've ever met in the business world were very vocal about being born again Christians.

Unfortunately that is the case much of the time, but I think that a person's capacity to be dishonest comes from who they are individually.  Who knows?  Maybe those people were only vocal about being born-again because they didn't want to appear dishonest.  I've met people like that before.
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« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2007, 11:21:08 PM »

even though he may not be a good person he can still be a Christian, phychopath or not. he could have commited every sin in the book, if he believes he will have eternal salvation..thats one of the problems i have with Christianity.

That's a good point.  I don't think a person who commits bad acts is necessarily--for lack of a better word--lost.  Everyone makes mistakes.  It's those who willfully, continually engage in unethical, illegal, etc. behavior who are clearly not Christians.   
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« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2007, 11:54:56 PM »

interesting Stella.


there are alot of people who claim to be born again. there are people who accept jesus as their saviour but they just go through the motions and really have no plan on following that path. and their are those who truly want jesus in their lives.

Stella, do you think all these people are forever saved?
what about those who later sin and do not ask forgiveness?

i dont know enough about the bible to strongly say either way but the passages you quoted are interesting. but i think if you accept jesus as your saviour and later sin you will still be saved as long as you ask forgiveness for those sins.
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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2007, 07:29:38 AM »

even though he may not be a good person he can still be a Christian, phychopath or not. he could have commited every sin in the book, if he believes he will have eternal salvation..

I agree with you.

thats one of the problems i have with Christianity.

ATHEIST, why is it a problem?  Because of the way we seem to "abuse" it?


When you die, you cease to exist and your body rots. We might as well as talk about Dungeons and Dragons if you want to bring this silly stuff up.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

We tend to bring stuff like this up here because it is the "Religion Board." Smiley

 
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« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2007, 07:38:55 AM »

interesting Stella.


there are alot of people who claim to be born again. there are people who accept jesus as their saviour but they just go through the motions and really have no plan on following that path. and their are those who truly want jesus in their lives.

Stella, do you think all these people are forever saved?
what about those who later sin and do not ask forgiveness?

i dont know enough about the bible to strongly say either way but the passages you quoted are interesting. but i think if you accept jesus as your saviour and later sin you will still be saved as long as you ask forgiveness for those sins.

I believe that someone who truly at some point in their life accepts Christ as savior is yes, forever saved. 

I believe they are saved even if they don't ask for forgiveness for sins they commit after they accept Christ.  I'm sure I've committed hundreds and probably thousands of sins since accepting Christ as Savior that I haven't asked forgiveness for.  Who could keep up w/all of them? Embarrassed 

God only but thankfully:

EPH 2:8,9
[We] are saved by grace through faith, and not of works, so that no one can boast.
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« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2007, 11:55:19 AM »

That's a good point.  I don't think a person who commits bad acts is necessarily--for lack of a better word--lost.  Everyone makes mistakes.  It's those who willfully, continually engage in unethical, illegal, etc. behavior who are clearly not Christians.   

 you cant say they arent Christians, a sin is a sin according to God. therefore there is no difference if you use His name in vain or kill. the third person on the cross next to Jesus was a lifetime criminal, he spent his life indulging in sins while others where walking in the way of the Lord, five minutes before he past he accepted Christ and he ends up in the same place.
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« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2007, 12:14:36 PM »

I agree with you.

ATHEIST, why is it a problem?  Because of the way we seem to "abuse" it?
 

in a sense yes, I see it as an easy way out with no responsibility, very convenient.
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« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2007, 02:56:39 PM »

you cant say they arent Christians, a sin is a sin according to God. therefore there is no difference if you use His name in vain or kill. the third person on the cross next to Jesus was a lifetime criminal, he spent his life indulging in sins while others where walking in the way of the Lord, five minutes before he past he accepted Christ and he ends up in the same place.

True, I cannot say for certain whether anyone is a Christian.  Only God knows a person's heart.  All I have is an opinion, which may or may not be right.   

Regarding the thief on the cross, he didn't accept Jesus until he was hanging on the cross, so it's probably safe to conclude he was not a "Christian" until that point. 

I agree a sin is a sin, but I haven't bought into the view that God views all sins equally.  Some are just worse than others IMO.  Some have far greater implications and cause far greater damage.  That's not exactly how it's taught in church, and there are many in my church who would flog me for saying this, but that's what I believe.   
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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2007, 03:04:15 PM »

but God does view all sins equally, doesnt it say that in the Bible? the Bible should not be open to interpretation, if peoples salivations are at stake. thats another problem i have is that the Bible can be very vague and susceptible. if it were the Lords word and so greatly important no stone would be left unturned in solidifying that His word be spread w/out any questions
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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2007, 03:17:02 PM »

but God does view all sins equally, doesnt it say that in the Bible? the Bible should not be open to interpretation, if peoples salivations are at stake. thats another problem i have is that the Bible can be very vague and susceptible. if it were the Lords word and so greatly important no stone would be left unturned in solidifying that His word be spread w/out any questions

The Bible does say if you offend in one point, you offend all.  But if you look at how various sins were punished, it tends to show that not all sins are equal.  It's similar to how our laws are set up.  There are ordinance violations, misdemeanors, and felonies.  Violation of any of them is a violation of "the law," but there are different levels of punishment and different implications.  I view sin the same way. 
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« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2007, 05:32:07 PM »

Stella, I guess you are getting at the whole salvation through faith alone vs salvation through faith and works debate. Ah, brings back memories of Catholic school...

As you know, various Christian denominations have found Biblical statements (particularly in the Pauline Epistles) in favor of both.
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« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2007, 06:54:19 PM »

Sins...speaking of sins...  Grin

                                                 
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« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2007, 06:56:54 PM »

Sheeesh... Perhaps the Lord was arrested, tried, and executed on steroids charges? Huh

At least he is keeping the gut in check. My guess is he isn't using slin...
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